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Dutchy013
10-20-2005, 07:59 AM
Guys and girls.
I can use some good advice.
I am planning to get married next year with my girlfriend from Ukraine.
By then we know each other over 3 years.
We never had money issues like gifts, travel expenses, visa, etc.
Spent a number of holidays together, I have visited here 30 times and she came to Holland 3 times.
My teenage daughters like her very much and she likes them.
So far a clear sky.
I love her, but it does not makes me blind for all the things that happened to some guys.
After marriage their bankaccount got cleaned out and their spouse was gone, or the girl just left him after arriving in her new country.
I was told marriage in Ukraine can prevent some of these things?
Any advice to prevent these things happening!!!
Thanks a lot

Sonar
10-20-2005, 12:13 PM
Dutchy,
That is indeed a very difficult question to answer. Since the beginning of time, men have tried to understand why women sometimes think the way they do. It seems that alot of women these days search for the perfect man. The women with more realistic ideas are sometimes very difficult to find.
How does your girl feel about marriage??

A man's mind, streched by a new idea, will never re-gain it's original dimension.

Sonar
10-20-2005, 12:13 PM
Dutchy,
That is indeed a very difficult question to answer. Since the beginning of time, men have tried to understand why women sometimes think the way they do. It seems that alot of women these days search for the perfect man. The women with more realistic ideas are sometimes very difficult to find.
How does your girl feel about marriage??

A man's mind, streched by a new idea, will never re-gain it's original dimension.

Dutchy013
10-20-2005, 01:24 PM
Sonar,
Marriage is not absolute necesarry, living together is good too.
In Holland you can also make up a contract wich has more or less the same legal status as a marriage certificate, you can make up your own rules.
I need to make some sort of legal construction, because of some assets I own and my teenage daughters, who live both with me.
I was told that a marriage in the Ukraine will prevent her to go back to the Ukraine without concent, at least she will be registrered in Ukraine as being married.
I am open for all (good) advice :)

Dutchy013
10-20-2005, 01:24 PM
Sonar,
Marriage is not absolute necesarry, living together is good too.
In Holland you can also make up a contract wich has more or less the same legal status as a marriage certificate, you can make up your own rules.
I need to make some sort of legal construction, because of some assets I own and my teenage daughters, who live both with me.
I was told that a marriage in the Ukraine will prevent her to go back to the Ukraine without concent, at least she will be registrered in Ukraine as being married.
I am open for all (good) advice :)

toymaker
10-20-2005, 05:11 PM
Dutchy

Sorry but there are no real guarantees in this life except we all die in the end. If she has been around you for so long and accepted you in her life and bed, then all seems alright. You two people can go to a lawyer and draw up legal prenuptual agreements that protect you both. You must provide her with 1/2 of all you gain together as "husband and wife" but the materials and so forth you have before the marriage can be protected. Contact a lawyer as it is money well spent.

toymaker
10-20-2005, 05:11 PM
Dutchy

Sorry but there are no real guarantees in this life except we all die in the end. If she has been around you for so long and accepted you in her life and bed, then all seems alright. You two people can go to a lawyer and draw up legal prenuptual agreements that protect you both. You must provide her with 1/2 of all you gain together as "husband and wife" but the materials and so forth you have before the marriage can be protected. Contact a lawyer as it is money well spent.

Dutchy013
10-20-2005, 05:48 PM
Toymaker,
I know about the guarantees of life :D
But maybe someone had some ideas, I just did not think of.
Thanks for your contribution

Dutchy013
10-20-2005, 05:48 PM
Toymaker,
I know about the guarantees of life :D
But maybe someone had some ideas, I just did not think of.
Thanks for your contribution

Sonar
10-21-2005, 12:38 AM
Dutchy,
This may sound a little bit cold, but it is a sure guarantee that you will not make a mistake. If there are ANY doubts>>DON'T DO IT!!!!
Take another year to decide.
As I said in another thread, I was seriously involved with a Russian girl for 4 years. Went to Russia many times to be with her. Brought her here to USA with intentions of marriage. After 4 years I found out things about her that I did not know. Decided that I could not take such a serious risk and ended the relationship.
I am not saying that this is what you should do. I am only saying that if you are not 100% sure, don't take the risk.

A man's mind, streched by a new idea, will never re-gain it's original dimension.

Sonar
10-21-2005, 12:38 AM
Dutchy,
This may sound a little bit cold, but it is a sure guarantee that you will not make a mistake. If there are ANY doubts>>DON'T DO IT!!!!
Take another year to decide.
As I said in another thread, I was seriously involved with a Russian girl for 4 years. Went to Russia many times to be with her. Brought her here to USA with intentions of marriage. After 4 years I found out things about her that I did not know. Decided that I could not take such a serious risk and ended the relationship.
I am not saying that this is what you should do. I am only saying that if you are not 100% sure, don't take the risk.

A man's mind, streched by a new idea, will never re-gain it's original dimension.

Dutchy013
10-21-2005, 09:08 AM
Sonar,
Thanks for the advice.
I gave it a lot of thoughts, especially because of all the horror stories.
I am convident in her,love her very much and she has proven her love for me.
She will sell her apartment and insisted to pay of my morgage with it.
I just did not want to overlook anything.

Does anyone know anything about getting married in the country of origin?

Dutchy013
10-21-2005, 09:08 AM
Sonar,
Thanks for the advice.
I gave it a lot of thoughts, especially because of all the horror stories.
I am convident in her,love her very much and she has proven her love for me.
She will sell her apartment and insisted to pay of my morgage with it.
I just did not want to overlook anything.

Does anyone know anything about getting married in the country of origin?

friendly_aussie_man
10-21-2005, 02:30 PM
I looked into this a while ago..marriage in Ukraine when I once was doing internet mail order bride dating.
You have to live in Ukraine at least 30 days before you can apply to ZAGS ( marriage registry office ) to get married to one of there nationals and then that requires another 30 days notice.
You have to produce "certificate of non-impediment" to marriage and they will not accept a copy of your divorce certificate, you have to contact your Government to arrange "apostilles" ( certification ) on documents and get them translated to Ukrainian.
It is almost impossible for a foreigner to marry a Ukrainian in that country..it is a great deal of hassle, bureacracy and expense to do it and it is not recommneded..some countries may not recognise a marriage solemnised in the Ukraine.
Don't marry in the Ukraine..not recommended.
Get a prenuptial agreement drawn up by a lawyer protecting the assets you own and get her to sign it before she gets married to you..if she does not like, then she does not love you and you can tell her to go and jump in the lake then.
Many Ukrainians are money hungry and go after your money..greed is the motivation..be careful and seek legal advice and get her to sign a prenup agreement before marriage.
I lost a house to a f.cken foreign bride as there was no prenup and they don't stick in Australia because a court can over turn them.

friendly_aussie_man
10-21-2005, 02:30 PM
I looked into this a while ago..marriage in Ukraine when I once was doing internet mail order bride dating.
You have to live in Ukraine at least 30 days before you can apply to ZAGS ( marriage registry office ) to get married to one of there nationals and then that requires another 30 days notice.
You have to produce "certificate of non-impediment" to marriage and they will not accept a copy of your divorce certificate, you have to contact your Government to arrange "apostilles" ( certification ) on documents and get them translated to Ukrainian.
It is almost impossible for a foreigner to marry a Ukrainian in that country..it is a great deal of hassle, bureacracy and expense to do it and it is not recommneded..some countries may not recognise a marriage solemnised in the Ukraine.
Don't marry in the Ukraine..not recommended.
Get a prenuptial agreement drawn up by a lawyer protecting the assets you own and get her to sign it before she gets married to you..if she does not like, then she does not love you and you can tell her to go and jump in the lake then.
Many Ukrainians are money hungry and go after your money..greed is the motivation..be careful and seek legal advice and get her to sign a prenup agreement before marriage.
I lost a house to a f.cken foreign bride as there was no prenup and they don't stick in Australia because a court can over turn them.

friendly_aussie_man
10-21-2005, 02:40 PM
Ask elenag in this forum what she thinks..I think she makes mention on the this topic somewhere.
Elenag is a part Ukrainian woman in the US who runs a detective investigation service (Russian detective) which contracts detectives in the FSU to investigate there foreign girl contact and potential bride for paying clients..she is very credible.
I know to for a foreigner to attempt marriage in the Ukraine is a huge pain in the butt

friendly_aussie_man
10-21-2005, 02:40 PM
Ask elenag in this forum what she thinks..I think she makes mention on the this topic somewhere.
Elenag is a part Ukrainian woman in the US who runs a detective investigation service (Russian detective) which contracts detectives in the FSU to investigate there foreign girl contact and potential bride for paying clients..she is very credible.
I know to for a foreigner to attempt marriage in the Ukraine is a huge pain in the butt

Dutchy013
10-21-2005, 02:46 PM
Down under man,
Thanks for your advice.
In Holland we have quit liberal/social laws.
Living together with a contract is the same as a marriage certificate, with respect to insurances, pension plans, social benefits, etc.
The difference is that you can make up your own contract as long as it is in compliance with the laws.
You can make it as detailed as you want.
It will stick in court without a problem.
We will make up a list of possesions, like life insurances, real estate, bank accounts, etc, each will keep what he/she owned before living together.
Details we have to work out, we probably also keep seperate bank accounts for the time being.
I have discussed this into detail with her and she agrees we should have it all covered by a contract.

I forget the marriage in Ukraine, thanks :D, inded too much hassle.

It has become clear to me.

Thanks all for your contribution!!!!

Dutchy013
10-21-2005, 02:46 PM
Down under man,
Thanks for your advice.
In Holland we have quit liberal/social laws.
Living together with a contract is the same as a marriage certificate, with respect to insurances, pension plans, social benefits, etc.
The difference is that you can make up your own contract as long as it is in compliance with the laws.
You can make it as detailed as you want.
It will stick in court without a problem.
We will make up a list of possesions, like life insurances, real estate, bank accounts, etc, each will keep what he/she owned before living together.
Details we have to work out, we probably also keep seperate bank accounts for the time being.
I have discussed this into detail with her and she agrees we should have it all covered by a contract.

I forget the marriage in Ukraine, thanks :D, inded too much hassle.

It has become clear to me.

Thanks all for your contribution!!!!

nick20045
10-22-2005, 05:23 AM
one thing i noticed......

she will sell her apartment and help with my mortgage

1: do you know how much is an apartment in ukraine?

2: compare this money to a price of property in holland

3: now work out the percentage she is putting in, BUT as she is now contributing to your mortgage she is now entitled to half the property

4: you can live with a person for 12 years and at the end still find new things about that person

5: get her a schengen visa. do not get married. live together. if you can afford to keep her without her working then all the better. at any time she "gets on your nerves", as she has not contributed to your living except for washing a few clothes, doing a bit cooking and spending your money, get her thrown out of the country. you can always amend your will to leave her part of your estate pending certain conditions being met. e.g. if at time of death you are still living together etc etc





to all russian scammers: i am somewhat of a bullshi*ter myself but i do like to listen to a professional. please carry on

nick20045
10-22-2005, 05:23 AM
one thing i noticed......

she will sell her apartment and help with my mortgage

1: do you know how much is an apartment in ukraine?

2: compare this money to a price of property in holland

3: now work out the percentage she is putting in, BUT as she is now contributing to your mortgage she is now entitled to half the property

4: you can live with a person for 12 years and at the end still find new things about that person

5: get her a schengen visa. do not get married. live together. if you can afford to keep her without her working then all the better. at any time she "gets on your nerves", as she has not contributed to your living except for washing a few clothes, doing a bit cooking and spending your money, get her thrown out of the country. you can always amend your will to leave her part of your estate pending certain conditions being met. e.g. if at time of death you are still living together etc etc





to all russian scammers: i am somewhat of a bullshi*ter myself but i do like to listen to a professional. please carry on

Dutchy013
10-22-2005, 07:44 AM
Nick,

1. Yes, I know, about $28000
2. less as 10%
3. No, she is only entitled to the same percentage, e.g. less as 10%
4. You are right, but can happen with a local lady too, I know [B)]
5. She can go working, as a matter of fact we both want this, it will help her integrating in Holland and improve her Dutch language.
Even if she contributes more pro ratio to the living expenses, she will not be entitled to any compensation for this.

I think we will not be married and just live together with a contract.

I think I will tell her to put her money on a savings account and not pay off a part of the mortgage, or to keep on her apartment for a few years.

Like I said, we can include all the above in the contract and we both know excactly till the penny what we are entitled of in case we split up.

Dutchy013
10-22-2005, 07:44 AM
Nick,

1. Yes, I know, about $28000
2. less as 10%
3. No, she is only entitled to the same percentage, e.g. less as 10%
4. You are right, but can happen with a local lady too, I know [B)]
5. She can go working, as a matter of fact we both want this, it will help her integrating in Holland and improve her Dutch language.
Even if she contributes more pro ratio to the living expenses, she will not be entitled to any compensation for this.

I think we will not be married and just live together with a contract.

I think I will tell her to put her money on a savings account and not pay off a part of the mortgage, or to keep on her apartment for a few years.

Like I said, we can include all the above in the contract and we both know excactly till the penny what we are entitled of in case we split up.

Sonar
10-22-2005, 09:56 AM
When I was involved with the Russian woman that I mentioned above, I had my attorney write a preliminary argeement. I had already been burned in a divorce with my American wife of 12 years.
It's funny because the document became quite thick since this attorney knows every angle that can be used to protect a man from a woman in court. The document contained about 60 or more pages of legal bla, bla. After I had it translated into Russian it was even more pages.
When I gave a copy to my girl to read, she got really pissed. Accused me of not trusting her because she is Russian. I explained to her that such a document would be necessary with any woman from anywhere. Then she tells me that I am a very greedy man. I told her to go jump off a bridge and sent her home.

A man's mind, streched by a new idea, will never re-gain it's original dimension.

Sonar
10-22-2005, 09:56 AM
When I was involved with the Russian woman that I mentioned above, I had my attorney write a preliminary argeement. I had already been burned in a divorce with my American wife of 12 years.
It's funny because the document became quite thick since this attorney knows every angle that can be used to protect a man from a woman in court. The document contained about 60 or more pages of legal bla, bla. After I had it translated into Russian it was even more pages.
When I gave a copy to my girl to read, she got really pissed. Accused me of not trusting her because she is Russian. I explained to her that such a document would be necessary with any woman from anywhere. Then she tells me that I am a very greedy man. I told her to go jump off a bridge and sent her home.

A man's mind, streched by a new idea, will never re-gain it's original dimension.

nick20045
10-22-2005, 10:03 AM
quote:Originally posted by Dutchy013

Nick,

1. Yes, I know, about $28000
2. less as 10%
3. No, she is only entitled to the same percentage, e.g. less as 10%
4. You are right, but can happen with a local lady too, I know [B)]
5. She can go working, as a matter of fact we both want this, it will help her integrating in Holland and improve her Dutch language.
Even if she contributes more pro ratio to the living expenses, she will not be entitled to any compensation for this.

I think we will not be married and just live together with a contract.

I think I will tell her to put her money on a savings account and not pay off a part of the mortgage, or to keep on her apartment for a few years.

Like I said, we can include all the above in the contract and we both know excactly till the penny what we are entitled of in case we split up.



although i personally do wish you the very best, following are things which may be important to look at....

re 3: i hope you are right but i have a feeling it works out different. scenario: getting seperated. she wants more. her lawyer sees the US$ sign and thinks can make some good money here. which do you choose?
a: a big massive lawyer/court fee? or
b: give her what she wants (see film kramer vs kramer)

contracts, prenuptuals, agreements etc can be contested in a court. a will can be contested! what about changes in relationship? she can argue that the contract was made at start but after, things changed.

5: i think you are in for a surprise on this one. she is not in the EU and hence she cannot work. if on a schengen visa she is only as a tourist. (i cannot fully speak about holland but i can talk about UK). have you checked if she can work?

when i flew from amsterdam to moscow, they had about 10 police at the airport and every russian was "grilled". 4 were arrested. also on a schengen visa she can stay up to 6 months (i think) and then has to go back and reapply. have you worked out the costs involved? where she will stay until she gets the new visa? etc etc?

re 5 again, i am a bit dubious about the working thing etc etc. i am NOT the jealous type but leaving somebody who maybe just barely speaks english let alone dutch with "strangers"???? remember, it can be a nasty world out there if she meets the wrong people. she knows nothing of your customs etc etc. for example, you are talking about a contract. what if she was to meet somebody who may "draw to her attention that this means "distrust", manipulates her to believe other things" and all this maybe because he fancies her?

remember the old english saying: only fools rush in

so think everything over and over. whichever way it goes (and once again i DO HOPE it works out for you) she will be the winner.

her apartment, why not tell her to rent it out? she can have her parents or relative look after her interest and collect rent etc etc. better then a savings account.

and last but not least.....

"we both know excactly till the penny what we are entitled of in case we split up."

as already said by another member. if in doubt, stay out.


personally, (and this is my humble opinion), i will bring her over as a fiancee. live with her for say 2 or 3 years. (get to know her better. there is a BIG thing writing letters and seeing each other for a week or two every few months to living together). see if there are any faults, how she acts, how she reacts to your kids, how she behaves at seeing new things compared to where she lived.

then and ONLY THEN will i contemplate marraige/living fully together. and, the idea of her being over as a fiancee visa, is so that legally, she is only visiting and hence should have no rights.

what if, for the sake of the argument, you after find she is lazy, prefers take aways and you come back from work to always find you have to wash the dishes and clean the home? yikes! i am 46 years old and have found that compared to the average "nowadays" woman, i have more energy! i can sleep only 5 hours and feel fresh. but have had girlfriends who go to sleep at 22:00 and if wake them up at 09:00 get a mouthful for waking her up early!




to all russian scammers: i am somewhat of a bullshi*ter myself but i do like to listen to a professional. please carry on

nick20045
10-22-2005, 10:03 AM
quote:Originally posted by Dutchy013

Nick,

1. Yes, I know, about $28000
2. less as 10%
3. No, she is only entitled to the same percentage, e.g. less as 10%
4. You are right, but can happen with a local lady too, I know [B)]
5. She can go working, as a matter of fact we both want this, it will help her integrating in Holland and improve her Dutch language.
Even if she contributes more pro ratio to the living expenses, she will not be entitled to any compensation for this.

I think we will not be married and just live together with a contract.

I think I will tell her to put her money on a savings account and not pay off a part of the mortgage, or to keep on her apartment for a few years.

Like I said, we can include all the above in the contract and we both know excactly till the penny what we are entitled of in case we split up.



although i personally do wish you the very best, following are things which may be important to look at....

re 3: i hope you are right but i have a feeling it works out different. scenario: getting seperated. she wants more. her lawyer sees the US$ sign and thinks can make some good money here. which do you choose?
a: a big massive lawyer/court fee? or
b: give her what she wants (see film kramer vs kramer)

contracts, prenuptuals, agreements etc can be contested in a court. a will can be contested! what about changes in relationship? she can argue that the contract was made at start but after, things changed.

5: i think you are in for a surprise on this one. she is not in the EU and hence she cannot work. if on a schengen visa she is only as a tourist. (i cannot fully speak about holland but i can talk about UK). have you checked if she can work?

when i flew from amsterdam to moscow, they had about 10 police at the airport and every russian was "grilled". 4 were arrested. also on a schengen visa she can stay up to 6 months (i think) and then has to go back and reapply. have you worked out the costs involved? where she will stay until she gets the new visa? etc etc?

re 5 again, i am a bit dubious about the working thing etc etc. i am NOT the jealous type but leaving somebody who maybe just barely speaks english let alone dutch with "strangers"???? remember, it can be a nasty world out there if she meets the wrong people. she knows nothing of your customs etc etc. for example, you are talking about a contract. what if she was to meet somebody who may "draw to her attention that this means "distrust", manipulates her to believe other things" and all this maybe because he fancies her?

remember the old english saying: only fools rush in

so think everything over and over. whichever way it goes (and once again i DO HOPE it works out for you) she will be the winner.

her apartment, why not tell her to rent it out? she can have her parents or relative look after her interest and collect rent etc etc. better then a savings account.

and last but not least.....

"we both know excactly till the penny what we are entitled of in case we split up."

as already said by another member. if in doubt, stay out.


personally, (and this is my humble opinion), i will bring her over as a fiancee. live with her for say 2 or 3 years. (get to know her better. there is a BIG thing writing letters and seeing each other for a week or two every few months to living together). see if there are any faults, how she acts, how she reacts to your kids, how she behaves at seeing new things compared to where she lived.

then and ONLY THEN will i contemplate marraige/living fully together. and, the idea of her being over as a fiancee visa, is so that legally, she is only visiting and hence should have no rights.

what if, for the sake of the argument, you after find she is lazy, prefers take aways and you come back from work to always find you have to wash the dishes and clean the home? yikes! i am 46 years old and have found that compared to the average "nowadays" woman, i have more energy! i can sleep only 5 hours and feel fresh. but have had girlfriends who go to sleep at 22:00 and if wake them up at 09:00 get a mouthful for waking her up early!




to all russian scammers: i am somewhat of a bullshi*ter myself but i do like to listen to a professional. please carry on

nick20045
10-22-2005, 10:18 AM
quote:Originally posted by Sonar


When I gave a copy to my girl to read, she got really pissed. Accused me of not trusting her because she is Russian. I explained to her that such a document would be necessary with any woman from anywhere. Then she tells me that I am a very greedy man. I told her to go jump off a bridge and sent her home.

A man's mind, streched by a new idea, will never re-gain it's original dimension.

as i said in another post on another thread, do not assume she always understands what is being said. from russian women i have met, they seem to like nodding when being talked to. to us it means "yes yes yes". to them it seems to mean "i understand a little. but heck what do half the words you said mean"!

and PLEASE last but not least........

never ever underestimate the power of a pissed off woman. prenuptuals or contracts or whatever means nothing to them. once again, i DO HOPE it works out but............ i DO THINK you are going to be in for a few surprises.

she: i will be leaving my home, my friends, my work, my family, my cat, my country, for you. why do you want me to sign this? do you not trust me? is this how we intend to live our life? without trust?

you want me to cook for you. to wash your clothes for you, keep a nice house, go to work, earn money for you........

her brain cells are really saying: darn. nice house. better country. he has lots of money, great roads and no hills anywhere :D:D:D (sorry dutchy but been to holland. the only "hills" i saw where flyovers. :D), most probably i will have to do work in the house, he expects me to go to work. be frustrated because i cannot understand half of what is being said to me, then frustrated because i do not know how to get back home as i do not understand the bus service, then expects me to be a housewife, be nice to his children, friends etc etc and if it does not work, walk out with sweet nothing! NO WAY! if he wants me to drop my thongs, open my legs for him and fake orgasms he had better remove that piece of junk away from my face as i am not signing nothing.



to all russian scammers: i am somewhat of a bullshi*ter myself but i do like to listen to a professional. please carry on

nick20045
10-22-2005, 10:18 AM
quote:Originally posted by Sonar


When I gave a copy to my girl to read, she got really pissed. Accused me of not trusting her because she is Russian. I explained to her that such a document would be necessary with any woman from anywhere. Then she tells me that I am a very greedy man. I told her to go jump off a bridge and sent her home.

A man's mind, streched by a new idea, will never re-gain it's original dimension.

as i said in another post on another thread, do not assume she always understands what is being said. from russian women i have met, they seem to like nodding when being talked to. to us it means "yes yes yes". to them it seems to mean "i understand a little. but heck what do half the words you said mean"!

and PLEASE last but not least........

never ever underestimate the power of a pissed off woman. prenuptuals or contracts or whatever means nothing to them. once again, i DO HOPE it works out but............ i DO THINK you are going to be in for a few surprises.

she: i will be leaving my home, my friends, my work, my family, my cat, my country, for you. why do you want me to sign this? do you not trust me? is this how we intend to live our life? without trust?

you want me to cook for you. to wash your clothes for you, keep a nice house, go to work, earn money for you........

her brain cells are really saying: darn. nice house. better country. he has lots of money, great roads and no hills anywhere :D:D:D (sorry dutchy but been to holland. the only "hills" i saw where flyovers. :D), most probably i will have to do work in the house, he expects me to go to work. be frustrated because i cannot understand half of what is being said to me, then frustrated because i do not know how to get back home as i do not understand the bus service, then expects me to be a housewife, be nice to his children, friends etc etc and if it does not work, walk out with sweet nothing! NO WAY! if he wants me to drop my thongs, open my legs for him and fake orgasms he had better remove that piece of junk away from my face as i am not signing nothing.



to all russian scammers: i am somewhat of a bullshi*ter myself but i do like to listen to a professional. please carry on

Dutchy013
10-22-2005, 10:31 AM
Guys,

First of all, thanks for all your usefull input and thoughts.
I really appreciate it.

Nick.
3. I m sure, I had such arrangement with a previous (Dutch) girlfriend.
You can even take up in the contract that it cannot be challenged before the court and in case of a disagreement the lawyer who made up the contract makes a final verdicts, which also cannot be challenged before court.
This all to prevent massive lawyer bills and endless dragging cases going from court to court.
Without a contract, when splitting up, she can take me to court and try to get what ever she wants!!

5. Yes, this week she got the stamp in her passport for perminent resident of Holland for the next 2 years, including a work permit during this time. This will be renewed if she has passed the Dutch language course, which is organised by the government and is mandatory to follow and to pass the examinations. The costs for this stamp and all the paperwork? Little less as 1000 euro!!!!
First she has to take the language course, 4 full days a week till she passes the examinations of it, she already speaks French, Italian and Arabic, so I guess Dutch should be not a real problem.
By the end of the course she should be able to speak, understand and write Dutch at a high school level. After this she can start looking for a job.

I know all east eurpean woman are checked into detail at Schiphol :)

I will take all your good advice into consideration.

Dutchy013
10-22-2005, 10:31 AM
Guys,

First of all, thanks for all your usefull input and thoughts.
I really appreciate it.

Nick.
3. I m sure, I had such arrangement with a previous (Dutch) girlfriend.
You can even take up in the contract that it cannot be challenged before the court and in case of a disagreement the lawyer who made up the contract makes a final verdicts, which also cannot be challenged before court.
This all to prevent massive lawyer bills and endless dragging cases going from court to court.
Without a contract, when splitting up, she can take me to court and try to get what ever she wants!!

5. Yes, this week she got the stamp in her passport for perminent resident of Holland for the next 2 years, including a work permit during this time. This will be renewed if she has passed the Dutch language course, which is organised by the government and is mandatory to follow and to pass the examinations. The costs for this stamp and all the paperwork? Little less as 1000 euro!!!!
First she has to take the language course, 4 full days a week till she passes the examinations of it, she already speaks French, Italian and Arabic, so I guess Dutch should be not a real problem.
By the end of the course she should be able to speak, understand and write Dutch at a high school level. After this she can start looking for a job.

I know all east eurpean woman are checked into detail at Schiphol :)

I will take all your good advice into consideration.

Dutchy013
10-22-2005, 10:37 AM
Nick,
We always have been lazy bastards, cycling up those hills, so we got rid of them. :D
I know all about woman, had a marriage (only 3 years of alimony payments left :)) and living together with a Dutch woman for a number of years.
Nomatter the nationality, they can always surprise you.
But women may feel the same about us too :D

Dutchy013
10-22-2005, 10:37 AM
Nick,
We always have been lazy bastards, cycling up those hills, so we got rid of them. :D
I know all about woman, had a marriage (only 3 years of alimony payments left :)) and living together with a Dutch woman for a number of years.
Nomatter the nationality, they can always surprise you.
But women may feel the same about us too :D

nick20045
10-22-2005, 10:40 AM
quote:Originally posted by Dutchy013

First she has to take the language course, 4 full days a week till she passes the examinations of it, she already speaks French, Italian and Arabic, so I guess Dutch should be not a real problem.

so i guess we can all take it that she does not speak english? :D:D:D:D

sorry but i am in a cheeky mood today. ;)



to all russian scammers: i am somewhat of a bullshi*ter myself but i do like to listen to a professional. please carry on

nick20045
10-22-2005, 10:40 AM
quote:Originally posted by Dutchy013

First she has to take the language course, 4 full days a week till she passes the examinations of it, she already speaks French, Italian and Arabic, so I guess Dutch should be not a real problem.

so i guess we can all take it that she does not speak english? :D:D:D:D

sorry but i am in a cheeky mood today. ;)



to all russian scammers: i am somewhat of a bullshi*ter myself but i do like to listen to a professional. please carry on

nick20045
10-22-2005, 10:45 AM
quote:Originally posted by Dutchy013

Nick,
We always have been lazy bastards, cycling up those hills, so we got rid of them. :D
i was told that no hills for:
a: cruise control when driving
b: can sleep whilst driving
c: keep the sedement in beer kegs in the bottom so beer can taste good at all times



quote:Originally posted by Dutchy013

I know all about woman, had a marriage (only 3 years of alimony payments left :)) and living together with a Dutch woman for a number of years.

the last person who said he knows "all about women" got locked up and is now in a straight jacket. i think he was classed as a looney. Dutchy...... nobody knows ANYTHING about women. even themselves!!! ask her, when she throws a tantrum what she means and most probably the answer will be.........

I DONT KNOW



quote:Originally posted by Dutchy013

Nomatter the nationality, they can always surprise you.
But women may feel the same about us too :D


oh believe me. i am always getting surprised by women. no wonder i am a nervous wreck. :D:D:D



to all russian scammers: i am somewhat of a bullshi*ter myself but i do like to listen to a professional. please carry on

nick20045
10-22-2005, 10:45 AM
quote:Originally posted by Dutchy013

Nick,
We always have been lazy bastards, cycling up those hills, so we got rid of them. :D
i was told that no hills for:
a: cruise control when driving
b: can sleep whilst driving
c: keep the sedement in beer kegs in the bottom so beer can taste good at all times



quote:Originally posted by Dutchy013

I know all about woman, had a marriage (only 3 years of alimony payments left :)) and living together with a Dutch woman for a number of years.

the last person who said he knows "all about women" got locked up and is now in a straight jacket. i think he was classed as a looney. Dutchy...... nobody knows ANYTHING about women. even themselves!!! ask her, when she throws a tantrum what she means and most probably the answer will be.........

I DONT KNOW



quote:Originally posted by Dutchy013

Nomatter the nationality, they can always surprise you.
But women may feel the same about us too :D


oh believe me. i am always getting surprised by women. no wonder i am a nervous wreck. :D:D:D



to all russian scammers: i am somewhat of a bullshi*ter myself but i do like to listen to a professional. please carry on

Dutchy013
10-22-2005, 11:03 AM
Right you are Nick!
We both do not speak English :D
It is a great way to prevent arguements :D

I guess you were that drunk Englishman, wondering around Amsterdam, looking for that last pub open and a "smoke" ;)

Anyway, thanks for your input.
I think we can close this topic, unless someone (Elena) has something to add?

Dutchy013
10-22-2005, 11:03 AM
Right you are Nick!
We both do not speak English :D
It is a great way to prevent arguements :D

I guess you were that drunk Englishman, wondering around Amsterdam, looking for that last pub open and a "smoke" ;)

Anyway, thanks for your input.
I think we can close this topic, unless someone (Elena) has something to add?

scam magnet
10-23-2005, 07:10 AM
A attorney once said to me " A prenuptual agreement was nothing but a recipe for divorce" ???

scam magnet
10-23-2005, 07:10 AM
A attorney once said to me " A prenuptual agreement was nothing but a recipe for divorce" ???

Dutchy013
10-23-2005, 07:38 AM
Scam Magnet
You may be right about this, but it is depending on the national laws you have to deal with to make a kind of settlement.
It is to protect the interest of both partners in case of splitting up, but also the interest of our children in case one of us dies.

Dutchy013
10-23-2005, 07:38 AM
Scam Magnet
You may be right about this, but it is depending on the national laws you have to deal with to make a kind of settlement.
It is to protect the interest of both partners in case of splitting up, but also the interest of our children in case one of us dies.

nick20045
10-23-2005, 07:44 AM
quote:Originally posted by Dutchy013

Scam Magnet
You may be right about this, but it is depending on the national laws you have to deal with to make a kind of settlement.
It is to protect the interest of both partners in case of splitting up, but also the interest of our children in case one of us dies.


marraige is based on trust. if you do not have trust it will fail. a prenuptual states in bold lettes "i do not trust you and i want to take precautions". if you try to tell her about the latter part of what you said, the answer is very simple. it is called a "will".



to all russian scammers: i am somewhat of a bullshi*ter myself but i do like to listen to a professional. please carry on

nick20045
10-23-2005, 07:44 AM
quote:Originally posted by Dutchy013

Scam Magnet
You may be right about this, but it is depending on the national laws you have to deal with to make a kind of settlement.
It is to protect the interest of both partners in case of splitting up, but also the interest of our children in case one of us dies.


marraige is based on trust. if you do not have trust it will fail. a prenuptual states in bold lettes "i do not trust you and i want to take precautions". if you try to tell her about the latter part of what you said, the answer is very simple. it is called a "will".



to all russian scammers: i am somewhat of a bullshi*ter myself but i do like to listen to a professional. please carry on

Dutchy013
10-23-2005, 07:59 AM
Guys,
I have discussed this already into detail with her.
She understands the need to have some kind of contract and we discussed the broad content of it and we agreed on this.
I asked her several times about it, to make sure she understood why we do this.
Nick, you are right about trust, but I can assure you, we trust each other for 100%, but being burned once and lose the result of 15 years of hard labour :D, is for me a once in a lifetime effent.

Dutchy013
10-23-2005, 07:59 AM
Guys,
I have discussed this already into detail with her.
She understands the need to have some kind of contract and we discussed the broad content of it and we agreed on this.
I asked her several times about it, to make sure she understood why we do this.
Nick, you are right about trust, but I can assure you, we trust each other for 100%, but being burned once and lose the result of 15 years of hard labour :D, is for me a once in a lifetime effent.

nick20045
10-23-2005, 08:09 AM
Dutchy.....

why not go to a lawyer and draft up a transfer of equity? basically, if you trust your daughters 100% you can do a document.

in it, you transfer (in trust) your home to their name, your equity, movable and non movable property, money and all that you have.

basically, it will be as if you own nothing.

in the document you make a proviso that:

1: until your death you are the administrator and trustee of all the above (it means they cannot sell or dissolute anything until you die)

2: you will receive a certain sum of money every week/month/year from the trust for administrative purposes (it means you have access to the bank account to draw whatever you want)

3: you are enpowered to take any action deemed fit to look after the trust (it means that if you want to sell the home and buy another, or do anything you can do so. you can make building renovations etc etc)

4: upon death of the trustee, a certain percentage of the trust is accepted by the named people in the trust that it will transferred to "XYZ" (being whatever her name) as per any last and remaining will.

basically, if anything happens and the marraige fails she cannot touch anything as it all belongs to your daughters.

a good lawyer will guide you. you keep your mouth shut about the trust. if the marraige fails and she tries to take you to court, she will get a nice shock as you basically own nothing.

i did one when i was getting divorced. transferred my share of the home to my kids. the lawyer told me she was going to go after my share. she got nothing as i own nothing.



to all russian scammers: i am somewhat of a bullshi*ter myself but i do like to listen to a professional. please carry on

nick20045
10-23-2005, 08:09 AM
Dutchy.....

why not go to a lawyer and draft up a transfer of equity? basically, if you trust your daughters 100% you can do a document.

in it, you transfer (in trust) your home to their name, your equity, movable and non movable property, money and all that you have.

basically, it will be as if you own nothing.

in the document you make a proviso that:

1: until your death you are the administrator and trustee of all the above (it means they cannot sell or dissolute anything until you die)

2: you will receive a certain sum of money every week/month/year from the trust for administrative purposes (it means you have access to the bank account to draw whatever you want)

3: you are enpowered to take any action deemed fit to look after the trust (it means that if you want to sell the home and buy another, or do anything you can do so. you can make building renovations etc etc)

4: upon death of the trustee, a certain percentage of the trust is accepted by the named people in the trust that it will transferred to "XYZ" (being whatever her name) as per any last and remaining will.

basically, if anything happens and the marraige fails she cannot touch anything as it all belongs to your daughters.

a good lawyer will guide you. you keep your mouth shut about the trust. if the marraige fails and she tries to take you to court, she will get a nice shock as you basically own nothing.

i did one when i was getting divorced. transferred my share of the home to my kids. the lawyer told me she was going to go after my share. she got nothing as i own nothing.



to all russian scammers: i am somewhat of a bullshi*ter myself but i do like to listen to a professional. please carry on

Dutchy013
10-23-2005, 08:14 AM
Nick,
Thanks, I never thought about this.
I will look into this!
My girls are still very young (12&15)

Dutchy013
10-23-2005, 08:14 AM
Nick,
Thanks, I never thought about this.
I will look into this!
My girls are still very young (12&15)

nick20045
10-23-2005, 08:15 AM
quote:Originally posted by Dutchy013


Nick, you are right about trust, but I can assure you, we trust each other for 100%, but being burned once and lose the result of 15 years of hard labour :D, is for me a once in a lifetime effent.

read what you just wrote. sit down. analyse it.

we trust each other 100%

BUT

ning burned and lose the result of 15 years....... is for me a once in a lifetime effent

sorry. but that is not 100% trust.

that word BUT is a small word but means very BIG things.



to all russian scammers: i am somewhat of a bullshi*ter myself but i do like to listen to a professional. please carry on

nick20045
10-23-2005, 08:15 AM
quote:Originally posted by Dutchy013


Nick, you are right about trust, but I can assure you, we trust each other for 100%, but being burned once and lose the result of 15 years of hard labour :D, is for me a once in a lifetime effent.

read what you just wrote. sit down. analyse it.

we trust each other 100%

BUT

ning burned and lose the result of 15 years....... is for me a once in a lifetime effent

sorry. but that is not 100% trust.

that word BUT is a small word but means very BIG things.



to all russian scammers: i am somewhat of a bullshi*ter myself but i do like to listen to a professional. please carry on

nick20045
10-23-2005, 08:16 AM
quote:Originally posted by Dutchy013

Nick,
Thanks, I never thought about this.
I will look into this!
My girls are still very young (12&15)

if your girls are still 12 and 15 all the better as it gives you an excuse why to be administrator ;););)



to all russian scammers: i am somewhat of a bullshi*ter myself but i do like to listen to a professional. please carry on

nick20045
10-23-2005, 08:16 AM
quote:Originally posted by Dutchy013

Nick,
Thanks, I never thought about this.
I will look into this!
My girls are still very young (12&15)

if your girls are still 12 and 15 all the better as it gives you an excuse why to be administrator ;););)



to all russian scammers: i am somewhat of a bullshi*ter myself but i do like to listen to a professional. please carry on

Dutchy013
10-23-2005, 08:32 AM
Nick,
I think I did not express myself correctly.
We all know that relations can end, despite all the love at the beginning.
If this happens to us, I want us to end it in a correct way, so that we both get what we are entitled of.
Not only for me, but also for my girlfriend, she has her life well organised at the moment, own apartment, own car, nice family and friends and a great job.
Maybe this sounds cold harted, but I do not feel about her this way at all.
I have been a romantic fool in the past and paid dearly for it.
Besides, I have also responsibilities to my kids and collge/university costs are enourmous :)

Dutchy013
10-23-2005, 08:32 AM
Nick,
I think I did not express myself correctly.
We all know that relations can end, despite all the love at the beginning.
If this happens to us, I want us to end it in a correct way, so that we both get what we are entitled of.
Not only for me, but also for my girlfriend, she has her life well organised at the moment, own apartment, own car, nice family and friends and a great job.
Maybe this sounds cold harted, but I do not feel about her this way at all.
I have been a romantic fool in the past and paid dearly for it.
Besides, I have also responsibilities to my kids and collge/university costs are enourmous :)