PDA

View Full Version : Russians vs North Americans



Detective
11-30-2005, 09:59 PM
Americans expect things to go well and become upset when they don't. Russians expect things to go poorly and have learned to live with misfortune. The American habit of smiling all the time can get on the nerves of some Russians.
The assumption that "everyone steals" has erased the nation's sense of right and wrong. Many involved in bribery and embezzlement see it as the only way to survive. They feel justified since, "everyone else is doing it." The police are notorious for corrupt behaviour. While Americans generally trust "the law," Russians have a tremendous distrust of government, police and the military.
Soviet citizens were sentenced for counterrevolution activity or crimes against the state from 1930 to 1953. The KGB openly admits that 786,000 were shot to death in those 23 years.
The law in Russia has served to protect the state and the community rather than the individual. The leaders had the tradition of being above the law (Definition of a third world country).
Students in russia are told what the answer is, not why the answer is what it is. "How did you come to that answer?" is not a question a Russian teacher would ask. It is simply right or wrong. Two plus two is four. The reason why is immaterial.
Time is money to Americans, and punctuality a virtue. Meetings are expected to start on time, and work under pressure of the clock is a challenge routinely accepted. To Russians, with their agricultural heritage, time is like the seasons - a time for sowing and a time for reaping, and a time for doing little in between.
Russians disrespect Americans as people but generally bear no ill will toward them.
Things seldom go as planned with Russians. They often say, "In principle, it can be done," but in practice, it may be another matter.

ham
11-30-2005, 11:08 PM
In my opinion things are not so simple.
I consider MOB scamming the big time version of spam.
Spam is typically a western product.
What is that?
Mostly redundant, fancy, enticing ads about how to turn $100 into $100000 using some "secret forex trading scheme"; how to "enlarge your pen!s"; about how "this couple saved $40000 refinancing the third time this year", etc.
What's more ridiculous than this?
Hell, get into debt upto your eyeballs, then "save" entering other debt schemes to pay the first back...and SAVE?!

As well, the sick originators & first perpetrators of the best selling scam lies are... WESTERN AGENCIES.
Then of course you've thousands of Igor, Boris, Pavel and Irina joining the fun.
Just days ago i could read on a big junk network agency's website flat lies like:
If you only make $800 a month and own a dishwasher you can make any FSU princess happy because they have no tap water, live in cartonbox buildings and their average salary is $20 a month

You can have a penthouse pet even if you're 70 & wearing diapers. FSU women love older men and consider huge age gaps an insurance against drinking & bad habits, which cause depopulation among FSU men, mostly jobless, violent drunkards

Etc.

Now i don't need to be a genius to guess why so many independent scammers write canned letters about just that...who did teach them the rhymes?
Equally, i don't need to be a genius to know the whole pink glasses picture is your next "herbal viagra" or "secret forex trading scheme".

Sure, they've learnt the worst from the west, but it is because it pays good dividends.
In my opinion the whole MOB thing is declining.
Divorces start to increasingly make it to the news; bickering about agencies not keeping their promises abounds; court cases start to appear; more&more men who got scammed voice their opinion, thus preventing many more men from falling victims...while years ago nobody was talking about scams.

Sure, you'll always have a sucker falling for the next "secret forex scheme" or "herbal viagra"...such is life.
Sending no money and having a realistic approach to oneself is the secret.

Sonar
12-01-2005, 12:17 PM
As an American who has traveled to Russia and Ukraine 20 times since 1999 I can say this. I have experienced some of the most ass backward ways of thinking immaginable. Many things that should be normal and simple by western standards, become difficult and complicated because of the mentality.
Russians can be some of the most hard-headed people to deal with. Even the Russians that I know here in America are like this. When they make up their mind's about something, whether right or wrong, there is no changing it.
There is a story that an American/Russian friend of mine tells about a shoe factory in the 1970's somewhere in western Russia. Of course, during those socialistic times, the state provided all of the necessities of life. Food, clothing, medicine, housing, etc.
The shoe factory produced thousands of pairs of shoes everyday that were distributed to the general population throughout western Russia.
One day at the factory, the machine that produced left shoes for men became broken. Since the parts that were needed to repair the machine were not available, the factory continued to distribute men's shoes but with two right shoes. They doubled the production of right shoes.
It was several weeks before the machine was repaired and many thousands of pairs of men's shoes had been distributed with two right shoes. No one seemed to care and soon there were alot on men wearing right shoes on their left foot. Somehow, all of these defective pairs of shoes eventually ended up in a couple of areas in western Russia and after awhile all of the men for about two years wore right shoes on their left foot.
It became normal and accepted and nobody cared. There are many other stories similar to this where the Russian people would just accept anything that the state considered normal.
And they think that Americans are dumb???
HaHa, give me a break!!!!

A man's mind, streched by a new idea, will never re-gain it's original dimension.

Detective
12-01-2005, 12:59 PM
THAT IS REALLY WONDERFUL....:D:D:D,
It's true, they think that the Americans are dumb... Jeeeezzzzzz, gimme a friggen break:D.
Sonar, it seems you have a lot of experience with the slavic people. The absolutely true story that you said is 100% right... I haven't heard it before but I know they're stubborn....
Although I am not originally North American, I think that it is a real mistake to compare the Americans to the russians... it is just unfair for the americans to go backwards this much..
As everybody mentions here on this forum, North America has also issues but these issues are on an individual basis...

Dutchy013
12-01-2005, 02:10 PM
For a couple of years I am doing business in East Europe.
In West Europe buying products and obtaining samples is no problem, manufacturers are happy to get in contact with a potential customer.
Your attention is more focused on marketing and sales.
In East Europe it works different, companies are hardly interested because they produce for local markets and export goes to other East European countries.
Free samples, forget it!!
Customer satisfaction? Never heard of it!!

babe_in_rusland
12-01-2005, 05:12 PM
Most of what the first poster says fall in the class of what is termed "sweeping generalizations." I know of many hard-working, commonsense driven Russians both in the US and in Russia. They understand the constraints of working within their absurd, Kafkaesque bureaucracy and yet remain personally optimistic and generally happy.

The story about two right shoes sounds a bit like urban legend. In fact, if you google the phrase, "two right shoes" you find this story is repeated in many other countries, including the US.

ham
12-01-2005, 05:47 PM
well, government looks alike [u]everywhere</u>.
In america the recent fact of Louisiana shows that there are three pairs of right shoes...one fatly paid bureaucrat was sending emails about his clothes & other idiocies, while the "chief of the free world" was busy having a beer i guess. Nobody cared enough & they were in trouble. We had a similar case years ago here. The flooding destroyed a region nearby here...nobody did anything...in the end -that is a joke- a minister from a so-called "secessionist/racist" party hired a five star hotel as "headquarters" for big fatly paid "wog" bureaucrats.
Thank god he was a "racist"...otherwise what, Trump Plaza?
Did people get rescued in time?
Did they get repaid?
No way.
And here we had "government" &civil codes when in Britain or in america you had only natives picking berries.
Results are equally third-worldish.
I read the indian government actually spends 30 or 40$ to deliver $10 in welfare to a citizen.
First the japanese, then korea; now even Malaysia & Pakistan are ripping our a$$ in shreds with superior products at 1/10 the cost...
The west is the other half of the Berlin wall charade yet to fall.

Dag
12-07-2005, 02:42 AM
What happenned in the aftermath of the hurricane in New Orleans, Louisianna has nothing to do with racism as many negro racists would have you believe. I, myself, have had my house flooded during hurricanes and yet did not have a helicopter land on my roof to rescue me. These once poor lazy slob crack heads, who have lived on government money for the majority of their lives, will soon have free new homes provided by tax payer money. I lost everything, including my house, due to terrorism on 9-11, I did not get government assistance. The best thing that could have happenned was dropping a nerve agent inside the super bowl arena while the pigs were crapping and pissing all over it.

Dag
12-07-2005, 02:53 AM
as for Russia vs N America : if you're white, to get to N America, you have to do it legally, unlike the mexicans, so. Americans, asians, caribes and afroaustrapithicuses. y'all have a happy Kwanza now. SS

wxman2003
12-07-2005, 06:48 AM
The problem with New Orleans had nothing to do with racism. It's the lack of one taking care of their family and themselves. These people chose to stay even though they were warned 3 to 4 days ahead of time to leave. So when they don't leave and the storm hits, they expect immediate salvation by the government. The US is becoming like the socialist countries of Europe where people can not survive on their own anymore and expect the government to give them everything they want. What makes America great is not it's military might, or it's wealth, but the will of the people to take control of their own lives and to make it a better place to live for future generations, and not depend on the government to take care of them when disasters strike. When disasters strike, strangers, neighbors and others will take care of those who are affected. We don't expect, nor do we want our government sticking it's nose in everything we do. Unfortunately that mentality is changing, and now more and more, people expect the government to hand them money when a disaster hits. Most of the world think of their governments as a seperate entity that is to take care of them and protect them. We in America still believe the government is "We the People" and not a seperate entity, so therefore We are the government, and We will decide which direction the nation moves, and not a "seperate" government. This is what confuses most of the world as they truly do not understand our way of life.

Sonar
12-07-2005, 08:20 AM
I have to agree with dag and wxman. The black population in the USA cries racisizm just as a baby cries for milk. Then the bleeding heart left starts throwing taxpayer money at them to shut them up.
A never ending cycle of government waste.
My home in south Florida has been devastated by hurricanes 4 times since hurricane Andrew in 1991. Never once have I received a single cent in government aid. Never asked for it and never wanted it.
What really pisses me off about the New Orleans disaster is that many Europeans are using this to try to attack the social morals of the USA. Totally disregarding the facts and jumping on any opportunity to discredit Americans in any way possible.
America handles it's own business. If Europeans want to stick their noses into it, then maybe they should become better informed.

A man's mind, streched by a new idea, will never re-gain it's original dimension.

ham
12-07-2005, 11:35 AM
I do [u]not</u>care at all about "racism" & whatever snobbish whitey hippie words minorities (negroes etc) get drunk to.
I'm not used to rally to the hippie liberal bandwagon, either.
however
I am deeply convinced governments have no morals whatsoever.
Jefferson, Hamilton & Franklin would be as disgusted as i am.
While i respect Jefferson, Hamilton, Franklin & co, i despise way things are now.
The whole point was about USSR or FSU government or system being oh-so-bad compared to western ones: that's definitely not [u]so</u> true.
The hurricane is an example.
Source?
y@hoo & MSN news, not Al-jazeera.
I understand people should be in charge of themselves, but that is another issue: big brother needs parasitic minorities of all kinds to run its ballot machine.
News reported big fatly paid bureaucrats (now indicted) were sending emails to discuss their wardrobe, rather than caring for their citizens ( discussing policy making, whether right or wrong is another issue ).
That is utterly third-worldish.
At the same time, Doublejew was passing laws to fund "anti-bunker" warheads...which most specialists (again Y@hoo news, not Al-jazeera ) say it's a waste of money and -if done- an unsurpassed threat to the environment.
What for?
To blast "terrosists", aka any "rughead" with bleach, cotton & other kitchen ingredients to make a bomb to blow himself along with me & you.
Now...how many left or right shoes do you need to get to that point?
I'm not naive: i understand the clown has a few more years to run and he'd better play the part & please friends, funders & men in cahoots before some "scandal" erupts.
Same as local Berlusconi made some "illegal" favour to him in his world annexion crusade, and in return the USA repealed requests from local lefty judges about Berlusconi's US affairs leading to tax fraud he's indicted for.

1+1=2.

Sonar
12-07-2005, 07:52 PM
I'm not trying to become involved in a political debate here. I don't have the time or the interest for it. But I will say that both Yahoo and MSN report all of their news with a leftist spin. Fox news spins toward the right. Who spins directly in the center?? Nobody that I know of.


A man's mind, streched by a new idea, will never re-gain it's original dimension.

Dag
12-08-2005, 03:33 AM
I think we ought to start sneaking russian women across the Bering Strait, then get them free medical as illegals, then poppin out hundreds of Russian kids with free education, no tax and business loans. As a cracker, I don't get any of those things and hell I could help run a few gas stations or the like, provided my illegals got a free ride for 7 years and they didn't have stones in their foreheads.

ham
12-08-2005, 07:58 AM
quote:I think we ought to start sneaking russian women across the Bering Strait

i think there are not so many FSUWs with a [u]real</u> intention of relocating abroad, otherwise Alaska would be right there...you get "wetbacks", "spooks" and "beaners" instead...what's the difference? That beaners want to relocate and they simply do it...
I think the bulk of FSU love queens (kings?) is interested only in collecting monies from gullible suckers.
Even more so because $100 there go a longer way than $100 here.
Old INS studies showed MOB immigration accounts for 0,21% only of yearly US immigration...there you have asians, latinas etc.

Agencies?
They claim to have arranged tens of thousands of marriages, totalling more FSUWs than INS knew about at that time.
Of course agencies can't offer backed-up proof to date because they "lost contact" or whatever...alright.
Elsewhere there was this debate about "success stories" and it appeared agencies are very quick to claim you're one, if you go on a tour and think ( as everybody does in those moments ) you've found your soulmate.

Dutchy013
12-08-2005, 10:34 AM
It is no longer a controversion between coloured and white people. It has become between have and have not's, or the North part of the globe versus the South part.
It is governments duty, to take care of the have not's.
I am sure a great number of Americans will not aprove of this :D

Sonar
12-09-2005, 10:10 AM
quote:Originally posted by Dutchy013

It is governments duty, to take care of the have not's.
I am sure a great number of Americans will not aprove of this :D

That is a socialist idea that has prooven worthless everywhere except China and North Korea.
In a democracy, it is NOT the governments DUTY to take care of the have nots. However, our government subsidises housing, food, clothing, education and medical expenses to those in need.
This has led to an entire sub-culture of people that have never done anything to try to better themselves and have no plans to do anything other than live off of the government. 90% of them are black.
If the disaster in New Orleans would have happened in the middle of August rather than the 29th, there would have been far less casualties. The reason is simple. As a black woman said "I ain't goin' nowhere till I get my welfare check." That was the mentality of 99% of the dumbasses that refused to evacuate. Welfare checks were due on the 30th but of course mother nature had other plans.
And yes, you are correct about one thing. A great number of Americans would not approve of your comments.

A man's mind, streched by a new idea, will never re-gain it's original dimension.

ham
12-09-2005, 12:06 PM
wud ya sayy'n, ya cracka mutha****a?
deeze iz coz ppl wanna geeve no job two da brothas and sistas.
den dey say dat wee only know two upperrate da switchblade or da crack pipe...nossuh!
Iz da white hicks woo keep uz leigh dat, understand?
now i'm gwine cashing ma check in ya face.

Dutchy013
12-12-2005, 08:57 AM
Sonar,
I think you are simplifying matters.
Problems are more complicated as just white/black.
You mix up socialist and communist, which are two complete different idea's.
The world has become one big village, people are moving around the world to get jobs and a better life.
Europeans went in the 50's to Australia, Canada and the US.
Now we have movements from South to North, e.g. Africans to Europe and Central Americans/Mexicans to the US.
Jobs are moving from West to East, because labour in the US and West Europe has become to expensive.
Shareholders and CEO's have no longer any feeling with the society they live in, it is all about making a buck.
The same people move our jobs to the East, because 10% revenu is not enough and they also own the political elite becuase of all their donations.
In the mean time they make the "blue collar" believe they have still have influence by voting and a chance to relise the "American dream"

I should stop here.
This is not the forum to exchange political idea's and maybe I have become to cynical and lost believe in our polical and economical leaders, American and European alike.

Sonar
12-13-2005, 09:16 AM
quote:Originally posted by Dutchy013

Sonar,
I think you are simplifying matters.
Problems are more complicated as just white/black.
You mix up socialist and communist, which are two complete different idea's.




Well Dutchy, I don't know what matters you are talking about but I am not speaking of worldly conditions. I am speaking of one specific event here in the USA. And here in the USA, there are many issues that are white/black issues. Certain blacks make it that way by continually crying raceism everytime something does not go their way.
And no I don't think that I am mixing up socialism and communism. Every communist government that has ever existed was based upon socialistic ideas. It is the basis communism. So, I don't understand what you mean by two completely different ideas. Are you saying that every political science professor in the world is wrong?

A man's mind, streched by a new idea, will never re-gain it's original dimension.

Detective
12-13-2005, 10:13 AM
According to Marx, socialism is a stage on the way to communism, which is the more advanced stage of humyn organization not yet achieved in China or the Soviet Union, even according to Lenin, Stalin and Mao.

According to Marx, under socialism we have a dictatorship of the proletariat which is a government organized for the defense of survival "rights." Also, distribution goes by the principle "from each according to his/her ability, to each according to his/her work."

Under communism, according to Marx, the government disappears and there is economic cooperation as well. The principle of distribution becomes "from each according to his/her ability, to each according to his/her need."

Socialists and communists existed before Marx. Marx is the single most-respected authority and reference point, but the words "socialism" and "communism" still have various shades and applications, because of the diversity amongst those calling themselves "communist" and "socialist."

Many calling themselves socialist would like to stop with the nationalization of the means of production and not move on to communism. They also often oppose the "dictatorship of the proletariat" in the name of democracy. For example, they supported the imperialist World War I, because the majorities of their countries supported it, while we Marxist-Leninists found World War I anathema to the proletariat, against survival "rights."

Since World War I, there has been a very large split between many calling themselves "socialist" and those calling themselves "communist;" however, to make matters more complicated there are socialists found who would not support World War I today and there are "communists" who would favor doing whatever the majority wants. There are also "social-democrats" who want reforms to imitate the results of socialism while keeping capitalism.

When MIM uses the terms, we use them this way: 1) "Communism"--the classless society with no state of the distant future. "Communist"--someone who wants to get to communism or the adjective for "communism." Examples include many tribal societies of the past and in remote areas still living today.
2) "Socialism" refers to that period/stage between capitalism of today and the communist goal. During that stage there is "dictatorship of the proletariat." Examples are the USSR under Lenin and Stalin or China under Mao.
3) "Social-democrats"--whether they call themselves "socialist" or not, people opposing the "dictatorship of the proletariat" in practice and hence socialism itself. Examples would be Sweden today.

ham
12-13-2005, 01:17 PM
quote:Originally posted by Dutchy013

Sonar,
I think you are simplifying matters.
Problems are more complicated as just white/black.
You mix up socialist and communist, which are two complete different idea's.
The world has become one big village, people are moving around the world to get jobs and a better life.
Europeans went in the 50's to Australia, Canada and the US.
Now we have movements from South to North, e.g. Africans to Europe and Central Americans/Mexicans to the US.
Jobs are moving from West to East, because labour in the US and West Europe has become to expensive.
Shareholders and CEO's have no longer any feeling with the society they live in, it is all about making a buck.
The same people move our jobs to the East, because 10% revenu is not enough and they also own the political elite becuase of all their donations.
In the mean time they make the "blue collar" believe they have still have influence by voting and a chance to relise the "American dream"

I should stop here.
This is not the forum to exchange political idea's and maybe I have become to cynical and lost believe in our polical and economical leaders, American and European alike.





with one small foreword.
All this rhetorics about "we all come from somewhere else" & " we are all emigrants" ( aka non-primordialism )was ok up until the beginning of this century.
I read reports about how Irish or Swedish immigrants used to live in CANADA at the beginning of this century, and one would freak out.
These days the first african or else moron just out of jail is welcomed with free healthcare, free monthly annuity, free this & free that.
Which wouldn't apply when grandpa Salvatore was sailing from Sicily to New York, or grandpa Bepo to Montevideo or Buenos Ayres in 1890.
Italian immigration made Uruguay and Argentina great...welfare just turned Argentina to the third world.
Does South Africa ring any bell?
According to the world bank, ZA negroes were the wealthiest pro capite in the world, including the USA...these days ZA is a "developing country" same as Uganda or Congo.
So the "global village" & " we're all emigrants" rhetorics doesn't hold much water because today a) welfare and b) declining economy turn that into collective suicide...because our taxes pay for it.
As well, that as little to do with George Clooney's Como villa or Madonna's Florence estates...
While China, Malaysia & Pakistan rip our a$$ in shreds with superior products at 1/10 the cost, we're flooded with full room&board parasites hoping to catch the next "economic boom"...yea right.
These are facts.
Politics are for people wearing jewels and frocks of different colors.

ham
12-13-2005, 01:28 PM
quote:According to Marx, socialism is a stage on the way to communism, which is the more advanced stage of humyn organization not yet achieved in China or the Soviet Union, even according to Lenin, Stalin and Mao.


Marxism is a spoof of the new testament. Both are from jewish faddists. Charity/solidarism-brothers/tovarishi-community of the faithful/proletarians etc.
The only idea i got from Marx is exploitation over men pays never back in the long run (see USA & slavery ) because no matter how dumb, black or else, nobody's born stupid.

As for the rest, both christianity & marxism are like Nostradamus' prophecies: everybody reads into those ambiguous ramblings whatever they want to read.
Through these decades i've seen dozens of "instant books" shouting out loud how they had found the key to Nostradamus & they were predicting doom&gloom based upon (then) current events.
Of course not one of those charming deductions ever applied and it is a known fact both Germans & Englishmen used Nostradamus to witness their final victory.