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onthebeaches007
05-06-2007, 10:30 PM
Discovered this on Craigs List and have never come across this. Anyone had any experience?

Thanks

American Russian Love

seajay
05-07-2007, 01:33 AM
Just looked at the front page now! It scares me!

Its tab heading says "Russian Mail Order Brides". Umm... they don't exist.

There is a flash ad at the top, that says "CUM JOIN THE PARTY". (Spelling is theirs.) The picture in the flash ad depicts an orgy.

Methinks this is an organisation that demeans women, and appeals to men who want to join a porn club.

onthebeaches007
05-07-2007, 04:40 AM
hey Seajay

I haven't looked at the site very close and yes they do use the phrase mail order brides but also explain they are not in that business in the FAQ's. And all the women aren't not drop dead gorgeous and seem to look very real. I sent a couple short messages to two of the girls so it will be interesting to see where it goes from here.

thanks for your input

ARLAdmin
05-18-2007, 01:26 PM
I am the owner of AmericanRussianLove.com.

TO answer comments made here.

What was seen at the top of our page was a banner ad, and no way to mistake it as anything else. If you looked as well you would have seen (DATING BANNER EXCHANGE) under that ad.
This was from a banner exchange program to help promote the website. However we did remove this banner exchange because they did allow such banners to rotate on our site. We felt that ad was not proper to show on our website.

As to the Mail Order Brides comment.
Per Google MAIL ORDER BRIDES is still the highest key words used for Russian Women Dating Sites. Because of this in order to get our website to the top of the search engines the SEO (search engine optimization) company we hired used the top key words in doing SEO work to the website. These words show in the tops of windows and why you see Mail Order Brides.

ARLAdmin
05-18-2007, 01:26 PM
I am the owner of AmericanRussianLove.com.

TO answer comments made here.

What was seen at the top of our page was a banner ad, and no way to mistake it as anything else. If you looked as well you would have seen (DATING BANNER EXCHANGE) under that ad.
This was from a banner exchange program to help promote the website. However we did remove this banner exchange because they did allow such banners to rotate on our site. We felt that ad was not proper to show on our website.

As to the Mail Order Brides comment.
Per Google MAIL ORDER BRIDES is still the highest key words used for Russian Women Dating Sites. Because of this in order to get our website to the top of the search engines the SEO (search engine optimization) company we hired used the top key words in doing SEO work to the website. These words show in the tops of windows and why you see Mail Order Brides.

cmiia
05-20-2007, 05:17 AM
So what??.

Just another dubious dating websaite that makes sky high claims yet has little to back up its statements.

cmiia
05-20-2007, 05:17 AM
So what??.

Just another dubious dating websaite that makes sky high claims yet has little to back up its statements.

cmiia
05-20-2007, 05:23 AM
Mail order brides don't exist?.......if you buy her address then that's what she is. It's quite simple.

cmiia
05-20-2007, 05:23 AM
Mail order brides don't exist?.......if you buy her address then that's what she is. It's quite simple.

ARLAdmin
05-20-2007, 09:52 PM
I do not know these sky high claims you indicated we make. Please show them to me. This website is a free site started by men just like anyone else here.
Just like any site you have to use your judgement with anyone. Since you are not paying for the site I have no idea what the SKY HIGH CLAIMS means. Also if any lady ever asks for money then you contact us and let us know.

As to the Mail Order Brides. Your comment is way off based. Buying a ladies address does not make her a MAIL ORDER BRIDE. In fact this term was invented before the internet existed because the way then to meet Russian Women was to have a catalog of ladies delivered to your house (mail). Others made this term under the belief that men were ordering brides from the catalog and these Women were delivered to their house ready for marriage. It is a nothing more then a term. The fact it does not exist is because you cannot simply order a lady from a catalog who will be delivered to your house for marriage.

ARLAdmin
05-20-2007, 09:52 PM
I do not know these sky high claims you indicated we make. Please show them to me. This website is a free site started by men just like anyone else here.
Just like any site you have to use your judgement with anyone. Since you are not paying for the site I have no idea what the SKY HIGH CLAIMS means. Also if any lady ever asks for money then you contact us and let us know.

As to the Mail Order Brides. Your comment is way off based. Buying a ladies address does not make her a MAIL ORDER BRIDE. In fact this term was invented before the internet existed because the way then to meet Russian Women was to have a catalog of ladies delivered to your house (mail). Others made this term under the belief that men were ordering brides from the catalog and these Women were delivered to their house ready for marriage. It is a nothing more then a term. The fact it does not exist is because you cannot simply order a lady from a catalog who will be delivered to your house for marriage.

cmiia
05-20-2007, 11:18 PM
Thousands of BEAUTIFUL Russian ladies???.

Yeah. Just like the 'borrowed' model pictures on your home page.

You have a forum in the works......hmmmm let me see I'm sure it will be most strictly moderated in favour of the dupes that post who are employees of your agency. Anyone critical of what is said will surely be banned, right??.

As to mail order bride terminology well to find your website I searched and it was displayed with search term Russian
Mail order bride!!.

I wouldn't waste my money with you or any other such site.

cmiia
05-20-2007, 11:18 PM
Thousands of BEAUTIFUL Russian ladies???.

Yeah. Just like the 'borrowed' model pictures on your home page.

You have a forum in the works......hmmmm let me see I'm sure it will be most strictly moderated in favour of the dupes that post who are employees of your agency. Anyone critical of what is said will surely be banned, right??.

As to mail order bride terminology well to find your website I searched and it was displayed with search term Russian
Mail order bride!!.

I wouldn't waste my money with you or any other such site.

ARLAdmin
05-20-2007, 11:44 PM
First we are not an agency. You seem to not read anything at all. We also have just under 5000 ladies on the site. Second it is a FREE website and your talking about wasting money. You talk about things you do not even know.
Second read full posts to this forum. Mail order brides is the most used search term on search engines for those looking for Russian Women. No one would find us if not using it.
You seem to be just one of those bitter people who attacks everything even things you know nothing about. This website is owned by two American Men (myself included) who are both married to Russian Women. This site was nothing more then a gift to others to do the same. No money is made from this website period. Yet you call it fake and other nonsense. Personally I am not going to get into it with you. If you do not like our site do not use it. In fact I think all would agree we would prefer to keep people like you off of it if for anything, for the ladies sake.
Website owner or not I will not kiss up to anyone especially when we offer a free service to others. I own many websites I make money from. This is my living. These other sites are non related to Russian Women. Yet I have my own servers and it does not cost me money. Nor is a dime being made from this website.
Now if all your comments made you feel important good for you. Personally you know nothing about our site and I think your issues go alot deeper then that.
In almost a year online there has not been one man who has complained. Not one negative comment online about us until you who knows nothing about us just so you can feel superior.
So we bow down to you so now you can feel important.

ARLAdmin
05-20-2007, 11:44 PM
First we are not an agency. You seem to not read anything at all. We also have just under 5000 ladies on the site. Second it is a FREE website and your talking about wasting money. You talk about things you do not even know.
Second read full posts to this forum. Mail order brides is the most used search term on search engines for those looking for Russian Women. No one would find us if not using it.
You seem to be just one of those bitter people who attacks everything even things you know nothing about. This website is owned by two American Men (myself included) who are both married to Russian Women. This site was nothing more then a gift to others to do the same. No money is made from this website period. Yet you call it fake and other nonsense. Personally I am not going to get into it with you. If you do not like our site do not use it. In fact I think all would agree we would prefer to keep people like you off of it if for anything, for the ladies sake.
Website owner or not I will not kiss up to anyone especially when we offer a free service to others. I own many websites I make money from. This is my living. These other sites are non related to Russian Women. Yet I have my own servers and it does not cost me money. Nor is a dime being made from this website.
Now if all your comments made you feel important good for you. Personally you know nothing about our site and I think your issues go alot deeper then that.
In almost a year online there has not been one man who has complained. Not one negative comment online about us until you who knows nothing about us just so you can feel superior.
So we bow down to you so now you can feel important.

cmiia
05-21-2007, 03:31 AM
Well you know the saying....you get what you pay for which in your site's case means well......NOTHING???.

So you have 5000 'women' on your site which means you probably would have no idea of the quality of those who are supposed genuinely interested in finding love. I could be writing no Natasha who is really Boris but hey, why would you care anyway??.

Pretty soon you'll be inventing dozens of success stories and paying some broke guy to write glowing reviews of your site and how finding it made him find love and happiness in his sad existence.

And then there's banner advertising and links to services. So much for your websites Integrity.

Bitter?. Hey the only ones that will be bitter will be those that use your service and report it on this and other antiscam forums for all the obvious reasons.

cmiia
05-21-2007, 03:31 AM
Well you know the saying....you get what you pay for which in your site's case means well......NOTHING???.

So you have 5000 'women' on your site which means you probably would have no idea of the quality of those who are supposed genuinely interested in finding love. I could be writing no Natasha who is really Boris but hey, why would you care anyway??.

Pretty soon you'll be inventing dozens of success stories and paying some broke guy to write glowing reviews of your site and how finding it made him find love and happiness in his sad existence.

And then there's banner advertising and links to services. So much for your websites Integrity.

Bitter?. Hey the only ones that will be bitter will be those that use your service and report it on this and other antiscam forums for all the obvious reasons.

ARLAdmin
05-21-2007, 04:36 AM
This is for all the other men out there looking for a Russian Wife and by no means a reply to bach1685 who personally is not worth replying to.

You can visit many forums on this subject. The one thing you will notice is the difference between the Men who are married to a Russian Women to those who are not and come to the forums several times a day to cry.

I personally am married. I also never visited a forum to get advice on how to meet a Russian Women nor any Women for that fact.
Russian Women do not come with manuals. There is not an instruction booklet. They are Women just like any other Women. You treat them just like you would treat any other Women.

Your success with Russian Women is on you. Your attitude, Your personality, and how you treat them.

How often do you see a Married man come to these forums and attack everything they see and much less things they have no knowledge of? How many times do you see the Married Men crying about this and crying about that?

The way the married Men act on these forums is the way they acted with the Women. They acted like MEN.

The others come to these forums and complain and cry. They also act this way with the ladies. Giving them more reason to complain and cry because they do not put the blame for their failure on themselves but more wanting to put it on everyone else.

Because they cannot meet a Women it is the websites fault. It is the Agencies fault. It is the Womens fault. They are all scammers.

I came to this forum to answer concerns of two Men who did post a comment about a website I did put online. Nothing more nothing less.

Here comes someone out of nowhere attacking the website and while doing this is making things up that do not even exist and look at how far he takes his imagination.
This person never used my website. This person knows nothing about it. But they invent things just because they are bitter and feel the need to be heard.
Pay sites are attacked saying they are scams.
Now I have a free site and this is attacked for being a scam because it is free. So which is it?

Bottom line I do not care if someone uses my website or not. Like I have said many times it is Free. I do not make a dime. My life will not change reguardless.


What I can tell those on this search is when you take the attitude like of someone like bach1685 you will be met with nothing but failure.

Everyone has a reason for their quest to meet Russian Women. Everyones reason is different.

Yet there are those who set out on this quest for the simple fact Women where they are want nothing to do with them.
After reading many of their posts you can see why. The way they act here is the way they act in person. This is the way ladies see them. These are also the same people who are also having no luck with Russian Women either. Yet they want to give you advice. They think they know it all. Everything is a scam and should be watched out for. They know everything no matter what, and even when you prove them wrong they make up something else or stretch the truth just to be heard once again.
What you need to ask yourself is if these people think it is so negative, everything is a scam then why in the world do they still try so hard? Why do they come to these forums several times a day everyday?
As the saying goes misery loves company and others want nothing more then for you to be as unhappy as they are.

Do I feel my website is for everyone? No
Why do I feel this way?
Simply because the lady for you may not be on my website.

I think those who join any website blindly is making a huge mistake. Should you not see someone you have an interest in before joining?

The end result of all of this is marriage. This should not be taken likely. If you are joining a website because you like their prices I think you are doing it all wrong. I met my wife on Anastasiaweb.com.
Many talk about this company and I heard many things. Some said I spent too much yet at the same time never asked how much I spent. However this is my wife. The Women I love and personally I do not feel it should have a price tag on it. I went after the Women I wanted and she is also the only Women I wanted and the only Women I wrote to.
Those who say you should write tons of ladies have not figured this out yet. They are usually also the bitter ones and the criers who say this. This is the advice of someone who is looking for nothing more then someone who will tolerate them. When you see their attitude you will know why. You also see how they have been on this journey for so long with no luck. It is not the agencies fault. It is not fault of the website they joined. It is their own fault. It is their own personality. What lady, American or Russian, would want to hear a man complain and cry about everything?

Bottom line is this. Be careful who you get your advice from. Be careful of those who attack everything. When they say someone is a scam ask why. Most call a lady or agency a scam because they acted like they do here. Then the lady had no interest in them.So now they will tell you the agency or the lady is a scam. Half of these men forget to give the whole details as to how they acted. That they treat meetings like interviews. I could go on forever with stories we hear from ladies on the things these men do and they want to wonder why these ladies want nothing to do with them. But of coarse this makes everything a scam in their eyes.

Best advice I could give is be yourself. Treat these Women like Women. Stay away from the criers, and the most obvious we all know, is stay away from those who ask for money.

When looking for a website you want to join. First look through their ladies to find the one you are interested in. There is no need to join any website if they do not have what you are looking for.

Best of luck to all of you on this journey. I have no comment for bach1685. As the saying goes "If you have nothing nice to say. Dont say anything at all". Recess is for the children and I have been out of school for far too long.

ARLAdmin
05-21-2007, 04:36 AM
This is for all the other men out there looking for a Russian Wife and by no means a reply to bach1685 who personally is not worth replying to.

You can visit many forums on this subject. The one thing you will notice is the difference between the Men who are married to a Russian Women to those who are not and come to the forums several times a day to cry.

I personally am married. I also never visited a forum to get advice on how to meet a Russian Women nor any Women for that fact.
Russian Women do not come with manuals. There is not an instruction booklet. They are Women just like any other Women. You treat them just like you would treat any other Women.

Your success with Russian Women is on you. Your attitude, Your personality, and how you treat them.

How often do you see a Married man come to these forums and attack everything they see and much less things they have no knowledge of? How many times do you see the Married Men crying about this and crying about that?

The way the married Men act on these forums is the way they acted with the Women. They acted like MEN.

The others come to these forums and complain and cry. They also act this way with the ladies. Giving them more reason to complain and cry because they do not put the blame for their failure on themselves but more wanting to put it on everyone else.

Because they cannot meet a Women it is the websites fault. It is the Agencies fault. It is the Womens fault. They are all scammers.

I came to this forum to answer concerns of two Men who did post a comment about a website I did put online. Nothing more nothing less.

Here comes someone out of nowhere attacking the website and while doing this is making things up that do not even exist and look at how far he takes his imagination.
This person never used my website. This person knows nothing about it. But they invent things just because they are bitter and feel the need to be heard.
Pay sites are attacked saying they are scams.
Now I have a free site and this is attacked for being a scam because it is free. So which is it?

Bottom line I do not care if someone uses my website or not. Like I have said many times it is Free. I do not make a dime. My life will not change reguardless.


What I can tell those on this search is when you take the attitude like of someone like bach1685 you will be met with nothing but failure.

Everyone has a reason for their quest to meet Russian Women. Everyones reason is different.

Yet there are those who set out on this quest for the simple fact Women where they are want nothing to do with them.
After reading many of their posts you can see why. The way they act here is the way they act in person. This is the way ladies see them. These are also the same people who are also having no luck with Russian Women either. Yet they want to give you advice. They think they know it all. Everything is a scam and should be watched out for. They know everything no matter what, and even when you prove them wrong they make up something else or stretch the truth just to be heard once again.
What you need to ask yourself is if these people think it is so negative, everything is a scam then why in the world do they still try so hard? Why do they come to these forums several times a day everyday?
As the saying goes misery loves company and others want nothing more then for you to be as unhappy as they are.

Do I feel my website is for everyone? No
Why do I feel this way?
Simply because the lady for you may not be on my website.

I think those who join any website blindly is making a huge mistake. Should you not see someone you have an interest in before joining?

The end result of all of this is marriage. This should not be taken likely. If you are joining a website because you like their prices I think you are doing it all wrong. I met my wife on Anastasiaweb.com.
Many talk about this company and I heard many things. Some said I spent too much yet at the same time never asked how much I spent. However this is my wife. The Women I love and personally I do not feel it should have a price tag on it. I went after the Women I wanted and she is also the only Women I wanted and the only Women I wrote to.
Those who say you should write tons of ladies have not figured this out yet. They are usually also the bitter ones and the criers who say this. This is the advice of someone who is looking for nothing more then someone who will tolerate them. When you see their attitude you will know why. You also see how they have been on this journey for so long with no luck. It is not the agencies fault. It is not fault of the website they joined. It is their own fault. It is their own personality. What lady, American or Russian, would want to hear a man complain and cry about everything?

Bottom line is this. Be careful who you get your advice from. Be careful of those who attack everything. When they say someone is a scam ask why. Most call a lady or agency a scam because they acted like they do here. Then the lady had no interest in them.So now they will tell you the agency or the lady is a scam. Half of these men forget to give the whole details as to how they acted. That they treat meetings like interviews. I could go on forever with stories we hear from ladies on the things these men do and they want to wonder why these ladies want nothing to do with them. But of coarse this makes everything a scam in their eyes.

Best advice I could give is be yourself. Treat these Women like Women. Stay away from the criers, and the most obvious we all know, is stay away from those who ask for money.

When looking for a website you want to join. First look through their ladies to find the one you are interested in. There is no need to join any website if they do not have what you are looking for.

Best of luck to all of you on this journey. I have no comment for bach1685. As the saying goes "If you have nothing nice to say. Dont say anything at all". Recess is for the children and I have been out of school for far too long.

elenag
05-21-2007, 05:17 AM
quote:Originally posted by bach1685

Well you know the saying....you get what you pay for which in your site's case means well......NOTHING???.

bach1685,

First you complained about them being expensive. Now you complain about them being free... tell us, what would satisfy a demanding customer like yourself? :D I have been reading your posts for a while and "bitter" was the word that came to me every single time, too. That, and "pathetic."

I am sorry that someone hurt you so bad.

elenag
05-21-2007, 05:17 AM
quote:Originally posted by bach1685

Well you know the saying....you get what you pay for which in your site's case means well......NOTHING???.

bach1685,

First you complained about them being expensive. Now you complain about them being free... tell us, what would satisfy a demanding customer like yourself? :D I have been reading your posts for a while and "bitter" was the word that came to me every single time, too. That, and "pathetic."

I am sorry that someone hurt you so bad.

elenag
05-21-2007, 05:37 AM
ARLAdmin,

I would suggest that you stop worrying about replying or giving serious advices, because there hardly any one on this forum who will listen to the message you are trying to get through. Wrong forum!

elenag
05-21-2007, 05:37 AM
ARLAdmin,

I would suggest that you stop worrying about replying or giving serious advices, because there hardly any one on this forum who will listen to the message you are trying to get through. Wrong forum!

elenag
05-21-2007, 05:47 AM
Please note everyone that I am not suggesting that ARLAdmin's site is any good. I never visited the link so I don't know. Neither do I really care. I just wanted to comment on the general conversation.

bach1685, don't bother yelling at me, I don't care.

elenag
05-21-2007, 05:47 AM
Please note everyone that I am not suggesting that ARLAdmin's site is any good. I never visited the link so I don't know. Neither do I really care. I just wanted to comment on the general conversation.

bach1685, don't bother yelling at me, I don't care.

ham
05-21-2007, 08:23 AM
quote:I would suggest that you stop worrying about replying or giving serious advices, because there hardly any one on this forum who will listen to the message you are trying to get through. Wrong forum!

however this forum was good enough when you wanted to draw "visibility" to YOUR OWN business, and getting an audience was right...
Ah...i witnessed the charade you were involved in with "Jim, Jack & Dan "...now what was that?
Integrity...please, spare me.

For those who don't know, an agency peddler running a blacklist/goldlist made sharp remarks about I) a forum run by the peddler of several agencies, selling spaces for advertisement, posing as watchful shepherd and II) a dating dealer. Now the thing escalated upto the point I & II made a slander website to expose the "list owner" with all sort of things from accusations of pedophilia downward. Elena tried to act as a referee or something.

Now one might wonder: hell, if what they say is true, let the world know...
Too bad it was the good old blackmail sleaze game made up of fantasy allegations AND fantasy claims of integrity.
The same trick happened long ago between the "list owner" and the owner of an antiscam site.
Well...they are in bed together now; both the remarks and the slander website are gone ( so much hassle for a business they cry there's no money to be made from ), which means it's all a "cherchez la femme" three cards' spread con trick...or the the honor of these people is strictly negotiable.

ham
05-21-2007, 08:23 AM
quote:I would suggest that you stop worrying about replying or giving serious advices, because there hardly any one on this forum who will listen to the message you are trying to get through. Wrong forum!

however this forum was good enough when you wanted to draw "visibility" to YOUR OWN business, and getting an audience was right...
Ah...i witnessed the charade you were involved in with "Jim, Jack & Dan "...now what was that?
Integrity...please, spare me.

For those who don't know, an agency peddler running a blacklist/goldlist made sharp remarks about I) a forum run by the peddler of several agencies, selling spaces for advertisement, posing as watchful shepherd and II) a dating dealer. Now the thing escalated upto the point I & II made a slander website to expose the "list owner" with all sort of things from accusations of pedophilia downward. Elena tried to act as a referee or something.

Now one might wonder: hell, if what they say is true, let the world know...
Too bad it was the good old blackmail sleaze game made up of fantasy allegations AND fantasy claims of integrity.
The same trick happened long ago between the "list owner" and the owner of an antiscam site.
Well...they are in bed together now; both the remarks and the slander website are gone ( so much hassle for a business they cry there's no money to be made from ), which means it's all a "cherchez la femme" three cards' spread con trick...or the the honor of these people is strictly negotiable.

elenag
05-21-2007, 12:53 PM
Dear Ham...

What, no hug for a long-lost friend? And I missed you! Silly me. :D

elenag
05-21-2007, 12:53 PM
Dear Ham...

What, no hug for a long-lost friend? And I missed you! Silly me. :D

elenag
05-21-2007, 12:59 PM
P.S. I am back, like it or not. Sorry. But don't worry - once my school starts again, I will leave you guys alone to play with your mud pies. Hold in there.

elenag
05-21-2007, 12:59 PM
P.S. I am back, like it or not. Sorry. But don't worry - once my school starts again, I will leave you guys alone to play with your mud pies. Hold in there.

ham
05-21-2007, 01:25 PM
quote:Originally posted by elenag

Dear Ham...

What, no hug for a long-lost friend? And I missed you! Silly me. :D




have a pizza on me, darling...[^][:p]

ham
05-21-2007, 01:25 PM
quote:Originally posted by elenag

Dear Ham...

What, no hug for a long-lost friend? And I missed you! Silly me. :D




have a pizza on me, darling...[^][:p]

elenag
05-21-2007, 01:26 PM
I do respect how you pulled this forum together, too, given the state it was in a year ago. Hats off.

elenag
05-21-2007, 01:26 PM
I do respect how you pulled this forum together, too, given the state it was in a year ago. Hats off.

ham
05-21-2007, 01:29 PM
quote:Originally posted by elenag

I do respect how you pulled this forum together, too, given the state it was in a year ago. Hats off.


eh?
[?][?][?][?][?]

ham
05-21-2007, 01:29 PM
quote:Originally posted by elenag

I do respect how you pulled this forum together, too, given the state it was in a year ago. Hats off.


eh?
[?][?][?][?][?]

elenag
05-21-2007, 01:29 PM
So, you did miss me!
:D

elenag
05-21-2007, 01:29 PM
So, you did miss me!
:D

ham
05-21-2007, 01:39 PM
quote:Originally posted by elenag

So, you did miss me!
:D


this far your story about how a woman might turn to the MOB route is [u]by far</u> the most credible.
i've heard plenty of stories and all smell like rotten fish.
but you've YOUR forun now, so you take care of business, right?

ham
05-21-2007, 01:39 PM
quote:Originally posted by elenag

So, you did miss me!
:D


this far your story about how a woman might turn to the MOB route is [u]by far</u> the most credible.
i've heard plenty of stories and all smell like rotten fish.
but you've YOUR forun now, so you take care of business, right?

cmiia
05-21-2007, 08:19 PM
Let me guess 'Elena' (or should that be hairy Boris?).

You're studying for a PHD in pole dancing right?.

No doubt it's second nature to you.

cmiia
05-21-2007, 08:19 PM
Let me guess 'Elena' (or should that be hairy Boris?).

You're studying for a PHD in pole dancing right?.

No doubt it's second nature to you.

elenag
05-22-2007, 02:33 AM
quote:Originally posted by ham
but you've YOUR forun now, so you take care of business, right?

I am not sure I understood what you are asking. Take care of business? No, seriously, I didn't get the question. About the forum - yes, I am the main Admin there, and sometimes I even post there, however my MOD team is doing a good job at moderating, and I try not to get in their way. :D

elenag
05-22-2007, 02:33 AM
quote:Originally posted by ham
but you've YOUR forun now, so you take care of business, right?

I am not sure I understood what you are asking. Take care of business? No, seriously, I didn't get the question. About the forum - yes, I am the main Admin there, and sometimes I even post there, however my MOD team is doing a good job at moderating, and I try not to get in their way. :D

ham
05-22-2007, 08:11 AM
quote:Originally posted by elenag


quote:Originally posted by ham
but you've YOUR forun now, so you take care of business, right?

I am not sure I understood what you are asking. Take care of business? No, seriously, I didn't get the question. About the forum - yes, I am the main Admin there, and sometimes I even post there, however my MOD team is doing a good job at moderating, and I try not to get in their way. :D


since that site is your bread&butter, you no longer bother with this one...

ham
05-22-2007, 08:11 AM
quote:Originally posted by elenag


quote:Originally posted by ham
but you've YOUR forun now, so you take care of business, right?

I am not sure I understood what you are asking. Take care of business? No, seriously, I didn't get the question. About the forum - yes, I am the main Admin there, and sometimes I even post there, however my MOD team is doing a good job at moderating, and I try not to get in their way. :D


since that site is your bread&butter, you no longer bother with this one...

ham
05-22-2007, 08:14 AM
quote:Originally posted by bach1685


Let me guess 'Elena' (or should that be hairy Boris?).

You're studying for a PHD in pole dancing right?.

No doubt it's second nature to you.



I don't think she's a 'Boris' and she (like other Elena P. ) was smart enough to turn the MOB thing to her advantage making money out of it, instead of pole dancing...

ham
05-22-2007, 08:14 AM
quote:Originally posted by bach1685


Let me guess 'Elena' (or should that be hairy Boris?).

You're studying for a PHD in pole dancing right?.

No doubt it's second nature to you.



I don't think she's a 'Boris' and she (like other Elena P. ) was smart enough to turn the MOB thing to her advantage making money out of it, instead of pole dancing...

cmiia
05-22-2007, 10:09 PM
Pole Dancing, MOB websites.......each as disreputabale as the other.

cmiia
05-22-2007, 10:09 PM
Pole Dancing, MOB websites.......each as disreputabale as the other.

elenag
05-22-2007, 10:50 PM
quote:Originally posted by ham
since that site is your bread&butter, you no longer bother with this one...

Maybe bread... not sure about butter!

The real reason is my school. Sometimes I don't even show up on my own forum for a week or more. Plus, for a while the forum was so dead I forgot about it.

I see the forum lost (not as a loss but as a loose :D) our dear Detective. How come? He forgot English completely at some point?

elenag
05-22-2007, 10:50 PM
quote:Originally posted by ham
since that site is your bread&butter, you no longer bother with this one...

Maybe bread... not sure about butter!

The real reason is my school. Sometimes I don't even show up on my own forum for a week or more. Plus, for a while the forum was so dead I forgot about it.

I see the forum lost (not as a loss but as a loose :D) our dear Detective. How come? He forgot English completely at some point?

cooldadman
05-23-2007, 01:31 AM
Elena, I'm new here but will admit that it was surprising to see how bitter and misinformed some of the posters are. That is sad. I agree with the agency owner who posted that it takes both humility and intelligence to be successful with a Russian, Ukrainian, or Belarussian lady. Those attributes are in very short supply on this forum.

You and I even disagreed on one of my earlier posts, yet we didn't call each other names. Although we didn't address each other personally, I sensed that while we saw an issue a little differently, you respected my opinion and chose your reply carefully. Thank you. That is the difference between bitter existence and intelligent life forms.

I don't know either you or the earlier agency owner, but at some point would enjoy talking with each of you about some media projects.

Guys, when I first came here is was glaringly obvious that there was a serious lack of real world experience on this forum. I would hope that the men on this list could see Elena as a very unique link into the world each of you seek to discover. Instead of insults, why not ask her questions? She, as a RW, has more insight regarding these ladies in her little finger than 100,000 western men put together. It doesn't mean that she is right all of the time, but value her presence and experience as much as possible.

I would say the same for the agency gentleman. My RW and I maintain homes and jobs both here and in the FSU. I have met agency owners. There are good and bad. The bad have arrogant attitudes and give the ladies a bad rap and don't do the men any favours either. On the other hand the good ones, and there are good ones, try to do their best to bring men and ladies together. Nothing in this owner's posts led me to believe him to be a danger to men. With restraint he held his composure against some pretty silly and unintelligent comments.

cooldadman
05-23-2007, 01:31 AM
Elena, I'm new here but will admit that it was surprising to see how bitter and misinformed some of the posters are. That is sad. I agree with the agency owner who posted that it takes both humility and intelligence to be successful with a Russian, Ukrainian, or Belarussian lady. Those attributes are in very short supply on this forum.

You and I even disagreed on one of my earlier posts, yet we didn't call each other names. Although we didn't address each other personally, I sensed that while we saw an issue a little differently, you respected my opinion and chose your reply carefully. Thank you. That is the difference between bitter existence and intelligent life forms.

I don't know either you or the earlier agency owner, but at some point would enjoy talking with each of you about some media projects.

Guys, when I first came here is was glaringly obvious that there was a serious lack of real world experience on this forum. I would hope that the men on this list could see Elena as a very unique link into the world each of you seek to discover. Instead of insults, why not ask her questions? She, as a RW, has more insight regarding these ladies in her little finger than 100,000 western men put together. It doesn't mean that she is right all of the time, but value her presence and experience as much as possible.

I would say the same for the agency gentleman. My RW and I maintain homes and jobs both here and in the FSU. I have met agency owners. There are good and bad. The bad have arrogant attitudes and give the ladies a bad rap and don't do the men any favours either. On the other hand the good ones, and there are good ones, try to do their best to bring men and ladies together. Nothing in this owner's posts led me to believe him to be a danger to men. With restraint he held his composure against some pretty silly and unintelligent comments.

cmiia
05-23-2007, 03:58 AM
How much are you getting paid to write such feigning nonsense, Cooldadman??. So you are keen to do business huh??. Go on, put your money on the table for all to see. Another antiscam site compromised by its own actions.

That is, of course if the poster even exists at all.

SHAM SAYS IT ALL.

cmiia
05-23-2007, 03:58 AM
How much are you getting paid to write such feigning nonsense, Cooldadman??. So you are keen to do business huh??. Go on, put your money on the table for all to see. Another antiscam site compromised by its own actions.

That is, of course if the poster even exists at all.

SHAM SAYS IT ALL.

cooldadman
05-23-2007, 06:31 AM
Bach, obviously you didn't read my original post on this site not so long ago. I don't represent, either positively or negatively, any agency or antiscam site. As explained previously I am a journalist. I made it clear that my purpose was to research trends in Russian foreign marriages for a series of articles and broadcasts.

If you believe that I'm secrectly representing some evil agency owner (and there are many of them) or another antiscam site, then we'll both come up empty. There is no "money to put on the table" as you put it. Sorry to disappoint you. But hey, I don't believe in UFOs either and the earth is not flat. Can't help you.

I am distressed at the constant bombardment the Russian government is doing to sway public opinion in Russia against foreign marriages. As someone who is married to a RW, I think that western men who look for a mate in the FSU are basically doing a good thing. I'm for guys marrying RW.

It bothers me greatly that in his last 3 annual state speeches President Putin has named foreign marriages as something which "concerns" him. You can see my original post for more details but several Duma members now openly speak of submitting legislation which would begin to seriously curtail the ability of RW and western men to marry.

Yes, I'm willing to talk to agency owners and other reputable people in this endeavor. Until this thread of posts I didn't know Elena has some sort of a website, but apparently it has to do with Russian women so I'm open to speaking with her as well. As mentioned in my original post, I'm willing to speak to anyone...provided they are intelligent. Sorry, just can't waste my time on bitter and angry loons.

I have written extensively on life and culture in the FSU. It has been my speciality for many years. To steal a quote from a country song, I was in the Soviet Union when it wasn't cool. For most of those years I was with a major American network but now have ventured off with my own small company. Much of my work now is done in reporting financial and investment news as relating to Russia and Ukraine. Fortune 500 investors could care less about Russian dating.

This series I am researching is a labour of love. It is borne out of sitting in my Moscow living room night after night watching the Russian government controlled media hammer American men as evil slaveowners, sexual perverts, murderers, child abusers, and the like. I'm sick of it and as I read Russian opinion columns and blog sites, I'm watching the tide of public opinion begin to turn. In another couple of years AM may face a very different climate when traveling to Russia and I don't want that to happen.

Bach, it may surprise you to know that a significant number of the Russian population now suspect that American families adopt Russian orphans in order to profit from "organ harvesting!" Compliments of the government media, thank you very much.

It's bigger than Russian dating. What is at stake here is a chance for two long time enemy states to finally have the opportuntiy to have some grassroots diplomacy. Grassroots, not just politicians. That is guys like you, who have a vested interest in seeing good and healthy relations between both countries. But it will be snuffed out if the current tide goes unchecked.

Do you realize that historically our two countries were allies? The days when Russian owned what is now Washington, Oregon, and the majority of what is now Northern California were days of close friendship between Russia and the USA.

I have access to Radio Mayak, the large government owned national radio network which covers all of Russia, Ukraine, and Belarussia. I also have access to several large publications. But that access is limited and I must use it wisely. So I cannot afford to waste it on promoting dating sites, tearing down dating sites, promoting antiscam sites, or tearing down antiscam sites, etc, etc, etc.

What I wish to do at the end of this year just before the holidays is a series of Russian media presentations about the GOOD things AM bring to the Russian culture. And about the good things RW bring to American/western culture.

What equally distresses me Bach is some of the most silly and downright stupidty being done in the name of "anti scam." In the long term, knee jerk reactions to what are often miscommunications and cultural misunderstandings will only hurt AM in the long term. And I have a pretty keen mind and sharp pen. I will use it to challenge stupidity and ignorance--no matter whether it comes from. That is the calling of true journalism.

To remind you one more time: I'm not for sale.

cooldadman
05-23-2007, 06:31 AM
Bach, obviously you didn't read my original post on this site not so long ago. I don't represent, either positively or negatively, any agency or antiscam site. As explained previously I am a journalist. I made it clear that my purpose was to research trends in Russian foreign marriages for a series of articles and broadcasts.

If you believe that I'm secrectly representing some evil agency owner (and there are many of them) or another antiscam site, then we'll both come up empty. There is no "money to put on the table" as you put it. Sorry to disappoint you. But hey, I don't believe in UFOs either and the earth is not flat. Can't help you.

I am distressed at the constant bombardment the Russian government is doing to sway public opinion in Russia against foreign marriages. As someone who is married to a RW, I think that western men who look for a mate in the FSU are basically doing a good thing. I'm for guys marrying RW.

It bothers me greatly that in his last 3 annual state speeches President Putin has named foreign marriages as something which "concerns" him. You can see my original post for more details but several Duma members now openly speak of submitting legislation which would begin to seriously curtail the ability of RW and western men to marry.

Yes, I'm willing to talk to agency owners and other reputable people in this endeavor. Until this thread of posts I didn't know Elena has some sort of a website, but apparently it has to do with Russian women so I'm open to speaking with her as well. As mentioned in my original post, I'm willing to speak to anyone...provided they are intelligent. Sorry, just can't waste my time on bitter and angry loons.

I have written extensively on life and culture in the FSU. It has been my speciality for many years. To steal a quote from a country song, I was in the Soviet Union when it wasn't cool. For most of those years I was with a major American network but now have ventured off with my own small company. Much of my work now is done in reporting financial and investment news as relating to Russia and Ukraine. Fortune 500 investors could care less about Russian dating.

This series I am researching is a labour of love. It is borne out of sitting in my Moscow living room night after night watching the Russian government controlled media hammer American men as evil slaveowners, sexual perverts, murderers, child abusers, and the like. I'm sick of it and as I read Russian opinion columns and blog sites, I'm watching the tide of public opinion begin to turn. In another couple of years AM may face a very different climate when traveling to Russia and I don't want that to happen.

Bach, it may surprise you to know that a significant number of the Russian population now suspect that American families adopt Russian orphans in order to profit from "organ harvesting!" Compliments of the government media, thank you very much.

It's bigger than Russian dating. What is at stake here is a chance for two long time enemy states to finally have the opportuntiy to have some grassroots diplomacy. Grassroots, not just politicians. That is guys like you, who have a vested interest in seeing good and healthy relations between both countries. But it will be snuffed out if the current tide goes unchecked.

Do you realize that historically our two countries were allies? The days when Russian owned what is now Washington, Oregon, and the majority of what is now Northern California were days of close friendship between Russia and the USA.

I have access to Radio Mayak, the large government owned national radio network which covers all of Russia, Ukraine, and Belarussia. I also have access to several large publications. But that access is limited and I must use it wisely. So I cannot afford to waste it on promoting dating sites, tearing down dating sites, promoting antiscam sites, or tearing down antiscam sites, etc, etc, etc.

What I wish to do at the end of this year just before the holidays is a series of Russian media presentations about the GOOD things AM bring to the Russian culture. And about the good things RW bring to American/western culture.

What equally distresses me Bach is some of the most silly and downright stupidty being done in the name of "anti scam." In the long term, knee jerk reactions to what are often miscommunications and cultural misunderstandings will only hurt AM in the long term. And I have a pretty keen mind and sharp pen. I will use it to challenge stupidity and ignorance--no matter whether it comes from. That is the calling of true journalism.

To remind you one more time: I'm not for sale.

ham
05-23-2007, 12:37 PM
quote:Do you realize that historically our two countries were allies? The days when Russian owned what is now Washington, Oregon, and the majority of what is now Northern California were days of close friendship between Russia and the USA.


pardon...?
care to justify this statement with verifiable sources?
If Russia owned Oregon, the French owned what? And Mexico/Spain owned what, if not California?
I hope you won't tell your readers Russia owned California...otherwise there's a pack of flying saucers ready to land...


quote:It bothers me greatly that in his last 3 annual state speeches President Putin has named foreign marriages as something which "concerns" him. You can see my original post for more details but several Duma members now openly speak of submitting legislation which would begin to seriously curtail the ability of RW and western men to marry.

1 IMBRA on the american side is doing no better, either.
2 i think FSU governments secretly laugh reading about huge amounts of unearnt foreign currencies flooding there because of the flourishing scam "industry".
3 while the chauvinistic rhetorics always holds returns, i wonder where the heck is all this "human drain" due to the MOB phenomenon...
I'd appreciate if you cared to document your assertion with verifiable sources.
Years ago US INS studies i read (see links elsewhere) stated MOBs accounted for a mere 0,21% (zerodot) of yearly US immigration, of whom FSU-MOBs represented roughly 1/3.
Hardly a flood or drain on either side.
Even if (still to be impartially documented) the overall percentage of MOBs soared in the meantime (upto what? 0,5...0,8%? ), US IMBRA is very likely to throttle the trend.
There are other countries, like EU or Australia, but i think the overall MOB % cannot be significantly higher than the USA.
All in all, i can't see this human drain.
Face it, as i have documented elsewhere (as sketchily as one wants, better than hearsay ) most profiles on the MOB dating shelf are years old, left behind and many (most?) "women" are conpeople, including a vast portion of men. And this doesn't even begin to take into account "gray" charachters, such as good-time-girls and novelty seekers.

ham
05-23-2007, 12:37 PM
quote:Do you realize that historically our two countries were allies? The days when Russian owned what is now Washington, Oregon, and the majority of what is now Northern California were days of close friendship between Russia and the USA.


pardon...?
care to justify this statement with verifiable sources?
If Russia owned Oregon, the French owned what? And Mexico/Spain owned what, if not California?
I hope you won't tell your readers Russia owned California...otherwise there's a pack of flying saucers ready to land...


quote:It bothers me greatly that in his last 3 annual state speeches President Putin has named foreign marriages as something which "concerns" him. You can see my original post for more details but several Duma members now openly speak of submitting legislation which would begin to seriously curtail the ability of RW and western men to marry.

1 IMBRA on the american side is doing no better, either.
2 i think FSU governments secretly laugh reading about huge amounts of unearnt foreign currencies flooding there because of the flourishing scam "industry".
3 while the chauvinistic rhetorics always holds returns, i wonder where the heck is all this "human drain" due to the MOB phenomenon...
I'd appreciate if you cared to document your assertion with verifiable sources.
Years ago US INS studies i read (see links elsewhere) stated MOBs accounted for a mere 0,21% (zerodot) of yearly US immigration, of whom FSU-MOBs represented roughly 1/3.
Hardly a flood or drain on either side.
Even if (still to be impartially documented) the overall percentage of MOBs soared in the meantime (upto what? 0,5...0,8%? ), US IMBRA is very likely to throttle the trend.
There are other countries, like EU or Australia, but i think the overall MOB % cannot be significantly higher than the USA.
All in all, i can't see this human drain.
Face it, as i have documented elsewhere (as sketchily as one wants, better than hearsay ) most profiles on the MOB dating shelf are years old, left behind and many (most?) "women" are conpeople, including a vast portion of men. And this doesn't even begin to take into account "gray" charachters, such as good-time-girls and novelty seekers.

elenag
05-23-2007, 01:23 PM
quote:Originally posted by cooldadman
I have access to Radio Mayak, the large government owned national radio network which covers all of Russia, Ukraine, and Belarussia. I also have access to several large publications. But that access is limited and I must use it wisely. So I cannot afford to waste it on promoting dating sites, tearing down dating sites, promoting antiscam sites, or tearing down antiscam sites, etc, etc, etc.

What I wish to do at the end of this year just before the holidays is a series of Russian media presentations about the GOOD things AM bring to the Russian culture. And about the good things RW bring to American/western culture.


cooldadman,

Have you been to Russian Women Guide? It's another forum (be careful there, the Antidate gals are running the show, so do not write there, just listen), you may get alot of interesting material there for your series. But more importantly, try RU Adventure and RWPrimer. Both a good, interesting places to visit. RWPrimer is run by Ronin, a very nice (it seems) guy, married to RW. RU Adventure was created by[disgrunted] members of Russia Women Guide so they could post without Antidate censorship, and they are mostly RW-AM couples, and some of the AMs are living in working in Russia, so they have alot of experiece to share.

Since you don't have that much time before the end of the year, I would say go stright there, read for a day, get a feel for who is who, and then approach the members who you think could be useful for you.

I would be happy to help you, but my problem is my time, once the school semester starts I am usually mostly out of pocket.

elenag
05-23-2007, 01:23 PM
quote:Originally posted by cooldadman
I have access to Radio Mayak, the large government owned national radio network which covers all of Russia, Ukraine, and Belarussia. I also have access to several large publications. But that access is limited and I must use it wisely. So I cannot afford to waste it on promoting dating sites, tearing down dating sites, promoting antiscam sites, or tearing down antiscam sites, etc, etc, etc.

What I wish to do at the end of this year just before the holidays is a series of Russian media presentations about the GOOD things AM bring to the Russian culture. And about the good things RW bring to American/western culture.


cooldadman,

Have you been to Russian Women Guide? It's another forum (be careful there, the Antidate gals are running the show, so do not write there, just listen), you may get alot of interesting material there for your series. But more importantly, try RU Adventure and RWPrimer. Both a good, interesting places to visit. RWPrimer is run by Ronin, a very nice (it seems) guy, married to RW. RU Adventure was created by[disgrunted] members of Russia Women Guide so they could post without Antidate censorship, and they are mostly RW-AM couples, and some of the AMs are living in working in Russia, so they have alot of experiece to share.

Since you don't have that much time before the end of the year, I would say go stright there, read for a day, get a feel for who is who, and then approach the members who you think could be useful for you.

I would be happy to help you, but my problem is my time, once the school semester starts I am usually mostly out of pocket.

ham
05-23-2007, 02:54 PM
quote:Have you been to Russian Women Guide? It's another forum (be careful there, the Antidate gals are running the show, so do not write there, just listen),

HAHAHA!
Commercial forums are a damn joke!

Now the survivors of the band of clowns relocated to RWD.
It is funny such a nutty house of agency pimps as old RWG turned into an antidate franchise...

ham
05-23-2007, 02:54 PM
quote:Have you been to Russian Women Guide? It's another forum (be careful there, the Antidate gals are running the show, so do not write there, just listen),

HAHAHA!
Commercial forums are a damn joke!

Now the survivors of the band of clowns relocated to RWD.
It is funny such a nutty house of agency pimps as old RWG turned into an antidate franchise...

cmiia
05-23-2007, 08:29 PM
I'm not sure what you're smoking cooldadman but obviously it's having the desired effect.

Enjoy your delusions.

cmiia
05-23-2007, 08:29 PM
I'm not sure what you're smoking cooldadman but obviously it's having the desired effect.

Enjoy your delusions.

cmiia
05-23-2007, 09:36 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Ross%2C_California


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_colonization_of_the_Americas


They were merely trading outposts.

Keep trying.

cmiia
05-23-2007, 09:36 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Ross%2C_California


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_colonization_of_the_Americas


They were merely trading outposts.

Keep trying.

cooldadman
05-24-2007, 01:57 AM
Bach, better dust off the history books. Both Russia and Spain claimed North Calif, at the time only Russia has viable outposts. I said nothing about Southern Cal and made that clear. Better take a ride up the Russian river (that's still it's name) and learn more of the history too.

Putin's comments are easy to check. Just go to any Russian news source. If would help if you read Russian but the Russian world broadcast service does hold English language versions in the archives. As does Radio Mayak.

As to whether or not it is truly a "drain," that is not for either of us to debate. The reality is that Putin and other national leaders have made it an issue. You should know by now that politicians don't need facts to enact laws!

I would agree about the potential damage of the new IMBRA law. That makes no sense to me. On the other hand, the US goverment has required background checks of RW coming here for a long time. So perhaps it's somewhat fair.

I'm not certain why it pays to so so upset over old photos, etc. Any man interested in a gal surely can ask her for recent photos. And he should provide the same for her. Sniffing out a scammer isn't that difficult either...unless you simply are a bumbling idiot.

I lived in Russia and met and married my wife there. However I know several guys who have written RW, wrote more than one, traveled, and eventually married. Last year two of my friends did just that. Interestingly both ended up engaged to different ladies than they were writing.

Because of the time I spend in both countries (and in Ukraine) I get to see lot of AM and will tell you that "we" make some of the most silly and stupid mistakes in approaching and dating FSU ladies. Sometimes I shake my head in amazement that anybody is successful in getting married. On the other hand there are men who come over very focused, realistic, and have researched the culture and customs. These are the guys who seem to get their pick and return home successful.

Okay, I am not familiar with several of the lists mentioned lately here. Who/what are the Antidate girls? And the Russian Women's Guide?

Of the men on this list I'd like to take a poll:
1) Who are the largest 3 agencies in Russia?
2) Largest 3 in Ukraine?

3) Who has the reputation of being the most dishonest agency in Russia?

4) Who is most dishonest in Ukraine?

5) Of the times you have traveled to Russia/Ukraine/Belarussia, what was your biggest success?

5a) What was your largest disappointment?

Thanks for participating.

cooldadman
05-24-2007, 01:57 AM
Bach, better dust off the history books. Both Russia and Spain claimed North Calif, at the time only Russia has viable outposts. I said nothing about Southern Cal and made that clear. Better take a ride up the Russian river (that's still it's name) and learn more of the history too.

Putin's comments are easy to check. Just go to any Russian news source. If would help if you read Russian but the Russian world broadcast service does hold English language versions in the archives. As does Radio Mayak.

As to whether or not it is truly a "drain," that is not for either of us to debate. The reality is that Putin and other national leaders have made it an issue. You should know by now that politicians don't need facts to enact laws!

I would agree about the potential damage of the new IMBRA law. That makes no sense to me. On the other hand, the US goverment has required background checks of RW coming here for a long time. So perhaps it's somewhat fair.

I'm not certain why it pays to so so upset over old photos, etc. Any man interested in a gal surely can ask her for recent photos. And he should provide the same for her. Sniffing out a scammer isn't that difficult either...unless you simply are a bumbling idiot.

I lived in Russia and met and married my wife there. However I know several guys who have written RW, wrote more than one, traveled, and eventually married. Last year two of my friends did just that. Interestingly both ended up engaged to different ladies than they were writing.

Because of the time I spend in both countries (and in Ukraine) I get to see lot of AM and will tell you that "we" make some of the most silly and stupid mistakes in approaching and dating FSU ladies. Sometimes I shake my head in amazement that anybody is successful in getting married. On the other hand there are men who come over very focused, realistic, and have researched the culture and customs. These are the guys who seem to get their pick and return home successful.

Okay, I am not familiar with several of the lists mentioned lately here. Who/what are the Antidate girls? And the Russian Women's Guide?

Of the men on this list I'd like to take a poll:
1) Who are the largest 3 agencies in Russia?
2) Largest 3 in Ukraine?

3) Who has the reputation of being the most dishonest agency in Russia?

4) Who is most dishonest in Ukraine?

5) Of the times you have traveled to Russia/Ukraine/Belarussia, what was your biggest success?

5a) What was your largest disappointment?

Thanks for participating.

cmiia
05-24-2007, 03:36 AM
[quote]Originally posted by cooldadman
Better take a ride up the Russian river (that's still it's name) and learn more of the history too.

I am not American, have no need to visit so your suggestion is frankly, irrelevant.

Perhaps your next 'crusade' might be to educate your ignorant fellow Americans of which it seems there is an endless supply. I'd suggest starting from the Whitehouse down, perhaps??.

Putin's comments are easy to check.

Forgive me if I decline to slavishly follow all that comes from his mouth. Not especially interested.


I'm still curious as to why you need to boast about your achievements to complete strangers on a forum. Surely you'd have more appropriate ways of expressing your opinions

You state facts, yet you provide no
sources to illustate your views. Hardly the guise of a journalist?

You say you were with a'major network' but neglect to show us any evidence . Interesting. Show us some links to the extensive literature you have compiled over the years. Article names, journal names, publication dates you get the picture.

cmiia
05-24-2007, 03:36 AM
[quote]Originally posted by cooldadman
Better take a ride up the Russian river (that's still it's name) and learn more of the history too.

I am not American, have no need to visit so your suggestion is frankly, irrelevant.

Perhaps your next 'crusade' might be to educate your ignorant fellow Americans of which it seems there is an endless supply. I'd suggest starting from the Whitehouse down, perhaps??.

Putin's comments are easy to check.

Forgive me if I decline to slavishly follow all that comes from his mouth. Not especially interested.


I'm still curious as to why you need to boast about your achievements to complete strangers on a forum. Surely you'd have more appropriate ways of expressing your opinions

You state facts, yet you provide no
sources to illustate your views. Hardly the guise of a journalist?

You say you were with a'major network' but neglect to show us any evidence . Interesting. Show us some links to the extensive literature you have compiled over the years. Article names, journal names, publication dates you get the picture.

ham
05-24-2007, 05:26 AM
quote:Originally posted by bach1685

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Ross%2C_California


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_colonization_of_the_Americas


They were merely trading outposts.

Keep trying.




well, yes Vikings reached America CENTURIES before Columbus.
A legend says Columbus saw or heard of a map portraying shores of a new world (but at the time you had plenty of fantasy lands on maps) and the map was of viking origin.
The "trading outpost" works poorly documenting "russian colonization" outside Alaska.
You had "outposts" in the far west by the French and Metis ages before "society" came.
Any number of runaways or fur traders could "set up an outpost"...which might merely consist in a hearth and a few tents...that is far from claiming "Russia" was entitled to the territory.


quote:As to whether or not it is truly a "drain," that is not for either of us to debate. The reality is that Putin and other national leaders have made it an issue. You should know by now that politicians don't need facts to enact laws!

I would agree about the potential damage of the new IMBRA law. That makes no sense to me. On the other hand, the US goverment has required background checks of RW coming here for a long time. So perhaps it's somewhat fair.

well, as i said elsewhere...the MOB fad is...fading.

ham
05-24-2007, 05:26 AM
quote:Originally posted by bach1685

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Ross%2C_California


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_colonization_of_the_Americas


They were merely trading outposts.

Keep trying.




well, yes Vikings reached America CENTURIES before Columbus.
A legend says Columbus saw or heard of a map portraying shores of a new world (but at the time you had plenty of fantasy lands on maps) and the map was of viking origin.
The "trading outpost" works poorly documenting "russian colonization" outside Alaska.
You had "outposts" in the far west by the French and Metis ages before "society" came.
Any number of runaways or fur traders could "set up an outpost"...which might merely consist in a hearth and a few tents...that is far from claiming "Russia" was entitled to the territory.


quote:As to whether or not it is truly a "drain," that is not for either of us to debate. The reality is that Putin and other national leaders have made it an issue. You should know by now that politicians don't need facts to enact laws!

I would agree about the potential damage of the new IMBRA law. That makes no sense to me. On the other hand, the US goverment has required background checks of RW coming here for a long time. So perhaps it's somewhat fair.

well, as i said elsewhere...the MOB fad is...fading.

elenag
05-24-2007, 01:23 PM
quote:Originally posted by ham
Commercial forums are a damn joke!

Now the survivors of the band of clowns relocated to RWD.
It is funny such a nutty house of agency pimps as old RWG turned into an antidate franchise...

I personally don't see TomT, or ScottJay, or Shadow, etc. as "agency pimps" at all. I personally never heard them pimping for any agency (although they might have in the past, before I was there). I don't think they care much for any agencies in particular.

I cannot agree more on the "franchise" part of the comment. It is pretty amazing.

elenag
05-24-2007, 01:23 PM
quote:Originally posted by ham
Commercial forums are a damn joke!

Now the survivors of the band of clowns relocated to RWD.
It is funny such a nutty house of agency pimps as old RWG turned into an antidate franchise...

I personally don't see TomT, or ScottJay, or Shadow, etc. as "agency pimps" at all. I personally never heard them pimping for any agency (although they might have in the past, before I was there). I don't think they care much for any agencies in particular.

I cannot agree more on the "franchise" part of the comment. It is pretty amazing.

elenag
05-24-2007, 01:24 PM
Although there were some agency owners who were "pimping," it is true.

elenag
05-24-2007, 01:24 PM
Although there were some agency owners who were "pimping," it is true.

elenag
05-24-2007, 01:30 PM
quote:Originally posted by ham


quote:Originally posted by bach1685

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Ross%2C_California


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_colonization_of_the_Americas


They were merely trading outposts.

Keep trying.




well, yes Vikings reached America CENTURIES before Columbus.
A legend says Columbus saw or heard of a map portraying shores of a new world (but at the time you had plenty of fantasy lands on maps) and the map was of viking origin.
The "trading outpost" works poorly documenting "russian colonization" outside Alaska.
You had "outposts" in the far west by the French and Metis ages before "society" came.
Any number of runaways or fur traders could "set up an outpost"...which might merely consist in a hearth and a few tents...that is far from claiming "Russia" was entitled to the territory.

Why don't you guys open a new HISTORY section of the board? :rolleyes:

elenag
05-24-2007, 01:30 PM
quote:Originally posted by ham


quote:Originally posted by bach1685

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Ross%2C_California


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_colonization_of_the_Americas


They were merely trading outposts.

Keep trying.




well, yes Vikings reached America CENTURIES before Columbus.
A legend says Columbus saw or heard of a map portraying shores of a new world (but at the time you had plenty of fantasy lands on maps) and the map was of viking origin.
The "trading outpost" works poorly documenting "russian colonization" outside Alaska.
You had "outposts" in the far west by the French and Metis ages before "society" came.
Any number of runaways or fur traders could "set up an outpost"...which might merely consist in a hearth and a few tents...that is far from claiming "Russia" was entitled to the territory.

Why don't you guys open a new HISTORY section of the board? :rolleyes:

elenag
05-24-2007, 01:36 PM
quote:Originally posted by cooldadman
Okay, I am not familiar with several of the lists mentioned lately here. Who/what are the Antidate girls? And the Russian Women's Guide?


Google! Google is your friend! :D
I think it would be better not to post direct links here or some innocent-minded RW-hating fool may go there and be devoured alive by the sharp-teethed flying monkeys (I remember there were such characters in the Wizard of Oz).... [:o)]

elenag
05-24-2007, 01:36 PM
quote:Originally posted by cooldadman
Okay, I am not familiar with several of the lists mentioned lately here. Who/what are the Antidate girls? And the Russian Women's Guide?


Google! Google is your friend! :D
I think it would be better not to post direct links here or some innocent-minded RW-hating fool may go there and be devoured alive by the sharp-teethed flying monkeys (I remember there were such characters in the Wizard of Oz).... [:o)]

elenag
05-24-2007, 01:42 PM
This way we at least won't feel responsible for his premature and painful demise...

elenag
05-24-2007, 01:42 PM
This way we at least won't feel responsible for his premature and painful demise...

ham
05-24-2007, 02:02 PM
quote:Originally posted by elenag


quote:Originally posted by ham


quote:Originally posted by bach1685

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Ross%2C_California


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_colonization_of_the_Americas


They were merely trading outposts.

Keep trying.




well, yes Vikings reached America CENTURIES before Columbus.
A legend says Columbus saw or heard of a map portraying shores of a new world (but at the time you had plenty of fantasy lands on maps) and the map was of viking origin.
The "trading outpost" works poorly documenting "russian colonization" outside Alaska.
You had "outposts" in the far west by the French and Metis ages before "society" came.
Any number of runaways or fur traders could "set up an outpost"...which might merely consist in a hearth and a few tents...that is far from claiming "Russia" was entitled to the territory.

Why don't you guys open a new HISTORY section of the board? :rolleyes:


well, it isn't going to get you a sale [:o)][:o)] but i think misconceptions should be addressed

ham
05-24-2007, 02:02 PM
quote:Originally posted by elenag


quote:Originally posted by ham


quote:Originally posted by bach1685

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Ross%2C_California


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_colonization_of_the_Americas


They were merely trading outposts.

Keep trying.




well, yes Vikings reached America CENTURIES before Columbus.
A legend says Columbus saw or heard of a map portraying shores of a new world (but at the time you had plenty of fantasy lands on maps) and the map was of viking origin.
The "trading outpost" works poorly documenting "russian colonization" outside Alaska.
You had "outposts" in the far west by the French and Metis ages before "society" came.
Any number of runaways or fur traders could "set up an outpost"...which might merely consist in a hearth and a few tents...that is far from claiming "Russia" was entitled to the territory.

Why don't you guys open a new HISTORY section of the board? :rolleyes:


well, it isn't going to get you a sale [:o)][:o)] but i think misconceptions should be addressed

ham
05-24-2007, 02:44 PM
quote:Originally posted by elenag

Although there were some agency owners who were "pimping," it is true.


Only "some"?
Old RWG was the filthiest hotbed of agency owners & middlemen ever.
You'd get honey dew letters to join one of the 19 agencies pimped by the oddball-pundits. If you turned deaf ear, they'd turn against you.
From privileges to immunity to space for "invaluable advice columns", all was "negotiable" there, including their honor...good old "Jack, Jim and Dan" games you must be very familiar with.
Now tha band of clowns relocated to RWD, after RWG got sold for tidy amounts of money (in the face of those who claim it's public service & there is no money to be made ).
The band of clowns planted seeds in other places as well.
They even sent a moron to RWA to harass me under multiple aliases, and to pester the forum's owner with stories about my "agenda".
Now you get you're dealing with nutcases reading how this weirdo described himself

quote:POINT? I\'m divorced. 35 years old. Qualified nuclear reactor operator ( designs S1W, S5W, S5G). Expert on robotic systems.


One of the many aliases he admitted to having pointed to a community college idiot looking like actor Robert Davi.
Can anyone get more fake than that?

ham
05-24-2007, 02:44 PM
quote:Originally posted by elenag

Although there were some agency owners who were "pimping," it is true.


Only "some"?
Old RWG was the filthiest hotbed of agency owners & middlemen ever.
You'd get honey dew letters to join one of the 19 agencies pimped by the oddball-pundits. If you turned deaf ear, they'd turn against you.
From privileges to immunity to space for "invaluable advice columns", all was "negotiable" there, including their honor...good old "Jack, Jim and Dan" games you must be very familiar with.
Now tha band of clowns relocated to RWD, after RWG got sold for tidy amounts of money (in the face of those who claim it's public service & there is no money to be made ).
The band of clowns planted seeds in other places as well.
They even sent a moron to RWA to harass me under multiple aliases, and to pester the forum's owner with stories about my "agenda".
Now you get you're dealing with nutcases reading how this weirdo described himself

quote:POINT? I\'m divorced. 35 years old. Qualified nuclear reactor operator ( designs S1W, S5W, S5G). Expert on robotic systems.


One of the many aliases he admitted to having pointed to a community college idiot looking like actor Robert Davi.
Can anyone get more fake than that?

cmiia
05-24-2007, 10:16 PM
Well.....cooldadman is doing a pretty good job.

cmiia
05-24-2007, 10:16 PM
Well.....cooldadman is doing a pretty good job.

cooldadman
05-25-2007, 07:30 AM
With amusement I read the info about Fort Ross. While we won't settle this debate by screaming at each other on a forum, and I have no time for a pointless debate, there are a couple of places to find serious info: The Center for Columbia River History in Vancouver, Washington and the Oregon History Project at the University of Oregon in Corvallis, OR might be eye-opening for some.

I had wished to point out that prior to the Russian revolution in 1917, the USA and Russia were on good terms. And that included ironing out wrinkles with countries like Russia (and Spain and Great Britian) over who controlled the Pacific Northwest in our quest for Manifest Destiny "from sea to shining sea."

Even more importantly, I think it's high time for the US and Russia to again be allies. And that isn't happening, and not all of that is Russia's fault. Ordinary guys, like you and me, can have an influence in public policy in both countries. Don't you feel it's worth the effort?

Bach, I would have thought you intelligent enough to understand that in today's world the one thing an international journalist values over just about anything else is privacy. You won't find Tom Brokaw (and I am certainly not claiming to be Tom) revealing his identity either. And while I'm not targeted for assissination (well maybe my Russian MIL but that's another story), my family's safety (and there are nuts out there who make threats to any kind of published journalist) is more important to my wife and children than for me to fling it about the world wide web.

So here is a deal for you: Next time you travel to Moscow let me know. We can meet somewhere public and if I'm convinced you are not a deranged Russian hating idiot, I'll give you a tour. It will include one, or maybe even two popular Russian magazines and a national Russian network. Russian media is pretty closed to the public and via the security processes we will go thru, you'll understand whether or not I'm lying about access to media. You'll need to get me a passport copy and a background check will be done in advance. That part is not for my benefit--it will be a requirement of the people who will grant us such access. Fair enough?

There is a reason why all of us, yourself included, use handles on a public forum. A more substantial way to find out whether or not I'm an imposter or know more than a little something about life and culture in the FSU would be to reasonable discuss life there. I've not called into question your time in Russia or Ukraine so certainly there could be some things we could discuss. Such might be fruitful to new guys who have not yet traveled or are afraid of traveling there.

And it would certainly be more productive than called each other names on this forum.

cooldadman
05-25-2007, 07:30 AM
With amusement I read the info about Fort Ross. While we won't settle this debate by screaming at each other on a forum, and I have no time for a pointless debate, there are a couple of places to find serious info: The Center for Columbia River History in Vancouver, Washington and the Oregon History Project at the University of Oregon in Corvallis, OR might be eye-opening for some.

I had wished to point out that prior to the Russian revolution in 1917, the USA and Russia were on good terms. And that included ironing out wrinkles with countries like Russia (and Spain and Great Britian) over who controlled the Pacific Northwest in our quest for Manifest Destiny "from sea to shining sea."

Even more importantly, I think it's high time for the US and Russia to again be allies. And that isn't happening, and not all of that is Russia's fault. Ordinary guys, like you and me, can have an influence in public policy in both countries. Don't you feel it's worth the effort?

Bach, I would have thought you intelligent enough to understand that in today's world the one thing an international journalist values over just about anything else is privacy. You won't find Tom Brokaw (and I am certainly not claiming to be Tom) revealing his identity either. And while I'm not targeted for assissination (well maybe my Russian MIL but that's another story), my family's safety (and there are nuts out there who make threats to any kind of published journalist) is more important to my wife and children than for me to fling it about the world wide web.

So here is a deal for you: Next time you travel to Moscow let me know. We can meet somewhere public and if I'm convinced you are not a deranged Russian hating idiot, I'll give you a tour. It will include one, or maybe even two popular Russian magazines and a national Russian network. Russian media is pretty closed to the public and via the security processes we will go thru, you'll understand whether or not I'm lying about access to media. You'll need to get me a passport copy and a background check will be done in advance. That part is not for my benefit--it will be a requirement of the people who will grant us such access. Fair enough?

There is a reason why all of us, yourself included, use handles on a public forum. A more substantial way to find out whether or not I'm an imposter or know more than a little something about life and culture in the FSU would be to reasonable discuss life there. I've not called into question your time in Russia or Ukraine so certainly there could be some things we could discuss. Such might be fruitful to new guys who have not yet traveled or are afraid of traveling there.

And it would certainly be more productive than called each other names on this forum.

ham
05-25-2007, 08:25 AM
quote:The Center for Columbia River History in Vancouver, Washington and the Oregon History Project at the University of Oregon in Corvallis, OR might be eye-opening for some.


Most are just familiar with the Malvinas islands being claimed by the UK or Argentina (as a result of decolonization of the Spanish colonial empire ). Few know France held claims over these islands and a french explorer laid the french flag there. Hardly a reason to claim France owned Malvinas.

ham
05-25-2007, 08:25 AM
quote:The Center for Columbia River History in Vancouver, Washington and the Oregon History Project at the University of Oregon in Corvallis, OR might be eye-opening for some.


Most are just familiar with the Malvinas islands being claimed by the UK or Argentina (as a result of decolonization of the Spanish colonial empire ). Few know France held claims over these islands and a french explorer laid the french flag there. Hardly a reason to claim France owned Malvinas.

seajay
05-25-2007, 01:38 PM
Question for cooldadman, journalist.

I begin by saying I respect your knowledge, and found your postings informative. I hope you answer, but of course will understand if you don't.

You are married to a Russian lady. Your marriage seems functional. This makes you the elusive "success story" that at least two other participants have challenged to come forward.

But I get the impression that, unlike most RW seekers, you are a man who has:

(1) more than a passing command of the Russian language,
(2) a good understanding of the people there, and,
most significantly,
(3) WEALTH. You can afford the constant airfares back and forth to Russia, and you own residences in America and in Moscow - arguably the most expensive city on Earth.

From your observations, would you say that unless an RW-Seeker has all three of these things, he is just spinning his wheels?

seajay
05-25-2007, 01:38 PM
Question for cooldadman, journalist.

I begin by saying I respect your knowledge, and found your postings informative. I hope you answer, but of course will understand if you don't.

You are married to a Russian lady. Your marriage seems functional. This makes you the elusive "success story" that at least two other participants have challenged to come forward.

But I get the impression that, unlike most RW seekers, you are a man who has:

(1) more than a passing command of the Russian language,
(2) a good understanding of the people there, and,
most significantly,
(3) WEALTH. You can afford the constant airfares back and forth to Russia, and you own residences in America and in Moscow - arguably the most expensive city on Earth.

From your observations, would you say that unless an RW-Seeker has all three of these things, he is just spinning his wheels?

ham
05-25-2007, 02:47 PM
quote:(1) more than a passing command of the Russian language,
(2) a good understanding of the people there, and,
most significantly,
(3) WEALTH. You can afford the constant airfares back and forth to Russia, and you own residences in America and in Moscow - arguably the most expensive city on Earth.

the other poster will answer if he so wishes.
my answer is a sound: YES, with #2 coming second.
Of course one has not to live in Moscow downtown and has not to be a millionaire or other glamour (fake) charachter you find on the internet so often, but a certain amount of wealth and "disposable income" is a must.
I will relocate there whenever possible...maybe i'm just deluded, but i think most fortnight millionaires might very likely end up as:

http://stop-scammers.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=755




quote:AND HERE IT TURNS OUT:
The apartment is tiny. The couch on the foto is in someone else's
apartment. He lives at the edge of a small town and out
of his kitchen window one can see a near by farm. The living room
furniture is about 20 years old. And the groom himself
is not as happy in his own world as he was in Russia. He is not on
vacation. He is at home. And it's very different. Here he
is worried about his problems. He is often in a bad mood. Upon
receiving a new bill he is nervously touching his mustage.
He gets impatient with Lena. He gets annoyed at her son just by
looking at him. Conversations in Russian with lena's son
make him crimson red. He is always imagining they are discussing him.
Lena feels increasingly uneasy, nobody is flying her to Maiami. At
the supermarket she meets his angry stare when she
reaches for a colorful box of cookies. But the real fight happens
when the phone bill arrives end of the month. Lena often
calls home to share her worries with her mom. The life becomes
unbearable but there is no way to return. She is already
married. She left her job, burned her bridges. No, of course it's
possible to come back. But? Lena, are you crazy?! ?
a friend is screaming into the phone, - there are no jobs...The water
is turned off. A little boy was raped in school.
Lena calms doen for the time being. But not for long. She looks at
the aging apartment and at a husband whom she is
beginning to hate and tears feel her eyes..

ham
05-25-2007, 02:47 PM
quote:(1) more than a passing command of the Russian language,
(2) a good understanding of the people there, and,
most significantly,
(3) WEALTH. You can afford the constant airfares back and forth to Russia, and you own residences in America and in Moscow - arguably the most expensive city on Earth.

the other poster will answer if he so wishes.
my answer is a sound: YES, with #2 coming second.
Of course one has not to live in Moscow downtown and has not to be a millionaire or other glamour (fake) charachter you find on the internet so often, but a certain amount of wealth and "disposable income" is a must.
I will relocate there whenever possible...maybe i'm just deluded, but i think most fortnight millionaires might very likely end up as:

http://stop-scammers.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=755




quote:AND HERE IT TURNS OUT:
The apartment is tiny. The couch on the foto is in someone else's
apartment. He lives at the edge of a small town and out
of his kitchen window one can see a near by farm. The living room
furniture is about 20 years old. And the groom himself
is not as happy in his own world as he was in Russia. He is not on
vacation. He is at home. And it's very different. Here he
is worried about his problems. He is often in a bad mood. Upon
receiving a new bill he is nervously touching his mustage.
He gets impatient with Lena. He gets annoyed at her son just by
looking at him. Conversations in Russian with lena's son
make him crimson red. He is always imagining they are discussing him.
Lena feels increasingly uneasy, nobody is flying her to Maiami. At
the supermarket she meets his angry stare when she
reaches for a colorful box of cookies. But the real fight happens
when the phone bill arrives end of the month. Lena often
calls home to share her worries with her mom. The life becomes
unbearable but there is no way to return. She is already
married. She left her job, burned her bridges. No, of course it's
possible to come back. But? Lena, are you crazy?! ?
a friend is screaming into the phone, - there are no jobs...The water
is turned off. A little boy was raped in school.
Lena calms doen for the time being. But not for long. She looks at
the aging apartment and at a husband whom she is
beginning to hate and tears feel her eyes..

Amerikanski
05-25-2007, 07:31 PM
Ham & Co.

I am a successful businessman in my early 40's, with two graduate degrees, including a top 10 MBA program. Money is not a problem for me.

In the last decade, I have made many friends who married or are married to FSU women. Are they universally miserable? For the most part, I would say "yes," with a couple of exceptions.

I am not a Russian hating idiot. Far from it. I have nothing but deep admiration for the Russian people and their culture. That is what led me to become involved with my FSU woman in the first place.

I do think that love with a FSU woman is possible, just not through an agency. I also think that 99% of the women looking for men through agencies are going to have the same unrealistic expectations that the poor duraks who sign up there also have. It is a clash of cultures, expectations, life styles, and values. It is not for the fainthearted, the weak, the self-conscious, or anyone with a thin pocketbook.

So I say, good for cooldadman. Just don't throw your shoulder out of joint slapping yourself on the back. For every one of you, there are fifty of us.

Amerikanski
05-25-2007, 07:31 PM
Ham & Co.

I am a successful businessman in my early 40's, with two graduate degrees, including a top 10 MBA program. Money is not a problem for me.

In the last decade, I have made many friends who married or are married to FSU women. Are they universally miserable? For the most part, I would say "yes," with a couple of exceptions.

I am not a Russian hating idiot. Far from it. I have nothing but deep admiration for the Russian people and their culture. That is what led me to become involved with my FSU woman in the first place.

I do think that love with a FSU woman is possible, just not through an agency. I also think that 99% of the women looking for men through agencies are going to have the same unrealistic expectations that the poor duraks who sign up there also have. It is a clash of cultures, expectations, life styles, and values. It is not for the fainthearted, the weak, the self-conscious, or anyone with a thin pocketbook.

So I say, good for cooldadman. Just don't throw your shoulder out of joint slapping yourself on the back. For every one of you, there are fifty of us.

elenag
05-25-2007, 10:37 PM
quote:Originally posted by seajay

Question for cooldadman, journalist.

I begin by saying I respect your knowledge, and found your postings informative. I hope you answer, but of course will understand if you don't.

You are married to a Russian lady. Your marriage seems functional. This makes you the elusive "success story" that at least two other participants have challenged to come forward.

But I get the impression that, unlike most RW seekers, you are a man who has:

(1) more than a passing command of the Russian language,
(2) a good understanding of the people there, and,
most significantly,
(3) WEALTH. You can afford the constant airfares back and forth to Russia, and you own residences in America and in Moscow - arguably the most expensive city on Earth.

From your observations, would you say that unless an RW-Seeker has all three of these things, he is just spinning his wheels?

I am another "success story." But I dare not to speak of it, trembling of the thought that I might awaken the evil spirit of Ham The Great.
PS.My husband does not have any of the three.

elenag
05-25-2007, 10:37 PM
quote:Originally posted by seajay

Question for cooldadman, journalist.

I begin by saying I respect your knowledge, and found your postings informative. I hope you answer, but of course will understand if you don't.

You are married to a Russian lady. Your marriage seems functional. This makes you the elusive "success story" that at least two other participants have challenged to come forward.

But I get the impression that, unlike most RW seekers, you are a man who has:

(1) more than a passing command of the Russian language,
(2) a good understanding of the people there, and,
most significantly,
(3) WEALTH. You can afford the constant airfares back and forth to Russia, and you own residences in America and in Moscow - arguably the most expensive city on Earth.

From your observations, would you say that unless an RW-Seeker has all three of these things, he is just spinning his wheels?

I am another "success story." But I dare not to speak of it, trembling of the thought that I might awaken the evil spirit of Ham The Great.
PS.My husband does not have any of the three.

cooldadman
05-26-2007, 01:00 AM
Seajay, you ask sincere questions and I actually agree with much of what Ham had to say also. I had traveled previously to the region on short jaunts to cover specific stories as mandated by my employer. While it exposed me to Russian (and Ukrainian) life, staying in western style hotels and being surrounded by guides and translators certainly did not give me a handle on what it would be like to live there day to day.

Hotels, especially western style hotels, are a big mistake for guys who seek a RW. Not only does it give the impression that you are wealthy, but it shields you from seeing the real world in which she lives. You need to stay in a normal apartment to understand how her life is lived day by day. That also gives you incredible insight into life in her neighborhood. Often you will discover either wonderful character qualities or uncover serious character flaws just by living (even for a week or so) in her neighborhood. No hotel can give you that experience.

While some agencies are honest and decent folks, most are not. Most are mafia controlled, operated or influenced. The honest ones that I know of are very small. But in the small agency, perhaps there are the ladies who are real and genuine. Usually the smaller town the better. The big cities are full of sharks.

Better to visit out of the way little cities and villages where family values are still cherished and honesty is a way of life. Advantage: most guys only travel to the big cities where it's convenient. Yet, some of the most stunning and beautiful (inside and outside) girls never see an AM because they live off the beaten path. The average AM would be shocked to discover what he could bring home with him if he would get out of the big cities.

Those hot 23 year olds are not really looking for a 48 year old dude. They just aren't, no matter how much garbage is written about the supposedly large age differences. Those age differences cannot be seen in Russian society. And if you bring that young hottie here, her looks and sexy accent will have younger and wealthier men circling like vultures. You won't keep her for long.

Several years ago out of a sincere and heartfelt desire, I converted to Russian Orthodoxy. If you want to see success stories, visit a Russian church in your city.
Most of these success couples just don't have time to brag about their successes...they are busy having babies, maintaining jobs, adjusting to life, etc. But they are definitely here. The heartbreakers are here also...marrying a RW is not a magic pill for happiness.

What does a successful marriage looks like:
1) From observation of other successful marriages, the man has learned at least the basics in Russian. He can tell her that he loves her in the language of her heart. She FEELS it without having to translate it from English to Russian in her mind.)

2) The man has learned enough about her culture to understand how she views the home, intimate family, and extended family relationships. Unfortunately those are largely different than what we experience in American life.

She manages the home and is offended when he has a strong opinion on interior decorations, meal preparations, etc. Success stories include the man learning to appreciate Russian foods. Relax, she will become Americanized before you know it.

She likes it that you have a job, but feels offended when you work late. It reminds her too much of her ex who used to drop off at the bar for hours before coming home to beat her and the kid. In our culture we value overtime and having dinner with a client. In hers, your investment should be in your wife and children.

3) Success stories realize that she needs Russian friends, especially during the crucial early adjustment years. Guys who shield her from others will lose her. If she is genuine, she wants to include you in her new friendships here. She is proud to introduce Russians to her AM. By the way, as a few years go by she will be more choosey about her friends and eventually her circle will include as many AW as RW. It just takes a little time.

4) You can take this one to the bank--if you will accept and love her child, then you will own her heart forever. A RW is taught to be loyal to family and if you include her child in your family, then she will make your marriage her number one priority.

Bringing a childless lady here is a 50-50 crapshoot. Bring a mother here may not be foolproof but gives you a much better chance of success because she will be much more focused on creating a home and family.

5) Understand what extended family means in her culture. The first time I was asked to share some money so that Uncle Mikailovich could repair his car I was waiting to hear when it would be repaid. My wife was offended. In her culture they care for each other as an extended family. If Aunt Lyuba needs $500 to travel to Poland to see her long-lost sister, everyone pitches in. And it is understood that someday when you have a need, everybody will pitch in for you too.

During the "Soviet period" most ladies carried little folded up plastic or cloth bags in their purses or coat pockets. Just in case a shop had shoes or bread, etc. The Russian name for these bags actually translated roughly in to English as a ?just in case? bag! Given the chronic shortages, not only did they buy for themselves, but they picked up a loaf for Uncle Evgeniy, Aunt Luda, cousin Oksana, etc. And you could be sure that next week if cousin Oksana stumbled across a shop that had flour, she would get some for you too.

This is hard for AM to understand from our "tough love" and self dependent American culture. Over there, they SURVIVE by taking care of each other. Resources are often pooled and shared and she will wonder why you hesitate to participate. It makes her feel as if you are selfish or distrustful.

Success stories understand cultural and language difficulties. My wife can carry on a good English conversation. But I know that sometimes she only understands half of what was said. Just because a person can speak a sentence in a language doesn't mean they UNDERSTAND that sentence. Assumptions are often made, on both sides, which can be damaging. You must practice patience and re-stating important concepts for each other. A lot of ?scams? are simply language or cultural misunderstandings.

Finally, it would be good for a man to research and learn about old European courtship. That is how she grew up thinking romance should be--you spend time first with her family, asking her father for permission to court her (even if she is 30 or plus) and only at the later stages near marriage are you off doing events on your own. American style "dating" which we make the mistake of thinking to be universally understood, is so far removed from her upbringing that it is often the cause for innocent but disastrous misunderstandings.

Agencies compound the problem by arranging "dates." It is so far removed from her culture and makes her feel like a piece of meat being inspected before the cattle auction. She in turn thinks, okay, if I can be treated like that, then I guess it must be normal for me to treat AM the same way. The agencies are to blame for many heartbreaks and disasters over just the simple process of arranging "dates."

Okay, to respond to your observations I'll take each one at a time from your 3 points:

1) Yes, I have a decent grasp but will tell you that when I first went to Russia to live, the 2 short semesters of beginning Russian at a community college left me totally unprepared. It was by God's grace that I had taken my textbooks, workbooks, tapes, and dictionaries with me. I still study Russian every day.

2) My first 3 years living in Russia were formative. As I was only ?second string? for my network, the tenured guy got all the plum political stories and trips. While he wined and dined around Moscow, Kyiv, Odessa and St P, I rode Russian trains and busses on guided government sponsored press tours learning about Uzbek weddings, Ukrainian criminal trials, and navigating knee-deep Spring mud in Siberian oil fields.

During that time I learned to love Russia, her history and her common and ordinary people. Looking back I think I got the better end of the stick?although at the time I often felt underappreciated, especially on important stories when we collaborated together but his name appeared on the byline. Out of necessity I learned how to wear the same clothing for days on end, learned how to bribe the train attendant for a quick shower on a very dirty train, learned not to eat salted fish from the little Kazak grandmothers on the small village train platforms, and learned the two most useful Russian phrases in the universe, which are ?Ne Rah-bow-ta-yit? when something ?doesn?t work? and when nothing gets fixed to mutter in utter frustration and despair ?Eta Ru-cee-ya? (?it?s Russia.?)

3) Surprisingly I?m not wealthy, but very frugal. Fortunately my RW is a decent artist and already owned her apartment so all we pay now are the utilities and try to keep up with taxes?in a system where taxes can change on a whim. I plan flights far in advance, ride economy coach, and buy from Aeroflot ticket consolidators. Until 3 years ago those flights were paid by an employer but even then I tried to keep costs in line out of respect for those who foot the bill.

If you have a wealth of character and an open heart, a genuine RW will follow you thru sickness and health, prosperity and poverty. A genuine lady is interested in you being a genuine man. As one AM friend says, be careful who you attract when over there. Finding a RW is kind of like fishing?what you catch depends on the bait you use.

cooldadman
05-26-2007, 01:00 AM
Seajay, you ask sincere questions and I actually agree with much of what Ham had to say also. I had traveled previously to the region on short jaunts to cover specific stories as mandated by my employer. While it exposed me to Russian (and Ukrainian) life, staying in western style hotels and being surrounded by guides and translators certainly did not give me a handle on what it would be like to live there day to day.

Hotels, especially western style hotels, are a big mistake for guys who seek a RW. Not only does it give the impression that you are wealthy, but it shields you from seeing the real world in which she lives. You need to stay in a normal apartment to understand how her life is lived day by day. That also gives you incredible insight into life in her neighborhood. Often you will discover either wonderful character qualities or uncover serious character flaws just by living (even for a week or so) in her neighborhood. No hotel can give you that experience.

While some agencies are honest and decent folks, most are not. Most are mafia controlled, operated or influenced. The honest ones that I know of are very small. But in the small agency, perhaps there are the ladies who are real and genuine. Usually the smaller town the better. The big cities are full of sharks.

Better to visit out of the way little cities and villages where family values are still cherished and honesty is a way of life. Advantage: most guys only travel to the big cities where it's convenient. Yet, some of the most stunning and beautiful (inside and outside) girls never see an AM because they live off the beaten path. The average AM would be shocked to discover what he could bring home with him if he would get out of the big cities.

Those hot 23 year olds are not really looking for a 48 year old dude. They just aren't, no matter how much garbage is written about the supposedly large age differences. Those age differences cannot be seen in Russian society. And if you bring that young hottie here, her looks and sexy accent will have younger and wealthier men circling like vultures. You won't keep her for long.

Several years ago out of a sincere and heartfelt desire, I converted to Russian Orthodoxy. If you want to see success stories, visit a Russian church in your city.
Most of these success couples just don't have time to brag about their successes...they are busy having babies, maintaining jobs, adjusting to life, etc. But they are definitely here. The heartbreakers are here also...marrying a RW is not a magic pill for happiness.

What does a successful marriage looks like:
1) From observation of other successful marriages, the man has learned at least the basics in Russian. He can tell her that he loves her in the language of her heart. She FEELS it without having to translate it from English to Russian in her mind.)

2) The man has learned enough about her culture to understand how she views the home, intimate family, and extended family relationships. Unfortunately those are largely different than what we experience in American life.

She manages the home and is offended when he has a strong opinion on interior decorations, meal preparations, etc. Success stories include the man learning to appreciate Russian foods. Relax, she will become Americanized before you know it.

She likes it that you have a job, but feels offended when you work late. It reminds her too much of her ex who used to drop off at the bar for hours before coming home to beat her and the kid. In our culture we value overtime and having dinner with a client. In hers, your investment should be in your wife and children.

3) Success stories realize that she needs Russian friends, especially during the crucial early adjustment years. Guys who shield her from others will lose her. If she is genuine, she wants to include you in her new friendships here. She is proud to introduce Russians to her AM. By the way, as a few years go by she will be more choosey about her friends and eventually her circle will include as many AW as RW. It just takes a little time.

4) You can take this one to the bank--if you will accept and love her child, then you will own her heart forever. A RW is taught to be loyal to family and if you include her child in your family, then she will make your marriage her number one priority.

Bringing a childless lady here is a 50-50 crapshoot. Bring a mother here may not be foolproof but gives you a much better chance of success because she will be much more focused on creating a home and family.

5) Understand what extended family means in her culture. The first time I was asked to share some money so that Uncle Mikailovich could repair his car I was waiting to hear when it would be repaid. My wife was offended. In her culture they care for each other as an extended family. If Aunt Lyuba needs $500 to travel to Poland to see her long-lost sister, everyone pitches in. And it is understood that someday when you have a need, everybody will pitch in for you too.

During the "Soviet period" most ladies carried little folded up plastic or cloth bags in their purses or coat pockets. Just in case a shop had shoes or bread, etc. The Russian name for these bags actually translated roughly in to English as a ?just in case? bag! Given the chronic shortages, not only did they buy for themselves, but they picked up a loaf for Uncle Evgeniy, Aunt Luda, cousin Oksana, etc. And you could be sure that next week if cousin Oksana stumbled across a shop that had flour, she would get some for you too.

This is hard for AM to understand from our "tough love" and self dependent American culture. Over there, they SURVIVE by taking care of each other. Resources are often pooled and shared and she will wonder why you hesitate to participate. It makes her feel as if you are selfish or distrustful.

Success stories understand cultural and language difficulties. My wife can carry on a good English conversation. But I know that sometimes she only understands half of what was said. Just because a person can speak a sentence in a language doesn't mean they UNDERSTAND that sentence. Assumptions are often made, on both sides, which can be damaging. You must practice patience and re-stating important concepts for each other. A lot of ?scams? are simply language or cultural misunderstandings.

Finally, it would be good for a man to research and learn about old European courtship. That is how she grew up thinking romance should be--you spend time first with her family, asking her father for permission to court her (even if she is 30 or plus) and only at the later stages near marriage are you off doing events on your own. American style "dating" which we make the mistake of thinking to be universally understood, is so far removed from her upbringing that it is often the cause for innocent but disastrous misunderstandings.

Agencies compound the problem by arranging "dates." It is so far removed from her culture and makes her feel like a piece of meat being inspected before the cattle auction. She in turn thinks, okay, if I can be treated like that, then I guess it must be normal for me to treat AM the same way. The agencies are to blame for many heartbreaks and disasters over just the simple process of arranging "dates."

Okay, to respond to your observations I'll take each one at a time from your 3 points:

1) Yes, I have a decent grasp but will tell you that when I first went to Russia to live, the 2 short semesters of beginning Russian at a community college left me totally unprepared. It was by God's grace that I had taken my textbooks, workbooks, tapes, and dictionaries with me. I still study Russian every day.

2) My first 3 years living in Russia were formative. As I was only ?second string? for my network, the tenured guy got all the plum political stories and trips. While he wined and dined around Moscow, Kyiv, Odessa and St P, I rode Russian trains and busses on guided government sponsored press tours learning about Uzbek weddings, Ukrainian criminal trials, and navigating knee-deep Spring mud in Siberian oil fields.

During that time I learned to love Russia, her history and her common and ordinary people. Looking back I think I got the better end of the stick?although at the time I often felt underappreciated, especially on important stories when we collaborated together but his name appeared on the byline. Out of necessity I learned how to wear the same clothing for days on end, learned how to bribe the train attendant for a quick shower on a very dirty train, learned not to eat salted fish from the little Kazak grandmothers on the small village train platforms, and learned the two most useful Russian phrases in the universe, which are ?Ne Rah-bow-ta-yit? when something ?doesn?t work? and when nothing gets fixed to mutter in utter frustration and despair ?Eta Ru-cee-ya? (?it?s Russia.?)

3) Surprisingly I?m not wealthy, but very frugal. Fortunately my RW is a decent artist and already owned her apartment so all we pay now are the utilities and try to keep up with taxes?in a system where taxes can change on a whim. I plan flights far in advance, ride economy coach, and buy from Aeroflot ticket consolidators. Until 3 years ago those flights were paid by an employer but even then I tried to keep costs in line out of respect for those who foot the bill.

If you have a wealth of character and an open heart, a genuine RW will follow you thru sickness and health, prosperity and poverty. A genuine lady is interested in you being a genuine man. As one AM friend says, be careful who you attract when over there. Finding a RW is kind of like fishing?what you catch depends on the bait you use.

cmiia
05-26-2007, 03:45 AM
[quote]Originally posted by cooldadman

With amusement I read the info about Fort Ross. While we won't settle this debate by screaming at each other on a forum, and I have no time for a pointless debate, there are a couple of places to find serious info: The Center for Columbia River History in Vancouver, Washington and the Oregon History Project at the University of Oregon in Corvallis, OR might be eye-opening for some.


As I have told you I have no intention of travelling to the US. I expected verifiable source material as a reference not some 'Institution' that may or may not have what you claim.


Even more importantly, I think it's high time for the US and Russia to again be allies. And that isn't happening, and not all of that is Russia's fault. Ordinary guys, like you and me, can have an influence in public policy in both countries. Don't you feel it's worth the effort?

I've already told youy I am not American. Nor am I Russian. I have no reason to involve myself in a campaign for strengthening Russo-American relations. If I choose to do so I would not choose to do it on a obscure forum such as this. That much seems pretty obvcious.

Bach, I would have thought you intelligent enough to understand that in today's world the one thing an international journalist values over just about anything else is privacy. You won't find Tom Brokaw (and I am certainly not claiming to be Tom) revealing his identity either. And while I'm not targeted for assissination (well maybe my Russian MIL but that's another story), my family's safety (and there are nuts out there who make threats to any kind of published journalist) is more important to my wife and children than for me to fling it about the world wide web.

It's very easy to make outrageous claims on the internet, my friend.

I for one could claim I've climbed Everest three times, obtained PHDs from Oxford, Cambridge and Sorbonne while saving the lives of millions by curing cancer, AIDS and any other claimed disease.

Being a journalist means expecting your proffesional life to be in the public domain. Any real journalist would appreciate that for his/her work to be recognised and respected it must be as widely distributed as possible. Yet you seem unable or unwilling to produce the extensive material you have published. I have not asked you to reveal private personal information, you just use that as an excuse.




So here is a deal for you: Next time you travel to Moscow let me know. We can meet somewhere public and if I'm convinced you are not a deranged Russian hating idiot, I'll give you a tour. It will include one, or maybe even two popular Russian magazines and a national Russian network. Russian media is pretty closed to the public and via the security processes we will go thru, you'll understand whether or not I'm lying about access to media. You'll need to get me a passport copy and a background check will be done in advance. That part is not for my benefit--it will be a requirement of the people who will grant us such access. Fair enough?


You have descended to farce. It is not I that have to prove anything but you my friend. Spare me the challenges. I have no interest in any of them. As your claims become wilder with each post, so does my disbelief.

cmiia
05-26-2007, 03:45 AM
[quote]Originally posted by cooldadman

With amusement I read the info about Fort Ross. While we won't settle this debate by screaming at each other on a forum, and I have no time for a pointless debate, there are a couple of places to find serious info: The Center for Columbia River History in Vancouver, Washington and the Oregon History Project at the University of Oregon in Corvallis, OR might be eye-opening for some.


As I have told you I have no intention of travelling to the US. I expected verifiable source material as a reference not some 'Institution' that may or may not have what you claim.


Even more importantly, I think it's high time for the US and Russia to again be allies. And that isn't happening, and not all of that is Russia's fault. Ordinary guys, like you and me, can have an influence in public policy in both countries. Don't you feel it's worth the effort?

I've already told youy I am not American. Nor am I Russian. I have no reason to involve myself in a campaign for strengthening Russo-American relations. If I choose to do so I would not choose to do it on a obscure forum such as this. That much seems pretty obvcious.

Bach, I would have thought you intelligent enough to understand that in today's world the one thing an international journalist values over just about anything else is privacy. You won't find Tom Brokaw (and I am certainly not claiming to be Tom) revealing his identity either. And while I'm not targeted for assissination (well maybe my Russian MIL but that's another story), my family's safety (and there are nuts out there who make threats to any kind of published journalist) is more important to my wife and children than for me to fling it about the world wide web.

It's very easy to make outrageous claims on the internet, my friend.

I for one could claim I've climbed Everest three times, obtained PHDs from Oxford, Cambridge and Sorbonne while saving the lives of millions by curing cancer, AIDS and any other claimed disease.

Being a journalist means expecting your proffesional life to be in the public domain. Any real journalist would appreciate that for his/her work to be recognised and respected it must be as widely distributed as possible. Yet you seem unable or unwilling to produce the extensive material you have published. I have not asked you to reveal private personal information, you just use that as an excuse.




So here is a deal for you: Next time you travel to Moscow let me know. We can meet somewhere public and if I'm convinced you are not a deranged Russian hating idiot, I'll give you a tour. It will include one, or maybe even two popular Russian magazines and a national Russian network. Russian media is pretty closed to the public and via the security processes we will go thru, you'll understand whether or not I'm lying about access to media. You'll need to get me a passport copy and a background check will be done in advance. That part is not for my benefit--it will be a requirement of the people who will grant us such access. Fair enough?


You have descended to farce. It is not I that have to prove anything but you my friend. Spare me the challenges. I have no interest in any of them. As your claims become wilder with each post, so does my disbelief.

ham
05-26-2007, 05:12 AM
quote:Being a journalist means expecting your proffesional life to be in the public domain. Any real journalist would appreciate that for his/her work to be recognised and respected it must be as widely distributed as possible. Yet you seem unable or unwilling to produce the extensive material you have published. I have not asked you to reveal private personal information, you just use that as an excuse.

well, yes.
If you are a journalist and published materials:
1 you did under your real name, so you're not safe from terrorists etc. Hardly a problem if you don't go seek trouble yourself.
2 you did under a pen name. Some do so. You are then safer from terrorists etc.
In both case your work was read by many in published form, so i really see no point in not sharing it here, since you stated you are here in pursuit of professional research.


quote:3) Success stories realize that she needs Russian friends, especially during the crucial early adjustment years. Guys who shield her from others will lose her. If she is genuine, she wants to include you in her new friendships here. She is proud to introduce Russians to her AM. By the way, as a few years go by she will be more choosey about her friends and eventually her circle will include as many AW as RW. It just takes a little time.

i read countless insuccess stories complaining about the devil's role played by "russian friends in the west". If a woman is already on the bitter and mercenary side, other "emancipated" FSUWs will boost her arrogance and expectations to the point of no return. If she is modest and caring, she will probably "catch up" and "realize" she's being "used" and no matter what, she can refuse her man sex, have affairs, while being equally entitled to taking him to the cleaners. More than once FSUW forum offered such ill advice.


quote:5) Understand what extended family means in her culture. The first time I was asked to share some money so that Uncle Mikailovich could repair his car I was waiting to hear when it would be repaid. My wife was offended. In her culture they care for each other as an extended family. If Aunt Lyuba needs $500 to travel to Poland to see her long-lost sister, everyone pitches in. And it is understood that someday when you have a need, everybody will pitch in for you too.

I'll remove the rose tinted glasses and say that this behaviour -common to most MOBs of all nationalities - is the rule not because of strange clan or fetish rules, but because she is the one among 188 people in her extended family who trapped a foreigner, which means the pot of gold in her life. The pot of gold might be small to microscopic, but this is how they see the deal. I know non-MOBs from Cuba & other places who soon were importing grandmothers, unemployed cousins, crippled half-brothers etc...to the expenses of the western sucker they had trapped. Anyways, something i must avoid at all costs.


quote:Finally, it would be good for a man to research and learn about old European courtship. That is how she grew up thinking romance should be--you spend time first with her family, asking her father for permission to court her (even if she is 30 or plus) and only at the later stages near marriage are you off doing events on your own. American style "dating" which we make the mistake of thinking to be universally understood, is so far removed from her upbringing that it is often the cause for innocent but disastrous misunderstandings.

perhaps small village girls in the woods.
city girls - and city hasn't to be just Kiev or Moscow - are moreless like western girls. The 1970-80s are long gone.
And i was one who strongly believed in old fashioned courtship, but then i realized women treated/saw me as a deluded buffoon; very painful, but i learnt my lesson.


quote:I am another "success story." But I dare not to speak of it,

yes, you wanted to bail out of the FSU and you got a chance. You also got a chance to start a business in the west and all the rest. Hardly chances you could have while in the FSU. You are highly goal-oriented and pragmatic. You said you don't believe in love and were not seeking love...so what were you seeking in a man who'll be probably disabled or senescent or impotent decades before YOU do? Oh, yes...sex doesn't matter and you love changing diapers...please...what did it matter then? Bailing out?
I'm not putting him down: that's how life is, unless my father & other elderly men i know are bad specimens. But age difference between my parents is 1 year.


quote:So I say, good for cooldadman. Just don't throw your shoulder out of joint slapping yourself on the back. For every one of you, there are fifty of us.

unfortunately, perhaps more than 50:1.

ham
05-26-2007, 05:12 AM
quote:Being a journalist means expecting your proffesional life to be in the public domain. Any real journalist would appreciate that for his/her work to be recognised and respected it must be as widely distributed as possible. Yet you seem unable or unwilling to produce the extensive material you have published. I have not asked you to reveal private personal information, you just use that as an excuse.

well, yes.
If you are a journalist and published materials:
1 you did under your real name, so you're not safe from terrorists etc. Hardly a problem if you don't go seek trouble yourself.
2 you did under a pen name. Some do so. You are then safer from terrorists etc.
In both case your work was read by many in published form, so i really see no point in not sharing it here, since you stated you are here in pursuit of professional research.


quote:3) Success stories realize that she needs Russian friends, especially during the crucial early adjustment years. Guys who shield her from others will lose her. If she is genuine, she wants to include you in her new friendships here. She is proud to introduce Russians to her AM. By the way, as a few years go by she will be more choosey about her friends and eventually her circle will include as many AW as RW. It just takes a little time.

i read countless insuccess stories complaining about the devil's role played by "russian friends in the west". If a woman is already on the bitter and mercenary side, other "emancipated" FSUWs will boost her arrogance and expectations to the point of no return. If she is modest and caring, she will probably "catch up" and "realize" she's being "used" and no matter what, she can refuse her man sex, have affairs, while being equally entitled to taking him to the cleaners. More than once FSUW forum offered such ill advice.


quote:5) Understand what extended family means in her culture. The first time I was asked to share some money so that Uncle Mikailovich could repair his car I was waiting to hear when it would be repaid. My wife was offended. In her culture they care for each other as an extended family. If Aunt Lyuba needs $500 to travel to Poland to see her long-lost sister, everyone pitches in. And it is understood that someday when you have a need, everybody will pitch in for you too.

I'll remove the rose tinted glasses and say that this behaviour -common to most MOBs of all nationalities - is the rule not because of strange clan or fetish rules, but because she is the one among 188 people in her extended family who trapped a foreigner, which means the pot of gold in her life. The pot of gold might be small to microscopic, but this is how they see the deal. I know non-MOBs from Cuba & other places who soon were importing grandmothers, unemployed cousins, crippled half-brothers etc...to the expenses of the western sucker they had trapped. Anyways, something i must avoid at all costs.


quote:Finally, it would be good for a man to research and learn about old European courtship. That is how she grew up thinking romance should be--you spend time first with her family, asking her father for permission to court her (even if she is 30 or plus) and only at the later stages near marriage are you off doing events on your own. American style "dating" which we make the mistake of thinking to be universally understood, is so far removed from her upbringing that it is often the cause for innocent but disastrous misunderstandings.

perhaps small village girls in the woods.
city girls - and city hasn't to be just Kiev or Moscow - are moreless like western girls. The 1970-80s are long gone.
And i was one who strongly believed in old fashioned courtship, but then i realized women treated/saw me as a deluded buffoon; very painful, but i learnt my lesson.


quote:I am another "success story." But I dare not to speak of it,

yes, you wanted to bail out of the FSU and you got a chance. You also got a chance to start a business in the west and all the rest. Hardly chances you could have while in the FSU. You are highly goal-oriented and pragmatic. You said you don't believe in love and were not seeking love...so what were you seeking in a man who'll be probably disabled or senescent or impotent decades before YOU do? Oh, yes...sex doesn't matter and you love changing diapers...please...what did it matter then? Bailing out?
I'm not putting him down: that's how life is, unless my father & other elderly men i know are bad specimens. But age difference between my parents is 1 year.


quote:So I say, good for cooldadman. Just don't throw your shoulder out of joint slapping yourself on the back. For every one of you, there are fifty of us.

unfortunately, perhaps more than 50:1.

cooldadman
05-26-2007, 07:17 AM
Ham, Re: extended family. I have no doubt that you have examples of why you feel a RW feels she has trapped her man and now wants to bring all the grandmas over. While I've not seen this personally, the sheer numbers of international marriages would dictate what you say to be true to some extent.

But it certainly isn't universal. My MIL would not come here to live if I paid her. She is comfortable spending the rest of her days in Russia and that is fine.

The Russian Orthodox church I attend in the USA is about 25% international marriages. We are pretty close to these families and I know of not a single case where there are plans to bring over someone else other than for a periodic visit.

Regardless of the myths, Russian people love their country and enjoy life amongst their families and friends. Not that such things don't happen, but apparently nowhere near the scale you seem to imagine.

My biggest challenge is convincing my wife that there is a good reason to continue living in the USA. If it weren't for my two daughters here, I know she would pressure me to be an expat and live there full time. Her business there is thriving and it is only the close relationship she enjoys with my daughters that keeps the issue in check. I meet a lot of AM who live in the FSU with their RW/UW, especially Ukraine where the cost of living has been a lot lower.

I don't mean to argue with you on the issue, but making a universal blanket statement that all RW are looking for a sugar daddy is simply untrue. I'm sorry that you had a bad experience, but just because you did doesn't not mean that all international marriages are doomed. Many work. A lot more than you seem to be willing to admit.

cooldadman
05-26-2007, 07:17 AM
Ham, Re: extended family. I have no doubt that you have examples of why you feel a RW feels she has trapped her man and now wants to bring all the grandmas over. While I've not seen this personally, the sheer numbers of international marriages would dictate what you say to be true to some extent.

But it certainly isn't universal. My MIL would not come here to live if I paid her. She is comfortable spending the rest of her days in Russia and that is fine.

The Russian Orthodox church I attend in the USA is about 25% international marriages. We are pretty close to these families and I know of not a single case where there are plans to bring over someone else other than for a periodic visit.

Regardless of the myths, Russian people love their country and enjoy life amongst their families and friends. Not that such things don't happen, but apparently nowhere near the scale you seem to imagine.

My biggest challenge is convincing my wife that there is a good reason to continue living in the USA. If it weren't for my two daughters here, I know she would pressure me to be an expat and live there full time. Her business there is thriving and it is only the close relationship she enjoys with my daughters that keeps the issue in check. I meet a lot of AM who live in the FSU with their RW/UW, especially Ukraine where the cost of living has been a lot lower.

I don't mean to argue with you on the issue, but making a universal blanket statement that all RW are looking for a sugar daddy is simply untrue. I'm sorry that you had a bad experience, but just because you did doesn't not mean that all international marriages are doomed. Many work. A lot more than you seem to be willing to admit.

ham
05-26-2007, 08:00 AM
i live in a small village.
here a few men married "exotic" women: a few from Cuba; a couple from Brazil.
There are a couple cases in this stupid village of wealthy men taken to the cleaners by exotic women and ending up in a trailer, but i'm NOT talking about those.
I'm talking about "still married" people.
Well, [u]A L L</u> of them have this in common: the exotic woman (not MOBs) brought over her sister(s), cousins, parents or the like: all of them imported AT LEAST ONE RELATIVE, at the expenses of the western sucker.


quote:but making a universal blanket statement that all RW are looking for a sugar daddy is simply untrue. I'm sorry that you had a bad experience, but just because you did doesn't not mean that all international marriages are doomed. Many work. A lot more than you seem to be willing to admit.

i never said "all" because i have no way of knowing, neither you do.
All i can say is that MOST either won't work or will undergo major stress and struggle...and if the man is average Joe and cannot "give the squeaky wheel grease " on a regular basis in the form of money, imported relatives, fancy vacations, trips back home five times a year, hiring domestic helpers, whatever, T H E N there is trouble.
There are no third party studies about the success rate of MOB marriages. INS studies claimed they stand no better chance than domestic ones; comparing western & FSU divorce rates, one might agree.
A few uncredited, undocumented studies circulate, some claiming the failure rate goes as up as 80%, while some claim the opposite.
This said, even booming success rates might just be "in one's imagination".
Everyone might tend to universalize his own experience, but there is more to "grim predictions" than a few "angry bitter losers" spouting doom&gloom over the internet.
For example, many western embassies now make a point out of forewarning their citizens about MOB/romance scams: they wouldn't if the problem weren't alarming.
I followed the day to day drama of the chase of a meek middle aged decent man (or so he sounded).
His first row ended with him being taken for a ride by a young hottie (a good-time-girl); later he met & married a much older woman. Last time he posted, he was undergoing counselling because his marriage was going down the drain.

ham
05-26-2007, 08:00 AM
i live in a small village.
here a few men married "exotic" women: a few from Cuba; a couple from Brazil.
There are a couple cases in this stupid village of wealthy men taken to the cleaners by exotic women and ending up in a trailer, but i'm NOT talking about those.
I'm talking about "still married" people.
Well, [u]A L L</u> of them have this in common: the exotic woman (not MOBs) brought over her sister(s), cousins, parents or the like: all of them imported AT LEAST ONE RELATIVE, at the expenses of the western sucker.


quote:but making a universal blanket statement that all RW are looking for a sugar daddy is simply untrue. I'm sorry that you had a bad experience, but just because you did doesn't not mean that all international marriages are doomed. Many work. A lot more than you seem to be willing to admit.

i never said "all" because i have no way of knowing, neither you do.
All i can say is that MOST either won't work or will undergo major stress and struggle...and if the man is average Joe and cannot "give the squeaky wheel grease " on a regular basis in the form of money, imported relatives, fancy vacations, trips back home five times a year, hiring domestic helpers, whatever, T H E N there is trouble.
There are no third party studies about the success rate of MOB marriages. INS studies claimed they stand no better chance than domestic ones; comparing western & FSU divorce rates, one might agree.
A few uncredited, undocumented studies circulate, some claiming the failure rate goes as up as 80%, while some claim the opposite.
This said, even booming success rates might just be "in one's imagination".
Everyone might tend to universalize his own experience, but there is more to "grim predictions" than a few "angry bitter losers" spouting doom&gloom over the internet.
For example, many western embassies now make a point out of forewarning their citizens about MOB/romance scams: they wouldn't if the problem weren't alarming.
I followed the day to day drama of the chase of a meek middle aged decent man (or so he sounded).
His first row ended with him being taken for a ride by a young hottie (a good-time-girl); later he met & married a much older woman. Last time he posted, he was undergoing counselling because his marriage was going down the drain.

Amerikanski
05-26-2007, 12:26 PM
Re: extended family. I have no doubt that you have examples of why you feel a RW feels she has trapped her man and now wants to bring all the grandmas over. While I've not seen this personally...

Every last one of the FSU wives in my extended circle have brought over extended family.

Julija from St. Petersburg, father and mother...
Okasana from Yoshkar-Ola, mother and daughter from prior relationship...
Kristina from Riga, mother and grandmother...
Olga from Yekaterinburg, son with MS in wheelchair...
Vasilisa from Kiev, mother...
Anna from St. Petersburg, mother...

The AM's in each of these relationships provide 100% support for the extended family members (with exception noted below), and some also send remittances home. They also pay for legal fees associated with INS difficulties. The lone exception is Olga, who took a job on the west coast where she lives in a hotel with her male boss. Her 60 y.o. AM takes care of the disabled child in her absence. She returns every other weekend.

These six FSU women together accounted for an additional nine FSU immigrants.

If you ask any of these 15 people if life is better in America or the FSU, they will all tell you that life is better in the FSU. I have sat at parties and gatherings and listened to the FSU crowd explain in all sincerity that America sucks in every way possible. Which really begs the question. If you hate it here so much, why don't you just go back home?

Amerikanski
05-26-2007, 12:26 PM
Re: extended family. I have no doubt that you have examples of why you feel a RW feels she has trapped her man and now wants to bring all the grandmas over. While I've not seen this personally...

Every last one of the FSU wives in my extended circle have brought over extended family.

Julija from St. Petersburg, father and mother...
Okasana from Yoshkar-Ola, mother and daughter from prior relationship...
Kristina from Riga, mother and grandmother...
Olga from Yekaterinburg, son with MS in wheelchair...
Vasilisa from Kiev, mother...
Anna from St. Petersburg, mother...

The AM's in each of these relationships provide 100% support for the extended family members (with exception noted below), and some also send remittances home. They also pay for legal fees associated with INS difficulties. The lone exception is Olga, who took a job on the west coast where she lives in a hotel with her male boss. Her 60 y.o. AM takes care of the disabled child in her absence. She returns every other weekend.

These six FSU women together accounted for an additional nine FSU immigrants.

If you ask any of these 15 people if life is better in America or the FSU, they will all tell you that life is better in the FSU. I have sat at parties and gatherings and listened to the FSU crowd explain in all sincerity that America sucks in every way possible. Which really begs the question. If you hate it here so much, why don't you just go back home?

ham
05-26-2007, 01:17 PM
Since the "extended family" thing is off topic, i opened another thread.

ham
05-26-2007, 01:17 PM
Since the "extended family" thing is off topic, i opened another thread.

elenag
05-26-2007, 09:48 PM
quote:Originally posted by ham




quote:3) Success stories realize that she needs Russian friends, especially during the crucial early adjustment years. Guys who shield her from others will lose her. If she is genuine, she wants to include you in her new friendships here. She is proud to introduce Russians to her AM. By the way, as a few years go by she will be more choosey about her friends and eventually her circle will include as many AW as RW. It just takes a little time.

i read countless insuccess stories complaining about the devil's role played by "russian friends in the west". If a woman is already on the bitter and mercenary side, other "emancipated" FSUWs will boost her arrogance and expectations to the point of no return. If she is modest and caring, she will probably "catch up" and "realize" she's being "used" and no matter what, she can refuse her man sex, have affairs, while being equally entitled to taking him to the cleaners. More than once FSUW forum offered such ill advice.
Ham and I don't agree often, but this time I am with Ham. I would NOT suggest getting her Russian friends for the sake of getting her Russian friends. My advice would be to get to know other Russian-American couples whom you personally know and whom you are personally friends with, and introduce them to your RW, but avoid recently divorced or divorced and re-married (while in the US) RWs, or RWs whose husbands do not look particularly happy with the marriage. On top of that, make sure that you also introduce her to AM-AW couples, so she could observe their interraction for additional source of "food for thoughts". Her education needs to be spread-out as much as possible, and not concentrated on the AM-RW couples, or, worse, coming from recently divorced or divorce-in-progress ladies.

She will go through alot of adjustment and the Russian friends will be the first ones she would turn to for an advice (and not you), and the quality of the friends will determine the quality of the advice. Women can be very jealous of each other's happiness, money, etc, and will sabotage each other's relationship in a heartbeat just to justify their own failed relations if nothing else, and you should keep that in mind. If her friends avoid you, or she is a different person with them than she use to be with you - better start paying attention and preparing for any unpleasant surpise. Your marriage could be in a little trouble, or a very big trouble. Either way, stop hoping for the best and get proactive with getting advice from me or other experienced members of RW-AM forums on how to best handle the situation. Things can turn very serious very quickly.




quote:Originally posted by ham
yes, you wanted to bail out of the FSU and you got a chance. You also got a chance to start a business in the west and all the rest. Hardly chances you could have while in the FSU. You are highly goal-oriented and pragmatic. You said you don't believe in love and were not seeking love...so what were you seeking in a man who'll be probably disabled or senescent or impotent decades before YOU do? Oh, yes...sex doesn't matter and you love changing diapers...please...what did it matter then? Bailing out?
I'm not putting him down: that's how life is, unless my father & other elderly men i know are bad specimens. But age difference between my parents is 1 year.

I am soooo done with the aqe difference subject.

Anyways, I am another one of the good stories, but we won't go into it, not like it matters, really. All RWs whom I personally know are happily married to their AMs (and not one if them is bringing any relatives here that I would be aware off), so from my personal experience the ratio is the reverse: 50 to 1 of happy to unhappy. However, from my work experice, the ratio is what Ham and the rest are pointing out. So, go figure...

In either case, except for children, I have never seen RWs who got here on marriage or fiancee visas trying to bring other relatives here. I personally don't plan to bring mine because I am the provider for them and it is much cheaper to feed and clothe them when they are in Russia than here. Plus, I don;t want them to have any impact on my marital relations that I cannot easily control.

People who got here on work visas and want to bring more "workers" here may be more prone to the behavior Ham sees with the Latino ladies. I do not know much about the Latino gals, so I cannot elaborate on the reasons for differences in behavior.

elenag
05-26-2007, 09:48 PM
quote:Originally posted by ham




quote:3) Success stories realize that she needs Russian friends, especially during the crucial early adjustment years. Guys who shield her from others will lose her. If she is genuine, she wants to include you in her new friendships here. She is proud to introduce Russians to her AM. By the way, as a few years go by she will be more choosey about her friends and eventually her circle will include as many AW as RW. It just takes a little time.

i read countless insuccess stories complaining about the devil's role played by "russian friends in the west". If a woman is already on the bitter and mercenary side, other "emancipated" FSUWs will boost her arrogance and expectations to the point of no return. If she is modest and caring, she will probably "catch up" and "realize" she's being "used" and no matter what, she can refuse her man sex, have affairs, while being equally entitled to taking him to the cleaners. More than once FSUW forum offered such ill advice.
Ham and I don't agree often, but this time I am with Ham. I would NOT suggest getting her Russian friends for the sake of getting her Russian friends. My advice would be to get to know other Russian-American couples whom you personally know and whom you are personally friends with, and introduce them to your RW, but avoid recently divorced or divorced and re-married (while in the US) RWs, or RWs whose husbands do not look particularly happy with the marriage. On top of that, make sure that you also introduce her to AM-AW couples, so she could observe their interraction for additional source of "food for thoughts". Her education needs to be spread-out as much as possible, and not concentrated on the AM-RW couples, or, worse, coming from recently divorced or divorce-in-progress ladies.

She will go through alot of adjustment and the Russian friends will be the first ones she would turn to for an advice (and not you), and the quality of the friends will determine the quality of the advice. Women can be very jealous of each other's happiness, money, etc, and will sabotage each other's relationship in a heartbeat just to justify their own failed relations if nothing else, and you should keep that in mind. If her friends avoid you, or she is a different person with them than she use to be with you - better start paying attention and preparing for any unpleasant surpise. Your marriage could be in a little trouble, or a very big trouble. Either way, stop hoping for the best and get proactive with getting advice from me or other experienced members of RW-AM forums on how to best handle the situation. Things can turn very serious very quickly.




quote:Originally posted by ham
yes, you wanted to bail out of the FSU and you got a chance. You also got a chance to start a business in the west and all the rest. Hardly chances you could have while in the FSU. You are highly goal-oriented and pragmatic. You said you don't believe in love and were not seeking love...so what were you seeking in a man who'll be probably disabled or senescent or impotent decades before YOU do? Oh, yes...sex doesn't matter and you love changing diapers...please...what did it matter then? Bailing out?
I'm not putting him down: that's how life is, unless my father & other elderly men i know are bad specimens. But age difference between my parents is 1 year.

I am soooo done with the aqe difference subject.

Anyways, I am another one of the good stories, but we won't go into it, not like it matters, really. All RWs whom I personally know are happily married to their AMs (and not one if them is bringing any relatives here that I would be aware off), so from my personal experience the ratio is the reverse: 50 to 1 of happy to unhappy. However, from my work experice, the ratio is what Ham and the rest are pointing out. So, go figure...

In either case, except for children, I have never seen RWs who got here on marriage or fiancee visas trying to bring other relatives here. I personally don't plan to bring mine because I am the provider for them and it is much cheaper to feed and clothe them when they are in Russia than here. Plus, I don;t want them to have any impact on my marital relations that I cannot easily control.

People who got here on work visas and want to bring more "workers" here may be more prone to the behavior Ham sees with the Latino ladies. I do not know much about the Latino gals, so I cannot elaborate on the reasons for differences in behavior.

cooldadman
05-27-2007, 01:49 AM
Elena, my wife would agree with you 100%. She divides Russians here into "good Russians" and "bad Russians." Although we are both outgoing and friendly, she is more reserved when meeting someone new in the RU/Ukr community until she knows them better.

cooldadman
05-27-2007, 01:49 AM
Elena, my wife would agree with you 100%. She divides Russians here into "good Russians" and "bad Russians." Although we are both outgoing and friendly, she is more reserved when meeting someone new in the RU/Ukr community until she knows them better.

cooldadman
05-27-2007, 02:10 AM
One more note to Seajay in response to earlier question:

In my particular case I had already converted to Orthodoxy out of religious conviction. Seeing in the FSU that there were two kinds of Orthodox, the "Easter and Christmas" believer and the person who practiced their faith all year long, I only considered the practicing Orthodox girls for a future wife.

If it was important to me to be Orthodox, then it made sense to find a wife who felt the same way. As a nice side effect, this assured me of someone who had strong morals, understood marriage to be a sacred sacrament, and who believed that divorce has spiritual consquences as well.

If I were to seek a wife again, God forbid, I would take the same route again. I just can't imagine scammers covering their heads in church on Sunday, bowing before Icons, and standing thru a 3 hour liturgy before going back to their scam business. And the Orthodox faith works hard to instill respect, humility, and frugality in living. All those things can be in a genuine guys favour...even if he isn't Orthodox.

An Orthodox service is very different from a typical American church experience, but even so you can get a glimpse of some of the most lovely ladies in a church on Sunday. Demographers say there is a "spiritual awakening" (their term) going on today in the region and there are available single ladies to pick from out of this pool.

Of course there are wonderful RW who don't practice their faith, and I do not judge them. But in this kind of adventure where men don't often understand the culture, language and pitfalls, every little advantage helps.

cooldadman
05-27-2007, 02:10 AM
One more note to Seajay in response to earlier question:

In my particular case I had already converted to Orthodoxy out of religious conviction. Seeing in the FSU that there were two kinds of Orthodox, the "Easter and Christmas" believer and the person who practiced their faith all year long, I only considered the practicing Orthodox girls for a future wife.

If it was important to me to be Orthodox, then it made sense to find a wife who felt the same way. As a nice side effect, this assured me of someone who had strong morals, understood marriage to be a sacred sacrament, and who believed that divorce has spiritual consquences as well.

If I were to seek a wife again, God forbid, I would take the same route again. I just can't imagine scammers covering their heads in church on Sunday, bowing before Icons, and standing thru a 3 hour liturgy before going back to their scam business. And the Orthodox faith works hard to instill respect, humility, and frugality in living. All those things can be in a genuine guys favour...even if he isn't Orthodox.

An Orthodox service is very different from a typical American church experience, but even so you can get a glimpse of some of the most lovely ladies in a church on Sunday. Demographers say there is a "spiritual awakening" (their term) going on today in the region and there are available single ladies to pick from out of this pool.

Of course there are wonderful RW who don't practice their faith, and I do not judge them. But in this kind of adventure where men don't often understand the culture, language and pitfalls, every little advantage helps.

cmiia
05-27-2007, 03:33 AM
[quote]Originally posted by cooldadman

My biggest challenge is convincing my wife that there is a good reason to continue living in the USA. If it weren't for my two daughters here, I know she would pressure me to be an expat and live there full time.


Well, being in a stable, meaningful relationship entails co-operation and communication on a daily basis from the mundane to the life changing.

Compromise needs to be present also. Seems to me this could be sorely lacking if your wife feels she has to pressure you into making a decision she chooses over your wishes. It seems your daughters even have priority over your wishes.

Not good in my book.

cmiia
05-27-2007, 03:33 AM
[quote]Originally posted by cooldadman

My biggest challenge is convincing my wife that there is a good reason to continue living in the USA. If it weren't for my two daughters here, I know she would pressure me to be an expat and live there full time.


Well, being in a stable, meaningful relationship entails co-operation and communication on a daily basis from the mundane to the life changing.

Compromise needs to be present also. Seems to me this could be sorely lacking if your wife feels she has to pressure you into making a decision she chooses over your wishes. It seems your daughters even have priority over your wishes.

Not good in my book.

ham
05-27-2007, 04:57 AM
quote:If I were to seek a wife again, God forbid, I would take the same route again. I just can't imagine scammers covering their heads in church on Sunday, bowing before Icons, and standing thru a 3 hour liturgy before going back to their scam business. And the Orthodox faith works hard to instill respect, humility, and frugality in living. All those things can be in a genuine guys favour...even if he isn't Orthodox.

one among the biggest conmen and fraudsters i know is a deacon in some "born again" sect.
Christianity can and often will be seen as cheap soap: the bigger the sin, the bigger forgiveness will be (told to me by another scoundrel turned religious zealot ).

ham
05-27-2007, 04:57 AM
quote:If I were to seek a wife again, God forbid, I would take the same route again. I just can't imagine scammers covering their heads in church on Sunday, bowing before Icons, and standing thru a 3 hour liturgy before going back to their scam business. And the Orthodox faith works hard to instill respect, humility, and frugality in living. All those things can be in a genuine guys favour...even if he isn't Orthodox.

one among the biggest conmen and fraudsters i know is a deacon in some "born again" sect.
Christianity can and often will be seen as cheap soap: the bigger the sin, the bigger forgiveness will be (told to me by another scoundrel turned religious zealot ).

cooldadman
05-27-2007, 05:39 AM
Ham, a lot of harm can be done in the name of religion. So can a lot of harm be done in suppressing free expression of sincere faith. That is why its a personal decision. In my understanding the deacon you reference will spend just as much time in hell as the "sinner" down the street.

Sincere and genuine faith, while never perfect, should lead to living with others in respect and justice. The good book defines the difference between true religion and bad, saying that true religion leads men to walk humbly with each other and caring for the sick, the widow and the fatherless.

Unfortunately there are those, as you point out, who try to use religion as a cover for their own failings. Fortunately, God isn't stupid and promises to judge their behaviour.

Belief in a sincere and genuine religious expression does not make all it's adherents weak or inferior. In many cases it makes them strong.

cooldadman
05-27-2007, 05:39 AM
Ham, a lot of harm can be done in the name of religion. So can a lot of harm be done in suppressing free expression of sincere faith. That is why its a personal decision. In my understanding the deacon you reference will spend just as much time in hell as the "sinner" down the street.

Sincere and genuine faith, while never perfect, should lead to living with others in respect and justice. The good book defines the difference between true religion and bad, saying that true religion leads men to walk humbly with each other and caring for the sick, the widow and the fatherless.

Unfortunately there are those, as you point out, who try to use religion as a cover for their own failings. Fortunately, God isn't stupid and promises to judge their behaviour.

Belief in a sincere and genuine religious expression does not make all it's adherents weak or inferior. In many cases it makes them strong.

cooldadman
05-27-2007, 06:00 AM
Bach, your points are well taken. Thank you.

cooldadman
05-27-2007, 06:00 AM
Bach, your points are well taken. Thank you.

ham
05-27-2007, 08:00 AM
quote:Unfortunately there are those, as you point out, who try to use religion as a cover for their own failings. Fortunately, God isn't stupid and promises to judge their behaviour.

i didn't want to debate beliefs or private choices.
I wanted to address your point about (seemingly) churches or churchgoers being "better" people to meet.
This point is often being made, but it is a gross oversimplification in my opinion.

ham
05-27-2007, 08:00 AM
quote:Unfortunately there are those, as you point out, who try to use religion as a cover for their own failings. Fortunately, God isn't stupid and promises to judge their behaviour.

i didn't want to debate beliefs or private choices.
I wanted to address your point about (seemingly) churches or churchgoers being "better" people to meet.
This point is often being made, but it is a gross oversimplification in my opinion.

ham
05-27-2007, 10:01 AM
quote:I am soooo done with the aqe difference subject.

Anyways, I am another one of the good stories, but we won't go into it, not like it matters, really.


quote:A few quotes from some russian woman here who officially disagrees, which prove my point:
http://www.stop-scammers.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=351..

quote:I was glad to bail out of Russia. I didn't plan for it to happen that way, but it happened, and I am glad. I never said I loved my husband. I was never looking for a love in the first place. I never said my friends love their husband. I don't think they (my friends) were looking for love either. Their husbands may have been looking for love, but I think they were glad to settle in with their Russian girlfriends, love or not love. We all were looking to GET MARRIED. Start a family. Not be lonely. Have someone to share a life with.

quote: When I was writing to my future hubby, I didn't have any regular job or any education.


quote:I wanted a marriage that would last. So I decided to never marry anyone I am actually in love with.



and

quote:My hubby would send me money for English lessons, and some extra to make sure I can do some fun stuff (like eating pizzas, buying some clothes, going to concerts, or going to Moscow to visit my friends there from time to time), plus for the bus pass :), and when I lost my access to free Internet he sent me a laptop (that he bought here and shipped to me by FedEx), he really took care of me and that is the reason why I dumped 100 other guys writing to me and decided to go serious with him. The other guys behaved like weak, indecisive, unreliable people. I said to myself, "I need a man, not a chicken. He is the only one who seems to care enough about me to take care of my needs".



quote:I have been happiliy married to an American for the last 5 years. He paid for my visa, trip to Moscow (to get it), for my tickets (and even extra for some nice things to do while my last few days in Russia), and had given me probably over $1000 in monthly support for months while the paperwork was processed.




there is a discussion elsewhere rather honest (for once) as the above words are.
So why does a man settle with a girl who doesn't love him? Because he got young meat and arm candy and it's all that matters. A deluded man in a 40yo age gap relationship reluctantly admitted age might represent a problem in the future...and he will deal with it when it becomes a problem. Hmm...yes, i can clearly picture him in his 70s, broke, heartbroken, shaking in despair while senescence takes over.

Why do young (hot) girls settle for old geezers? As statistics and hearsay show, Elena might indeed have had 100 (more likely a much lower number) men writing her, but she stood grim chances of ever seeing any of them ( some consensus claims only around 5% of men involved in the MOB process will visit the FSU ) to start with. Among the very feeble number of prospects who might actually visit her, Elena assuredly had no hunk in his 30s.
Common sense: weed out the perpetually undecided, keyboard romeos, players, braggarts misrepresenting themselves and many men with serious personality flaws and you are left with one half of one tenth.
There are wealthy "new russians" riding fancy import cars and living in tzarist era mansions...but they are all taken, or there is a long queue of aspiring beauty queens competing for their favors; so Elena's chances there were even much grimmer.
Elena might have picked some ordinary Oleg or Igor; she may indeeed have had relationships with those, but come think of it, none would ever afford her the western dream, as small as she might imagine her pot of gold to be.
So -as the discussion elsewhere candidly admitted- most of these young cute FSUWs are left with "us western losers, social misfits, old geezers and the like".


quote:I personally don't plan to bring mine because I am the provider for them and it is much cheaper to feed and clothe them when they are in Russia than here.

Very honest. So young cute Elena wanted to do something for her aging parents, besides herself. As seen above, she hadn't 77 choices equally allowing her to fulfill her wishes.

The discussion equally pointed out that one's typical FSUW isn't genetically engineered to like men old enough to be her (grand)father, opposed to western women. Woman are women: from another country, not another planet.

So Elena is very pragmatic, goal-oriented, level-headed and all. She's like drafting a business report, not a love ballad; love is for the poets. As much as i agree with the "love is for the poets" thing, i cannot but wonder at how far anyone's (in Elena's position ) level-headed pragmatism can/will reach.
I wanted to play the romantic chivalron and got (mis)treated like a deluded buffoon, so that is not the good answer, either.
One day she might just miss the "spark", or she might just elope in savage outbursts of passion in a bathroom with some young hunk at school...
After all, pragmatism is not a waffen SS plea of allegiance, but "situational ethics"...what is the best choice here and now might not be the best choice tomorrow and then.

ham
05-27-2007, 10:01 AM
quote:I am soooo done with the aqe difference subject.

Anyways, I am another one of the good stories, but we won't go into it, not like it matters, really.


quote:A few quotes from some russian woman here who officially disagrees, which prove my point:
http://www.stop-scammers.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=351..

quote:I was glad to bail out of Russia. I didn't plan for it to happen that way, but it happened, and I am glad. I never said I loved my husband. I was never looking for a love in the first place. I never said my friends love their husband. I don't think they (my friends) were looking for love either. Their husbands may have been looking for love, but I think they were glad to settle in with their Russian girlfriends, love or not love. We all were looking to GET MARRIED. Start a family. Not be lonely. Have someone to share a life with.

quote: When I was writing to my future hubby, I didn't have any regular job or any education.


quote:I wanted a marriage that would last. So I decided to never marry anyone I am actually in love with.



and

quote:My hubby would send me money for English lessons, and some extra to make sure I can do some fun stuff (like eating pizzas, buying some clothes, going to concerts, or going to Moscow to visit my friends there from time to time), plus for the bus pass :), and when I lost my access to free Internet he sent me a laptop (that he bought here and shipped to me by FedEx), he really took care of me and that is the reason why I dumped 100 other guys writing to me and decided to go serious with him. The other guys behaved like weak, indecisive, unreliable people. I said to myself, "I need a man, not a chicken. He is the only one who seems to care enough about me to take care of my needs".



quote:I have been happiliy married to an American for the last 5 years. He paid for my visa, trip to Moscow (to get it), for my tickets (and even extra for some nice things to do while my last few days in Russia), and had given me probably over $1000 in monthly support for months while the paperwork was processed.




there is a discussion elsewhere rather honest (for once) as the above words are.
So why does a man settle with a girl who doesn't love him? Because he got young meat and arm candy and it's all that matters. A deluded man in a 40yo age gap relationship reluctantly admitted age might represent a problem in the future...and he will deal with it when it becomes a problem. Hmm...yes, i can clearly picture him in his 70s, broke, heartbroken, shaking in despair while senescence takes over.

Why do young (hot) girls settle for old geezers? As statistics and hearsay show, Elena might indeed have had 100 (more likely a much lower number) men writing her, but she stood grim chances of ever seeing any of them ( some consensus claims only around 5% of men involved in the MOB process will visit the FSU ) to start with. Among the very feeble number of prospects who might actually visit her, Elena assuredly had no hunk in his 30s.
Common sense: weed out the perpetually undecided, keyboard romeos, players, braggarts misrepresenting themselves and many men with serious personality flaws and you are left with one half of one tenth.
There are wealthy "new russians" riding fancy import cars and living in tzarist era mansions...but they are all taken, or there is a long queue of aspiring beauty queens competing for their favors; so Elena's chances there were even much grimmer.
Elena might have picked some ordinary Oleg or Igor; she may indeeed have had relationships with those, but come think of it, none would ever afford her the western dream, as small as she might imagine her pot of gold to be.
So -as the discussion elsewhere candidly admitted- most of these young cute FSUWs are left with "us western losers, social misfits, old geezers and the like".


quote:I personally don't plan to bring mine because I am the provider for them and it is much cheaper to feed and clothe them when they are in Russia than here.

Very honest. So young cute Elena wanted to do something for her aging parents, besides herself. As seen above, she hadn't 77 choices equally allowing her to fulfill her wishes.

The discussion equally pointed out that one's typical FSUW isn't genetically engineered to like men old enough to be her (grand)father, opposed to western women. Woman are women: from another country, not another planet.

So Elena is very pragmatic, goal-oriented, level-headed and all. She's like drafting a business report, not a love ballad; love is for the poets. As much as i agree with the "love is for the poets" thing, i cannot but wonder at how far anyone's (in Elena's position ) level-headed pragmatism can/will reach.
I wanted to play the romantic chivalron and got (mis)treated like a deluded buffoon, so that is not the good answer, either.
One day she might just miss the "spark", or she might just elope in savage outbursts of passion in a bathroom with some young hunk at school...
After all, pragmatism is not a waffen SS plea of allegiance, but "situational ethics"...what is the best choice here and now might not be the best choice tomorrow and then.

cooldadman
05-27-2007, 04:57 PM
The religion consideration is based out of common sense. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that a lady who takes her religion seriously in most cases will also take seriously the idea of marriage being a sacred sacrament.

Perhaps you are not aware of how Orthodoxy works, but the practice of an Orthodox Christianity does not fit well with the lifestyle and habits of a scammer or someone who is insincere regarding marriage.
Are there exceptions? Duh. But when one is looking for a wife in an international setting, he needs to narrow down his choices for the best chance of success. Thinks like politics, personal philosophies, religion, etc are all important factors to consider for compatability.

The sytle of Orthodox worship with no seats and all standing, movement about to pray at various icons, the quiet atmosphere etc is very different from a Roman Catholic or Protestant setting. Therefore wife hunting in an Orthodox church would be futile. But finding a lady who sincerely practices her faith could help some guys narrow down their choices. It that is not the route you would take, so be it, but don't belittle it for other men who might find it a valuable and sincere tool.

cooldadman
05-27-2007, 04:57 PM
The religion consideration is based out of common sense. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that a lady who takes her religion seriously in most cases will also take seriously the idea of marriage being a sacred sacrament.

Perhaps you are not aware of how Orthodoxy works, but the practice of an Orthodox Christianity does not fit well with the lifestyle and habits of a scammer or someone who is insincere regarding marriage.
Are there exceptions? Duh. But when one is looking for a wife in an international setting, he needs to narrow down his choices for the best chance of success. Thinks like politics, personal philosophies, religion, etc are all important factors to consider for compatability.

The sytle of Orthodox worship with no seats and all standing, movement about to pray at various icons, the quiet atmosphere etc is very different from a Roman Catholic or Protestant setting. Therefore wife hunting in an Orthodox church would be futile. But finding a lady who sincerely practices her faith could help some guys narrow down their choices. It that is not the route you would take, so be it, but don't belittle it for other men who might find it a valuable and sincere tool.

Amerikanski
05-27-2007, 06:55 PM
Cooldadman, you waste the profession of your faith here. No Orthodox man would seek a wife outside of the church, and no Orthodox woman would seek a man or consent to marriage as a MOB. For the most part, the only true Russian/Western marriages are those that are made and continue to exist in the Orthodox faith. I tell my friends that being Orthodox is like riding a bicycle. I can tell you about siting on the seat, and peddling, I can try I explain the principles of Newton's Laws and aerodynamics, but until you actually climb on board and pedal, you will never understand. Christ is in our midst, and blessed Pentecost.

Amerikanski
05-27-2007, 06:55 PM
Cooldadman, you waste the profession of your faith here. No Orthodox man would seek a wife outside of the church, and no Orthodox woman would seek a man or consent to marriage as a MOB. For the most part, the only true Russian/Western marriages are those that are made and continue to exist in the Orthodox faith. I tell my friends that being Orthodox is like riding a bicycle. I can tell you about siting on the seat, and peddling, I can try I explain the principles of Newton's Laws and aerodynamics, but until you actually climb on board and pedal, you will never understand. Christ is in our midst, and blessed Pentecost.

ham
05-27-2007, 08:51 PM
quote:The sytle of Orthodox worship with no seats and all standing, movement about to pray at various icons, the quiet atmosphere etc is very different from a Roman Catholic or Protestant setting. Therefore wife hunting in an Orthodox church would be futile. But finding a lady who sincerely practices her faith could help some guys narrow down their choices. It that is not the route you would take, so be it, but don't belittle it for other men who might find it a valuable and sincere tool.


i said i don't care to discuss private choice and morals, but there is no guarantee churchgoers of any denomination be "better" than non-churchgoers.
Sure, if one "takes her faith seriously"...but how would you know?
A man recently got scammed in a FSU-MOB scam scheme.
He then turned to some christian dating site.
My not so wild guess is that he connected the dots like you did.
He hoped faith would act as an antidote against greed and abuse, but he was taken for a ride again by an african "christian" scammer.
As noted, strictly religious people like ones you refer to, are the most unlikely to be found trolling the WWW/LD/MOB scene.

ham
05-27-2007, 08:51 PM
quote:The sytle of Orthodox worship with no seats and all standing, movement about to pray at various icons, the quiet atmosphere etc is very different from a Roman Catholic or Protestant setting. Therefore wife hunting in an Orthodox church would be futile. But finding a lady who sincerely practices her faith could help some guys narrow down their choices. It that is not the route you would take, so be it, but don't belittle it for other men who might find it a valuable and sincere tool.


i said i don't care to discuss private choice and morals, but there is no guarantee churchgoers of any denomination be "better" than non-churchgoers.
Sure, if one "takes her faith seriously"...but how would you know?
A man recently got scammed in a FSU-MOB scam scheme.
He then turned to some christian dating site.
My not so wild guess is that he connected the dots like you did.
He hoped faith would act as an antidote against greed and abuse, but he was taken for a ride again by an african "christian" scammer.
As noted, strictly religious people like ones you refer to, are the most unlikely to be found trolling the WWW/LD/MOB scene.

cooldadman
05-28-2007, 03:35 AM
Amerikanski: I like your explanation very much. Thank you.

cooldadman
05-28-2007, 03:35 AM
Amerikanski: I like your explanation very much. Thank you.

elenag
05-28-2007, 03:51 AM
quote:Originally posted by ham
So -as the discussion elsewhere candidly admitted- most of these young cute FSUWs are left with "us western losers, social misfits, old geezers and the like".
Geezers, misfits, and losers?
I don't remember ever saying that, because I don't believe that it is true. Most of AM seeking RWs (that I have met personally) are no bigger loosers or misfits than any average AM.


quote:Originally posted by hamOne day she might just miss the "spark", or she might just elope in savage outbursts of passion in a bathroom with some young hunk at school...

Well, I guess out habitually unpleasant conversation just hit a new low! [}:)]



quote:Originally posted by ham
After all, pragmatism is not a waffen SS plea of allegiance, but "situational ethics"...what is the best choice here and now might not be the best choice tomorrow and then.

Yeah, yeah, yeah... Here we go again. Each time I get charged and promply found guilty of things I might do in the future. Oh, well. Hey, Ham, let's just agree to disagree on this subject. I hate it when you start theorizing about my husband and his feelings, or call him names. I mean, you can put my name or my character through through the garbage disposal I can could care less, but please stop calling him names like old geezer etc because it is not very motivating for me to continue this discussion with you.

elenag
05-28-2007, 03:51 AM
quote:Originally posted by ham
So -as the discussion elsewhere candidly admitted- most of these young cute FSUWs are left with "us western losers, social misfits, old geezers and the like".
Geezers, misfits, and losers?
I don't remember ever saying that, because I don't believe that it is true. Most of AM seeking RWs (that I have met personally) are no bigger loosers or misfits than any average AM.


quote:Originally posted by hamOne day she might just miss the "spark", or she might just elope in savage outbursts of passion in a bathroom with some young hunk at school...

Well, I guess out habitually unpleasant conversation just hit a new low! [}:)]



quote:Originally posted by ham
After all, pragmatism is not a waffen SS plea of allegiance, but "situational ethics"...what is the best choice here and now might not be the best choice tomorrow and then.

Yeah, yeah, yeah... Here we go again. Each time I get charged and promply found guilty of things I might do in the future. Oh, well. Hey, Ham, let's just agree to disagree on this subject. I hate it when you start theorizing about my husband and his feelings, or call him names. I mean, you can put my name or my character through through the garbage disposal I can could care less, but please stop calling him names like old geezer etc because it is not very motivating for me to continue this discussion with you.

ham
05-28-2007, 05:05 AM
quote:Yeah, yeah, yeah... Here we go again. Each time I get charged and promply found guilty of things I might do in the future. Oh, well. Hey, Ham, let's just agree to disagree on this subject. I hate it when you start theorizing about my husband and his feelings, or call him names. I mean, you can put my name or my character through through the garbage disposal I can could care less, but please stop calling him names like old geezer etc because it is not very motivating for me to continue this discussion with you.


i didn't call anyone names and i was reporting a discussion from some other place.
As why HE went the MOB route and targeted a woman 30 years younger, i don't need to ask him: i just might ask any man. But of course out of 9999 possible motivations, only the noblest are possible...right? Pffft! [:o)]


quote:Well, I guess out habitually unpleasant conversation just hit a new low!

oh really?




quote:You must understand, just a month ago, I was reading all of the posts about guys who got burned and how there were very few success stories. I always would feel happy and joyful saying to myself "HEY, I'M A SUCCESS STORY; I'VE GOT A RUSSIAN LADY WHO LOVES ME AND WILL BE WITH ME FOREVER !" That was until I found out that she was screwing her boyfriend two or three times per week, discribing to him how much of a FOOL that I was for believing her made up lies and false truths. She was litterally LAUGHING at how stupid I was for believing her at what she was telling me. I recorded her conversations on digital voice recorders (3 of them) spread around the apartment when I was at work. Yes, real James Bond like stuff.

the above quote comes from a supposedly nice man to whom nice things didn't happen.
But i understand you think your pragmatism will stay tuned on this wavelenght forever, and/or that you are not made of flesh&bones, and/or that your man in his 60s is a fitness icon and a stallion and only my father or other men his age experience staggering decline.
You are no waffen SS: you don't volunteer to go being butchered in Berlin under siege because of your unbridled devotion to a lost/declining cause.
If i can read what you type, you are a skillful planner and a pragmatic-level headed one...not a martyr.
Of course no way in hell you could tell me so...i understand [:p].
I met some of those, although you might be the most honest and upfront.
Situational ethics...
Buyer beware...
Or end like the man in the red quote (and so many like him ).

ham
05-28-2007, 05:05 AM
quote:Yeah, yeah, yeah... Here we go again. Each time I get charged and promply found guilty of things I might do in the future. Oh, well. Hey, Ham, let's just agree to disagree on this subject. I hate it when you start theorizing about my husband and his feelings, or call him names. I mean, you can put my name or my character through through the garbage disposal I can could care less, but please stop calling him names like old geezer etc because it is not very motivating for me to continue this discussion with you.


i didn't call anyone names and i was reporting a discussion from some other place.
As why HE went the MOB route and targeted a woman 30 years younger, i don't need to ask him: i just might ask any man. But of course out of 9999 possible motivations, only the noblest are possible...right? Pffft! [:o)]


quote:Well, I guess out habitually unpleasant conversation just hit a new low!

oh really?




quote:You must understand, just a month ago, I was reading all of the posts about guys who got burned and how there were very few success stories. I always would feel happy and joyful saying to myself "HEY, I'M A SUCCESS STORY; I'VE GOT A RUSSIAN LADY WHO LOVES ME AND WILL BE WITH ME FOREVER !" That was until I found out that she was screwing her boyfriend two or three times per week, discribing to him how much of a FOOL that I was for believing her made up lies and false truths. She was litterally LAUGHING at how stupid I was for believing her at what she was telling me. I recorded her conversations on digital voice recorders (3 of them) spread around the apartment when I was at work. Yes, real James Bond like stuff.

the above quote comes from a supposedly nice man to whom nice things didn't happen.
But i understand you think your pragmatism will stay tuned on this wavelenght forever, and/or that you are not made of flesh&bones, and/or that your man in his 60s is a fitness icon and a stallion and only my father or other men his age experience staggering decline.
You are no waffen SS: you don't volunteer to go being butchered in Berlin under siege because of your unbridled devotion to a lost/declining cause.
If i can read what you type, you are a skillful planner and a pragmatic-level headed one...not a martyr.
Of course no way in hell you could tell me so...i understand [:p].
I met some of those, although you might be the most honest and upfront.
Situational ethics...
Buyer beware...
Or end like the man in the red quote (and so many like him ).

elenag
05-28-2007, 03:34 PM
Great. Can we close this conversation now?

elenag
05-28-2007, 03:34 PM
Great. Can we close this conversation now?

ham
05-28-2007, 05:35 PM
quote:Originally posted by elenag

Great. Can we close this conversation now?


i am great? well...yes, you could say so...[:o)][8D]please say it again...you are great, too.

ham
05-28-2007, 05:35 PM
quote:Originally posted by elenag

Great. Can we close this conversation now?


i am great? well...yes, you could say so...[:o)][8D]please say it again...you are great, too.