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PeopleSmoks
11-11-2007, 11:47 AM
"Send Lawyers, Guns and Money" is a song that comes to mind... except, don't ever send the "Money"! It's nice to see that a few guys with the resources to do something about these scammers are actually doing it.

quote:Subject:
Alena G. #3977
.......to me ......
17 October 2007

you are the first
Whenever I see "you are the first", I think it's time to evaluate things before you even get started. It's like a girl with three kids telling you she's a virgin![:0]

quote:But I am absolutely unable to violate a woman or hit a woman or escalate up to violent actions
I won't hit a girl either. It's the way I was raised. Believe me, I wanted to on several occassions and would have been within my rights to do so... like the time my X stabbed me in my back(litterally) or the time she threw a meat cleaver at me or the time she threw a meat cleaver at me... yea, I said it twice because the b!tch did it twice.

quote:quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I must admit that it was a very sad letter from you and may be you have sence in leaving the site but if I would decide to do the same I would do it by some other reasons. I have heard a lot about spam sites where they have some unpleasant information about even this site but do you really believe in everything they tell and write? All peole who work here with this site or with some other company and organization first of all make money and I guess that is normal as everybody wants to live and to live good, but for this we need money. Yes, they take money on this site and they take it for service. May be they have some other motivations of doing all this work but you should first of all think why you do it! They help but nobody can make you spend your money if you do not want this and if it your priority that is fine and you are the owner of your life. My name is Anita and I am more than real but now I do not see any reason to assure you in anything as I see you have already come to some coclusions. We could meet but you do not believe it and that makes me sad. You know, there are no problems with this site and I know a woman who married a wonderful man with their help.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



the fact that she insists very much on the "site" & its credibility makes me suspicious.
Why would S-HE care?
I mean, long ago I joined match-com, yahoo-personals & many other sites: they were a tool to (try to) meet people, and I couldn't care less about the site or its reputation.
This sounds like another scammer in cahoots with the agency.
S-he depicts them like disinterested helpers, acting to benefit humankind, but forgets these sites are fatly funded by MEN'S MONEY...actually the ONLY reason they are still open.
This is exactly why it's a shame that more guys don't "stumble" across this site and others like it while surfing the web and downloading porn.

I was a newbie and ripe for the picking when I came across my first FSU/MOB scammer, but because I was soooooooo sincere about it, I was looking up info about Russia and found this and other sites like it.

I read the "warning signs", read some of the forum posts, etc and got an eye-openning. The girl I was writing to fit the "scammer profile".

She was a patient one. It was after 2 or 3 months that she actually asked for money, but I knew not to send it because of guys like ham, Prometheus, elenag and a few others. Thanks!

Like I say, it's a shame more guys don't "stumble" across this site BEFOREthey send money to the scammers.[8D]





Train returns

ham
11-11-2007, 12:35 PM
many men volunteer to live a dream.
it doesn't matter how farcical or irrealistic the fantasy might be.
We had a poster talking about his old father enamoured with a woman young enough to be his (grand)daughter.
Most men dream of significant age gaps...I'm not saying it is good or bad, but in the "christian women forum" I mentioned earlier, I summarily gathered bird's eye evidence that most of these "traditional women" married young. A significant % claims to have married their first boyfriend or highschool sweetheart...which allows for a 5 years max difference, give or take. I think I read of none claiming to be in a marriage with huge age gaps.
So we can bark up the tree, but some men are just unwilling to listen.
Perhaps Barney dreams of acting, and he thinks he deserves to play Adonis...while his best take would be the Frankenstein monster...now go tell him.
Leroy is 61 and looks like the offspring of Whoopy Goldberg & Sammy Davis, but he wants the white meat of 21yo beauty pageant Alexandra...he has wired her money eleventeen times already...go tell him what's wrong.
Reality checks can be painful.

PeopleSmoks
11-11-2007, 01:49 PM
quote:We had a poster talking about his old father enamoured with a woman young enough to be his (grand)daughter.

Well that's just so wrong on sooooooooooo many levels!!! Although, the old guy and the little girls DO have something in common... Neither are that far from being out of or needing to get into diapers!!!:D

Now I read that many FSU's actually prefer "slightly" older men(10 to 15 years older) because they feel that guys closer to their age are immature, and that a "slightly" older guy is more settled, focused, stable(socially and economically) etc... How much of that do you think IS the culture, and how much of it do you think is scammer bullsh!t?

I honestly focus my searches on the girls 10 to 15 years younger for a couple of reasons. Yes, I admit I would prefer a younger hottie, but also, I would honestly like to have kids and as I've said before, I really don't need some menopausal b!tch cursing me out in Russian/Ukranian because she's having hot flashes! Also, my last American g/f was almost 10 years younger than me, so I think it's within the realm of reality to make such a search.

I have written to the 18, 19, 20 year olds, but never took them seriously. I want to have kids, not marry one!!!!![:p] Besides, can you imagine going to meet the girl's parents and they're younger than you are???

Train returns

Goddiejens
11-11-2007, 04:28 PM
Very dear Morgoth,

I thank you very very much that you give here this address!!! Great stuff, indeed!!!

Thanks also to the other guys here for any reaction.

I am still undecided to travel there to this place. But I would really like to do that.

And for sure I continue to report here.

Goddiejens

David Chester
11-11-2007, 08:49 PM
the Krememenchug office moved to a new location!!

It is no longer in the hotel, I was there in October 2007, and the office now is in an apartment building, on the first floor....

but i do not have the address......

read my post, about 2 pages back.....on my experience at the Kremenchug branch!!

I felt that several of the ladies I had written were translator-faked letters!!!!!!



If you go.....stay away from this branch!!!!! I can't prove anything, but my gut tells me that this office is totally corrupt and CANNOT BE TRUSTED.

One lady's "grandmother" got sick right before I came....(the only reason I came to Kremenchug!) Inna 5659 and 'left' the site

my second choice in this town Nataliya S. #5751 was so eager to meet me!! But she had 'work conflicts'....and has never written me again!!

one lady I did meet...Natali H. #5749....I think she either did not like me at all....or she was paid to show up....something was fishy from the start of the date......she was pretty....also never wrote again...after I left.

I did meet one very real and nice lady....I will not give out her number....but she was to young....and needed two more years of school...and wanted to finish in Ukraine....she did like me, and I liked her too, but 2 years is to long to wait for a 20 year old lady....who could change her mind.....


C:\Documents and Settings\Owner.YOUR-1A19B0CB42\My Documents\My Pictures\Ukrainian Ladies\3795001

Also, unless you speak some Russian, you better chose a lady that speaks english!! Otherwise, even if you do meet a 'real' lady, she will have to take english classes or you will have to learn Russian!!

I am trying to include a photo of myself and one of the Kremenchug ladies, to prove that I was there!!

dave

David Chester
11-11-2007, 08:56 PM
photo didn't get in there.....

how do i insert a photo.....I see the html link above....clicked it....got the img and \img....but how do i put the photo in???

sorry to be a dumba$$

PeopleSmoks
11-11-2007, 09:03 PM
DC, I've been trying to figure out how to insert pics ever since I started on this site. All I get is the red X too. Prometheus tried to explain it to me once, but I just don't get it.[:I]

Train returns

ham
11-11-2007, 10:57 PM
quote:Now I read that many FSU's actually prefer "slightly" older men(10 to 15 years older) because they feel that guys closer to their age are immature, and that a "slightly" older guy is more settled, focused, stable(socially and economically) etc... How much of that do you think IS the culture, and how much of it do you think is scammer bullsh!t?

my personal opinion is that any age difference more than 10 years [u]must</u>be carefully scrutinized as the age gap increases.
Well, I have downloaded a book of precepts for marriage-aged girls [u]published in 1899</u>, yes about 110 years ago; if we consider marriage age then to be on average say 20 years, it was directed to girls born around 130 years ago, by an experienced matron 20-30 years older! That is the Belle Epoque (for some, 1870-1915 ).
The book deals with the question of opportunism and getting married for money.
For a moment focus on how different the world, customs, religious beliefs etc were, yet problems were the same.
The answer the book gives: it is not ideal to marry for money only, but by being a good wife this small sin is easily forgiven.
Today "by being a good wife" means "putting up with his cr@p enough for the permanent residence to arrive, so I can call a lawyer the next day ".
Face it, the FSU is not some secluded tribe of Neanderthals living in the deepest jungle, unspoilt by progress.
Marxist culture emphasized domination schemes and urged to read between the lines for exploitation in progress; modern western values emphasize cunning & conning...
Fact is, many talk about it, especially parties with vested interests, but I am not aware of all these millions of MOB couples living happy ever after; if they exist, they must be pretty secretive.
Some cases, yes; enough to warrant a leap in the dark and success for you, me, Barney & Leroy next door...there I'd be veeery careful.

ham
11-11-2007, 10:59 PM
quote:Originally posted by David Chester

photo didn't get in there.....

how do i insert a photo.....I see the html link above....clicked it....got the img and \img....but how do i put the photo in???

sorry to be a dumba$$


create a free geocities.com website; they have automated scripts to get you started.

PeopleSmoks
11-12-2007, 02:40 AM
quote:Fact is, many talk about it, especially parties with vested interests, but I am not aware of all these millions of MOB couples living happy ever after; if they exist, they must be pretty secretive.

I wouldn't say "secretive". I mean, if I were married to a girl regardless of her age or national origin, I probably wouldn't be advertising it on the web. It's simple privacy?

And although I would never compare FSU's to Neanderthals, it does seem that the culture may have been stunted in some ways by the former socialist regime?

Granted when a 20 yo says she's looking for a man age 25 to 75, it smells of a scam. But a girl 30 yo seeking a man 35 to 55 begins to appear more realistic. I'm 44 yo, not in GREAT shape, but far from dead. A 30 yo realistically doesn't seem out of reach to me... yet.

My real question is do you think it's unreasonable to believe that a 30 yo FSU might really be looking for someone 10 to 15 years older than her? Remember, I'm almost 10 years older than my American X g/f. That slice of hell lasted for 7+ years.

PS Thanks for the site info to post pics. I'll have to try it soon!

Train returns

ham
11-12-2007, 07:05 AM
quote:My real question is do you think it's unreasonable to believe that a 30 yo FSU might really be looking for someone 10 to 15 years older than her? Remember, I'm almost 10 years older than my American X g/f. That slice of hell lasted for 7+ years.


well, the older the woman, the better the chance.
the only possible answer is: some might honestly seek (much) older husbands, for whatever reason; some might be just faking it in order to gain undue material advantages.
It depends on the individual, but i personally am very careful when it comes to the internet.


quote:I probably wouldn't be advertising it on the web. It's simple privacy?

INS studies few years ago claimed US yearly MOB immigration accounted for 0,21% (zerodot-21) of yearly US immigration. You must admit INS got to know the numbers. Of this 0,21%, FSU-MOBs (because you had latinas, asians etc, too ) accounted for roughly 1/3...0,21:3=0,07% (zerodotzero-7).
Even if the number increased in this recent past to 0,014 or 0,09...that is many times over, still is a zerodotzero reality, therefore not millions.
Sure, some men ANEDOCTALLY claim to have "met at least 300 guys" who were filing petition only in one center...which might mean there might actually be "millions" of petitions being processed...
I am highly sceptical of individuals when it comes to this (I have read the INS studies I quote in full...see other threads )...how can one possibly have "met" all those people, considering most paperwork is done via courier or post?
This is another dubious statement like the one that young, unmarried FSUWs can get tourist visas to the west by millions.
Some agencies declared to INS to have engineered many more MOB marriages than INS ever knew about...I ask you: how comes?
Pressed for details, agencies declared they were unable to track back their former clients due to privacy, relocation, name change etc.

David Chester
11-12-2007, 10:09 AM
Hey Guys,

Check this one out!!

This is the UALadys online support phone number in New York
as it is listed on the UA Home page.....


<center>315-849-5814</center>

Call this number.....i got some guy....heavy accent, 'russian'?? "no ladys"

this number has been there on the home page for a long time......and its leads to a wrong number or worse....

Wait! There's more!! This is the email of the travel agent, they recommend on the site......before my trip....I emailed her at least twice...to get a quote, and she never replied!!!

Why not????

olesya.k@PanoramaTravel.com

olesya.k@PanoramaTravel.com

shoulda, coulda, woulda....:(

try calling that number!! Let's see if they fix it.....

and email this travel agent.....why would they post a agency, that doesn't reply to a legitimate note for a ticket price quote???

It is almost like they are warning you themselves...that they are a less than an honest company???

PeopleSmoks
11-12-2007, 10:12 AM
quote:This is another dubious statement like the one that young, unmarried FSUWs can get tourist visas to the west by millions.

This, I know to be scammer bullsh!t. During the time I was involved in writing to one of the many scammers I've had the pleasure of wasting my time on, I looked into visa requirements for single FSU's. According to the US Embassy in Moscow and Kyiv, it's almost impossible for these girls to gain entry to the US on a tourist visa, because it is assumed that they have no intention of returning home.

Whenever I get a letter from a girl telling me that she found an agency that will "make" a visa for her in a week, she goes in the scammer file. I read on an embassy website that the US is aware of the FSU/MOB deal and is actively trying to slow it down by making visa requirements so tough.(US visas may take a month or more to process depending on the number of applications received) I don't give a rat's asz who you are, your not going to get US beaurocracy to move any faster than they want to!

To get a "fiance" visa, the guy has to establish prior contact with the girl and provide proof, such as MANY photos of them together. Also, proof of financial stability and the ability to support an FSU fiance who it is assumed will not have a job when she arrives.

Train returns

PeopleSmoks
11-21-2007, 01:42 AM
Hey guys! I posted one of those free websites. Check it out. To access the "Scam Artists" page, for e-mail, type in "stop-scammers" and for the password, type in "forums". I've posted pics of some of the many scammers I've had the "pleasure" to deal with, and also a pic of my bud PrincessBlunt.[:p] I even put in a pic of my "X".[xx(]

Here's an update on my link guys. From there, you can link to another site I'm working on. Have fun!!!

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeycj7u/peoplesmokslives_

The "Scam Artist" page is really just for you guys on forum since this is the only place I've posted the access code and I have sooooooooo much trouble posting pics here.

You may have noticed that I rarely (if ever) spell out swear words as a courtesy to those who may be offended.

The web is a public place and that's why I put the access code on that particular page... although my home page is a bit "ME"

Most of the nude pics are what I received with/or right befor the money request letter. Some appear to be right out of Playboy magazine. These were often sent by the translation scammers after 4 or 5 letters since they only had a limited number of pics to send.

Check it out. I'd love to hear your feedback! More to come for sure!!!

You may notice that I put in a link to Stop-Scammers.com and to the forum. I like this site, you guys, and the knowledge I've gained here. I hope others will link here before it's to late.

Have a good one!!![8D]





Train returns

jake122969
11-22-2007, 06:02 AM
To People.........

quite the nice selection in your salad bar!! Now i know where to get teh pron. My bitches don't hold a candle to yours

Jake

PeopleSmoks
11-22-2007, 01:59 PM
Hey Jake... Thanks for the feedback. So far, only you and ham have checked it out, or at least mentioned that you did. Like I said, the "Scam Artists" page is basically a stop-scammers forum goers' exlusive since I've only given the access code to you guys.

I have tried to post pics here, but can't get it to work. this was the only way I could show you guys what I was talking about. I think the site turned out okay?:D

It's free through my new internet service! Unfortunatly, I only get 50MB free and I'm full... but fortunately, I [u]can</u> make a second free site and then link to it.

It's pretty neat! I'm learning more about how this computer stuff works every time I "play" with "my little piece of cyberspace". Maybe I'll eventually learn how to post pics here???



Train returns

ham
11-22-2007, 06:56 PM
bottom line:
if you (one, anyone) are an average man without big looks, big money or big status, you -whoever you are- have to be a fool thinking that playboy models & the like might (just might) be interested in you.
Sure, perhaps you are a great person; you have great hobbies; you learnt sanskrit in India, whatever.
When have women been interested in all that, after all?
And over the internet?
Women SAY they are interested in all that ON PAPER to divert attention from what they are TRULY interested in...
money (#1),
status (#2),
looks (#3).
Sure, you can be a sanskrit freak who meets a woman (who also is a sanskrit freak ) at a conference on sanskrit...alright; you are a religious fanatic who prays eight times a day & may meet a woman who is your equal during celebrations at your church...alright, I am NOT saying that these cases do not exist, for they DO exist.
But it is HIGHLY UNLIKELY you may meet your such-a-match on junk, popular dating sites (whether domestic or MOB ones ).

howard darby
11-24-2007, 09:23 AM
quote:Originally posted by PeopleSmoks

Hey Jake... Thanks for the feedback. So far, only you and ham have checked it out, or at least mentioned that you did. Like I said, the "Scam Artists" page is basically a stop-scammers forum goers' exlusive since I've only given the access code to you guys.

I have tried to post pics here, but can't get it to work. this was the only way I could show you guys what I was talking about. I think the site turned out okay?:D

It's free through my new internet service! Unfortunatly, I only get 50MB free and I'm full... but fortunately, I [u]can</u> make a second free site and then link to it.

It's pretty neat! I'm learning more about how this computer stuff works every time I "play" with "my little piece of cyberspace". Maybe I'll eventually learn how to post pics here???



Train returns


hey TRAIN
YOUR SET UP IS GREAT I NEVER RECEIVED ANY PHOTOS LIKE YOU GOT BUT I DONT REMEMBER ASKING FOR ANY.
I WAS REALLY SERIOUS ABOUT FINDING A LIFE MATE AND THIS FORUM SAVED ME A BUNCH OF MONEY. I DIDNT FIND OUT ABOUT THIS FORUM FOR ABOUT TWO YEARS AND I HAD EVERYTHING PULLED ON ME THAT WE ALL HAVE. LADIES NOT BEING THERE, ASKING FOR MONEY, NOT REMEMBERING WHAT THEY WROTE TO YOU ECT. ECT.ECT. THROUGH THIS FORUM SOMEONE MENTIONED ASIAN EYES, I TRIED IT OUT AND MET A BEAUTIFUL CHINESE LADY. I HAVE BEEN TO CHINA
AND THE LADIES WERE EXACTLY WHO THEY SAY THEY ARE AND YOU CAN TALK DIRECTLY WITH THEM. I WILL BE GETTING MARRIED IN APRIL. I JUST WANT TO THANK EVERYONE ON THIS FORUM FOR HELPING ME NOT BLOW A LOT OF MONEY ON THE SCAMERS.
THANKS EVERYONE
HOWARD

PeopleSmoks
11-24-2007, 01:19 PM
quote:if you (one, anyone) are an average man without big looks, big money or big status, you -whoever you are- have to be a fool thinking that playboy models & the like might (just might) be interested in you.
Always go for the gold, ham!!! Just remain smart enough to know not to pay for it. When I write to "super-model" types, I figure it's going to end up a scam, so I'm extra vigilant about looking for the RED FLAGS. Sure enough, I get exactly what I expect.

But, I still write because of the "What if" factor... being, what if just one out of a thousand is real??? Sure it's a long shot, but as long as e-mail is free, it doesn't cost me a dime to try.

Most of the nude pics I received are from 20yo to 25yo and are translation scammers who "...don't know what it is, but have a feeling inside that I (the scammer) can't explain..." and "I (the scammer) don't want to lose you (me)..."

This is accompanied by, "...you know I don't speak English and use the service of a translation agency..." or the next letter is from the translation agency telling me that they can tell the lady really likes me and wishes to continue our correspondence, but... and then they ask for money.[V]
b-BYE!

howard, I never ask for the pics either, but they sure do send them when they want the money. ham and I have agreed that the pics are obviously models or possibly stolen magazine pics. Some look like they came right out of "Playboy" magazine.

Currently, I'm writing to a 20yo who wants to have sex with me when I visit Ukraine, possibly next month. She can't meet me in her city, but would prefer to meet in Kyiv. Her first scam attempt was when she volunteered to find us a place to stay, accompanied by a pic of her in a thong or g-string. The scam here is that she finds a place, but needs money for a deposit.

I wrote to her in my next letter that I had already found a nice place. I'm waiting to see what her next scam idea is. Since she hasn't actually asked for money yet I won't post her pics as being a scammer.



Train returns

Goddiejens
11-24-2007, 04:19 PM
Hello PeopleSmoke,

here is an analogue scam case, please look into it:

-1-

+++

D: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 20:44:03 +0300
From: Irina &lt;irinakubankova@bk.ru&gt;
To: ... me ...
: My love !!!

Hello my love ......!!! I am very glad, that you have called to me
lovely my angel!!! I am very glad, that you wish to lead with me night
the darling. I have learned all, that we could be together the
darling. I have learned the name of very good hotel, this name the
darling "izmayilovo" it to be in Moscow the darling, it is very good
hotel the darling, I very much hope, that you can help me lovely my
angel. To me are necessary only money that I could arrive to Moscow
and there meet you my darling, and to reserve hotel reservations that
we could not waste time on it!!! I very much hope, that you can help
me. I very much love you, and I can not more without you the darling.
I very much hope. That we shall very soon lovely!!!
1000000000000000000000000000000 kisses for you the darling!!! Yours
forever Irina!!!

+++

And here is my answer:

+++

D: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 06:25:37 +0100
From: ... me ...
To: Irina &lt;irinakubankova@bk.ru&gt;
: Re: My love !!!

Hello my sweet love Irina,

thanks for your kind message. You are right, I would like to spend days and nights with you. But not in Moscow. For very sure you can find a city nearby where you can go by train without big money problems to a hotel where we meet. Please check. Of course, I will pay the hotel and our food and so on then. But I do not transfer money in advance to you.

Many hugs and kisses,
your .......

+++

No reply until now on my last mail.

:D

Goddiejens

TXMAN
11-25-2007, 02:18 AM
Hey Smoks,

Nice site! It's good karma and I always enjoy a story with pics!

Take care,

TXMAN

PeopleSmoks
11-25-2007, 04:35 AM
Thanks TXMAN! I'm going through a bit of crap with it right now trying to get more scammer pics in. I'm hoping to go back into my personal scammer archives and post more info to go along with the pics.

Since you've seen the pics, you can understand why they aren't as buried in my files as the info that goes with them![8D]

Goddiejens, how far from Moscow does this girl live? Throw this at her... "Google" Izmayilovo Hotel and see if they have a website. If they do, tell her you will take care of ALL the arrangements! (You'll know the prices etc...) If not, google Moscow hotels or Moscow apartments and find the name of one to tell her that you found a really great place yourself!!!:D

Then tell her that you would like to be the gentleman and come to "pick her up" personally, to bring her to Moscow with you. A "real girl should appreciate such a gesture of shivalry!?!

A scammer will probably begin to make excuses why she needs you to send her the money, BUT...

THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES THAT A SCAMMER WON'T JUST LET YOU WASTE YOUR TIME AND MONEY TO GO PICK UP A GIRL WHO DOESN'T EXIST!!!!!!!!!!

Train returns

ham
11-25-2007, 06:58 AM
quote:THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES THAT A SCAMMER WON'T JUST LET YOU WASTE YOUR TIME AND MONEY TO GO PICK UP A GIRL WHO DOESN'T EXIST!!!!!!!!!!

according to anedoctal reports from flower delivery agencies & others who offer to "verify" women, a sizeable % of addresses (hence women) are just false...abandoned buildings, ruined factories in the counntryside, a corn field; another spin is someone lives at the address, but they have never heard of your internet queen. It is also reportedly a strategy, albeit in the minority, to "hire" private people who know nothing about the scams, to receive letters or parcels at their address, for a fee of course.
Some say this ought to be impossible according to FSU law, but it has been reported.
Naturally when good old Pedro, Barney, Wong or Leroy show up, they find out their online love queen faded into thin air.
A few men have been so determined to finally locate a few of the identities used in scam...perhaps the woman existed, but had been married for 4 years and had 3 children; or was deceased; or had moved 5000km south.
Profiles are never disposed of by agencies, especially those that sell well...and also you get scamming loners who appropriate old profiles to run scams.
This is very common to ALL WWW/LD dating, not only MOB.
It is a common ploy to terminate desuete online relationships simulating accidents, after which a "friend" (the same person undercover) announces dear John or Sally say goodbye because their mother died, their dog disappeared around the local chinese restaurant, got in a dreadful car crash, whatever.
Next day "John" is back as Billy, and "Sally" back as Anne...
It happened to me a few times...i caught the liar online, and when I called the bluff, their answer was "I am poor John's friend"...yes, right...
A real american (I had verified) girl I was long ago "involved" with fooled me all way long, then disappeared hinting at some horrible tragedy in her life and her wanting to die or whatever hogwash about her not wanting to be around people anymore.
Now you wouldn't believe but she made me think she was madly in love.
Her "friend" (online under her moniker) announced she was on leave to attend funerals, yea right.
As of late the lying bitch is alive and well, studying for a M.A, and i had anedoctal proof that when she claimed to live in despair, she was living in with a older man...go figure.
What triggered the chain of bad luck?
I can't guarantee, but it happened precisely after I, sensing she might be sort of high-maintenance thing, had made clear I wasn't a millionaire or something like that.

jake122969
11-29-2007, 04:56 PM
for those of you who receive emails directly here is a valuable tool:

http://headertool.apelord.com/headers

It extracts IP addresses from your email headers and shows you the country of origin.

Another red flag to look for is " The Bat" This is a nickname program that spits out form letters with only key names changed.
This is found in the header of your emails a couple lines under the last "Received from" line

So if your lady says shes from Volzhk and the emails are generated from a Netherlands IP address you can be damn sure something is fishy

PeopleSmoks
11-29-2007, 10:10 PM
jake... you're a G@d damn genius! You are G@d damn gifted! Only thing is you stopped short. I checked that link and pasted in a few headers and got addresses in Ukraine, but then if you click "google" next to the location, you can get so much more info!!! Um... likie the name of the guy who is probably sending that e-mail????

If you click "whosit" you can even get street addresses!!!!!!!!!!!! Where did you find this, and thank you for posting this information and link! I'm putting it on my site, and will pass it on in other forums. This is something that everyone NEEDS to know about! Of course I will give you all the credit!!!!!

THANKS !!!!!! You kick scammer ass!!!!!

Train returns

jake122969
11-30-2007, 04:40 PM
To People...........

I appreciate the kudos buddy. I wouldnt say that the author of fraud emails is identified by the program. I think it is the registered owner of the IP probably some small business or internet cafe or something.

Here is an interesting story proving there is no honor among these thieves when they get into the USA

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/1129073marriage1.html

PeopleSmoks
11-30-2007, 05:49 PM
Hey jake! I've been trying that site out left and right. So far, one girl who was supposed to be writng from western Ukraine, has an IP that traces to Russia... A couple of the translation scammers trace back to the same IP owned by some guy named Sergey in Luhansk... A couple others traced back to the same IP belonging to a guy in Kyiv... And my favorite is a translation scammer that traced back to Texas, USA!!!

The thing about the translation scammers is that the letter requesting money was never from the same translation agency, but they have the same IP address!!!

Trnslation scammers don't use an internet cafe! They can't read or write English!!!:(

That link is probably one of the best tools out there for tracing scammers, and again, thanks for sharing it with us!

Train returns

PeopleSmoks
11-30-2007, 05:51 PM
oh........ I put that link in my tool bar so I can click right to it whenever I want! Thanks again!

Train returns

swdawson
12-01-2007, 10:54 AM
You have not heard from her because she is engaged! She is happy with someone. Leave it alone.


quote:Originally posted by Kevin

I keep hearing about this squirrel story and remember my girl putting something like it in the letter to me. I will look for it and post email when I find it.

Does any body remember when they got this story?

My emails don't have all this fluffy stuff in it like "dear" in it 10 time in 1 letter but she goes into the Zhitomir office. I haven't wrote to her since jan 3rd and haven't recieved any from her either. I don't know if I should write to her and play stupid and ask her what has happen to CC/UALADYS and she what she says?

UALADYS server seems to be down this morning I can't get anything and it is the middle of the day in Ukraine.

ham
12-01-2007, 12:48 PM
quote:I think it is the registered owner of the IP

I.Ps are not registered, they are randomly assigned when one logs in onto the net, hence called dynamic. For an extra fee, say people running a server from their home can request a static I.P. Only static I.Ps mean something, because they never change. I may be behind dynamic I.P 1.2.3.4 at 17h30, and a guy 800km away might be at 19h21, etc.
There are logs that providers maintain to know which household/client was connected through that I.P, but typically are only released to cops or courts.
Some very big providers have their own exclusive pool of I.Ps, but others borrow & share them with upstream providers -often called backbones-.
I once put a former I.P address of mine over the internet and found leads to people in different countries, since my then IT supplier was a BT subsidiary and they shared pools of I.Ps.
Despite all the fuss, I.P location offers only limited evidence.

ham
12-01-2007, 12:50 PM
quote: You have not heard from her because she is engaged! She is happy with someone. Leave it alone.

yea...Kojiro from Osaka, Leroy from Harlem and Alonzo from Monterrey all think the same, too...and wires keep coming!
[:o)][B)][:p][:p]

PeopleSmoks
12-01-2007, 01:51 PM
Guys, I can't say enough about this header tool that jake posted! I just have to post the link on my site http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeycj7u/peoplesmokslives_. It's not in there yet, but my next update is coming soon. http://headertool.apelord.com/headers

The fact is, when you have several letters and all the headers come back to the same place, it's a good chance that's the place of origin. The fact that the place of origin is a guy named Sergey and not a company makes me think that Sergey is the guy behind the scam and doesn't realize the IP can be traced to him???

As for the girl being engaged??? She may even be happily married have three kids and have no clue that her old pics are being used, or she could be a model who gets paid by Sergey to pose for pics every so often?

Let's face it, if a scammer begins to realize they're not going to get any money from you, they stop writing and move on to the next potential victum!

Train returns

swdawson
12-07-2007, 06:28 PM
Why are you so interested in 4252. She has a name and I have been writing to her since March. I have just returned from Ukraine. She is perfectly happy with me. We are engaged to be married. I have applied for the Visa to bring here back to the USA.
She is a wonderful person. I have met her Mother and All of the people associated with the Agency. What I saw in Ukraine was a lot of people just wanting to get out of the Country. They are just wanting to better themselves. I had a lot of questions before I went over to Ukraine. I did my investigations and I was prepared for the worst. I had a great experience and fell in love with a great girl. We have writen over 600 letters and we speak on the phone every day.

:)



quote:Originally posted by Kevin

Prometheus I got the same exact letter from Bohdana Suprunyuk #6009 back on March 17 2006. I can see the agency sending a letter or 2 out to guys that they think are a good match for them, but it's almost been a year since I got the same letter from her.

I use a program called webcam recorder and record the agency webcams she write from for the day she writes to me, at least I know she writes them. She wrote to my today and looked at the webcam video I recorded and then looked at the time I recieved the email, it is in my inbox 30-60min after I don't see her on the webcam.

If anyone else is writing to 4252 please let me know, or if you have gotten any letter from her since you have been at the agency. you can find my email in an earlier post.

Prometheus
12-08-2007, 03:15 AM
quote:Originally posted by swdawson

We have writen over 600 letters and we speak on the phone every day.[/br]


Then have the decency to tell your bride-to-be to insist that her profile be taken down, before the next idiot willing to pay for 600 letters gets sucked in. UALadys will milk her profile for every dime it can generate. Apparently there are a couple of victims on this list. No offense to her, I'm sure she's charming... ;)

ham
12-08-2007, 10:20 AM
quote:hen have the decency to tell your bride-to-be to insist that her profile be taken down, before the next idiot willing to pay for 600 letters gets sucked in.

well...
I read a few cases of (supposedly) "engaged MOBs" whose chivalrous suitor reiterates online how happy their are together and how she is his & his only.
True or false, we'll never know but two considerations apply:
1. if that is true, why is she still listed? Isn't it obvious that some unsuspecting men might fall for a trap & incur emotional or financial loss?

2. assuming that she insisted to be removed, but agencies wouldn't comply...
2-a. why would the pair bother with what goes on online, if she is "his only"?
2-b. why not uploading a free page & indexing it on google? She might upload a free page (you get free sites with automated scripts ), where the couple denounces the profiles and announces she no longer is "available".

ClueLessLuzer
12-08-2007, 10:35 AM
[quote]Originally posted by swdawson

We have writen over 600 letters and we speak on the phone every day.

I'm curious what you chat about every day considering she doesn't speak any foreign language. Do you use a translator?

ClueLessLuzer
12-08-2007, 10:55 AM
looks like the girls want to come out and play....
http://photo.ualadys.com/photos/0/7781/small.jpg

PeopleSmoks
12-08-2007, 12:29 PM
Hey swdawson, is that a pic of your girl? Cute! Let's face it, the thread is about UA Ladys and not your girl in particular. If this is your girl, and other guys are receiving letters from her, that pretty much proves the problem with UA.

In the 600 or so letters you've exchanged, I would imagine she sent you more than just a few photos of herself, right? These letters and photos were sent through UA Ladys, right?

All this means is that UA now has a nice size database of photos of your girl to use(steal) when their scam writers try to con other guys.

It's quite probable that the photos she has sent you are already being "borrowed".[:0] It wouldn't surprise me to learn that somewhere in the contract the girls sign with UA that there is a claus that gives UA rights to the photos and letters they translate. An honest girl isn't thinking about what that may mean in the future.

How many pics did she send you? 20 or more of the same girl would be a gold mine![V] You never really know who you're writing to until you meet them. I've heard similar stories where the girl was engaged or even married and had no clue her old photos were being used this way or just didn't care.

Anyway, good luck! If you found a cute, real girl, you've also proven something I've said before... "With millions of girls in the FSU, there MUST be a few "real" ones somewhere!"

Oh, and GOOD LUCK!!!!

Train returns

Prometheus
12-10-2007, 04:34 PM
4252 is the famous Daria S. who has been mentioned in this forum several times before before...

http://photo.ualadys.com/photos/0/4252/902863_34546.jpg

http://photo.ualadys.com/photos/0/4252/902861_92267.jpg

http://photo.ualadys.com/photos/0/4252/887809_98659.jpg


quote:The girl I've been talking to for almost a year is Daria S. #4252. I have seen her in the top 100 twice but near the end like 98th place just yesterday. Any one else talk to her over the last year???? CC has mistaken once by sending me an email telling me I got an email from this girl and sent me her last name as well. I also have her rambler.ru email address and sent her an email (Jan 8 07) tranlated into Russian by a program called "@promt." Have not gotten a response yet. From January 10, 2007.

Agree with all who posted. Either her finace is deluded, or UALadys is scamming folks with her profile. Most likely the second.

Prometheus
12-10-2007, 04:51 PM
Random observations...

I attended the annual "Russian girls with older American husbands and boyfriends" Christmas party over the weekend.

I wish all you guys who think a FSU girl will be the answer to your dreams could have been there.

Listened for two hours in the kitchen as these child brides bad-mouthed their husbands, their husbands' families, the United States, their home cities... the food, the weather... the list goes on. "Stupid Americans and what we make them do for us" seemed to be the theme. The best part was discussion about what they were expecting for Christmas. Rolex, BMW, Prada, and Louis Vuitton were among the label names dropped. One gal brought in her new $1,500 handbag, and it was passed around the room and caressed by each expatriate like the idol of Baal itself.

Most of the American guys were in the game room watching the HDTV, oblivious to what was being said about them in the other room. Just sad. Very sad.

Asked one guy how he met his bride, said it was in a nightclub in Moscow. She had him hooked and pulled him over the side before he knew what hit him. Now he's putting her through the university at his expense, out of state tuition. She is taking a course in "theater history," but he does all of her homework.

It's like one of those 50's horror flicks, where the alien takes up residence inside the host's body, draining all the vital juices but never quite enough to kill him off.

Consider yourself warned...

Prometheus

PeopleSmoks
12-10-2007, 10:41 PM
AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Say it ain't so Charlie Brown!!!!! Sounds like just cause for a good ole fashioned American style wife beating!JUST KIDDING...???

Maybe some of it depends on the age of the girls and how much older the guy is??? I've read where FSU's can be just as materiallistic as their US counterparts, but simply don't have access to the stuff until they get over here.

As for Daria S. 4252, I'd like to believe the guy struck gold and that it IS UALadys who is doing the dirty work.

quote:It's like one of those 50's horror flicks, where the alien takes up residence inside the host's body, draining all the vital juices but never quite enough to kill him off.

You've just described life with my X !!!!


Train returns

ham
12-11-2007, 09:54 AM
quote:Listened for two hours in the kitchen as these child brides bad-mouthed their husbands, their husbands' families, the United States, their home cities... the food, the weather... the list goes on. "Stupid Americans and what we make them do for us" seemed to be the theme. The best part was discussion about what they were expecting for Christmas. Rolex, BMW, Prada, and Louis Vuitton were among the label names dropped. One gal brought in her new $1,500 handbag, and it was passed around the room and caressed by each expatriate like the idol of Baal itself.

Most of the American guys were in the game room watching the HDTV, oblivious to what was being said about them in the other room. Just sad. Very sad.

Asked one guy how he met his bride, said it was in a nightclub in Moscow. She had him hooked and pulled him over the side before he knew what hit him. Now he's putting her through the university at his expense, out of state tuition. She is taking a course in "theater history," but he does all of her homework.

well, some delusions come with a price.
[:o)][:0]
[b]ROLEX?! Vuitton? Prada?
HAHAHA!
The suckers are maxing their credit cards out again, so much to receive nasty calls from their bank or repossession agency...
I say: buy them a Chinese "Rolex replica" worth $50; the next illegal alien selling counterfeits might very well have Prada & Gucci stuff.
Tell her you have no receipt as you paid cash at some auction or whatever.
Are you cheating?
Not exactly.
You are closer to giving her a "real Rolex" than she will ever be to "being a faithful housewife 1950s style" as she let you believe over the internet.
Face it men: you cannot play fair with a card-sharper and expect to win on your sole poker skills...
I am a "monster", I know...
:D[:p]
Relax...sooner than later in divorce court none will be able to tell the difference between us ( me outside, Barney inside, that is :D ).

As well, no bursaries here.
[^]
They want the american college dream=they pay for it.
If they pay, they do it their way; if I pay, it is my way.

PeopleSmoks
12-12-2007, 04:01 PM
quote:I am a "monster", I know...
No ham, you're not a "monster". A monster would think of something truly devious like selling the money-grubbing FSU b!tch to some Turkish arms dealer to add to his harem!!!! Then report her missing and go back to the FSU and find another one. Heck, a guy could even find a decent replacement with the same name and everything! olga, Marina, Inna, Yuliya... take your pick. That way you don't have to buy new monogrammed towels!!![}:)]

Let's face it, selling her to a Turk is cheaper than divorce, or the Rolex and you might even turn a profit! The Russian mob does it all the time!!![:o)]

Train returns

ham
12-12-2007, 04:24 PM
The problem is some men grossly underestimate the pursuit.
the cheapest accredited US college offering a few full B.A degrees FULLY ONLINE charges $120 per 1 credit hour. A B.A is 120 credits. That makes $14.400 PLUS books, invigilation & ancillary fees. I'd say you'd be in the end over $20.000.

The second least expensive ACCREDITED college offering more degrees ONLINE & a few Masters charges $200 per 1 credit hour. That soars up to $ 24.000 for a 120 credits B.A + ancillary expenses; over $30.000 in the end.

There are others, albeit more expensive online colleges.

did I say online?

I bet your FSU online love queen won't settle for "second best", but will target a "real" [:o)] school, brick & mortar, so she can get out of the "cozy home" because her fingers need a break from all that knitting and her western prince Romeo...:D
In that case expect expenses to sky-rocket.
So western online prince Romeo is crowned King Behindhand, courtesy of Mastercard international.

PeopleSmoks
12-12-2007, 08:17 PM
That Turkish arms dealer sounds better and better!!! And he might even pay you a few grand for sending him the lovely blonde haired, blue eyed beauty!!![8D]

I'm sure he'll entertain the thought of buying his new 12th bride a Rolex and send her to get a Masters degree in... sheep herding?[8]

Train returns

swede
12-13-2007, 01:32 PM
Dear SWDawson,

while wishing you the best of luck with your girlfriend, I'm sorry to tell you, that your experience in your relationship (personal visit, family contact, engagement etc) in no way is a guarantee for her honest intentions. A few years ago I was in exactly the same situation in Sevastopol with Elena T. (whom some of you may remember from this forum), and she turned out to be a total fraud. Being "engaged" to me, and at the same time having 6-8 profiles at the net (most of them closeable in 30 seconds), not informing personal correspondants (suitors) of our "engagement", being obsessed by money and giving me a load of lies.

Hopefully your girlfriend is not like this, but remember that for many of the people you meet on netdating, backstabbing is completely natural. In Sevastopol I had contact with a small group of netdating women, and they didn't behave nicer to each other or the local men, than they did to western men. Some of them would marry for 2-3 years, until
their economical security was certain.

If any of you have ever read Frank Herbert's: "The Dosadi experiment", it describes the raw brutality you can find amongst such people, unhindered by honesty, moral, idealism or humanism. I am in no way advocating paranoia, only a LOT of care. Triplecheck every important decision.

jake122969
12-13-2007, 07:56 PM
I received this letter from a total stranger (unsolicited) despite the fact my profile is hidden from view


Subject:
Elena M. #8067
Michael S. #560453
10 December 2007

Love "IS"........


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THIS LETTER WAS TRANSLATED FOR ELENA

Hello my dear, &lt;VICTIM&gt; !

How are you doing? How is your weekend? I miss you so much.....

I want to send you this poem. I hope you like my letter.

Love Is ...


Love is the greatest feeling,

Love is like a play,

Love is what I feel for you,

Each and every day,

Love is like a smile,

Love is like a song,

Love is a great emotion,

That keeps us going strong,

I love you with my heart,

My body and my soul,

I love the way I keep loving,

Like a love I can't control,

So remember when your eyes meet mine,

I love you with all my heart,

And I have poured my entire soul into you,

Right from the very start.

Have a nice Day!

With love, your Lena


Here is my response



My most desirous strumpet Elena!

I write to you in the language of love. My heart soars at the thought of you. My very bowels move at the sight of your face. I write this verse to make you mine, mine, all mine! (OK, I may rent you out on weekends.)
I seek serious relations. I hope find find a good wife who will treat me well, and not smoke, drink, and beat me, as my American wife did. You know, all American ladies smoke, drink, beat their man, and spend all their money?
That is why I seek a lady from Ukraine on the internet. My brain is flooded with mushy words for you, my love. I must release them or I will burst!

To my stunning sex-deity, my orgasmic guru, my Beautiful Elena, my lickable trollop. Like the tinea in my toes, my love for you ever grows, my delicious morsel. Let my frequency transmit in FM. My love is like my back lawn. It just grows and grows. It will never be cut down. My frolicsome wombat. Let me be your burrow. Fling caution windward, cast off the robes of prudence! Gropingly, fumblingly but with dextrous determination I wish to grab and wobble those words which tell of my love, my love. Never in the history of mankind has their been a love like this. A love so rare, yet so warmly squishy. Co-mingle we must, with rutting abandon. I desire you. I need you. I want you. And I'm going to have you. Please be mine my swoon. My wetness, my throbsome, my Elena, Fena, Pofena. You are the effervescent prickly pear to my avocado, my jalapeno pepper pot. You might think our love cannot last. Perhaps not. But it will rise again. And again like the acid reflux in my heartburn. Do not be shy. Do not weep, but succumb graciously to the inevitable. Your bumptious charms razzle me ragged my rooting raunchpot. If you were the wheaties I would be the milk. Let me soak into you slowly. My nib is numb from these outpourings. It lies limp and inkless. I shall cut another! I desire you. I need you. I want you. And I'm going to have you. Say the word, and I am yours!
My most desirous Lenochka, the dimwitted queen of desire. You are the cockroach to my kitchen. Spray me. I write heatedly with expectant flushments of fleshy paradises. My bodily fluids are at the boiling point. You tickle my tease my trolloped tart. Let us be carnal. Let us be blunt. Be open with me, as I am with you. Wide open is my harbor, my refuge, my prison! Do not fear my rapacious rantings my ruin, only say we can rollick and romp redolently. Please be mine my swoon.

Do you understand my love for you now? Can I be any clearer? I LOVE YOU.

Jake

swede
12-13-2007, 08:22 PM
Hi Jake,

you both moved me to tears. It is better than the high song of king Salomon. I wish it was ME getting such unreserved love (and even from someone, who doesn't know me).

But maybe I will get my chance, I'm certain she'll get around to me also, if she finds out, that your income is to small.

PeopleSmoks
12-13-2007, 10:08 PM
jake122969, that little rant is priceles!!!!

quote:My very bowels move at the sight of your face...a good wife who will treat me well, and not smoke, drink, and beat me, as my American wife did...my stunning sex-deity, my orgasmic guru, my Beautiful Elena, my lickable trollop...like the acid reflux in my heartburn...My nib is numb from these outpourings. It lies limp and inkless. I shall cut another! My wetness, my throbsome, my Elena, Fena, Pofena...You tickle my tease my trolloped tart....
Can I borrow some of this stuff? I usually just write back telling them how much I like their sexy body and that I want to meet them to have meaningless sex! The answer I get is usually some like this...


Hello my dear new friend XXXX. I am so much happy to hear from you and to know that you have a strong interest in me cause I am also very much interested in you!!?
I am so much interested to know more about you, your life, your hobbies, your interests, your family. Well, you know for me family is something sacred, from the early childhood I was brought up in a tradition that family is very important part of life of every person, it is much more important than all the wealth of the world, do you agree?? what is family for you???
I think that I am a very family-oriented girl. I dream about having my own family like my parents have. I have always admired their relationships, you know they are always honest with each other, the trust each other without any doubts. It is so much great when you have really found your second half, the person who understands you from your first words, who can read your thoughts and desires. have you ever met such a person, you are still the same with me in a "great searching"??
I think you must be interested to learn more about my family. Well, I live with my parents. My father is an engineer, my mother is a doctor. My elder sister works as a teacher of English in primary school with small kids age from 6-9. She really adores her work and it seems that it is after her that I love kids so much. I can't look without tears how they make their first steps in life, how they grow up and become real princesses and strong gentlemen and what about you do you like kids??
As for me I am finishing university, my speciality is international economics, that means that I know English and we can communicate with you without any barriers, except this huge distance between us but we can overcome it, as in my fave song they say : "everything impossible is possible", yes????
Dear Bob, have you ever heard about that "hormone of happiness"?? you know I have just finished reading the book called like that " hormone of happiness". it is such a special feeling when you see , hear or just look on the picture of some person.You may know or even may not know this person. But this feeling is great, it something like you feel the butterflies in your stomach, you are so much excited, you have so much power that you feel you can ruin the mountains, you feel you can fly, you can do everything just to be with that person and you know I begin to feel something similar to you! is that ok that I am telling you that?? I am just used to say what I feel!?
dear, I am already missing your answer and you, warmest wishes, Mariya

Obviously didn't read the part where I told her I want to f@ck her brains out in every position we can think of!!![}:)]?

Train returns

jake122969
12-14-2007, 04:23 AM
To People

I would explore those "hormones of happiness" in depth. It sounds vaguely juicy

Jake

swede
12-14-2007, 06:04 AM
Try endorphine. It doesn't even require another person involved.

ham
12-14-2007, 10:34 AM
quote:Dear Bob, have you ever heard about that "hormone of happiness"?? you know I have just finished reading the book called like that " hormone of happiness". it is such a special feeling when you see , hear or just look on the picture of some person.You may know or even may not know this person. But this feeling is great, it something like you feel the butterflies in your stomach, you are so much excited, you have so much power that you feel you can ruin the mountains, you feel you can fly, you can do everything just to be with that person and you know I begin to feel something similar to you! is that ok that I am telling you that?? I am just used to say what I feel!
dear, I am already missing your answer and you, warmest wishes, Mariya

Obviously didn't read the part where I told her I want to f@ck her brains out in every position we can think of!!!

HAHAHA!
Think of it, these FSU online love queens all read alike.
I documented elsewhere how huge online repositories of canned scam letters exist...if they exist, it is because they are used.
As well, I saw software designed to "carry on upto 8 virtual conversations at once": why would any developer waste time on THAT? Software able to assign a series of canned letters to a parallel series of incoming letters?!
[:0][:0]

PeopleSmoks
12-14-2007, 08:27 PM
quote:I would explore those "hormones of happiness" in depth. It sounds vaguely juicy
Well, eventually Mariya got it. She's a 20 yo who wanted to meet me in Kiev so we could have lots of sex and not be bothered by her parents. She's a persistant scammer. I haven't had time to post her here or on my little site yet.

Scam #1: She offered to find us a place to stay.
Reply: I told her I already found a great place for us.

Scam #2: She needed me to send her airfare so she could get to Kiev.
Reply: What airline are you flying on?
I don't know the name of the airline. I will buy my ticket when I arrive at the airport.
Reply: I found the airline that flies from Chernovtsy to Kiev. I can buy your ticket when I buy mine and have it waiting for you.

Scam #3: I need a coat.
Reply: I'll buy you a new coat, clothes, sexy panties and anything else you want when we meet in Kiev

I never heard from Mariya again! So much for the "hormones of happiness"!!![V]

Train returns

brunods
12-15-2007, 09:27 PM
I have been reading this topic for hours! It has been so hilarious!!! heheheh

As for my experience, I have been with CC and now with UALadys. I have purchased tons of photos and unlimited e-mails so I spent maybe around 1000 USD total or more, not sure, for over 1 year of CC/UA. :)

Well I can say it has been an inspiration as I am very ceptic about this type of "dating". Even when I met girls on messenger or hi5, many were very different in real life and lied online so it is not about scamming, just the way people are. Some are nice others aren't so nice.

Anyway I like Ukrainian mentality in woman and my idea is that some woman are unworthy but others are really amazingly nice. I guess its worth the try to find the amazingly nice ones. :)
Now for my experience, I have corresponded first with Olga and she was just amazing, very intelligent imaginative longe e-mails, really nice but one day she found some other guy and told me she had found someone so it would not be sincere to keep corresponding with me. We did keep corresponding a few more times just for friendship until my unlimited mails ran out. A few weeks after she sends me message saying it didn't work out and how huge mistake it was that she felt so good when she talked to me and now she feels like ****. I could feel she was really desperate but unfortunately I was ceptic about her feelings. She tried again on her birthday a few days later asking my reply as her birthday present, etc... but again I did not reply (I had to buy credits!!). After that she left the site. Her profile was closed. I think she was for real and I can say the communication I had with her was really good both for my emotional health and to learn more about what I am looking for and what makes me happy.
OK This was story 1. Olga was #3912.

Olga was my girl in 2006.

Later on I get letters from IRINA S. #1893 who was clearly a ninfo so after some messages and realizing that she was thinking about sex all the time I told her I was not interested. End of the story there. I got a message many months later saying she was leaving the site as she wants to meet real people instead. Also looked genuine girl, just not what I was looking for. hehe

So now we're in start of 2007 January/February.

I had another girl Tatyana Z. #3979 who just looked so hot. Anyway after 10 letters or so I could see she didn't really have much to say. I like woman who communicate, a lot, imaginative, interesting, intelligent. She did not fit my idea so I told her this and it was over.

Then I met Yana M. #6146 and I can say she seems to be a really nice girl, I grown a lot of sympathy for her, she's sweet and I think she really needs someone. The only reason why I decided it wouldn't work it is because she looks like a sad person, not much energy, no positivism. I'm not the kind of guy who matches with that so I think she'll be better of with someone like her. She does deserve a nice guy, I could sense her insecurity and how much she needed attention.
Anyway I told her I was looking for someone more communicative and with a different attitude towards life. She was of course sad and sent me a few more letters then stopped.

By the way, I only correspond with 1 woman at a time because if we do meet someone in real life who we are considering, we usually don't date 2 or 3 woman at the same time, just one. So same goes here, I focus on one at a time to see where it leads.

More recently around July 2007 I did meet the girl I am corresponding with since, exclusively of course.

Nadezhda N. #3867
My experience has been quite good, she matches what I'm looking for in most parts. There are some odd things like missing answers to some of my questions or having to repeat the same question over and over until I get a reply which I guess its normal since it is all done by a translator. I read some people here who posted a profile of her in another site which looks like it was copied from UA? I informed her about this so they can check, looking at the other site it looks like they stole some photos and short quick info from UA, I'm sure Nadja will inform UA of this and they'll handle the issue.
I did get that experience when wanting to book a trip she told me she wanted to meet like 6 months later. At first I was offended as all those "I want to be with you" turned into a "not so fast" but I guess thats normal, later on I got to agree with her, it is also not a very good time for me to go there so I told her around April 2008.
If she is corresponding with other guys, I think she is. We never talked about it but I'll ask about it in the next messages. Maybe we can agree on exclusivity as part of our commitment! ;)
As for the photos, I seen some comments here so you got some "hot" photos from her. From my experience and because I have my brother in Estonia, eastern european woman are way less reserved in showing off their assets. So for most eastern girls, it is no big deal.


Now for my thoughts in general.
As in any business, there are always people involved who are not honest mainly if you have a user-based site there are always users who do stupid things.
To figure out if a lady is real or not I guess you must pay attention to her life story. Some sentences look a lot alike but I think those are written in purpose by the translators to make the letter more shiny, the girl probably doesn't have that much intensity in her feelings. For example:

Girl says: "Sometimes I wish you were here"

Translator writes: "I miss you a lot I can't live without you and am thinking about you all the time, I really wish you were here."

You can see the difference? ;) Am I right? hehehe
I already take that into account when reading her letters and extract only the parts that show how she thinks, behaves, what she likes, etc.

If I really want to catch a scammer it is quite easy. I learned this in my early dating (in real life). To find out if a girl was lying to me at any given time I would ask her the same question 3 times.
One time at start, another time after a few dates, and a third time later on. It has to be a question that can hardly change over time and that is revealing, has to be very specific and unexpected. The idea is that a scammer has to make up an answer quick and she is highly unlikely to remember that answer over time. Has to be about something that you think she would lie about.

Like for example she says she has spoken with her mom about you. Now you have her telling you exactly what they spoke about, be very subtle so she answers naturally without figuring out you are "fishing" her. The 2nd time you must ask "have you ever told your mom about me?" If the answer is no.. well... ;) if the answer is yes, you can fish if the answer matches the same as the 1st time. ;)

I have met many many girls in my lifetime, over 100 in the last 11 years. I had serious relationship with 2 and some one-time fun with 4 or 5. I had tons of opportunities to have more but I decided I was looking for someone serious not just to have fun. Basically thats what UA is supposed to be about.
Now if that is or not like that depends on the girls not on the company! ;)

Also one might have a completely different idea about what "serious relationship" means. Maybe her idea is to have fun first then IF it looks good then go into something more serious. Other girl might not want anything with you until she knows you really well.. etc.

So guys this aint math, situations vary. It is not very hard to figure what is the financial conditions of the girl you talk to and see if those conditions match her lifestyle, etc.

As for my babe she looks very genuine and I like her personality a lot. If we will meet or not we'll see, anything can happen in 3 or 4 months. As plan B I can always go live to Estonia (my brother lives in Tallinn and is married to an Estonian woman) for a few months I will meet a lot of girls there and I'm sure one or two will be nice enough for me. ;) No need for online stuff! :P

Last time I was in Tallinn I had 4 girls coming up to me wanting to have fun! They do love foreigners! lol
And I do love saying no to really beautiful girls! :p

BTW I wont post/send any photos/correspondence from the girls as it is private. I understand if they'd be scammers it would be ok but the issue is that we don't know for sure so it would not be nice to do so. Innocent until proven guilty! ;)

I agree service is a bit strange but have you ever tried Paypal customer service????? It is way worse than UA. :)
Always a different person, their english sucks, they rarely answer what you ask and usually answer with FAQ's. ;)

PeopleSmoks
12-15-2007, 09:59 PM
Hey brunods! First of all, no criticism, just info... it's sceptic not ceptic. Ceptic is close to septic which is where crap goes. Like I said info not criticism. Your English is certainly better than my Portugese!!!

Now an honest sceptic's view of these girls you have written to...

Olga #3912 thought she had found a sugar daddy and got screwed so she ran back to you.

Irina S. #1893 Was a scammer trying to get your other head thinking about sex so she could fleece you when you weren't thinking straight.

Tatyana Z. #3979 Probably never read a single thing you ever wrote. Probably an over worked translator/ letter writer who was beaten for slipping up and losing you.

Yana M. #6146 Looking up the sympathy angle because her last boyfriend drank too much and beat her. She would have asked you to "help" her out when her cat got sick.

As for Nadezhda N. #3867, I hope the best for you! Keep plan B close.

Train returns

ham
12-16-2007, 07:04 AM
quote:Last time I was in Tallinn I had 4 girls coming up to me wanting to have fun! They do love foreigners! lol

i have been in Tallinn for business a few times. While not up & trendy ( AND EXPENSIVE! ) as Riga, it is DEFINITELY NOT one's "poor eastern European country" to go fish for cheap'n'fast sex.
In fact, Estonia had the most advanced IT apparatus & most secure airport years back (well, they built it from scratch from 1999 ).
Estonia is not Kazachstan.
As well, perhaps it is just me, but I NEVER ( I say never ) had women chatting me up out of nowhere, barred prostitutes, go-go girls & similar, but these would chat even my grandfather up, who got alzheimer and is 112yo.

Prometheus
12-16-2007, 10:37 AM
That may have been Tallinn more than a decade ago. I think you can write the Baltics off the "FSU women" list. Admission to the EU, adoption of the Euro, and rampant Westernization, have all changed the nature and the face of the Baltics. Tallinn, with its proximity to Helsinki by ferry, in particular. I made friends with a group of girls from Tallinn in 1999. Today they are in their late 20's. One lives in London, one in Prague, one in Dubai, and one in the US. They all speak 5 languages or more. Their passports do not require visas for entry. In short, they are like any other Western European.

ham
12-16-2007, 04:35 PM
quote:adoption of the Euro

they do not use the Euro I think, but (like Denmark) a fixed exchange rate for their kroon.


quote:That may have been Tallinn more than a decade ago

Baltic states rose pretty quickly to the status of any midcard European country, with the bonus of their small size & economy fit for optimization, without huge inland territories & armies of parasites (like Italy with its southern regions or Russia with its caucasus or USA with their coloured minorities ) to wine & dine in fear of the "nation" [:o)] falling otherwise apart.

I concur that the Baltics are not good for MOB-hunting and the minute number of baltic MOBs advertised through agencies should leave no doubt.

swede
12-16-2007, 06:12 PM
Living not so far from the Baltic states, I've for the last 17 years visited there regularly (mostly Poland, but also Latvia and Lithuania), and I agree with Ham, that
there has been an explosive change. In just two or three years, these countries have in certain areas developed economically up to normal west-european standard, and the mass exodus has been greatly reduced. At least the webb-based variety.

But there is one peculiar aspect of Baltic culture in general. Though they all are very patriotic, quite a few of them desperately want to get away from their own countries and grumble a lot about their local situation. So you still find many Baltic women wanting contact, only through more traditional methods.

Besides the Baltic cultures are a hotch-potch, with very different ethnic, cultural, economic and educational background. In Riga in Latvia you will see flashy cars, fashion clothes and all the other toys of civilisation. But you only have to go to the countryside to see people farming with oxen, scythes etc., and living under rather harsh conditions.
I heard about one family (8-10 people) which was expected to live on wellfare of some 5 euros (app. $7) a month. That was three years ago. So it's not all wine and roses.

ham
12-16-2007, 06:55 PM
quote:I heard about one family (8-10 people) which was expected to live on wellfare of some 5 euros (app. $7) a month. That was three years ago. So it's not all wine and roses.

vast zones in southern Italy are hellholes where garbage piles uncollected up to 2 meters high and houses look like XIX century proletarian slums. Think of ethic minorities neighborhoods in any major city, EG Paris...would one like living THERE?

On the other hand, these girls from the deep countryside are unlikely to roam cyberspace looking for a foreign groom; as said, their lifestyle and finances are giving them something else to think about.
These "other" girls might be a better pond to fish, but one has to be there in person, which is what I advocate.
I have no clue whether it might have been different ten or fifteen years ago; in 1999 (when I first looked into it ) it was not very encouraging, and over time it only got worse.
Overall, I had been disappointed in the "domestic" online scene, with all its braggarts, conpeople, cumpulsive liars, gender-identity bender earlier, but didn't find the MOB scene to be much different.

brunods
12-18-2007, 01:43 PM
Well guys if you only want sex then I don't think paid online dating makes any sense! :)
You can easilly find girls on Hi5 for free, true ninfos.

I can say I am completely tired of sex-only relations and totally lost interest before I even got any interest! ;)

Well I know I am some kind of exception to the regular macho guy and somehow girls go even more crazy when they do find a guy who says "No thanks". :p anyway I dont want to waste my time with useless relations, if I want sex only then its very easy to find girls looking for the same, in any country! Western girls eastern oriental, whatever. :)

UALady's is really not for that. Now about Estonia, they are not like West, really nothing like West! I would give it a mix between Ukraine and Holland. Girls have a good old-fashioned education like in Ukraine but have gone into a open-relation kind of mentality.

And believe me western girls do not go crazy about foreigners. In Tallinn if they see you are foreigner they will show interest in knowing you. Unless you drink too much, dress awful or are rude of course!

When I was there I "saved" a very beautiful lady from a drunk guy trying to chat her up. Got a girl wanting to pay me a drink on the bar as well (in the Hotel where I was staying), 2 girls dancing and flirting with me .. at the same time.. one girl who wanted to get on until I remember to ask where she lived and she replied "I live with my boyfriend" lol.. :)
I was in Estonia for 4 days and only went out 1 night. So... :p

Previous time in Estonia had similar results, in 30 minutes met 2 girls. Anyway I say it is really easy there because my brother lives in Tallinn for many years and got married there. He tells me all about his adventures and when I was there I could see by myself how crazy girls are! But thats more for you guys who want sex, girls in Tallinn want HOT MAN (latino guys) so give them hot and they'll go nuts.

As for me I just want to settle and be happy with 1 nice girl. :P

The idea behind UA is to find our "other half", did you join for that or just to have a girl for sex? :p

I do keep my mind open, considering that minimum wages in Ukraine are around 80 euros, when I pay 150 USD for 2 months unlimited mails I am paying over 1 month minimum wages so it could be significant enough to serve as comission to girls who get "sales" from the man with whom they speak. For example if I'm a good talker I can maybe have 50 guys talking to me, I sent a lot of pictures for all of them, each has to pay for the photos, pay to reply me and pay for whatever else service he requires. I would then not be happy if I had to video conference a guy or have him on the phone and would sound uninteresting.

Now another point of view, the 150 USD go to pay the staff, office, maintenance fees, etc and the company behind it makes a lot of profit (thats the idea or not?). The girls might sound strange on the phone / videoconference because they do not speak english very well or have trouble understanding / expressing.

Imagine if you had to write your letters through an interpreter! It is much easier to miss questions or not? :) I doubt they are that organized that they show the translated letter to the girl, they probably read the letter to the girl when she's there and she tries to reply from memory which accounts for not answering all your questions, she starts talking about her day, etc etc.. this is just a possible scenario.
It would be wise if UALady's could share the lady-side of the process in the website so we can have a better idea.

I will talk to them to see if I can help solve the missinterpretation issues. I have a chinese client and even though she speaks english very well, we have a lot of communication problems. I have noticed this happens when handling people from another culture, what people intented to say is not always what we think they are saying. :)

Now guys did you ever try to meet a girl on chat like IRC or Hi5 and after 1 year chatting and she saying how much she likes you and wants to meet you, you finally try to arrange to meet and she suddenly vanishes or has some strange turn-around / excuses? I had that a lot and I wasnt paying. Why would UA be different? :)

I think there should be some extra points on FAQ about this to help people understand better what is going on. I'll have a chat with UA to try to get things more clear. Believe me if there is something fishy, I will know very easilly. ;)

As for scams, EBay has scammers, does that make EBay a scam?
Any online business with a lot of users have scammers lurking, even online games have them.

BTW it doesn't look nice to "flame" the girls and call them all bitches.

Now behave and stick to the facts!

Prometheus
12-18-2007, 03:07 PM
quote:I'll have a chat with UA to try to get things more clear. Believe me if there is something fishy, I will know very easilly.
"There's a sucker born every minute" -- attributed to P.T. Barnum, American showman (1810 ? 1891).

ham
12-18-2007, 04:01 PM
quote:Now guys did you ever try to meet a girl on chat like IRC or Hi5 and after 1 year chatting and she saying how much she likes you and wants to meet you, you finally try to arrange to meet and she suddenly vanishes or has some strange turn-around / excuses? I had that a lot and I wasnt paying. Why would UA be different? :)

well, in fact the only difference is the COST, with MOB pursuits being exponentially more expensive than just chatting away on ICQ & the like, or buying a conventional membership on some junk dating site like m@tch-com.
I had kind of extensive experience with MANY western dating sites & tools like IRC, ICQ etc, but in the end was so disappointed that I started looking into the MOB idea, but I'd lie if I said I found a substantial improvement.
"Why would the MOB route be any different than fooling around on ICQ or on some domestic junk dating site? ".
EXACTLY.
That is what more men come to realize every day, and that is what brought the decline of the MOB fad.
Some might want to challenge this, but let's not forget years back agency seers read in the stars that we lonely men would shortly secure a FSU teenage bimbo with 1950s moral standards...which clearly never happened...oh yes, I am "the real loser" and that's why it never happened to me; Barney lost $150.000 but he's spineless; Leroy got taken to the cleaners, but he's a control freak...
Compound this with added burdens of travel & expenses deterring men from further commitment.


quote:Now behave and stick to the facts!

You probably think you solved the riddle of WWW/LD dating. I hate to inform you most of us thought that way at some point in time, but no longer do. I suppose every man taken to the cleaners thought he was going to "make it".
Maybe you are more intelligent, handsome or "street wise" than most...maybe not.

ham
12-18-2007, 04:08 PM
quote:"There's a sucker born every minute"

here we say THE MOTHER OF THE IDIOTS IS ALWAYS PREGNANT.

[:o)]

PeopleSmoks
12-18-2007, 11:41 PM
quote:"There's a sucker born every minute"
The question here is just how hard is a person willing to suck??? Or should I say, how much is that person willing to pay???

It seems to me that in the US, what a guy may think of as a "regular" dating site (Match.com) is full of spammers, divorcees with three kids, and even FSU scammers who will list their profile address as being within the US. Ghanans and Nigerians pop up alot too! I know this for a fact because this is how I met my first FSU scammer. Honestly, it was because of some of the stuff I read about the FSU while writing to her (him?), that I started my search for a possible FSU bride in earnest.

Don't even think about the "sex" sites. (Yeah, I took a look... I am man after all!) They're full of "web cam" girls, hookers and... YUP, FSU scammers looking for horny guys thinking with the wrong head!

I've never thought about girls from Estonia and have not researched anything about that country so I can't say anything about the subject. Sounds interesting though. Maybe if I had an extra few grand laying around I'd hop on a plane tomorrow if I was that kind of person. I've heard similar things about Austria and the Czech Republic, but, like brundos, I do have serious hopes of finding that one in a million girl from Ukraine or possibly Russia or another FSU country.

Much of my search as been in Ukraine. Why? I'm not sure. Possibly the fact that the country itself is relatively small as compared to the US, has an apparently large number of girls looking to find husbands abroad (plenty of scammers too) and is easier to cover than a country the size of Russia.

As far as UALadys and other sites like it, the problem I have is the exclusivity they have over the girls a guy might want to correspond with. At this point, it almost doesn't matter how "real" a girl might be, or whether or not she may actually speak, write and understand English, or whatever language is native to the guy who is writing.

Even if the girl doesn't speak your particular language, there are numerous online translation services that offer much lower prices than UALadys and these other similar sites. Even a girl who could possibly write to you on her own, can't because UA won't give her your e-address, just as they won't give you her's.

I haven't made it ther yet, because the scam usually comes as I inform the girl that I will pay for everything for our meeting and will make all the arrangements so she doesn't need to worry about anything. (In her city of course.)

This brings me to a few questions that maybe you guys who have traveled a bit might know the answers to. I've read conflicting artcles about some things...

Most people in Ukraine don't know English... Most younger people in Ukraine (20+ yo to maybe late 30's) know English because it was popular to learn in school...

Ukrainians in general, believe it is okay to scam foreigners...

Life in Ukraine sucks "mad cow dung"... It's the same as everywhere else. Some places are great, some suck.

No one has a phone... Almost everyone has a phone, and even a cell phone (especially the women with the cell phones)...

Well, I think I've shared my personal ignorrance enough for now!!![B)]



Train returns

swede
12-19-2007, 12:37 PM
While not claiming any special expertise in present-day web-dating (because of lack of technical sophistication), I have on the other hand been looking east
since 1989 (mostly Poland, but also other FSU areas). So I do have some experience.

I must point out, that my motives have been rather oldfashioned: Marriage, lasting relationship, decent behaviour. I'm not a sex tourist.

Concerning the scamming datingsites. This is not a new phenomenon. Already when the first wave of polish women seeking western contact started, smart marriage agencies started to use the methods we meet on the net today. At that time on paper and with photocopied pictures, but the cheating was the same.

After loosing a minor amount of money this way I tried a new approach, which maybe can be of interest even today. I got someone to translate a contact ad to polish for me and put that in one of the bigger newspapers in Poland. I got 55 postal answers; with photos and nice, long personal letters.

I'm convinced, that most of these women were, what Ham calls "the other" women. At least I NEVER recieved any requests for money in the app. 150 letters I recieved
while corresponding. And nobody started "loving" me wildly or madly after a few letters.

Well, maybe some of you will say. "That was another time!". But I'm not so sure. As I mentioned in a former reply here, the variety inside the eastern countries is big.
You'll find western consumer-style existing next to a very simplistic living. Both culturally, economically and practically. So it's not surprising, that it's difficult to make generalisations (telephones/not telephones etc). So you can still find a lot of older ways and values.

A few observations about the Baltic people. I'm convinced, that there still exist a big group of "the other" women. But they can be difficult to get contact with. It's absolutely not "done" for a woman to go alone to a bar or even restaurant. You meet women through private contacts, friends, family, your job. But as very few polish people older than 30 speak english or german, it is difficult to get a deeper personal contact with them (knowledge of english is much better in the other three small Baltic contries).

While the Baltic people are open, friendly and extremely social and hospitable, and it is not difficult to get eyecontact, you generally can't approach a woman in the street or shop for closer contact. It's considered rude, and normally only "ladies of negotiable affection" will respond. Men you meet in bars are often charming, good company and you'll be the best of friends. But don't trust any agreements you make with them f.ex. about visiting their homes etc. Next day everything is forgotten. So you don't get close to the average people this way either.

If you succeed in creating contact, always make sure that the person you are talking with is russian (not indigenous), before starting to speak russian. Russians are generally hated in Easteurope. Try any western language.

ham
12-19-2007, 03:37 PM
quote:After loosing a minor amount of money this way I tried a new approach, which maybe can be of interest even today. I got someone to translate a contact ad to polish for me and put that in one of the bigger newspapers in Poland. I got 55 postal answers; with photos and nice, long personal letters.

I'm convinced, that most of these women were, what Ham calls "the other" women. At least I NEVER recieved any requests for money in the app. 150 letters I recieved
while corresponding. And nobody started "loving" me wildly or madly after a few letters.

You were lucky.
I tried the same years ago. I verified ads were published & in fact my ad remained scattered even around the FSU web for years, BUT i got only a handful replies and went nowhere.
Before someone says i made something wrong, my ad was very traditional and I had hired a professional translator to write it in russian.

brunods
12-19-2007, 06:18 PM
OK so we agree on something that not ALL the girls in UALady's are scammers or crap. And yeah if a girl starts loving me madly right away then I don't trust it but if she is very down to earth and keeps being objective about things, thats a different story. So it is up to us to distinguish between these types. :)

Also keep in mind that since we do not know what is going on there exactly, we can only speculate. This means some questions we make might be ignored/censored by the translators and the issue actually has nothing to do with the girl because she is unaware of it.

I agree that she agency should have an option for the girl to give her contact to us, with some downpayment of course since the agency business is having us contact through them. But thats normal for most agencies, they're not giving it for free obviously.

The reason why they don't give the address was loudly shown in this forum when a member had someone go to the girl house talk to her. Its fine when you want to see if a girl is real but you don't need to go knock on her door to find out, there is a video-conference, webcams and phone. You can see the girl on the camera while talking on the phone so it is quite easy to see she's real without invading her private space.
Anyway I guess the person who did this was really pissed and so sure it was all a scam that some boundaries were overlooked in order to make sure.

Again I say some girls might be scams some agency policies might be less decent but generally I think UA should have some feature to give positive/negative feedback for quality purposes.

The agency cannot control if a girl is showing to be someone else to you, different than she really is. Or even lying about things.
The agency probably cares more about the money than quality of service like many companies do. So thats the downside but I rather use UA than other cheaper services who are even worse and more likely to scam or put phoney profiles.

When all the options available are bad you go for the less bad and cant complain about that one because it is actually the best you can have! A bit like politicians in Portugal! hehe

I dont care about UA or their policies I just care if the girl is what I'm looking for and really means it and both me and the girl are aware that we will only know for sure once we are together in person, not over internet. Then you'll be down to earth on both sides, realistic. Set a date that the girl agrees on, in advance. I set the date for April 2008 as I think its the best time for me and for her and of course the weather is better!
If I will go or not that depends on how things go, maybe she'll be afraid in the last minute and make up some excuse not to meet me, thats a risk I will take afterall I am someone she has never really met, I could be a huge disappointment or even a serial killer!

I think the best way to show the girl we're for real is to arrange what we will do once there like meeting their family and friends and so on. That shows not only that you are commited and serious but put her in a "safe" position as well.
For example going out bowling on the first night with her best friend to tag along. She'll feel safe with her best friend around and at the same time can see if we're real or not. Going with this mindset instead of going on defense thinking the worse is a much better bet.

If you expect the worse then you'll probably have it. No blind-folded as well, just be positive and pay attention to the girls feelings.

As for meeting girls on the street, bars, etc. It is a very wrong concept that you can't meet people on the street or anywhere.
A friend of mine who's a psychologist once told me people are not "bugs" and will respond positively if you approach them correctly. So yes you can meet people anywhere, even those beautiful girls who are so tired of all the stupid guys coming on to them. You just need to know HOW to approach. Thats it.
I am not handsome or tall and I do it. I can come up to a table with 5 girls and start a conversation, turn on the spirit, as long as my mind is not set on getting phone numbers or getting anyone to bed. They'll know if I'm not being genuine. Do it for the right reasons and it will work much better.
Then if I do get phone numbers that will be an extra! If I don't its ok, it was nice to meet new people and there's always next time.
I don't know if you saw the movie "Dr. Love" with Will Smith. Learn something from that movie. Leave on the right moment, don't "stalk" until the girls start feeling you should leave. Leave when they want you to stay. That will show them you are not "attacking" so they'll be clueless about your intentions.

This is not all theory, I do it since 2004 and it is really cool. But yeah you need to pay attention, a lot of attention to any minimal sign. Once you get used to it becomes easy. Girls who are used to having guys stalk them need a more careful approach. What I did once was to talk to other people in her group and give her less attention, that made her feel I was not into her and yeah I got the phone number later on! In a napkin from the bar, by her initiative. My mobile ran out of battery when I was gonna type it in. heheh
Turns out she had a boyfriend but was with him for a long time and I think she was getting tired. I went out with her a few times and had dinner as well, just as friends. Hell yeah she was hot and beautiful but not even close to being my type of girl. :)

I guess I'm too demanding which is why I picked UA when I can meet dozens of girls anywhere. Even if I meet hundreds its unlikely I'll find the one I'm looking for... its those values from some Ukrainian woman that I miss around here. :)

Another really good way to start conversation in a bar that doesn't have very loud music is to set a topic. Tell them I was discussing this subject with my best friend and SHE thinks ....., we are now researching about the subject so I'd like to hear your oppinion about it. People like to give their oppinion and the situation just given is very positive since you said "SHE" not "HE".

Focus = subject & girl best friend (possible future girlfriend)
Girl(s) feel safe & unlikely will think you're hitting on her/them so she/they cooperate(s)

You don't have a subject? Find one. Talk to one of your girl friends and find out something interesting to research about. :p

I guess people lack imagination to do this and other things so they get the wrong impression that other people are unaproachable and the only approachable women are paid ones. :)

I once did a demo for a friend of mine who didn't believe me when I said it is easy to meet girls. Met about 7 or 8 girls that night, got one phone number and he'll never doubt me again. :P

A good book for you to read "How to Read Body Language". I bought it somewhere and it improved my skills on the subject even though some things I already figured out naturally, others were useful to know.
It is useful both for business and social relations so I recommend it completely! :)

OK enough talk I must get back to work now!

swede
12-19-2007, 06:51 PM
OK, Ham. So much for my idea. Maybe things have changed a lot since then (18 years), but my impression of "normal" people in Poland is, that it hasn't changed that much.
You still find functional polish/polish relationships with the man 15-25 years older than the woman; women DO seem to be the family-oriented types, the scammers pretend to be (though there's a lot of quarreling going on in polish families). This was only examples of traditionalism. Not necessarily all my criterias.

One explanation could be, that the russians (you wrote in russian) in my experience are the absolutely worst of the crowd. Like many net-daters I've had contact with a lot of women of different nationalities, and as in normal life, there's been ups and downs. But one thing is for sure, almost all my russian contacts have been unreliable, sullen and arrogant. I wouldn't touch a russian woman, even if I was paid.

"The others" are to be found outside the russian group (this is ofcourse a very coarse generalisation), and for their hate of anything russian, they probably wouldn't react to
a contact ad, if it was written in russian.

swede
12-19-2007, 07:00 PM
Brunods, am I correct in guessing, that your real-life experience in
the east has been restricted to Estonia?

Do not take this as criticism, but many of the web-girls are VERY different in real life, compared to the sweet-talking they produce in
mails.

Prometheus
12-19-2007, 09:03 PM
Swede,

You have hit the nail on the head. The truth that most of the guys reading here do not wish to accept is there are NO HONEST FSU ROMANCE SITES ON THE WORLD WIDE WEB.

Honest meaning that both the woman correspondent, and her translator, are legitimate. And why is that? These websites have one goal and one goal only... to initiate and maintain paid corresondence in perpetuity!

So there may be some real women other there who get taken, but based on the number of horror stories posted here, those honest women run the first time they encounter one of the Western Lotharios who venture east for a visit. Why? Because the agency/interpreters use fake photos, fake profiles, and fake dialogue to get their customers ordering emails, letters, language lessons, perfumes, flowers, videos and photos. It is insanity.

I have lurked here for a year just to warn off any man willing to listen. If you aren't one of those, then hey... you can't say you haven't been warned. It takes a wise man to learn from his own mistakes, but it takes a genius to learn from the mistakes of others.

The only thing you'll lose by giving money to one of these sites is your money, your dignity, and your common sense.

ham
12-20-2007, 07:13 AM
quote:For example going out bowling on the first night with her best friend to tag along. She'll feel safe with her best friend around and at the same time can see if we're real or not. Going with this mindset instead of going on defense thinking the worse is a much better bet.

beware that many good-time-girls use that as a way to have you pay FOR TWO, shopping sprees included, by design.


quote:It is a very wrong concept that you can't meet people on the street or anywhere.
A friend of mine who's a psychologist once told me people are not "bugs" and will respond positively if you approach them correctly. So yes you can meet people anywhere, even those beautiful girls who are so tired of all the stupid guys coming on to them. You just need to know HOW to approach.

well, I tend to believe all this stuff about mesmerizing women, about self-esteem machos to be hogwash. Drive a big car, show around platinum credit cards and you'll see how "magnetic" your personality becomes ( first-hand experience here ).
Sure, there is a whole underworld made of self-help, autohypnosis tapes and books about chatting women up the "right" way (as you say, lots of "ifs and buts" )...well, I rank them next to trim-my-waist and grow-me-hair pills, or other gimmick to "learn japanese perfectly in 2 months" or "become an A level student with our proprietary mnemonics".
I have a friend who (thinks) he is master at chatting women up...9/10 times he ends up with mercenaries, women seeking a sponsor and drunk housewives who must hurry to be back in time for hubby to come home.
Are these women interested in what, ultimately?
Not discussing particle physics or chinese philosophy or whatever, so what's left? Finding a good catch (barred random sex encounters, out of which you won't get much anyways because she has a husband to return to & if she's cheating on him, she'll cheat on you, too ).


quote:I guess I'm too demanding which is why I picked UA when I can meet dozens of girls anywhere.

that is what I was wondering.
If I had this mesmerizing ability, I wouldn't think of the MOB route.
Same as if i had millions in the bank or worked a glamour job, I wouldn't very likely lack "attention from the opposite sex" (whatever that might be).
If you think women there are not merely from another country, but common rules still apply, you are mistaken...badly mistaken. We all believed in this "traditional housewife 1950s standards " at some point or another; the fact we no longer do should tell something.

As i said, you think you solved the riddle of dating: good for you. Many thought they did, but changed opinion.

swede
12-20-2007, 10:20 AM
Ham, that was a good summary, and I would like to follow it up.

In my opinion, humans still react very much like herd animals, and one of the basics in a herd is, that you try to find your hierachial level: The alpha male, the "alluring" female etc. It's all about your status. In the human sphere status is measured according to various valuesystems. F.ex. you COULD chat up a girl in the 1960-70'ties in certain subcultures by talking about quantum physics or asian philosophy, because that had status at that time. In the discoteque subculture you got status by being "cool": "I care less about you, than you do about me. So I'm stronger".

But nowadays, and especially in FSU, money and power seem to be the main goal. An example: A few years ago I was in Latvia on a motorbike holiday. My bike is a Goldwing, big, flashy, glittery like a christmastree, and people usually go: Oooo and Eeeee, when they see it. (That's not my reason for having it, I just like it). But in Latvia
the women just took one look, had me placed economically ("Just another $7000 bike, not worth it") and ignored me. I could almost hear their inner accountant working.

I do NOT use the bike for chatting up women, but it's a good "conversation piece" or like a domesticated pet: ....."Nice doggie". Just for a nice little social chat. No such in Latvia (which by the way has an unproportionately big russian minority). As soon as I was evaluated and found lacking, I was a non-person.

So anybody wanting to give it a try, take your favourite contact method with you and start. These women will look through you in a few moments, and if there's no hard cash
behind all your new-age technique efforts, you'll be dumped. Just like that.

redprince
12-20-2007, 11:56 AM
Brunods,
Just to let you know i have been writing to #3867 since April
this year- a correspondence which she started.Planned to see her in September past and 2 weeks before i was due to go she was "unavailable" citing urgent business in Kiev?Spoke to her on phone
via translator (it was her i know her voice from the video) and she claims to still want to see me-in March.She has sent me 65 photos
so far-sounds familiar.I have stopped downloading them-enough is enough.Her letters stack up and i have no reason other than her sudden unavailability in September to doubt her but i am not going to Poltava just to see her.Will travel with a friend and will visit another Ukrainian girl who is a friend and not connected to UA lADYS.

You have no chance of exclusivity here unless she decides you are the man for her.Personally i am in two minds about travelling there but UA ladys have my money and what chance of getting a refund?None and slim!!

No doubt she sends her "soft kisses" to you and many others too.Doesnt make her a bad person but just be aware you are likely (like me) to be one of many.

redprince

ham
12-20-2007, 12:44 PM
quote: So anybody wanting to give it a try, take your favourite contact method with you and start. These women will look through you in a few moments, and if there's no hard cash
behind all your new-age technique efforts, you'll be dumped. Just like that.

exactly.
I am [u]not</u>saying that there are no men with
1 a ten cents face
2 a five cents body
3 look like they took a shower last time under Nixon
4 ironed their clothes last time under Brezhnev
5 slept last night under a bridge
and still manage to get "hot" women (by some standard).
They exist...a few of them only, like a Frenchman exists who calculates roots of 2 hundreds digits numbers in seconds by sheer mental ability...
Women are wise, in a higher proportion than men.
If a man thinks he can fool them, he's in for a rude awakening.
I am not saying there are not silly or gullible women, but the chance of meeting one are minimal, compared to the chance of any man being made a fool by a woman.
You might think of the (supposedly) wealthy man who goes on a MOB tour, beds many beauty queens hinting at a marriage or sponsorship he knows he's unwilling to commit himself to...for one of them you get at least ten or twenty suckers wiring the last dime from their retirement fund or disability cheque so that "her uncle at the travel agency can procure her visa"; as well, there is the celebrity who thought he was just porking his next doll, and now got himself a lawsuit.

Self-help "personality" books and other auto hypnosis gimmick have been around for decades, same as grow-me-hair tonics.
Most will agree that Sean Connery playing James Bond in the 1960s was on top of what women might want, Connery being a former professional soccer player, bodybuilding and beauty contestant.
Now, how many do know Connery was balding already, and told to wear hair pieces for his James Bond?
If hair tonics worked, don't we think Connery would have used them to strengthen his millionaire acting career?


quote: and 2 weeks before i was due to go she was "unavailable" citing urgent business in Kiev

very common.
Probably a ringer.
They count on the vast majority of men never making a visit; when the 5% actually does, either dates are set up in a hurry, or excuses are found.

brunods
12-20-2007, 07:26 PM
When I meant meeting woman on the street or anywhere I meant meeting GOOD woman not cash-hungry ones! Come you can you distinguish those or not?

Its easy to figure out when a woman is decent and when she's not so we can quickly dismiss the crap.

And obviously you're not picking drunk or amazon woman. I am a very decent guy and I don't get along with dumb women, I don't like those who drink I dont like those who smoke, etc. So this leaves me a very restrict space of intelligent decent smart women which have nothing to do with cash-hungry women. Some are intelligent and smart but still looking for guys with money.
Now the thing about that is... aren't we looking for nice looking women?? Intelligent? Smart? And if they have a lot of cash wouldn't we like that?? I would!
So why wouldn't they find that attractive as well?

I think the question here is to meet normal women not pub-type of girls who are worthless. For this you pick where you meet them, take a good look before you actually start talking and make sure she looks like someone decent before you engage.
I met once a woman who liked to drink and smoke, it was the shortest 30 minutes ever. :) heheh
I do go out sometimes with women who are just beautiful but I know all they want is me to pay for dinner and try to get gifts. When a girl says "Will you offer me this?" I just reply immediately "No.". If she keeps doing it I tell her I think we shouldn't go out anymore and end of the story. Simple enough I think. :)

Now for prince, I see you have been speaking to Nadja since April which is fine. We don't have any exclusivity deal neither she says she loves me and I'm the only one. I am one guy that she would like to meet and that she finds interesting enough to consider. You are probably another one I don't know. About her being busy in Kiev that was true, I remember in the last 2-4 months she has been really busy and sometimes wouldn't write for a few days as she was in Kiev. They can't write from other cities seems they always have to go to their local agency...
I also think these girls want to find their "prince" but they don't take it THAT seriously before they actually meet you, if they do.
I know because even though I like her a lot, I'm not "engaged" and if I do find someone I like here or somewhere else I won't say no. :)
This means I just think the probability of we matching is always low due to several factors like she not speaking english, her finding another guy or not being real about some things, etc. Now for the rest I am not surprised. She has a lot of photos she has to send them to the guys she speaks to I guess. For example I paid 2 months unlimited, if she wasn't for real I would expect her to show less interest after the payment but she keeps writting everyday. I do think that she does not write only to me, I always had that impression. But she does reply to the subject I am talking about, its not a generic reply. And she's good!! Very good at it! :P

For me even if this goes nowhere, I will be satisfied as my experience with her helps me understand better what I like and dislike, etc. If she vanishes tomorrow, bad luck. I don't really care that much anyway. :P
I will only care when I do really meet her for real and have a commitment, until then I don't trust anything but my own instinct. :)

Prince, have you ever met girls on IRC or Hi5 and tried to arrange to meet? :) What did they reply?
I can say that the most common answer for me was "I can't because" - work, school, family issues
I have a girl I met years ago and she adores me, we've spoken on the phone even but we never met in person. We arranged it a few times but she always comes up with a last minute excuse not to meet me. No agency involved, I met her years ago on IRC and now we speak on MSN only. I've seen her on webcam even.
I am not interested in her but assuming I was, I could not think it had something to do with agency or money. So the reason is something else. Sounds familiar? :)
Remember that UALady's is the same as meeting girls from IRC/MSN, they will have the same excuses. The only difference is that you actually get talking time and if you get lucky enough you'll really meet them. I think I will not go meet her until I feel she really wants me to go, I dont want to waste money and my time if I think the odds are against me. :) Right now I think the odds are against me. Lets see what I think in a month or two. ;)

Don't get me wrong, I am far from stupid or blind. I am expert in all kinds of scams, I even know how they work internally so its very easy for me to see how it might work. As for UA the company itself is OK the only scam can be some ladies who join and some staff who are less decent. Like any franchising you get franchisees who do it right and others only do crap and trick customers. :) This is no different than the regular franchising. Like Remax, some agencies are good others are really bad, it depends on the management and mostly on the staff working there.

Ah about the method of work. When we write the ladies, sometimes the translator leaves a written translator and other times does a voice recording so the girl has to answer more from memory on those cases. The translators many times find our terms difficult to translate so they ommit or avoid translating some parts. :)
Some of my letters I make them complex enough to give headake to the translator and I can see that by the reply missing the complex parts! ;) hehe
So as you can see, it isn't necessarily the girl who doesn't want to reply to your questions or gives different answers. There's a translation involved that might not be very good. There might be a translation in written or in voice, in voice the girl has to reply from memory which makes it less reliable to remember all your questions so she will tend to write more about her stuff and less about what you wrote. I think you can see this happening sometimes but not always.

;)

Now if I do ask Nadja for exclusivity I think one of her likely answers would be that I will only get exclusivity after we meet if we like each other because right now we haven't even met so even though she likes me a lot it is hard to say if its going to work and she wants to get the chance to meet more people meanwhile obviously. Just like she can stop writing, I could also stop writting so we both have that "risk".

The difference is that we pay to write and they dont. If you had free mails to every girl, how many would you write to????? I think you get the point. :P

The site actually favours the ladies since the men are more likely to write only to one girl at a time since it would be expensive some other way. This makes it more likely the man is serious about that girl while the girl being able to write for free is more likely to write to many men which means she is less focused on you specifically.
Unless you do get her to accept exclusivity then you can easilly see if she's for real.
Many would lie saying yes you are the only one but you aren't really. In my non-paid internet meetings most girls ended up not being what they said they were and not being honest in real life.

Here's how you spot a girl who is REALLY honest:

She DOES tell you NO.
She is very objective and realistic and will say what she really thinks. You can see that by identifying if she says things that go against what you'd like her to say ideally. Girls who are not honest tell you what you want to hear thus you have that "too good to be true" feeling.

Now I think your expectations are too high about the girls:

You are not the center of the girl life even though it sounds like it in the fairy tale letters. Never think you are THAT important and irreplaceable to the girl. Before she ever meets you, you are a stranger, a possible serial killer. She will be afraid of what might come and possibly delay or even avoid to meet you. It is hard to get her to have the right feeling.

She is not the problem, YOU are the problem. Blaming others for our inability to cope is very common. If your staff doesn't perform well, who chose them? It was you. So the mistake was yours. Stop complaining.

Did UALady's join you or did you join them? Did your UA-girl dump you suddenly? So what? Didn't you pick to talk to that beautiful young girl who said everything you wanted to hear? Didn't you expect a guarantee that the girl would REALLY meet you? Did you expect UALady's to guarantee that the girl will fall inlove with you and meet you or even that she will not be able to talk to 50 guys at the same time? Don't they actually encourage you to meet MORE than one girl at a time (when you go there)?? Why would they do that? So??? :)
Basically UA tells you not to focus on one lady only and meet more than one when you go there. They know just as well as I know that it is unlikely you'll get it right on the first shot. It can happen but it is highly unlikely. :)

No guarantees here, we're solo on this. We can get happy we can get nothing, there's no sure thing.

We can agree that the only advantage of UA is that some of these girls are serious about meeting their guy, that gives us some chance but doesn't guarantee anything. :)

As for a question posted here for me, besides Estonia I have not been on other Eastern European countries so yes when I speak about eastern mentality I am speaking more based on the girls I've met from Estonia and Lithania. Ukraine seems to have a similar mentality in some parts.

BTW I make sure the girl knows I am not swimming in cash at all. I tell her I can't afford the trip right now which is true actually, am recovering from 3-4 bad business months and its going much better now. :)

Prometheus
12-20-2007, 08:58 PM
brunods... to anyone with experience in this area, you are showing the classic symptoms of denial.


quote:Its easy to figure out when a woman is decent and when she's not so we can quickly dismiss the crap.
Say's who?

quote:For example I paid 2 months unlimited, if she wasn't for real I would expect her to show less interest after the payment but she keeps writting everyday.

Whoooo Hooooo! Now there's proof of legitimacy if I ever saw it! I guess they have no interest in getting two more months, and two more after that!

quote:I am far from stupid or blind. I am expert in all kinds of scams, I even know how they work internally so its very easy for me to see how it might work. As for UA the company itself is OK the only scam can be some ladies who join and some staff who are less decent.
I suggest you read about the criminal past of UA's owners and founders before declaring it a "good" company. Enron was a "good" company too.

quote:BTW I make sure the girl knows I am not swimming in cash at all. I tell her I can't afford the trip right now which is true actually, am recovering from 3-4 bad business months and its going much better now.
I see much happiness in your future with your FSU MOB...
[8D]

PeopleSmoks
12-20-2007, 09:26 PM
quote:Its easy to figure out when a woman is decent and when she's not so we can quickly dismiss the crap.

If this were truly the case, there would be no scam artists. Not everyone is able to see through the bullsh!t so easily. Sure, if a girl walks up to you at a bar, sticks her tongue in your ear, pulls her skirt up and starts playing with herself... she's probably trouble. But scammers, at least the ones with more than half a brain, whether they be on the internet or a girl on the street, rarely will present themselves in this manner.

quote:My bike is a Goldwing, big, flashy, glittery like a christmastree, and people usually go: Oooo and Eeeee, when they see it. (That's not my reason for having it, I just like it). But in Latvia
the women just took one look, had me placed economically ("Just another $7000 bike, not worth it") and ignored me. I could almost hear their inner accountant working.

swede, buy a Harley! My bike is 38 yo, rusted spokes and leaks oil and it's still worth about $6,000 to $7,000. Although, it's usually the trashier b!itches that come running, they don't care how much money I have. Granted, I have grown somewhat tired of these girls, but at least they're honest?????????? Oh!!! That's right, my X was one of these girls!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So, I continue to look for that one in a million girl in the FSU. Once again, there is one who wants to meet me. So far, she has agreed to everything except the first date which I proposed to her, which has already passed.

She's a bit younger (25 yo) than I realistically was searching for (28 -35), but seems to be "real". The reason she gave for not being able to meet just last week was that her studing for exams was taking up too much of her time and would not be able to spend time with me. She said my presence now, would be too much of a distraction.

Again, I admit that I have never been to Ukraine as all previous correspondence resulted in the good ole money request, and I get my knowledge from internet articles and reading what you guys write. I have read that Ukrainian girls take their education VERY seriously. In fact, I read that it is a waste of time to write to a girl with 2 or 3 years left to graduate, as she will probably not seriously consider leaving school for "some guy she met on the internet" unless you want to wait for her? This girl is to graduate this year and that was the only reason I continued writing to her.

Because of this, I agreed that we will meet this March because her exams will be done as well as any make up exams. Any input???

Unlike the girl mentioned, "my girl" has told me that I am the only one she writes to. I haven't seen her profile on any site including UALadys in over 3 months. (We've been writing for four months.)I will say that I am a "free" member on a number of sites. I actually do this to monitor for her profile to pop up. So far it hasn't. What do you guys think??? Should I go for it??? I'm ready to buy the plane ticket right after X-mas.[:I]

Train returns

ham
12-20-2007, 09:37 PM
quote: Did UALady's join you or did you join them? Did your UA-girl dump you suddenly? So what? Didn't you pick to talk to that beautiful young girl who said everything you wanted to hear? Didn't you expect a guarantee that the girl would REALLY meet you? Did you expect UALady's to guarantee that the girl will fall inlove with you and meet you or even that she will not be able to talk to 50 guys at the same time? Don't they actually encourage you to meet MORE than one girl at a time (when you go there)?? Why would they do that? So??? :)

well..."cold feet" or unexpected accidents can happen, but often ( very often ) they are used as alibi, which postulates a fraudulent attitude.
Well, it is true my house might have burnt, but if that is just a short-cut to postpone or cancel a meeting, it's fraud.
Or it might just be a "small white lie", but men must realize they are wasting their hard earnt cash on THAT.

I disagree on one simple fact: agencies do claim to be able to control the dating game, at least to a telling extent. Otherwise men would not waste fortunes with them, and just keep fooling over ICQ & IRC to have fifteen years old boys pull pranks on them behind stolen pictures of scantly clad models.
It is equally true that many agencies issue claims, albeit setting them off in small print.
If there were no claims/promises made -as you suggest- most among the catchiest agencies would be gone...MARRY A MODEL, BLONDE VENUS FOR YOU etc.
Now for ages agencies have made outrageous claims, such as that a man might be living off welfare YET still be able to get himself a beauty queen with 1950s moral standards, because tap water and a washer/drier will seem to her a strong improvement from her life of deep-space-cold winters, fourth world health care, and slaving away for pennies.
Now do WE REALLY believe such claims to be truthful?
Or that you can be 63yo but a 19yo girl will be "truly" interested in you as "their enigmatic russian soul" perceives much old-er- men to make better husbands?
Not only are they HIGHLY MISLEADING-TO-FRAUDULENT, but -if no promise was meant- why the claim to start with?
A man elsewhere claimed to have wasted $12.000 from his savings on a scammer whose PREMIUM profile/account he had bought for $500 from the Elena P. franchise, because they say that he'd get better results going that way, showing he was not cheap.
Isn't that a claim?

PeopleSmoks
12-20-2007, 10:29 PM
quote:Now for ages agencies have made outrageous claims, such as that a man might be living off welfare YET still be able to get himself a beauty queen with 1950s moral standards, because tap water and a washer/drier will seem to her a strong improvement from her life of deep-space-cold winters, fourth world health care, and slaving away for pennies.
Now do WE REALLY believe such claims to be truthful?

I have found this to be something that seperates "some" of the scammers. I am NOT rich, but my search is sincere. I DO have the money to get on a plane tomorrow, although work obligations would prevent that. The thing is that many scammers DON'T want to meet you.

The guy who is scraping $$$$$$$$ is in the wrong market. If you meet a "real" girl but have no money at all, what do you do next? Do you think this FSU beauty is going to say to herself, "Oh boy! That's the man for me!?!" Maybe a scammer might think that, because he or she can soak the stupid sap a little at a time and eat off his welfare check.

Even an average guy who is working every day like me is pushing it unless he is truly serious and willing to save a few bucks for this stuff. I have enough to make a trip over. I have enough to pay for a legitimate visa/passport (from a government agency, not the travel agency that can "make" a visa/passport for a single FSU girl to the US in a week) and her round trip ticket to the US and back home. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a round trip ticket for her to come here is required, as I understand, by the US government for the purpose of to assuring that the girl will not try to imigrate, and by any agency that she may be with to assure that she will not be "trapped" as the Russian mob and white slavery are very real.

I've found that many scammers "panic" when you tell them you want to fly to meet them and make stupid mistakes like saying it is a Russian tradition for the girl to fly 8,000 km to a foreign country to meet the man's family first, and of course she needed me to send her money for this??? I laughed my ass off at that one.

quote:A man elsewhere claimed to have wasted $12.000 from his savings on a scammer whose PREMIUM profile/account he had bought for $500 from the Elena P. franchise, because they say that he'd get better results going that way, showing he was not cheap.
Isn't that a claim?

Sorry, but that guy was a stupid jackass! Did he ever meet this girl? How long did it take him to blow $12,000? [xx(]

Train returns

swede
12-21-2007, 12:38 AM
Brunods,

you certainly deserve to meet an ukrainian (russian) woman.

ham
12-21-2007, 05:41 AM
quote: I have read that Ukrainian girls take their education VERY seriously. In fact, I read that it is a waste of time to write to a girl with 2 or 3 years left to graduate, as she will probably not seriously consider leaving school for "some guy she met on the internet" unless you want to wait for her? This girl is to graduate this year and that was the only reason I continued writing to her.


You have to better be sure your FSU love queen [u]IS</u> past her school days & [u]definitely</u>done with her education, unless you feel like acquiring a step-daughter who'll spend most of her time at school (meeting "cute boys" her age, perhaps ) while you foot the bills worth tens of thousands.
Some men might think that meanwhile she'll be there and having sex with them, but expect despondency and "headaches" to increase; besides, she's just trading off...at home she would have very regular (more regular than she'll ever have with any western Barney ) careless sex with drunk Oleg and unwashed Igor, so no big deal, as Claudia Cardinale said in the masterpiece " once upon a time in the west", she would take a hot bath and come out clean.
And I say drunk Oleg & unwashed Igor because if she had a chance to trap a decent wealthy "new russian", she'd forget about lovesick westerner dinosaurs at once.

Goddiejens
12-21-2007, 07:45 AM
For my opinion, Russian and Ukrainian young ladies like to get in contact with guys from Western countries because this is an option for them to leave their country, see the world and have a save life for herselves and the families they want to build up in future. So it might well be that such young ladies develope a bit the attitude of arrogant princesses whenever a Russian or Ukrainian boy wants to catch them, they simply orient themselves to have a foreigner as partner for life and better future. I would not mean that this is bad. I think that it is reasonable and normal that a normal lady who takes the risk to have to care of a baby in case of accepting sex with a man ... such lady looks for social safety in future and a good perspective.

On the other hand, these ladies know too good that some Western guys only think to have a cheap sex affair with them. So it is also normal and reasonable that they try to find out if such guy is really interested in finding the second half for a long term relationship and not only his adventure for a week in Ukraine or Russia.

The main problem is the language. Having sex with a girl without knowing her language is possible, but this is not what these ladies look for. Or the western guy speaks at least a little Russian, or the lady speaks at least a little English. Romantic atmosphere with translator is not possible for my opinion.

And the age question: What people from 18 years old voluntarily do with each other is up to them!

There are many girls who have good experience with boys in sex so that they find easily the captain of their heart just in the neighbourhood. There are also many girls who are frustrated after first not so good sex affairs with boys so that they might prefer an older "experienced" "more serious" guy because they expect to find their own perspective in such guy.

And finally, any relationship can fail!!! This is totally independent of age issues... .

Goddiejens

ham
12-21-2007, 12:46 PM
quote: And the age question: What people from 18 years old voluntarily do with each other is up to them!

well, so much for scammers then: the money is the man's, and he decides what to do with his money; does he feel inclined to send it to a complete stranger to "save her honor" (while in reality it is hairy Oleg behind stolen pics )? Fine; i won't cry myself asleep over this.
Men deserve a fair forewarning...whether they heed it or not, it's another matter.
People mostly believe what they WANT to believe, for some reason; whether that is objective truth or a delusion is a completely different story.

PeopleSmoks
12-21-2007, 04:55 PM
quote:For my opinion, Russian and Ukrainian young ladies like to get in contact with guys from Western countries because this is an option for them to leave their country, see the world and have a save life for herselves and the families they want to build up in future.
I question whether this is AS true as we are all led to believe? Certainly right after the break up of the USSR, life sucked hard and people now had the opportunity to leave. (Both men and women) But that was awhile ago. I've heard the FSU is like many growing regions. Some areas and people are doing well, some aren't.

Just how bad is it really? And just how many of these slavic beauties are seriously looking to make such a big change in their lives as to move 8,000+ km from their homes and families?

quote:There are many girls who have good experience with boys in sex so that they find easily the captain of their heart just in the neighbourhood. There are also many girls who are frustrated after first not so good sex affairs with boys so that they might prefer an older "experienced" "more serious" guy because they expect to find their own perspective in such guy.
In the letters I've received, sex is usually only a topic exploited by scammers hoping to get a guy thinking with his small head, accompanied by some of the pics I've posted on my personal site. Some girls talk about the age difference as being more along the lines of social and/ or life experience and ecoconomic stabilty. (not necessarily wealth) Also they talk about "slightly" older men knowing what they want and being passed the desires to play the field so much. Granted, some scammers have also gone this route regarding the subject. They're often travel scammers who will "invest" the time of month long correspondence trying to get the $1,500 for visa/passport/airfare, as opposed to translation scammers who go for the steady $100 or a month... (like UALadys?). As most girls I have written to are younger than me, I always ask this question of age to see what their answer is. If she talks about sex... BIG RED FLAG!!!

But for me, I am honestly looking to find a wife, not a daughter!

quote:You have to better be sure your FSU love queen IS past her school days & definitelydone with her education, unless you feel like acquiring a step-daughter who'll spend most of her time at school (meeting "cute boys" her age, perhaps ) while you foot the bills worth tens of thousands.

As I said, I had heard that these girls are incredibly serious about school. The fact that the girl I plan to visit graduates this year is the only reason I have continued to correspond with her with serious intentions and hopes. Had she told me she would graduate in two or three years, I might have balked.

Train returns

swede
12-21-2007, 06:58 PM
May all the saints save us from low-grade moral philosophy. Mutual consent, yes ofcourse. But one fundamental condition exists in this situation. That all involved parts have given correct and honest information first. Otherwise it's called fraud.

That anybody can be so naive as to accept the cencorship and fees practised by some agencies is beyond my understanding. But that's their business.

It's what happens later, I consider criminal. It seems to me, that the present discussion is about, whether all of these women exist at all. That's only the first hurdle, and the responsibility must be the agency's.

The next problem is these women's need of visas, medical care, english courses, new shoes or laptopcomputers (I was once exposed to that one).

When you have passed that, the woman of your deepest desires suddenly is unavailable for a personal meeting. ......OK, finally you meet someone, it seems to function, you are presented to friends and family, and according to our dating- and personal psychology specialist Brunods, everything is honky dory. You can feel safe now.

But where do you think, the money you possibly give to your beloved goes? Partly to her family ofcourse, and they certainly don't want to cut the branch, the are sitting on.
And her friends? They are as often as not involved in some scamming activities themselves. My own firsthand experience (I was in Ukraine): My "fiancee" in Ukraine had two friends as backup. One had simultaneous four EXCLUSIVE arrangements with western gentlemen, the other worked in an agency, where one client/scammer asked (with translationhelp) for the modest amount of $1000 a month from an american guy, she never had met. Telling him, that this was an absolute minimum for survival in Ukraine. The fool paid, by the help of the agency.

Then you maybe get engaged and later married. You think this is a guarantee? You know the divorce rate, both inside and outside FSU with a russian as one part?
Well, maybe you stay married, because your FSU darling consider it practical to have a base, from where she can continue her scamming business. Possibly on the family computer (this is one of several authentic cases).

By now you are hopping mad, and you get involved in anti-scamming activity. What happens? You are called a lot of rather unpleasant things like sextourist, looser, rejected
(SHE left you, because you are worthless etc), "people" send insane posts to various forums using your name, etc etc. (own experience).

You think we're finished now? You start your own antiscam branch, qualitystuff, with really experienced and technically grounded people, own protected website etc.
The day after your site is opened it crashes from hacking, and later the owner is threatened personally (I have also firsthand information about this situation).

For all you desk-types with a wonderful talent for making hypotheses.... I have dated in FSU for 18 years, lived there for close to two years, my wife is from there. Ofcourse this doesn't count as much as all your more or less qualified guesses, but one does as well as one can.

Good hunting, boys.

ham
12-21-2007, 08:09 PM
quote: As I said, I had heard that these girls are incredibly serious about school. The fact that the girl I plan to visit graduates this year is the only reason I have continued to correspond with her with serious intentions and hopes. Had she told me she would graduate in two or three years, I might have balked.

i suggest you discuss the issue thoroughly.
Most FSU qualifications are worthless in the west (hell, many western qualifications are worthless in other western countries ); many require additional schooling and training.
A man elsewhere claimed he had met a 30yo FSUW who claimed to be a registered nurse.
Now you'd think a 30yo woman with a job to be done with her studies, but she soon raised the issue of further studies with her cyber-romeo.
There is nothing implicitly good or implicitly bad about sponsoring one's online love queen through studies, but most men underestimate the costs (say $20 to 30.000 for the cheapest US arts/humanities accredited ONLINE degree. For traditional brick&mortar schools expect overall expenses to skyrocket ) and fail to realize that funding her degree by no means increases one's chances of "keeping her forever"; I think rather the opposite and I'm not interested in acquiring a step-daughter, but that is my problem.
Also be wary that many women might play foul about it telling you they do not feel the need to go to school, but once they land abroad they are bitten by the school bug and start nagging you for it.
If that is not your thing, make absolutely sure she understands your uncompromising stance.
Most say I am a "monster" for thinking like that, but if i felt like contributing to a charity, I would visit a real orphanage and donate to truly needy people.

PeopleSmoks
12-21-2007, 09:11 PM
quote:It seems to me, that the present discussion is about, whether all of these women exist at all.
The question isn't about the existence of FSU women who are legitimately looking for western husbands. The question is, finding them through the mine field of scam artists that plague the whole FSU dating network?

quote:For all you desk-types with a wonderful talent for making hypotheses.... I have dated in FSU for 18 years, lived there for close to two years, my wife is from there. Ofcourse this doesn't count as much as all your more or less qualified guesses, but one does as well as one can.

So swede, you also mentioned a "fiance". Being in quotes, I imagine it's not the same girl you're married to now? What happened to her? So having "dated" in the FSU for 18 years, how many of these girls did you actually meet and go out with? How many did you date online, never met but realized they were scammers? Or maybe, you or the girl decided you weren't a good match?

You married an FSU girl, so how did you two meet? I doubt it was through UALadys? Or was it??? Are you two happy? I'm not busting your stones here! These are legitimate questions from a guy who is seriously writing to a girl, to a guy who has apparently been there and done that.

quote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As I said, I had heard that these girls are incredibly serious about school. The fact that the girl I plan to visit graduates this year is the only reason I have continued to correspond with her with serious intentions and hopes. Had she told me she would graduate in two or three years, I might have balked.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i suggest you discuss the issue thoroughly.


That we have, or at least are in the process of doing so. My last letter to her was basically about whether she fully understands how drastic of a change it will be in her life to come to the US. The fact that it will be very hard for her to find a job in her field of study is also something I told her. I have told her that I don't expect her to go get a menial job at McDonald's and that I will support her. For me, work is optional for my girl. It always has been. As her English isn't exactly fluent, I also told her I will pay for her further education in English. She hasn't commented about taking a $20,000 potery 101 course... yet.

Train returns

swede
12-21-2007, 10:53 PM
Hi PeopleSmoks,

it's OK. I don't feel you intrude.

My ukrainian "fiancee" turned out to be a fraud. She was quite intelligent, so she didn't actually try to scam me, before I went to visit her. I stayed there for three months,
living together with her. For a while together with her family in their flat. A few days after my arrival I was told in no uncertain terms, that...."it is customary in Ukraine to give your sweetheart a present as sign of your affection. Say something minimum $500". When I flatly refused, she flew into an inpressive tantrum. Which I largely ignored, so we made up. After a couple of months we got "engaged", but I discovered, that she hadn't informed her rather numerous other suitors of the fact. She was not reliable, I caught her lying from time to time. The standard in her flat was out of the way to high considering her income. Alltogether the whole thing started to smell fishy, so I finally went home ........ and found four active profiles with her, which had been there all the time. After some heated discussions with her, we broke up. I only lost app. $1100 on it, but the emotional loss and the disappointment were depressing for a while.

My datinghistory is like this: From 1989 two relationships with polish women. One lasting two years, later one lasting app.ten years. Both initiated with a newspaper ad. After that maybe five years of net-dating, both on local scandinavian sites and also on some international. The local sites resulted in meetings and short relationships in two cases. The international sites led to about a couple of hundred contacts, where I had intensive mailing- and/or telephonecontact with something like 50 of them. I went to visit one in Latvia, but only stayed at her place one day, as she showed the usual eastern arrogance.

I met my present polish wife by being introduced to her by a friend of mine, while I was in Poland Our marriage has had its stormy periods, mainly because she's a very social urbanite, and I love peace and quiet in the countryside. But such problems are of a more "natural" type, a question of different personalities. There's nothing scammer-like about her, she enjoys going to a second-hand shop and use $20-30, she's completely faithful and hates status-seeking. The biggest source of irritation for me is, that she (and that is very common for FSU women) has an obsession with soap-operas. Sometimes you see this manifested in other eastern women as an unreasonable belief in the american dream. Swimmingpool, Hollywood-style, big car etc. These women spend half their lives in a dreamstate. It can be trying.

I'm sure you won't be scammed by the visa-tricks etc, and when or if you go east, restrict yourself to the normal amount of courting costs. Dinners, flowers, a bottle of wine.
If your girlfriend complains, drop her. You can get very cheap and decent accomodation by renting a private flat (I paid $8 a day), and transport costs, beer, tobacco etc. is cheap. So alltogether it doesn't need to be so expensive. While you are there, make sure to create friendships with some locals outside the net-dating scene. They can help you to get contact with the "real" (non-scamming) people. Ordinary people in Ukraine are very decent, and occasionally they speak a little english. This is ofcourse a timeconsuming process, but in the end create better results.

PeopleSmoks
12-22-2007, 01:25 AM
Hey swede! Thanks for the info!!! Another question... where do you find these $8 flats??? Anything advertised on the web carries a western price tag. I've read that citizens of the US and a few other countries don't need a visa to enter Ukraine, but need to show some proof that they have a place to stay. Again, how do I find these cheaper places?

I'm only planning to spend a week there. I think it'll be a good amount of time for us to get to know each other, but not over stay my welcome if things don't work out.

quote:she's a very social urbanite, and I love peace and quiet in the countryside.
Where's Mr. Haney???

Your current life sounds like the base plot to "Green Acres"!:D Take it away Prometheus!!![:o)]

Train returns

swede
12-22-2007, 01:57 AM
Hi PeopleSmoks,

I'm afraid you'll have to rely on local newspapers or possibly UA touristagencies to find such places. That's why it's an advantage to have local contacts. Maybe your friend can help you. Usually there is a lot of offers for such flats.
Also make sure that you will have some $$ money available. It's not always, that the banks will give you anything but the local currency, which for some reason isn't so popular in Ukraine. Euros can be used also.

Sorry, the last part of your post contains some inside jokes and language I don't master. Please let the poor countrybumpkin in on it.

PeopleSmoks
12-22-2007, 02:46 AM
quote:Sorry, the last part of your post contains some inside jokes and language I don't master. Please let the poor countrybumpkin in on it.
Hey swede! "Green Acres" was an American TV comedy show in the 1960's. An older American businessman married a young Hungarian beauty who had become accustomed to big city life in New York... shopping, shopping and more shopping! The businessman decided to by a farm and move to the countryside to the objections of his "very social urbanite" wife. Sound familiar?

Mr. Haney was the scam artist who sold the farm to the guy. The farm was a piece of crap, but it looked good in the photos! Maybe this sounds familiar?

Where Prometheus comes in is that he has posted a profile on UALadys using photos of this rather unattractive, shabby looking character. He lists some pretty bizzare hobbies, etc...

He actually receives responses to this profile from girls who want to become acquainted with him and posts the letters here from time to time. Check past pages in this forum topic. I think there's one on page 26?

I've posted similar profiles using photos of the new James Bond and use the profile name jamesbond007. The profile states that I'm looking for FSU/MOB scam artists to write to me and send me some hot photos. I actually have had "girls" reply to this ad.[8D]

It becomes fairly obvious that the "girls" who respond to these overtly fake ads are scammers who simply don't read what is written. Even on the real ads I've posted, I get messages from girls saying they like my "structure", but if you look at "who has viewed me", they didn't.

Anyway, thanks again for the info. I'll discuss a place to stay with the girl I plan to visit as you suggest. I just hope she doesn't ask me to send her a couple hundred bucks to put as a deposit.

Train returns

brunods
12-22-2007, 03:09 AM
--&gt; Denial of what? There's nothing to deny or approve here. :) I don't care if she is a fraud or not at this moment. I just like the conversations we have, the pictures are nice but I don't care much about those also. As far as I know she can either be a normal girl who corresponds with more than one guy and does not meet so easilly like any other girl would do in internet non-paid chats or she can be a scammer wanting me to pay more and more months. At the moment I cannot be sure of either thing so I do not have anything to deny or not. I just keep my mind open thats all. If I treat her like if she was a scammer and later on I find out she wasn't, that would suck wouldn't it? :)

brunods... to anyone with experience in this area, you are showing the classic symptoms of denial.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Its easy to figure out when a woman is decent and when she's not so we can quickly dismiss the crap.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Say's who?

---&gt; Says me. I can. If you can't you should learn how to. It took me years to learn how to read women. I have several women friends who tell me what they think how they think why they think etc... its like I'm their gay friend sometimes, who understands them better than they understand themselves! ;) When you get to that level then you really can say you can figure out easilly who's crap and who isn't. Just one remark about that, I was talking about real life meeting not just internet. In Internet it is harder as the reading is done in a different way and in this case there's a 3rd person involved (translator) so it is even harder.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For example I paid 2 months unlimited, if she wasn't for real I would expect her to show less interest after the payment but she keeps writting everyday.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Whoooo Hooooo! Now there's proof of legitimacy if I ever saw it! I guess they have no interest in getting two more months, and two more after that!

--&gt; If I was a UALady's scammer and got commission from monthly subscriptions, after I got the money for 2 months I would be much more relaxed and write a bit less until maybe a week or two before the end of those 2 months. For example if you are unsure of getting your end of the month salary or not, you will be VERY workaholic until you get it. After you get it you'll feel more relaxed until the end of the following month is near. Thats just psychology.
Brasilians even go further, once they make enough money on one day selling stuff, they'll close up early and go enjoy themselves. :)

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am far from stupid or blind. I am expert in all kinds of scams, I even know how they work internally so its very easy for me to see how it might work. As for UA the company itself is OK the only scam can be some ladies who join and some staff who are less decent.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I suggest you read about the criminal past of UA's owners and founders before declaring it a "good" company. Enron was a "good" company too.

--&gt; Where do I read about this criminal past of UA's owners? :)


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BTW I make sure the girl knows I am not swimming in cash at all. I tell her I can't afford the trip right now which is true actually, am recovering from 3-4 bad business months and its going much better now.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I see much happiness in your future with your FSU MOB...

--&gt; You see more than me then. It is more likely that I will not even go there. :) As I said this is like any internet non-paid chat, no matter what you talk with the girl, you have to know if she is really into you and until you feel that, its a bad idea to try to meet her, you'll only get excuses. Its not her saying she is into you, its you feeling she is. I mean REALLY feeling. Its hard to explain, I just know how to recognize it. :)
I will probably go to Estonia instead to meet my brother, I got good business there. The idea of going to Ukraine is not appealing even!
Lets see what Nadja answers to my last letters, I am quite curious about it.


You know, there are indirect ways of knowing the truth. :)

ham
12-22-2007, 07:05 AM
I suggest men make VERY CLEAR, BEYOND DOUBTtheir stance related to expenditure and relative financial comfort level.
Be wary that your chances will drop stone cold ( at least mine have! ).
However, I see no point in misrepresenting one's will or actual finances: women are not fools, and she'll find out sooner than later.
Thinking that you can postpone concrete decisions indefinitely (next year dear, I promise ) will only cause trouble: she ventured the MOB route to improve her life and improve it NOW, not "maybe next year".
This does not mean being unwilling to spend money on a woman, but a degree can easily cost tens of thousands, and gives the man no "special right soever".
Should you mention it, she'd probably complain you are cheap, a "control freak" and that -ultimately- you wanted to "buy her", then.

swede
12-22-2007, 10:09 AM
Hi PeopleSmoks,

sounds quite funny, and I can't deny some similarities. I certainly don't live in a mansion.

But the urbanite woman/ruralite man problem isn't restricted to eastern Lolitas. It's universal.

Should I choose an alter ego, it would probably be inspired from Terry Pratchett, who describes the reclusive mystic sitting outside his cave meditating, so young, curious women could come around and say: "Gosh".

I could tune myself down to a new-age marmalade version, offering services like "thighs scryed", "instant healings" at reasonable rates. There's a growing subculture in the east, being interested in washed-out asian philosophy.

Goddiejens
12-22-2007, 05:07 PM
Hi PeopleSmoks,


quote:Originally posted by PeopleSmoks

I question whether this is AS true as we are all led to believe? Certainly right after the break up of the USSR, life sucked hard and people now had the opportunity to leave. (Both men and women) But that was awhile ago. I've heard the FSU is like many growing regions. Some areas and people are doing well, some aren't.

Well, I will fly to Krasnodar in January and check myself. I speak a bit Russian (basic level), I prepare myself very good my reactivating my Russian language skills. I have an intensive communication with one lady there for more than 6 weeks now. She mailed me that she has a pc at home so that the agency office of ruladies.com transfers her every mail from me and also the translation online. She also mailed me that state university studies in Russia are for free. This weekend there is a public food fair in Krasnodar where all people can buy food for half price, so people feel thankful to the government to arrange that in many Russian towns now before the New Year Party.

I just booked and received my flight ticket. I contacted ruladies.com support to get the address of that office in Krasnodar after I had booked online a meeting with this a.m. lady. They wanted a copy of my id, so I mailed them attached this copy of my id. Then I received the address of the office.

Now I am in contact with a travel agency to arrange the hotel room in Krasnodar. I push them to offer me a not so expensive hotel room nearby the office of ruladies.com. I also just have arranged my confirmation of the travel health insurance, so I still need just the hotel confirmation to request the tourist visa from the Russian embassy.

I just know the names of all family members of the lady, I also know the name of her dog. I know that she has holidays when I come to see her in January. She has never promised to have sex with me when I am there ... she leaves this decision until the come out of our first meeting. This is normal, for my opinion.



quote: In the letters I've received, sex is usually only a topic exploited by scammers hoping to get a guy thinking with his small head, accompanied by some of the pics I've posted on my personal site. Some girls talk about the age difference as being more along the lines of social and/ or life experience and ecoconomic stabilty. (not necessarily wealth) Also they talk about "slightly" older men knowing what they want and being passed the desires to play the field so much. Granted, some scammers have also gone this route regarding the subject. They're often travel scammers who will "invest" the time of month long correspondence trying to get the $1,500 for visa/passport/airfare, as opposed to translation scammers who go for the steady $100 or a month... (like UALadys?). As most girls I have written to are younger than me, I always ask this question of age to see what their answer is. If she talks about sex... BIG RED FLAG!!!




Well, you are absolutely right that sex combined with nude pictures and so on is almost in every case a proof of scam. The only gift I sent via ruladies.com was a picture for her. She askes that to show it her parents.



quote: But for me, I am honestly looking to find a wife, not a daughter!


Well, that's up to you to choose the lady you prefer, also in the criteria of age. I do not give you advices in that, and I would not like to have your advices regarding my decisions in my case.



quote: You have to better be sure your FSU love queen IS past her school days & definitelydone with her education, unless you feel like acquiring a step-daughter who'll spend most of her time at school (meeting "cute boys" her age, perhaps ) while you foot the bills worth tens of thousands.


Sorry, where is the problem? I can find another lady, she can find another boy... . Let's live and enjoy our life!!!



quote: As I said, I had heard that these girls are incredibly serious about school. The fact that the girl I plan to visit graduates this year is the only reason I have continued to correspond with her with serious intentions and hopes. Had she told me she would graduate in two or three years, I might have balked. .


Well, I understand it well in your case because you want her to leave very fast the country and come to you in order to live in your country... .

I go a different way. I would invite my love so that first she can visit me and see with her own eyes how I live and how the city here is and how the people are and how her perspectives are. Then she goes back, may be I visit her then again. If we want to come together and have our future together, ok, then we need to find a solution and would discuss about it.

Goddiejens

ham
12-22-2007, 06:45 PM
quote:Sorry, where is the problem? I can find another lady, she can find another boy... . Let's live and enjoy our life!!!

the problem is that if expectations are not adjusted according to real life abilities and dispositions, clash of expectations will soon occur, with tragic results.
I say: one shall be honest and loose prospects, but be honest; don't pretend to "leave open" doors that do not even exist; or gamble and loose one's shirt.


quote:I do not give you advices in that, and I would not like to have your advices regarding my decisions in my case.

There is no need to take it personally. I personally do not recall you saying you are in a huge age gap relationship; I might mistake your words for some other poster's, but if you are, it is your prerogative and sole problem. Here everyone advises according to one's own perceived sense of what's best, which might vary.

PeopleSmoks
12-23-2007, 05:02 AM
quote:Well, that's up to you to choose the lady you prefer, also in the criteria of age. I do not give you advices in that, and I would not like to have your advices regarding my decisions in my case.

Hey Goddiejens! The girl you have found, her age compared to yours, etc... are all a matter of your preference and no one else's. My personal fellings for my situation is that too large of an age gap could eventually be a problem. I don't really know for sure. I'm 44yo, and the girl I'm planning to visit just turned 25yo in October.

I hadn't really planned on getting hooked up with a girl that young, it just worked out that way. My search was for a girl 28yo to 35yo. Yes, younger than me, but for good reason as I would hope to have kids with the girl I find and age comes into consideration at that point. I figure that a girl in this age group who has no kids would want kids and is able to have them. Desire to have kids are something I ask about.

The part about this girl still being in school was also a factor. She is due to graduate soon. If she had told me that she had another year or two before she was to graduate, I probably would not have continued writing to her. As I've said, I have heard that it is very unlikely that an FSUW would just quit school to be with some guy as they take education very seriously.

quote: I suggest men make VERY CLEAR, BEYOND DOUBTtheir stance related to expenditure and relative financial comfort level.

As our "real" meeting approaches, our discussion includes this subect among others. I've made it clear to her that if all goes well when we meet and it is agreed that she will come to the US, I would hope it to be as soon as all the paperwork can be completed and approved. I told her I plan to pay for more English lessons so she will be able communicate better and feel more comfortable with her surroundings. I may also take Ukrainian lessons as I think it would be respectful of me toward her to do so.

I also told her that I think it may be hard for her to find work in her field of study, but I would not expect her to take some menial job. I have told her that I'm not rich, but I do have a good job and I'm financial stable and capable of supporting her and a family. She remains optomistic about finding work in her field of study. I honestly am not so optomistic and realize that I may have to figure out something to keep her from becoming bored to death.

The difference in our ages (19+ years) is openly discussed as well as her certainty about making such a huge move to come to the US. About our ages, she says that this way she will always be young and beautiful to me and I will never look to another woman. (Good answer?) In fact, I kind of tried to scare her a bit about how hard it might be for her coming here, but she has insisted that she knew what she wanted and what to expect when she placed her ad, and is fully prepared to leave Ukraine. She seems very confident.

We've been corresponding for almost 5 or 6 months, with a couple of gaps that were of my doing, not hers. I continue to "fish various FSU dating sites, but have not found her profile, so I tend to believe that if I'm not the only guy she writes to, apparently she's not looking anymore. (she says I'm the only one).

I have been very honest with this girl about everything. Basically for the reasons ham talked about. If the girl's not retarded, she'll figure it out if you've been bullsh!tting her sooner or later! Then what??? DIVORCE!!! So why lie?

Yes, we have even discussed sex. Although the subject was brought up with her concerns of me being one of those "sex tourists". Personally, I think those guys are pieces of sh!t for having such a lack of respect for women and I think it comes from their own lack of self-esteem.

Even as we approach our planned meeting, she has expressed concerns. I've told her very frankly that I think she is beautiful and of course I think of her in a sexual way, but I will be happy to hold her hand across a table as we have a cup of coffee together, which is the truth. Hey, I could be wrong, but after a 5 or 6 month long correspondence, I don't think sex is as much of a scammer issue anymore??? In the first few letters, if the girl writes telling you about all the sexually explicit things she wants to do with you, that is a red flag to me. But after this long, I'm not so weary of it being part of our correspondence, paticularly considering the overall context of our discussions.

Goddiejens, good luck next month! My trip is coming up in March!

Train returns

PeopleSmoks
12-23-2007, 05:47 AM
brunods, I haven't commented on some of the things you've said, but I think it deserves some attention before you get screwed too hard.

quote:For example I paid 2 months unlimited, if she wasn't for real I would expect her to show less interest after the payment but she keeps writting everyday. I do think that she does not write only to me, I always had that impression. But she does reply to the subject I am talking about, its not a generic reply. And she's good!! Very good at it!
What you need to realize is that if she is scamming you, it's in her (the agency's) best interest to keep you interested so you will continue to buy these "unlimited" correspondence memberships. Not to say this girl is or isn't a scammer, but the same can be said about any job. I'm a commercial HVAC tech. It's in the best interest of both me and my company to give you the best service possible so that you will continue to use us.;)

Often, the long term scammers will write personal letters in order to give you the feeling that you matter to them. Thus, you feel a "connection" and eventually send more and more money.

quote:BTW I make sure the girl knows I am not swimming in cash at all. I tell her I can't afford the trip right now which is true actually, am recovering from 3-4 bad business months and its going much better now. :)
BAD MOVE!!! You've just told the scammer that she/ he doesn't have to worry about you wanting to fly out to meet the girl in the photo anytime soon! But, you do have enough dispoable cash on hand to buy unlimited correspondence!!! Keep that cash-cow on the hook is what the scammer is thinking at this point. Of course you're getting personalized letters.[V]

What you need to realize is that when dealing with a possible translation scam, like what apparntly happens with "some" of the girls, in "some" of the UALadys offices (and other similar sites), is that they don't need to ask you for passport/visa money, or some other relatively obvious scam. You are steady income to them as long as you buy these "unlimited" correspondence memberships and there is no reason for them to rock the boat. Especially since you won't be flying to meet the photo girl.

Honestly, you might want to rethink some of what you're doing, at least for now?[B)]

Train returns

Goddiejens
12-23-2007, 08:04 AM
Thanks to ham and peoplesmoke here!!!

I will post here my travel experience with ruladies.com (Krasnodar office) and all addresses and names after the trip, end of January 2008!!! I will be very honest because I am not at all linked to that dating company.

I will go there as a gentleman who only dates one lady because speed dating is not my preference. I will take pictures there, I also have a good digital handycam. So everything will be kept on picture and movie. Well, I protect the privacy of the lady for sure, that's why until now I have not given the name here because my intentions are serious ones with her.

Goddiejens

swede
12-23-2007, 10:51 AM
The issue of age isn't that big. Even here in Scandinavia, I've had relationships with girls 20-30 years younger than me, and no-one has considered this strange. My wife is app. 17 years younger than me, but we never think about it.

The sugar-daddy syndrome is just another manifestation of a fundamental sextourist/scammer scene.

I WISH ALL OF YOU A MERRY CHRISTMAS

ham
12-23-2007, 02:22 PM
quote:The issue of age isn't that big. Even here in Scandinavia, I've had relationships with girls 20-30 years younger than me, and no-one has considered this strange.

well, everybody likes fresh meat, me included, so if one can get that and keep it without going bankrupt, good for them.
but I remember my experience with domestic WWW dating.
Girls I contacted mostly considered 5 years age gap as "too much" or the limit they would accept.
Why or how, don't ask me.
I know i discussed it with a few of them and it was a barrier.
As well, if i approached a girl 20 years younger than me, i'd be laughed off stage.

swede
12-23-2007, 02:47 PM
Personally I don't care about a woman's age, someone 10 years older than myself would be no problem. It all depends on the character, and how you meet emotionally and physically. It would be a nightmare to bed a giggling, gumchewing Lolita.

But I have noticed (I still peep occasionally at datingsites), that while you 3-4 years ago saw profiles of 18 year old girls accepting men up to 70, it's beginning to turn the other way. Now many women, even FSUW want men younger than themselves. I don't believe these women generally are more honest than those before. It's probably something to do with demand and supply. We older guys have learned to be careful, and are normally not so tyranized by our hormonal systems, so younger men will be easier prey.

Goddiejens
12-23-2007, 04:17 PM
Well,

of course a young lady wants to have a beautiful sugar boy in her age plus 5 years as limit. And she can have many affairs with such guys in her neighbourhood. But let's see it in a realistic manner:

Normally girls between 12 and 15 years young have first sexual experiences with boys in the same generation. My first sex in that age was not a good one for the girl, I am very honest to say that here!!! (Great for me to have an orgasm in 2 minutes ... but much too quick for that girlie who might be a bit too ashamed to say ... sorry, guy, I have not felt anything, where are you???)

So this is one reason that many girls try an older man to see if sex can be more fulfilling with such a man than with a youngster... .

Another reason is the social one. Ladies receive the babies after sexual affairs. They want social safety for a future family and not the status of a left lady with baby in extreme need... .

Go to the Philippines! You find many nice girls there. They are very well educated to make the man of their dreams very very happy. They would like to make very happy also the filipino boy in the neighbourhood, but this boy cannot pay the alimentation for a family, he has no job, whatever... . So an old foreigner is the jackpot in the lottery for them!

And ... they speak well American English!!!

Goddiejens

ham
12-23-2007, 04:45 PM
quote:But I have noticed (I still peep occasionally at datingsites), that while you 3-4 years ago saw profiles of 18 year old girls accepting men up to 70, it's beginning to turn the other way. Now many women, even FSUW want men younger than themselves. I don't believe these women generally are more honest than those before. It's probably something to do with demand and supply. We older guys have learned to be careful, and are normally not so tyranized by our hormonal systems, so younger men will be easier prey.

well, the MOB fad is fading.
1 improving FSU economy
2 media coverage, naming & shaming of scammers & their tactics, exposure to cases of countless men taken to the cleaners & facing criminal charges in divorce.
3 government interference (EG US IMBRA )
We can safely say that women are no longer (that) desperate and men much less gullible, or better informed.
Let's not forget the horrible fate that befell many men who were beating their chest & tooting their victory horn online, who got married to much younger beauty queens -yes-, but also got taken to the cleaners, faced fabricated criminal charges and ultimately flushed down the toilet enormous amounts of money in short spans of time (EG a man claimed to have "invested" $100.000 over three years, before a quick divorce & lawsuit).
I have been repeatedly accused to be "envious", but only a fool would envy those men; marriage is STAYING MARRIED UNTIL DEATH, possibly happily, not splurging massive amounts of money for arm candy or ego boost (which is what most of these loons brag about on some forums anyways ).
Why?
Because when the end comes, they realize they have been billed for each & every minute of their delusive ego trip...in dear emotional & financial terms.
In comparison, visiting a brothel would mean getting things for free.


quote:Go to the Philippines! You find many nice girls there. They are very well educated to make the man of their dreams very very happy. They would like to make very happy also the filipino boy in the neighbourhood, but this boy cannot pay the alimentation for a family, he has no job, whatever... . So an old foreigner is the jackpot in the lottery for them!

No MOB route is actually much better than another.
The Philippines were known to host "penpal centres" in the 1970s, when women earnt their living entertaining marriage-minded correspondence with westerners.
Swindling gullible hopefuls is as old as man.
There is always a conman ready to sell you that gold mine in Uganda or patent rights for a platinum artificial anus, or "secret forex trading schemes of the wealthy'n'famous"...
if it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is.
Actually, such schemes have been known since the XVI century under the name of "Spanish prisoner" situation.
Back then Spain was known for its huge wealth of gold etc from south America, so conpeople fabricated lies about a "Spanish prisoner" dying in captivity, yet releasing maps to lost tresures, which could be readily purchased for pennies.
Ask yourself: if I had a genuine tresure island map, or a working "secret forex scheme" to make me wealthy, I wouldn't be eager to sell it for pennies to some idiot, would I?

PeopleSmoks
12-23-2007, 11:34 PM
quote:well, everybody likes fresh meat, me included, so if one can get that and keep it without going bankrupt, good for them.

I don't think that is the attitude to have if you're seriously looking for an FSU bride... or a bride from anywhere. Although, it's a great way to go about it if all you're doing is looking to get laid! And if a guy ends up meeting a younger girl as I have, although not my "targeted" age range, you can't have that "fresh meat" thing in your head. We all know these girls are far from stupid, and a woman in general would pick up on such an attitude.

As for not going bankrupt, all a guy can do is to discuss what the girl expects from their relationship. Sorry ham, but I still want to believe that every profile on every site is NOT posted by a scammer or a money grubbing wh@re. I don't judge you as it is not my place to do so, but my thoughts are that you got stung a few times trying to get to the honey and now have become a bit leary of the bees nest.

quote:But I have noticed (I still peep occasionally at datingsites), that while you 3-4 years ago saw profiles of 18 year old girls accepting men up to 70, it's beginning to turn the other way. Now many women, even FSUW want men younger than themselves. I don't believe these women generally are more honest than those before. It's probably something to do with demand and supply. We older guys have learned to be careful, and are normally not so tyranized by our hormonal systems, so younger men will be easier prey.
I have seen many profiles of 18 to 20yo girls targeting guys 30yo and under, but there are still plenty of "sugar daddy" ads looking for up to 70 or 75yos. I take note of this more than the ads of FSUW's looking for men 18 to 99, because those are the automatic ages from the site. The girl must consciously type in the 70 or 75.

Goddiejens, all I can say about my first time is that I gave her the rodeo experience. I rode her hard for the full 30 seconds without falling off!!!!!

quote:Another reason is the social one. Ladies receive the babies after sexual affairs. They want social safety for a future family and not the status of a left lady with baby in extreme need...
I tend to agree with this much more than the part about sexual pleasures for the girl. It seems that one of the motivating factors for these girls is that they don't want to become single moms in the FSU. Boris doesn't have a job, or has a low paying one and would not be able to support her if she had his kid? Maybe a well paid westerner can give me everything? But, as ham has said, you really need to make it clear what the limits will be as far as finances are concerned.

quote:well, the MOB fad is fading.
It doesn't seem to be. Type MOB, Ukrainian or Russian women into your browser and look at all the sites that pop up! The waters may be murkier, but as swede said, the men are getting somewhat smarter too. I know I've gotten smarter from hanging out here!

Train returns

ham
12-24-2007, 07:20 AM
quote:It doesn't seem to be. Type MOB, Ukrainian or Russian women into your browser and look at all the sites that pop up!

You must have one iota of insider's knowledge, which I gathered from these years on these forums. While ONE agency might have as much as twenty domain names (yes, 20 ), let alone auto-generated domains, click-through schemes and affiliate networks ( EG some networks come under 67 names, but when you browse the database, it's just one ), i know for sure about quite a few agencies/websites that closed down or changed hands.
A honest dating dealer in UA went from employing say a dozen full-time translators to just a couple; some italians invested considerable funds into creating a MOB agency in Kiev, but went bust within the year (I knew their webmaster).
As I said, the reasons are self-evident, especially thanks to forums such as this and media coverage of men's misfortunes in their MOB pursuits.


quote:but my thoughts are that you got stung a few times trying to get to the honey and now have become a bit leary of the bees nest.

well, life asks the question first, then teaches the lesson later, isn't it?
That is called learning or growing up.
Yes, i got stung a few times but never chased a delusion, either. Last FSUW who tried to make a fool of me long ago was my own age.
I see things as follows:
It is possible that many think that they are going to ace it (of course they do ) and that people like me "obviously" are envious losers or did something very wrong or are monsters.
For all I have to loose, be it as they think it is: life is theirs, money is theirs to do what they want with.
A poster here recently suggested how easy it'd be to chat hot women up or mesmerize them successfully.
Does it work for me that way?
No.
Does it work for him?
Perhaps...who knows; if it does, good for him.
I think human nature is basically the same: women are women, from another country, not another planet.
If I could bed hotties here on a regular basis, I wouldn't need to go the MOB route, right? And if I say I laid several hotties, where are they now?
Poetic justice showed quite a few cases of men who tooted their victory horn, but got taken to the cleaners in the end; some even faced criminal charges.
Are they losers, monsters who did all wrong?
Their ex-spouses or fiancees think they are, in spite of all the honey dew pouring during their correspondence or first meetings.
So by all means ignore me (as i always say ) and find out for yourself.
Only direct experience is valuable at times; just be wary of the potential consequences: a man i knew in the village I live in was known to have money, co-owned a supermarket, had a big house...exotic women led him to sleeping in his car in bankrupt.

PeopleSmoks
12-24-2007, 10:33 AM
quote:So by all means ignore me (as i always say ) and find out for yourself.
Ignore? Hardly. You tend to be the word of caution, although a bit pessimistic from time to time. If I find during my trip to Ukraine that the girl I'm going to visit isn't all she seems or things just don't work out, I'll be dissappointed, but not so heart broken over it. Naturally, I have high hopes, but only moderate expectaions. I look at it this way, "Hey, I need a vacation anyway!"[8D]

Train returns

swede
12-24-2007, 11:15 AM
I tend to agree with Ham in his analysis and his conclusions. And I do not think, this is based upon a pessimistic or bitter outlook. My own experiences lead me to the same results.

But that does not mean, that ALL of the FSUW are "bend". It's only a statistical phenomenon. Some of them are probably decent. You just have to find them.

As Charlie Brown said: "I have nothing against humanity. It's people I can't stand".

PeopleSmoks
12-24-2007, 06:39 PM
Merry Christmas guys!!!!!!!!!!!!
and Happy Holidays!!!!!!!!

Train returns

allan
12-25-2007, 02:54 PM
This Company is very cleaver from my first hand experience this is how it works...

Once you register with the site you will start receiving letters from beautiful women so you write back as one does which is not cheap a bit further along the ladies start sending you pictures which cost extra and it goes on and on.

OK here's how it works
1) The Ladies are real and you can meet them as I have done.
2) They will charge you for translations and introduction fees.

3) Now here's the cleaver bit all the ladies I had corresponded with have never heard of me or written to me I was writing to them for over a year so to cut a long story short the scam is that all the letters you get are generic letters produced by the translators of this company another cleaver thing is that they invite you to see the ladies replying to e-mail on web-cams great the only thing is that the women in the web cams are translators :-@

The reason i know this info is that i got freindly with a translator from the company and took her on a date after some Vodka she couldnt hold it in any more and spilled the info she was the best person i met in Ukraine and i will always hide her identity out of respect because she took a huge risk in telling me the truth...


allan hussan

thatcrazy
12-25-2007, 03:02 PM
I was also there 2 years ago... But the girl I visited actually was writing to me and remembered everything we wrote about..

I also personally know of a guy who met and married a girl from CC..

it's a crap shoot...

If you want a real 200% LEGIT agency that you can be guranteed isn't ripping you off.. you have to pay for it. They do exist but they aren't cheap.

That's one of them. It's run by a Russian woman that lives in the USA. It costs $2,100 ($175.00 month) for a full year membership which really isn't that much considering it comes with alot of extra things like:

immigration paperwork, translations of all documents for K1 and K2 Visa, post engagement help, support after marriage including unlimited consultations and help with immigration paperwork after marriage status and application for a green card.

they also prepare the girl for the interview in English at the
American ( Canadian, Australian) consulate in Moscow. and free Russian Visa support and full arrangement of travel...

anyone who is really serious ... should use those guys and completely forget about any of these other bull**** sites out there.

If you can't afford $2,100 a year.. then you shouldn't be doing this to begin with anyway..

ham
12-25-2007, 04:35 PM
quote:If you want a real 200% LEGIT agency that you can be guranteed isn't ripping you off.. you have to pay for it. They do exist but they aren't cheap.

my opinion about high-end agencies is here:
http://stop-scammers.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=933

allan
12-25-2007, 05:32 PM
Well that?s great but I was there 3 months ago and a lot of things have changed in the last 2 years like no more CC just RU, are you still in touch with the woman you met through the agency? Also remember if the agency organised your trip they will have the time to bring the girl into check with all the letters she supposedly wrote! And it not a matter of spending money its a matter of helping other people from these scammers at the end of the day most Russian and Ukrainian women have internet profiles in the hope of finding a wealthy man to take them away from the hardship so most of these women are not looking for love but security they say things like age is not a problem that?s true because the older you are the quicker you will go!!!!!!! I personally have businesses in Russia and over the last 5 years I have learned a lot about their culture and behaviour I am not saying its all bad there are some lovely women in Russia and Ukraine with good intentions but if too good to be true it usually is!!!!!!

allan hussan

PeopleSmoks
12-25-2007, 06:06 PM
quote:That's one of them. It's run by a Russian woman that lives in the USA. It costs $2,100 ($175.00 month) for a full year membership
I have stayed away from such "high end" agencies. Many of their claims seem "to good to be true." Such claims strike me as almost "selling" girls to any westerner with a few grand in his pocket and airfare to deliver his "purchase". At the same time, they have a disclaimer about the individual girls decissions regarding who she likes etc, which sounds like any other agency from UA to datemefree to whoever you find on the web.

quote:Well that?s great but I was there 3 months ago and a lot of things have changed
Okay. What kind of success did you have? Did you meet 10 girls who had no clue who the heck you were? Or did you meet a real girl who you can honestly see a future with? Generally, around here if you defend or recommend an agency, or agencies in general, you really should strap yourself in for the ride and be prepared to elaborate a bit.

Again, if you recommend a site, especially one that asks for $2100, just saying if you can't afford it you shouldn't be looking doesn't quite cut it in my book. I could wipe my butt with $20 bills if I want to and flush them down the toilet. It doesn't mean I want to!

What is your succes story?????????[:o)]

Train returns

swede
12-25-2007, 06:29 PM
"Again, if you recommend a site, especially one that asks for $2100, just saying if you can't afford it you shouldn't be looking doesn't quite cut it in my book. I could wipe my butt with $20 bills if I want to and flush them down the toilet. It doesn't mean I want to!"

I agree with you, PeopleSmoks. Where did that smell of fish come from?

ham
12-25-2007, 06:51 PM
well, SELF-PROCLAIMED high end agencies such as IF@R or its reborn incarnation V?NETS ask(ed) for $35.000 to $50.000 (yes, fifty thousands ).
Lots of promises of beauty queens with 1950s standards...the reality? Even the WM-FSUW couple behind IF@R divorced...they couldn't even keep THEIR marriage going, but ask $50.000 to get YOUR going?
[:o)][:0]
And the manager Alla used to write so much against today's "quick divorce" mentality...now she landed in the west, runs a business skinning suckers alive and guess what? She has traded up like those butterflies she used to criticize...go figure.
[:o)]

thatcrazy
12-26-2007, 01:06 AM
I don't do this Agency stuff anymore. I have a friend who does business in Slovakia and goes every 3 months.. I just go along and will eventually settle on one of the girls from there.. in person.. and checked out properly without the use of agencies..

sounds like everything is a fraud to you ham..

swede
12-26-2007, 11:25 AM
In my youth I spent 5 years studying social sciences at the university, but later when I moved to the countryside, I had to change horses and became educated as a professional carmechanic.

On this background I will compare web-dating to buying a secondhand car. No matter if you buy it from a secondhandcar dealer or privately, it's a risky business. There's a lot of room for conning, especially if you aren't technically wellinformed concerning cars.

It's the same with a lot of the datingsites. People from the west usually haven't got much knowledge of the FSU culture, and when the dating-agencies "sell" their products, they often sound suspiciously like "honest Joe" giving you a glib sales talk. A lot of valueless promises, but no real guarantee whatsoever.

The same if you buy "privately". The women on the datingsites (also the free) are more often than not showing a behaviour, which in the west would be defined as sociopathic, varying from the more primitive money-extracting schemes to the sophisticated methods for golddigging, greed or just getting a free "ticket" (green card etc) to the west. Even when confronted with facts, they will lie to your face, without remorse, and with a lot of mindgames and arrogance.

But as with cars, you CAN make a good deal. You just need knowledge, patience and a good deal of common sense.

So when "old-timers" like me and others make an effort to produce a "manual", this is not because we are grumpy, embittered old men or that we have become cynics. It's pragmatic, based upon experience. No-one in his right mind would buy one of the old eastern produced small cars (not even the people living there, if they have any choice), but a lot of WM gladly take the equalent version in form of a web-dating FSUW.

Keep in mind, I'm talking mostly about web-dating. There's a lot of nice people in the east outside the web.

ham
12-26-2007, 01:07 PM
well,
I think the real FSU asset for romantic purposes ARE LAY PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF THE LD/WWW/MOB SCENE.

I once read this, which reflects my own experience starting with domestic dating sites


quote:I believe that about two women in three that you meet on the internet will exhibit a serious personal problem that you need to consider. For about one in three, the problem will be so serious, that you will NOT want that woman in your life.

These odds sound bad, but they are actually good news. It means that you know what your risks are, and have a good way to begin measuring how well you're doing. Here are some of the women you need to watch out for:

* Some are alchoholics or on drugs. They WILL lie about it. Run. Enough said.
* Men pretending to be women. EEEEnuf said.
* Some are more interested in your money than they are in you. There are several forms-- the trickiest to recognize, is the upper middle class "doctors' daughter" who thinks her insanely high standard of living is her birthright, and doesn't realize how rude she is.
* Some are married but don't admit it at first. While this sounds good; believe me, you don't want the problem after your third or fourth meeting. I'm someone for whom this does NOT happen; and it's happened to me three times. I was going steady for two months one time, before my SO's husband came home.
* This also goes for children. I personally haven't run into very many single moms pretending to be sirens in the night, but it does happen. I also don't care if my intended has multiplied herself, but you might. In any case, it's a big thing to lie about. By the third or fourth email exchange; you should know.
* Many women have serious emotional problems. You should familiarize yourself with what paranoid, histrionic and narcissistic neuroses are, and pay particular attention to what a Borderline Personality disorder is. You WILL meet them, and they hide it well at first. Consult the DSM IV in a Library, and read about this.
* Women who don't like sex--- at least, not with you-- and won't admit it. They have a hundred reasons, but it all boils down to this: They have decided that they aren't attracted to you don't want to form a close relationship with you. And they're LYING about it. This damages your emotional integrity and wastes your time. Apply the three-date rule as a guideline.
* Women who flip emotionally from one thing to another. If she'll join up with you quickly; she'll leave you quickly, too. Watch out for impulsive women. ... and NO, the sex wasn't worth it.

swede
12-26-2007, 02:36 PM
Fits well with my experience.

brunods
12-26-2007, 06:04 PM
I object here to some of the replies are extremely negative and generalist. Just because you find a lot of bad people during your lifetime is DOES NOT mean EVERYONE is bad. Seems you forgot that and generalize all the girls in the agency. Maybe some are scams but others are not, I think if you really want to do constructive comments and evaluations you cannot treat every case as if it was a scam. Besides even if the company has all the interest in keeping you as a customer, once you pay for 2 unlimited months there would be an immediate difference in the behaviour/conversation/timing. Considering this works as a small company not as a large multinational.

All my letters from the girl I correspond with are personal, she always replies to what I say she remembers what she told me or didn't tell me, etc. So stop bull****ing like if all letters are generic!
They are not. Period.

Remember that if you are SERIOUS about meeting a girl, you CANNOT spend the whole time thinking its more likely that she is a scam! That is a very bad start, middle or end of anything.
Its like me assuming this really nice person is a bad person just because people I meet are usually crap. That is just plain stupid.

What is too good to be true usually is. Yes but again, you assume we all get "too good to be true" stories?? WE DONT!!!!!!!!!!
So focusing on the non-scam, non-too-good-to-be-true, personalized-letters and all positive aspects, we do find decent girls around here.
I doubt someone can make up a whole life story, day by day, with tons of details for months and remember everything she said or didn't say. If you are lying you will not remember what you said months before unless you go through all the letters and re-read them which would be also extremely unlikely as it would take too long to do that everytime you had to answer. Your scam theory is extremely flawed.

So I would ask for you to respect the other people who are serious and stop treating every situation the same way.

As for that "BAD MOVE" thing from PeopleSmoks, are you stupid?????????
If I want a relation that works I am honest and tell the truth, there's no "moves" or any bull****ting. In ANY relation in REAL LIFE or VIRTUAL it works EXACTLY the same way. I have plenty of girl friends who avoid going out when they are in exams. And I know because I had girl friends who I invited out dozens of times and they never accepted, only after school/exams. I think you either lack the experience to know that it is NORMAL not to lose focus on something as important to a student as end-of-year exams just to meet a guy from internet.

If I had a super important project, I also avoid going out which I have been doing in the last 2 months, I haven't gone play poker with friends for a long time now and they invited me tons of times already. Maybe that means I'm a "scammer" but hey they're not paying to ask me to play? lol...

You need to stop your blind critics and compare real life situations to those with girls in UA. They are people and not an object over which you purchased rights. They can at any time get fed up of you and say "buzz off" like any girl can. Just because you pay does not mean the girl is yours guaranteed and has to do everything you want.
Try meeting girls on free online chats and after a few dozen conversations try to set meeting with them to see what excuses they make up. Honestly, you lack experience from this! You should know paid or not paid, it happens exactly the same thing.

As for translators making up a character or using some other lady profile, how many people in chats make up a different person or pretend to be someone else??
If UA has a "hidden" policy of having translators talk to people pretending to be one or more of the girls then yeah that is clearly a scam. But then we would for sure be able to cross-reference the letters and figure out where the scams are and which girls are not scams. Some of us are actually looking for those girls which are not scams.

If you dont want to use UA the only good thing you can do for others is to post all your letters, cross reference them and identify the scammers.

As for girls talking to more than one guy at the same time, saying similar things, even I do that when I don't have much time and I have to tell the same thing to 2 or 3 different people. Copy/paste. Does that make it a scam? NO.
Writting letters is way more logical to copy/paste and I am not even a bit surprised or think it is something bad, I think it is very natural they do that in the start.

Now for the girl saying "you're the only one" come on... maybe you got laid last week and you still tell her she's the only one? So what did you expect? Be realistic, you don't even know her, you do not have a real relation or any compromise with each other, do you expect her to belong to you before she even meets you???????????
She will possibly find some other guy, she will talk to other man, she will say she likes you very much as well as to 10 other guys, etc.

As for me, as I said my girl does not look too good to be true. Looks like a normal person with good principles, I don't think she is the kind of person who jumps into a relation in her head. She's quite open and a dreamer but very realistic at the same time. At a certain time I stopped writing for two weeks because I got really convinced she didn't want to meet me. I was thinking about that scam thing and she was too busy/wanted to know me better before we met.

Now I think she was right. It would make no sense to meet her now. We are both organizing our lifes and I think it is a good time to meet when we can both focus on the relation. She said I can come anytime I want but that she prefers to meet later, following my April suggestion. Actually she wanted to meet sooner... and I said no, it will be next year, I can't afford to meet her now. :)
Also don't compare 2 months of unlimited mails with travelling to Ukraine, you are comparing USD 150.00 to over USD 1500.00 so don't say that if I can afford 150 I can afford 1500, that is just plain stupid. I don't want to afford leaving my clients and staff almost unnatended for a week at this moment. Also I have other things which are more cash priority than going to Ukraine meet my possible future wife!

BTW I have the impression the girls show our photos to their parents? ;)

Now this is something we can cross reference because I doubt the same girl will show the photo of 2 different guys to her parents! Ask her what does she say about you to her parents then you can cross reference with the other guy.

There is here someone who is corresponding with the same girl as me, prince, did she show your photo(s) to her parents? ;)
I'd say yes! :)
I've shown the photo of 2 different girls to some friends as well. :P
See, this is what I mean, you really need to stop thinking "SCAM" on everything the girl does. She's just human! When she's excited about something she tells her friends and her family.

Gosh my posts are sooooo long! :P

Anyway gotta reply to da babe. Please stop the blind critics on this forum, you will never be taken serious that way.

swede
12-26-2007, 06:37 PM
Yes Bwana,

I stand corrected; I bow to your infinite wisdom, and especially to your far superiour experience.

But apart from that:

There are certain parts of certain cities, where I would not venture alone, at night or at all. That does not mean, that everybody living there are muggers. It means, that my statistical chances of getting mugged are bigger there. So if I insist upon doing it anyway, I should be aware of the risks and prepare for them. It's the same on web-dating, your chances of getting "mugged" are considerably higher.

That's what I am trying to say here: "Beware, here be dragons". I don't think, that I ever suggested you to stop your contact, this is your choice ofcourse.

Concerning generalisations. I'm a bit surprised. You have admitted, that you never have been to UA, but nontheless you have a lot of strong opinions of what's up and down there. Based upon your short contact with a few estonian girl. You generalise from Estonia to Ukraine; ....you are in for a sudden awakening. The similarities are small. Even the Baltic countries can't be compared completely to each other.

You asked for constructive criticism. Learn ukrainian or russian, and go live there at least 6 months.

PeopleSmoks
12-26-2007, 08:44 PM
quote: I don't do this Agency stuff anymore. I have a friend who does business in Slovakia and goes every 3 months.. I just go along and will eventually settle on one of the girls from there.. in person.. and checked out properly without the use of agencies..

I know you didn't necessarily mean "settle" on a girl... Maybe settle down with a girl???

quote:It's the same with a lot of the datingsites. People from the west usually haven't got much knowledge of the FSU culture, and when the dating-agencies "sell" their products, they often sound suspiciously like "honest Joe" giving you a glib sales talk. A lot of valueless promises, but no real guarantee whatsoever.
This is something I've said before about dating site profiles. The fact that so many profiles say similar things can't exclude a girl from being legit. Whether it is a scammer or a real girl, they are both trying to "sell" a product. In the case of the scammer, he or she is "selling" a fantasy. And yes, a real girl is trying to "sell" herself to a prospective mate. In either case, which girl would you write to?

1) Hello my new friend! My name is Olga. Of me is 28 years. I like to prepare delicious meals for my family and friends. They say my dishes are tasty. My hobbies are to swimming and excersise. I watch my form because I want to always be beautiful for my beloved man. I like to make a cosy home and to raise loving family with my beloved.[:p]

2) Hello my new wallet! My name is Olga. Of me is 28 years. I don't cook, so I expect you to take me out for dinner every night. I generally lounge around and do nothing all day. If you want your house cleaned, hire a maid. Kids? Hahaha!!![V]

Okay guys, who gets you to write to them???

quote:As for that "BAD MOVE" thing from PeopleSmoks, are you stupid?????????
Generally speaking.... um... NO!!!! Far from and getting smarter everyday!!!! First of all, I don't believe that every ad from every girl is a scam. It's almost logistically impossible. That said. IF it is a scam, the second you told the scammer you don't have money to visit the girl in the photo, you became easy money.

brunods, think for one second about how many guys write to whatever site the girl is on that you write to. Take those letters, divide them among whatever number of translators, figure on an 8 to 10 hour work day and there are your personalized letters. I honestly don't know the price of "unlimited" correspondence, but I'm sure it's more than enough for someone to make a hefty profit while still employing someone to read your letters everyday. And if it is a scam, (hey the girl may very well be real), but if I was the scammer, I would certainly make sure that your letters got personal attention since I know I have you on a hook and you're not going anywhere or coming to meet my photo girl anytime soon.

So let us repose the question of just who is stupid???

quote:Concerning generalisations. I'm a bit surprised. You have admitted, that you never have been to UA, but nontheless you have a lot of strong opinions of what's up and down there. Based upon your short contact with a few estonian girl. You generalise from Estonia to Ukraine; ....you are in for a sudden awakening. The similarities are small. Even the Baltic countries can't be compared completely to each other.
Granted, I haven't made the trip yet, from what I understand, eastern and western Ukraine are very different from each other in many ways. And as swede said, "Beware, here be dragons". Ukraine and the Baltics may not be off the edge of the map, but yes, there are plenty of dragons.

Train returns

swede
12-26-2007, 10:29 PM
Hi Peoplesmoks,

I hope, you didn't take my remarks about about generalisations personally. They were not directed at you. My opinion is, that you seem to be a very sensible and decent person, and that you will have a fair chance of getting a positive result from your excursion east.

As far as I know, Ukraine contains 37 different national or ethnic
groups, with the russians as the next biggest. Many of these groups are ill at ease with each other (or worse), don't speak each others' language, have different social cultures and political orientations.

So it's ofcourse not possible to generalise about people in UA as a whole.

The "real" ukrainians are in my experience those, who get closest to the ideals, which are the recurrent theme in many profiles.

You're right about those two profiles you used as examples. But it is possible to cram a LOT of information into a profile, if you are careful. It took me 6 weeks to compose my first profile app. 7 years ago, and I believe it described me rather accurately. Also my negative sides.

PeopleSmoks
12-27-2007, 12:03 AM
Hey swede! No, I understood perfectly, thus my reference to the dragons off the edge of the map. Like you, I was trying to warn someone else not to be quite so quick to believe that just because you receive a letter everyday that it automatically means the person answering his letters is the one in the photo. I honestly hope the girl he is writing to is real!!!

And yeah, the similarity of one FSU state to another is abstract at best, let alone the intricacies of each region within each country. Just within the US, driving from state to state can be like driving from country to country. There are so many different sub-cultures within sub-cultures! Heck, from city to city things change! Now that all of these FSU countries are no longer controled by a central government and are allowed to openly show their independent cultures, that were hidden away for decades, it only stands to reason that the differences between former Soviet states would be even more pronounced. The only true commonality I see between FSU states today is their desire to grow economically and become part of the world market place. Thus, the FSU/MOB market openned. As beautiful women was, and in some ways still is, the most desireable export these countries have to offer the world.

I try to learn what I can about Ukraine, as that is where I focused my search. I've made it clear to the girl I'm writing to of my intentions toward her and that when we have kids together, should our meeting go as we both hope and expect, they will know as much about Ukraine, the customs, the language, etc... as they will about the US in our household. I've openly told her that I am her student as well. I'm older than her, but that doesn't mean I know everything, especially about her country and culture. I want to learn.

As for the profile ads, I wasn't so much referring to what the guys might write, as what the girls' ads might look like. The scammers know what "sells". Agencies in general, know what "sells". I'm sure that legitimate girls who place ads get a bit of "coaching" from people at the agencies as to what a western man would like to see in an ad. So similarities between ads, whether scammer or legit, are reasonable to expect. I don't see excluding a girl just because her profle looks so much like so many others.

Train returns

swede
12-27-2007, 01:07 AM
I ofcourse wish for everyone, that he'll meet his dreamgirl, and my intensions here are mostly to prevent someone having my own experience.

Being very naive, gullible and innocent (though being 60 years old and having years and years of polish contact behind me), I was literally heartbroken, when I returned after 3 months in Ukraine. I simply couldn't believe, that anyone could have such a degree of cynicism. If it had only been my "fianc?e", I could have accepted it. But it seemed to me, that her whole subculture was infected. Poland definitely hadn't prepared me for that.

Datingsites are a very interesting sociological phenomenon. I don't think, that you can find anything, which mirrors a nation's or a group's situation so much. How many women, what they want, what they offer, the difference between city and countryside etc. (I actually
use it to investe my pensionsfunds. So far with success. If a country suddenly spew out a lot of women on datingsites, it's time to sell in that area).

But with the growing popularity of pre-packaged profiles, the uniformity is getting more and more pronounced. Just 5 years ago, you would still meet small masterpieces of individual selfdescriptions, leaving no doubt, that the woman at least existed.
Now it's like fastfood.

brunods
12-27-2007, 10:03 AM
People from different countries are usually very different, it is to expect them to behave in a cynic way and discriminate us. When I lived 4 years in Holland which is said to be one of the most open-minded and tolerant countries towards foreigners, I was discriminated from day 1 to the end. There were many things I disliked in the way people think and behave in general but other thinks are much better than in my country. Moral of the story... don't expect things to be perfect. Expect things to be less-than-perfect. The rest is common sense I guess. What I do is just to observe if it is normal for the people in that specific country/city to behave like that before I start thinking about conspiracy theories. :)

I don't think people care enough about me or you to actually behave in a special way just for 1 person. They behave normal like they would with anybody else. Women in Holland expect men to cook or else they criticise you and the most used word is "you should......", they really like to tell you what you should do, what you should be like, how to behave, etc. Thats the problem with the culture in Holland and thats also why they are known to be very arrogant.
In Ukraine as far as I know, it is like a jungle. So what do you expect? If you go to Russia you should be extremely careful or you'll get mugged very easilly. Same applies in Ukraine.
I guess in our home countries we have a lot more safety.

Cultural differences usually bring in problems in communication. For example in my country it is not normal that guests wash the dishes or clean the table after dinner. But in Brasil it is expected that everyone helps clean up and wash dishes. I had this experience with some brasilian friends and after I heard they were pissed that I didn't help wash the dishes after dinner. I explained that in my culture that would be rude unless its a really good friend of family, even so it is unusual. I bet differences between our culture and ukrainian are much higher so there will be all kinds of missunderstandings. :)
I guess the best way to make things run more smoothly is to tell people right away that our cultural habits are different and if we're doing something that they consider less polite they should tell us. That should cover your back! I think showing good will is the best way to go.

I'd like to know what that "cynism" means exactly, what happened?
Tell your story "fiancee" story here so I can analyse the situation and explain you what they were thinking. ;)

I think first thing I would do if I was in Ukraine living is not to focus my attention on the girl/relation but to my work and learning how things work instead. It really helps a lot plus you won't react in an exagerated manner to less pleasant situations.

People are not perfect they will do stupid things say what they think and don't think. It is up to us to see things in the best point of view and show them how to see it in the same way. I find Ukrainian women to be very wise in this matter. :)

ham
12-27-2007, 10:49 AM
quote:Datingsites are a very interesting sociological phenomenon. I don't think, that you can find anything, which mirrors a nation's or a group's situation so much. How many women, what they want, what they offer, the difference between city and countryside etc. (I actually
use it to investe my pensionsfunds. So far with success. If a country suddenly spew out a lot of women on datingsites, it's time to sell in that area).


forget the FSU, outer-space-cold winters, 70 years of communism, 80$/month wages, violent drunk men etc.
I found out that WWW/LD dating is much all the same.
Sure, a french or italian woman is very unlikely to ask you to wire $300 because her daddy needs a new liver, but during my (short) experience, you'll see domestic women throwing fantastic sob stories at you anyways.
Let's forget about women, too.
In the gym I go there was this youngster who endlessly bragged about being a model (soon to be on TV), a philandering millionaire or something who had five big ruthless professional bouncers run for their lives.
Shortly thereafter it was discovered he was a broke bum working occasional jobs, whose entire family had gone bankrupt and he was probably around big evil bouncers...bringing them a beer with a smile or cleaning their puke from the floor...and no TV either.
In real life sooner or later you can part Hercules from clowns playing one on TV; you can part millionaires from mortgage kings; you can part hollywood actors from the guy selling popcorn in your local cinema, even if both "work in the movie industry"; you can part Dior models from trashy girls who serve coffee and have sex in the toilet with some tequila-breath truck driver.
Dating makes no difference, but WWW/LD dating actually hampers one's ability to frame liars, sociopaths, benders and pranksters.
The barrier of the computer screen allows Barney to claim he's a millionaire: the next million will be the eight in his bank account and he only works a few hours singing boring songs at corporate events wearing a tuxedo...which earnt him eleventeen music industry gold awards.
Sally is not some middle-aged, divorced sea slug with three kids working mac jobs: she is Muffy ****, the teenaged cheerleader who just won a millionaire contract with Gucci.
Amber is not some american prostitute working in Asia; she is a "international fashion model"; why does she edit her face from the naked pics online, if she is a "international fashion model" and not a prostitute (ok, escort... )? Models usually seek recognition, while a prostitute (who maybe told mommy she was relocating to Seoul to learn embroidery ) might have different priorities.
Yes, and my cousin squeezes oranged with his butt-cheeks...

swede
12-27-2007, 11:25 AM
Citation:
"I'd like to know what that "cynism" means exactly, what happened? Tell your story "fiancee" story here so I can analyse the situation and explain you what they were thinking. ;)"

Cynicism means, that you have stopped believing in idealism, not having any ideals. At the practical level it manifests in a lack of responsibility, decency, honesty etc. You treat other people like objects, and think it's OK, if you misuse them for your own benefit.

Such an attitude is only one step from backstabbing and sociapathy, and this subculture I met in UA, was backstabbing and sociopathic. Not only to foreigners, but also amongst each other. Powerfights, mindgames, manipulations and just plain quarelling were going on a lot of the time.

Thanks for your offer of an analysis, but I'll forego it at the moment. I think, your competence will be much bigger, AFTER you've been in UA. I'm not a great believer in desk-theorists.

swede
12-27-2007, 01:13 PM
When it comes to it, we are all herd-animals, and as such fighting for a position in the hierachy. Originally with raw power or sexual attraction, but as societies get more complex, more sophisticated aims and means arise. Money, fame, glamour, manipulation, mindgames....you name it.(though sex is usually still a favorite. When W.C.Fields was asked: "What do you think of sex?", he answered: "Well, I think it has come to stay").

Most societies develop a code for social behaviour, sometimes even humanistic ideals, but this is only a more or less thin veneer, necessary for group survival.
It's the price for a functional group. Think about what would happen, if everyone had her/his own trafficrules, or if we didn't cooperate to make schools, hospitals etc.
So asocial (sociopath) behaviour is destructive for the average person, eventually even to the individual practising it, even if s/he maybe gets short-time benefits.

Ofcourse there will always be individuals stupid or egotripping enough to disregard this, and if a society contains more than a certain percentage of such individuals, it spells trouble. Possibly collapse.

With the coming of advanced communication technology, the possiblities for the sociopaths are greatly enhanced as Ham pointed out. But still, the possibilities are not the same as the will to (mis)use them.

Surely you will meet (mis)users in the west also (sadly enough a growing number), but this is peanuts to the numbers, you will meet in certain SFU subcultures. My own approximation is, that if more than 20% of the web-dating FSUW are kosher, I would be happily surprised.

But as the physicist Heisenberg demonstrated, the laws of existence is only a statistical probability. With enough perseverance and knowledge you may find one of the kosher 20% FSUW. Being adventurous is not a character-deficiency. But DO bring along your Batman anti-scammer spray.

PeopleSmoks
12-27-2007, 10:01 PM
Hey guys! Once again, as one who is yet to make the trip, I rely on what I read in your posts as well as various web articles. As it seems the topic has swung a bit toward sociopathic issues, I understand what you're saying about the attitude of these people in general. I have read an article that puts forth that the attitude of the scam artists is that they are really doing nothing wrong.

They have a "talent" and are using it for the purpose of making what they consider to be a good living. They see it as the greed of the westerners coming to their country to exploit them, so why not get what they can? If a guy is stupid enough to send them money then it's the westerner's stupidity that is the problem.

quote:Tell your story "fiancee" story here so I can analyse the situation and explain you what they were thinking. ;)
brunods, there's not much to analyze. I met a girl in August. She is a bit younger than what my target age group was, but... We corresponded for a month and a half, and even discussed our meeting. Then I got a bit suspicious of her and the agency she was using (more suspicious of the agency than her) and I stopped writing for awhile. She continued to write and convinced me to continue our correspondence. She tells me I'm the only one she writes to. I have "free" memberships on a number of FSU/MOB sites and have not found her profile. I figure that she's either telling me the truth or has enough guys on the hook and doesn't need to post a profile anywhere else?

She's 25yo. As I said, a bit younger than I was looking for, but we seem to have a connection? Back to the Ukrainian girls and school. As I said, I've heard (I think it may have been a posting by ham?) don't bother with these girls unless you're willing to wait until they are done. She graduates this spring, so I figured what the heck?

I had proposed a meeting in early December, but she said she needed this time to prepare for exams and then to take her exams. I agreed based on what I had heard about how serious Ukrainian girls are about their studies. We are scheduled to meet March 1st, and I will stay in Ukraine for a week. Our plan is to make plans for her to come to the US as soon as possible.

Our e-mail conversations run anywhere from how cold it is to politics. We agree on many things and dissagree on others. We discuss family, friends, that I am not rich, how hard it might be for her to find a job here, I will take care of her, having kids and yes sex. But this was a subject that came up after quite a while as part of the topic of relationships.

She can be very confusing, which I attribute to the fact that she is first and foremost a woman, and secondly that she is from another country with a different culture. Let's face it, women like to tease. We talk about scammers and sex tourists openly, although neither of us can be sure of the others intentions.

I have told her that all I hope for is to hold her hand as we sip coffee in a coffee house at our first meeting. I have openly told her that of course a man would desire her, but that is not why I am flying to Ukraine. She says that if things happen naturally then that is what happens.

I sent her a present of champagne and roses for Christmas. Yup, I requeted that the delivery company take her pic! In a recent letter, she hinted that Ukraine orthodox Christmas is on January 7th if I wished to celebrate that with her. "But if you ask me about an ideal present for Christmas I would say that something feminine will make me happy. it can be anything? that can make me look female and desirable for you." Well, either she's teasing me, is as horny as I am, needs something to wear for her real hubby, or Igor needs something for his wifey, or there is something behind the letters? But I do have the pic of her receiving my last gift?????

Yes, I remain a bit sceptical, but not quite cynical. I'll find out March 1st!

Ok brunods, analyze this!!!!!!!![8D]

Train returns

ClueLessLuzer
12-27-2007, 10:56 PM
Hey People, I have been watching this thread for months with interest. I wish you luck in March. I'm sure that you will find someone but with what I have read - it won't be the one you expect. I really think that on-line dating will fail because in the end it takes the chance encounter out of the mix. You correspond with someone over email, develop an idea in your mind of who she is and what she is like and inevitably she will not meet some expectation. Contrast to a chance meeting - your standing in line at a store and for no reason you can figure you just know the women in front of you is single, available, and compatible - the sparks fly. That just can't happen on-line. I think dating in any country and in any circumstance is a crap shoot. You never really know the intentions of the women you are chasing sometimes even after you marry them. One could get so paranoid and wrapped up in the "what ifs" that they just sit here in front of a computer screen frozen from moving forward. I will be interested to find out how your trip goes.
I have been spending time with a Taiwanese chick - and all I can say is Asian chicks rock.

ham
12-28-2007, 06:58 AM
quote:You correspond with someone over email, develop an idea in your mind of who she is and what she is like and inevitably she will not meet some expectation.

males are easily fooled.
Sure, if she truly weighs 110kg while you have been corresponding with someone claiming to weigh only 55...if she has three children, while you think she has none...if she's 38 while you think she's 22...if her face was the model for Porky pig's rather than Joan of Arc's...
BUT!
If a woman is both young and pretty, whatever might be in her head or in her heart comes instantly second.
Face it, most men would not buy as a fraction of hogwash (all clear in retrospect peeking out of the divorce court ) from a ugly woman than they actually do from pretty young things.
Why are FSU scammers all the rage?
Why Philipino fraudulent "penpal centres" are barely known, in spite of their fraudulent nature and old records (reported from the 1970s)?
Answer: because even Kamala from Uganda wants some slim, ivory-skinned beauty (preferably blond ), while Philipinas are -in comparison- butt-ugly (that is why they enter the market at 15yo ), even side to side with Thai and Chinese women (muuuuch prettier).
A FSUW in her 30s or 40s stands good chances to still be extremely alluring, and to retain a significant share of the raging beauty of her 18yo, while a 40yo philipina might very likely look like a worn-out mama from the cotton field.
That is why Nigerian prostitutes are mostly underage (said a documentary), while eastern europeans need not to be.

swede
12-28-2007, 01:03 PM
Sorry if my language is a bit stilted occasionally, but after all english is not my first language. So I sometimes speak "academise" to be clear, and end up confusing a lot of people.

I didn't intend to start sociopathy as a central topic. What I meant is simply, that no matter your genetic, national, cultural, economical or social background, there exist some universal rules: You don't lie, steal or cheat. That applies to everybody in a situation, where you at least have the possibility of surviving. (Food, shelter etc).

And the girls on web-dating aren't exactly bag-ladies.

When you have sorted out the agencies, the non-existing women and the existing scammers, you still have the rest. Real women, who may be straight or not.

Where Ham seems to be concentrating on the overall-picture (and I agree to his conclusions), I center on the personal, pragmatic experiences, I have had.

I have before said, that maybe 20% of the FSUW on datingsites are kosher. My reason is: I have yet to meet an FSUW, who doesn't treat "truth" in an extremely flexible way. My dear wife, who is really a sweet little soul, often tells me: "But that's what I said yesterday. Today is different". Ofcourse it gives me the willies.

The FSU consists of a lot of natural-born liars, socially and morally like 4-5 old kids. Can you really cope with that?

I have problems about it.

brunods
12-28-2007, 05:57 PM
haha PeopleSmoks, very good description! :)

As for me I have made my evaluation of the whole thing and I figured out why I'm so disconnected from the girl I'm corresponding to. Basically she avoids subjects that she does not want to answer. For example I asked her about her ex-boyfriend and a few other things. Her next letter had completely disregarded all my questions and only talked about the weather and so on.
My conclusion after seeing a pattern over time is that there is no scam, just a woman! The decision then is that if she avoids subjects then she is no better than the other women who I don't want so I am not going to Ukraine nor renewing my subscription in end of January.

I will of course talk to her about what I am thinking and that I don't like women who avoid subjects or answering my questions.
You're probably thinking there isn't any like that... I can say there are quite a few who are very open. My ex. was, my best friend is also maybe 90% open. Now if the girl is only like 50% open then I don't want her. :)
Anyway I trust my instinct mainly, if this was something real I wouldn't be so indifferent to it. I'm corresponding still mainly because I find this interesting, I can save all the chats and later on write a book or just read them with my future girl to have fun! ;)

Conclusion of my story:

The girl is real, just not what I'm looking for. It is harder to figure that out through translated letters and easier to miss if the girl doesn't reply our questions straight away.

BTW she repeats in every e-mail how much she misses me, I find that annoying because I don't think much about her or miss her. :)
Oh well will tell her what I think lets see what she says.

What I did now for her to answer was to reply to her "futile" letter asking if she received my last letter and to answer my questions please. So the questions the girl does not like to answer or talk about:

1. Ex-relations
2. Us meeting in real life
3. My comments about other girls I know

For example at sometime I commented there was a girl here coming on to me and I wasn't sure on what I'd do. She did never said anything about it. So either the translators miss that on purpose or the girl avoided the subject. I think its the girl avoiding subject.
After organizing the letters into a document (letter + answer) in order it becomes obvious the avoiding pattern. :)
BTW if the girl would make money with her photos, she would ask us to look/comment them more than once, if we hadn't gone accept them. And of course she would know we had not accepted the photos or had deleted, that would call for some subsconcious reaction in the following letters. I don't see any, which is why I think they aren't paid commissions.
There was something odd, I remember right after paying my previous 2 months unlimited (150 USD) I did this twice with this girl and both times she "vanished" for a few days (3-5 days). The second time she came up with a story about being away. Since it was too few times to be certain I don't think it is very relevant anyway.. but if we cross-reference we can figure out if the pattern repeats with different girls. :P

BTW good luck PeopleSmoks!!!!!!! :D

I'm going to Estonia instead! :) I guess UA was just some kind of training for me, I never really expected to go to Ukraine, too many disadvantages for my taste. In Estonia I have free hotel to stay (client's hotel), family in Tallinn and business to grow. Much better bet to find my woman there. Someone I actually know in real life! ;)

Best luck to you guys! :)

PeopleSmoks
12-28-2007, 10:00 PM
Hey guys! ClueLess, or maybe not so clueless, thanks for your good wishes. As for chance meetings, been there, done that and what a f@cking nightmare! My X the heroin junkie wh@re is fairly well documented on these pages... a chance meeting.

I shoot for straight up honest with the girls I've written to, especially this one. Let's face it, lie now, pay later! Heck, I even told her I drink and smoke.

quote:males are easily fooled.

Let's qualify that ham. Men are easily fooled by those who possess the "magic box" and have really nice wrapping paper complete with large round bumper guards.[:p] And yes, I think they ARE from another planet! Either that or the devil's spawn!!!

quote:When you have sorted out the agencies, the non-existing women and the existing scammers, you still have the rest. Real women, who may be straight or not.
This is what has kept me going. Searching for that elusive few... or should I say, one! There are millions and millions of women in the FSU. There are millions of ads from FSUW. All of these ads CAN'T be fake??? Can they??? I have learned alot from these forums and it's been enough to save me from the sharks so far, but I still have to believe that there are real girls out there and that the one I plan to visit is real, or there's no sense in doing this sh!t, is there?

quote:As for me I have made my evaluation of the whole thing and I figured out why I'm so disconnected from the girl I'm corresponding to. Basically she avoids subjects that she does not want to answer.
Honestly, not answering questions is one of the first things to look for from a scam and possible form letters. Although the things you have listed could be sore subjects for a girl, but she still should have commented about it and told you she just doesn't want to talk about it.

Some girls maybe curious about your ex-relations and others may take the attitude, that was your past, I'm your present and future. Jealousy IS a two way street. I know that I'd be less than happy if my girl was to discuss guys she knows and hangs out with or guys "coming on" to her, but she wasn't sure??? I'd be p!ssed!!!

If you've talked to her about a real meeting and she avoids that subject, then things are going nowhere. What's the point of all the correspondence? Is she looking for a penpal? For $150/month??? P!ss on that!!!:(

With my girl, the subjects of scam artists and sex tourists has been openly discussed. I can only hope that there is no scam waiting for me, but as for me being a "sex tourist" I've told her that I think she is a beautiful and sexy girl. It's natural that a man would think of such a beautiful girl in such a way, but sex isn't the reason for my trip. I told her that, in fact, I would be happy just to hold her hand... I think I already wrote this stuff... Anyway, you need to assure the girl that sex isn't your intentions toward her, and if that is all you really want then... What I think about sex tourists could fill another forum topic.

As for a girl "vanishing" 3-5 days... think female monthly schedules?
It's a possibility? Yeah, I'm a sceptic, but not yet a total cynic!

Train returns

ham
12-29-2007, 07:09 AM
quote:This is what has kept me going. Searching for that elusive few... or should I say, one! There are millions and millions of women in the FSU. There are millions of ads from FSUW. All of these ads CAN'T be fake??? Can they??? I have learned alot from these forums and it's been enough to save me from the sharks so far, but I still have to believe that there are real girls out there and that the one I plan to visit is real, or there's no sense in doing this sh!t, is there?

to each one's own.
my opinion is that however seductive and apparently making sense, this argument does not hold.
So with so many millions people, and a given % of "nice" people, [u]therefore</u> it is only a matter of chance.
Yes and no.
How are one's [u]real</u> chances of winning a big lottery (even if not the millionaire lottery everyone talks about )?
We know statistical chances ought to be the same for every single ticket bought, right?
In the end however we have say 1 million tickets sold (which constitute the jackpot ) but only five winners...how's your chance to be one of them?
It is my opinion that WWW/LD "reality" and real life are worlds apart.
You just cannot superpose them.
Think of the swindle, smoke-blowing and reality-bending that takes place online and how harder -if not impossible- it'd be to go that far in real life.
Therefore I take a great abyss to exist between "real" people and "online" people...sounds absurd but it's true.
Online "life" is much like life in a movie studio...everything can happen...men in blue tighs and red cape fly around; a movie showcases 187 women and all can be beauty pageant; eccentric millionaires operate nuclear-powered mini-submarines in Atlantis...but it's fake.



quote:Honestly, not answering questions is one of the first things to look for from a scam and possible form letters. Although the things you have listed could be sore subjects for a girl, but she still should have commented about it and told you she just doesn't want to talk about it.


dodging questions is typical of scammers, forget virgin "good girls" of victorian persuasion who are just too shy.

brunods
12-29-2007, 08:42 PM
hahaha... well I think I didn't explain myself well. She does answer to what I ask. The issue here is that she told me she doesn't answer some of my questions because she doesn't like to talk about that specific subject. As for us meeting we did talk about it but she didn't understand what my question was exactly. I wasn't trying to set a date, just wanted to have an idea of what her thoughts are.

Anyway, by my answer to her I think you can understand the whole point behind it. It is totally unrelated to scams, has just to do with the personality of the person nothing else. I've met enough women to know they don't do it in purpose, it is usually the way they are nothing else. They don't know better. :)

MY ANSWER!!!!!
--------------

Nadja, as far as I understand up to now, when you don't want to answer something you just ignore it and talk about something else.

Don't get me wrong, I think many guys won't mind about it but me, personally, I really can't get along with someone who does that. I am the kind of man who will answer any question about any subject at any time. Mainly if the whole purpose of correspondence is to get to know each other, it doesn't make much sense if I would start avoiding subjects that I don't like/want to talk about. So much for being open... :)

As I said, it is enough of fairy tales. It is OK to share everyday things but being restricted to that is not really getting to know a person, which is why we are here I think?

The question you can ask yourself is .. do you want a man who will not answer what you ask and will only answer what he wants to answer? Would you trust such man? I wouldn't.

Do you understand my point of view?

Kisses,
Bruno

-------------------------------------------

What do you think? Was it clear enough?? hehehehe

I guess I just connected the dots. There are a few more dots but those are circunstancial. My objective was to understand her personality and principles. Just to know if she has what it takes or not. Seems we're just not working on the same frequency when it comes to being serious. :)

On my last letter to her I told her we have a communication problem and prompted her about being more open.

Her reply was pretty interesting:
---------------------------------

"Thank you for your letter! I undersand that it is important, but some topics I don't want to talk about some topics. Just don't like to talk about it!"

This was it. After this paragraph the "fairy tale" started again like if I had said nothing! So she really doesn't want to talk about it I guess. Bad luck then. Either we talk about it or we don't talk at all. Simple enough! LOL

Now about the scam part.
Do you see any reason for the girl not to tell me some stories about her ex-boyfriend if this was a scam? :)
If it was a scam she would answer and probably just come up with a story, would not refuse to talk about it and risk losing the precious 150 USD every 2 months. :P

PeopleSmokes, it isn't 150 USD per month, its for 2 months! hehe
Its just 75 USD per month, not really that big deal.

I am now very curious to see how the girl will react now that I put her in reality check! This should be fun. :)

I should know better than expect a 23 year old girl to be mature enough for me. :) I personally prefer older women even! I'm 29 and I like women between 26-33, I doubt any younger will have what it takes!
Shame on me! :p

ham
12-29-2007, 09:18 PM
quote:Do you see any reason for the girl not to tell me some stories about her ex-boyfriend if this was a scam? :)

hmm
most women are at unease with being tested for how "easy" they might be.
In fact, asking about her boyfriendS you make clear you want to appraise "the car's mileage".
Other women are simply shy or ashamed and don't want to remember the (many) men in their past, because it sends bad vibes about them.
I see a problem in that unwillingness to face problems might seem cool or "enigmatic" at first, but may very well signal deep emotional flaws (EG unwillingness to adjust or to face problems ), which will very likely come back to haunt the couple later with dreadful effects.
I met a couple such women and they are bad news.
Online or at a "merely dating" stage, she can walk away and refuse to talk, but in real, 24-7-365 life that can brew tragic problems.
In fact, it is unlikely their "unwillingness to talk" concerns only one topic, or a few; usually it is a lifestyle, a way of dealing with challenges & discomfort.

PeopleSmoks
12-29-2007, 10:59 PM
quote:to each one's own.
my opinion is that however seductive and apparently making sense, this argument does not hold.
So with so many millions people, and a given % of "nice" people, therefore it is only a matter of chance.
Yes and no.

In the lotery, it is a random drawing of numbers as compared to the ones a person has chosen. In FSU/MOB dating , it is a matter of two people looking for each other. I think this changes the odds, just a bit, among the millions. The random numbers aren't looking for you.

quote:"Thank you for your letter! I undersand that it is important, but some topics I don't want to talk about some topics. Just don't like to talk about it!"

brundos, what you elaborate on now, only goes back to what I said about some subjects maybe being not something the girl feels uncomfortable discussing with you. Tell the whole story, not just the part you think makes you look good. I always try to see both sides of everything. You first made it seem as the girl was not answering your questions, now it seems you were simply prying further than she wished to share at this point in your relations.

quote:Now about the scam part.
Do you see any reason for the girl not to tell me some stories about her ex-boyfriend if this was a scam? :)
If it was a scam she would answer and probably just come up with a story, would not refuse to talk about it and risk losing the precious 150 USD every 2 months. :P
Then, a paragragh or two later, you switch back! Which is it????

First you said you told her you could not visit her because of some financial crap, but now you say something different. Get your story straight! Especially before logging in here. I'm no fool and neither are the other guys here.


quote:I am now very curious to see how the girl will react now that I put her in reality check! This should be fun. :)

Do you simply write to this girl for fun? Is it a game to you? What if this girl is actually one of the few "honest FSU/MOB's" out there???:(

Your statements swing so far left and then back just as far to the right that it's impossible to figure out where you're coming from.

quote:I should know better than expect a 23 year old girl to be mature enough for me. :) I personally prefer older women even! I'm 29 and I like women between 26-33, I doubt any younger will have what it takes!
Shame on me! :p
This statement brings up another issue for me. If this girl wasn't what you are looking for, why did you spend $75 for a month of correspondence with her in the first place? At this point, you sound like just another "player".

Granted, I am currently planning to visit a girl a bit younger than my targeted age group, and I'm hoping for the best, but I didn't "play" with this girl as you apparently did with the one you're talking about.

Maybe Estonia is a good place for you?:( I feel bad for the girls there. Have fun "fishing".[V]

quote:I see a problem in that unwillingness to face problems might seem cool or "enigmatic" at first, but may very well signal deep emotional flaws (EG unwillingness to adjust or to face problems ), which will very likely come back to haunt the couple later with dreadful effects.

Possibly if the girl never chooses to discuss these things with you it may show signs of a deeper problem, but women can be a bit secretive by nature. Who here will disagree with that??? In the context as was finally revealed, perhaps this girl simply wasn't ready to share such thing?

Sure, she may be a scammer, but after reading more of the "story" I start to wonder a bit???

Train returns

ham
12-30-2007, 07:53 AM
quote:Possibly if the girl never chooses to discuss these things with you it may show signs of a deeper problem, but women can be a bit secretive by nature. Who here will disagree with that??? In the context as was finally revealed, perhaps this girl simply wasn't ready to share such thing?


this is the problem with WWW/LD things...
she might be another nutcase with weird psychology...OR just a person fed up with internet romeos trying to profile her.

brunods
12-30-2007, 09:35 AM
Smoks dont get me wrong, I was not playing around with her. I just thought if this goes nowhere at least it was fun. I am not doing it for fun obviously. And yes 75 USD per month is not a big deal compared to 1500 USD for a trip to Ukraine! I can't afford the trip but I can afford the 75 USD per month obviously! LOL

As you say maybe she is not prepared to share some things, if that is true then she is not the girl I am looking for. We have been corresponding for 4 months and a trivial issue like telling something about 1 of her last relations should not be a big issue that she won't share. I did talk to other girls in the paste and they had no problem talking about it. :)
If she was really open and interested in a relation with me she would have no problem talking. Anyway as I said, I am looking for a woman that is naturally open not one that only opens up after you hit her in the head lots of times.

Maybe for you it is acceptable to have a secretive partner and use excuse that she's a woman. For me it is not acceptable, being open is not optional and having secrets is pure non-sense, we're not secret agents to have secrets from each other. At least I think the story of her last relation is not a secret! lol

My idea about her is that she just wants fairy tales and nothing real. When I confront her with something more serious she either avoids it or disposes it quickly and abruptly. So I think it is possible her emotional balance is far from well. Again, I don't want a women who does that. No big deal, I'm not saying she is a bad person, just saying she is not a person for me.

I don't know what your experience with women is but I do not feel sorry for them. I was a very nice guy for many years, tried to please women and all I got back was being used, ignored or mistreated. So most of them are just not worth it even if it looks like they are. Many times I thought a woman was decent just to find out she was as selfish as the others.
There are exceptions of course and those are what I am looking for. :)

I think I picked UA as the idea sounded good, I don't want to use a lot of my time to go out with women as I want to be dedicated to my work and personal goals. Targetted online dating seemed like a good start but I had always plan B, it is best to just go up to women I find interesting and talk to them. The answer you get quickly determines the kind of woman she is. If she assumes straight away you're "another" guy without even talking to you, then she's either unable to distinguish a nice guy from a less nice or full of preconcept. I mean if I meet a girl like my ex-girl, she would talk to me normally even if I was a stranger. She'd try to quickly figure out what kind of person I am to start with then decide if its worth to continue the conversation. :)

I think its something like that famous "click", you just feel it when it happens. My best friend we also "clicked" in some way, we loved to talk to each other and we barely knew each other at the time! Then she invited me out for dinner and a movie!! Yeah.. she!! :P
We had long conversations for like 3 hours and got really close fast. Unfortunately she only sees me as friend and I also am not so sure I could ever make her happy, she's the only woman I know that I am still unable to figure out completely and we've known each other for over 2 years now. For me this is unthinkable, the other women I figure out in matter of days or weeks and here I find one who I can't figure out in 2 years! :)

I do treat women well when I meet them unfortunately they just show to be either arrogant or not worth my time. I've gone out with all kinds of women, ugly, beautiful, smart, dumb, average, fat, thin... :)
Well over 100 in the last few years...

Considering the world has billions of people and millions of women who are within the age range for me, getting to know only 100 or even 1000 is really not a lot. Maybe the kind of woman I'm looking for is 1 in 200 which makes it really hard to find. :P

To achieve this objective I had to develop ways to quickly figure women out. Not just for me but also for them so they won't like me too much which doesn't really happen anyway, they have a lot of guys chasing them, if I show too much interest I'll be one in the list only. To rise in the ranks I'd have to do a lot to "prove" her I'm worth something. Thats what I think its the problem nowadays, they don't choose men for who they are but for what they do to please them.

Then when things go wrong (again) .. they complain and blame all man kind! LOL

Its like picking an employee.. you picked him so why are you complaining that he sucks? Seems like you just don't know how to pick them! :)

I hire my staff by evaluating first personality and then skills. Before I picked by skills and that didn't go very well, some guys were just cash hungry so their ethics were flawed. Now I pick people who have the right attitude and it really pays off to hear my staff saying "You don't have to pay me now, you can pay next week, I'm ok with money at the moment."

This is just like women, you can find one that lets you pay for everything and says nothing or one that does not let you pay for everything and at least wants to contribute something even if it isn't much because she cant afford more. :)

As they say it is worth more a penny from a poor than 1 million from a billionaire.

How do you figure this out in online dating? ;)

PeopleSmoks
12-30-2007, 01:12 PM
brundos, the more you take the time to elaborate on your statements, the less you sound like a total butt-head. Some of what you said makes sense, but I still think you're going about your search with only one eye open.

quote:Maybe for you it is acceptable to have a secretive partner and use excuse that she's a woman. For me it is not acceptable, being open is not optional and having secrets is pure non-sense, we're not secret agents to have secrets from each other. At least I think the story of her last relation is not a secret! lol

If you can find a girl who will tell you EVERYTHING about all of her past relationships, good luck!!! Unlike ham, I believe that woman are from another planet, or possibly even the devil's spawn. They tend to have their "little" secrets, and usually, such things aren't necessarily a sign of a character flaw, depending on what the secret is. Being that it's a secret, you are left to wonder.

You also said the girl wouldn't talk about "one" of her past relations, which leads me to think that she talked about others? Perhaps this "one" is a painful memory? It was months before I would talk about my cousin's suicide, even with the girl I had been living with for 3 or 4 years at the time. It may even have been closer to a year before I would talk about it with her, and as I said, we lived together.

Again, it's hard to say if the girl you're writing to is real or a scam, but let's suppose she's real. Maybe this guy beat her? Raped her? Or died tragically? All subjects that she may not feel completely comfortable discussing with a guy she only knows for a few months via translated e-mails and a few photos?


quote:I think its something like that famous "click", you just feel it when it happens. My best friend we also "clicked" in some way, we loved to talk to each other and we barely knew each other at the time! Then she invited me out for dinner and a movie!! Yeah.. she!! :P
We had long conversations for like 3 hours and got really close fast. Unfortunately she only sees me as friend and I also am not so sure I could ever make her happy, she's the only woman I know that I am still unable to figure out completely and we've known each other for over 2 years now. For me this is unthinkable, the other women I figure out in matter of days or weeks and here I find one who I can't figure out in 2 years! :)

This kind of makes my point for me. You seem obessed with "figuring out" women, yet here is a woman you can't figure out and she has been your best friend for two years! Honestly, if you think you can figure out women, you're either disillussioned or gay.

The inner workings of a woman's mind is a dark twisted catacomb filled with pitfalls and ellaborate death traps specifically designed to cause insanity in men should we be so foolish as to enter.[:0]


Train returns

brunods
12-30-2007, 08:31 PM
Well I think you just made my point. Why would someone need to be gay to understand women? :)
Just because you or most man don't, it means nothing.

About my UA girl, she did not talk about any paste relations.
I didn't ask about any specific relation just about her ex so I can have an idea of what has been going on in her life.
Again, I don't see why would there be secrets if you really want to share your life with someone. Sounds quite ilogical. I know a lot of couples who do not have secrets, it is strange for me why would someone subject himself to that. :)
I have a friend who was rapped actually, I met her online about 5 years ago and wanted to suicide. It took a lot of patching to get her working well again... She also had another problem of being unfaithful to her boyfriends.. I mean not the normal thing.. she just let herself go with guys that she has a very intimate relation and feels guilty during or after. Had to show her what was going on so she could understand it and fix it. Now she's quite happy.

My best friend is a nice girl but has issues which is why I never decided to go ahead and really try to start something. We did kiss about a year ago and lets say she was quite happy about it (me too). :P
But yeah, I would not trust her to be my girlfriend. I know this because when she had her boyfriend she hanged out with me a lot and she did not tell him many things that she told me. I think the guy had no clue on what she was doing when she wasn't with him. Even I know she doesn't tell me some thing even though she shares the deepest things with me which she doesn't with anyone else but I know what she is not sharing and why. What I can't figure out in her is what makes her happy. I know what satisfies, what pleases, what she likes but not what really makes her happy. I mean not for a moment but prolongued happiness.
Thats the only thing I can't figure out in her! To really understand a person I need to understand what makes the person tick.

BTW Smoks, I have already helped couples solve their common issues like married couples finding the spark again, etc. So I'm not just talk, people look up to me like if I was some kind of oracle. Girls/guys would ask me to observe them for 5 minutes with their loved one so I could tell them what I see. I was able to tell they had an argument in the night before and what was it about, what they feel, etc. That by looking at them together for 5 minutes. Now imagine what I can do in 1 week!
And no, its no mind reading or anything alike. I can look at people and read their body language very accurately. It happens at my subsconcious level, doesn't take much effort but to verbalize what I sense requires a lot of focus. Which is why it is so easy for me to meet people... if you could see what people are feeling at almost any moment of the conversation, it is easy to lead to the right feeling. This also makes me a very good sales, extremely persuasive.

Resuming, if you think you cant understand a woman, tell me what you can't understand and I'll be glad to explain. :)

I hope I was able to take some mistery out of the way UA and the girls work. A lot of natural behaviours from the girls were being confused with scamming so I thought it would be useful if I would explain those and show the point of view of the girls.

If you think your girl is a scam, post here the story, I'll tell you what I think.

About your girl, Smoks, from your short description about the correspondence, it sounds like you have something real. :)

swede
12-30-2007, 08:54 PM
"He specialized in giving good advices to people, who were happier than he was himself"

(Cit: Tom Lehrer)

ham
12-30-2007, 10:28 PM
quote: So I'm not just talk, people look up to me like if I was some kind of oracle. Girls/guys would ask me to observe them for 5 minutes with their loved one so I could tell them what I see. I was able to tell they had an argument in the night before and what was it about, what they feel, etc. That by looking at them together for 5 minutes. Now imagine what I can do in 1 week!
And no, its no mind reading or anything alike. I can look at people and read their body language very accurately. It happens at my subsconcious level, doesn't take much effort but to verbalize what I sense requires a lot of focus. Which is why it is so easy for me to meet people... if you could see what people are feeling at almost any moment of the conversation, it is easy to lead to the right feeling. This also makes me a very good sales, extremely persuasive.


If I had a fraction of the ability you (claim you) have, I would not feel any need to wander the MOB route, or need WWW/LD romance.
Ah...did you meet women online claiming they had been raped, too?
[:o)][:0]
To me they are bad news.
I met a few and while I ignore whether or not they were actually abused, I tend to believe those were people with a frail ego and weird psychology trying to come up with some mythical story about themselves, much like real life sociopaths do: "society made me do it", "blame it onto the racists", whatever.

quote:I believe that about two women in three that you meet on the internet will exhibit a serious personal problem that you need to consider. For about one in three, the problem will be so serious, that you will NOT want that woman in your life.

amen.

PeopleSmoks
12-31-2007, 01:49 AM
quote:BTW Smoks, I have already helped couples solve their common issues like married couples finding the spark again, etc. So I'm not just talk, people look up to me like if I was some kind of oracle.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So, now you're a psychic marriage counselor!!!![8] Yet, despite possessing this most wonderous ability, you still can't find the right girl for you?????[:o)]

Do you also have a red cape and blue tights?[8D]

By the way, it is truly the fool who believes that he is capable of knowing that which no other man could ever possibly hope to know and understand. As in "understanding" woman. The more you may think you know, the more delusional you actually are. Trying taking up quantum physics and starting off with the third year class. I think you might have a better chance of figureing that out!!!!


quote:Resuming, if you think you cant understand a woman, tell me what you can't understand and I'll be glad to explain. :)

I can't resist...

1) Why do some women choose not to tell a stranger that they only know from translated e-mails everything about their past relationships?
2) Why do some women openly express their own opinions when they know that real men what them to do what they are told?
3) Why do some women think it's okay to say no or ignore a question, no matter how much a man may keep prying?
4) Why do some women search to find a man who isn't judgmental of everything they say or do, or have have said or done in the past even before they met?
5) Why do some woman not wish to be analyzed and have every flaw they have, no matter how insignificant, brought on trial by a perspective mate?

These are a few of the things I just don't understand about women. Maybe you can shed some light on it for me, oh mighty oracle!

Train returns

redprince
12-31-2007, 08:27 AM
Brunods,
I just want to add some of my own conclusions about #3867.
I have corresponded with her for 9 months and twice tried to arrange trips.I have cancelled my current trip and will lose about $1400 in non refundable air fares (two people) and more in agency fees.

The reason i do this is because i cannot justify throwing good money after bad.This girl is immature,spoilt and unrealistic.She has no consideration for a guy with work commitments who has to book a flight, arrange holidays etc to see her.Like you i do not believe she is a scammer-despite what the more cynical on here might say.Frankly i am shrewd enough to suss people quickly and if i have been scammed she is very very good indeed.

I just think she is immature,spoilt and a dreamer.Quite possibly she is looking for something online that is "safe and secure" and makes up for a lack or disappointment elsewhere in her private life.

I also sense a complete sense of insecurity- ref the large number of photos (you have seen them too) despite me asking her to wear some more clothes!!She just didnt listen.

I also found at times an unwillingness to answer certain questions.She never mentioned my birthday or exams in her letters.It was always about her.

Nice girl but seriously flawed and i have had enough so she has lost me for sure.

redprince

PeopleSmoks
12-31-2007, 10:04 AM
quote:I have cancelled my current trip and will lose about $1400 in non refundable air fares
GO ANYWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you've paid for everything already, and you apparently have scheduled your vacation from work, why not go? If you're a member of UA, why not visit the local agency?

Others in the forum have gone to meet the lady they were writing to and were disappointed. They paid $50, I believe, and were introduced to a different girl and seemed to be fairly happy with the results. Who knows, maybe that was the way the big picture was planned out for you?

As for #3867, I took a look. Cute girl. She lists her "occupation" as student. It hasn't been said, but how many years of school does she have left? This situation may go back to what I had read about "don't waste your time writing to a Ukrainian girl who is still in school, unless you are willing to wait for her to graduate".

quote:I just think she is immature,spoilt and a dreamer.Quite possibly she is looking for something online that is "safe and secure" and makes up for a lack or disappointment elsewhere in her private life.
Spoiled, possibly. Dreamer, aren't we all to some extent? Immature, I think this may be the issue.

quote:I also sense a complete sense of insecurity- ref the large number of photos (you have seen them too) despite me asking her to wear some more clothes!!She just didnt listen.

Two possible reasons for that:
1) Those are the only photos she has and although you send money to UA for correspondence, she doesn't see any of it, and can't "waste" money on having new photos taken right now?
2) She really is a scam front and is nothing more than what photos the agency has on file?

Anyway, redprince, I personally think you should go anyway. I just booked my flight to Ukraine, and even if something happens that my girl becomes a no-show, I'll be disappointed, but I'm planning to enjoy my trip just the same.

Train returns

swede
12-31-2007, 11:25 AM
Redprince,

I wholeheartedly agree with Peoplesmoks. Ukraine is very nice touristcountry, the locals are generally friendly and open, and once you get some contacts, it's not difficult to meet a lot of people. I stayed three months (which I'm aware, you can't do), and everywhere I went, people would say hello ...(my name) or wave at me.
I never felt threatened, even if I sometimes took a chance and went shopping beer or tobacco at evening in places, I would have been afraid of in west Europe.

Though there may be differences in various parts of UA, so don't be foolhardy either.

I believe, that there are small more or less permanent colonies of westerners living in Ukraine. Try to find their waterholes, usually they mingle with the locals.

redprince
12-31-2007, 11:48 AM
Thanks guys-i appreciate your advice and yes i do know another girl from Poltava who is nothing to do with UA ladys.However i have already cancelled the flights and can use the time to study instead.

I was probably a bit rash to be fair but that is life.

redprince

ham
12-31-2007, 03:16 PM
quote:I also sense a complete sense of insecurity- ref the large number of photos (you have seen them too) despite me asking her to wear some more clothes!!She just didnt listen.

I am deeply convinced that all those agencies packed with beauty queens with studio quality pics & videos are eminently commercial operations.
Sure, agencies are trying to sell you something, but a burger franchise is as well.
The problem is that agencies deal with romance and feelings, which cannot be assembled like a subway sandwich: i want turkey breast, salad, pepper but no onion please.
Take twenty random profiles from two such agencies in competition, and you won't be able to part the difference.
It looks like those disco events when they secure the presence of "body models" to attract crowds under the (unspoken) assumption that maybe -just maybe- you can romance one (as if... [:o)] ).
And i doubt she will ever listen to any of her 37 online suitors.

ClueLessLuzer
12-31-2007, 03:44 PM
Red, I'm sorry to say this but you need a reality check. Looking at 3867's profile one can quickly see what she is "selling"
http://photo.ualadys.com/photos/0/3867/898897_37314.jpg
http://photo.ualadys.com/photos/0/3867/898894_16322.jpg
Spank me baby, I have been a bad bad boy

Prometheus
12-31-2007, 03:56 PM
quote:I was probably a bit rash to be fair but that is life.

Far better to BE a bit rash than to CATCH a nasty rash. 3867 would require two condoms and a dental dam for safety.

A fellow seduced a beautiful woman and carried her to the bedroom. Upon removing her panties he caught a horrible odor and observed what looked like bits of peas and carrots in her public hair.

"Are you sick or something?" he gasped.

"No, but the last fellow down there was," she replied.

Prometheus
12-31-2007, 04:06 PM
Loser, I think she'll give far more than a spanking, but those boot heels are going to leave a mark. ;)

http://photo.ualadys.com/photos/0/3867/898890_46688.jpg

PeopleSmoks
12-31-2007, 06:14 PM
redprince, sorry to hear you cancelled already. The fact is, I just booked my flight over the weekend thru Travelocity. Non-refundable, but unless I die between now and February 28th, I'm going no matter what. Naturally, I hope for the best with the girl I'm going to see, but if it all falls apart, I'm sure I'll find something to do. According to every profile you read, all the men are drunks, so I shouldn't have a problem finding a bar or two!!! Under Travelocity's travel insurance, they offer 24 hr legal assistance, so if I get to make a phone call, I'm not even worried about that drunk and disorderly thing!!![:o)]

quote:Take twenty random profiles from two such agencies in competition, and you won't be able to part the difference.

Like I say, whether it's a scammer or a real girl, they're both trying to basically make a "sale". They look at what has worked in the past and just keep using it. I'm sure that 99% of the real girls who apply to any site have no clue what to write about themselves to try to attract a western mate, so they are "coached" by people at the agencies, if the ads aren't flat out written for them by the translator. Thus, every ad sounds basically the same.

Prometheus, that was foul buddy!!![xx(] And as for the heels, my eyes didn't make it that far south the first five or six times I looked at the pic!!![:I] Thanks for pointing them out. Good thing my old buddy Bethh wasn't wearing those when she kicked that guy in the head about ten years ago! What she was wearing put a 1/4 inch dent in the dumbass' forehead!!! Those boots might get stuck???

Train returns

Prometheus
12-31-2007, 08:37 PM
I just want to know how she lost that chunk of eyebrow... my guess is some dude snuffed out his blunt on her forehead while she kurite moju trubku.

Prometheus
12-31-2007, 08:47 PM
New Pack of Lies from UALadys.com

Would love to see some data backing up this!

First of all, let me explain that we consider ourselves more as matchmakers than a mere "introduction agency", and we have been very successful in matching our male clients to the wonderful ladies from our Gallery of Ladies. Our trips are very different from any other agencies. All the meetings that we arrange for our clients are private and on a one-on one- basis. We do not do socials where you and 50 other men meet a lot of women all at once. Compatibility is the issue and we pre-qualify ladies who will be compatible with you so that you do not waste any time meeting those who are not. We do not buy or sell names and addresses from other agents or agencies.

We develop our own through referrals from our existing Ladies interested in you and from people who know about our reputation. We interview and meet each woman in person to make sure there intentions are correct, therefore we know all about them, and we feel quite confident about recommending any of them. I have pasted a listing that may answer some of your questions. We can match you with ladies who are compatible to you.

Thank you for your inquiry regarding personal services


AN OVERVIEW OF OUR LADYS

Each girl has been interviewed and screened by our staff to assure you of their background and their intentions. We have many more new ladies who are not yet in our current database and we will get them online as soon as possible. For every one of the woman you see now, at least one to two have had rejected for a variety of reasons. We find that many women from this region posses the qualities that most men would want from a wife or a fiancee: education, culture, beauty, brains and traditional family values.

Social and economic changes in the area have encouraged the women to look at developed countries (America, Canada, England, Australia, Germany, Italy, etc ) as the ideal to raise a family. Thus a perfect opportunity for men who are seriously considering a lifetime relationship. The majority of our female clients speak and understand many different languages, having studied it at school. However, their lack of everyday practice precludes them from speaking the language well. Some women would rather not speak in public for fear of being embarrassed. However, when forced to, almost all of them can speak a few words. We have never ceased to be amazed at how quickly they learn 2nd and 3rd languages more than any other language.

The ladies do not have any preferences as to the age of their prospective partner. Traditionally, they prefer older than themselves. Many of our successful men have said that they never would have considered a large age difference. We often have been asked how many times a lady has been requested, or how many letters she has received. We do not keep this statistics, as we feel these numbers are irrelevant. Rather, as with listing an age preference, statistics can be different. We prefer to deal with realities, not numbers.

And the realities are:

1. Of every 100 men who initiate, only one will follow through with a trip to meet the Lady in person. A trip gets the best results.
2. 95% of the man who do go are successful in finding a fiancee or wife.
3. Many Ladies have been writing particular men very often end up marrying another man who goes there in person.

OUR APPROACH:

We view ourselves as more of MATCHMAKERS than a mere Introduction Company. We DO NOT BUY OR SELL addresses of Ladies from other agents. Rather, we take the time and effort to meet each Lady referred to us in person, interview her at length, checkout her credentials to make sure her intentions are proper, before she gets hosted as our client. It is this knowledge of the Ladies that allows us to select the right persons to introduce to each man.

Compatibility is the KEY. Our formula is simple, yet highly productive:

1. You fill out our profile, same as the Ladies
2. Select the Ladies you would like to meet
3. Until you have a predetermined amount of Ladies reply with a yes
4. During your trip meetings are scheduled on a private, one-on-one setting, with an interpreter to assist you (if you require one) We know that your time is limited when you go on trip. This is a very efficient selections process that saves your time and, in fact, allows you the extra time to really get to know the Ladies.

All meetings are one-on-one. We do not organize socials that do not work. Our service is usually based upon a male clients access to time and his available budget. The normal procedure is for a client to look through our gallery of Ladies, select the Ladies for pre-qualification, and correspond with them by e-mail or phone, than arrange a one-on-one visit. Still others, after viewing the Ladies, decide that the best overall approach would be to simply go there and meet as many women as we can arrange for them to meet, and spend time with them before making a decision.

Also experiencing first-hand their environment and culture gives the man a future understanding of his future bride. OUR PERSONAL INTRODUCTION TRIP HAS BEEN YEILDING A 95% SUCCESS RATE! Again, the reason for this is the growing frustration among the Ladies about the lack of follow through the men, Consequently, many Ladies do not respond to letters, knowing that few ever follow through. They simply wait to meet the men who go there. THUS, THE SITUATION HAS BECOME A DREAM FOR THE MAN WHO ARE SERIOUS.

During our Special Photoshoot Trips (e-mail for dates); you will get an opportunity to watch and meet new Ladies. Many times, clients pick these new Ladies because they are fresh and no one has ever met them before. We have quite a few Ladies who have never made it to the gallery because they got engaged immediately to the men who went no trips.

Prometheus
12-31-2007, 08:53 PM
http://www.worth1000.com/entries/165500/165724SxBW_w.gif

Thanks to UALadys.com and their proven 95% success rate. Even I was able to find an 18 year old Ukrainian hottie!

PeopleSmoks
12-31-2007, 09:02 PM
Who cares about you!!! How is Mr. Haney doing with the UALadys????????[:o)]:D

Train returns

Prometheus
12-31-2007, 09:23 PM
Translated by Natalia for Sonja:

Thank you PeopleSmoks for your kind and informative letter. I can tell already that you are the kind of man that I would like to know more about!

This is New Years Eve, and a very important holiday for all Ukrainian people. In Soviet times we would wait for Father Frost and exchange gifts. These days, we just get as drunk as we can and talk about the better times ahead when Babushka Yulena has her green card and all my relatives are living off some patsy from the West.

Eustace reports that he is very happy, but that UALadys.com has shut down his profile. He has relisted under a very similar name and looks forward to giving more missives from the front.

He is in the banya right now. I cannot describe how his obese, varicose body thrills me. If you have not been informed by management, we Ukrainian women greatly prefer the older wrinkly balls of a Western man. I plan to spank him good with the birch branches right now.

S'Novym Godom to all my Stop-Scammers friends!

PeopleSmoks
12-31-2007, 09:39 PM
How dare those bastards nix Mr. Haney's profile!!! I guess "Green Acres" reruns finally made it to Ukrainian primetime TV???

Train returns

swede
12-31-2007, 11:37 PM
Aren't we all a big, happy family. Without the women ofcourse.

Happy new year everybody. Against expectations they let me out for the holiday. And I'll go for UA tomorrow.

Prometheus
01-01-2008, 12:17 AM
quote:Aren't we all a big, happy family. Without the women ofcourse.
Speak for yourself. I am waiting for my FSU sweetheart to go out to the local steak & lobster joint, then back to my place for some champagne and a midnight viewing of "Irony of Fate" (Enjoy your Bath). It's totally a love/hate thing, but when she puts on that red teddy, I'm ready to swear allegience to Putin and move to Siberia. God never meant breasts that big to hang on a frame that small. ;)

PeopleSmoks
01-01-2008, 12:46 AM
Damn it! I burned my dinner. Now I have to get drunk and beat myself!!!![:o)][B)]:D Yeah, I know what you mean about the red teddy. The girl I'm going to visit looks pretty darn tasty in red too! And it is quite odd, the ratio of small framed, large round breasted women compared to the rest of the world? And they don't sag either!!!!!![:I][:p] If you could bottle it, you'd make a fortune!

Train returns

ham
01-01-2008, 07:28 AM
95% success rate?

hogwash.
I covered the item here:
http://stop-scammers.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=759

PeopleSmoks
01-01-2008, 06:45 PM
I can't be 100% sure, but I think he was being sarcastic!!!![:0]

Train returns

ham
01-01-2008, 07:13 PM
quote:Originally posted by PeopleSmoks

I can't be 100% sure, but I think he was being sarcastic!!!![:0]

Train returns



[:o)] I know [^]

Suckered
01-01-2008, 09:28 PM
I am totally amazed at the long list of responses to ualadys as compared to others on stopscammers. Obviously they have been rather successful at pulling us in with their irresistable BAIT!!! WHAT a barbed hook they are using. It must be a triple hook cause we can't seem to get it out of our mouths completely. I have a suggestion for everyone that is interested in travelling to the Ukraine in search of the feeding frenzy that we are looking for. Can we organize ourselves enough to arrange a charter flight for our group and assist each other to visit the cities and various branches "AS A GROUP"? I think that this may be safer and less costly. Is there anyone here that thinks this may be a workable option?

Cal Stubbington

Prometheus
01-02-2008, 03:05 PM
Reflections on New Years Eve...

My friend Oksana from Chelyabinsk carved on a lobster tail the size of my fist, and complained about the restaurant's decor, the music, the service, and the fact that her lobster may have been frozen at some point en route to her table. She finally dipped a big bite in drawn butter and stuffed it in her maw before exclaiming, "THIS PLACE SUCKS!"

I put down my fork and calmly commented, "'Sucks' is sleeping under a bridge, using cardboard for insulation, and sharing a bottle of Mad Dog with your homeless compatriots who haven't bathed in a month. . . This does NOT suck."

She looked at me with a uncomprehending expresion. Her 60 year old husband just rolled his eyes.

It is amazing how quickly these FSU gals forget the tiny Soviet tenements they grew up in. Surely they never greeted the New Year in such a fashion back home.

ClueLessLuzer
01-02-2008, 03:40 PM
I am sadded but also glad to hear that Eustace's profile has been removed. On the brighter side it means that someone from UA is monitoring this thread. If so, they also know that Peoples will be there for a visit in February and that he is looking for his "beloved"
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x164/anotheridiot_photos/00003039.gif
I am sure they also know his trip will be reported here and might give him some extra attention.
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f263/jjglith/Web/New/hotnessav9.gif

Prometheus
01-02-2008, 05:21 PM
Don't get too excited. Mr. Haney's profile is still up, he just has not had an email in quite some time. I think even the scammers drop stale profiles that have not ponied up the coin for some videos, language lessons, and the ubiquitous $7 email translation! Rest assured that Eustace has created a "new" profile and should be swimming in offers again soon.;)

PeopleSmoks
01-02-2008, 07:25 PM
quote:"THIS PLACE SUCKS!"
Maybe she might have appreciated it more if she had to fork out what is probably a weeks salary in many FSU states, for that lobster tail dinner!!! Kudos to you for saying something!!! You should have shown her the dumpster out back where "homeless Mickey" is rummaging for his New Years feast, and ask if it looked familiar?

quote:I am sure they also know his trip will be reported here and might give him some extra attention.

Um... no... I'm not going to meet a UALadys girl, although I do have a "free" membership. I didn't like the set up and never bothered with them. I still get letters from girls every once in awhile (including some discussed here), even though my profile has just been sitting there. I'm not even sure if I have a pic posted???

Three cheers for Mr. Haney!!! Hoorah! Hoorah!! Hoorah!!!

Train returns

Prometheus
01-03-2008, 07:08 PM
It was a year ago today that the old CC website went down and a couple of dozen guys showed up here trying to figure out what went wrong. In the process a lot of guys eyes were opened up, including my own.

Happy Anniversary!

brunods
01-04-2008, 10:17 AM
Prince I agree with you, she is spoiled, easy to see that. :)
Looks to me like a momy/dady girl, her parents spoil her.

I already posted what I think and I agree on your conclusions. I also thought that "put some clothes on". hehe

In the last letter she said she would try to answer my question about her ex-relation so I didn't write back and of course the result is that she hasn't written back as well. I'd say if she has no mail to reply to she doesn't even remember me! Must be dozens! :p

I think the girl might be virtual-relation addicted! To fill in the gap in her personal needs she has virtual-relations with guys through UA. Either way, a troubled young woman. :)




Now answering PeopleSmoks:

I said no psychic stuff! :P
As you can imagine there is no straight answer without looking at specifics, only probably answers. The most likely one is determined by evaluating each specific situation and factors envolved.



1) Why do some women choose not to tell a stranger that they only know from translated e-mails everything about their past relationships?

They might not see the "stranger" as someone they trust enough to open up or might not even be interested at all in opening up and prefer chatting about pleasant things. This would happen if for example you have a person who you do not want as friend but you want to know better for some reason. I can see as reason for them to know how life is in other countries, how things work, how men think and so on without actually having to expose themselves.

Other women just are not used to open up or might have had a really nasty ex-relation which they do not feel confortable to tell the TRANSLATOR. Yes! And mainly because the translator probably lives in her city and knows her, might feel awkard. That's the problem of telling things through a 3rd person.



2) Why do some women openly express their own opinions when they know that real men what them to do what they are told?

The "woman independent act" lol... they just want to play a role instead of being puppets.
The phrase is a bit confusing, "Woman know that real man want them to do what they are told?"
Sounds like a boss-employee relation? :)



3) Why do some women think it's okay to say no or ignore a question, no matter how much a man may keep prying?

Many women believe they should keep a misterious atmosphere instead of giving it all out for free.
Others just don't want to answer some questions because it might compromise them or their answer would not be what you want to hear so they rather avoid a more negative reaction by not answering.



4) Why do some women search to find a man who isn't judgmental of everything they say or do, or have have said or done in the past even before they met?

They want to have it all in one. One woman once said she doesn't need one man but needs many. One to be her best friend, one to be a great lover, one to be rich, etc. She didn't believe she would find it all in one man.
This includes men who criticise them, you would also not like to have a woman criticising everything you do or say, same goes for them. Generally most people (men and women) do not know what they really want. Or what they think they want is not what its good for them. I often have this situation of telling someone they aren't looking for the right type of guy/girl which is why they end up with ****ty relations all the time. Then I explain why and where the flaws are so they can fix them.


5) Why do some woman not wish to be analyzed and have every flaw they have, no matter how insignificant, brought on trial by a perspective mate?

They want to feel accepted as they are, with flaws included. If you saw that movie "My best friend's marriage" the fiancee at some point says they both make a big list of each others flaws and the point where she decided he was the one, she threw that list away. That means she had accepted him as he is. I'm sure you would also like to have a woman who accepts you as you are? :)



To Prince:

I know how that feels like Prince, I had a trip booked to Venice with hotel included and the girl in last week tells me her ex-boyfriend who she didn't see or talk for 2 years and was living in Hong Kong just returned to UK and wants to marry her! LOL
And yeah she is now married with him... she didn't tell me but I saw in her e-mail signature her last name had changed. Then she confirmed. She has been here in Portugal meanwhile for a few days for a conference so I got to meet her and see what I missed. Her ex saved my ass!!!! He can keep her! :)

So now even if I think I really know someone from talking online I put a very high chance of my idea of that person not being real.

My best proof of that was when I was 18 I had long hours of online talks with this girl from the south and we really were crazy about each other, she had an amazing sense of humor and we got along really incredibly. Then I went to spend a day with her and took the logs of our conversations with me for us to read and have a laugh. When she said her meaning on some of the conversations I realized I had interpreted some of the things in the wrong way as well as she had with some of the things I said. The night was really cool but after that she kind of "dumped" me said it would never work out because we lived far away. And yeah she was right but I was so "blinded" that I didn't see it. Anyway she had some stupid reactions which were not like the girl I talked to online and after that day she vanished and ignored me.

I was thrashed for a few months and only got over it when I finally got her to talk to me, only to see she had a very different personality and even her sense of humor was not the same.

Had also a relation with a woman who was 37 when I was 21, she claimed to be 28 and even her friends thought she was 28!! We had a really steamy relation and she had an amazing body, everything was going well until suddenly she vanishes without a word then tells me she needs some time. Resuming, after my FBI investigation I got into her e-mail account and found out what was wrong. She was much older than she said, she had met a guy and had a relation with him but it was a guy more close to her age. So I thought ok now I feel reliefed, it makes sense that she would look for a more real relation since she's much older than me but still it was not nice what she did. I confronted her and told her everything I could do to ruin her life like telling her mother what she was doing, telling the guy how she was fouling young boys telling them she was 28, etc. Then I said something like this "But no, I'm not going to do any of those things, instead I'll rather forget you exist. Just keep in mind the next guy might be not so nice and really screw up your life."
She felt like **** and started crying saying "I'm not a monster" hehe
Nasty stuff! Still it was the hottest relation I ever had!!!!!! Our first time we had sex for 3 or 4 hours straight and she barely had strenght to move anymore which now I understand since she was much older, her stamina was decreased! LOL

Anyway, any more questions about the girl psychics, feel free to ask. Have to get back to work now! :)

PeopleSmoks
01-04-2008, 10:31 AM
brundos, thanks for answering what should have been the questions you should have asked. Now look at the answers you gave and think about them. You are pushy about getting answers you want.

quote:They might not see the "stranger" as someone they trust enough to open up or might not even be interested at all in opening up and prefer chatting about pleasant things.
You seem to want to find your perfect girl... one who will agree with your every thought

quote:they just want to play a role instead of being puppets.

Again, you pry and pry into a woman's life trying to get answers she may not wish to share.

quote:Many women believe they should keep a misterious atmosphere instead of giving it all out for free.

You give me the sense that you are constantly "evaluating" everything. How many woman want this? Here's your own answer...

quote:I often have this situation of telling someone they aren't looking for the right type of guy/girl which is why they end up with ****ty relations all the time. Then I explain why and where the flaws are so they can fix them.
Now take a look at what you keep looking to find???

quote:They want to feel accepted as they are, with flaws included.
Thank you for showing just how silly your expectations really are, since you won't listen to anyone else, maybe you will take your own advise.

Train returns

swede
01-04-2008, 12:50 PM
I wish, I was also a great lover, a five-minutes-succesful-therapist, a brilliant analyst, a supersalesman and with an unbeatable intuition and selfconfidence. But being occasionally in contact with inner and outer reality, I'm to my sorrow hampered in this.

ham
01-04-2008, 04:11 PM
quote:Originally posted by swede

I wish, I was also a great lover, a five-minutes-succesful-therapist, a brilliant analyst, a supersalesman and with an unbeatable intuition and selfconfidence. But being occasionally in contact with inner and outer reality, I'm to my sorrow hampered in this.


The only exceptional thing I can do is squeezing oranges with my butt-cheeks, but I'm not nearly as skilled as my cousin, who earns six figures living doing just that a couple evenings a week wearing a tuxedo.
I got a few "self-help" $19.99 books (for free, via P2P ) and I just cannot believe how these "ultimate guides" read like.
One pontificating idiot claims his wife was a "professional model" (no less huh? ), but after she cheated on him & left, he taught himself hypnosis and other "bad guy" tricks and now he can literally "order" women to have sex with him or an orgasm as many times as he wishes, and has womanized dozens.
Another loon instructs you to become a self-taught martial artist...you too can in under 6 months reading his book, then women will start falling to your feet; the same suggests you glamourize your job (EG pool boy becomes fluids engineer ).
A third moron recycles (without giving credit) ideas from a better known popcorn psychologist and offers to guide you to three easy steps to lay women basically talking slick (as if...).
Investment miracles usually ask to send ten dollars to a PO box, and they'll "prove" the method is valid sending $100 back...yes, Zimbabwe $, if anything; or some urge you to buy junk stocks "guaranteed to triple within a week", as if it wouldn't be easier to do it themselves...
They usually try to sweep you off your feet with some unheard of, exaggeratory claim, like "Do you think you need to be a model or a millionaire to lay hot women? You don't".
Fine -you say- here is some empathetic soul who wants to share the holy grail...
Then they qualify their statement "if, but, provided that, as long as, yet "...
So to sum the dung from a few of these self-help experts, one ought to:
* talk slick like a cold-calling pro able to sell refrigerators to Eskimos
* be a self-defense expert
* be a head shrinker who puts Freud to shame
* be an hypnosis guru better than Uri Geller was at bending spoons with his brain waves ( Geller was in reality a quack tampering with spoons before the show )
* perhaps you won't be driving a brand new Lamborghini but must drive something very classy
* your job ought to better be glamourized...as if she won't find out sooner than later that you do rub shoulders with NASA executives and wear in fact an uniform and drive expensive cars...when you park someone else's car or serve them drinks and address them as "sir, thank you sir".

brunods
01-04-2008, 04:38 PM
brundos, thanks for answering what should have been the questions you should have asked. Now look at the answers you gave and think about them. You are pushy about getting answers you want.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
They might not see the "stranger" as someone they trust enough to open up or might not even be interested at all in opening up and prefer chatting about pleasant things.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


You seem to want to find your perfect girl... one who will agree with your every thought


-&gt; Wrong, I want to find a girl who has a personality and strenght of character to say what she thinks and talk about things without withholding information or being afraid of opening up.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
they just want to play a role instead of being puppets.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Again, you pry and pry into a woman's life trying to get answers she may not wish to share.

-&gt; Again, the woman who does not want to share the "answers" is not a woman for me. Answering is not being a puppet. My issue here is that she should naturally answer every question just like I do but seems she's not woman for that. Again, I said many woman, I did not say ALL woman neither I said I want those who don't answer questions. I see that as a sign of either lack of trust or just a relation that doesn't work. Just like some men do not share some things in their life, women also. My case is different, I have no problems sharing whatever and so it makes sense that I find a woman who feels the same way. Clear enough? :)

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Many women believe they should keep a misterious atmosphere instead of giving it all out for free.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


You give me the sense that you are constantly "evaluating" everything. How many woman want this? Here's your own answer...

-&gt; Good point. I used to do that, now I don't and just be myself. Being spontaneous is totally something else. If I am in a relation where I start "evaluating everything" then there is a problem. Just means the relation will probably not work.
The whole purpose of my posting here is to evaluate so yes it is not just your impression that I evaluate everything, it is my intention actually! :P

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I often have this situation of telling someone they aren't looking for the right type of guy/girl which is why they end up with ****ty relations all the time. Then I explain why and where the flaws are so they can fix them.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now take a look at what you keep looking to find???

-&gt; A girl that I found when I was 21 years old is not a sample of what I look for and find now. My ex was a good pick, over time we decided we just hadn't much in common in terms of objectives in life besides travelling. It was decided by both after seeing we lacked conversation subjects for a while. Besides that she has a big heart, likes to help others, does not lie, has no "secrets", etc. After breaking up it took 3 years for us to really stop thinking maybe we should get back together! :)
And yeah we still talk sometimes.

I have had chances to have dozens of relations which would have been a complete failure and I didn't have them for that exact reason, I don't want a ****ty relation. And believe me sometimes it is hard to say no to a beautiful girl just because I know it won't work out. But what doesn't kills us just makes us stronger I guess. I am what I believe in.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
They want to feel accepted as they are, with flaws included.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Thank you for showing just how silly your expectations really are, since you won't listen to anyone else, maybe you will take your own advise.

-&gt; I take my own advice all the time.
I think I mentioned before that the kind of woman I'm looking for is not commonly found which is why I've been alone for a few years now. There's no sure way to find her the only logical way is to meet more people. For example I like woman who are scientists, it just thrills me to discuss genetics, physics and other subjects alike! The girl who I was speaking to, Nadja, she had psychology diploma in university so it is also someone with whom I might have interesting deep conversations. Of course I no longer consider her "real" after knowing about at least 2 guys who are corresponding with her and her course of action during the last few months.


I'm taking my own advice all the time! Which is why I chose to go to Estonia next! :p
I guess the best way to know if a woman is for you or not is to see how you feel when you're together. That talks more than words! ;)

But you're right I might look silly trying to actually discuss psychology issues here and bring some light to things you want to believe nobody knows and are misteries for every man.

At the moment I don't really care to find or not the "perfect" woman, if she shows up fine, if not its also fine. I decided it was best to focus on other things and along the way we'll eventually meet. Thinking too much about it isn't good for my emotional health! :p

Last time a girl told me she felt lonely and gave me her number I started thinking about it and started also missing someone then she just played hard to catch and we didn't even go out on a first date! So yeah there are stupid woman around. Just yesterday her best friend told me sometimes she calls her and during the conversation asks if I'm there (her best friend works in a restaurant). And I'm like.. it would be smart if she'd just invite me out or make herself more available instead of being alone waiting for me to "chase" her around. Because I don't "chase". :)

I'm a bit fed up of woman at the moment. If you had beautiful babes to go out with and they're all totally not interesting and only one or two you actually enjoy the company and many times prefered to do something else than going out with them, you'd have a completely different view on women. :P
Women are mistery when you don't have a lot of them to play around with. Why do you think gay guys understand woman better? They have a lot of female friends, really a lot. The woman know they aren't getting hit on by them so they open up easilly. Thats just it, if I don't hit on them and by the contrary even say no, they'll really open up! Some keep trying for a while and give up, others become friends/acquaintances with whom I go out now and then. I also no longer enjoy taking them out just to show off to my friends/acquaintances. I rather go out with an ugly girl who I find interesting and hear a friend say "I saw you the other day with a girl passing by car, she was damn ugly" and I answer "yeah but she's quite intelligent and I just love to talk to her".

Says the guy to the girl:
"If I hadn't all this money and a nice car would you want me anyway?"
Answer:
"If I hadn't this beautiful look and an amazing body would YOU want me?"
Replies the guy:
"Nevermind!"


Well back to work again!! ;)

swede
01-04-2008, 05:58 PM
Cit. Brunods:
"But you're right I might look silly trying to actually discuss psychology issues here and bring some light to things you want to believe nobody knows and are misteries for every man."

Having studied psychology at university some years, and later worked professionally in that area 10-15 years, I personally fail to see what light and demystification, you bring to anything. Your never-ending biography, with it's many juicy details of the stunners, you sometimes refrained from being seduced by, can hardly be described as a revolutionary step forward in psychology. But as the above cited sentence is difficult to interpret, I maybe got you wrong.


Cit. Brunods:
"At the moment I don't really care to find or not the "perfect" woman, if she shows up fine, if not its also fine."

You seem to be using a considerable amount of time and energy on a subject, you don't care about. Or is it the venerable zen-master speaking here, having reached total equilibrium and non-attachment?


Cit. Brunods:
"I decided it was best to focus on other things and along the way we'll eventually meet. Thinking too much about it isn't good for my emotional health! :p"

Well, for every boy there is a girl. And may I propose, that you change your last meaning to: "Writing too much about it, isn't good for my emotional health".
And for that matter, for everyone else's.

brunods
01-04-2008, 06:09 PM
LOL... OKie, I wont be posting anymore. :)

BTW I got a reply from Nadja today!!! OMG I AM SO INLOVE! :P

Good luck to you all.

swede
01-04-2008, 08:52 PM
After having re-read Ham's merrily multi-layered "snake-oil" contributions a few times and comparing them to my own ruminations about reality and sociopathy, I will, inspired by Brunod's enlightenment crusade, share my conclusions with all you wisdom-seekers out there. A bit at length, I'm sad to say.

Some years ago I had a kind of relationship with a 20 years younger (western) girl, a former Playboy pinup (believe it or not). Unfortunately she was also deeply alcoholic and would have pinched my last penny, if she'd had the chance. But we both knew that, and as I kept an open eye on my credit card and the silverware, when she was staying at my place, we never had any big problems about it. Even through the mists of her daily pint or two of vodka, she would be good company; witty, intelligent and in good communication with the surrounding world.

And the last point is exactly, what made her different from her FSU-sisters-in-trade (alcoholics or not). The average FSUW does not have an inner reciever picking up Radio Reality. Reality defined as the ability to understand and react to such concepts as cause/effect, consequence, respecting personal space, social awareness, responsibility etc. Instead they have a constant inner dialogue or inner theater going on. To call them daydreamers would be a gross understatement, and the usual description "enigmatic" is just a diplomatic way of saying "planet Fantasia".

At best this manifests in inability to walk down a pavement without bumping into people, exaggerated consumption of soap-operas, talk shows, women's weeklies
and overpriced fashionclothes and a flexible attitude to "truth".

At worst they are what scammees tell about.

In both cases they totally lack the inner compass-needle, which my alcoholic friend after all had. She had, in her own crooked way, some limits, some pride and some essens. In the FSUW you generally meet emptiness and confusion mixed with some caricature-version of the american dream. It's impossible or at least very difficult to
communicate with pink candyfloss-stuffed vacum, and no matter how intelligent, humouristic, well-educated, feminine or pretty the wrapping is (and it often is), it will drive even the most desperate wimp to despair eventually.

So, if you're not a sex-tourist, the western equalent of the scammers, only the other way round ("Wow, first I met this HOT girl, and then this, and then ten more, and
wouldn't I have liked to .....!! ... her knickers, and I almost made it, ......every time. Wow again"), I recommend a self-betterment course in "How to live together with emptiness". Maybe Ham has some suggestions as to a booklet on the subject. Personally I think, that a few years in a buddhistic monastery could possibly prepare you..

Ofcourse there's a slight chance, that you end up in Realityville and meet miss Right. In that case, it's your duty as a citizen to inform everyone here. And if possible, to arrange for her sisters, cousins and divorced mother to go west also. I remember, when I first time saw an Okapi (they were considered extinct, when I was a child).

Brunods, I'll see your "retirement" as oracle, before I believe it. But I shall miss you (for once I'm not being sarcastic).

brunods
01-04-2008, 09:09 PM
LOL I didn't retire, just will let you guys talk now.

I hope I inspired more people to participate and tell their stories. :)

PeopleSmoks
01-04-2008, 09:32 PM
quote:Some years ago I had a kind of relationship with a 20 years younger (western) girl, a former Playboy pinup (believe it or not). Unfortunately she was also deeply alcoholic and would have pinched my last penny, if she'd had the chance. But we both knew that, and as I kept an open eye on my credit card and the silverware, when she was staying at my place, we never had any big problems about it. Even through the mists of her daily pint or two of vodka, she would be good company; witty, intelligent and in good communication with the surrounding world.

A 20yo Playboy pin-up alcoholic??? Man where can I find this girl???:D:D:D
What you said about FSUW's goes to something I had before. I have heard that the scammers are consider to be no more than business people in these countries. They "sell" a fantasy to western men, and if the guy is willing to buy it, okie dokie then.

Also that "real" girls live in a fantasy word created buy western TV, and actually expect what they see to be real when they get here.

As for "sex-tourists", I think they're sh!t that needs to be flushed right along with the scammers!!! I feel that they help to perpetuate the scamming in many ways and scare off some poor, honest girls. Unfortunately, these low-lifes apparently "score from time to time.

brundos, I'm glad you didn't retire. You're fun to play with!!![8D]

ham, I gotta see you squeeze those oranges buddy!!![:o)]

Train returns

ham
01-04-2008, 09:50 PM
quote:In the FSUW you generally meet emptiness and confusion mixed with some caricature-version of the american dream.

well, although taken to the extreme (for need of "bailing out" or money ) in the FSU-MOB case, this best epitomizes WWW/LD dating. A "dating advice" page with a roster of many famous junk dating farms candidly advised that "people online tend to experiment with their identities".
[:o)][B)][:0]
What does ANYONE expect when visiting a Shakespeare workshop, no matter how provincial or poorly funded?
Do people wearing capes, daggers, garters and collars, speaking funny language and throwing gauntlets at every offence look out of place?
Of course not: it's a theatre workshop after all.
If people dressed, behaved and talked like that in real life, they'd soon enjoy public welfare in a padded cell wearing a straitjacket.
Internet dating is mostly the same.
One might not end up in a padded cell claiming that the next million will be the eight in his bank account; or that she is a traditional woman with 1950s values (while she's known as "cherry forever fifty cents" to the football, volleyball, basketball, hockey & polo teams...ah, and the fire brigade, too [:o)] ), but they'll end up as the joke in town and people will consider them mere entertainment.
internet dating is no different.
"honest used cars salesmanship"?
as honest as you want it to be, there'll always be flat tires, rust, mileages, weak batteries and unpaid street tax you might want to avoid emphasizing, right?

swede
01-04-2008, 11:25 PM
Like Peoplesmoks, I'm also glad to see you back from your VERY short retirement, Brunods. If I'd been to a new-age course in "Finding my inner woman" (which I haven't), I would have felt motherly protective about you. As it is, I just agree with Peoples, that you are fun to argue with. But I think, that an estonian woman would do you good. As far as I know, they are a lot like the finnish. Very reality-oriented, no-nonsense types. So try to keep your OMG-love-attacks under control, such comes and goes like a hooker's drawers.

Peoples, it's possible you can find my young friend in a shop for kitchenware; reincarnated as a corkscrew. You don't drink a daily pint of vodka for 10 years without terminal consequences.

As for the sextourists and the worst commercially oriented scammers/gold diggers, I can only hope, that they will find each other at the "adult sites" eventually; where the FSUW will learn to behave like any decent lady of negotiable affections, with fixed prices, deliverance as agreed and possible sleeping pills in your drink, and the sextourists will stop consider FSU as a discount-bordello.

Not being quite as sceptical as Ham, it would be strange if a few miss Realityville (l950 morality recycled) don't exist in a population of several hundred millions. My late father once had a pittbullterrier, which actually didn't feel the need to make compostmaterial of anything living around. So everything is possible.

Being a weirdo myself, believing in bleeding-heart stuff like vegetarianism, environmentalism, being nice to animals, not kicking children (at least not too often, or when their parents can see it), .......well, you know.... I know a couple of datingsites specializing on people like me. All at very reasonable prices (or even free).
One is slightly new-age oriented, and the worst you'll meet there, are women taking this with crystals, horoscopes and mothergoddesses a bit too seriously. For the benefit of the younger, unmarried generation reading this, I took a peep at the age-group 20-35, and they looked very nice. Though it's a neighbourhood site.

The other site is for vegetarians, and the disadvantage there is, that you'll have to accept living together with a hoard of pony-sized dogs, dog-sized cats or varied other unspecified animals, if you want their owner.

But still, that's to prefer to being stepfather to a FSU teenager. I would say 10 badly trained, not housebroken, irish wolfhounds to one FSU teenager. I've actually tried both. Wolfhounds and FSU teenagers. I would take my chance with the wolfhounds any time.

PeopleSmoks
01-05-2008, 12:55 AM
quote:I would say 10 badly trained, not housebroken, irish wolfhounds to one FSU teenager. I've actually tried both. Wolfhounds and FSU teenagers. I would take my chance with the wolfhounds any time.
swede, we can forget the FSU part and just say teenager!!! And yeah, I know the deal. I actually had an un nuetered, male, 50/50 dog/sable wolf. My infamous heroin junkie, wh@re ex-b!tch brought two kids with her. My wolf/dog was more disiplined than the kids, but that was the
b!tches fault because she let them run wild.[}:)][}:)]

quote:Do people wearing capes, daggers, garters and collars, speaking funny language and throwing gauntlets at every offence look out of place?

I wear that stuff all the time... and the tights feel oh so good![:o)]:D[8D]

quote:while she's known as "cherry forever fifty cents" to the football, volleyball, basketball, hockey & polo teams...ah, and the fire brigade, too
Gather 'round my children and let me tell you a little story. Once, a man was so tired of his new FSU bride lounging around all day that he demanded she find a job, totally forgetting that she didn't fully understand the American wage scale, spoke very broken English, and was dumb as a stump anyway.

She was eager to please her fine western snuggle bear, so she thought long and hard about what skills she could bring to the work force. Eventually, having realized after just over three or four hours of her pondering that the degree she spent six years earning in "The social-economic disadvantages of being a pigmy head hunter in the 21st century" at the Pediological University of Kharkov, left her with no true marketable skills, she looked in the mirror at her pretty face, large round breasts and tight tushy and decided to become an escort. "Eureka!" (A new word she learned on TV that week... maybe watching "Green Acres" on TVLand?)

That night, the man asked his FSU hottie bride if she found a job, to which she responded by pulling a wad of crumpled up money out of her already over stuffed bra, and dropped it on the bed. "What's this?" the man asked. "I earned $301 at my new job." the FSU smokin' hot arm candy wifey replied. "What job?" the man asked. "What did you do to earn $301 in one day? That's more than I make in a day!"

"I work as independent escort girl!" the buxom slavic babe stated proudly as her excessively pronounced buxomness proudly heaved and began to overflow from what appeared to be her little sister's push up bra.

"WHAT!!!!!!" exclaimed the man angrily. He fumed for almost ten minutes before realizing she made double his salary for the day. He calmed down and they talked about it. Then he aksed her, "But tell me malyshka, who was the d!ck that gave you the dollar?"

To which the bountiful bubble head responded, "All 301 of them!!!!"

Ouch!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey ham, what about those oranges buddy?[:o)][:o)][:o)]


Train returns

swede
01-05-2008, 01:40 AM
Cit PeopleSmoks:
"I wear that stuff all the time... and the tights feel oh so good!"

But you ride a Harley. You're EXPECTED to dress strangely. If you had a real bike, you'd never get away with it.

Thanks for your story, I enjoyed it immensely. I hope all the scammers, their pimps and the agency representatives lurking around here in the vicinity, did the same.

PeopleSmoks
01-05-2008, 02:51 AM
quote: If you had a real bike, you'd never get away with it.

What do you mean if I had a REAL bike??? It's only because of my former club status that I am able to wear the tights you know!!! It's the probates that have to wear the "boy shorts"!!!![:o)]

Train returns

swede
01-05-2008, 04:27 AM
Sorrry SmokeS, sorrry,

forgot about that. Us Goldwingers are only allowed to use shoulder-, elbow- and knee reinforced goretex, unisex style. And integralhelmets without sculls or other symbols of the darker forces on them. Tights are ofcourse completely out of the question; they are considered too daring. We are a sad breed, I know. We don't even do probating, every wishy-washy sod can join.

Though such a dress can also be used with advantage for protection, if you try to board some kind of eastern public transportation vehicle, like a tram or bus. The aggressive group-psychosis arising, when 20-30 people try to go in and out of the same door simultaneously, can be rather damaging, especially if middleaged ladies with menopause syndroms, brickloaded handbags and umbrellas are over-represented. They usually are.

Queueforming has yet to be a part of the eastern culture.

The dress also keeps you warm, when you have to sleep the night over in the tram, when the unavoidable breakdown of electricity, the railcollapse from metal tiredness, the weekly strike, electiondays and other minor inconveniences arise.

ham
01-05-2008, 07:45 AM
quote:My friend Oksana from Chelyabinsk carved on a lobster tail the size of my fist, and complained about the restaurant's decor, the music, the service, and the fact that her lobster may have been frozen at some point en route to her table. She finally dipped a big bite in drawn butter and stuffed it in her maw before exclaiming, "THIS PLACE SUCKS!"


wow!
do they forget!
Just short ago she was probably relieving foreign truck drivers of their "commuting stress" in a crowded parking lot after dark, and boy, did things suck...or get sucked?[:o)]


quote:Not being quite as sceptical as Ham, it would be strange if a few miss Realityville (l950 morality recycled) don't exist in a population of several hundred millions. My late father once had a pittbullterrier, which actually didn't feel the need to make compostmaterial of anything living around. So everything is possible.

My family owned several big, typically ferocious, dogs, including Mastino, Terranova etc.
They were harmless...i could open their mouth and pull their tongue without problems.
Go figure, FSUWs are likely to file criminal suit against you for not being the millionaire you claimed on the internet.

i never said decent women don't exist. I said 99 times that I think the internet is the worst place to find them. I never said millionaires don't exist; I only doubt they waste time online braying like idiots about their -supposed- achievements.
A "good, traditional" western woman is more likely to be found in a Mormon (or other super-conservative ) church than fooling online with Moe the truck driver, who in today's incarnational past is sir Alistair Lipton, lord of the manor, order of the bath: yea, his estranged 150kg wife Tessa, with mustaches putting Mongols to shame, is "ordering him to take a bath" since 2001, but with no apparent success.


quote: Being a weirdo myself, believing in bleeding-heart stuff like vegetarianism, environmentalism, being nice to animals, not kicking children (at least not too often, or when their parents can see it), .......well, you know.... I know a couple of datingsites specializing on people like me. All at very reasonable prices (or even free).
One is slightly new-age oriented, and the worst you'll meet there, are women taking this with crystals, horoscopes and mothergoddesses a bit too seriously. For the benefit of the younger, unmarried generation reading this, I took a peep at the age-group 20-35, and they looked very nice. Though it's a neighbourhood site.


that is mostly 1960ish hippie culture. Although fabricating soothing identities, that kind of girls is often not as compassionate or meek as they might want you to believe.
They might claim to profess say hindu beliefs, but they are not some meek Bengali cutie, but rather some brewing good old "independent" -or other resentment-packed- kind of western woman, so tells my experience.
In fact, most of these online new age freaks have typically changed along the spectrum: wiccans today; hinduists last month...in 2001 devoted to Satan and in 1999 were having sex with animals...

Prometheus
01-05-2008, 10:38 AM
quote:"All 301 of them!!!!"
ROFLMAO. Wasn't she married to that guy who was posting here last year about his FSU wife who "loves to cook" and is "always ready for sex" with him, even though he is unemployed and "going through a rough time right now."? Lisa Douglas loved to cook too... pancakes.

PeopleSmoks
01-05-2008, 12:07 PM
quote:Lisa Douglas loved to cook too... pancakes.
Oh boy, wouldn't I love to eat her pancakes! Seriously, when you think about it, the Gabor sisters are the perfect representation of FSUW's. Eva played the fantasy wife Lisa Douglas... slim figure with fairly large round heaving breasts, attractive, smart enough to let her husband always "think" he knew everything, and of course much younger than him.

Zsa Zsa Gabor on the other hand was truly a piece of work. Like Prometheus' friend Oksana from Chelyabinsk she wanted it all on a silver platter and lived a soap opera fantasy life of her own. I forget the number of times she was married and divorced, but she always married money, and took plenty with her when the divorce came around!

quote:Us Goldwingers are only allowed to use shoulder-, elbow- and knee reinforced goretex, unisex style. And integralhelmets without sculls or other symbols of the darker forces on them.
Most hardcore bikers in the US don't even bother with helmets, except in states that require them to be worn. Even then, we usually wear a turtle shell type helmet with a fake DOT sticker on it.

Train returns

Prometheus
01-05-2008, 12:28 PM
http://i.imdb.com/Photos/Mptv/1390/9271_0039.jpg

I could not agree more. If my FSU MOB friends were half as charming as Lisa, their American husbands would have little to complain about.

http://i.imdb.com/Photos/Mptv/1377/3950_0016.jpg

As my grandmother used to say, "You'll catch a lot more flies with honey than vinegar."
Never understood why she wanted to catch flies, but I think it had something to do with the days before HVAC.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a3/Eva_gabor.jpg/220px-Eva_gabor.jpg

PeopleSmoks
01-05-2008, 12:40 PM
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fergy/GaborEva.jpg
Prometheus, you could bundle Lisa up in a polar bear parka and mukluks, drop her off in the middle of Siberia, and she would still be smokin' hot!!! She truly is every guy's fantasy FSU bride, whether they fully realize the fact or not. Young, drop dead gorgeous, smart, sexy, witty, clever and that delicious accent!!! Mmmmmmmm!!!

...oh, the flies thing... people simply had really strange hobbies back then!

Train returns

ham
01-05-2008, 12:41 PM
quote:Hey ham, what about those oranges buddy?

My cousin performs tomorrow night at a Red Cross charity event sponsored by "organic growers unlimited" and magazines "Castration" and " Crystal Spirits".
The Dick van Bulldyke show will cover the event.
As you guess, only organic food will be served...and beverages.
My cousin will be squeezing delicious raw vegetables for the guests.
With a $2 donation to the "mail-order brides' battered women shelter" booth you get a free anti-hepatitis shot...

Prometheus
01-05-2008, 01:17 PM
http://www.maggiore.net/greenacres/museum/images/mus379.jpg

Hmmmmmm... Hotcakes Dahling!

PeopleSmoks
01-05-2008, 02:11 PM
http://www.tvacres.com/images/nude_lisa.jpg
As you may have noticed, I finally figured out how to post pics!!!! And a pic of Lisa Douglas exiting the shower is certainly one to use my newly found ability on.[:I];)[:p]

FYI, I did the math. Lisa was 46yo when she moved to Hooterville. I guess that's a testimony to the long lasting beauty of the women of Hungary/ Austria.

As FSU/MOB wives go, again doing the math, she was 23 years younger than her American hubby. I guess this stuff went on long before cyberspace came along!

Train returns

ClueLessLuzer
01-05-2008, 02:42 PM
Blah, blah, blah. I am tired of this psycho babble bull sh*t. Is this Dr. Phil's forum?

I want to hear about guys in the FSU trying to bag some babes - do they smell like a perch trawler?

What about guys planning on a FRU trip. How are they going to land a hottie. Have they thought through what is it like to be with someone that speaks a different language. Is there a need to be able to communicate beyond simple things like "blow me and get me a beer"?

PS
For you guys in or soon to be in the FSU. If you see my beloved Vika #5761 tell her I love her and will be with her soon.

http://photo.ualadys.com/photos/0/5761/small.jpg
She is my true beloved
http://photo.ualadys.com/photos/0/5761/886782_78318.jpg

Just another ClueLessLuzer

swede
01-05-2008, 07:02 PM
Hi ClueLessLuzer,

your two-dimensional approach to life, boozing and balling (if I get you right), is duly noted. Your prerogative.

But if you make this attitude into an absolute, it means, that anything not two-dimensional is psychobabble. F.ex. my own (maybe feeble) efforts of humour. And that will make you into still another bigotted missionary out on a jihad, if you pursue it. And I believe, this is what you are doing.

It's NOT OK for some of the guys to fool a bit around with photos of moviestars (as far as I can see not hurting anyone except querulous flatlanders), whereas you sending photos of your sweetheart for public wieving IS OK.

While I personally find moviestar photos uninteresting, what makes you think, that photos of your girlfriend are more meaningful to me (or others)?

If you prefer to live in flatland, or even zeropoint, it's your choice. But some of us like a few more dimensions. EG intellect, emotions etc. And in my opinion those guys you don't like (maybe/maybe not including me), have occasionally contributed with intelligent or witty posts. That's our choice.


If I misjudge you, and you are not exclusively reptil-brain oriented, some CONSTRUCTIVE suggestions as how to make this site better would not be amiss.

I naturally only speak on my own behalf.

PeopleSmoks
01-05-2008, 10:35 PM
quote:Blah, blah, blah. I am tired of this psycho babble bull sh*t. Is this Dr. Phil's forum?

Only when our resident oracle brundos chimes in!

As for Vika #5761, hey, I'd tap that!!![}:)]



Train returns

ham
01-06-2008, 07:06 AM
quote:As for Vika #5761, hey, I'd tap that!!!

didn't this one write to Eustache Haney, too? Or was it the indian Theodore?

kilroy
01-06-2008, 10:46 AM
UALADYS.COM IS A SCAM...i'm glad i found this site. i'd been communicating with this lady for a month and we'd been writing to each other almost everyday. i really had big plans and was planning on taking a trip there in march but she said to meet in summer so we spend much more time coz she'd be out of uni by then. anyway, i was glad and even had plans to have english classes organized for her.

i decided to do something fun today so i registered with someone's pix and wrote to her and guess what? i got the exact email i first received from her a month ago saying all the blah blah blah stuff. i then sent a quick email from my original add saying i was making an impromptu visit to her town with a russian friend of mine and so she shouldn't worry because i'd just pop in to say hello. i still haven't received a reply yet. what more do i need before realising this is all a scam? i'm glad i never spent much money. i'd have gone crazy. i think i'd look for someone around here. cheers dudes for the good work. remember not to get scammed. trust your instincts!!!

kilroy
01-06-2008, 10:53 AM
here is the number of the biatch!!! #4198

ham
01-06-2008, 12:38 PM
quote: Blah, blah, blah. I am tired of this psycho babble bull sh*t. Is this Dr. Phil's forum?

if you are wise to it, good for you.
I once wasn't and paid it dearly, so bringing it to light is useful.

PeopleSmoks
01-06-2008, 01:08 PM
quote: i registered with someone's pix and wrote to her and guess what? i got the exact email i first received from her a month ago saying all the blah blah blah stuff.
kilroy, I started doing this quite awhile ago and have suggested that others do the same before they get too involved with a girl. Through AOL, I have four different screen names and e-mail addresses. I have written to girls sending them pics of Perry Ferrell of Nine Inch Nails, some guy that looks like a military type, and even Daniel Graig the new James Bond. Just like you, I received the exact same letters that I had received the first time around when writing as myself. Of course, the fake guy's name was correct.

I think this can be a useful anti-scammer tool if guys would use it more. Let's face it, it's easy enough to post a second profile. The scammers do it. And if you think the girl is real after your alter ego receives a letter or two, you can just stop writing or tell her you found someone else you like. Just remember, she does apparently write to guys other than you!!!

4198? I'll have to check her out.

ham, I'm sure Vika #5761 has written to Mr. Haney. They all do eventually. The guy is a babe magnet!!!

Train returns

brunods
01-06-2008, 09:37 PM
What if you had a profile with photos or yats and mansion and pretend to be a milionaire to see how it would turn out!

Then say you're going there and will tip each person in UA $5000 USD for helping you find the love of your life!

That should spice things up a little.. ;)

I actually posted the photo of my cat in my profile and no girl ever mentioned it. Curiously I also sent photo of my cat to the girl I was corresponding to and she never mentioned it, only when I asked her about it she acknoledged having seen it and barely commented. Total lack of interest I think.

This other girl I was corresponding to long ago also I spoke to her once on the phone and I can say her enthusiasm was nothing compared to her letters, it just sounded like someone who doesn't give a **** about me. :)

If you want to get laid, go to Tallinn in Estonia, go to Viru Hotel there is a disco in the lower floor called "Amigo". Just sit around and enjoy the babes coming to you. Beware not to drink much and put your stuff in the room's safe or you might wake up "mugged". I'd advise you to make out with local staff from restaurant or even the hotel, it is safer. Either way, it is damn easy. Just let the girls pay you drinks... simple enough? ;)

Dr. BrunoDS out.

swede
01-06-2008, 11:25 PM
Anybody liking cats can't be all bad. Or the other way round. Before I always made a point of my cat-loving; women ignoring it would be out in the cold very quick.

PeopleSmoks
01-07-2008, 10:24 AM
quote: What if you had a profile with photos or yats and mansion and pretend to be a milionaire to see how it would turn out!
brundos, of course that would attract most women, let alone the scammers. But, google Perry Ferrell and take a look. It's a rare breed that would be attracted to this guy unless they know he's a rock star.
http://www.smartalecmusic.com/perry_ferrell.jpg
And that's without the 12" spiked mohawk!

And I guess if your looking for an STD, random sexual encounters with a strange girl you meet in a bar and take back to your rented flat to f*ck is okay. It's just not my cup of tea. Ask yourself, how often does this girl do this???

Cats??? To each his own. The biggest problem I have with cats is they're probably the only creatures on earth that are more devious than a woman!



Train returns

brunods
01-07-2008, 03:25 PM
hehe cats are wild animals... unless you show who's the boss you're screwed. And they do forget it sometimes if you don't remind them once in a while. A bit like in relations there is the dominant and the submissive, in any animal group there's always one who's the "boss". So if you have a cat, either there is a "boss" in the house or the cat owns you all! :P

My cat does not bite or scratch me and whenever he even tries I show him who's the boss. Finger down the throat when he opened his month and he learned not to bite very fast. As for scratching, a paw twist is very effective. If the cat feels he is successful in getting rid of you by bitting or scratching, he will feel that his method works and keeps using it. :)
As for mine, if he would ever scratch me in purpose I'd kick his ass.. or tail! :p

My cat learned a new method of getting rid of me, he licks my fingers when I'm annoying him and does a begging sound. :) If I scare him or run towards he just puts himself in submissive position by lowering his head and putting the neck vulnerable, its the animal way of saying "You won, don't hurt me.".
Sometimes he even falls over lol.. its funny.
Other than that we get along fine, he is behaving pretty well now so I rarely annoy him.

Cats act a lot on interest but I think there is also an affective side or maybe they just like us to scrub them. Anyway human relations are also based in interest if you really think deep about it. You are looking to be happy and for a person who helps you achieve that. So basically you are thinking always about yourself first! Even when you help others.. you do enjoy doing it right? So you're doing it for youself in a way... :P

Women just like cats and anyone else just want to feel happy, some are happy shopping others are happy with love, etc. It isn't uncommon to see women who act on interest to look for rich men but when you look at the boyfriends they have/had, they're either unemployed losers without any money or some poor guy. I have seen this happen many times, one girl who I went out with in 2004 she was into me for the money but her ex-boyfriend was a guy who had even less money than her and she paid for him when they went out.
How would you explain this? :)

Did you have similar experiences? These girls seem to need a boyfriend who abuses them or uses them for money. Maybe some kind of psychological balance? Dr. Phil are you there?? ;)

Don't be shy, share your "bitch wants sugadaddy" experiences! :p

Goddiejens
01-07-2008, 04:19 PM
Hi ClueLessLuzer,

your number 1 lady mailed me also:

"THIS LETTER WAS TRANSLATED BY EUGENIA FOR VIKA


Hello, dear .......!


Frankly speaking, I wanted to begin my letter from the Russian word 'Zdravstvuj'... but then I understood that you may not to know Russian and wouldn't understand me... You may not believe, but the most important for me is... to receive a reply from you! :)


I think you are a man many women are dreaming about. But you are still alone ... why? Maybe you want to find just YOUR woman? Hey, let's communicate to know each other closer... it may be me! ;)


I'm an optimistic, kind-hearted and active girl. My friends says, that I'm an attractive one. It's pleasant to hear, but I dream of finding the man who'll see my inner beauty, and I hope... no, I'm sure that you'll look at me not only with your eyes, but with your heart. It doesn't matter, how far away are you, who was in your life before my coming... but I see you as a man with a rich inner world and a kind heart full of love and inspiration for a great deeds for your future beloved. If it's true... I think we have to use our chance for a communication and to see what our future friendship could be develop in.


I'll be waiting for your answer! Please take care of yourself and don't forget that in this world there is a girl who is thinking about you because of your presious human qualities... This girl is...just me!


Best wishes, Vika"

I don't know what I will answer her. May be I will send her some regards from you.

:D

Goddiejens

ham
01-07-2008, 04:34 PM
quote: Women just like cats and anyone else just want to feel happy, some are happy shopping others are happy with love, etc. It isn't uncommon to see women who act on interest to look for rich men but when you look at the boyfriends they have/had, they're either unemployed losers without any money or some poor guy. I have seen this happen many times, one girl who I went out with in 2004 she was into me for the money but her ex-boyfriend was a guy who had even less money than her and she paid for him when they went out.
How would you explain this? :)

Did you have similar experiences? These girls seem to need a boyfriend who abuses them or uses them for money. Maybe some kind of psychological balance? Dr. Phil are you there?? ;)

I for one am among the few honest people online to admit that i am not a great catch [u]by a woman's standpoint</u> (which has little to do with objectivity ).
My looks are poor; i have no big job, money or status to make up for that.
I'm not into eating tarantulas and have no catchy hobbies, either; in other words, i'm doomed (like a majority of "headache gray" people you met on the streets ).
I think that women would by sheer instinct favor freaks, sociopaths and other homeless shelter or nutty house kind of guys; call it perverted maternal instinct.
Some are attracted to the "aura of coolness" that a minority loon provides, who by age 20 spent more hours in jail that at school. Such "bad guys" typically abuse them, and it is not uncommon they have to sell their bodies to bring bacon home to good old Jamal minding his brass knuckle.
Under a broad brush, most women are happy, in a perverted way; they have chosen to be there, and would probably do that again.
Their attitude and level of contempt and anger are minimal compared to stage 2.
Stage 2 gradually surfaces after several Jamals when she realizes time is running out and she must invest whatever is left of her "honor" to make her more profit than a couple clandestine abortions, a STD and perhaps a few black eyes.
So she finds herself a Barney eager to buy her story.
News reports here told of more and more gynecologists asked to give stitches to women's hymens to make them look virgin (there were so many cases that it sparked a controversy ).
No, stitches won't bring virginity back but assure minor bleeding during intercourse.
See where we're heading?
Of course now she is no longer following her heart but merely bluffing at the poker table.
Therefore, no matter the outcome, she will always feel resentful because -after all- she had to resort to this; to compromise to this point.
She might gain 1000.000 times more from Barney than from her Jamal, drunk Oleg etc, but she is annoyed and sees Barney's every flaw as a plank in his eye instead of the splinter it actually is.
Resentment will start brewing, all the more because poor Barney isn't after all dr. Kildare rolling high or some soap opera engineered fake.

We cannot fix human nature, but being forewarned arms men with the knowledge that such vampires cannot do harm if you don't offer them the neck.
Sun rays of reason are enough to dispel their magic and turn them to ashes.
Sure, there are men who are scumbags and play foul, but "nice Barney" is 100 times more likely to pay on their behalf.

ham
01-07-2008, 04:35 PM
quote:I don't know what I will answer her. May be I will send her some regards from you.

don't forget greetings from Leroy, Harlem; Pedro, Tocula; Wong, Taipei; Kamala, Uganda; Kojiro, Osaka.
:D:D[B)][xx(]

swede
01-07-2008, 07:07 PM
Cit Brunods:

"So basically you are thinking always about yourself first! Even when you help others.. you do enjoy doing it right?"

True, true. But as the recievers usually aren't moral philosophers, often only hungry, cold or sad, I think they will forgive the giver for his egoistic motives.

swede
01-07-2008, 08:13 PM
Ham,

it's true, we can't change human nature. But that's general. As individuals we have a chance to change our own.

We live in a world, which is being filled up with fakes of all kinds. A minor group of women and men is still looking for the true thing in a serious way. And we can change ourselves into being more true.

I'm one of those, and while I was not exactly overrun by women wanting to contact me on this basis, I got enough answers from nice, intelligent and decent women from several nations, when I was cyberdating. There's no doubt about the women's honest intensions, some of them I stayed in contact with as pen-pals for a couple of years after.

Had I known then, what I know today about scammers, I wouldn't have made the mistake, I made by going to UA to this specific woman. But maybe everything is so much tougher today, so my positive contacts from then wouldn't exist now.

Goddiejens
01-07-2008, 08:54 PM
Well, guys,

I go to Russia in less than 2 weeks from today. I date a lady in Krasnodar. At the end of this month I will give an exact report here. As I speak basically Russian and prepare myself with a good wordlist I will not be in permanent need of a translator there. After the introduction meeting of 30 minutes the translator will have done the job.

:D

Now they have minus 20 degrees there, grrr!!! A nice test for my Argentine leather jacket.

But the time is well chosen. The lady of my heart will have holidays. She will not be dedicated to her job. She was happy with my last picture which shows me as normal as I am. So we will have a good chance to come to a happy end.

Goddiejens

PeopleSmoks
01-07-2008, 09:00 PM
quote:If I scare him or run towards he just puts himself in submissive position by lowering his head and putting the neck vulnerable, its the animal way of saying "You won, don't hurt me.".

Now try doing that with a 125 lb wolf/dog and still have your face and you might know where I'm coming from. My ex almost crapped herself when I went nose to nose with him and he laid down.

quote:Some are attracted to the "aura of coolness" that a minority loon provides, who by age 20 spent more hours in jail that at school. Such "bad guys" typically abuse them, and it is not uncommon they have to sell their bodies to bring bacon home to good old Jamal minding his brass knuckle.
Under a broad brush, most women are happy, in a perverted way; they have chosen to be there, and would probably do that again.

Any woman that stays with an abusive guy is a friggin' mental case herself. Any guy that abuses women need their asses kicked in the most serious way!

The only problem here is that a b!tch like my ex lies so well, (I would say it was second nature to her, but that would be selling her talents short) that sometimes an abused woman may simply be vendictive.

Her ex-husband now sports a brand new front grill(teeth), courtesy of the things she told me about him beating her. The guy is 6'0" 220 lbs. She's 5'3" 100 lbs soaking wet. Sometimes I feel bad about it, but as it turned out, I new the guy before I met her and he had it coming anyway.

Which goes to what I said about cats... the ONLY thing more devious than a woman! brundos, watch your back! Your cat may be waiting to jump you when you least expect it!!!

Train returns

PeopleSmoks
01-07-2008, 11:19 PM
GOOD LUCK Goddiejens!!!!!! My trip to Ukraine is in less than two months. I sincerely hope all goes well for you, as it will give just the slightest bit of hope to the rest of us who are sincere in our intentions!

You might want to take more than a leather jacket though. I can't take my leather because it has too many pins, etc to pass a metal detector and the pins alone may not pass security check points.

Again, GOOD LUCK!!!

Train returns

brunods
01-08-2008, 02:04 PM
Guys check out Natalia O. #9304, I got a letter from her, she has a really nice smile. Looks like a nice girl.

And why I posted here is because she writes english, her letters are not translated!! :)

Even though she's kinda flat, looks like a good person. Go check her out!

swede
01-08-2008, 04:30 PM
Dreamdust on bottles.

PeopleSmoks
01-08-2008, 10:16 PM
quote:And why I posted here is because she writes english, her letters are not translated!! :)

Still costs you money to write her that goes in someone's pocket at UA. And no matter what, she will NEVER write to you outside of UA!!!


Train returns

brunods
01-09-2008, 03:24 PM
Of course she will never write to you outside UA, she would have her butt kicked and would lose all those dozens of "unique" man she corresponds with! :)

BTW Nadja vanished after my last letter where I asked her to reply to my questions and even put in a copy/paste of my letter with the questions as she did not know what questions I was talking about! LOL

I guess I am no longer the love of her life who she misses so much. But I'm sure she will send me a message after my unlimited e-mails subscription expires in 26 January! Will be a message saying how much she misses me and that she can't live without me and she will do ANYTHING for me to write to her again. :)

Translation: Money for shopping ran out and she needs to buy those new shoes she saw in the shop... please subscribe so I can get my shoes!! I CANT LIVE WITHOUT THOSE SHOESSSSS!!!! LOL

I bet she writes that in her letter and the translator just excludes the part of "I need money for new shoes" by "I need you" which is actually the same thing kind of... eheehhehe

PeopleSmoks
01-10-2008, 09:09 PM
quote:I guess I am no longer the love of her life who she misses so much.
Of course you're the love of her life! And so is Ahmed... Barney... Fong Tao... Gomer... Billy Ray... Sven... Mario... Juan... Kamala... and of course, Mr. Haney too!!![8D]

Train returns

brunods
01-10-2008, 11:40 PM
Seems I am again the love of her life.. or maybe not so much anymore?

---------
Thank you for your letter darling!I am sorry for so late reply, but I think that I am not at the police department and if I don't want to answer I won't answer!! I my letter I've said "I will TRY to answer", I not "I will answer"OK?
---------

OMG but I am the police investigating UA... so yes she is actually dealing with police! :P

Don't forget about Action Man, Hulk, Spider Man and others, they are also love of her life! ;) Godzilla also gives her quite a kick! hehe

PeopleSmoks
01-11-2008, 12:31 AM
quote:OMG but I am the police investigating UA... so yes she is actually dealing with police! :P

Hey everyone! Did you feel that? Just now when the ground shook... It must have been every scam artist in the FSU shaking in their boots all at once when they learned that brundos is the "police", and is investigating them!!!

"Knock knock"
"Who's there?"
"Reality"
"Reality who?"
"My point exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Thank you, thank you very much... you've been a wonderful audience!!!! Thank you!!!!

swede, would you say "sleepwalker" or possibly a totally new category? I guess the real question is, "Is he dilusional and actully believes what he tells everyone, or is he simply seeking attention by creating contoversy about non-existent subjects and proclaiming himself to be the foremost authority, thus reinforcing his own psycho-drama?"

Freud would have a field day.:D

Train returns

skipped
01-11-2008, 01:00 AM
Personally, I think that everyone on this site should buy their tickets at same time and head over. Worse case scenario, we all hit the bar together with our ukraine/english translation dictionary and meet some real Ukrainian woman!! Besides some of the older post actually say that you do better meeting the gals there that aren't agency affiliated.

PeopleSmoks
01-11-2008, 01:19 AM
quote: Personally, I think that everyone on this site should buy their tickets at same time and head over. Worse case scenario, we all hit the bar together with our ukraine/english translation dictionary and meet some real Ukrainian woman!! Besides some of the older post actually say that you do better meeting the gals there that aren't agency affiliated.

It's a GREAT idea on paper, but not practical. It's not quite like getting a few of your old high school buddies together for a night out.

Personally. I'd love to do it. There are some pretty ineresting people here, but... the logistics of gathering guys from all over the world, which we are, is not an easy task. Dates, cities, even which country to visit to find that corner bar???[:0]

Train returns

skipped
01-11-2008, 01:28 AM
Ya your correct on that Peoples, but it would be nice to see Brunods cuff and stuff that scammer and drag her off in a interpol squad car.

PeopleSmoks
01-11-2008, 01:41 AM
skipped, brundos is not the police! He thinks he's the police? An oracle? And who knows what else? But he's not the police. The fact is, as a "retired" member of a fairly well know motorcycle enthusiasts club which has international chapters, I could probably have far greater success than most, but... I am retired.

I think I found a sweet little girl in Ukraine, we have plans to meet and I see what happens next. Either way, I'll still be around here for a while!

Train returns

skipped
01-11-2008, 01:58 AM
PeopleS, I wish you all the best and hope that you come back with fantastic news! I have read many posts and even talked to a couple of guys who visited the Ukraine. One of them was sold on a specific gal and even went through many steps to bring her back. But because neither one of them was willing to learn the others language, they bagged the whole thing (one of ya is going to have make the effort right?). Another guy went over there to meet a specific gal and ended up with another gal. Infact, I need to chat with him again and how it ended up with the new gal.
I like what you have to say and I am extremely interested in hearing about your trip after you return as well. Thanks

PeopleSmoks
01-11-2008, 02:14 AM
skipped, thanks for the good wishes. Language has already been discussed between me and the girl I'm going to visit. She fully understands that for her to live and survive in the US, she will have to learn English. I will of course work to learn Ukrainian as well, as much as possible, but it is much more necessary for her to learn the language of the country she will live in.

If a girl from Ukraine told a guy she wanted to be with him, but didn't want to learn his language, she was full of sh!t to begin with. No legitimate woman expects to find a man through the internet, move to his country, and have the entire population learn her language!

This will never happen in the US unless enough illegal and undocumented aliens set up shop... like oooooo in California?

Train returns

swede
01-11-2008, 08:10 AM
Cit PeopleS:

"I guess the real question is, "Is he dilusional and actully believes what he tells everyone, or is he simply seeking attention by creating contoversy about non-existent subjects and proclaiming himself to be the foremost authority, thus reinforcing his own psycho-drama?"

You said it. But on the other hand, I rather like Brunods nowadays; he's so enthusiastic about everything in his errant ways, that you can't help feeling protective.

Sad to say, even compared to some political philosophies, Freudianism
seems to be one of the worst example of bosh being constructed the last few hundred years. None of the basic ideas have ever been proved even slightly, pragmatically (as a treatmentform) it's hopeless, and Freud himself suffered from some of the symptoms he described, without being able to help himself.

A really, really bad case of belief-system.

brunods
01-11-2008, 01:34 PM
LOL OMG.. I was joking!! It was irony? :)

It would be quite ironic if she'd be saying that and I was actually the police! LOL

Unless of course I am an oracle from interpol? Yeah! :p
And Santa Claus exists! So does tooth fairy! ;)

swede
01-11-2008, 02:18 PM
I agree about Santa Claus, but are you quite sure about the tooth fairy?

Considering what "the firm" has been experimenting with the last 50 years, why not police oracles also. But I did notice your humour.

jake122969
01-11-2008, 06:53 PM
Hello, &lt;scam victim&gt;

Thank you for your question.
We will send you a notification about our answer ASAP.
To see the answer you need to log in at the site and to visit our support center.
Please, remember your ticket id 67678.

You can recieve answer directly from our site from this URL:
http://www.ualadys.com/support.rpx?id=67678

Attention:
We issue the answers to your questions only on our website.
We also send a copy of our answer to your email address
but we don't give the guarantee that it will reach you.
That's why we strongly recommend to receive an answer to your question on our site.
http://www.ualadys.com/support.rpx?id=67678

All you need to do for this is to log in on the site
and our system will inform you if the answer to your question is available.

----- Question body ------
My hidden profile
Why do I continue to get unsolicited mailings from ladies when my profile is hidden from view?
--------------------------

Regards,
Support Team
UAladys.com


I am still waiting for their answer

swede
01-11-2008, 07:14 PM
Yes, one may wonder

ham
01-11-2008, 10:16 PM
quote:Sad to say, even compared to some political philosophies, Freudianism
seems to be one of the worst example of bosh being constructed the last few hundred years. None of the basic ideas have ever been proved even slightly, pragmatically (as a treatmentform) it's hopeless, and Freud himself suffered from some of the symptoms he described, without being able to help himself.

psychoanalysis is not perfect, but the idea is good.
introspection, or "analyzing your psyche " (soul-searching, whatever ) is the best way to come to terms with phobias and delusions.
Therapists act at best as a medium, and at worst as placebo, like visiting a priest or talking to a friend.
Yet to some not very good at self-introspection, talking proves very useful to reach at least a level of introspection.
None but oneself can solve the problem.
Most of us recall the girl we were madly in love with, while friends or family warned us she was a cheap/unreliable girl, but we would insist in idealizing her & explaining her nonsense away with smart, soothing guesses no matter how painful or odd the evidence in front of us was.
Then one day we realized our love queen was just an opportunist, a manipulative gold-digger, a wh-re who had laid the whole fire brigade and soccer team etc...the pastel-colored image we had engineered in our minds was but a reflection of our own -often closeted- needs, but had little -if anything at all- in common with the real life person we were interested in...
We thought "all that matters is Jenny...Susie...Triin... Olga...Nunzia..." but it was coded speak for "all that matter is I want to feel...loved, appreciated, whatever", first comer basis.
And one day the obsession or delusion that had been haunting us maybe for years dissolves...we are able to see through the smoke screen and "special effects" of her wiles fueled by our shortcomings: the ten story tall road block dinosaur ravaging Tokyo is in reality a man in rubber suit smashing a carton box miniature city.
Now we can see it, and laugh, but earlier it looked so real.

swede
01-12-2008, 12:17 AM
Hi Ham,

I believe that introspection can be of enormous help to most people. And that just talking with someone, about any problems you have, can have this mirroreffect you mentioned.

What I don't like about traditional Freudianism are the concepts, he's working with. Especially the idea of "subconsciousness". It's at best a postulate, which has never been proved or demonstrated in any way.

It has also led to several generations, which have been brought up by parents, who believed, that our conscious mind is some string-puppet to the subconscious. Every time a kid did something unpleasant, it was its subconsciousness doing it, (this freeing it from responsibility), so these children never learned social behaviour.

Worked 8-9 years as a publicschool teacher in Denmark Saw this problem every day.

Freudian theories are not very popular or known outside westeurope and US. They have their own theories and methods.

Sadly I'm not one of those guys, who will "see the light" about a women, even if I know, she has an abominable character. I have problems falling OUT of love.

Or rather had. My UA experience kind of cured me, it was like some shock- or aversiontherapy.

ClueLessLuzer
01-12-2008, 12:52 AM
quote:Originally posted by PeopleSmoks

This will never happen in the US unless enough illegal and undocumented aliens set up shop... like oooooo in California?

wow, trashing the state I live in. First I find my true love Vika is sending emails to other guys and now this......

PeopleSmoks
01-12-2008, 02:00 AM
quote:wow, trashing the state I live in. First I find my true love Vika is sending emails to other guys and now this......
Sorry dude. I just get a bit rammy when states decide to teach classes in Spanish or ebonics because they gave up on education.

But the point is, where does this b!tch plan to live with this guy, if she doesn't plan to learn his country's language?

quote:Sadly I'm not one of those guys, who will "see the light" about a women, even if I know, she has an abominable character. I have problems falling OUT of love.

Aaaaaaarrrrrrrgggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Been there, done that!!! For more information about "been there, done that", please refer to multiple posting in which I spin off into a twisted and sometimes most uncontrolled rant about my ex-girlfriend of seven plus years who was no more than a heroin junkie WH@RE!!![B)]

Train returns

swede
01-12-2008, 03:17 AM
Hi again PeopleS,

I have read some of the older posts, and everything everyone has written, since I rejoined this forum. I certainly didn't forget about your ex ###&%etc.

Also had my share of junkies, alcoholics, suicidals and just crazy women , so I can sympathize deeply with you. Don't think I could've taken seven years with a heroinist.

PeopleSmoks
01-12-2008, 07:18 PM
Yeah, like I said before in another forum, some people are so good at lying. I'm not really sure when she started the heroin thing. It was simply the one that took hold of her and I couldn't break it, or maybe I had simply run out of gas for trying? As a retired member of a motorcycle enthusiasts club, I still have some pull with my old buds. Yeah, it may sound messed up, but when I found out about her problem with oxycodone, I informed her that I was having somone watch the apartment and if I found out who was selling her the drugs, he would find himself explaining it to me and several large gentlemen out in the middle of the woods, and that he wouldn't be leaving those woods. She stopped that stuff, but she kept finding something new until I just couldn't deal with it anymore.

Oh well, she's got a new sucker to mooch off of! Poor bastard!!!

But hey, if the girl I'm going to see in March turns out to be "the one", I look at life as a path with many twists and turns and forks in the road. If I was meant to go through that b!tch to eventually find my future happiness, I guess it was worth it?

Train returns

swede
01-12-2008, 07:41 PM
I'm familiar with your gentlemen buddies. The police here, concentrating on tax-evaders and other really heavy criminals, and leaving rapers, muggers and other small fish alone, has left a vacum behind them. Your friends are now quite popular here, filling out this vacum as a militant version of your "friendly neighbourhood watch".

Being owner of a Goldwing, I'm considered almost half human, so I probably could expect help, if I needed it.

But junkies and alcoholics are outside the scope of people. Usually it needs divine intervention to stop them.

PeopleSmoks
01-12-2008, 09:31 PM
swede, one of the reasons I retired was because of certain "business" practices of the club. But as for comradery, you can't beat it. Most of the time the "live and let live" sentiment prevails, but if a person crosses the line with one, he's crossed that line with several thousand since my old club is international. (Mostly in name only)

A couple of decades ago, a Goldwinger would be looked down on, but now-a-days, except for a few old hardliners, the consensus is, if you ride on two wheels, you're okay with us. Although the crotch rocket boys are still usually shunned.

Yeah, bikers have wives and kids and don't want crap happening around our own neighborhoods just like everyone else, and do something about it if something does happen.

I've discussed this with my Ukrainian dove, but I still wonder what she'll do the first time some guy named Trashcan, Fat Jack or Psycho knocks on the door!!!!

Train returns

swede
01-12-2008, 10:43 PM
No need to comment the first part of your post. We agree.

But:

"I've discussed this with my Ukrainian dove, but I still wonder what she'll do the first time some guy named Trashcan, Fat Jack or Psycho knocks on the door!!!!"

I've VERY seldom seen anything looking like the biker-subculture there, and when you see such types there's a definite humouristic aspect about it. Like easy rider's gone bananas.

Anything bigger than 50 cc and no matter what type, is presumably a Harley.

I suggest, you wait introducing your friends with the poetic names until your relationship is safely established. FSUW put an ENORMOUS
significance on outer appearance.

skipped
01-12-2008, 10:56 PM
Many of the posts talk about these gals being scammers, or not even for real. But I've read alot of different info here and other sites and actually been writing a few of them for quite awhile. Long enough that I've came up with some conclusions about how they respond. I believe that most of the gals originally write their own letters, however they are doctored up a bit by the interpreters. But a few of the gals (who have been on the site a long time, usually you can tell by how many pictures they have posted) receive so many letters that they cannot possibly respond to all. So they make one generic daily letter and hand it in at the agency. This letter usually does not respond to any personal questions that you asked and could be presented to a hundred guys (and probably is). Lots of times it will ask you questions instead.
Something else I would like to add is when I first started writing to a FSU gal via formerly CC I was very interested in her and she actually wrote me back (after about 3 months of writing) and let me know that another gentleman that was writing had came to visit and ask her to marry him. She said she accepted and that I should have visited her sooner! So I lost out on that one because I was trying to figure out if I was being scammed or not. Should of went and visited. At least I would have known, heck, maybe I would of been the lucky guy.

PeopleSmoks
01-12-2008, 11:02 PM
Honestly skipped, if a girl (especially a smokin' hottie) is on one of these sites for let's say a year, and hasn't found someone, there's more going on than her trying to find a suitible mate. Whether it's her, or the site, something is up.




Train returns

swede
01-12-2008, 11:14 PM
You're right, skipped, there's alot of opinions, observations or conclusions hanging around. But after a while you will be able to form a kind of statistically average, allowing for maybe some straight girls, but definitely seeing also, that there's something rotten in the state of Denmark generally.

Sure, some of the girls recieve a lot of letters, but considering, that you after all would want to COMMUNICATE with a potential lifepartner, the method you suggested reminds more of an assembly line one-way communication. On what criterias will the girls choose compatible partners?
Your persistence, possibly your bank-account? First-to-mill.....?

As PeopleS once adviced a contributer here: "Focus". Don't get supply-panic, if this girl could marry the first at-scene guy so spontaneously, she'll probably divorce with the same speed. You haven't lost anything.

PeopleSmoks
01-12-2008, 11:55 PM
True you don't want some girl who "falls in love" with you after four letters, or a girl who makes rash decisions at all since that will most likely lead to later disaster, but you also don't want a girl who can't make up her own mind. Eventually, there needs to come a time when she stops looking at other guys just as you need to stop looking at other girls.

How long you think is appropriate is up to you and the girl, but if a serious relationship is what you both are looking for, it has to become one to one and exclusive sooner or later, even during the correspondence phase of relations. If she can't be faithful to you now, can you expect her to suddenly change because maybe you marry her? None of this she's still writing to 20 other guys stuff quite cuts it after a while.

Until I meet her in March, there's still a chance the girl I've been writing to has alterior motives, or may end up a no show, but as far as I know, we are exclusive to each other and have been for several months. Yeah, I still have profiles on several sites and browes several others from time to time, but for the purpose of looking for her, and I haven't found her anywhere since we started writing in a more serious tone.

Don't make excuses for her. If she's serious about you, there comes a time when she needs to make the choice to show it.

Train returns