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lonelyboy
12-15-2005, 06:24 AM
Hi !

I see that probably only 5-10 % of all readers will give some replies. Why ? And there are only 5-10 active writes.
My estimation is that less than 5 % of all who have been scammed will inform and write about it...
I know it is a hard situation to think that there is real LOVE and then get so much disappointed....

ham
12-15-2005, 07:17 AM
1) many people register, then forget about it. They are counted in but they've never been there to start with. I registered with 10x forums than i actually bother visiting.
2) some people register more than one alias. Perhaps they can't login under the first one, or want to play WWW games. Again, that boosts numbers but not real people.
3) some are afraid to be ridiculed if they say they got scammed.
4) some are (understandably) resentful, but are afraid to voice their discontent in fear of the knight in shining armour or rubbish kind of people who'll label them as "woman haters" and start a feud: that has happened to me countless times, albeit i don't care for this is the internet.

lonelyboy
12-15-2005, 07:26 AM
I compare here replies / read .
They are figures about active visits here.

ham
12-15-2005, 08:26 AM
i use proxyes and i clean cookies.
every time i visit i'm a "new" visitor...while it's not so.

lonelyboy
12-15-2005, 11:57 AM
I agree, I gave only some estimations but the real "silent" group is anyway very big. I think that thousands of men are scammed every year (my estimation again). Where are they ?

ham
12-15-2005, 05:48 PM
I can talk for myself.
when i got scammed, i realized it was (almost) entirely my fault; and yes i didn't trust completely and yes, i summoned an acquaintance who talked to her & even visited her and yes i sent $ for in-person pickup at a bank and yes i had her passport & address...in vain.
I understand i was a sucker sending $...any $ you send to those crooks is lost...and i bothered to verify she was real...go figure those who don't.

So i pocketed the loss & moved on.
Not the first, not the last time a person in bad psychological shape gets taken for a ride by unscrupulous parasites.

Why didn't i bother plastering the internet about it?
First, it was so long ago...1999...at that time nobody would talk about scams...it was the golden age of the FSU-MOB thing...pretty topmodels making $ 30 a month packing coal & living in a cartonbox building without tap water walk 30km to work every day and 1h internet costs 1 week salary...who marry (lower) average western man with poor looks, even 3x their age...and live happily ever after even if he's disabled & living off food stamps...

Second, i admit i was a fool...period.
There are no such "shortcuts" in life...

People don't come in the open on a mass basis because:
a) fear of being mocked
b) awareness their $ is gone anyway
c) not exact knowledge of how or why. It is amazing how many fall for some faked visa, while all it takes is calling the competent embassy or else.
So most move on...
One thing is for sure...after such rides trust is gone forever.

elenag
12-15-2005, 08:05 PM
I agree with the above and I will add one more point

When 3 or the active 5 posters (namely Detective, Lonelyboy and Sonair, I think) get together and start agreeing with each other, you guys sound like one big broken record.

I am a regular on 3 major boards discussing Russian scam, and this one is the most unpleasant and boring one to be on, there is rarely anything new, only the degree of Russian-hatefullness seem to wary slighly from week to week. Forget about any diversity of opinions and ideas. Neither of the 5 posters seem to have great deal of knowledge of actual scam scenarios, or immigration laws, or culture. Besides their own negative attitude (due to their bad experiences) and the "never send any money" slogan they have little more to offer.

Now, when Nick seems to be gone, it is at least not as hostile as it used to be. But it is still the least interesing of all the boards. So if a user had a choice between you and a board with many more posters (many of which have lots of experience with dating and marriage to Russians), why would they stick around here? Too much negativity and too little meaningful input.

No offence anyone (though I know you will probably feel not happy), but you asked, and I thought I might express my opinion.

P.S. There is plenty of people reporting the scams. Just look through the black list on this site. I get 4-7 reports per day on average. Or look at other discussion boards. There are fresh scammer evaluation requets and reports every day. Not here, though.

Sonar
12-15-2005, 08:29 PM
quote:Originally posted by elenag


I am a regular on 3 major boards discussing Russian scam, and this one is the most unpleasnat and boring one to be on, there is never anything new, only the degree of Russian-hatefullness seem to wary from week to week. Forget about any variety of opinions and ideas.


HaHa!! Just what kind of new stuff are you interested in?? You wanna hear about how great Russian women are???
It's really a pretty simple equation. Guys that have been involved personally with Russian women sometimes have a different opinion than those that live in fantasy land on the internet. 90% of guys on these forums have never been there and never known a Russian woman in person. And sure, they are full of variety with different opinions and ideas. But sooner or later, alot of them are scammed.
I don't think that anyone here has express or implied any hatred towards Russians.
But it's very possible that someone new to this will read some of these comments and learn something that they don't know. But of course that would be bad for your business, right??

A man's mind, streched by a new idea, will never re-gain it's original dimension.

elenag
12-15-2005, 08:32 PM
Take it however you want it, but that was my imput. I may be wrong, I may be right.

Sonar
12-15-2005, 08:45 PM
quote:Originally posted by elenag

See. That's what I was talking about.


What are you talking about? You are not making alot of sense.
Are you saying that a guy such as me, who has been to Russia many, many times, Has been personally involved with several Russian women, who has many friends in Russia, who is involved with a very nice Russian woman at the present, who is going to Moscow next month does not have a right to an opinion??
The facts are this: 75% of Russian women on the internet are scammers in some way. Very few guys find meaningfull relationships with Russian women on the internet and most of it is BS.
Maybe you disagree with some things said here. It's your right but it does not change the facts.

A man's mind, streched by a new idea, will never re-gain it's original dimension.

elenag
12-15-2005, 08:50 PM
I do not find you all that knowledble about Russia and FSU, or about R. women. But of course you can express your opinion, that's why we are all here. My poin is, there are boards with lots more going on, many more scam reports, and the level of negativity is probably one fifth of the one around here. Somehow they manage to do that, and they attract alot more readers AND posters. Maybe it is a coincedence, I don't know

Sonar
12-15-2005, 09:01 PM
quote:Originally posted by elenag

I do not find you all that knowledble about Russia and FSU, or about R. women.
Well just how knowlegable should a guy be? There is only so much to know about Russian women in general. Probably don't know as much as Russian men but definalely know more than 95% of the yoho's that have never been there.
To return your compliment, maybe you don't really know as much about scammers as you claim. How many have you really busted?? How many men have actually gained anything by your so called detective work?
Are there any less scammers out there because of your efforts?

A man's mind, streched by a new idea, will never re-gain it's original dimension.

elenag
12-15-2005, 09:12 PM
I am not sure if there that less scammers, but I sure hope there are less victims. Busted scammers... let's see. I have helped to investigate a few. Were they arrested? No. Why? Because the victims wouldn't bother to proceed with the criminal case.

babe_in_rusland
12-15-2005, 09:16 PM
I would like to echo what Elena says above. There are a few "trolls" here who like to make sweeping generalizations about FSU women, deprecating comments about Russians, and who really demonstrate no knowledge about the world of scams.

For myself, I only post if I find some topic interesting or if I feel that I have something constructive to contribute. I have never been scammed, but I am fascinated by scammers, especially the Nigerian 419 and the Russian Bride scams, although there are lots more besides just those. I've been reading various scam sites regularly for more than 6 years and it's quite an education!

elenag
12-15-2005, 09:16 PM
quote:Originally posted by Sonar
]Well just how knowlegable should a guy be? There is only so much to know about Russian women in general.
Wow. Ok, I think now I will just admit that arguing with a man of your intelligence is a complete waste of time for me. Please, carry on. I will try not to interrupt any more.
Good luck with your search of a Russian wife, btw.

Sonar
12-15-2005, 09:20 PM
Just to set things straight with this goofy Russian so-called detective (HaHa), I have never expressed any hatred toward Russians.
The Russian women that I know personally are very much different than this internet crap and I respect them for that.
It is not my fault nor is it my problem that there are so many Russian scammers on the internet. I only express my opinions about it. If anyone disagrees that the internet is not infested with Russian scammers, then they also have the right to their opinion.
But if a Russian woman comes to an anti-scam site such as this, trying to defend Russian scammers, then she should also be prepared for a little bit of heat.

A man's mind, streched by a new idea, will never re-gain it's original dimension.

babe_in_rusland
12-15-2005, 09:22 PM
Sonar, once again, you seem to miss the point. There is a thing on the internet that is known by the name "Russian bride scam." A huge majority of scammers perpetrating that scam are neither Russians, nor are they women.

Sonar
12-15-2005, 09:28 PM
quote:Originally posted by elenag


quote:Originally posted by Sonar
]Well just how knowlegable should a guy be? There is only so much to know about Russian women in general.
Wow. Ok, I think now I will just admit that arguing with a man of your intelligence is a complete waste of time for me. Please, carry on. I will try not to interrupt any more.
Never knew that it was rocket science. Russian women are really not that much different than any other women when it comes to human nature. They are not that complicated. A few cultural differences are the only complications that I have ever had.
Seems that this is not the first time that I have heard of you trying to question someone's intelligence simply because they did not agree with you. Like I said, it's not rocket science.

A man's mind, streched by a new idea, will never re-gain it's original dimension.

elenag
12-15-2005, 09:30 PM
defend scammers?[?]

i will bite my tongue on that one and go do something useful. enough of this board for one day...

Sonar
12-15-2005, 09:31 PM
quote:Originally posted by babe_in_rusland

Sonar, once again, you seem to miss the point. There is a thing on the internet that is known by the name "Russian bride scam." A huge majority of scammers perpetrating that scam are neither Russians, nor are they women.
I'm not missing any point here. What you say is correct. But there are also a HUGE number of Russian women on the internet that ARE scammers.

A man's mind, streched by a new idea, will never re-gain it's original dimension.

Sonar
12-15-2005, 09:35 PM
quote:Originally posted by elenag

defend scammers?[?]

i will bite my tongue on that one and go do something useful. enough of this board for one day...
Have a nice day miss scammer hunter. What a joke. HaHa!!!
Typical Russian visa queens!!

A man's mind, streched by a new idea, will never re-gain it's original dimension.

ham
12-15-2005, 10:57 PM
1)
FORUMS
I think they just follow the dynamic of the MOB business. It is my opinion the MOB business declines...how slowly is one's guess, but it does...bad press...people waking up to the truth...agencies finally blowing their covers up...whatever...
They can be divided into 2 categories:
a) non-profit (or mostly non-profit ) forums. The old RWA forum died of natural causes and there was no particular reason: i think the business gradually stopped attracting as many people as it used to.
One cannot blame its demise upon say trolls or people with agendas, for they have [u]always</u> been there, yet in the past you had dozens of new posts a day.
The new RWA forum died weeks ago...nobody was going there anymore besides 3-4 individuals. These places (like www.antiscam.org ) end up with only a few regulars because there is no driving force behind them besides people who have something to say. RMP is a different case as it got dozens of forums and sub-forums...again, a forum taken individually has just a few regulars plus the occasional lurker. I think they foster an unnatural and naive approach at times, like giving fraudulent behaviour the benefit of the doubt & other knight in shining armour attitudes, but that's life.

b) business-driven forums, Ex RWG/PL etc. You have thousands of users (on paper), but it's mostly a roulette run with aliases, cross-posters etc. They have resident sponsoring agencies and are known to run crusades in favor of their sponsors. Chaperons there are a bunch of idiots who never lasted a couple weeks elsewhere. Given it is an alias rally, egos abound & you get plenty of colorful personalities, odd feuds, weird philosophies and people with very big feet. These are business pimping machines openly run to cash a referral fee. Big deal.

KNOWLEDGE


quote:So if a user had a choice between you and a board with many more posters (many of which have lots of experience with dating and marriage to Russians), why would they stick around here? Too much negativity and too little meaningful input.


Unless it is a wild game made of aliases, cross-posting etc. I have personally busted quite a few people on big, active sites who were trolls and operated countless aliases...not the "activity" i'd call productive.
Many men foster such an irresponsible approach as: sending money is ok; i met my wife at my third email; keep the faith & give it wings & other such ideas...typically flavoured with comments like "i look 20 years younger " or "i make 6 figures tax free " or " i travel 34 times a month ": enough said.
Some have just filed for fiancee visas...some are freshly married...
i have seen many of them fall over the years, and many more are still to come.
Yes, i understand they are happy [u]now</u>: i would if i were them...still no proof of anything whatsoever...come back in ten or fifteen years & let's see.
immigration laws?
check your embassy's website.
culture?
that has nothing to do with scams & the subtly fraudulent & tricky nature of the MOB business. The LD/WWW/MOB scene doesn't offer a reliable sample of any population at large. Most people wake up, go to work & pay their bills...forget about forging cyber alter egos & writing rubbish to some stranger 5000km away to get spare change.
scam scenarios?
A tells B whatever in order to get a material, undue advantage, be it a WU wire, a laptop, a shopping spree or else using guilt-trips, button pushing, wind&fire, earth & sea generic concepts. Details are unimportant...money sent is money lost, no matter whether "she" (Igor?) told you her father needed a new liver or she was a neurosurgeon on an approved programme but needed pocket money.


quote:I have helped to investigate a few. Were they arrested? No. Why? Because the victims wouldn't bother to proceed with the criminal case.

1. international lawsuits are very expensive & time consuming
2. i think if there is a woman on the other end, she can just say she had "cold feet", met someone better or whatever, and one is stuck...it happens at home everyday.


quote:A huge majority of scammers perpetrating that scam are neither Russians, nor are they women.

There is [u]no doubt </u> that a good % of scammers are men. Where i have serious doubts is that the overwhelming majority of FSU-MOB scammers are not from the FSU...for the simple reason extracted $ is WU-ed or wired to, then cashed in the FSU.I suspect the nigerian male visiting student in Oklahoma will run into a few logistic problems to cash the 300$ poor Pedro wires him to Moscow thinking he's Olga the teenage beauty pageant.

lonelyboy
12-15-2005, 11:18 PM
Elena,

Some time ago you said here that you havn't visited Russia for about 10 years...
So in a matter of fact what do you know about modern Russian women ?
I have been in Russia for about 50 times, lived there about one year and met hundreds of women, so I know a LITTLE about them there.
I have nothing against Russian women if they behave well.
I do not hate them. If I did it why would I look for them ?
Probably I am an exception....here 95 % of men say that they never want to meet any Russian woman....all are prostitutes or thieves...
I have met many nice women in Russia but I must say that nowhere in other countries I have met so many so badly behaving women either....
Many (NOT ALL !) Russian women are very greedy and unscrupulous also thieves....
That is my opinion too....
Still I hope to find a real woman from there....
I think that I am privileged to say all this because I was scammed for 4 times and also lost 2 mobile phones for the thieves (women) there...

Sonar
12-15-2005, 11:35 PM
quote:Originally posted by elenag


quote:Originally posted by Sonar
]Well just how knowlegable should a guy be? There is only so much to know about Russian women in general.
Wow. Ok, I think now I will just admit that arguing with a man of your intelligence is a complete waste of time for me.
Good luck with your search of a Russian wife, btw.
Sorry that my level of intelligence does not meet your standards. By the way, where the hell did you graduate? Must be somewhere really special since you are such a supreme being.
I'm sure that it requires an extraordinary grade of intelligence to be an 'internet love detective'.
And who the hell said that I am in search of a Russian wife?
The main problem that I find with Russian women is that they are too hard-headed and arrogant. Just like you my dear!!!
Since you decided to come here and try to sling sh&gt;&gt; at me today, again I will repay your effort.
I think that you are just as much of a fraud as the typical Russian begging for money for visa/ticket BS. You just go about it in a different way.

A man's mind, streched by a new idea, will never re-gain it's original dimension.

elenag
12-17-2005, 04:01 AM
quote:Originally posted by ham
They can be divided into 2 categories:
a) non-profit (or mostly non-profit ) forums. The old RWA forum died of natural causes and there was no particular reason: i think the business gradually stopped attracting as many people as it used to.
One cannot blame its demise upon say trolls or people with agendas, for they have [u]always</u> been there, yet in the past you had dozens of new posts a day.
The new RWA forum died weeks ago...nobody was going there anymore besides 3-4 individuals. These places (like www.antiscam.org ) end up with only a few regulars because there is no driving force behind them besides people who have something to say. RMP is a different case as it got dozens of forums and sub-forums...again, a forum taken individually has just a few regulars plus the occasional lurker. I think they foster an unnatural and naive approach at times, like giving fraudulent behaviour the benefit of the doubt & other knight in shining armour attitudes, but that's life.

b) business-driven forums, Ex RWG/PL etc. You have thousands of users (on paper), but it's mostly a roulette run with aliases, cross-posters etc. They have resident sponsoring agencies and are known to run crusades in favor of their sponsors. Chaperons there are a bunch of idiots who never lasted a couple weeks elsewhere. Given it is an alias rally, egos abound & you get plenty of colorful personalities, odd feuds, weird philosophies and people with very big feet. These are business pimping machines openly run to cash a referral fee. Big deal.



I agree with almost all of your comments about other forums, except for very few. But what is the conclusion here? That this forum is the best among them all? That it doesn't have any problems? C'mon. No place is perfect, I dooubt it would be even possible. Yet the attendence and and number of users posting is souring here, not there.



quote:Originally posted by ham
Many men foster such an irresponsible approach as: sending money is ok; i met my wife at my third email; keep the faith & give it wings & other such ideas...typically flavoured with comments like "i look 20 years younger " or "i make 6 figures tax free " or " i travel 34 times a month ": enough said.



I do not know where you found that "i make 6 figures tax free " or " i travel 34 times a month " stuff but ok, let's say it is there. Now let's take a look at our participants over here...

Where should we start? Detective? Ok, I remember this: "I am from a first world country, I make a ton of money and I am wildly successful. I just write to RWs for fun, that's it."

Or, wait, here is Sonar. "I traveled to FSU over 50 times in the past XX years, I know all I need to know about RU, or women in general, I mean how much is there to know? I have a great RU girlfriend, though I don't even plan to marry any of those stinky Russians, they are all beggers and they are stupid cause they are 19th century.."

Do you want me to continue? Please!



quote:Originally posted by ham
Some have just filed for fiancee visas...some are freshly married...
i have seen many of them fall over the years, and many more are still to come.
Yes, i understand they are happy [u]now</u>: i would if i were them...still no proof of anything whatsoever...come back in ten or fifteen years & let's see.

Same could be said about anyone who just got married and feels (rightfully so) happy. Why don't we write on the walls of all the chapels, "Sure you are happy now... come back in ten years & we will see. God bless.".




quote:Originally posted by ham
immigration laws?
check your embassy's website.


Great advice. Yet if you can give instant answers to someone's basic questions, it helps sometimes.



quote:Originally posted by ham
that has nothing to do with scams & the subtly fraudulent & tricky nature of the MOB business. The LD/WWW/MOB scene

sorry to interrupt, but... what is this LD/WWW/MOB? I think I don't have enough background in English, because I do not recognize those. I have heard of MOB, but what are the other ones? You keep using them, and I never can figure them out, it is frustrating. And what is that MOB SCENE?



quote:Originally posted by ham
There is no doubt that a good % of scammers are men. Where i have serious doubts is that the overwhelming majority of FSU-MOB scammers are not from the FSU

I never said that I think they are not from FSU. In fact, I believe that the scammers are located where the money were picked up (Yoshkar-Ola, in most cases).

Most of them are local pimps. They send their girls to pick up the money. The girls come accompanied by a couple of guys, often pick up 2-3 transfers at once, and as soon as they step away from the WU window, the guys take over the money received. At least that is what I have been told by a WU clerk from Russia.

However, recent developments with the "check cashing" scemes and bank account transfers show that they do have access to resources overseas.

Detective
12-17-2005, 09:42 AM
elenag,
I do not care whether anyone agrees with me or not. I am posting here for fun... I do not have enough experience about russian women and I do not care about russia. I have enough work to the point that russia and all the crazy people there are the least of my interest.
U could be right in all what you say but let me tell u few facts:
1) Russian women barely know English --&gt; how do we communicate with them??
2) Russian women on the internet are NOT educated --&gt; My position does not allow me to marry a woman less than a masters degree.
3) I live in canada and u know it is not easy for any russian to come to canada --&gt; How can I meet her??

It is hopeless. I do not know many things about russians but I do not think it is worthit to deal with anyone of those. The reason why I tried to be involved with some russian girls was for fun....
If you want me to say russia is great and russians are perfect then that's fine... I agree with you but I am still convinced it is waste of time to have a serious relationship with anyone.

ham
12-17-2005, 10:27 AM
quote: agree with almost all of your comments about other forums, except for very few. But what is the conclusion here? That this forum is the best among them all? That it doesn't have any problems? C'mon. No place is perfect,

i do [u]not</u> care, to be honest.
i just state my experience with the few forums i've been at.
My option is not to become some internet guru (like many RWG/PL clowns ), but to contribute a cent to awareness. I have been on RWG and it ended with charachter assassination first (they said i was a "pedophile", go figure ), then (once the pedophile item burst in their face as i made no such statement ), they said i was not 1 but 3 or 4 different aliases, while it is enough to browse around to know i am the only one with the same nickname (ham/ham2 if the previous is taken ) [u]everywhere</u>.
Why?
I asked how do agencies thread people to weed scammers out and other unpleasant questions and lately a thread about the Elena P* franchise got deleted on antiscam-net because i raised unpleasant topics there too & it ended with the (usual) charachter assassination attempt.


quote:Posted - Dec 16 2005 : 22:01:49

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by ham
They can be divided into 2 categories:
a) non-profit (or mostly non-profit ) forums. The old RWA forum died of natural causes and there was no particular reason: i think the business gradually stopped attracting as many people as it used to.
One cannot blame its demise upon say trolls or people with agendas, for they have always been there, yet in the past you had dozens of new posts a day.
The new RWA forum died weeks ago...nobody was going there anymore besides 3-4 individuals. These places (like www.antiscam.org ) end up with only a few regulars because there is no driving force behind them besides people who have something to say. RMP is a different case as it got dozens of forums and sub-forums...again, a forum taken individually has just a few regulars plus the occasional lurker. I think they foster an unnatural and naive approach at times, like giving fraudulent behaviour the benefit of the doubt & other knight in shining armour attitudes, but that's life.

b) business-driven forums, Ex RWG/PL etc. You have thousands of users (on paper), but it's mostly a roulette run with aliases, cross-posters etc. They have resident sponsoring agencies and are known to run crusades in favor of their sponsors. Chaperons there are a bunch of idiots who never lasted a couple weeks elsewhere. Given it is an alias rally, egos abound & you get plenty of colorful personalities, odd feuds, weird philosophies and people with very big feet. These are business pimping machines openly run to cash a referral fee. Big deal.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I agree with almost all of your comments about other forums, except for very few. But what is the conclusion here? That this forum is the best among them all? That it doesn't have any problems? C'mon. No place is perfect, I dooubt it would be even possible. Yet the attendence and and number of users posting is souring here, not there.



quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by ham
Many men foster such an irresponsible approach as: sending money is ok; i met my wife at my third email; keep the faith & give it wings & other such ideas...typically flavoured with comments like "i look 20 years younger " or "i make 6 figures tax free " or " i travel 34 times a month ": enough said.
------------



I do not know where you found that "i make 6 figures tax free "


Well, there are various people on various forums. The last feud i had started when i replied with sarcasm (= not a personal attack ) to someone who claimed he (had been told he) looked in his teens and had teens for dates and this & that...
My approach is simple: if i were a millionaire, i'd be out spending my millions; if i were a super-stud, i'd stud my teen models; if i made seven figures tax free, i'd probably be busy defending mr.Clinton in court or transplanting anuses i wouldn't come on the internet to brag about it . AKA toothless dogs can only bark. I think that if whatever i say makes sense to somebody, then great; if not (because he doesn't want to listen or i couldn't explain myself ), then it's useless to boost one's credentials with facts we have no idea about, nor will we ever know.
I can say i'm George Clooney for all you know.


quote:Most of them are local pimps. They send their girls to pick up the money. The girls come accompanied by a couple of guys, often pick up 2-3 transfers at once, and as soon as they step away from the WU window, the guys take over the money received. At least that is what I have been told by a WU clerk from Russia.


many unscrupulous agencies have women sign generic powers of attorney so that any "agency manager" can transact on their behalf, including wires.



quote:

Great advice. Yet if you can give instant answers to someone's basic questions, it helps sometimes.




you run an investigation business and deserve a fee you agreed upon with your clients.
I just say that many men are soo naive and ignorant...again, check how many fall for fake photoshopped visas.
A person must be in charge of his own destiny.


quote:However, recent developments with the "check cashing" scemes and bank account transfers show that they do have access to resources overseas.




yes, routing accounts, coded accounts & all the rest. But i do not think that's necessary at all. A writes B sob rubbish made of canned paragraphs. B wires money. End of story. Even more so because $200 or 300 mean a lot in the FSU but can only be used to buy playstation games or pokemon cards in the west.

Sonar
12-17-2005, 11:35 AM
quote:Originally posted by elenag


Or, wait, here is Sonar. "I traveled to FSU over 50 times in the past XX years, I know all I need to know about RU, or women in general, I mean how much is there to know? I have a great RU girlfriend, though I don't even plan to marry any of those stinky Russians, they are all beggers and they are stupid cause they are 19th century.."
I have been to Russia 17 times and Ukraine 3 times since 1999. Never said anything about "over 50 times". Of course my passport was stamped upon every entry and exit in Moscow and Kiev. I have maintained a multiple enrty business visa with the Russian Consulate for 5 years. Not that I do any business in Russia, but since I am a business owner here, I qualify for this type visa.
If elenag does not believe me, I have no problem providing the proof.
Hell, my 17 year old son has even been there 4 times. Even he knows more about Russia than the average keyboard romeo that populates the other forums she refers to.
Never said that ALL Russians are stupid and never said that ALL Russians are beggars and never said that ALL Russians are scammers.
I'm told by miss g that I know very little about Russia and Russian women.I never claimed to be an expert on Russian women and as far as I know, there is no requirement for it. If I am missing out on something here, maybe someone smarter than me will inform me about it.
What miss g needs to try to understand is: TIMES ARE A CHANGIN' BABY!!!! As more and more western men become involved with eastern European women, more and more of the smoke is cleared and more and more of the REAL truth is being told. If that causes some Russians to be seen in a bad light, then I'm sorry about that, but it's just the way it is. They have brought it upon themselves.
For many years western men have been fed countless claims about how Russian women make such great wives. And that it is very easy to find a faithfull, loving and good woman in the FSU. Russian women are not so much interested in money and material things as western women. I find this to be true ONLY in rare occasions. The real life Russian women that I know all agree with this.


A man's mind, streched by a new idea, will never re-gain it's original dimension.

lonelyboy
12-17-2005, 04:55 PM
What you say about the education of Russian women is true.
Why should a highly educated woman look for a man from Internet ?
Also the level of education in Russia is very questionable.

Many women inform that they have a university education but don't know any foreign language and can't use the computer ! Ofcourse mostly this is only bluff and a try to cheat money by translation and internet costs. But this is also partly true and exposes the level of Russian university education. In our country a person who will be graduated must know at least 3 foreign languages of which 2 rather fluently. Russian education is mainly based on the praise of Russian culture.

ham
12-17-2005, 05:47 PM
I disagree.
i think that ([u]on average</u>) FSUWs in general are better looking and better educated than WWs. I said on average and i said in general. That was mainly because USSR etc regimes pushed the envelope on that side, while for example in the USA it heavily depends on personal finances and for example Italy is a country where you still got about 20% illiterate people and 2/3 have big troubles speaking italian correctly ( Italy is some sort of big Yugoslavia where you have descendants of arabs, germans, french & in between all lumped together).

i agree when we talk about FSUWs one can meet over the internet, EG LD/MOB scene.

The "visa queen" phenomenon holds little to no water, to speak of.
I noticed most of e-FSUWs tend to boast outstanding achievements and make overboard claims about themselves. When you see through the fog, their main titre de noblesse is knowing english...now i'm speechless.

That aside, the "very educated" item belongs to the mixed bag of outstanding claims agencies & middlemen direct at western men: the first coming a$$-ugly western, high school dropout oldie in his 70's living off food stamps in a cartonbox can have a triple Ph.D FSU self-contented, submissive princess model 1/3 his age.

the reason of such claims ( & not otherwise) is apparent: if had the looks of a gay cover model, ran a law studio with 20 employees, made 7 figures tax free and were a super-stud, you bet i wouldn't need the FSU to get my more than fair share of tail.

elenag
12-18-2005, 06:08 AM
quote:Originally posted by ham
i do [u]not</u> care, to be honest.
i just state my experience with the few forums i've been at.
My option is not to become some internet guru (like many RWG/PL clowns ), but to contribute a cent to awareness. I have been on RWG and it ended with charachter assassination first (they said i was a "pedophile", go figure ), then (once the pedophile item burst in their face as i made no such statement ), they said i was not 1 but 3 or 4 different aliases, while it is enough to browse around to know i am the only one with the same nickname (ham/ham2 if the previous is taken ) everywhere
Why?
I asked how do agencies thread people to weed scammers out and other unpleasant questions and lately a thread about the Elena P* franchise got deleted on antiscam-net because i raised unpleasant topics there too & it ended with the (usual) charachter assassination attempt.

Interesting. Can you give me a link? I am curious.

You said you questioned Elena P. agency? :D Ouch! ;)
I am sure there was some noise about that! But do not worry. I have seen several posts already when her agency came under some questioning.

But again, sure I agree, fights and un-necessary tensions happen on all forums, I have not seen any forum without some sort of power and personality struggles going on all the time. You were called a pedophile there. I have been called a scammer and fraud on this one... it's all hurts of course but in the end it is all usually just personal disagreements between the posters, it does not speaks to the quality of the information on the forums. Here the personal disagreements and attitudes seem to be the basis of the forum.

Another thing that this forum suffers from is a neglect from the administrators of the forum. Things get ugly on many forums, but this is the only forum where I watched people using the most offensive and abusive language toward each other for several days and even weeks worth of posting, and absolutely no intervention from the moderators.

Maybe other forums are business driven and whatever else, but at least they have some kind of rules of the game. Here there are no boundaries to some poster's bad attitudes and behavior.




quote:Originally posted by ham
you run an investigation business and deserve a fee you agreed upon with your clients.
I just say that many men are soo naive and ignorant...again, check how many fall for fake photoshopped visas.
A person must be in charge of his own destiny.


I am not talking about me. I am a different story. I am talking about the other people on this forum vs. people on, say, rwg. I just don't see the level of knowledge here that is on rwg. Some people there, even though not gurus by any means, still know more about the subject than all 5 posters here put together, at least in my opinion.

And yes of course, many men are ignorant, and naive, and some are just dumb. And some well deserve what came to them. When my husband reads my black list, he sometimes just shakes his head and says, "Some of these people are stupid, some are desperate, and some are both". But does it mean that we need to just leave them to their fate? Well, sometimes I think we should, because the frustrate me enormously, but on the overall I prefer to try to help them to see their own naivety and hope that it will be sufficient to keep them out of trouble at least as far as Russian dating scams are concerned.

ham
12-18-2005, 08:09 AM
well, while i don't care for mud-slinging or feuds, there are reasons why business-oriented forums are "censored"; i posted it here:
http://www.stopscammers.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=489
They censor & moderate only whatever suits their needs, aka is bad for the business.
Don't take it from me: hear one of their pundits.

I remember i got personally attacked in many ways unrelated to the debate, including pathetic ravings about "italian women being hairy" (???) as if they knew my ancestry or else to comment and as if i cared what they think about italian women. Next they ran wolfpack attacks against me. Idiots from there followed me to RWA and spent days forging aliases ( at least 4), attacking me with items like my education sucked ( while they didn't even know in which language i had studied ) and (hear this) [u]writing the RWA owner to ban me for i was a threat and this & that</u>. Some even sent me hatemail.

Now can you get more twisted and show your mental imbalance more?
Still, those were (at the time) RWG "cool guys": no wonder they routinely delete half of their posts, so that they cover tracks about past endorsements, feuds & other embarassing business.

So i agree they are censored, but it is a one-way censorship & it stinks.


quote:I just don't see the level of knowledge here that is on rwg. Some people there, even though not gurus by any means,

I don't know exactly what you mean by knowledge... what i saw there all the time were cryptic agency slogans and ensuing feuds. Oh yes, the alias popping up criticizing an agency, and the ensuing feud exposing the poster's business like he was a sex addict, a thief...

And the "russian women item"...what a pearl...
They had NONE for ages, then they had 3000, which is 40x RWA...give me a break...that is a multiple alias rally to make black panthers & KKK pale in comparison...
Why would legions of FSUWs flood such a place?
I understand RWA, but there is pointless.
I myself spotted say member #2000 carrying some agenda, then disappearing to be replaced by member #580 (supposedly registered years earlier ) behaving the same way.
Again, they are the only big site periodically erasing most of their posts.


quote:Interesting. Can you give me a link? I am curious.

it got deleted.
Well, i basically said they are no better than one's average big junk network agency and some "Elena P*" alias (whoever was behind there) popped up taking the holier than you approach (only on THAT forum even if my post was on RMP, RWA, Antiscam-org etc ).
Well, in 5 minutes i located a false/misleading claim on her "testimonial pages": that person confirmed to me repeatedly he didn't meet his wife through Elena's, nor had they anything to do with them, although he had been a client of hers (as well as many other agencies ).
I even PMed the name of the person to the site owner, yet the thread got deleted.
So if the first coming idiot locates a false or misleading claim, go figure.