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PeopleSmoks
07-06-2008, 06:24 PM
Greetings and salutations to my old and dear comrades in the on going struggle against FSU/MOB scamming!

I have chosen to return to the forums from my self-imposed semi-retirement today, as I see there is a new, and yet very familiar, creature who has recently appeared on these pages. It would seem that there is a new "travel assistance agency" in the city of Poltava, Ukraine who has sent a representative to this and, I think we can all be certain, several other anti-scam forums, to post what can only be viewed as less than credible advertisments with a link to his site conveniently included.

My friend swede, as I always will attempt to do, I will even tie this stray bullet into the target you have put forth in your last post, and then continue on with my own thoughts more directly. Our new friend David is a fine example of the fact that regardless of the improving economics in Ukraine, although that in and of itself is debatable, that there are still many in the FSU who very much strive to acquire western dollars in any way possible.

Whatever improvement in the economy of FSU countries has been small. From my limited personal experience, I can say that Ukraine, except for cities like Kiev, Lvov, Odessa and a few others, has been slow to see much improvement. Cities along the sea coast do better than others of course. While I was in Lugansk in early March, the country was in a natural gas crisis. They had not paid there bills to Russia, their main supplier of natural gas. Russia was cutting back on the supply lines, and threatening to cut them off completely. I really don't know how that has all worked out. I haven't seen anything about it on the world news, so I suppose there was an agreement made.

It's hard to know the thoughts of each individual, but it still seems to me that the general feeling, in at least Ukraine, is "Yankee please come here and spend some cash!"... THEN GO HOME!!!

I doubt the economy of Lugansk has improved very much in the four months since I was there. Okay, locals could get an apartment for around $100 USD a month. But, Food may cost just as much per month! On an average $250 to $300 USD salary per month, that really doesn't leave much for other things. Regardless of how the average Ukrainian may view a westerner, they absolutely love all the spent cash we leave behind.

My biggest example of this merchant's attitude is Ivan, the manager of the grocery store where I shopped for food while in Lugansk. I spoke no Russian and he spoke no English, so he personally walked me through his small store to show me around, and presumably to keep my money in his store... or maybe he was just a really nice guy? I would have preferred to have been escorted by the cute cashier, but...:D

It's possible that the numbers of "real" FSUWs has dropped, but I saw on another thread that the US FBI is becoming a bit more involved in internet scamming of late. According to the post, they are also working to involve the authorities of other countries in an effort to curtail the problem on an international scale. I can't wait to see how that works out!

Here's a little something to consider regarding possible motivations for governments where scamming is prevelant... Scenario... Our friend Elena the transexual scam artist cons some guy out of a few hundred dollars. Where is Elena going to spend that money??? More than likely, right into the Ukraine economy that is still in bad need of a solid injection of western dollars! Honestly, why would the Ukraine or local government want to shut down her operation??? Or our new bestest buddy David's operation for that matter??? Yes, I actually wrote "bestest"!!! I don't think it will cause my IQ points to drop since I acknowledged the fact that I wrote that intentionally?

I personally don't see the number of blatant scammers increasing quite as much as the possibility of an increase in the gold-diggers and pro-daters. The US FBI's involvement will probably prove minimal in internet scamming unless the governments of the countries where the scammers are based step up, but I don't see their numbers increasing. However, even IF these government became involved in stopping flat out scamming, how can anyone really put an end to the gold-diggers or pro-daters?

If a man travels to meet a girl, all bets are off. She can accept gifts and anything else a man will send her and then simply say she just doesn't really like him and... well that's it!

For anyone who is wondering if this is what happened to me with Katya and I was too embarassed to come back here, thus my absence... Nope! I never sent her a dime and she never asked for one. Pro-dater??? Maybe? We went out one time, I spent a few bucks, but I also had a great time with her, so I really don't feel ripped off. It was a fun date!

Well, I hope that my returning dissertation was sufficiently long and drawn out enough to bore each and everyone of you to death!!! And to all the funny little minds who illadvisedly venture into the pool in a vain attempt to sell their pitiful wears... DON"T BOTHER!!! We are all much... MUCH smarter than you!!!!!!!!!![8D]

Gotta go! I think one of my three Olgas got her ass sucked into the jacuzzi drain again![:0]





Train returns

swede
07-08-2008, 06:49 AM
Hi PeopleS,

bad, bad boy. Don't you ever walk out on us like that again without notice.

Whole subdivisions of conspiracy-theories have grown up around your absence, the worst and most horrible being, that you had married one (or possibly several) of the Olgas, and were being exposed to a prolonged housebraking-training, FSUW style.

But I'm happy to see you back again, having had nothing better to use my time on than to worry myself to death about the expected collaps of the swedish democracy. But ofcourse, all the various secrets agencies of the world will now legally be able to track every single movement on the web, so scammers beware. Big brother is looking at you also. Not only me. A thought that brings me much consolation in sleepless nights.

PeopleS, it's nice to hear, that we still can disagree in an interesting way, and as always I can only admire your clarity, and I partly stand corrected. My recent opinions here are maybe more based on the present situation in Poland. But where Poland goes, the rest will follow.

(By the way: The gas-conflict UA/Russia resembles closely one Poland had with Russia some years ago).

I have not had the chance to meet this David, you mention. This is my first visit to the forum for a while also, but I'll track him.

As you all can see, the mad prists are out in force again all over the place, but hopefully my bringing this up will not lead to a new censorship purge of the forum again.

And PS; I'm finally getting divorced from my polish wife. Obviously I haven't got so much spine as Prometheus.

swede
07-08-2008, 06:49 AM
Hi PeopleS,

bad, bad boy. Don't you ever walk out on us like that again without notice.

Whole subdivisions of conspiracy-theories have grown up around your absence, the worst and most horrible being, that you had married one (or possibly several) of the Olgas, and were being exposed to a prolonged housebraking-training, FSUW style.

But I'm happy to see you back again, having had nothing better to use my time on than to worry myself to death about the expected collaps of the swedish democracy. But ofcourse, all the various secrets agencies of the world will now legally be able to track every single movement on the web, so scammers beware. Big brother is looking at you also. Not only me. A thought that brings me much consolation in sleepless nights.

PeopleS, it's nice to hear, that we still can disagree in an interesting way, and as always I can only admire your clarity, and I partly stand corrected. My recent opinions here are maybe more based on the present situation in Poland. But where Poland goes, the rest will follow.

(By the way: The gas-conflict UA/Russia resembles closely one Poland had with Russia some years ago).

I have not had the chance to meet this David, you mention. This is my first visit to the forum for a while also, but I'll track him.

As you all can see, the mad prists are out in force again all over the place, but hopefully my bringing this up will not lead to a new censorship purge of the forum again.

And PS; I'm finally getting divorced from my polish wife. Obviously I haven't got so much spine as Prometheus.

PeopleSmoks
07-08-2008, 08:37 AM
Hey swede! Yeah, I'm back, but not in the same capacity as before. Things have been incredibly hectic of late with work, my search for a "real" good girl, studying Russian etc.

The censorship here remains in place... in its most recent form, it appears to be debatable as to whether our new friend David should have been censored or his posts commented on by the admin.

He is clearly selling something, or at least it WAS clear prior to being censored. Perhaps the admin will see fit to censor what I say since it is somewhat critical of their approach to the whole issue of censorship on these pages?

Censorship can be a touchy subject. David had provided a link to a website for travel to Poltava in all of his posts. It is gone. I chose to voice my opinion regarding his actions... the admin chose to remove his link as though we here are not adult enough to form our own opinions about such things.

I think it would have been better to read the admin's opinions rather than to have had it censored. The forums should be a hallowed place for the sharing and exchange of thoughts, information and opinions. As much as I did not like the way he went about "sharing" his information, it was not necessarily injurious to anyone.

It's time for me to step down from my soapbox and go to work. I'll be around a bit more, and perhaps we will have the opportunity to engage in another of our unecessarily long, drawn out debates on the greater social issues facing mankind, using multi-syllable words and run-on sentences?[8D]

Sorry to hear that you are splitting from your wife, but from some of what you have written here in the past, it would seem that it has been a strained relation for a while.



Train returns

swede
07-08-2008, 02:33 PM
Hi PeopleS,

let's see to what extent you want to join. But our former roving around (including Ham's participation) did have some meaning, considering that parts of it were almost prophetic, at least in a minor way, seen in the light of recent developments.

One subject I find interesting in the growing surveillance obsession on the part of authorities and other powergroups, is what the surveillance will be used for. With my usual distrust for powerconcentrations, I do not find theories of 'a state in the state' with its own laws, economy and leadership impossible. They steal as much as they can from public means, and the rest comes from private enterprising. Controlling the web means some advantages in market-economy.

So:

You're right in saying, that lovesick and naive WM (and the sextourists) put a lot of money in the FSU economy, but as have been suggested often here, it will be cheaper to stay at home and use the local commercial opportunities. On 'Ladies of negotiable affection'. This will get through soon to most WM, and the romantic (or whatever) tours to FSU will be less common.

I'm not quite up to my former standard, f.ex. is my frothing around the mouth not what it used to be, but I'll try to prophesize without it: The next big money will be in human traficking; as standard scamming and sex-tourism diminish.

A fascinating prospect, with a lot of interesting possibilities of paranoia.

To David: I do not have statistics of the education systems in FSU, but I have met a lot of youths, and they all seem VERY ambitious and industrious concerning the aspect of education. Considering the craving for western life-style is high, and there are no free lunches in FSU, you can either become a criminal or get a good education to get to the promised land of the shopping mall.

PeopleSmoks
07-09-2008, 08:31 PM
Hey swede! You,ve touched on several interesting topics. Easy stuff first...

FSU education- The younger the more likely to have a degree from one of the hundreds of universities around these countries. School is relatively inexpensive to Ukrainian natives, and the hope of getting a good paying job leads many to stay in school.

Also, combine this with a not so great job market and staying in school seems like a good idea. Ukrainian women have it even tougher than the men. Sure they celebrete Women's Day, but it's a man's world there and a man is far more likely to get the better job even with lesser qualifications than his female counter-part.

Yes, I have heard that these are very ambitious people. Whether their ultimate goal is that swimming pool in the west or to be able to better scam some shmuck, it's hard to say. But, something I've read, and talked about here is the expectations of western men to mold their FSUW into Betty Crocker. Your 25 year old Ukrainian sweet-heart just spent, "How many years?", getting a degree! Do you really think she is going to want to rub your smelly feet and wash the crap stains out of your underwear?

Human trafficing- I've heard that this has been going on at least as long as the whole FSUW marrying WM craze. What I've read is that it is very often organized crime in the FSU that brokers deals with well to do "gentlemen" in many countries including the US, England, Dubai, Turkey and Japan.

One of the few "real" FSUWs gets suckered in by some mobster posing as "Mr. Right" and the next thing she knows, she's a sex slave to some smelly bastard and really has no clue where the hell she is!

But, I personally see pro-daters and gold-diggers as being the new leaders in the scam parade.

Local commercial opportunities (nicely put)- Not so appealing to someone who is honestly hoping to find... dare I say it... LOVE? Okay, a guy can get his rocks off for the night, but it only relieves the very localized high blood pressure issue he was feeling in his nether region and not that emptiness he has in his life.

Survielence- For us in the US, the reason is a easy as 911. The problem is, how far is too far? It's a fine line between personal liberty and security. I personally don't give a rat's ass if some guy from the FBI is reading this. In the US, I can say George Bush is the greatest President in history, or I can say he's a flaming turd! I just can't make threats against his or anyone elses life, and that is somewhat reasonable. Mr. or MS. FBI, Homeland Security, CIA, NSA, ATF, TSA, Secret Service, NASA, NAACP or anyone else who did read this agent type person, please take note that I like Mr. Bush and did not make any kind of threat toward his safety or anyone else's!!!

FSU tourism is a big money maker for them. Again, I will refer to my knowledge of Ukraine. NO VISA for citizens of the US and many other countries! The government wants us to come and bring our money! Hey, if we take a couple of FSUWs home with us, they'll just make more! Relatively speaking, I didn't spend an exhorbinant amount of money while in Lugansk, but it was more than if I didn't go there.

I'm sure others spend MUCH more! But for my trip, Lilia (my landlord) made money, Ivan (the grocery store manager) made money, the internet cafe, night clubs, taxis, restaurants, all made a little more than if I had not gone. And that money is maybe put into savings? or spent back into the Ukraine economy.

Yankee go home? It doesn't seem to be the official sentiment?

Well, I've rambled on for long enough. It's time to go have one of my Olgas rub my smelly feet![:o)]


Train returns

Prometheus
07-10-2008, 06:12 PM
PeopleSmoks!

Train really does return. I figured you were left for dead in a Lugansk whore house, or worse. Please revile us with some tales of adventure, and lovely Olgas with monkey toes.

Prometheus

PeopleSmoks
07-10-2008, 08:20 PM
Hey Prometheus! Sorry I didn't answer your e-mail. As I look back, I think I should have extended you that courtesy even though I had more or less exiled myself from the forums for a time. Again, my apologies.

It would seem that a good portion of psycho-b has disappeared? I had made a few posts about my adventures in Lugansk when I got home. I gues, I will try to recap for you and anyone else interested, but not tonight. Honestly, there was nothing that turned out to be too exciting after all, although I had some hopes at the time.

Lugansk wh@re house???? Why would I bother with a wh@re house when I was traveling with a credit card that has a limit greater than the gross national product of Ukraine? Well, maybe not all of Ukraine, but everything east of the Dnepre! Slap a couple hundred grivna on the bar and the FSU hotties swarm like sharks in a feeding frenzy! Take your pick!!!!!

I'm only kidding, but it actually started to sound good as I wrote it.[:o)] Maybe next trip??? Honestly, I've continued my search, since it seems that things aren't happening with the lovely Katya. Which reminds me... I really need to update my little website!

Familiarity makes things a bit easier the second time around, so I have been, again, looking to establish something with ladies in Lugansk. I know a little about the city now and let's face facts, even though Lugansk has a bit of a reputation for scamming, it's no worse than any other city in thwe FSU. I think Nikoleav is getting pretty bad!

There are a couple of ladies that I have discussed a meeting with and they have been receptive of the idea, at least in our 8,000 km separated communications. At present, I plan to return to Lugansk in September. God, I love my job!!!!! Hey, I'm not a richy rich guy, but I really do have a pretty decent job and can afford to do this sh!t. Especially since I AM quite single!

Well Prometheus, I'll talk about my three Olgas at another time, but I promise it will be interesting. Dobray vecher![8D]

Train returns

swede
07-11-2008, 09:06 AM
PeopleS. Your next-last post started a chain of thoughts in me (not finished yet). For once I'm unable to form any final, clear, personal opinions.

But as you bring up the subject of 'love', I think this is as good a startingpoint as any. In the blessed absense of sex-tourists and other lower lifeforms here, it's my impression, that the few steady readers left are individuals with an expectation of love, combined with a wish for something not too 'sheepwalker'-like. Otherwise we wouldn't have taken the trouble to look so far and wide. Even I, living here as a self-imposed recluse, could find myself a consumer-crazed shoppingmall worshipper, with whom I could form an alliance against 'being alone'.

Those of us, who have the vague phenomenon 'awareness' (as opposed to sheepwalking) as a part of our lives, are few and scattered, and the web has (sofar) been a very effective tool for communication. Maybe unnecessary to add, both bad and good communication.

Some of you may think, I'm exaggerating my concerns about the socio-psychological, political, ideological and economical effects of the-powers-that-be efforts to control communication. I think, my attitude is reasonable.

PeopleS gives a good example of the freedom-of-speech in his post. He can state his opinion of the american president, and does not expect any reprisals because of it. Here in Europe the general feeling is not so positive. People are getting slightly paranoic because of the new surveillance laws, and a rather highstrung discussion has started about a possible development towards '1984', Hitler's Germany or some sovjet-like situation.

As many of you reading this will be americans, you may well think, that this is not your problem. But it is, especially considered from a net-dating point of view. The technical background is, that Sweden (with probably the western world's most advanced surveillance law, which is so vague in democratic safeguards, that it can be used for absolutely anything) has a very central role in web-communication for all european and russian traffic. I've heard mentioned, that up to 80% of all european and russian web-traffic passes the swedish borders, and according to the new law, it's now legal to scan it, read it, store it etc. ALSO if you're an american as one part of the communication.

With Sovjet in memory still, have do you think, the 'real' FSUW will react to this? Any 'intimate' mails, SMS or telephonecalls can be listened to. And how will anybody with a not-run-of-the-mill attitude react? Original ideas, creativity, criticism of ideologies etc will disappear.

If my conclusions are correct, we will soon see a complete disappearance of the 'real' and interesting people from the net and on the dating-part only the trite or criminal will remain. You can just as well mate up with a gum-chewing chearleader with TV serials as her highest intellectual acchievement.

PeopleSmoks
07-12-2008, 06:06 PM
Hey swede!
quote: PeopleS. Your next-last post started a chain of thoughts in me (not finished yet). For once I'm unable to form any final, clear, personal opinions.Well, either my words hold some validity and have invoked some deep thought from your end, or I wrote something so friggin' stupid that you're at a loss for words???[:p]

I used the word "love", but it can be a tricky little bugger to define. But, coupling type of love, or being "in love", I suppose I would generalize as two people who simply enjoy being with each other more than they enjoy being with anyone else?

I have to say that to have an "expectation" to find love in the FSU/MOB world is not a healthy way to go, and anyone who holds such "expectations" is setting themself up for a bad time. Seek, search, strive to find, but don't expect love.

I think most of the guys who are really serious about this stuff have done a little research, and hopefully understand that (real) FSUWs just aren't stupid girls looking to become arm candy. So yea, if anyone is looking for a mindless sheepwalking idiot, the FSU is the wrong place to look. Hey, I'm sure you can find a few bubble heads there if you really look for them, but they usually don't go online or to agencies.

Besides, any man with any level of intelligence would soon be bored to death with a dullard for a wife!:D So I would say that most of the sincere guys want a smart girl for a prospective wife. A pretty face, hot body and the classic agency propaganda of cooking tasty dishes, keeping a clean and cozy home, etc, are nice too! Honestly, as for the shopping mall worshipping... maybe FSUWs are a little worse on average, but trust me, there aren't many women in the US who wouldn't love to waste half their lives away wandering aimlessly through store after store at the local mall!!![:0]

Now to the whole "Big Brother" issue... Even going back to the "Cold War" days, I really never had a problem with government observation of communications in general. Such things really never affected anyone's everyday life adversely, except during the infamous McCarthy hearings of the 50s! But he was a douche!!!!!

Again we need to look at post 911 US mentality to see where we are as a country on the "Big Brother" issue. It's not like WWII when in the words of Yamamoto, "All we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant..." Sure it woke us up! But who and where do we strike back at? Iraq? I have a whole theory on the real reason we bitch slapped that country! Afghanistan? Someone thought he heard a friend of a friend's second cousin twice removed say something about some other guy told a hooker in UAE that he heard Osama Bin Laden was there... Two years ago!

Terrorism has become a twisted politicalized abomination of a religious ideal. There is no country to attack. It would be like a war against Catholosism or any other religion. The people live everywhere! So how do we defend against another attack like 911? Our goverment looks out for us by monitoring everything! And right now, in this country, we would prefer this small invasion into our lives by our own government than to see the news of another attack as we all saw 7 years ago.

There will always be those who will oppose what the US government is doing as far as their survielence techniques, but it IS majority rules here... for the most part, and most want this protection from our "Big Brother" or Uncle Sam.

Heck, I want a US Marshall on the next plane I get on! I hope he's sitting next to me. I want the Secret Service to read this if it means they also read a message from some bastard talking about blowing up a... SHOPPING MALL full of kids and displaced FSUWs!!!

Now to Sweden... I, me, personally not looking to find a future wife there, so my research on your country's politics is so up to date. But, there have been a few items that a local rock radio station I listen to has picked up on and passed along, which suggest that YOUR "Big Brother" is an assh@le.

The one I can think of right now is that a couple wanted to name their baby Elvis? But, after a court battle were told they couldn't because the baby is a girl and Elvis is a boy's name! Is that story true?

There were a few other stories of government incursions into the private lives of law abiding citizens that I can't recall, but seemed quite over the top when I heard about them.

As to web communication, I don't worry too much unless my e-mails are unexpicably censored prior to reaching their intended destination. Sven, Bjorn, or whoever can read my e-mail all they want. Maybe they'll learn something?

Also realize that if the Swedish government is monitoring the web, chances are the US government is somehow monitoring them! Things get a bit hazy in the smoke filled back rooms where the under-belly of all governments do their best work, but I would think the US would express a strong disapproval if Sweden's domestic policies infringed on US citizens...toooooooooooooooo much.

As you can tell, I kind of like my "Big Brother". Mostly because he hasn't anally raped me... YET? I can only hope that we remain a free and democratic nation through these times and that unlike the years of total isolationism prior to the "spat" that was WWII, our government voices it's opinion about things instead of waiting for the worst to happen.


Train returns

swede
07-13-2008, 05:43 AM
Hi PeopleS,

no, you didn't write anything stupid. It's only my habit of having too many balls in the air, which manifested. Sometimes they come tumbling down on me, and I momentarily loose the ability to think clearly.

Humanity being what it is, democracy looks like reasonable functional way of diminishing the havoc we are potential of creating otherwise. A balance between obligations and freedom, guidelines for politics, saferegulations for poweruse etc. All regulated in a set of rules accepted by all parts.

Ofcourse this is only the 'official' version. Behind the public theater the same old warlords, robber-barons, the religious insane and the sociopaths still rule. But the average sheepwalker, who just wants to live her/his life in mild greed and mental laziness, usually doesn't care as long as s/he is left in peace to pursue these noble aims.

But reptilebrained alpha (fe)males ofcourse can't leave well alone, so on a regular basis they bend the rules and take their sandbox conflicts out in the open. On the device of reducing democracy to almost zero to defend democracy (that's logic for you) the sheepwalker is turned into cannonfodder by the help of inflaming speeches and military music.

Suddenly the sheepwalker on the other side of the fence is a moneygrabbing jew, a nigger, an 'injun', a tibetan, a commie, a capitalist, a wishy-washy liberal, and you certainly don't want your sister to marry one of THOSE, do you?

And so the circus starts again with trails of tears, sharing out of smallpox infected blankets, kz-camps, bonfires with live witches, crusades and why not...., world wars.

We are reaching one of those polarised periods again, where the old christian crusader west is meeting their archenemy, the jihad again. With the usual spice of money and politics added to make it more interesting. And very few have any clue about what is actually happening or why.

To stay aloof is difficult, everybody is expected to take sides, and if they don't want, they are manipulated into doing it.

When I was in Ukarine, the country was literally split in the middle between pro-russian and pro-west sympathies, and the people I met worried about a potential civil war (it did get quite rough occasionally some places). I doubt it's much better now. So the WM going to UA (or Russia) for dating must be prepared to 'politically correct' to hope for a positive outcome. As if scamming, agency-fakes, gold-diggers and general conning wasn't enough.

PeopleS, I'm not getting into neighbourhood politics. Europe is standing infor a critical political period, with a possible
new sovjet-like state being created here for all Europe. And for various reasons Sweden plays a crucial role in this powergame. And as to the freedom of speach here, I can only cite our former prime minister's words: "Anyone hurting Sweden's international reputation, I will personally crush". A kind of modern McCarthy version.

PeopleSmoks
07-18-2008, 07:12 PM
Greetings swede and all who may drop by for a free taste of overly indulgient, sometimes bordering on slovenly, opinionism!

swede, I think we should leave your manifested, tumbling, airy balls to another forum... or maybe we can start a new thread?[:o)]

Democracy is far from nirvana, but it has more or less proven to be the most workable of the existing political philosophies so far. Unlike Stalin's application of communism, within the confines of democracy, we all know and generally have come to accept that there will be those who have, take, legally steal, a little more than others.

I personally don't go in for the "Free Masons" or the "Illuminatee" conspiracy theories, but I do believe in the power brokers of the world. I see it as something similar to the other conspiracies, but not quite as deeply woven into the "All seeing and all controlling" aspect that has been given to the afore mentioned groups.

And, I think you're very right about the average person not caring so much as long as he or she is able to attain a certain level of person comfort. I certainly don't think of myself as a "sheepwalker", however, I can freely admit that I'm not so concerned about some things so long as my little piece of the world isn't trampled on.

But, I do stand back and take a look at the big picture from time to time. We ARE in a potetially dangerous time. The individual must begin to take notice of the manner and reasons for the limits being put on certain freedoms so as not to allow things to get out of control.

Post 911 America is a different place to be sure. It was a major shock to our system! No foriegn entity has attacked the US mainland with significant force since 1815! During WWII, Nazi subs never really launched any attacks, although many, I for one, believe that the stories of their incursions up the Delaware River have some validity. The Japanese "balloon bomb" attacks, accounted for fewer than a dozen casualties. Most of the bombs never reached the US, and most of the few that did, exploded harmlessly in unpopulated areas.

But, 911 hurt! It pissed us all off! But, the response was miss guided, although I think somewhat intentionally.

A brief history lesson for those who don't know...
Iraq invaded Kuwait. Pres. Bush #1 said leave or else. Saddam Hussien replied with a big "F@CK YOU"! Pres. Bush #1 answered with a very telivised "NO... F@CK YOU B!TCH"! Now, I don't know for sure, but, I heard that Hussien had tried to have Pres. Bush #1 assasinated!

Enter Pres. Bush#2... 911... Now, if I were the leader of the world's most powerful military, I'd be itching like a Kiev prostitute with the crabs to find a reason to go get the S.O.B. that tried to have my daddy killed! The result, "Gulf War II".

More of my personal politics... Bill Clinton is a *****! Sorry for not censoring myself on that, but I feel very strongly that HE caused 911. Stories have been flying that the CIA found Bin Laden and was ready to "eliminate" this threat, but the Clinton Whitehouse
sh!t-canned the idea!

Also, a little known Clinton administration fact... The US HAD a fighter wing stationed in Pomona, NJ, But during the Clinton years, with a Democratic party control congress, that base was closed. They couldn't give us the universal health care they promised to get elected, but they sure were good at closing up our military bases!

Well, as it turns out, the now non-existent 177th fighter wing WOULD have been able to scramble and intercept the second plane before it hit the second Trade Center tower! They would have been 8 minutes closer than the fighters coming out of Maine or Massachusetts, I can't remeber which.

I doubt it would have made any difference in the Bush/Bush/Hussien scenario, with one tower going down, but lives could have been saved. By the way, Pomona is also the closet... was, also the closet on guard base to the Pentagon which was also hit!

Well, I'm done with that little rant! What was the question?

But, it is still left to those of us who have our eyes open to slap those who are "sheepwalking" from time to time and try to wake them! We have to make a conscious decision about where the line must be drawn between liberty and security! This goes to the people of all supposedly free nations, and we all need to understand just what "sabre-rattling" is, and not let ourselves get caught up in the fear of the day, but look at the long term.
quote:Suddenly the sheepwalker on the other side of the fence is a moneygrabbing jew, a nigger, an 'injun', a tibetan, a commie, a capitalist, a wishy-washy liberal, and you certainly don't want your sister to marry one of THOSE, do you?PREJUDICE!!! It is a useful tool of the elitists on both sides of the political fence, especially if there exisists a disearnable difference in physical appearance from those who are being manipulated.
quote:And so the circus starts again with trails of tears, sharing out of smallpox infected blankets...Looks like you did a little research! But, you have to understand... back then, the "red man" was considered to be an untrainable animal, so it was okay to thin out the population using whatever means were available. As to "The Crusades"... I hope there are enough people out here who don't have their heads up their butts to not let things go that far![V]
quote:When I was in Ukarine, the country was literally split in the middle between pro-russian and pro-west sympathiesThis seems to be a matter of heritage. Many of the people in the east are of Russian heritage, where as in the west, they are more of Ukraine or various european decent, and it seems to almost be divided by the Dnipre.

I recall Jens talking about plans to go to western Ukraine and speaking Russian. I believe my suggestion was to watch his approach with Russian in some parts of the west.

In closing for today, I will say that your former Prime Minister's words can also be seen as altruistic patriotism. Just as long as it doesn't lead to a McCarthy like "witch hunt". You can trust that the power brokers here in the US will be watching closely as to what develops over there in Europe!

Well, I need a beer! Say hey to great-grandfather badger for me![8D]


Train returns

swede
07-20-2008, 12:24 PM
Hi PeopleS,

sorry if my style has been somewhat 'cramped' lately. I hope this post will be enough of a change of topic. Or maybe it's just the same in a new packaging.

As we talked quite a lot about earlier, all relating between two or more individuals can be based on different principles. The predatory, hierachial, darwinistic, reptilebrain-behaviour with power fights, which seems to be the most common method favoured by nature. On a mechanistic, passive basis, it can be said to be THE natural way.

Or on the other hand the symbiotic approach, which while it does appear 'naturally' sometimes, isn't so common, especially not at the level of complex biological beings (as f.ex. human beings). To make symbiosis function to any significant degree requires some conscious effort. It's an uphill project.

One of the hurdles in creating a symbiotic process (be it a personal relationship or a political system like democracy) is to diminish the instinctive attitude of: "Can I eat this, or will it eat me?", and instead create a sense of mutual trust and confidence.

Where there's distrust and suspicion, all the slowly build up reciprocial goodwill towards 'the bad guys' will evaporate, and a more or less pronounced paranoia will grow. Not only at a national or ideological level, but also at the individual level.

To take an example: Marriage, which used to be something based on love, attraction, respect etc (at least that was the ideal), seems now to be more and more like a 'social contract' you make for your own convenience. My point here isn't whether this is good or bad, but more as an expression of lessening trust. People marry the same way, as they would buy a second-handed car.

Taking such a generally lowered level of trust to an extreme will create a lot of problems, possibly leading to major conflicts. The anti-dote, for getting through such a period unscathed, requires a lot of individual integrity, but also some kind of inner strength.

Maybe I'm drawing too far-reaching conclusions, because I'm (over?)sensitive to the flow of social changes, but it's my personal impression, that we're reaching an ebb in humanity's search for symbiosis. I haven't been much out on dating-sites lately (I find them an excellent thermometer of social temperature, if you read them deeper), but what little I've noticed recently is, that the climate is definitely hardening. Not least on the site-owners' part. I've seen examples of completely outrageous charges on a monthly basis, for promised services at 'snake-oil' quality.

People must be rather desperate to hook on to such absurd propositions. Any opinions?

Goddiejens
07-27-2008, 10:07 AM
quote:Originally posted by swede

Hi PeopleS,
(...)
To take an example: Marriage, which used to be something based on love, attraction, respect etc (at least that was the ideal), seems now to be more and more like a 'social contract' you make for your own convenience. My point here isn't whether this is good or bad, but more as an expression of lessening trust. People marry the same way, as they would buy a second-handed car.
(...)
People must be rather desperate to hook on to such absurd propositions. Any opinions?


Hi Swede,

the main partner of any marriage contract in Germany, Switzerland or Austria is not one of the fiancees who are going to sign it right now. The main partner in this contract is the state!

The state might give a small tax advantage as expression of a certain protection in order to honorate family building and creation of children (new soldiers, new workforce, reproduction of the citizenship).

Whenever it comes to separation and divorce the separating parties will get to know that the state has been the strongest and main partner in that marriage issue. In that moment the man will note that the state makes him bankrupt by paying all the alimentation to his ex wife and children based on a calculation with such figures like "fictive income". His payments have to be done in real Euro banknotes, fictive one are not accepted!

The second not so weak partner in the marriage contract is the woman. Her living standard is guaranteed by having chosen the Mr. Right for what she considers "good life". Her children will always be difficult in periods of separation and divorce so that she cannot work officially and catches the alimentation amounts every month plus financial support from the state. And children are always property of the mothers. This is a non-official very strict law.

The only loser is the man in such marriage contract. He is the payer of all. He works to pay alimentation. He works to pay the tax amount which passes over to his divorced exwife plus children. His living standard is not guaranteed at all! He can continue to work fulltime but what he gets out is not more as the amount which receives a poor social guy from the state to survive.

Please don't name this "justice".

Best regards from Belgium,
Goddiejens

PeopleSmoks
07-27-2008, 11:26 AM
Greetings swede and Jens! Some months ago, the comparison between symbiosis and modern marriages was looked at. I believe that my thoughts were that marriage, in many cases, is as close as humans get to symbiotic relationships, although relationships are symbiotic in their nature. A basic friendship can be considered symbiotic. Each person in the friendship is giving and taking companionship to and from the other in some form.

The same is true of marriage. Thinking in terms of the "traditional" marriage, the man works and provides food, clothing, shelter and maybe some token tributes (flowers, jewelry, etc) to his mate. The woman gives the maintenance of their home, cooking of meals and of course sexual favors. In between, both provide a level of companionship to the other.

There is almost always a factor of "love" involved in there somewhere, although it has been noted to be in varying degrees from marriage to marriage. Mind you that I place "arranged" marriages in a different, but similar symbiotic category. These types of marriages are more of a symbiosis between family arrangers than they are of the actual individuals being wed.

Jens, you can add the US to your list of "marriage contract" states. The difference here is that getting married is actully a tax penalty! The tax rate on a married couple is actually higher than it is on a single person. Deductions are given for dependent children, but it still doesn't seem to offset the difference in the higher rate. This is the reason why so many couples choose to "live together" as opposed to getting married.

In some, but not all states, if a couple cohabitates for a certain length of time, I believe seven years to be the most common, they are viewed as being married under "common law". Under this law, everything applies to the relationship except the taxation of income, but in a split, the woman gets the same lion(ness)'s share of the property and man's future income just as she would in a "traditional" marriage.



Train returns

swede
07-30-2008, 04:33 PM
Sorry about the delay, but I've been busy trying to save the swedish constitution. As the swedish seem to be devoid of much humour, I've unfortunately been unable to make mad priests or Olgas part of my debating. For me a severe handicap.

At a grander scale, it looks as if the predatory model is gaining in popularity, most openly expressed in politics, religion and economics, but (I have a feeling) also at the individual level.

All this probably passes by the average sheepwalker, who will only experience the occasional divorce, mental breakdown or cancelled TV-football match. Maybe such re-occurences of insanity is a sign of cycles of cosmic energy.

What I really think is interesting is the anti-dote: Symbiosis. We have almost threshed the subject to death, so I will in true psychobabbling-style go on to a next box reveiling itself inside the symbiosis subject.

As symbiosis is somewhat 'un-natural', it requires an effort and a change to arrive at. And I remember you once saying, PeopleS, that you found change difficult. So do I at the present, I seem to be stuck in some rather uninspirering and half-empty routines. Introspection only leads to finding a deep tiredness, with little motivation for anything.

Well, I still have my curiousity at least, which prevents this from being a post of embarrasing selfpity. Could be, that some of you out there have some observations based on a broader statistical basis, than the two persons I have contact with in a week on an average (that is actually weeks, where socializing gets out of hand. Mostly it's more quiet). So don't hesitate, flood the thread with answers.

PeopleSmoks
07-30-2008, 07:04 PM
Hey swede! Good luck in your efforts to save Sweden from itself... or should I say from it's own political machine.
quote:As symbiosis is somewhat 'un-natural', it requires an effort and a change to arrive at.I have to disagree. Symbiosis in some form or another, seems very natural. Think bees and flowers. Bees rely on flowers to collect nectar, and the flowers use the bees to spread their pollen from flower to flower thus feritiling them. This relationship is said to be the key to all life on this rock we call Earth!

I see friendships as a form of symbiosis. Each person gives and takes something from the relationship. And coupling is much the same. Okay, it may not be the type of symbiosis that you originally were thinking of, I would imagine being total inter-dependence, but these are forms of symbiosis none the less.

These types of symbiotic relationships are pretty common, and have been going on for... a really long time!

In some ways, which perhaps only my twisted mind can equate, sheepwalkers and reptile brains have a form of symbiosis between them. Sheepwalkers need the reptile brains to protect them and to tell them what to do. Reptile brains need the sheepwalkers to fight the wars and give them the power they so desire.

I quit smoking on Sunday!!! So I may not be as lucid as usual?[8D]





Train returns

swede
07-31-2008, 03:01 PM
Hi PeopleS,

as always your answer made me in a good mood. You have this talent, even when we disagree.

To define and clarify the concept of symbiosis I propose to take nature as a starting-point. Nature as in plants, bushes, trees, wild animals (except badgers ofcourse) etc. Humans are too complicated to use as a basis for looking at the subject at first.

Being a peasant of 25 years standing (mostly; even peasant have to lie down to sleep occasionally) I have seen predation and symbiosis expressed clearly on my farm. My impression is, that predation makes up about 80% of the activities. Apart from bees as you mentioned, I can see f.ex. grass and clover as another example. They have an exchange of oxygen and nitrogen beneficial to both parts.

Both predation and symbiosis at this level seems to be purely mechanistic, created by 'blind' evolutionary forces, where no conscious choices are involved.

If we now go to the level of more complex beings, like mammals, my guess is, that the 80/20 ratio between predation and symbiosis isn't far off the mark. If a group of sheepwalkers are involved in a catastrophe situation, say a big fire, very few would react 'noble', decent towards others (with the possible exception of friends or family), but try to save themselves regardless of the consequences of their actions on the surroundings. People getting stuck in a door, blocking it up, trampling each other to death kind-of-thing. Not to mention the morbid curiousity, which prevents police, ambulances or firebrigades to get through a crowd of street theater audience (the last one I've experienced first-hand here).

Those of us who have a wish to develop towards a higher degree of symbiosis (as individuals or as a social form) will also contain such instinctive, reptile-brain impulses. To change towards symbiosis requires a change of these reptile impulses and this can only be done by a conscious effort.

The general failure of WM and FSUW dating can possibly be a result of such inability or unwillingness to change. It's still: "What can I get from this?" Very little thought of: "What can WE get from this?" arises.

This is ofcourse also the situation in both US and Europe, but the WM/FSUW relation have some strong incitements, which ought to make it ideal. The FSUW being intelligent, well-educated, lovely and most of all feminine and the WM being a good family provider (good income and not drinking half of it up in a bar).

But this equation doesn't seem to add up. Something goes wrong on the way.

As always (a bit tiresome) I see a pattern in both the big and the small, suggesting an underlying common denominator. Just as the warbuffs seem to have the time of their life now, so the ability for the individual to manage his/her own life is also a mess at the present.

For now I'll just put ?????? as to what and how.

PS Sorry to hear about the smoking. What about beer and sex; next on the list?

PeopleSmoks
07-31-2008, 09:07 PM
Hey swede! I hope you continue to fight the good fight against the high and mighty who seek to relieve the people of Sweden of their personal thoughts and beliefs! My only fears are that you may not take into account that to fight a reptile brain system, you will need to think as a reptile brain, and if you do this, that you will become one without realizing. Although, I personally like to think that you have already taken these factors into account.

The issue of symbiosis is something that you need to define. You speak of a need for change among humans to achieve a symbiotic state, but I see symbiosis of different types, everywhere I look, particularly as I said about the "natural" desire to couple. I see symbiosis as being a very natural state, both in nature and amongst humans and other "higher" intellectual creatures.

I can even see a twisted form of symbiosis between preditor and prey, which, although not necessarily beneficial to the individual, is certainly beneficial to each species.

An example of this is wolf and deer. Wolves hunt and eat deer. Only the fastest and strongest deer escape to breed. Wolves flourish, but hunting becomes scarce. The slow and weak begin to die off. Now the faster, stronger deer begin to flourish. Only the fastest, strongest and most cunning wolves can catch them. The wolf population becomes stronger. The individual does not necessarily benefit, but both species have become stronger.

Now watch this... FSU/MOB scamming! Scammers are the preditors, dumb WMs are the prey. Scammers get money, WMs get smarter and share information, scammers develop new hooks, WMs learn and get smarter... The individual may or may not benefit, but each group becomes better because of the interaction.

The problem I see with "real" FSUWs and "sincere" WMs is unrealistic hopes and expectations brought about by the industry of FSU/MOB dating sites. Yes, FSUWs are different from western women, but they ARE still women!!! And WMs are different from FSUMs, but we ARE still men! When both sides come to this realization, the act of symbiotic coupling will be so much simpler!

Well, the not smoking thing hasn't driven me to kill anyone... yet. But then again, not smoking is far from a reason for me to kill someone!!! I have plenty of reasons to do that!!!!!

Beer will NEVER be on my list of things not to do, and as for sex, it's been a good year for drinking... Need I say more?[xx(]



Train returns

swede
08-01-2008, 11:58 AM
REVISED!

Cit PeopleS:

"My only fears are that you may not take into account that to fight a reptile brain system, you will need to think as a reptile brain, and if you do this, that you will become one without realizing. Although, I personally like to think that you have already taken these factors into account."

You are depressingly correct, and to my shame, I've only recently learned it. I'm at the present having a heated discussion with a guy, who follows a strict McCarthy ideology. You must dismantle democracy to protect democracy etc. What he really means is ofcourse, that there's this other gang of alpha males, and now he wants to shoot it out with them, to see who's the topdog. The political ideology, thin as it is, is only a pretext to start a fight.

Aaaargh.


Cit PeopleS:

"The individual does not necessarily benefit, but both species have become stronger."

Yes, correct, But what's the purpose of that? In the end we'll only have super-species being eaten or eating each other.

My definition of true symbiosis is more 'purist' than yours. The process must be volentary/not involve force and a two-way direct exchange must take place. No making mother nature into the great recycling leveller.

Disregarding the ratio of 'natural' predation/symbiosis, my point (when talking about a change towards symbiosis) is, that this change is a change OF attitudes of predation INTO symbiosis. Maybe evolution can do this, but it takes eternities. A quick change must be a conscious choice.

Your observations about WM and FSUW are pragmatically correct, as far as I can see. What makes me wonder is, why very few people can see, that symbiosis is so much more effective than predation. At least at the human level.

Apart from the direct criminally minded professional scammers, I believe that the average relatively decent, and only slightly greedy, FSUW are not happy with the present situation. 'It's either this stupid millionaire or nothing' is abysmal idiocy.

Guess I have to get rid of my naive optimism and concentrate on gloomy, realistic misanthropy and start accepting, that a lot of people are terminally stupid.

swede
08-02-2008, 10:41 AM
Brothers and sisters, let us all gather to praise the unintelligent designer of the universe, because he in his endless mysteriousity has made a revival of the alpha-male syndrom possible.

We thank thee, O Big Boss in the sky, and for our worship and submission to thee, we only ask one small favor in return.

Please don't let this last so long, that it will have a permanent negative effect on the stockmarket.

Sorry, one more thing. Couldn't you make the pricetags on FSUW go down a bit? Not everyone can afford a swimmingpool.

PeopleSmoks
08-02-2008, 12:50 PM
Hey swede!
quote:Cit PeopleS:

"The individual does not necessarily benefit, but both species have become stronger."

Yes, correct, But what's the purpose of that?The purpose is very simple... survival of the fittest. Both species become stronger because the weak die off. As human beings, we have left this behind. We are capable of adjusting our enviroment to suit our wishes, so the not so fittest also survive.

You seem to want to blame God, ID, whatever you choose to call it, for mankind's screw ups. To me, that is like blaming the dad for giving junior a hockey stick for Christmas and the kid clubs a puppy to death. Bad dad or bad kid?

We as a species have been given the intelligence and the ability to do so much. We have been provided with all the raw materials to create anything we can imagine. In some cases, we have chosen to build hospitals to care for the sick. One of my company's accounts is with St. John of God. It is a school for "special" children and adults. We as a species have chosen to try to take care of these people and give them the extra help they need instead of allowing "nature" to take it's course.

And yet, we also choose to kill each other? "Why does God let these things happen?", some will often ask. It is the freedom to chose that we have been given. Maybe God simply gives us too much credit for being able to figure out right from wrong on our own? Or should I say making the choice of right over wrong?

Still, as "developed" as humans may be, we are still animals, with very basic animal instincts woven deeply into our genetics. Our preditory nature is just that, our nature. The type of symbiosis that you seem to look for would appear to be more along the lines of a socialistic symbiosis than that of a naturally driven one. Until the time comes when human preditory instict has faded away, such a social symbiosis will be impossible. Don't look for this to happen soon!

FSUWs and WMs are a social issue on a much smaller scale. As I have said, I see the biggest problem being the over-the-top expectations that both sides have for the other. And, I blame much of this on the propaganda spread by the various agency money machines. The agencies don't make any money from their successful pairings! They only make money from continued hope, and they do everything they can to fuel this fire.

Some sites feature thousands of beautiful women... some are even real! But, how many success stories do you see considering the number of girls featured? Educating WMs to the reality of what an FSUW really is, is easy compared to educating the FSUWs about the real WMs. The FSUWs are still quite isolated by the agencies. The language barrier is the agency's greatest ally, and they exploit it to the fullest.

It may only be after having a "real" meeting with several WMs that an FSUW actually gets to know what we are really like. "No malishka, I don't have a swimming pool!" But the agency tells her she can do better, so it's back to the agency to post new photos in her profile to attract the next batch of hopefuls who will spend money with the agency!

Here is classic preditory behavior. The agencies "feed" on the hopes... and money of the WM clients. I honestly don't see a change coming in this attitude in any big hurry!

Train returns

PeopleSmoks
08-02-2008, 03:44 PM
CONTENTMENT... Having a general satisfaction with one's own life and or situation.

A great many people are simply content with their present situation and see no need to change. Let's forget about noble intentions and altruistic thoughts for the moment. Mankind is made up of individuals, each having his or her own personal agenda. I am no different. My motivation for everything and anything I do is my own.

Like most people, I have no NEED to have a symbiotic relationship with the world. The emotional exchange I have with friends and family is enough... I'm satisfied... I'm content. However, like most people, I still feel a need for a coupling type of relationship and the exchange that goes with it. This is probably the greatest discontent in my life.

Motivation... This feeling of something I desire, but don't have, is motivation for me to seek such companionship. At present, I make my search via the FSU/MOB route, as do a good number of WMs. However, I try to make this search with eyes and mind open wide.

Contentment and motivation are two things you would need to figure out on mass to realize the kind of change you hope for. What would motivate a person to seek such change if he is content with his present situation?

Now, I will factor in POWER, noble intentions and altruism. In our world, it seems that it is more likely that those who "have not" are more inclined toward a desire for socialistic symbiosis than those who "have". Those who "have" are usually only interested in "more" for themselves. Forget nobilty and altruism!

Maybe you will find one of a million of the powerful who actually seems to give a sh!t about anything other than aquiring more power? I'll give you one that I can think of... former US President Jimmy Carter. But even his efforts are directed more toward those who might be able to afford the homes he helps build, but may be struggling to buy one without a little help. Still, he hasn't given up his personal millions and taken a vow of poverty!

So, how does one go about convincing the power brokers that social symbiosis is a good idea? Remember, these are the top preditors we are talking about, and let's face facts, there simply aren't enough Bolshevics to go around.

No my friend, the type of symbiosis that you seem to describe appears to be more along the lines of an experiment in socialism that will never happen so long as humans retain our basic preditory insticts. Evolution or mutation?




Train returns

swede
08-02-2008, 03:45 PM
Cit PeopleS:

"The purpose is very simple... survival of the fittest."

This is an old joke: "Survival of the fittest..... Who are the fittest?........Those who survive"

Cit PeopleS:

"You seem to want to blame God, ID, whatever you choose to call it, for mankind's screw ups."

Actually I was trying to make fun of humanity's endless inability to take responsibility for its own actions, but obviously I missed the mark.

Cit PeopleS:

"The type of symbiosis that you seem to look for would appear to be more along the lines of a socialistic symbiosis than that of a naturally driven one. Until the time comes when human preditory instict has faded away, such a social symbiosis will be impossible. Don't look for this to happen soon!"

I would hate to rely on a political system like socialism for creating a functional symbiosis, for the simple reason, that systems don't change people. Only people can change people (themselves). The alpha-male syndrome is evolutionary obsolete now, and is, quite in accordance with your own description of our abilities, actually counter-productive. The problem is ofcourse, that those who make most of our decisions, also are those suffering most strongly from the alpha-male syndrom.

Man, I'm the one who's gloomy, slightly depressed and tired from this. You're supposed to tell me: "Swede, don't take it so hard. Everything will be fine" instead of agreeing so wholeheartedly with me about the small chances of a betterment.

Concerning the WM/FSUW I believe we're saying more or less the same in different ways. Should we try to find workable solutions to the problem? I mean, I'm already into worldsaving activities at the present. One more or less wouldn't make so much difference.

PeopleSmoks
08-03-2008, 11:07 AM
Hey swede! Amongst the lower animals on this rock, survival of the fittest, or "natural selection" is normal. Yes, only the most cunning, fastest, strongest, and in some cases like peacocks and other birds, the most colorful who survive to pass their genes to a new generation.

A crippled preditor usual starves to death, unless it finds a crippled prey, but the odds are a healthy preditor has already found it. It is natures way of assuring that the species will remain strong. Nature weeds out the weak! Some other species may try to care for the sick, injured or alternately challenged within their group, but it rarely works out.

Survival of the fittest is all around us though, even in our civilized world. Tell me how many short, chubby, mentally challenged football players you can think of? American or european style football... bigger, faster, stronger!

Now, I don't prescribe to survival of the fittest as being the proper course for humans! I simply point out that it is the way it is in much of the animal kingdom and it has it's benefits within that realm. It is human compassion, combined with our ability (opposing thumbs help a lot) to care for the sick or challenged that make us different from lower animals. But, I do recall someone making this part of his openning statement to this thread...
quote:I believe, that we like all other animals fundamentally are biological robots. We have a digestive system with two openings, a need to reproduce and to fight for a place in a predatory system. That's our startingpoint.In many ways, it would seem that mankind hasn't gotten too far past the starting point? But, don't worry too much swede, everything will be okay... possibly... maybe... in a few hundred millenia or so??? Apparently evolution is a little slower than we had hoped. Or maybe it's over-rated all together? Look at a shark. Often described as "the perfect eating machine". They haven't evolved much at all in the past 30 million years, and seem to be doing pretty good for themselves![8D]

Train returns

swede
08-03-2008, 04:06 PM
Cit PeopleS:

"But, don't worry too much swede, everything will be okay... possibly... maybe... in a few hundred millenia or so???"

Thanks my friend, I knew I could rely on you. I feel much more optimistic now.

I stil stand by my original statement about our fundamental animal'ness. What I'm hoping is, that we can grow out of this quick, because whereas the other animals do have their fights, sometimes vicious, they are not in a position to blow up the whole planet.

One way or another, we simply have to get our primitive instincts up to the level of our effective intellects. It's not a good situation to having children in a sandbox playing with ABC weapon.

In any case both you and I believe in responsibility, and that it helps to DO something. That's f.ex why we're here at this forum. Which I would like to believe HAS helped somewhat in the scamscene (ofcourse together with other dedicated persons).

And I also know, that a real big problem, like mankind's occasional reptilebrain behaviour is a tough one. But we all have one little drop of responsibility in the big sea of human life. And the sheepwalkers will walk happily into any idiocy their leaders invent, and mostly the leaders make very peculiar decisions. So who's left?

PeopleSmoks
08-04-2008, 07:15 PM
Hey swede!
quote:One way or another, we simply have to get our primitive instincts up to the level of our effective intellects. It's not a good situation to having children in a sandbox playing with ABC weapon.And herein lies the big problem!!! Hey, I like George W, but let's be perfectly honest... he's not the brightest bulb on the tree, yet since the break up of the Soviet Union, he controls the biggest nuclear arsenal on the planet. I'm not one hundred percent sure, but I think the US is the only sigle country that still has the capability to exterminate life on earth... except for the cockroaches of course. Russia may be capable, but I'm not certain?

But, the US and Russia have been playing that game long enough to understand that there is not going to be a winner in such a conflict. In come the petty-dictators like Kim Jong-Il in North Korea. Definitely not the type of person anyone wants to have his finger anywhere near that kind of button. This guy should be in a rubber room playing with stuffed animals!

At least with Il, North Korea doesn't have the abilty to destroy the world, although they can certainly make one heck of a mess, and there is a retaliatory point of origin. The aquisition of nukes by terrorist groups is the biggest concern we should all have. Seven years and we still haven't found Bin Laden! What? Do we nuke half of Turkey because someone told a guy who mentioned to another guy that a friend of his wife's brother's second cousin twice removed thought he heard a story that Bin Laden was hiding there in the mountains?

So this brings another thing I touched on previously, back to the surface. The comprehension of right versus wrong. I've read that Bin Laden is a relatively intelligent individual, yet we see the path he has chosen. Bad parents or bad kid???[8D]

Train returns

swede
08-05-2008, 11:38 AM
Hi PeopleS,

I think we're touching the essentials now. What are the mechanisms of the predatory, reptile behaviour and is it possible to do anything at all about it. Since my last post I've spent some time thinking about it, and I believe I have some observations.

Our intellectual achievements are to a high degree transferred. No-one is born with a ready language, reading, writing and math, and all the other things necessary for the present western civilisation. We simply have to spend a considerable part of our youth to pick up on former generations accumulated knowledge. While our intellectual capacity is big, it's still a learning process, when it comes to the point.

In spite of all the shortcomings of the reptile brain, I believe it's possible to use a similar process there. And I've found an example, which is very realistic. In a lot of systems, people go through a process of learning to control the instinctive predatory impulses. Take buddhism f.ex. (and remember, that buddhism is more like a philosphy than a religion). As the aim of buddhists is to find an existential clarity, hopefully leading to 'reality', they are taught and trained to observe and later control predatory instincts. And in the cases, where such selfunderstanding and -discipline are acchieved, a better balance between reptile behaviour and intellect is also acchieved. You don't have to be a Buddha to get to such a level.

Now I don't want to propagate for buddhism, or alternatively for 'education of the masses' (which often is a disguise for brainwashing), only to draw attention the possibility of bringing our predatory instincts under better control. This could be done along lines of western philosophy, science and humanitarian ideals.

Amongst the other animal-species on this planet, an alpha (fe)male fight usually stops, when one part is defeated. Amongst humans such a functional attitude is less common. A human alpha male will take enormous risks of destruction (including not only himself, but also all of his flock) from sheer machismo. A female equalent probably exists: Fechismo maybe? And this is definitely counterproductive.

This goes through all levels of life. To take an example from the central theme here. When I finished my UA relationship, I offered this woman two choices. She could either, without making it legally binding in any way, admit to me, that she'd been scamming me (which we both knew she had), or else........

She chose 'or else....', something which later partly destroyed her scamming career. A simple admittance of her less than correct behaviour was too much for her. She wanted to defend her own lie, at a very high price.

The problem is to find the corner of human activities, where such a selfdestructive, counterproductive and totally irrational behaviour can be changed. I believe, that I'm starting to see a pattern in this somewhere, a small hope for doing something constructive, instead of leaning back and waiting for an Armageddon, which may or may not come.

PeopleSmoks
08-07-2008, 01:56 PM
Hey swede! I'll start by saying that today sucks a hairy moose nut!!! I broke my friggin' toe this morning and I really wanted to go to work today! It's a union rate job I was supposed to do at twice my regular pay... and my regular pay isn't bad to begin with. Sucks to be me!!!!!
quote:Our intellectual achievements are to a high degree transferred. No-one is born with a ready language, reading, writing and math, and all the other things necessary for the present western civilisation. We simply have to spend a considerable part of our youth to pick up on former generations accumulated knowledge. While our intellectual capacity is big, it's still a learning process, when it comes to the point.Yes and no... Communication skills are something that is instictive. A particular language is merely a matter of specifics. But even more is the ability to expand on hand-me-down teachings and CREATE something new.

I have said that the desire for bigger, better, stronger, prettier, more, is instinctive. But, the ability to create these things is what goes beyond the basic insticts of man. I don't see pure intellect as man's defining attribute, but rather his ability to ascend to acheive the dream he has put before himself.

Hey, maybe someday, someone will ascend to a level of thought, intelligence and/or reasoning to actually realize the dream that you are having today? It's not just learning and relearning that which has been done before, but expanding and adding to it that may save mankind in the end?
quote:Now I don't want to propagate for buddhism, or alternatively for 'education of the masses' (which often is a disguise for brainwashing), only to draw attention the possibility of bringing our predatory instincts under better control. This could be done along lines of western philosophy, science and humanitarian ideals.Again, the only issue here is how do you get the reptile brained power brokers to allow this? The true genius who will start the process of saving mankind is the one who is able to make the power mongers believe he is doing something for their benefit![8D]

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swede
08-07-2008, 07:02 PM
Hi PeopleS,

sorry to hear about your toe (which probably means a part of your body, and not your 'Theory Of Everything'). That'll be a week or two without moving too much around. But you could get one of the Olgas to drive you in a wheelchair, if you still have any Olgas left. What with rising foodprices and the dollar going down, they must be a burden.

Cit PeopleS:

"Yes and no... Communication skills are something that is instictive. A particular language is merely a matter of specifics. But even more is the ability to expand on hand-me-down teachings and CREATE something new."

Yes, I understand this to mean, that language is kind of natural for us to learn. But what about math and the hard sciences. Even if we have some enormous braincapacity, I doubt if we have a special instinct for math etc. I used to be a mathteacher in my youth, while I still lived in Denmark, and it was sometimes impossible to get the simplest idea of math into some of the kids (who otherwise were quite bright). That's completely acquired knowledge.

So it should be possible to add knowledge to the reptile-brain also, though in a much smaller amount.

I'm afraid, that your argument that the powerbrokers won't like such a scheme is correct. In Europe, where the terroristscare isn't quite as big as in the states, our alpha (fe)males have started their own 'bad guys' are here again campaign. Ivan has been taken out of the wardrobe and the mothballs shaken off, and now he's out to get us again.

Everybody is quite surprised about this, not least the russians themselves, and besides they are already beeb'ed off because the swedish authorities now legally can listen to all russian web- and telphonetraffic going through Sweden, that's 80% of the russian traffic. So having a russian girlfriend makes you a little more suspect nowadays. And with three Olgas in the house, you'll be triple suspect and end up in a detentioncamp. And THEN, but not before, you'll think: Why didn't I listen to Swede?

PeopleSmoks
08-09-2008, 11:31 AM
Hey swede! All of my three Olgas, spectacular nerts and all, are quite in tact and doing well thanks. My foot is a bit swollen and discolored from the internal bleeding that goes along with a broken bone, but I was able to get a sock on it and attend my company's quarterly meeting yesterday. I can walk on it, and if I can get a work boot on, I plan to try to go to work on Monday.

Even basic math skills are somewhat natural. Think fingers and toes my friend! My most perfect example of communication being basic is my trip to Lugansk and the fact that I didn't starve. I spoke no Russian and the grocery manager spoke no English, yet we did manage to communicate and I ate.

Yes, the more advanced subjects require a certain level of teaching to be invovled, but information being passed down from one generation to the next is a natural occurrence to me. Many animals pass down information from generation to generation.

Preditory hunting skills are not part of the lion's basic instincts. Sure, hunting is instinctive, but not the skill of stalking and taking an attack angle that gives the lion the ability to get close enough to a much faster prey and catch it. So teaching and learning are basic and natural in that respect.

But, as I have said, it is the human ability to expand on what we are taught that makes us different. Oppenheimer's father new nothing of nuclear physics! Neither did his science teacher in grade school, at least not in practical application! So who taught him how to create a nuclear chain reation? It was his ability to reason and expand on passed learning that made it possible. So, yes, the human mind is capable of going further than today's knowledge, and hopefully today's "reptile brained" limitations.

It's a bit of a surprise that the Europeans are dusting off the "Ivan the Terrible" mantra. But, if there is no bad guy to compare themselves with, even an imaginary one, it starts to become visible just how screwed up our "hero" politicians are! I can understand it though. Russia is still not as open about everything as some would like, but Putin put Russia's needs first and if that meant pissing off europeans, he didn't care. The country is growing stronger again, and although I can't see Russia trying to retake half of Europe again, I can see how this can be used as a fear tactic.

FEAR!!!!!!!!!! One of the most basic and primal of all emotions!!!!!

Thanks for the heads-up about those devious Swedes monitoring my e-mail. Nothing against Sweden, but I personally would have to place the Swedish secret police coming for me and my three Olgas near the bottom of my list of things to worry about today.[:o)][8D]

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swede
08-09-2008, 03:38 PM
Hi PeopleS,

I must admit, that I've been rather gloomy lately, what with Ivans lurking around every corner, and out coming totalitarian alphas trying to save me from them.

So I want to take a more optimistic outlook, and would like to ask your advice. I've heard (rumours get even as far as Sweden) that your crime-fighting career started as an apprentice in Gotham city, just after Robin went out as a journeyman. And that you found the Olgas, alone and bewildered, at the bottom of an empty swimmingpool, hiding under a pile of zirconium jewelry. Right?

You see, I want to change direction in life, and as I can't fight the powermongers, I can at least fight normal criminals.

Admittedly I've passed 60, but modern times being what they are, I believe that even homes for the elderly contains a lot of mobbing and scamming, residents against residents, residents against employees, everybody against everybody actually.

So what do you think? This is an opening towards a new and meaningful life for me, or is it too late? And I'm not doing this only inspired by the thought of one day finding my own bunch of Olgas, f.ex. huddling in a sewage system, but by far loftier and nobler motives of making this a better world.

I could even come to your city and start training under you, now your toe is incapacitating you. I am a person of small expectations and would gladly accept only one wing of your manorhouse as my humble dwelling.

PeopleSmoks
08-10-2008, 02:40 PM
Hey swede! I can fully understand your gloom. The possibilty of having a Boris hiding under your bed is a scary though that could twist up any intellect! Thank God... or the Intelligent Design guy... or even David Hasselhoff, that you have those reptile-brained saviors to protect you!!!

Why David Hasselhoff??? Well, he's popular in Germany and Sweden isn't that far from Germany, so I just threw it out there!

Actually swede, I know the Batman, and we've partied together, but no, I wasn't the guy that took over for Dick Grayson. Remind me to tell you about the time the Bat, Green Hornet and I hooked up with those three strippers from Metropolis![:0][:p]:D

As for my three Olgas, I won them in... A DRINKING GAME!!! I bet a Russian sex-slave trader that I could drink more of Russia's finest than he could of America's best hooch. He pulled out a bottle of some swill vodka and I presented him with Everclear corn liquor. Okay, the vodka was a solid 100 proof, but Everclear is 190 proof with a few proof to spare!!!

The sex-slave trader is now blind and has lost about 75 IQ points since that encounter, and I have my Olgas!

You see, fighting power-mongers takes a special knack. A few thoughts come to mind. One is ninja school, another is sniper school, and then's there is always explosives! But, to combat average evil, the ability to consume mass quantities of alcohol, just may surfice for you, as it has for me.[^]

Now, 60 isn't so old! But, you may find it good practice to take on the criminal masterminds in the rest homes as a tune up for the more treacherous criminals that may await you.

As for finding Olgas in a sewer system, I think I might avoid that. First of all, I really don't see much benefit to mankind from a superhero going into a sewer, and well, it's really hard to get the sewer smell out of an Olga, especially if she's been down there for a while!

swede, you will always be welcome to make a guest appearance here at "Stately Smks Manor"![8D]



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swede
08-11-2008, 06:28 AM
Cit PeopleS:

"You see, fighting power-mongers takes a special knack. A few thoughts come to mind. One is ninja school, another is sniper school, and then's there is always explosives! But, to combat average evil, the ability to consume mass quantities of alcohol, just may surfice for you, as it has for me."

Being soft and spoiled from living in Scandinavia, I've always lived in the illusion, that the pen is mightier than the sword (at least if you have a decent pen-sharpener). But this is propaganda spread by those in charge of machinegun-possession to avoid actual competion in the power-grabbing area. Now it's probably to late for me to change my ways, both in the department of personal convictions or by becoming a ninja (though the dress looks very coooool).

In my dumb-blonde fantasy, I had dreamed about learning some mental technique, where I just look sternly at the bad guy, and he will go the to nearest monastery to seek enlightenment. This is along the line of also believing in people wanting a better world, but I've discovered, that the bastards are contend with wars, poverty, crime and illness. At least as long as it happens to someone else. When it happens to themselves, it's usually to late.

The idea of world-improvement through alcohol appeals much more to me, but there's a problem here. While the world possibly will be better this way, my liver and kidneys won't (they are not factory fresh any more, and the guarantee has run out long time ago). I'm not sure, I'm that noble and unselfish, that I'll drink all mankind's shortcomings away.

I have to disagree with you concerning sewer-Olgas. Considering the special psychology inherent in Olgas, it shouldn't be such a big problem to soak them in the swimmingpool a week or so. That ought to take the smell away.

What would you know about being 60+, sonny. You ever tried it?

PeopleSmoks
08-11-2008, 07:13 PM
quote:The idea of world-improvement through alcohol appeals much more to me, but there's a problem here. While the world possibly will be better this way, my liver and kidneys won't (they are not factory fresh any more, and the guarantee has run out long time ago).Hey swede, two words... LIVER TRANSPLANT!!!!!!!!!!!

Change what you can... except what you can't... and learn to understand the difference...

It may sound like a defeatist's attitude at first, but it is a matter of self sanity. You're only one voice. Speak to those you can reach. It's up to them to listen or not. For you to "pound" your thoughts into the head of another would make you no better than the "reptile-brains" you are fighting against!

Be honest with me my friend. If you were a trillionaire, euros, not USD, would you give away every last dime you had to the poor? Or would you give a lot, but keep enough to remain comfortable and ensure the comfort of your progeny???

Now, as for sewer Olgas, not worth the effort. Trust me, they're quite plentiful if you look under the leaves in the fields on an Olga farm, found all over the FSU. Just rinse one off and you're good to go![:0]:D[:p][:o)][8D]

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swede
08-12-2008, 02:04 PM
Cit PeopleS:

"Be honest with me my friend. If you were a trillionaire, euros, not USD, would you give away every last dime you had to the poor? Or would you give a lot, but keep enough to remain comfortable and ensure the comfort of your progeny???"

Some 20 years ago, I got my hands (completely legally) on a nice little pile (in todays money maybe $400.000). 50% went directly to charity. So I'm making 'arrangements' in my life, by keeping something back for the reptile part of me. But then I never was a christian, and 50% charity is better than nothing.

But generally, my injun mentor, I listen to you, you are a good cleaner of mental cobwebs.

And as far as badgers are able to express any positive or approving attitudes in life, great-grandfather badger seems to appreciate what you're saying, and he has also small hopes for me.

PeopleSmoks
08-12-2008, 06:05 PM
Hey swede! $400,000 isn't really that much by today's standards here in the US... at least not when scaled against the salaries of some corporate executives who spend that flying to Brazil to take their clients to brunch!!!

But it does show a generosity in you! 50%??? A tidy sum to be sure! Honestly, I would personally be inclined to use that kind of cash to help out my parents (kind of a pay-back for not taking the abortion option, or my dad not actually shooting me when he had the chance), but would probably hoard the rest, giving a much smaller amount to some charity that may actually use the money for what they represent as opposed to excessive administrative costs!

Yes, we all have that sense of self-preservation that is very basic and instinctive and in today's world, money means self-preservation to some extent.

99.9% of all people will look to secure their own personal security before all other nobilities. From there, they may tend to think about needy family and personal friends before turning their financial windfalls further outward. It seems fairly normal to me to behave this way.

All noble intentions aside, how can a homeless man, sleeping in a cardboard box with newspaper sheets save the world?

It may sound very cold hearted, but I'm one of those people who think the US should take every dime we send out in foreign aid world wide, cut it off, and look to raise up our own poor for one or two years and get them on their feet, then look to go back to helping the rest of the world... or bombing it??? We could use the money to build a wall between Texas and Mexico!!!

Okay, I know... That last part was so wrong on so many levels!!![B)]

Great-grandfather badger can have hope for you, me, and all of mankind, but he'll also need some patience... especially for the terminally "reptile-brained". The world may have to wait for them to die off because changing them is probably a lost cause.

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swede
08-15-2008, 06:28 AM
Hi PeopleS,

what we generally are talking about now (worldsaving, egotism etc), has recently become a worry for me, as you without doubt have noticed. I still have my ideals intact, but I can see, that humanity is too stoopid to function even reasonably well. As you say, the reptile-part is too strong still, and I wonder how the beeb f.ex. the founding fathers of US ever got away with the quite good constitution, I believe you have (not that it's much respected nowadays, but still).

The world is supposed to go down with clockwork regularity, the present bid is 2012; but this time I feel, there must be something about it (maybe not 2012 though). Nothing will survive a third worldwar, and it'll only take ONE crazie to start it. All the superpowers may play with chestswelling and showing backsides, knowing that it satisfies their own machismo and the public theater, but knowing that it's only for show.

But there's always that one guy, with bad pottytraining or a really inflated ego, who'll have a button to press. And then the fireworks will start everywhere, without any hidingplaces. And for what, zirconium jewelry and DVD players? But I'll just have to grow up, and accept 'reality'. Double beeb.

By the way, I have sympathy for your ideas of how to 'help' or not help other countries/cultures. Here we did it by accepting a very big immigration quote, with an administrative background insufficient to integrate the immigrants (there are no jobs for them, religious and other cultural conflicts have arosen etc), and I am considered slightly 'fascistic' because of my criticism about this. This may look strange in view of my other opinions, but the thing is, that the money I gave away, was MY money. If I had wanted to make an orphanage for hybrids between Olgas and penguins (I'm sure nobody would want them), it would be my business.

And in any case most of the 'help' given is only so much political manipulation.

I believe, that I've been grovelling enough in such subjects, and yesterday I formulated a question, which is closer to home on this forum than messias-complexes. Every time I look at an american crime movie (even the supposedly 'funny' ones), there's this scene from a bar, where skinny (rather anorectic), unattractive women with a look of terminal boredom do their things with the pole. And a group of starved men with calls and whistlings makes up the background.

Can't say I'm an expert, but I would guess, that you would only find such 'live show' places in really big cities here in Scandinavia, and then even scarce. And a man behaving this way, would be considered slightly moronic. So is my movie-based information an expression of something real? It would show a lot about the mating/dating problems of US, if it is.

PeopleSmoks
08-17-2008, 11:53 AM
Hey swede! I have to say that the "founding fathers" weren't THAT wonderful, although the US Constitution IS a very interesting document. But, "all men are created equal" only applied to white MEN of European decent and the new aristocrats of the land.

I wouldn't worry too much about the total annihilation of life on earth happenning any time soon. I like to believe that despite their reptilian dispositions, leaders of countries that have such capability have come to fully understand that there would be NO WINNER in such stupidity.

Kim Jong-Il is the closest to a "kill the world" mentality, but he doesn't have nearly enough nukes to do it. Radical terrorist groups would love to try it, I'm sure, but don't have the means.

I want to go off on a little ramble about one of my favorite movies. You have to check out "Team America... World Police"! It was done with marionettes and is funny as hell!!! It makes fun of everything that is wrong with world politics, terrorism, the US, the UN... actors!

In one scene, UN arms inspector Hans Blix tells Kim Jong-Il, "Let me inspect your whole palace... or else." Il responds, "Or else what?" In a very firm tone, Blix answers, "Or else, we will be very very angry with you... and we will write you a letter telling you how angry we are." Well, that's definitely the UN for you!

Immigration is an issue for the US, and has been for a long time. Our biggest problem is that the US was founded by immigrants from europe! So, how does the government close the doors? We also don't have enough jobs to go around, and the increasing strain on our socialist programs has become a financial money-pit.

Go-go bars, or strip clubs!!! The favorite pass time of the American male! Go watch a pretty girl do things that your fat lazy wife or girlfriend won't do!!! Unless, you make the mistake of taking one home with you and living with the dirty little heroin junkie wh@re for seven plus years like someone we know![B)]

I've worked in a few of these places in the past... No I wasn't a dancer! I don't know what you saw in the movies, but these places can be anything from a corner bar to an elaborate nightclub. Girls range from drop dead gorgeous to girls that great grandfather badger would run away from! But, yea, most are bored to death.[xx(]




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PeopleSmoks
08-21-2008, 10:49 PM
Hey swede! A suppliment to the go-go bar thing, that ties into the FSU/MOB thing, FSU immigration to the US, etc...

There is a go-go bar about 40 or 50 km from where I live, that is full of Olgas!!! I think Boris runs the place? Not sure??? FSU/MOBs that got their green card, divorced their American husbands and found out that you need to be married longer than two months before you get half of the guy's stuff?

Or victims of Russian mob sex-slave trafficing?

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swede
08-22-2008, 10:35 AM
Hi PeopleS,

sorry about the silence, but soon-to-be ex-wifey is here and it's been a time of activity. But we get along nicely now that we know, that we don't have to spend all the rest of our lives glued together, but only live 'in sin'.

Maybe that's the proper way to relate to a FSUW.

I'll be back in a few days with one of my unending lectures on how I want things to look. Have been somewhere else in the web and collected material.

PeopleSmoks
08-22-2008, 03:29 PM
Hey swede! Just don't let her throw her "SPECIAL YUM-YUM PLACE" in your face and use that to sucker you into something stupid... like buying her a swimming pool as a parting gift!!![:0]

Also, don't use any links to other websites when you share your info. I made a post using a link to a "dating" site that had some pretty interesting info about a "survey" of FSUWs and what they were looking for in a prospective mate, broken down by general age groups (18 to 24, 25 to 30, etc...) that I wanted to share with anyone else who still actually bothers with these forums, but the posting was censored out of existence... presumably because of the link I used?

[b]BURN THE BOOKS AND SCREW THE CONTENT!!!!!

Train returns

PeopleSmoks
08-23-2008, 03:34 PM
Hey to anyone who gives a 'beep' about these forums anymore!!! I tried posting this info in a new thread using a link, but the entire thing was blipped into non-existense by our friendly Stalin-like, overtly censoring hosts?

I'm not sure what direction the admin is planning for this forum, but considering the number of active threads, and active participants here, I would say extinction isn't too far around the corner.[V]

I wonder what country this site and this forum is based in? It can't be based in the US! We have a neat thing that we like to call "freedom of speech"!!! Okay, people aren't allowed to yell "FIRE" in crowded public places, unless of course there actually IS a fire, or make death threats to people, but aside from that there aren't too many restrictions regarding what a person can say.

It's understandable that the admin may wish to "protect" us half brain-dead FSU/MOB skirt chasing dullards from the vultures that are circling, but I personally like to think that we are all pretty well capable of figuring things out for ourselves... eventually.

I commented before about the excessive censorship that's going on here when posts by some guy named David popped up all over the place, on threads that had been inactive for months. It was pretty clear that the guy was advertising a website for some agency based in Poltava, UA, as each of his posts had a snappy little catch phrase and a link to the site.

Instead of commenting on David's posts as I chose to do, the admin simply removed the link. I had a chance to check out the site before the admin could "save me from myself". It was no big deal.

Heck admin, have a standard disclaimer ready for links! "The admin at Stop-scammers is not affiliated with, and doesn't recommend the use of the website that this link takes you to." Make a comment about it!!! But unless it's a link to an internet porn site, or something along those lines, I see no real reason to censor it.

Upon my return from my self-imposed "exile from these pages, I found that a great amount of posts had been removed. Was this a system error, or just a mass censoring of topics?

We are no longer able to post pics. We are on the road to not being able to post links. We are all on our way to finding another place to share our thoughts and questions and comments!

Well, here's the info that I originally tried to post through the use of a link.... It's kind of long. That's why I tried to use a link before...

We did a survey of Ukrainian women to help get an accurate answer on the common things that these women like, don't like, the qualities they look for in a man, how many children they think is the right number for a family, what they like about Ukraine, what they don't like about Ukraine. Inside views of how they would like their family to be, how they dress, the values they were raised with, the life style that nearly all of them grew up with, their average education level, how they differ from American women. These answers came from women in three different age groups 18-24, 25-35 and 36-45. It is impossible to write about how each woman will be, so we tried to come up with a description of the "Average Ukrainian woman". We hope that this will help you in your relations and increase your understanding of these special women.

In general the women there are more feminine than American women. Their society is male dominated and the women are used to the man being the stronger sex and the head of the family. Most of the women believe that the man should be the leader in the family, who is not afraid to make decisions for the family. They don't have much money, but they try to dress and look their best to be noticed by the men. The men there have gotten accustomed to all the beautiful women everywhere and it is hard to impress them. The attitude of the Ukrainian men to the women has also shaped the women's behavior in other ways. The low salaries, unstable economy, and the way of life that was inherited from the Soviet Union, force the women to work as much as her husband and to be as strong as he is in all aspects of life, to take care of the family, do all the necessary house work and at the same time to be good in her work. It is common in the evening when people are returning home from their work to see the women carrying big bags with food and necessary things for the house, at the same time the men on the streets will just be carrying a briefcase or maybe a bottle of beer.

The women who are seeking a foreign husband are like any other human looking for a better life. They want to be able to be a woman, not some sort of machine - working, washing, cooking, cleaning, bringing..... They dream of a man who is a gentleman and they also search for respect, passion and at the same time a little independence. Ukrainian women like to feel the attention of the man, to feel that she is necessary, that she is loved. Tenderness, flowers, some presents - this is the sure way to win the heart of a Ukrainian woman! A major fault of Ukrainian men is impoliteness, therefore politeness and you being a gentleman will bring a desirable result.

In Ukraine, the vast majority of these women are either graduates of the University or are in school working to complete their degree. The school that she went to started when she was 6 or 7 and she graduated high school after 10 years of study. Then she went to a University or Technical school to complete her specialized study. When you are starting your relationship with one of these women, it is usually best to have about the same amount of education or more than she has. If you are a high school graduate that is a skilled worker, this will qualify as higher education to her. It is good to list your education level in your ad.

It is harder in Ukraine than it is in the US to get a job using your degree in your profession. There are educated people working in jobs that they are much more qualified for because they cannot find work in their specialty and are forced to take other jobs to provide for themselves and to help their family. She is used to working and a lot of them would like to work and have a career in the West too. Ukrainian women are taught in their families the importance of traditional values and usually the family is more important to her than her career. Nearly all of the women want to have children if she does not already have one or two. Most of them believe that two children is the right number for a family.

These women are usually stronger emotionally than their American counterpart. They have grown up in an insecure financial environment where anything can and does happen, and it is often bad! They have had many disappointments in their life, but still keep going each day. There is widespread dislike and distrust of the government and of banks by the Ukrainian people. Do not worry, it is a stable and safe place to visit. These women do a lot of walking because most families don't own a car. They live where the very cold, cloudy winters that last longer than most of us are accustomed to. Still they always manage to dress nicely, they take pride in their appearance and the way they present themselves.

Ukrainian women are used to the way Ukrainian men look and most picture their husband to look a certain way. So what does the average Ukrainian man look like? He is white, conservative looking: short hair, well dressed, very few men have beards. What really matters most to them is what is on the inside.

In Ukraine, it is common for women to be conservative about sex in the beginning of the relationship. Even though you have gotten along great in your letters and phone calls, when you meet her, take it slow and see how she responds.

They are conservative in their beliefs and very thrifty. People in Ukraine never had very much in material possession and since the collapse of the Soviet Union the life standard in general went down. In Ukraine the percentage of the population that is wealthy is small, there is a small middle class but most of the population is generally in two categories: the poor and the very poor. Life in Ukraine was very hard after the collapse of the USSR. Ukraine was given its Independence but was just turned out on its own. The Ukrainian State started from a condition of serious decline in infrastructures and standards of living at the end of the USSR. At first, the majority of the industries were not able to work in the rules of the market economy. They were not profitable and unemployment increased rapidly. This caused people to look abroad for work. This was the start of the labor migration.

Now the level of living standards continue to rise in this Capital city, the private business is starting to flourish. The conditions in the rest of Ukraine are not as good and the level of labor migration is still very high. It is the only way for the majority of the people to earn enough money to live. Therefore, there are many women looking for foreign husbands as an alternative to the kind of life they are sure to have in Ukraine: a lack of money, rather hard work, all of the house work, alcoholism of the husband is very common in Ukraine and at the end, a very low pension when you retire.

The positive effects of the Soviet collapse are the people gained many freedoms that were not allowed before. The people in Ukraine are mostly happy to have their independence and to be a free from Russian control. The possibilities for the future in Ukraine are brighter. They are working in the world markets and welcome the Western Countries industry, ideas, products, lifestyle and foreign visitors. In Kiev everything is available to those with money. Many families do not own a car. It is unlikely you will find a woman who knows how to drive, she has never had the opportunity.The Soviet traditional values are still predominately common. The people are orderly, friendly, honest, respectful, and with strong family bonds. The people in Kiev are very friendly to Americans.

In Kiev they measure their apartments by the number of rooms, not number of bedrooms. Most have one or two room apartments some may be lucky and have three rooms. In many cases the children continue to live with their parents well past when they are grown up. Very few of the women you will write to can afford their own apartment, even working full time. Do not feel sorry for her because if you do, and you have a good woman, she will not like it, in most cases, and will not be impressed with your pity, it may also make her feel bad about herself or hurt her honor.

It is very important that you demonstrate to her that you are a reliable person. In your letters show her that she can count on you to do what you say you will do. If you are going to call her at a certain time and you always do, if you tell her that you are going to visit and give her a date and you show up, she will really know you are serious. She will love these things and it goes along way toward earning her trust and belief in you. A good woman will not leave her family, friends and country with you unless she trusts and believes in you. These women are looking for husbands, not pen pals, if you just want to write, find someone else to write to. Please do not waste her time and emotions.

When first starting a relationship with one of these women most of them will ask you something like: Why do you look for a Russian wife and not an American wife? or Why can't you find an American wife? For many of these women it is hard to understand why a man would go so far from his home to find a wife. She is used to the Ukrainian men who many of them choose not to make a commitment to a woman and there are so many available women that they do not think that she is special. Many Russian men do not treat a woman like she is special. She may also be asking this question because she is wondering why an American woman would not want to have a relationship with you. Of course there are many answers that will satisfy her. She will want to believe in you and she hopes that you will always be honest with her. It will make her feel special and help her to believe in you. Another real plus is that she will have already seen your photo and read your ad and will have an interest in you from the start.

Now we will go into the specific age groups there are a few differences due to age, political beliefs, and to the amount of life experience she has had. These are the answers from our surveys. One thing you can rely on is that many qualities of women are the same around the world. The main differences you encounter are in the culture, upbringing and other environmental influences that she has been exposed to throughout her life.


18-24 YEARS OLD

With the fall of the USSR a new generation of women was created. Those who are now in this age range differ a lot from those who were growing up under the rule of the USSR. The changes started with Gorbachov becoming the General Secretary of the USSR and the Iron Curtain began to open. The formation of this generation was based with much more western influence (European and American standards). By the time Ukraine gained its independence in 1991, they have had access to many of the same things that we enjoy. American and European popular Movies and TV programs - most translated into Russian. The borders opened and a lot of the Ukrainian people received the possibility to travel to other countries or to learn from the foreigners who now come to Ukraine. They look at their country as part of Europe, not so much as they look at it as part of the old Soviet Union. Many will look for a job or to study abroad. They do not think just within the limits of their own country, but of the whole world. You will find many eager and very eligible women in this age group that would be happy to be lucky enough to find a good foreign husband. These women have beauty and knowledge of foreign languages, English is the most popular. What they desire, is to have a better life than their parents do.

Nearly all of the women in this age group are either going to secondary school or have finished with her higher education. They need this to find a well-paid job there, so they study hard. They start work and they soon realize that some of them can make more money than her parents, they have wider opportunities, and this gives them the possibility to believe in themselves. Most of the women in this age group have not been married yet and do not have children. For 75% of these women it is important that her man have a good education. 25% did not think that education of her man was an important factor. The age of the man that they think is the best age for them is consistently higher than their own age. In general they search for men that are in the range of 30-35 years old. These women are also in an age where their beliefs and values are subject to change more than an older woman. This may have an effect on future relations with her. About 1/2 of these women like men with longer hair the other 1/2 don't like men with long hair. 8 out of 10 of them said that they do not like the way a man looks with a beard. The vast majority said that they would only consider relations with a man that is white.

If they were to leave their country, they would miss most, in Ukraine, their family and friends and their native land. What they like the most about Ukraine is nature, the people, and their country's traditions. What they dislike most about Ukraine is the government and its politics and the poor economic situation that Ukraine is in now. Almost all of these women want to have children and believe that the right number of children in the family is two. About 70% of the 18 - 24 year old women say that the man should be the head of the family and should lead the family. About 25% believe that the relationship should be more of a partnership with the husband and that both should be responsible for the decisions in the family. A very small minority of about 5% think that they should be the head of the family. In this group two out of three think that life is better in Ukraine now than it was when ruled by the USSR. The reasons they gave for this included Increased freedom, more opportunity, the chance to travel and the freedom of choice. No one says what you must do and what you must believe since the collapse of Communism. The other one of three think that Ukraine was better under Communism, the reasons they cited were unstable economic situation, an increase in crime and now there is a very large class difference.

To the women in this age group the most important qualities they desire in a man are:

1. Intelligence - If you are a professional with a degree, they really like this but it is not necessary for a lot of these women. It can be what your profession is, the way you present yourself in your letters, your ideas that are clever, things that you have accomplished in your life.

2. Courage - This does not mean that you are a warrior but it is more that she can count on you to make decisions for the family, that she can feel secure with you, and that she can believe in you and trust in your judgment.

3. Kindness - Most like people that are good to them and are good to the others around them.

4. Reliability - In your letters show her that she can count on you to do what you say you will do. If you are going to call her at a certain time and you always do, if you tell her that you are going to visit and give her a date and you show up, she will know you are serious. She will love these things and it goes along way toward earning her trust and belief in you. A good woman will not leave her family, friends and country with you unless she trusts and believes in you.

5. Honesty

6. Passion - They can be a bit shyer than an American woman when you first meet with them. But it is easy to continue to develop relations with them and once you are in an intimate relationship they are very good and devoted lovers!

The qualities they do not like in a man:

1.stupidity; 2.insolence; 3.self-admiration; 4.dishonesty; 5.arrogance; 6.greed; 7.unreliability.


25-35 YEARS OLD

The women in this age range are in the working generation. They were still young when the Soviet Union was dissolved and have grown up in the early days of Ukrainian Independence. Their personalities have fully formed, they may be a bit more realistic and devoted for the long term than some of the younger women. They are not as much dreaming of "Their Prince" as the younger women, but they are not as disillusioned as the older women. Women of this age group are experienced and are generally optimistic. They are still looking for new opportunities and almost all of them have a desire to see the world. They are accustomed to understanding their place in the world community and do not have negative views of the West. They are open to new experiences, to new changes in life. Most of them know or are learning a foreign language, English is again the most popular. These women realize more about life and what they want from it, than the women in the younger age group.

Many of the women have been married by this time. About 30% of these women have not been married yet. There are others that have been divorced. Some of these women will have a child. They are usually eager to have a man that will accept her and be a good father to her child. It is harder to find a husband in Ukraine for a woman that has a child. The Russian men are not known for accepting these children as his own and treating them as well as he would his own. There is a strong motivation for her to find a home where her child will have more opportunity. One of the best ways into these women's hearts is to treat her and her child well and with love and respect. Most of these women are graduates and have finished with her higher education. 60% said that they would like to have a man that has a higher education, 40% said that it was not important to her if her husband had a higher education. About 1/2 said that the appearance of her husband was something that she considered and the other 1/2 did not think that a man's appearance was important to her. 1/2 of these women said that they like the way a man looks with a beard or mustache. The other 1/2 did not liked how men look with them. 2/3 said that they did not like men with long hair and 1/3 did like men with long hair. Again, most of these women said that they would only consider a man that is white to be her husband.

Here is what they said that they liked the most about Ukraine 1.the people; 2.nature; 3.language; 4.Ukrainian traditions. What they said that they liked the least about Ukraine is 1.government corruption; 2.poor economy; 3.lack of unity between the people; 4.the ecology in Ukraine; 5.lazy people. What these women listed as things that they would miss in their native land they said: 1.family; 2.friends; 3.the city of Kiev; 4.native land - were the most common answers. Again nearly all of these women think that it is important for a family to have children. Most thought that the right number of children is two but some thought that three would be better. These women are the same as their younger sisters in who they feel should be the head of the family: 2/3 would like for the man to lead the family and 1/3 wanted a relationship where the two are partners in making the decisions. The age range of men these women thought would be best for them was about 30-45 year old. More than 1/2 said that they think that life in Ukraine now is worse than it was when they were part of the USSR. The others think that life is better now than under Communism. There are many very good, very attractive and very eligible women in this age range from Kiev and the country of Ukraine.

The qualities in a man that most women listed as what she likes and hopes to find in her husband are:

1.reliability; 2.intelligence; 3.honesty; 4.faithfulness; 5.industrious; 6.humor.

The qualities that they do not like in a man are:

1.self-admiration; 2.stupidity; 3.greed; 4.insolence; 5.arrogance; 6.unreliability.


36-45 YEARS OLD



There are not many women in this age group that have not been married before, but most who will answer have said they lost their husband due to divorce or his death. Many of these women have children at home and their chances of finding a Ukrainian man are often not very good. The men there have many women to choose from and most will want to find a younger woman and the average life expectancy for these men is 60 years. There is wide spread alcoholism and smoking is much more accepted there. When the women get to be this age many of them do not want to leave their family and friends. Many of these women think it is too late to make such serious changes in their life by moving to a new country. They are very experienced, they were formed during the power of the Soviet Union and they lived through the break up of this world. They were forced by necessity to live by a new and very different set of rules, this has had an influence on how they are now in their views and behaviors.

Again the majority has graduated a higher learning institute. About 1/2 of them said that a husband with a higher education was important to them. The other 1/2 said that it was not a big factor in her future husband. Not many of the women in this age range speak English, the most common foreign language learned when they were in school was German. The way that they were raised and their life experience has made them even more conservative than the younger women. Nearly all of women in this age think the conditions in Ukraine now are worse or much worse than the life that they had when the USSR controlled their country. They were formed under Communist Russia and they lived through the hard times that followed its break up. This had an influence on how they are now in their views and behavior. Perhaps it may also be that during the time of the USSR was the time of their youth, when the world seemed so nice and full of possibilities.

They are not as concerned with a man's appearance as some of the younger women are but they seem to be even more set in the idea that most would only consider a white man for her husband. The age of the men they seek is usually about 40-55+ years old. They also said very similar things as the younger women about what they like about Ukraine, what they would miss about Ukraine if they were to move from there. The things that they dislike about Ukraine were also similar the most common complaint was about the government and the corrupt system. They also added to this list no social guarantees from the government and poor health care. Most of these women say that they think a man looks better with short hair and no beard. They are also the same in their belief that the man should be the head of the family, though some of them would like to have a relationship where both people have equal responsibilities in the relationship.

The qualities that they look for in a man are very similar to the younger women. Here is what they said they liked:

1.intelligence; 2.kindness; 3.reliability; 4.faithfulness; 5.independence; 6.stability; 7.industrious; 8.honesty.

The qualities that they did not like are also very similar to the younger women feelings:

1.stupidity; 2.greed; 3.insolence; 4.unreliability; 5.self-admiration; 6.arrogance; 7.untidiness.

Train returns

swede
08-25-2008, 05:42 PM
Hi PeopleS,

that was an impressive long post you made. I tend to agree with you about this forum, a bit more communication from admin wouldn't have been amiss. At one time I myself tried to get in contact with it/them, as I then felt uncertain about some of my more rambling posts and would have offered some self-moderation, if I strayed too far from the acceptable.

Considering that you and I already at that time supplied most of the postings, I gathered, that the forum is at its end, as I never got any answer. I haven't been much around on other similar forums for a while now, but it's my impression that the whole subject of scamming is loosing public interest. Maybe because enough people now know about the risks involved in net-dating, so they aren't scammed so often, as it happened earlier.

The fact that there haven't been any new scammees appearing here lately suggests this.

You have been to UA more recently than me, but I do not think, that this 3 year timegap between out visits would influence the survey of the women in your added info. At least not concerning the older two groups. Maybe in the younger one.

My feeling about this info is, that it is very tailored and my guess is, that it origines with some agency trying to sell an idealised version of UAW. But as my 3 month stay in UA was exclusively in Sevastopol (apart from transits through Kiev), I could have seen only a specialised part of the country. My impression was, that Sevastopol has a somewhat better economical situation, and that its importance as a major port also has made it more cosmopolitan. But the UA I met there doesn't look completely like the one in the info. Neither the women or men.

PeopleSmoks
08-25-2008, 09:23 PM
Hey swede! Yea, I think the forums are here are dying, if not dead but we just haven't quite realized it yet? I understand that it uses web space. It seems to have begun with the removal of photo posting. Granted, Prometheus and I went on a bit of a Lisa Douglas tiraid for a while, but if you can't have some fun, why bother at all?

This is for the admin's eyes as much as it is for yours. I've said many times that this is a place for the sharing of thoughts, ideas, opinions, and even a little humor from time to time. "Take my three Olgas... PLEASE!!!"[:o)] But there is an old saying... "Opinions are like @ssholes, and everyboby's got one..."

The point to that being my opinion about the way admin has handled some things that have been posted in the past by simply deleting them. I feel they should warn about what is said, or make a constructive observation or comment that others can read and then also evaluate and expand upon.

Yes, the part of my post that is in blue is from a website that is selling something, but I thought it was some interesting material for guys to read and was too drawn out to post as I ended up having to do because my original post that included a link to this page was censored from existense.

This site is by an American who is selling newpaper personal ads in Ukrainian newspapers. Some of his sales pitch is similar to things that have been discussed around the forums here. Something I had talked about, and others also had mentioned concerning concentrating on one specific city or region, rather than hopping all over Ukraine or Russia to meet and go out with women.

His sell is to place a personal ad in UA newspapers, in English. I've seen a couple such sites with varying prices. The thought being that mostly English speaking women who have internet access and are not going through an agency would respond, thus no agency fees, and no need for a translator when you go to meet these women. Sounds good?

Of course, it must be realized that your average passport/ visa/ airfare scammer also speaks English and has internet access without the use of an agency! Generally, I thought this might be a good subject to throw out there to see if others might have any comments, but the admin threw the baby out with the bath water so to speak.

During my continued search for a "nice girl" from the FSU, Ukraine in particular, and Lugansk region to be even more specific, I have also noticed more and more, that there seem to be many women who fit into the "will you take care of my kid too" category.

To some extent, I would say that there are a lot of stupid FSUWs out there who are getting involved with smooth talking FSUMs, getting knocked up, and then finding themselves alone with their kid? I say stupid FSUWs only because this seems to be a trend not just in the 30+ yo group, but also amonst the younger girls. Can't they see it coming?

It's like a trend of guys over there making babies and walking away, and these girls looking for a western man to take care of them. It's not so much "looking for a better life", but looking for a guy to support my kid! I guess Ukraine doesn't have the same laws regarding child support payments as we have in the US? Make a baby... walk away?

Anyway, this site is generally refering to Kiev as it's central location for placing ads. Although I know you're the only one who read any of what I wrote, swede, I hope others may also have something to add, or comment on. Maybe the admin will have something to say rather than deleting this post?[:0]:([xx(]

Train returns

swede
08-26-2008, 06:49 AM
Hi PeopleS,

concerning the admin here, I'll take the stand, that business is business. If forums like this are an effort to legitimate dating-agencies, so be it. I would never expect a commercial company to take overly altruistic attitudes. But ofcourse then there are various ways of making business more or less moral. And I repeat, that in this case a few words to you or me wouldn't have been a big inconvenience. I found it slightly annoying, that the most creative parts of our combined literary activities disappeared, because the content was so many-levelled and probably attracted readers, who would otherwise not be steady on the forum.

But still, looking at the amount of readers on this thread, it seems that we still have a small, but faithful audience. Or maybe the boredom amongst nerds is so big, that sheer desperation will drive 'strays' to read anything, even this.

In any case....The idea behind the info you posted seems sound and corresponds very much with my own suggestions at the start of 'psychobabbling'. If you are find any 'real' FSUW, it would be amongst the traditional, non-'jetset' (non-Olga) population. Those not having internet access, but only reading, and responding to, newspapers would most likely consist of a higher part traditional women.

My own original FSUW contacts started this way, and the about 55 answers I got, were in my opinion ALL OK. Apart from my own direct observations on each of these individuals (I snail-corresponded with a dozen or so of them for some time), the fact that snail-post requires both time and an extra input of activity, gives a certain assurance that scamming is not a major risk. The input is simply too big compared to the output (scam results).

In my own case, two of my four FSUW relationships have been longtime single mothers, and there was definitely an element of wanting a family supporter involved. But not quite as big, as one would expect. In both cases these single mothers had got by on the own for 15-20 years, so their contact with me wasn't a result of desperation. And I was never asked unreasonable involvement in their childrens future; practical or economical. I did occasionally supply some help, but only what I found acceptable myself, and what I would have done in any case for good friends etc.

It must be remembered, that in spite of the Sovjet system's shortcomings, it did (in a relative way) live up to some of the promises build into a socialist system. Especially for an american, used to a minimum of authority involvment concerning children, the responsibility for children is a heavy one. But the FSU system took a lot of this responsibilty upon itself. Childcare-centers, schooling (including university), medical care, all was next to free.

Also the civil laws weren't quite so badly administrated as the laws concerning the relationship between individual citizens and the state. A single parent wouldn't be left out in the cold, legally or practically. One of my FSUW contacts was educated at university level as a kind of social psychologist, and had a job as a supervisor of 'problem' families (alcoholism etc). So the state did care about the kids.

Though I believe, that a FSUM would (relatively) get away easier economically, than a WM.

How it is with the very young generation of women I can't say, but considering that they usually have a high educational background, and that contraception isn't frowned upon the same way as f.ex. in fundamentalistic areas in the west, they shouldn't be especially exposed to unwanted pregnancies.

PeopleSmoks
08-26-2008, 07:01 PM
Hey swede! I got your e-address and will send you a short note to verify and that way you can also have my e-address. Thanks!

I'm not going to dwell on the admin's methodology. I will simply state that there have been some things that could have been handled a little better in recent months.

As for the disappearance of so much from the site??? A server melt down is a possible reason? I really do TRY to look for alternative answers sometimes.

You're of course right about the incredible numbers of readers this quaint little experiment of yours has had over the nearly 9 months of it's existense. Only the CC/ UALadys threads have done better! And you thought, "Most likely it will die a silent and unmourned death."

Okay, so Elena, our favorite transexual, somewhat permiscuous, gold-digging scammer and my three Olgas with their spectacular NERTS, brought some low-brow levity to the generally four-letter wordless thread, filled with exhasorbatingly long run-on sentences that went out of control for entire paragraphs, seemingly with no plausible end in sight, however, at the same time, giving the "closet intellectuals" something to think about while debating on whether or not to send that $500 to Svetlana for her granny's 43rd heart transplant surgery.:D

That site which I took the article from, was selling their product. The product being that by using their service, a WM would have a better chance to meet an FSUW that wasn't tied to an agency and thus agency fees for letters and such, and that because they had made "special" arrangements with these Ukrainian newspapers, the ad a WM placed would be in English, and therefore, generally only English speaking FSUWs would reply... No communication problem and no need for a translator if the two us you meet and go on a "real" date.

Giving out your home address to a stranger isn't considered to be the best move, so conventional letter writing isn't really what the thought behind this was. Besides, I don't think it's the best idea for the real, apparently single and probably living alone, FSUW to be telling every WM that wants to communicate with her where she lives.

So, e-mail is the easier way to go, but as I said, it also raises the possibilty of passport/ visa/ airfare scammers, since they usually speak English and have computer access. Like everything about FSU/MOB dating, there's a double-edged sword involved.

I can understand how the socialist programs in the FSU may help with the expenses a single mother might face, but it still can't be easy. Let's face it, I've said it before that FSUWs aren't THAT different from their western counterparts in many ways, and seeing that their children are provided for is just another similarity.

The statement that so many of thewse women with kids are looking for love and stability for their kids, as well as themselves, makes a lot of sense to me. And I realize that you haven't been in the active search for some time, but I can tell you that I have seen a lot of profiles of VERY attractive, (sorry buddy, but I have to say... down right hot, sexy, babes!!!!) girls 20ish to 40ish, divorced and with kids in tow!

Maybe this younger generation of FSUWs is more careful not to get impregnated by some jackass that will run away, but I think it's more luck than a concious effort to avoid young motherhood... YET![?]

Well, I'm currently in the process of properly lubricating my brain. Maybe I'll have more to say about this subject a bit later?[8D]



Train returns

swede
08-27-2008, 07:28 AM
Cit PeopleS:

"Giving out your home address to a stranger isn't considered to be the best move, so conventional letter writing isn't really what the thought behind this was. Besides, I don't think it's the best idea for the real, apparently single and probably living alone, FSUW to be telling every WM that wants to communicate with her where she lives."

Times are a'changing, a little too fast in my opinion. And being closer to doddering than you, I would have loved to say: "Scammers, hah; you young people don't know what scammers are. Now in MY youth we had REAL scammers", but the sad fact is, that there was a lot more trust at that time, when I sent my first dating snail-letters (1989-90). Often it was f.ex. not taken as unreasonable, that you could stay at the woman's place (if she had one), and apart from gossiping neighbours, no-one considered it strange.

And remember, at that time it was uncertain how the russian army would react to their orders of withdrawing from the non-russian sovjet-countries. Like most military occupying what in reality were colonies, they had a much better life, than they would get back in Russia. So there was a lot of tension around. But then, maybe WM were considered the advance guard of a western liberation army and got some credit from this. At my first visit to Poland, I was actually exhibited as something rare and exotic to friends and family.

I don't know if you kept an eye on this thread, while you were momentarily absent on whatever crimefighting activity, you were involved in, but the period which was deleted should add another 4500 visits to what the present visit-counting indicates. And I have been thinking about this strange phenomenon our little thread is. For a while I believed, that it was some kind of soap-opera thing. People coming here from terminal boredom and emptiness, living a synthetic, one-way, passive life through our scribblings, but as I am slowly getting more familiar with the esoteric and alien world of nerd-dom, I have the suspicion, that you and I maybe have created a weird form of 'blogg' (would that be a correct description, I'm still a bit uncertain about, what a 'blogg' actually is, but those I've seen reminds me much of 'psychobabbling'). It's a concept, I have some problems relating to, as I see it as a new kind of newspaper chronicling, where people without any special qualifications tell other people, also without any special qualifications, what to think and believe.

So maybe when this forum closes down, we could start a psychobabble-blogg and get, if not rich, then at least famous. Something which possibly could help you in your romantic ventures: "Not to boast, but I'm actually PeopleS, co-founder of 'psychobabbling'... well, you know", and the girls would say: "Gosh" and nudge each other and rush you. While I could fend off the more serious consequences of exaggerated reclusitiviti'ivity (a psychobabble-rule being: Never make a word shorter than you have to) like mild insanity, stopping being a misanthrop because of social starvation or even be nice to children.

I always feel my best, when I have a chance to tell other people, what they ought to do, this way (on a cosmic scale) making it un-necessary for me to do it myself.

Think I would like to challenge you a bit on your dogma 'women-are-almost-the-same-everywhere', if for nothing else than to get some heat into it; but for new readers, I guess I must restate my opinion of women. I definitely consider them belonging to the higher and more complex form of mammals; they have talents men will seldom acchieve, like child-bearing and home-creating (what the uni-sex enthusiasts call 'drudgery') and democrazy being what it is, I'm not against women having voting rights. They are also free to make applepies. Though I never eat the stuff myself, I can see its ritualistic value.

So start digging your trenches, and I will hopefully invent some arguments in my next post.

Prometheus
08-27-2008, 02:10 PM
Well, I have seen the future, and it ain't pretty. There are political machinations in place that will make it difficult for Russian women to correspond with Western men. Meanwhile with EU and NATO membership spreading through the FSU Eastern Europe block, there is far less economic incentive for women to seek a Western male. Borders are opening up and it's just not the meal ticket it once was.

My FSU MOB has a recently arrived friend from Kiev named Natasha who is the template for a new breed of opportunists. She is 28, tall, blonde, attractive with a "legal education" from a Ukrainian university. She married a guy named Jim who is 52, self employed, a bit pudgy, and a homebody.

Within weeks of her arrival, Natasha began to pester Jim over how much she missed her mother, who was granted a visa and came for a visit that turned permanent. Then she began to pester Jim that she wanted to continue her education, so he got her into the university here and started paying her tuition. Then she began to pester Jim that her commute from his house to the suburbs was too far, so he bought her an Airstream in town and began to pay rentals on the lot it sit on. Natasha began to spend 6 nights a week at the Airstream, but left her Russian speaking mother out at Jim's place, so he can take care of her.

Natasha is spending her time with classes, ballroom dancing competitions (she has a hot 20 something dance partner), and dancing at clubs and gay bars till 4 in the morning. She collects people, has two boyfriends in addition to the ballroom dancer, and is basically pursuing a life of hedonistic pleasure on Jim's credit cards.

I think this forum is dying out, because it was Confidential Connection's decision to briefly take down its website that brought everyone out of the woodwork a couple of years ago. Now that the masses are warming sucking their $7 Ukrainian email lattes again, while imagining themselves making love with women young enough to be their daughters, there is little incentive to seek out a rational third party analysis of what is really going on. "The truth? You can't handle the truth!" People don't want the truth, they only want the mind numbing warmth of a fantasy that appears ridiculous to everyone that didn't take the "blue pill."

Enough said.

Prometheus

swede
08-27-2008, 04:39 PM
Cit Prometheus:

"Well, I have seen the future, and it ain't pretty. There are political machinations in place that will make it difficult for Russian women to correspond with Western men."

This confirms, what I recently have written about. EU is working very hard now to establish (legal) general surveillance of ALL communication, without any suspicion of crime and without court-orders (under the usual pretext of terrorist-fighting). This has ofcourse led to the suspicion, that what the various EU authorities really want, is a possibility to (outside normal democratic procedures) register dissidents. We really are reaching Orwellian proportions here.

It has also been suggested (and most likely will happen), that all web-sites must be 'quality-certified'. Translated to normal language: Censorship.

All this will make communication difficult.

My former thoughts on this subject has now proven to be a reality, not a conspiracy theory. And the political storms here are gigantic.


"Meanwhile with EU and NATO membership spreading through the FSU Eastern Europe block, there is far less economic incentive for women to seek a Western male. Borders are opening up and it's just not the meal ticket it once was."

I can only agree.

PeopleSmoks
08-27-2008, 07:19 PM
Hey guys! One of the FSUWs I've been in communication with has talked about this EU/ NATO push into eastern European politics. According to her, it's a bit of a pickle for the powers that be in Ukraine. A great percentage of the people that live east of the Dnipre are of Russian decent and have family ties to Russia.

I hear it's not so clear as to which way the Ukraine government will go, despite the rough patch they went through with Russia over natural gas supplies back when I was in Lugansk 6 months ago. There is a fear that Russia might raise gas prices drastically as punishment if Ukraine turns too much toward the western alliances.

Again, much of my search is centered in the Lugansk region of Ukraine, so I reference much to that region. The economics have improved... some... but not as much as many think. Some regions and cities are doing much better than others to be sure. Inflation is a concern of the common people there, with rising prices keeping pace with salary increases and thus negating any gains.

Whether a WM can offer a "better" life to an FSUW, seems to depend more and more on regionalization. I'm sure there are still many beautiful girls, of all age groups, who dream of meeting their western "Romeo", but they probably don't live in Kiev, Odessa, Lviv or any of the other big cities that are filled with FSU/MOB agencies and internet access.

Although, easy internet access is available, and there are a number of agencies, Lugansk seems to fit as being not so economically blessed, with a slightly better potential for women who really want a western mate, and wish to move west. At the same time, there are still plenty of scammers, and I'm sure a "Natasha" or two to be found lurking about!

It may also be part of the reason why Lugansk has been known for so long as a scam center... Relatively good internet access, combined with the poor economics could easily make an honest person into a criminal.

Hey swede, I don't think Prometheus was talking about the Swedish secret police monitoring e-traffic, so much as that if general living conditions continue to improve in the FSU, and more specifically, for FSUWs, why will they continue to look west for a way to a better life?

The trump card is the FSUM. Just how rotten are these guys really? I seriously don't believe it's nearly as bad as the stories floated by agency spin-doctors trying to sell memberships, but there is usually a small truth behind the over stated propaganda.

The vast numbers of FSUWs ages 22 to 35+ on so many sites, who are divorced and dragging kids along, give me a cause to wonder a bit about the character of these men.

Well, my three Olgas just entered the boudoir with chocolate sauce, whipped cream and a bowl of strawberries and no spoons... GOTTA GO!!!![:0][:p][8D]

Train returns

PeopleSmoks
08-30-2008, 02:22 PM
Hey guys! Well, my three Olgas are still trying to clean all of the chocolate sauce from the ceiling of the boudoir and it's beginning to look as though I'm going to have to have Alfred do some painting, but it was well worth it!!!![:0]

I'd like to expand a bit on the character of the FSUM as still being motivation for FSUWs to look west. My personal experience with them is very limited, so it's really very hard for me to form much of an informed opinion.

In Lugansk, my contact with the grocery store manager was essentially on a business level, as it was in his best interest for me to shop in his store? Or maybe he was just a nice guy???

But, what is the REAL attitude of these men toward the FSUW? As has been said before, where there's smoke, there's fire. At least, usually this holds true. Are FSUMs such beasts as portrayed by so much agency and FSU/MOB website propaganda? I'm sure they're not THAT bad, but I can imagine there is some truth to the stories?

As I've also touched on, there is the number of FSUWs, who are divorced and have kids on so many sites. This leads me to start to believe that there IS an attitude of irresposiblity among FSUMs that may rival that of so many "makin' welfare babies" types here in the US... Make a kid and move on to the next girl?

The fact that FSUWs out number FSUMs goes a little beyond female longevity. FSUWs generally out number their male counterparts within all age groups. Does this add fuel to the FSUM attitude of, "I can always find another girl"?

Input! Please!!![8D]



Train returns

swede
09-03-2008, 12:34 PM
Sorry about the silence again, but all lines of any kind have been down for almost a week. The blessings of living in the countryside.

Cit Peoples:

"Hey swede, I don't think Prometheus was talking about the Swedish secret police monitoring e-traffic, so much as that if general living conditions continue to improve in the FSU, and more specifically, for FSUWs, why will they continue to look west for a way to a better life?"

I will take this as a startingpoint and later include other parts of your recent posts in my answer.

In spite of my love of conspiracy theory, I'm still not that far gone, that I see conspiracies everywhere. What I do see is a growing polarisation with a 'if you're not with me, you're against me' content. And that I take present swedish policy as an example, is because Sweden has had a long-time history of neutrality, so if that kind of thing happens here, it's a sure sign of enforced black/white choices (our present governmental crisis being US inspired and supported).

I do not believe, that the average FSU person will take our local government's experiment in Big Brother'ing as a major point, but taken as an expression of a generally hardening 'taking sides' process, it is significant. The unrest is growing, with a steadily increasing distrust of american foreign policy. People whom I for years have known to be US sympathisers are now getting to the 'yankee, go home' stage (as I've mentioned before). And this is Europe, I'm talking about, with it's long time association with America. What anti-american feelings now exist in Africa, the middle east and FSU I can only guess at. But they won't be less than here. In FSU even the non-russian parts of populations are beginning to go this way. And this will ofcourse eventually make communication problems also at individual level. Very few are now buying the official version of 'world policing based on a boyscout morality'.

Certain aspects of FSU mentality is something I've never been able to fathom completely. There's no doubt, that a greater amount of alcoholism exists (that includes women also), but making that into a general explanation is exaggerated. A few years ago I read somewhere, that the average marriage in Russia was 1,2 years (or was it 1,8), and with my personal knowledge of FSUW I am sure, that it's not only the men making it so, or because alcoholism was involved. But the man/woman relationship there is so complex, that it's the study of a lifetime. Both parts are 'dancing around' the other in highly formalistic patterns, showing signs of 'traditional' sex-roles, respect and obligations, but underneath there's a seething discontent, manifesting in the men going to safe ground in bars as their territory and women staying at home, where they rule with matriarchial power (possibly with the threat of going to strike concerning cooking and vacumcleaning, which few FSUM would 'lower' themselves to). The closest I can come to describe it is to make a comparison to the science-fiction writer Frank Herbert, who wrote some extremely deep books on human relationships and existentialism.

Concerning the economical part of east/west dating I believe, that the disappearance of 'free' sites could be a key to this question. A growing economy (as undoubtly happens in many places in FSU), almost up to west-european standard, would ofcourse explain some of the present situation, but not all of it. There would still be geographical areas of unemployment and stagnant economy, and 'free' sites would be an attractive option for poor women or women, who believe they are past last-sales-date. The language barrier was never any problem before, as you can have translation done cheap privately, so why should it be now.

People in FSU are incredibly well-informed and down-to-earth (at least compared to the average western sheepwalker), and choosing agencies as a starting-point for contact wouldn't be THE natural choice, so the dominance of agencies implies something deeper than just economy. I'm a bit out of touch with the present market, but an educated guess would be a psycho-social factor. FSUW, AT FIRST, seem to be eager to go west, but when it comes to the point, they often regret after being in close contact with western culture (by having a WM for boyfriend or living in the west some time). In my own life I've seen it happen again and again. The woman in question can be educated, intelligent, have a big theoretical knowledge of the west, but when it comes to the point, some fundamental western attitudes are just too much for them, when experienced in reality. So to take an example I'll mention the western superficial contact between individuals. We have let our crude, money-oriented society put a wedge between individuals, so other people are considered as dead 'things', we have communication-problems with.

I'm not trying to make any 'noble savage' philosophy about people in FSU, pretending them to be filled with the 'solidarity of the poor', they are as greedy as any american status-seeking housewife, but as the only 'asset' an average person had in FSU was his/her personal talents and/or social network, they have carried the art of social communition to a fine point. A bit like what I was used to here before. We had a 'barter economy' based on favours given and taken at a practical level, and even bitter enemies would momentarily forget their disagreements in such situations.

Such people know how to COMMUNICATE at a personal level, not being wiser, more noble or altruistic, but simply by having the PROCESS of communication instilled in them. Though without doubt they will forget in a generation or two, as they are turned slowly into consuming robots. So the FSUW still seeking net-dating would be the equalent of potential jet-setters (I know this is a coarse generalisation), the 'real' women being more reserved.

On a personal note about western (lacking) talent for communication, I have on internet made the observation, that very few participants on forums actually communicate. Most are one-way soap-box orators, and what happened earlier on this forum and now on 'psychobabbling' is an exception rather than the rule: We communicate(d).

I have the feeling, that a kind of (even fake) 'cool' attitude is now considered a sign of strength in western culture. "I am stronger than you are, because I can get better along alone without you, than you can without me". Such a theater would be counter-survival in FSU, where 'strength' was something you measured against life, not a mask you put on, and a person from FSU would look with contempt on anyone trying to do such.

PeopleS; your idea of even a small majority of FSUW compared to FSUM leading to deep psychological consequences is almost certainly correct. I am from a place and a generation with a few percent more men than women. Being a teenager then meant, that you sought your partners from the almost exact same age-group, so I had some 'beeb' problems (not having developed the charming personality I have now). Those few percent meant an immense psychological advantage for the girls in the 'war of the sexes'. Later, when a 10-15 year age difference didn't mean so much (and with a surplus of girls in the almost next generation after mine), I never had any problems.

PeopleSmoks
09-04-2008, 10:32 PM
Hey swede! I really can't say that the US government is supporting the apparent paranoia of the Swedish ultra conservatives? As for inspiration, our government isn't looking for crazy Ivan any longer. Now, it's the hunt for middle eastern terrorists!!!

European anti-American sentiments don't bother most Americans too terribly much. Honestly, our attitude is screw you, cause when the next Hitler comes along we'll just sit here and watch his armies roll through your countries like... um... the first Hitler did!!!

Have you watched the movie "Team America... World Police" yet??? It's a satirical riot!!! It addresses some of these world perception issues.
D!cks, @ssholes and pu$$ies.

Pu$$ies don't like d!cks, because pu$$ies get f*cked by d!cks. But d!cks also f*ck @ssholes! There are @ssholes out there who want to sh!t all over everything! Pu$$ies think they can deal with @ssholes by talking. But, you see, sometimes pu$$ies get full of sh!t themselves, because pu$$ies are only an inch and a half from being @ssholes in the first place. And only a big d!ck with some balls can really f*ck an @sshole!!!!

But, sometimes, d!cks f*ck without thinking about it first, or they f*ck too hard or when it isn't appropriate and we need the pu$$ies to remind us of this. Still, if d!cks aren't allowed to tear into that @sshole that really deserves it, we'll all end up covered in sh!t from some @sshole!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wow!!! What a wild rant I just did!!!!!!!!!!!

The only people here, the US, who care what Europeans think are people who travel and people who are thinkers. I'm a little of both, but I admit that I still carry a bit of that good old American arrogance with me.
quote:Certain aspects of FSU mentality is something I've never been able to fathom completely.Surely, some of this mentality goes back to the days of the old empire, as well as the obvious SU period. It's hard for Americans, and I'm sure, most Europeans to relate to the years spent under Soviet domination.

But now, with western influences, FSUWs are seeing new things and are turning from the old, but the men naturally want to keep the status quo since it strongly favored them.

The disappearing "free" sites really has no influence on legitimate FSUWs since they don't pay to be on 99.9% of the pay sites anyway. You've admittedly been out of the loop. Pay sites generate their income from the WMs who buy "memberships" and pay for letter translations. FSUWs generally join free.
quote:FSUW, AT FIRST, seem to be eager to go west, but when it comes to the point, they often regret after being in close contact with western culture And one more time, I will interject my feeling that the agencies and websites have waged this war of propaganda on both sides of the fence.

To the WM... "Marry a beautiful FSUW half your age! She'll cook, clean, and engage in sexual gymnastics with you!!!"

To the FSUW... "Marry a WM. Okay, he's old enough to be your dad, but he's got money, a swimming pool, and if you tell him you have a headache or you're having your period, he'll leave you alone and send you shopping with his credit card!"

PROPAGANDA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Train returns

skipped
09-05-2008, 01:14 AM
Peops,
That the funniest F!ck'in thing I have ever read in my life!! Ha ha
skipped

swede
09-07-2008, 10:13 AM
Cit PeopleS:

"I really can't say that the US government is supporting the apparent paranoia of the Swedish ultra conservatives?"

Not meant as criticism, it would be unreasonable for you to follow our local politics in detail, but US IS heavily involved in our present political crisis, both at intelligence and administration level. This is common, public knowledge here, presented by our authorities.

Guess you can understand the local irritation by suddenly discovering, that US is part of activities, which are threatening our constitution. Sweden is after all not a banana republic or host for terrorist training centers on a big scale (on the small, I can't say, but that should be solved through other methods).

So when a considerable part of swedes say: "Hands off", it's something which ought to be listened to, if US doesn't want to caught with its hand in the jam-jar. It would be a terrible loss of international reputation. This is 'beeb' Sweden, for 'beeb's' sake. The home of the political oh so righteous.

In any case, my criticism isn't against any specific country or nation, my worries lie in the area of defending the principles of liberal, constitutional democracies against totalitarian tendencies. And this conflict can be seen more and more clear almost inside every nation. To postulate a drastic cutdown on democratic principles to defend democracy is nonsense. This way we in the end would have totalitarian systems defending democratic ideals.

Sorry, haven't seen 'Team America...World Police', so I can't have any opinion on it. But I gather from your really refined language, that it must be a film with many subtle and elegant submeanings. Maybe as deep as the Rambo films, which so philosophically convincing and emotionally moving told the sheepwalkers what's up and down. Not being able to even slightly imagine what 'motherhood' would feel like, I can at least feel the taste of applepie in my mouth, when I look at them. But a short recension wouldn't be amiss, as I doubt my local DVD dealer has 'Team America .....' in store. Though I can get some Ren? Zellweger films.

Cit:

"The only people here, the US, who care what Europeans think are people who travel and people who are thinkers. I'm a little of both, but I admit that I still carry a bit of that good old American arrogance with me."

Hah, my friend. At the present my european 'beeb' is bigger than your 'beeb'. In a few years the $ will share status with the grivna. But given that you after all come from a better genetic stock than many of your compatriots, you should be able to survive the following cultural shock better than most.

Cit:

"The disappearing "free" sites really has no influence on legitimate FSUWs since they don't pay to be on 99.9% of the pay sites anyway. You've admittedly been out of the loop. Pay sites generate their income from the WMs who buy "memberships" and pay for letter translations. FSUWs generally join free."

Even if somewhat out of touch, I'm aware of that. The point would be, that there ought to be more WM on the free sites (as they are free), thereby enhancing the contact possibilities for FSUW through sheer number. That this is not the case is a puzzle for me. Even though some western countries now have put restrictions on dating-sites, it still would be possible to base such a site somewhere outside US or european legislation. The 'old' version of Matchdoctor had at its highpoint more than a million ads. That's a lot of potential ground for commercials income.

Cit:

"And one more time, I will interject my feeling that the agencies and websites have waged this war of propaganda on both sides of the fence."

Two of my gals have never had their small hands on a computer before meeting me (and hardly after), but they still show all the signs of general FSUW behaviour in this direction. If you would include womens' magazines etc in the above, then maybe.... But that would leave the dating aspect out, at least on a commercial basis.

PeopleSmoks
09-08-2008, 10:10 PM
Hey swede! Not having read all the articles I found concerning the current "Big Brother" paranoia in Sweden, I can only comment on what I have taken time to read. The following being one article...

http://www.robertamsterdam.com/2008/07/sweden_to_monitor_russias_inte.htm

Honestly, I don't see the problem? The articles I read talk about a growing concern of Russian "hackers". Apparently, these hackers have been disrupting internet traffic throughout Europe. British intelligence, MI5, is also involved in this "counter cyber terrorism", so it's NOT just the US agencies.

Maybe it's because we Americans are so use to our government "intelligence" agencies snooping around so much that it doesn't bother us so much anymore? Plus, we have so darned many "watchdog" groups, looking for government cover ups and conspiracies that the rest of us just figure someone will blow the whistle if things go too far.

I really think that it's because your country is so new at this sort of thing that it bothers you more than it does the average American who has grown oblivious to such "minor" government created "inconveniences"???

And personally, I think the US involvement in any of what's going on with Swedish politics and this internet monitoring situation is just someone's easy way of finding someone to blame for something they don't like.

I mean, what is the US going to stop foreign aid to Sweden if your government doesn't do this? Does Sweden even get aid from the US? If you do, why? You guys seem to be in pretty good shape to me! Is the US going to not be Sweden's friend? So just how is the US influencing Sweden?

swede, 'Team America' is available through Amazon. I really can't believe that I'm about to use it again, but...

In the movie, after a terrorist attack blows up the Panama canal and they say it was in retaliation for being stopped in Cairo, Alec Baldwin, who is the head of the Film Actors Guild, or F.A.G. for short, goes on TV and makes this speech... "Who do we blame for the deaths? Do we blame the terrorists for the bombing? Do we blame the individual who supplied them with the W.M.D.s (Weapons of Mass Destruction)? No! We blame Team America!

The US has become an easy target for so much of the worlds issues. Sure we're d!cks, and sometimes we go around f*cking when it isn't necessarily appropriate, but it's time for the rest of the world to start blaming the @ssholes for all the sh!t, not us!

Oh, and may God, or the Great Spirit, or the Intelligent Designer bless you and have mercy on your immortal soul if Ren? Zellweger films
are all you can get your hands on!!! You poor bastard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
quote:Hah, my friend. At the present my european 'beeb' is bigger than your 'beeb'. In a few years the $ will share status with the grivna. But given that you after all come from a better genetic stock than many of your compatriots, you should be able to survive the following cultural shock better than most.Actually, I think the USD has gained a few perentage points on the Euro since my trip to Lugansk? Besides, we've probably secretly stashed away more Euros at Fort Knox than are currently in circulation throughout half of western Europe!:D[:o)]
quote:Even if somewhat out of touch, I'm aware of that. The point would be, that there ought to be more WM on the free sites (as they are free), thereby enhancing the contact possibilities for FSUW through sheer number. That this is not the case is a puzzle for me.And again, the paysite and agency propaganda (which has some basis in fact???)... "Hey! WMs, all the girls on the 'free' websites are internet scammers! Your only safe bet to finding that beautiful, half your age, house cleaning, sexual acrobat, former commie hottie, is to sign up with us and pay for endless letter translations because we check out all the girls and make sure they are real and that they really want to marry a WM!!! Honest!!!!!!!!!!"[V]




Train returns

swede
09-09-2008, 05:24 AM
Hi PeopleS.

Went to the link you created, and it seems to me, that this dutch guy has the same opinion of the swedish snoop law, as I have. That it's an infringement on civil rights.

In any case this swedish law isn't meant to be used as a tool in cyber-wars. This is clearly stated. It's VERY vaguely outlined to be a protection against any outer threats to Sweden, but the actual lawtext can, when it comes to the point, be read as the devil reads the bible. Without missing a beat, it could just as well be used for registration of dissidents inside AND outside Sweden.

And now to a point, you have touched upon a couple of times. The involvment of US (and naturally english) authorities. You touched upon the strength of civil rights groups in US. We haven't got anything like that here, and the 'resistance' is only now slowly gathering. I guess, that if snooping as described in the swedish law, was proposed in US, there would be all hell to pay. But the swedish government openly admit, that it intend to swap any information it picks up with other NATO intelligences. Considering that 80% of russian net-traffic passes through Sweden, it means that also US citizens having russian contacts (for whatever reasons) legally can be screened here, and the information later given to US intelligence.

So US (and England) make Sweden do the dirty work, and can lean back with a clear conscience. "See, no hands. WE didn't do it".

Another point in favour of US involvement was, that the Bush administration 'lent' their prime advisor on (net) communication to the swedish government, to help clean up the mess here. Our local politicians are probably even less aware of how internet-communication functions than I am (and that says a lot), and still live in some past era with illusions of the half-sovjet like control swedish authorities have of almost every single aspect of swedish citizens' lives. They simply couldn't handle the situation and panicked, when they discovered the extent of internal criticism. So uncle Sam gave a lending hand.

Sorry that my interest in this situation is so extensive, but if you woke up one morning and discovered you were living in the political equalent of Alabama 50 years back, you probably also would be.

I'm certain, that you and I could get well along as individuals, in spite of my occasional having to take bubble-baths prepared by the Olgas. The thought of being exposed to a mix of whipped cream, cheap perfume and champagne as an ablutionary measure, doesn't appeal to me; but nonethless..... As the man in the street (though not a sheepwalker in our case) mostly does; get along in a decent way. And the Olgas would probably be pacified, if I give them my two Ren?e Zellweger films. The Olgas sound like potential R.Z. fans.

My objections isn't against 'defending' my way of living. It's against fighting small private wars between various powergroups, where I am exposed to smokescreens of 'national security' secrecy, disinformation, propaganda and manipulation. If I absolutely MUST take sides, even start thinking about killing other people in the name of good or bad guys, I want to have as much honesty and true information as possible.

'My home (and my mind) is my castle'.

Wherever there are troubled waters, there will also be 'Hitlers', no matter the political background or constitution. It will be very interesting to follow the situation in FSU in the future, and see how quick they will forget the sovjet system.

scamfree
09-10-2008, 11:30 AM
hey swede
find a good drug supply.
you need it [V]

PeopleSmoks
09-10-2008, 10:03 PM
Hey swede! I guess it's all matter of where you're from as far as "snoop" laws go. Yea, we're a bit more use to having someone try to tread on our liberties than you apparently are, and have developed some defenses against such things going too far.

Okay, all this stuff is "protected" by our constitution, but it wasn't until the 1950s and Sen. Andrew McCarthy that the need for civil rights legislation became and what are basically "Big Brother" laws started happenning.

Also, with the turmoil this country went through in the 60s, citizens began to take a more active role in politics, especially those who were less represented within the structure system of the government, by forming specialized groups.

Various government "watchdog" groups have been around for decades here, just looking for the government to do something... anything slightly outside the hard lines. This watching ranges from free-speech to tree huggers to invasions of personal liberties.

Maybe Sweden has gotten away with good, honest, clean livin' for too damn long? Welcome to the 'real' world of power mongers and slight of hand espionage![:0]

Maybe... this is Sweden's wake up call for your complacency all these years? Similar to the wake up call we got from Sen. McCarthy 50 years ago?!? Hopefully, your country's citizens will respond in similar fashion as we did here and start demanding more government accountability? Things don't look so great in the US... Okay, imagine what it might be like without all these "watchdog" groups!!!!
quote:Another point in favour of US involvement was, that the Bush administration 'lent' their prime advisor on (net) communication to the swedish government, to help clean up the mess here. Our local politicians are probably even less aware of how internet-communication functions than I am (and that says a lot), and still live in some past era with illusions of the half-sovjet like control swedish authorities have of almost every single aspect of swedish citizens' lives. They simply couldn't handle the situation and panicked, when they discovered the extent of internal criticism. So uncle Sam gave a lending hand.This part sounds to me like it's more of a case of, "Yes, there IS a problem, but we aren't exactly sure how to deal with it..." from the Swedish government. US and/or British intelligence may have planted the seed in the minds of Swedish officials, but it sounds like they then asked the US for help in dealing with the problem.

Oops!!! US intelligence agency policy 101... try to take total control and only worry if someone complains! Thus the broadness of the law. It's up to someone to complain enough that it will be ammended. At least that's how it works here.

And as I've said before, I personally don't worry too much about US survielence of internet traffic etc... since I don't think I have much to hide. I've got my three Olgas with their spectacular NERTS! (The feds don't have to know that I smuggled them into the country through my contacts with the Russian mob!);) I've got a good job, although I suppliment my income by growing poppies and cocoa in a field off the AC Expressway, deal crack cocaine, but only on Tuesdays, and store enough weaponry in my apartment to occupy Paris. Okay, Paris is a bad example...
quote:I'm certain, that you and I could get well along as individuals, in spite of my occasional having to take bubble-baths prepared by the Olgas. The thought of being exposed to a mix of whipped cream, cheap perfume and champagne as an ablutionary measure, doesn't appeal to me; but nonethless..... As the man in the street (though not a sheepwalker in our case) mostly does; get along in a decent way. And the Olgas would probably be pacified, if I give them my two Ren?e Zellweger films. The Olgas sound like potential R.Z. fans.I'm sure we'd have a blast hanging out! But, let's get a few things straight! My younger sister is distributions manager for Este Lauder cosmetics. My three Olgas DO NOT wear "cheap perfume"!!! (And their hoo-hoos smell like apples and
cinnamon!) Well, once a month or so... As for movies, they seem to be big Mila Jovovich fans... go figure?


Train returns

PeopleSmoks
09-13-2008, 12:36 PM
Greetings and salutations to all those who still bother to take a peak at the pages of this ever dying forum.

Since my return from my self-imposed exile from the forums, swede and I have returned to our twisted discussions of the world around us and often much more... At least swede and I like to believe there's some mystical deeper meaning to the crap we spew! But, it has come to my eye that we have failed to provide you all with some of the more stylized writings that so many of you have come to expect. So, without further a do, I present another long awaited installment of "My Three Olgas"!!!

Lately, Frau Ava Hindenberg as been quite busy with trying to correct the numerous flaws in the security systems here at Stately Smoks Manor, and hasn't been able to spend as much time with the Olgas as is truly needed on a daily basis. I myself have been so busy fighting the rampant criminal element in these parts that I also have somewhat neglected the Olgas. It's a mistake that I won't soon repeat!

I guess it all began last Saturday, when I found my man servant, Alfred, incapacitated with an ear to ear grin on his face, on the lawn near the north entrance of Stately Smoks Manor. All he could say was n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n, then finally he blurted out NERTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes, the Olgas had used their secret weapon on my faithful Alfred... They flashed their bare breasts at him, complete with the most spectacular NERTS any man has ever seen! Thus leaving my poor Alfred a drooling, babbling heap of horny manhood on the lawn and making their escape to an unguided, unrestricted and unsupervised rampage on the outside world!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I quickly dispatched heavily armed security personnel to every swimming pool and shopping mall in a 50 mile radius of Stately Smoks Manor. I think that's around 80 kilometers for you metric types? But, the Olgas were nowhere to be found! At this point, I had no alternative but to call Lloyds of London and bump up my personal liability insurance! Then I had a couple dozen beers and went to bed, leaving the crime fighting for another night.

Nearly four days had passed, with no sign of the Olgas. I contacted my fellow super heroes world wide and asked them to help me in my search. Knowing the mass chaos and destruction my normally docile Olgas have the potential to cause borders just this side of "planet killer" asteroid impact, my compatriots were quick to lend a hand.

On day five of the massive world wide search, one my slightly lesser fears was realized when my arch nemisis, The Toker, who's villan powers are to smoke large amounts of cannibus and blow the smoke in people's faces giving them the munchies and making them lazy, learned of the situation. He called me on my cell phone, and to my surprise, offered his assistance in the search for my wayward Olgas! Apparently, he feared that the Olgas running loose would cause so much havoc as to overshadow his masterful, criminal doings. He IS a tad bit egocentric afterall.

I accepted his offer and we went to a Metallica concert with our friends Jack Daniel and Maryjane. I won't go into detail regarding the two twenty-something year old girls we picked up and took to a seedy motel, but... you get the picture...[:0][:p]:D

When I returned to Stately Smoks Manor via the super secret Smoks Cave entrance of course, I was shocked to find that my Olgas, and their spectacular NERTS, had returned of their own accord!!! They scurried to me with their fun bouncy jigglies and each gave me a big hug and a kiss a if everything was okay and scurried off to the swimming pool...

Frau Ava Hindenberg called me to the Olgas' room. There, we found several suitcases filled with money, brochures of some Las Vegas casinos, blue prints and my "Ocean's Eleven" DVD. I think I can figure out WHAT they did... but HOW??? I should spank them for being so naughty, but they seem to enjoy that too much.

Next up, "Olgas' Twelve"?[8D]

Train returns

Prometheus
09-14-2008, 12:09 AM
Smoks, it's high time to break out the bridles, riding crops, and a couple of a**plugs with horse tails attached. Call it the "Olgas' Rodeo." Stream it in Real time on a pay-per-view basis, and Confidential Connections will be begging you to associate. Don King might even come out of retirement to promote. Love it! Let me know if you want a link to my latest tale of debauchery called "FSU MOB"... Prometheus.

swede
09-14-2008, 10:26 AM
Considering that I once read someone seriously postulating, that Donald Duck was a source of esoteric knowledge, it wouldn't be unreasonable to say, that PeopleS and I are producing wisdom. And to be real wisdom, it must be next to incomprehensible.

Take the following example: "The totality of Olgas are greater than the sum of their separate parts". ('Psychobabbling may even get some new-age proselytes by using such language, because it being very liberal also reluctantly accepts even new-agers).

Inspired by Prometheus' recent post ...... Honestly PeopleS, I think, that you're taking a far too narrow outlook on both the inherent possibilities of Olgas and on your civic duties.

Like any true american, you're centering a lot on mammary glands, but the possibilities are numerous, if you stop looking at only the separate parts, and see what Olgas could do for business, politics and philosophy.

In business you could favor those dating-agencies, which have a decent business ehtics (if such exist), by letting the Olgas be models in their banners. Or letting said agencies be quality-certified as 'Olga approved'.

Or politically: You know, that I in my usual gloomy way have complained bitterly and incessantly about the collaps of swedish democracy. A few Olgas placed strategically here and there amongst our leading Big Brothers would do wonders. As we have formerly delved deeply into the problems of alpha-male behaviour etc, I won't take up the subject again, but only say, that our local situation may be libido related, and I'm quite sure that the presence of Olgas here could inspire a more flower-power oriented attitude. 'A dead (tired) politician is a good politician'.

But the real impact of Olgas on the future of this planet would be existential philosophy. No-one being around Olgas more than 5 minutes, would not starting asking themselves questions like: "What is reality?", "what is free will?", "what is sin?", "how dangerous is anarchy?" and "how do I get out of this alive, especially if my wife finds out?".

This way rejuvenating the age-old and important questions of human existence, which too long have been suppressed by mad priests and their lackeys.

Prometheus
09-14-2008, 11:02 AM
"The source of all man's misery lies in his inability to sit in a room with an Olga for one hour in silence." -- Friedrich Nietzsche

PeopleSmoks
09-14-2008, 12:33 PM
Hey guys! You're right that there are endless possibilities for the use of Olgas. But I see them like splitting the atom... When properly applied with great care, you get something good, but such power could also be used to destroy the world and I just don't want to take that sort of risk.
quote: Smoks, it's high time to break out the bridles, riding crops, and a couple of a**plugs with horse tails attached. Call it the "Olgas' Rodeo."Prometheus, my three Olgas and I usually do this every other Saturday afternoon, although I don't televise it! But, I'll take the pay-per-view thing under consideration.
quote:Like any true american, you're centering a lot on mammary glands, but the possibilities are numerous, if you stop looking at only the separate parts, and see what Olgas could do for business, politics and philosophy.swede, the issue of the Olgas' perfectly developed, non-surgically enhanced, no need to wear a push-up bra but they do anyway, happy fun bags complete with the most spectacular NERTS, hard enough to cut diamonds, any man has ever seen being a focal point is that they are quite up front and noticable upon first seeing the Olgas. You CAN'T, NOT notice them!!!!

But, reality is that my three Olgas are a conglomeration of oh so many stereotypes of FSUWs. Where does the reality lie? Or have I inadvertantly come close to hitting the mark?






Train returns

swede
09-14-2008, 02:05 PM
Hi PeopleS, I was just going to send a new post, but I can see, that you beat me to it and even anticipated some of my standard reactions. But I'll send it anyway, as your assurances of world-peace sound a bit shallow.

If Olgas have participated in the creation of Nietzsche'an philosophy, I think that the whole Olga-phenomenon needs to be reconsidered.

Either these specific Olgas are much older, than PeopleS has been led to believe, or there's a whole tribe of them lurking on the periphery of human society. May Kuan Yin look upon us with mercy then. Elenas and Tanyas a man can survive, if he has an understanding bank and a good shrink, but not this.

Though PeopleS is turning a blind eye to the obvious discipline problems in his little, ahem...family, pretending it to be some variety of permissive philosophy, I do not believe that the rest of us deserves a Fortean rain of Olgas (rains of frogs are no problem though). Three Olgas is about enough for one planet.

PeopleS, are you really, really sure, you have a complete grip on the situation?

The whole thing may even fall in the category of conspiracy-theory, Olgas could be aliens trying to mess with us.

But sigh...., I know, that I will not be allowed to follow the conspiracy-line very long, PeopleS usually has opinions on that. But when you wake up one morning and find it offical policy, that every home should have an Olga, I can ofcourse only say: "What did I tell you".

Cit PeopleS:

"swede, the issue of the Olgas' perfectly developed, non-surgically enhanced, no need to wear a push-up bra but they do anyway, happy fun bags complete with the most spectacular NERTS, hard enough to cut diamonds, any man has ever seen being a focal point is that they are quite up front and noticable upon first seeing the Olgas. You CAN'T, NOT notice them!!!!"

Sorry I mentioned it. OFCOURSE you don't have the american fixation with mammary glands, your comment shows that.

Cit:

"But, reality is that my three Olgas are a conglomeration of oh so many stereotypes of FSUWs. Where does the reality lie? Or have I inadvertantly come close to hitting the mark?"

If you only look at the negative part of FSUW, my experience says, that you're pretty close. But then the perfect woman could be constructed from only looking at their good sides alone.

Prometheus
09-14-2008, 02:08 PM
I don't have three Olga's at the moment Smoks, but I do have Diana, Oksana, and Kristina. . . and NERTS which can lead to PERTP. Why did God give the slavs D cup breasts on A cup frames? Now there's a topic which could lead to endless psychobabbling.

PeopleSmoks
09-14-2008, 04:46 PM
Hey guys!
quote:Why did God give the slavs D cup breasts on A cup frames?Prometheus has a point... all puns aside... I've talked about this general topic before, regarding the size and quality of the FSUW forward bumpers. They often seem to be somewhat disproportioned to the basic frame of the girls in general. I think it's this, as much as anything that leads many WMs to become so infatuated with their physical "charms".

During my time in the FSU/MOB "game", I've more than casually noticed the abundance of FSUWs with an abundance in this part of their anatomy. Genetics and geographics tend to have an affect on the way in which the people of a particular region of our world develop, both mentally and physically to some, if not a great extent. But, what is it about the slavic regions that has brought about this seeming increase is the size of FSUW knockers?

Could it be that there is some super secret government agency left over from the "old days" that employs talented surgeons, who leave no scars, to enhance these women in certain areas?[:0] If this is the case, I think the US government should make a consorted effort to bring them here just as we did with German scientists during WWII!!!!

WMs are generally attracted to a potential mate, or in some cases a sex partner, by physical appearance. I would assume that this holds true, to some extent, world wide. A woman's jugs are simply the first thing we see in a head on confrontation, and thus receive a disportionate amount of attention. However, to extend the stereotypes to other cultures within the US, many blacks and hispanics seem to have an attraction for larger, well rounded postereiors! Just an observation, and no offense intended!
quote:PeopleS, are you really, really sure, you have a complete grip on the situation?It's a good point, but maybe the question is do WMs in general have a grip on what they are getting themselves in for when searching to the FSU for a possible future wife? Again, I question the reality vs the propaganda that is being spewed by agecies and websites as to what an FSUW really is? I personally don't see them as these docile women who will remain content with cooking, cleaning and providing never ending sexual favors on a daily basis to some guy just because he got her a green card.
quote:Either these specific Olgas are much older, than PeopleS has been led to believe, or there's a whole tribe of them lurking on the periphery of human society.I see it as quite the opposite. It seems to me that with all of the changes in the FSU, Ukraine in particular, regarding the higher education of FSUWs, that it's the younger FSUWs that have much greater expectations in a WM than their slightly older counterparts. It's times like this that I miss elenag and her input as to what actually goes on in the minds of FSUWs who are looking to the west.

As for my perception of my Olgas, I strongly feel that trying to place dictatorial restraints on them is the kiss of death to whatever relationship has been forged. I see them like a wolf... soft, cuddly and fun to play with, but with an inborn ability to tear a man limb from limb if he pushes things too far toward total domestication! Or in this case, westernization.

Okay, aside from the over-abundance of the good old jiggly-wiggly, happy fun bags, with those oh so spectacular NERTS, that nature has blessed these women with, these are still WOMEN! I'm not even taking into consideration all of the scammers and their pics of Sophia Vergara, who has all the qualities of the large breasted FSUW, or the other stolen pics and models! They need to be seen as women and treated as such. Then, we WMs have to take into consideration their culture, otherwise, relationship meltdown will be waiting just around the corner!

And as I touched on previously, it seems to me that it's the younger, not the older, FSUWs that have so much higher expectations for their perspective mate, so the 40, 50, 60 year old WM who thinks he's going to "score" himself a 20 year old FSU "hottie" for his wild, endless sexual fantasies and house cleaning needs to rethink his plans in my opinion.

As for me and my three Olgas, my biggest concern right now is hiding my Ocean's 11, 12 and 13 DVDs before they get any more ideas and figuring out which one lifted my wallet and credit cards this morning!

Maybe a strip search is in order???[:p]:D[8D]

Oh yeah, one of my latest FSU/MOB "penpals" has finally dropped her "scam-bomb"!!!!! It would seem, her apartment was robbed. I give her credit, she didn't ask me to replace her TV or other things that were "stolen", but to buy her a new security door for $497 USD.[V]



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PeopleSmoks
09-14-2008, 06:47 PM
Hey guys! Okay, this has absolutely nothing to do with my three Olgas or FSU/MOB dating in general, but I just have to SCREAM about this one.... I'm currently "on-call" at work. I just got a message on the service from "Mrs." Marx. Hey, a big "F" you to "Mrs." Marx! To me, when a person declares himself as "Mr." or herself as "Mrs.", they are making an attempt to infer some superiority to the sub-serveant they are calling.

Hey, guess F***ing what "Mrs." Marx, my A/C works just fine! Can "Mrs." superiority say the same? Someone might get to you sometime tomorrow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hahahahaha...f***ing... hahhahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!

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Prometheus
09-15-2008, 04:01 PM
quote:Could it be that there is some super secret government agency left over from the "old days" that employs talented surgeons, who leave no scars, to enhance these women in certain areas? If this is the case, I think the US government should make a consorted effort to bring them here just as we did with German scientists during WWII!!!!

I've always assumed that the long winters and harsh conditions on the steppes in ancient times favored the survival of children whose mother's possessed prodigious mammaries. Thus Darwinian rules favored the development of funbags with NERTS over time. Males are also drawn to large breasted women for much the same reason. Big tits click something near the cerebral cortex that says "survival of my heir" or perhaps just "sweater meat."

Now I know some people will say breast size has nothing to do with overall milk production. True, but even the experts agree that large breasts have superior milk storage capabilities. So when you are hunkered down under the skins, riding out the third blizzard this week, a few lactating Olgas in your hut might mean the difference between life and death. Speaking of Olgas, it seems there are prodigious breasts in Scandinavian countries as well as harsh winter conditions, although Swede will tell you he's not a tit man.

My FSU MOB is a large 34C and I can't get enough of her creamy tits, boobs, breasts, jugs, knockers, hooters, titties, melons, cans, boobies, fun bags, chest cleavage, breast headlights, ta-tas, dirty pillows, mammaries, funbags, tatas, bazookas, honkers, baps, breasticles, mounds, chesticles, bosom, balloons, sweater puppies, bazooms, whoppers, torpedoes, mountains, bitties, sex set, twins, sweater meat, RACK!

Prometheus

[I had some great ASCII art to post here, but the "Forum Code" collapses all spaces.]

Prometheus
09-15-2008, 05:07 PM
On the subject of lactating Olgas, if you ever come across a copy of Best American Erotica 1993, read "Milk" by Michael Dorsey. It is set in Moscow in the Soviet era of food shortages. You'll never look at "May I borrow a cup of milk?" the same way again.

Prometheus

PeopleSmoks
09-15-2008, 07:43 PM
quote:My FSU MOB is a large 34C and I can't get enough of her creamy tits, boobs, breasts, jugs, knockers, hooters, titties, melons, cans, boobies, fun bags, chest cleavage, breast headlights, ta-tas, dirty pillows, mammaries, funbags, tatas, bazookas, honkers, baps, breasticles, mounds, chesticles, bosom, balloons, sweater puppies, bazooms, whoppers, torpedoes, mountains, bitties, sex set, twins, sweater meat, RACK!You forgot tah-rah-rah-boom-tee-yeas and personal floatation gear, not to mention my personal favorite, bouncy-jigglies!:D

So, it seems that another person has read similar things as I've browsed through pertaining to geography, etc having an effect on the physical development of the human species just as it does among many of the "lower" animal species.

Something that is apt to cause debate, if not scorn from the fairer sex is that men and women ARE NOT created equal! A Darwinian type program I saw a while ago outlined the key physical differences as holding their roots in earliest survival of our species. Men generally hold body heat in our extremities, allowing us to hunt and forage in cold weather, where as a woman retains her body heat more in her torso which is key to the survival of a fetus.

We are NOT the same and it makes sense that a woman who's ancestery originates from such a harsh climate might have large hoopty-dos for the reasons you've mentioned... or just so the guys have something to play with? Either way, it's very apparent that these slavic women are quite blessed in the realm of their vodie-oh-doh-dohs![:p]

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Prometheus
09-15-2008, 08:32 PM
Yeah, I'm a little bumbed out at the moment, as my 29 year old Olga is getting ready to spread her wings and fly Prometheus Manor after a bumpy nine years together (one thing about FSU women, it's never boring!) Our lease is up at the end of the year. I'm buying a house, and she's getting an apartment downtown with friends. She was really just an inexperienced kid when I took her under my wing, but now has a degree in finance, a lucrative career, and a burning curiousity about life outside the gates. Her looks get her a lot of attention, and I think she's ready to sample some of these offers (if not doing so already). I think my next Olga is going to be much closer to my own age, but I will definately miss this lovely one.

PeopleSmoks
09-15-2008, 10:43 PM
Hey Prometheus! Sorry to hear about your Olga setting sail out of Prometheus Manor. 29 Years old with 34Cs! I know you'll miss them... I mean her...[B)]

I guess the green card factor is something that hangs over everyone's head who ventures into the murky waters of FSU/MOB?:(

It's a very cold thing for me to say, but you'll find another one that looks just like her and will probaly even have the same name, 34Cs on an A Cup frame and everything! Only hopefully it'll last the next time... if you go the FSU/MOB route again.

Maybe Eustace will toss you one of his UALadys? He has so many![:o)]



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Prometheus
09-16-2008, 08:04 PM
Fell over laughing when a buddy from high school called today to say his wife of ten years just left him. I think it's something in the air. Olga's look at their calendars and realize they aren't going to get any good gifts unless they clear out before fall begins (Sept. 22nd this year). This permits the wandering Olga's to find new living arrangements, hook up with a guy, and still have plenty of time to rake in some good party invites and expensive gifts over the holidays. No sense in sitting home licking your wounds during Christmas break.

PeopleSmoks
09-16-2008, 08:42 PM
quote: Fell over laughing when a buddy from high school called today to say his wife of ten years just left him.YOU SICK BASTARD!!!! Well, "Misery loves company", or so they say!

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Prometheus
09-16-2008, 08:57 PM
And believe me, WE COMISERATED. :)

swede
09-18-2008, 05:17 AM
Hi Guys,

I can see, that you've been roaming around in fantasies of the land of milk and honeypots. But as with PeopleS' polite reservation towards my stereotyping of FSUW psychology, I will allow myself the same freedom by doubting a stereotyping of their physiology.

As I in no way ascribe to the Freud'ian beliefsystem abomination, I can only say, that I probably was properly breastfed when an infant, so since then I've never had much thoughts of associating my 'beeb' with milk or milkproduction.

And quite contrary to the latest trend on 'Psychobabbling', I can only personally comment, that I haven't observed so much upper story natural endowments as you, but instead rather quite many wellshaped and wellexposed legs in FSU.

So I believe, that the present subject possibly can be approached from the angle of: "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder".

In any case, if mammary glands are to be considered a Darwinistic focus point, women having such items reaching down to their hips ought to be epitomes of female beauty.

But I think, we can agree upon one thing. FSUW are experts in making the best of what nature gave them. Women who elsewhere would be considered plain or even unattractive, are in FSU really feminine and interesting.

Prometheus
09-18-2008, 02:20 PM
There once was a girl from Nizes,
With tits of two different sizes.
One was so small, there was nothing at all,
The other so large, it won prizes.

I like the long legs too Swede, but why not have both? :) I agree a short, plump Olga is a bit of a turnoff, regardless of how large her meat puppets might be.

As for tits hanging around the knees, don't knock it till you've tried it. Remember the famous admonitions of American Bejamin Franklin made more than 263 years ago:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
June 25, 1745

MY DEAR FRIEND:-

I know of no Medicine fit to diminish the violent natural inclination you mention; and if I did, I think I should not communicate it to you. Marriage is the proper Remedy. It is the most natural State of Man, and therefore the State in which you will find solid Happiness. Your Reason against entering into it at present appears to be not well founded. The Circumstantial Advantages you have in View by Postponing it, are not only uncertain, but they are small in comparison with the Thing itself, the being married and settled. It is the Man and Woman united that makes the complete Being. Separate she wants his force of Body and Strength of Reason; he her Softness, Sensibility and acute Discernment. Together they are most likely to succeed in the World. A single Man has not nearly the Value he would have in that State of Union. He is an incomplete Animal. He resembles the odd Half of a Pair of Scissors.

If you get a prudent, healthy wife, your Industry in your Profession, with her good Economy, will be a Fortune sufficient.

But if you will not take this Counsel, and persist in thinking that Commerce with the Sex is inevitable, then I repeat my former Advice that in your Amours you should prefer old Women to young ones. This you call a Paradox, and demand my reasons. They are these:

1. Because they have more Knowledge of the world, and their Minds are better stored with Observations; their conversation is more improving, and more lastingly agreeable.

2. Because when Women cease to be handsome, they study to be good. To maintain their Influence over Man, they supply the Diminution of Beauty by an Augmentation of Utility. They learn to do a thousand Services, small and great, and are the most tender and useful of Friends when you are sick. Thus they continue amiable. And hence there is hardly such a thing to be found as an Old Woman who is not a good Woman.

3. Because there is no hazard of children, which irregularly produced may be attended with much inconvenience.

4. Because through more Experience they are more prudent and discreet in conducting an Intrigue to prevent Suspicion. The Commerce with them is therefore safer with regard to your reputation; and regard to theirs, if the Affair should happen to be known, considerate People might be inclined to excuse an old Woman, who would kindly take care of a young Man, form his manners by her good Councils, and prevent his ruining his Health and Fortune among mercenary Prostitutes.

5. Because in every Animal that walks upright, the Deficiency of the Fluids that fill the Muscles appears first in the highest Part. The Face first grows lank and Wrinkled; then the Neck; then the Breast and Arms; the lower parts continuing to the last as plump as ever; so that covering all above with a Basket, and regarding only what is below the Girdle, it is impossible of two Women to know an old one from a young one. And as in the Dark all Cats are grey, the Pleasure of Corporal Enjoyment with an old Woman is at least equal and frequently superior; every Knack being by Practice capable by improvement.

6. Because the sin is less. The Debauching of a Virgin may be her Ruin, and make her Life unhappy.

7. Because the Compunction is less. The having made a young Girl miserable may give you frequent bitter Reflections; none of which can attend making an old Woman happy.

8. 8th & lastly. They are so grateful!!! :):):)

Thus much for my Paradox. But still I advise you to marry immediately; being sincerely

Your Affectionate Friend,

Benj. Franklin

Prometheus

PeopleSmoks
09-19-2008, 12:16 AM
Hey guys! Yes, swede, FSUWs have nice legs too! And all FSUWs are not abundantly blessed in the busom, however, the ones who are blessed in this area don't have them flopping around their hips!!! They appear to be quite firm and well rounded... oh yea... and with NERTS that could put an eye out!!!!![:p]SORRY, I couldn't help myself with that last part.[B)]

Train returns

PeopleSmoks
09-19-2008, 10:32 PM
You know, despite the seeming drift toward a discussion of the FSUW anatomical blessings as being a focal point of a topic, the truth is, it is a part of the WM's attraction to FSUWs and really can't be ignored.
quote:I can't abide the fourletter words, the bad spelling, braggings and "I almost made it" stories, spiced with expressions like "hot babes" etc.I fully respect swede's wishes to keep this thread above all that, or at least for the most part. The occassional installment of "My Three Olgas" being a bit of a literatry diversion for me, and hopefully a fun distraction for those who read it. Although, I like to think that I blurr the reality of SOME parts of those shorts enough to get everyone to think a little.

However, sex, sexuality, sex-appeal, and of course, physical attractiveness, are certainly some of the things WMs look at when they, excuse me, WE, turn our heads, libidos, and wallets to the east!

It's undeniable, unless you happen to be living in denial! We certainly aren't spending all this hard earned cash to find an ugly woman??? But, as I learn more and more about what these women are, I wonder just how many WMs take the time to really find out what they're really getting into, and if they would still be so "gung-ho" about it?

A number of topics have been touched upon these passed weeks. Hopefully swede will drop anchor on one or two soon, so we might dig a little deeper?

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Prometheus
09-23-2008, 04:08 AM
quote:And quite contrary to the latest trend on 'Psychobabbling', I can only personally comment, that I haven't observed so much upper story natural endowments as you, but instead rather quite many wellshaped and wellexposed legs in FSU.

http://photo.ualadys.com/photos/0/9937/959172_83010.jpg

:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):) :):):):):):):):):)

PeopleSmoks
09-26-2008, 12:01 PM
Perhaps it's simply that the massive milk cannons are a focal point to American men, but there existence is beyond repute!
http://www.datemefree.org/photos_gallery.php?ID=81418
Here we can see the date me free scammer accentuating the area (her round mounds of male stress relief squeezy toys) which she wants perspective suckers to focus on.



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Prometheus
09-26-2008, 07:48 PM
I think the old ad said, "Lift and Separate. That's the Playtex 18 hour way." Someone should tell her they make bras that will do that for her, so she doesn't have to walk around cupping her tits like that all the time. LOL.

Smoks. I'm kind of bummed here in Prometheus land. Looks like my Olga is history, so now I'm contemplating a future life of independence. Good, but a little scary after so many years.

My friends are all saying to get out and play the field. I've got a friend who is tapping women half his age on a regular basis, and has the cell phone pics to prove it, but I'm a little appalled and not at all sure that a single father of two young kids is ready to become a dating machine. On the other hand, I'm not ready to be put out to pasture yet, and still dream there is someone out there I won't turn into a total bitch within 24 months of meeting me. (See they all start out great, but I bring the best out of everyone eventually, especially the Olgas).

So I'm thinking no one under 35. I've never dated anyone that old! (Think Jack Nicholson in Something's Gotta Give). The Movie Sleepless in Seattle suggested that a woman that age has a greater chance of being killed by a terrorist than finding a husband. But what's left in the gene pool after 3.5 decades? My fear is I'm going to run into a group of women that couldn't find anyone else, complete with competing idiosyncracies (competeing with my own that is, I have to be the center of attention), and a desire to change my absent minded professor demeanor into something I clearly am not (good husband material).

There's a great line in the Tao of Steve, where Syd says, "Don Giovanni slept with thousands of women because he was afraid he wouldn't be loved by one." I, on the other hand, thought I was loved by one, so now I guess I'm ready to sleep with thousands of women instead.

You're out there swimming around Smoks, how's the water? And do your Olga's have a sister?

PeopleSmoks
09-26-2008, 08:25 PM
Hey Prometheus! Haven't heard from swede lately. I wonder if his Polish, soon to be ex has gotten to him? Oh great-grandfather badger, please watch over our dear comrade and protect him from the demonic influences an FSUW can have over a mortal man!

Hey buddy, I know it's a total cliche, but it'll get better. I know from experience, only my heartache was a dirty little American heroin junkie wh@re named Jennifer, not an FSUW Olga. Hey, I'm still a tad bit bitter, but I've survived.

I certainly wish things were going better in the romance department, but it is what it is. Personaly, I devoted myself to the skank little pig and really got out of the game for more than 7 years. When it was time to get back in, it seemed the rules had changed and I never got the memo.

I've never been with a girl over 35 either. The wh@re was 26 when we got together. It could be an easier adjustment for you than it is for me though. I kind of have developed the male drive to continue the family name thing. This is the main reason for my consideration of younger than I might normally think about FSUWs for a prospective wife. I only say that dating slightly older, but still super attractive girls might be an easier transition for you is because you have kids to play with... I don't. It sucks.

Now some good news should you venture forth into the abyss that is FSU/MOB dating for another round... Statistics show that single, and especially never married, non-scammer FSUWs 30+, can be somewhat aggressive in their search for a suitable mate since the culture has already earmarked them as "old maids".

Also, I have read that these women aren't as over bearing as their slightly younger counter parts and are looking for a green card... I mean security and a gentle man more than anything else.

No matter what, you're going to feel the sting of the break up for a while. Sorry, no sugar coating from me. But, it WILL get better.

God d*mn it! I feel like Dr. Friggin' Phil just now!!!!!!!!!!!

Train returns

Prometheus
09-28-2008, 03:03 PM
Dr. Phil! Love it.

Well, they call this area psychobabbling for good reason. There only appear to be a half dozen or fewer posters who take advantage.

I'm actually kind of fired up and ready to ease back into life. My Olga is in a panic at the thought of her gravy train derailing. She asked me to meet her at a local restaurant for drinks and begged forgiveness, swore her other relationships "meant nothing," and that they were "completely over."

I didn't buy the store, but gave pause to consider my next step. I got home and my son handed me her iPhone. On the cover was a text message from one of the guys who "meant nothing" who was "completely over." The punch line? She'd had the phone for one day (I had turned off the account I paid for many years), so he could not have possibly even known the new number, unless she had called or text'd him the same day she met me to provide her new number to him.

As I've said before, I'm not the jealous type. If you don't want to be here with me, then there is the door. It just feels a little embarrassing to have all the things your friends and family have opined about for years become apparently very true in a short period.

So anyway, it's definately got to be an older Olga next time. The other thing, it's got to be someone who is crazier about me than the other way around. That's the real danger in an older western male taking up with a much younger FSU woman. The young Olga is always going to have the upper hand, because they've got a hell of a lot more men begging for a chance with them than their silverhaired mates. Not that I'm silverhaired mind you, but I will be, if I have any hair left by that time (other than the stuff growing out of my ears).

The kids are kind of psyched up about the whole thing ("Two Christmases!" See Talladega Nights, the Ballad of Ricky Bobby), so I guess I'll survive. Time to strap it on and ride it out. Change is always difficult, but the life after change does not have to be.

I'm through openly emoting for now. Thanks.

Prometheus

Prometheus
09-28-2008, 03:23 PM
So many Olgas, so little time:

Olga - Chernigov

http://www.army-of-brides.com/photo/Chernigov4/39319-8.jpg

Olga - Barnaul

http://www.army-of-brides.com/photo/Barnaul/14123-1.jpg

Olga - Odessa

http://www.army-of-brides.com/photo/Odessa11/13779-4.jpg

Olga - Nikolaev

http://www.army-of-brides.com/photo/Chernigov4/39319-8.jpg

Olga - Kaliningrad

http://www.army-of-brides.com/photo/Kaliningrad/2398-1.jpg

Olga - Izhevsk

http://www.army-of-brides.com/photo/Nikolaev2/4689-2.jpg

Olga - Nikolaev

http://www.army-of-brides.com/photo/Nikolaev16/16308-1.jpg

Olga - Zaporozhye

http://www.army-of-brides.com/photo/Zaporozhye/897-3.jpg

Olga - Vitebsk

http://www.army-of-brides.com/photo/INTERNET/14307-4.jpg

Olga - Chisinau

http://www.army-of-brides.com/photo/Chisinau3/16804-7.jpg

swede
09-28-2008, 04:02 PM
Hi Guys, sorry about the silence, but the recent period has been overburdened with the presence of my FSUW. Fixing the divorcepapers is now finished, but for various reasons, she's been hanging around a month more, than I intended. Contrary to you guys, I'm counting the days, till I'm alone again. It has been a drain on my energy.

Thanks for your sympathy PeopleS, your guesses and your prayers aren't far from the mark. Greatgrandfather Badger is somewhat helpful, but he considers me soggy, so he doesn't support me all the way.

Prometheus, I can only agree with PeopleS about time healing all wounds. And I talk from a very deep personal experience in this situation, because I usually suffer strongly from separation-anxiety (only not now). I believe this is much more a male problem than a female (partly based on male/female statistics on mental breakdowns after divorce etc, where men are making up 75%).

And after due consideration, I've come to the conclusion, that it often is something as simple as 'supply-panic'. I don't know how it is in the states, but here any decent-looking woman can go to the nearest single-place and get a man home after max a few hours. Whereas it would take a man maybe a couple of weeks to do the same. I know, that if I in such a situation immediately could find a new partner, short or long term, I wouldn't waste any tears on the past. It's a bit shameful to admit it, but there's a lot of pride and insecurity in such situations.

I think this is the reason that FSUM can be so 'cool' about the dating scenario. They know, that they have a slightly better chance than the women, and that makes them more macho, and thus even more interesting. There's nothing women despise more than men being persistant in a wimpy way. Probably a biological leftover from former times, when a man behaving like a wet sponge wouldn't be a good protector.

I must say, that I never have been a 'looser' in the sense of being the shy, unattractive guy, no woman would look at. I won't die curious, but I nevertheless suffer from the more idotic aspects of the war of the sexes; all the meaningless hunting, all the excessive whiskey every time it doesn't function and especially all the peacock behaviour sometimes needed.

So I've developed a special attitude to net-dating. It's convenient, and if you master the language reasonably well, it shouldn't cost more of your life than a modest sum every month at a decent dating-site. OK, a considerable part of the net-contacts I've met (at an intimate level), have been such I didn't wan't to live with permanently (alcoholism etc) after getting to know them, but to be cynic: It has helped me to avoid the feeling of being deserted. I'm not talking about actively seeking one-night stands or misusing anyone by giving out false information, but simply accepting offers from other lonely persons on the ground of 'maybe it functions, maybe not'. Two consenting adults and all that.

So Prometheus, don't sit too long in a negative spiral, but use the moments of lucidity, optimism and energy to open new contacts (because such moments will also come from time to time in between the gloom). If you're straight about it, this can be done in a completely morally correct way.

And guys; I wouldn't touch a woman under 40 with a pair of tongs, unless she was something so special, that it's unrealistic to think of. Older women are much more fun in every way.

PeopleSmoks
09-28-2008, 04:03 PM
Hey Prometheus! Talk about deja vous!!!
quote:If you don't want to be here with me, then there is the door. It just feels a little embarrassing to have all the things your friends and family have opined about for years become apparently very true in a short period.Hahahaha!!! Buddy, that is basically the exact same realization I had to go through 2 years ago about my ex the heroin junkie wh@re!!! I lived in denial of what was obvious to everyone around me, and it was such an embarrassment to face up to what that girl was, and still is. Simply not a good person.
quote:She asked me to meet her at a local restaurant for drinks and begged forgiveness, swore her other relationships "meant nothing," and that they were "completely over."For me, it was the Tuscan Tavern. Same scenario... dinner, drinks, etc... Only I was still stupid and took the b!tch back that time.

My dirty little heroin junkie wh@re was more careful with her cell phone though. She usually kept it pretty well hidden. I knew why, but as I said, I was living my own little lie so as not to face the reality of what was going on.

But, I fear that you may be rebounding to fast... I mean 10 Olgas??? Sounds like a mixture for an Olga OD. I recommend starting out with one, and gradually building a tolerance to the "Olga Effect" before increasing the size of your personal Olga harem. It's safer that way.

Train returns

PeopleSmoks
09-28-2008, 04:27 PM
Hey swede! Welcome back.
quote:Prometheus, I can only agree with PeopleS about time healing all wounds.Oh, I never said all wounds could be healed with time. It will get better, but sometimes the scars run very deep. 2 years later, and I have an annimosity toward my ex that is beyond my ability to fully describe without the overly abundant use of mulitple four letter explitives!
quote:I don't know how it is in the states, but here any decent-looking woman can go to the nearest single-place and get a man home after max a few hours.Same her. Again, my ex could walk into any bar in the area, have a dozen guys drooling over her and buying her drinks and take her pick of which one she'd be spreading her legs for... as long as he had the right drugs that she wanted that night.
quote:I think this is the reason that FSUM can be so 'cool' about the dating scenario. They know, that they have a slightly better chance than the women, and that makes them more macho, and thus even more interesting.Again, something I've talked about on occassion. The ratio of FSUWs to FSUMs highly favors the men. And with the ratio of attractive FSUWs to the less attractive, even the butt-ugliest of FSUMs can land himself a good looking younger girl.

What I've also been noticing on so many sites are the vast numbers of divorced, fairly young, very attractive FSUWs with 1 or 2 kids! This leads me to believe some of the stories about FSUMs just being out looking for a good time and not really wanting the baggage that comes with a serious long term relationship.
quote:And guys; I wouldn't touch a woman under 40 with a pair of tongs, unless she was something so special, that it's unrealistic to think of. Older women are much more fun in every way.And I may not be thinking about women under 40 after I have a few more birthdays, but for now, what I said about my personal desire is not only to find a good girl to marry, but to have a couple of kids. Over 40, may not want or be quite so able to have kids without help.

And swede, did you mean tongs... or thongs???[:0][:p]:D[8D]

Train returns

Prometheus
09-28-2008, 05:38 PM
Well, it appears we've all been in the same boat at various times.

People, my 1st wife was a Vicodin (hydrocodone) addict. I had no idea, until the OB pulled me aside and informed me she was killing our unborn child. She took them by the handfuls. 75 a day on average. I went through three trips to rehab, over $50,000 spent. She never stayed sober for more than a few days at a time. I finally joined NA-Anon, and realized "I didn't cause the problem, and I certainly couldn't cure it." I filed for divorce after coming home to find her passed out on the floor, and my baby crawling among the open pill bottles. I got custody and the house, etc. That was over 10 years ago.

So when I met my little Olga online, I thought, "This is perfect. I'll never even have to meet this person, much less date her." Well, as they say, one thing leads to another. She came over for a Christmas visit in 1999, overstayed her visa, and the rest is history.

She eventually tried to kick my first son out of the house after my second child was born, so I obtained a divorce in 2005. I have custody and the house again, this time for the child that we had together. We kept living together and have been doing it one day at a time now for three years.

Our entire time together has really been disspiriting. I'm not a bad looking guy, and I've always had luck with women. Olga though is in a perpetually bad mood, always too sensitive to be touched, always having her period, preparing for her period, or getting over her last period. Sex is sort of like inflicting maximum pain on someone. Great, if you're a sadist. Sad if you're a normal human being who craves some genuine intimacy. I realize now all of these are just the symptoms of a greater problem... she never loved me. When you are living the life of a prostitute, it's only natural to take out your self loathing on your John. She should have packed up for greener pastures a long time ago. Time to kick little bird out of the nest. She'll be flying in no time at all, I'm certain.

Prometheus

PeopleSmoks
09-29-2008, 07:13 PM
Prometheus, it's truly amazing how much of the same "poop" it seems we've both dealt with over the passed few years.

My ex, the dirty little heroin junkie wh@re, loved her pills too. Oxicontins were big with her for a while. She would grind them up and snort them. My understanding is that she also snorted the heroin, not slapping the vien like most junkies, although, she WAS a cutter. Apparently, I also spent a lot of money on cover up make up that I didn't know about. She also went through 60 xanax in less than 3 days at one point.

I feel bad sometimes, because a lot of damage has been done because of her. I still have some of her ex-husbands teeth somewhere. She told me he used to beat her up. He goes 6'2" about 220 and she's 5'3" 100 lbs soaking wet. She did have a chipped tooth when I met her, so I believed her story, thus, I have some of his teeth that were handed me by a very large friend in exchange for a bottle of Jack Daniel's and a 30 pack of beer.

All tolled, 3 or 4 guys have seen a hospital emergency room because of her, and one had a small fire in his house. Sadly for those poor bastards, I realized too late, that SHE was the problem and not them... or me!!!

I went through the rehab thing with her too. Actually, it was after I had walked out on her. She asked for help, and still feeling something for her, I came to the rescue... again... like a dumbass... I was the only person who visited her at all, and I was there... EVERYDAY after work until lock down!!!

The saga continued for almost another year before I finally came to the realization that this wh@re is what she is and she will never be anything more![V] Time to move on, but as I said before, it seems the rules have changed.

After that, I guess you can figure out how I ended up looking FSU/MOB!!!

Well, enough about that pile of human refuge! Check these Olgas out!!! All I can say is... "GOT MILK???"[:0][B)][:p]:D[:o)];)[}:)][8D]

http://www.datemefree.org/photos_gallery.php?ID=81560
http://www.datemefree.org/photos_gallery.php?ID=83750
http://www.datemefree.org/photos_gallery.php?ID=82629
http://www.datemefree.org/photos_gallery.php?ID=82720&pic_num=2
http://www.datemefree.org/photos_gallery.php?ID=80397&pic_num=2

Train returns

Prometheus
09-29-2008, 07:52 PM
LOL. That one was SOOOOOOOO close to a camel toe. And as I've mentioned before, they make bras that will do that for you honey, you don't have to walk around with your hands on your tits.

If you'll check your aol account, I sent you photos of my real life Olgas clubs. From both cities. I think you'll agree that one of my Oksanas outdoes any of the examples you just gave.

My little Olga thinks she's going to sex her way out of the current dilema, which is fine with me. Nothing better than desperation f*ck. I intend to enjoy as much of it as I can, use the digital recorder, and have something left to keep me warm for the long cold winter nights that lie ahead!

Prometheus Unbound.

Prometheus
09-29-2008, 08:57 PM
While were on the subject of Olgas with fun bags:

http://www.elenasmodels.com/photo/83295409.hugephoto.jpg

http://www.elenasmodels.com/photo/80574536.hugephoto.jpg

http://www.elenasmodels.com/photo/63539441.hugephoto.jpg

http://www.elenasmodels.com/photo/33909108.hugephoto.jpg

http://www.elenasmodels.com/photo/63559302.hugephoto.jpg

http://www.elenasmodels.com/photo/77461453.hugephoto.jpg

http://www.elenasmodels.com/photo/72986532.hugephoto.jpg

http://www.elenasmodels.com/photo/93396273.hugephoto.jpg

PeopleSmoks
09-30-2008, 08:16 PM
Hey guys! I have to set the Olgas aside for right now because I have a political bug up my @ss. As I'm sure the whole world knows, the US is in the middle of an election year. Okay, regardless of who wins, history will be made. Fine. Now, to the issues...

As both candidates make the standard promises, I do something that the people who vote do not... I ask the one word question that absolutely no politician anywhere ever wants to here... HOW?

I hear political commercials all day and night. All the same promises that I have heard from candidates from both parties in the past, and these are promises that get people elected... people who do nothing more than get a BJ from a fat chick in the Oval Office.

I won't mention any names, but I recall a guy telling us he would give the country universal health care a few years back. Some people don't seem to remember that for the first 2 years of his administration, HIS political party controlled both houses of our legislature, but nothing happened!!! They think he was a good President.[V]

Why? No, not why, but how!!! No one ever bothered to ask, "How will you do what you are promising us?" Now, more promises with no substance... no "how".

Oh, a little 911 fact for the American readers. An attempt was made during the G Bush years to close Pomona AFB and failed. It was closed during the fabled Clinton years. Why do I rant about the closed up AFB in Pomona, NJ? It WAS the home of the 177th fighter wing, and the closest AFB to NYC and the Pentagon.

Okay, I see US political choices as... financial instability and home security, or kick-ass promises of social reform with no way of making it happen and sh!t blowing up left and right.

TELL ME HOW YOU PLAN TO DO ALL THIS NEAT STUFF THAT THE SHEEPWALKERS ARE SWALLOWING!!!

Train returns

Prometheus
10-01-2008, 05:40 PM
Let's face it, with a $12 TRILLION national debt, there is little the next president can do in the way of new programs. We are at the mercy of China's willingness to continue to buy our debt, and the rates are preparing to climb. Unfortunately, it will be necessary to return to inflation to devalue this huge burden, much like we did in the seventies to pay for the Vietnam War.

I absolutely fear Sarah Palin in the Oval Office, as she is George Bush in drag to the tenth power. I'm voting for Obama, not as an answer to the world's problems, but at least the one who will inflict the least harm.

In the meantime, there are always the Olga's:

http://www.elenasmodels.com/photo/20475125.hugephoto.jpg

http://www.elenasmodels.com/photo/84315839.hugephoto.jpg

http://www.elenasmodels.com/photo/70181070.hugephoto.jpg

http://www.elenasmodels.com/photo/86151209.hugephoto.jpg

http://www.elenasmodels.com/photo/37709495.hugephoto.jpg

http://www.elenasmodels.com/photo/47949203.hugephoto.jpg

http://www.elenasmodels.com/photo/65686452.hugephoto.jpg

http://www.elenasmodels.com/photo/75159552.hugephoto.jpg

http://www.elenasmodels.com/photo/82236916.hugephoto.jpg

http://www.elenasmodels.com/photo/59472092.hugephoto.jpg

http://www.elenasmodels.com/photo/76091304.hugephoto.jpg

http://www.elenasmodels.com/photo/73603594.hugephoto.jpg

PeopleSmoks
10-01-2008, 07:24 PM
Hey Prometheus! It's not the debt, it's not Sarah Palin, it's my fear of having another "traveling show magic elixir salesman" in the white house again. Obama sounds too much like Bill Clinton with the promises he's making. I hear a lot of what he plans to do, but like Clinton, a noticable lack of HOW he's going to do it.

As I said, this country was promised universal health care 16 years ago, and after 8 years in Washington, all Clinton managed to do is kill a bunch of millitary bases, which usually kills the economy of the local towns and did, told the CIA "NO" when they reported they had located Osama Bin Laden and were prepared to neutralize the threat, corporate scandals, shady land deals and BJs from fat chicks in the Oval Office.

Okay, Iraq has become a seemingly endless money pit, but who do you think has a better chance of ending it in a way that won't make things worse? I hate to say it, but the economy will fix itself eventually. It always does. Where's Alan Greenspan???

Hey, vote for me! I won't crap on you with my campaign mumbo-jumbo! I plan to collect a nice salary, travel around the world, secure the best health benefits possible for myself for the rest of my life, find a really good speech writer who uses phonetic spelling so I don't sound too stupid when I use words containing more than two syllables, and have a library and aircraft carrier named after me!

Oh, and if something good happens, I'll take full credit for it, but if things go badly, I'll blame it on the failed policies of the previous administration!!![^]

A car in every garage, a chicken in every pot and an Olga in every boudoir!:D

http://www.datemefree.org/photos_gallery.php?ID=81403[:p]

Train returns

Prometheus
10-01-2008, 08:48 PM
Well, Bill Clinton only managed to oversee the longest sustained period of economic growth in American history, balanced the budget, run a surplus, and got some head in the Oval Office. I see your point.

That last Olga was a little too scrawny. Reminded me of my ex who had bullemia. She'd ralph up the contents of her stomach every night, after I'd fallen asleep. Too spooky. Problem is, when you've had the kind of ex'es we have had, it's almost like having PTSD. Just about any Olga can set you off without even knowing what she's done.

[8)] Speaking of NERTS:

http://www.elenasmodels.com/photo/97291779.hugephoto.jpg

PeopleSmoks
10-03-2008, 07:20 PM
Hey Prometheus! I'll give Billy C. the balanced budget, but I stil am not a fan of how he pulled it off. Remeber, a BIG chunk came from you and me when we were hit with the biggest tax hike in US history. G.B. Sr was politically crucified for his lesser increase. Also, as I had said, it was about 22% of the cash that came from millitary base closings.

It's not that I'm a war monger, but I fully support the millitary in every way. "Walk softly, but carry a big stick". Our millitary is the biggest stick in the world, and I kind of like it that way. Our generals just need to figure out new tactics to combat the threats at hand. Strategies don't seem to have change much since WWII, and terrorists don't play by those rules.

But back to the balancing act that was the Billy C. budget... Along with base closing come the deterioration of the local towns. Okay, the taxes collected from the people of these towns who have their jobs because of the demand brought on by base personell in no way ofsets the expense of the base, but these are peoples' lives I'm talking about.

The final monies that gave Billy his balance and even surplus was the way in which social security was figured into the equation. It was that sort of accounting that got everyone but Billy and Hilly in trouble over White Water, but it worked for him and so the budget was balanced.

I think the bottom line here is that you like Bill and I don't and you're intelligent and will find arguments to support him and I'll find something counter. I haven't had a good debate like this since ham disappeared. swede and I usually seem to end up agreeing. But the real issue is who would you rather have a heartbeat away from the Presidency, Joe "I got hair plugs to help my image and still lost the nomination" Biden, or Sarah "I wanna drill baby drill" Palin? Mmmmmmmmmmmmm drilling............[:p]

Drill and drilling being a reference to off shore oil exploration and no other meaning is implied.[:o)]

When taking a look at women world leaders in semi-recent years (decades), we have Margaret Thatcher[xx(], Golda Mier[xx(], Queen Elizabeth II[xx(]. Sarah Palin is no Olga, but she does look good!:D



Train returns

Prometheus
10-03-2008, 08:39 PM
People, went to "Army of Brides." They have a bikini catalog full of Olgas' chesticles:

http://www.army-of-brides.com/photo/bikini/39341-1.jpg
http://www.army-of-brides.com/photo/bikini/31750-4.jpg
http://www.army-of-brides.com/photo/bikini/39136-1.jpg
http://www.army-of-brides.com/photo/bikini/39357-1.jpg
http://www.army-of-brides.com/photo/bikini/36645-1.jpg
http://www.army-of-brides.com/photo/bikini/39335-1.jpg
http://www.army-of-brides.com/photo/bikini/39091-1.jpg
http://www.army-of-brides.com/photo/bikini/39132-1.jpg
http://www.army-of-brides.com/photo/bikini/39139-1.jpg
http://www.army-of-brides.com/photo/bikini/39137-1.jpg
http://www.army-of-brides.com/photo/bikini/39175-1.jpg
http://www.army-of-brides.com/photo/bikini/39064-1.jpg
http://www.army-of-brides.com/photo/bikini/39152-1.jpg
http://www.army-of-brides.com/photo/bikini/29691-1.jpg
And personal favorite:
http://www.army-of-brides.com/photo/bikini/38861-11.jpg

PeopleSmoks
10-04-2008, 12:04 PM
Why not just go to Brides in Bikinis?

Train returns

PeopleSmoks
10-04-2008, 03:47 PM
Hey guys! Just bought my tickets for trip number two. I'll be heading east on Nov. 12th. There's one girl in particular that I've been corresponding with that I will be meeting. Of course I have a couple of spares, but there is one who seems to be excited about my going to visit her.

One minor problem... she's only 23. Far from my first choice of age groups, but I figure "what the heck". Honestly, I'd prefer if the digits were reversed and she was 32, but...

Guess what... Her name is actually Olga!!![:0]

http://www.anastasia-international.com/Pages/Lady/Profile/ProfilePreview.aspx?LadyID=1111591

Train returns

Prometheus
10-06-2008, 12:00 PM
People,

I sent you an email about Olga to your aol account last night. Hope I did not offend, but as a guy who just climbed out a train wreck with a much too young FSU MOB, all I can do is waive a red flag.

Have fun, sure (who wouldn't like a roll in the hay with a 23 year old beauty), but DO NOT adopt a FSU daughter as your MOB. That is, unless you enjoy having the little pizda eat your beating heart while you watch.

Enough said.

Prometheus

PeopleSmoks
10-06-2008, 07:30 PM
Hey Prometheus! I didn't get that e-mail? Don't worry, you won't offend me if you resend it. I welcome your input.

Like I said though, I find her age to be a bit of a problem, but of all the FSUWs I've communicated with since I started down this path, she strikes me as being the most real in terms of maybe actually wanting to have a relationship with a WM.

Besides, there are still a few sites I didn't get to see on my last trip to Lugansk!

I recently had another FSUW send me a message on one of the numerous sites that I have a free membership on. I had communicated with her briefly a few months ago. She's 29 or 30, I don't recall off hand. Certainly more along the age that I am really looking for. She also speaks fairly good English. and also just happens to live in Lugansk. I'm thinking about spending a few USDs to the site so I can write back to her and maybe set up a meeting?

http://www.amazing-women.com/cgi-bin/view.cgi?id=am33210&p=16

I'm sure she looks a bit slight of build for your tastes, but personally, I go for the skinny ones. I figure there's less chance of winding up with a heffer in ten years![:0][}:)]:D



Train returns

Prometheus
10-06-2008, 08:02 PM
I like Elena's Models. It is a pay site, but you get real email addressess and can exchange phone numbers etc. Actually had the trouble with too many interested women there. Your mailbox fills up pretty fast and it's tough to keep the Olga's separated. Most of them seem very educated, doctors, lawyers, dentists, etc., but there are some beauticians with luscious hooters too.

PeopleSmoks
10-06-2008, 08:31 PM
I have a free membership there too. I find my mailbox fills up on every site. I have something like 400 letters on AW alone. Oh, and if you look at the profile, the "Elena" profile I linked is a doctor!!! Hey, I'll be the house b!tch for my FSUW doctor babe![:o)]

Train returns

PeopleSmoks
10-06-2008, 09:54 PM
I was flipping around through stuff and found something interesting.

http://www.bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/2005/12/100_year_bull_b.html

Now, I'm NOT about to suggest that King George's policies (or lack there of) have nothing to do with the current problems on Wall St. But, as this site suggests and more or less supports what I had said before about the natural up and down turns of the economy, I also have to wonder just how much of an effect the questionable bookeeping practices of the Clinton admin, as they "balanced" the budget, which lead to inflated Dow Jones growth oh so reminiscent of what the nation saw just prior to the Great Depression, is having on the present situation? Let's remember, Billy's admin saw no need to slow down the Dow as it pushed higher and higher under his watch.

One admin's overtly inflated economic success seems to have become the crushing burden based in reality of the sucsessor.

Train returns

Prometheus
10-06-2008, 11:49 PM
People,

Just promise me you'll wear out Olga's every orifice. I want a mature Natasha who'll let me have my deviant way AND bring home enough bacon to let me enjoy my toys.

My Lena is texting me sexy missives at 3 in the morning with tons of photos. Life is good.

Prometheus

PeopleSmoks
10-08-2008, 06:21 PM
Hey Prometheus! Honestly, wearing out any of Olga's orifices isn't the real purpose of my trip. Sure she's beautiful, and like any man I wouldn't exactly run away from a sexual encounter with a beautiful girl, but I'm hoping to get more out of this trip than that.

Still, just as with my first trip, I don't put so much emphasis on the girls I will meet. First and foremost, I once again plan to have a great vacation! As I had said before, and found it to be very true, make it a vacation first and a wife search as a bonus activity. The higher one's expectations are of romance, the bigger the fall if things don't work out.

It's easy for me because I was never a "world" traveller prior to going to Lugansk in March. I was fascinated and thrilled by the entire experience! I still have this excitement for the trip itself.:D Don't get me wrong, I will be thrilled if things work out for me this time, but I don't forsee me jumping off any local bridges if it doesn't.

I only wish my Russian was better so that I could just chat with other local girls and try to get a better feel for their mindset. I do know how to politely ask for a beer though![^]

At present, I plan to spend more than one day with my Olga. She has told me she is asking for time off from her work during the daytime so we can spend time together. We have also talked about a nice dinner date, dancing, etc. There are also a couple of other girls that I might try to meet with in Lugansk. One is the 29 year old doctor.

Something a little off the wall is that I also plan to write to the girl that blew me off the last time. Her birthday is coming October 25th and I figure I might send her happy birthday wishes and see what her response is.[}:)]

Well, right about now, I'm starting to wonder where swede got to?

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Prometheus
10-10-2008, 01:32 PM
Wish you great success. I'll go with you next time if this time works out.

PeopleSmoks
10-10-2008, 08:28 PM
Hey Prometheus! Ti po ruskie? Actually, I think I remember you telling me you do, and having married an Olga, it would make sense. It would be good to pal around Ukraine with someone who knows Russian. My friend Alex helps me out now, but he can't always be around.

I wish I had had more time to study in the months since my first trip. Things started well, and I learned a lot, but then work got so darned busy and I found myself just wanting to relax when I got home. It's been busy as heck since July! As I said, I can order a beer, and ask where's the toilet, which will be quite useful after a few beers![:o)]

Of course my knowledge goes a bit further than that, but not too much. Again, I try not to allow the apprehension of a pending meeting rule my thoughts to the point where a non-success will create a sense of failure and disappointment for me, and thus spoil my trip.

Maybe I'm able to be this way because international travel IS so new and different for me? Maybe I'm able to not have so much concern over the results of meeting these girls because I still carry the scars left by my time and split with my ex, the dirty little heroin junkie wh@re, and really don't expect a lot from women still? Either way, my trip isn't until November 12th, so I'll be around.

I guess if we don't hear from swede soon, we'll have to send out a search party? I know swede would love my conspiracy theories about his whereabouts!

1) His Polish, soon to be ex-wifey has worked her FSUW charms on him and he is currently being held captive in his secluded scandanavian domicile with her happy fun zone being thrown in his face.[:p]
2) She realized she wasn't going to get anything from the divorce, and he's buried under the wood pile out back.[V]
3) He forgot to pay his internet bill.[8]
4) The Swedish Secret Police got him.;)
5) The mad goat priests got to him.:(
6) He and great-grandfather badger are in the middle of a home brew binge and didn't invite us.:D
7) He made the mistake of going out and acquiring three Olgas of his own and they are holding him captive and bedazzling him with their spectacular N.E.R.T.S. as they force him to dig them a swimming pool!!![:0][:p]:D[:o)][8D]


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PeopleSmoks
10-10-2008, 09:12 PM
Here's one that I just got a letter from!

http://www.amazing-women.com/cgi-bin/view.cgi?id=am39304&p=2

Her profile says she has a little girl. She must have been well fed as a baby!!!

This also brings up a point that I've touched on from time to time... So many relatively young women with kids and no man? I have noticed this more and more lately. The saying goes, "Where there's smoke, there's fire...". Maybe there's a bit of truth to the stories of FSUMs being out looking for a good time and no responsibility?

I'm going hook, line, and sinker for all the propaganda, but it does make a thinking man stop and go Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?????????????

Train returns

dreamsr
10-11-2008, 02:45 PM
Hey guys you know what just struck me, we have been going about this all wrong all along. We three or four if we can find swede need to start our own modeling agencies. Let those hotties come to us and we pick, choose and refuse and the best part... they all work for us.[^]

Prometheus
10-11-2008, 03:44 PM
People, you left out "encounter with Russian mafioski." That's my biggest fear. Olga's father "knows some people," I've been warned in the heat of an argument or two. I told the local police department that she's promised to kill me and "she's kept every promise she's ever made, except the one to be faithful to me." They may never find my body, but at least they'll have a suspect. [8]

Prometheus
10-11-2008, 03:46 PM
Talk about N.E.R.T.S.! Jeeze People, where did you find this one? I bet the little girl's father, the milkman, and a traveling salesman or two were well fed as well. I'm gonna write a screenplay about that one![}:)]

Prometheus
10-11-2008, 07:06 PM
People, here's my current stable of would be Ms. Prometheuses. Give me your thoughts on the face value, they are all more in my age group:

Irina: http://www.elenasmodels.com/photo/30162048.hugephoto.jpg

Larisa: http://www.elenasmodels.com/photo/46665856.hugephoto.jpg

Svetlana (I know what you're going to comment on, and yes they are real): http://www.elenasmodels.com/photo/71775855.hugephoto.jpg

Tatyana: http://www.elenasmodels.com/photo/63182229.hugephoto.jpg

and my personal favorite

Victoria: http://www.elenasmodels.com/photo/99863403.hugephoto.jpg

I will note that the formerly noted Lena, turned out to be a bit of a psycho, texting and emailing all day and night. She took down her page after maybe three days (which she did not discuss with me, nor did I ask for her exclusive attention), then she went neurotic when I mentioned getting my kher near her pizda. If there's one thing I don't need at my age is another prudish demanding woman.

When I politely told her "thanks but no thanks," she sent me about 10 more emails demanding an explanation and complained about me to the service. That I had "deceived" her! So there is plenty of insanity among women of a certain age on both sides of the big pond.

PeopleSmoks
10-11-2008, 08:26 PM
Hey guys! What a week! At the age of 45, I'm simply NOT a 50 hour a week man! But, it's better than the 60+ hrs/ week I was doing in mid-summer! I can't b!tch too much though. It's the fact that I have this job that I can afford to pop over to FSUW territory twice in one year, and it's not the overtime pay, but the fact that if my manager asks, I do what I can to help that he approves my two vacations in one calendar year! Bottom line though, is that I'm friggin' beat right now and have about five or six FSUWs I need to write to... But you guys are more fun!:D

dreamsr, the thought of saving all my spare cash, moving to Ukraine, recruiting a bunch of beauties and openning my own scam agency has crossed my mind.[}:)] With minimal start up cash, and someone who speaks English, Ukrainian and Russian on the payrol, I think it would be possible to set up a scam agency and turn a profit in a matter of a couple months.

Of course, to expand the stable, you could "steal" profiles and photos off the web! What I've learned is that there is a difference between an agency and a website! Excuse me for boring you guys if you already know this, but if you don't... The girls, legitimate or not, report to local agencies in their city which may in fact be affiliated with more than one website.

I've written to girls who's profile I had seen on more than one site, that did not know what site I was talking about because they simply go to the local agency for their e-mails, messages etc. The point here is that an agency can post a scam profile on a number of sites for maximum exposure.[:0]
quote:When I politely told her "thanks but no thanks," she sent me about 10 more emails demanding an explanation and complained about me to the service. That I had "deceived" her! So there is plenty of insanity among women of a certain age on both sides of the big pond.PMS or menopause? Or, simply a psychopath???
quote:Olga's father "knows some people," Yea yea yea. My ex use to try to feed me the same load of crap. Her uncle road with The Pagans, and she's friends with a bunch of them... Okay, her uncle did ride with The Pagans, but, it would seem that I happen to get along better with the guys she "knows" than she does. She's just another wh@re to them! Besides, I've gotten drunk off my @ss with the acting President of The Pagans and the Sargeant at Arms, covered the back of the son of the former Pres in a bar brawl, got drunk with the late Pres of The Warlocks while his wife bartended, was recruited by The Fools and POW/MIAs and rode with the Pres of The Breed.

My ace in the hole? I've enjoyed some pretty darned good dinners at the parents house of the Pres of the Angels and am good friends with a bunch of those guys. We ride together from time to time. My ex sh!t her pants when she found out all of this!!! I know where there are some holes out in Wharton State Park, NJ. So guess what? Now YOU know some people too![8D]

As for those gargantuan, well rounded milk bottles, Amazing-Women.com. It's one of the sites that I've had a free membership on for over a year at least, but never bothered with until Elena the doctor from Lugansk caught my eye. I've received over 400 letters, but never bothered.

Prometheus, all five of the ladies are quite lovely. Looks like you have a tough choice coming. As I've said, my thing is to find several girls in the same city to try to maximize meeting potential while minimizing travel!



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PeopleSmoks
10-12-2008, 02:19 PM
Hey everybody! For those who give a sh!t, I'll be shutting down that website that I have with assorted scammer pics etc. I had a problem with my verizon dsl connection and after more than a month of them not doing anything to fix it while I was still paying for service, I finally had Comcast come and set up a cable modem for me. So, I'm cancelling my verizon account and the site will be going with it. Let's face it, I really haven't had time to update things there anyway! I hope you guys enjoyed it while it was online.[8D]

Train returns

swede
10-13-2008, 06:04 AM
Have been ill a couple of weeks, but will return as soon as I'm up and around again. In the meantime I'll just enjoy your posts.

Prometheus
10-13-2008, 08:54 AM
Glad to hear your still breathing swede. Hope you're feeling fine in no time.

Prometheus
10-13-2008, 02:10 PM
People. When I find FSU MOB NERTS, in all their resplendent glory, I just have to post them here for you!

http://www.elenasmodels.com/photo/60455862.hugephoto.jpg

One out of three Russian bras are in need of assistance:

http://www.elenasmodels.com/photo/58923241.hugephoto.jpg

I've always loved the Russian name Margarita. You don't know whether to kiss her or stick a straw in and drink! Of course, this woman can find no man in her own village with whom to find love:

http://www.elenasmodels.com/photo/65001557.hugephoto.jpg

A fight might break out over this next one. Breasticles for People, and miles of legs for Swede:

http://www.elenasmodels.com/photo/25765599.hugephoto.jpg

Nevermind, she has a friend! "NERTS and legs for everyone!"

http://www.elenasmodels.com/photo/53887625.hugephoto.jpg

And yes, this one's name actually is "Olga" (of course). Her profile says, "I work as an elementary school teacher and also give private lessons." Those are lessons I would gladly pay to take! :D

http://www.elenasmodels.com/photo/42480361.hugephoto.jpg

PeopleSmoks
10-13-2008, 06:48 PM
Feel better soon swede! The wifey didn't try to poison you did she?:(

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Prometheus
10-13-2008, 09:02 PM
Hey People, you just topped 500 post and hit the "Advanced" category, what are you doing next?

"I'm going to FSUW Land!"

http://photo.ualadys.com/photos/0/147/961116_22692.jpg
http://photo.ualadys.com/photos/0/7093/962068_67994.jpg
http://photo.ualadys.com/photos/0/6181/962313_74479.jpg

PeopleSmoks
10-14-2008, 10:10 PM
Hey Prometheus! Hey MIA swede! Here are a couple of sweet little FSUWs that I thought I might share with you...:D

http://www.datemefree.org/profile.php?ID=51248

http://www.datemefree.org/profile.php?ID=51251

Give me your honest opinion of these two FSUWs[:p]

And yup, I'm headin' off to FSUW land, but first, I think I'm going to a local strip bar! Don't worry guys, I've learned my lesson. I won't take home anything I pick up like I did with my ex who turned out to be nothing more than a no good heroin junkie wh@re!

This time, do what I need to in the parking lot and go home... alone![}:)][8D]

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Prometheus
10-15-2008, 10:01 AM
People, Love you like a brother but these two NERTilicious FSU babes have "heroin junkie" written all over them. I say have fun but leave your heart and wallet someplace safe. I have a buddy who fell in love at the tittie bar twice. Swede and I have gone the FSU MOB route. It's a jungle out there. We all like to think we'll be the exception to the general rule, but that is why they are called "rules." I'm flying into Mexican drug territory this a.m. Can't decide which target goes with this suit. See you here soon.

scamfree
10-16-2008, 09:56 AM
Hey people
If your going all that way, over there and its not working out with the dates your got. Check some of these girls out, on this site hot as and if you get it they all put out for the right price.russiansexbombs_com.hottest chicks ive ever seen.

Prometheus
10-16-2008, 01:39 PM
I?m in Mexico at the moment enjoying the most fantastic trade junket as the alcalde?s (mayor?s) guest.

Sitting next to our Learjet?s pilot at dinner last night, and after a few drinks he starts telling me about how a Ukrainian doctor named Inna used his heart as silly putty, cleaned out his lifetime?s savings, and left him on the side of the road still smoldering. I tell you there?s a Western male taken to lunch every 15 minutes on this planet. It?s the FSU?s biggest growth industry.

PeopleSmoks
10-16-2008, 09:11 PM
Hey guys! scamfree, during my time of FSUW hunting, I've crossed quite a number of different sites pertaining to the general subject of FSU/MOB. Russiansexbombs_com is just one of the many. I don't really know what to make of it. The site flat out states that it's a meet a prostitute site, but they also want to charge memberships etc... Hey, if all a guy wants is an FSU hooker, there are plenty of websites for various FSU escort services that advertise without membership fees. Obviously, I've given some thought to how I will kill time between my international flight landing at Borispol airport and my connecting flight to Lugansk![:0]:D

A few of these websites offer airport pick up and drop off services as well as the regular services one would expect and even specifically cater to flight lay over customers as advertised on the sites. Sex tourism is a thriving business, especially in Kiev because it [b]IS the main hub of travel around Ukraine. Moscow and St. Petersberg have similar services available to those who travel to those cities.

Prometheus, we've both learned that things in the FSU aren't always what they seem. Even when you take the girl out of the FSU, it's hard to get the FSU out of the girl. I've read several articles online about FSU scamming and the FSU mentality toward scamming. Again, because my search is focused toward Ukraine, the articles pertained to Ukraine, but I would imagine Russia and other FSU countries would be similar?

The articles I read do more than suggest, but pretty much state, that scamming WMs is considered to be an okay profession.[V] Many local authorities don't see a problem with it and thus the reason it can be so hard to prosecute. Scamming brings needed international money to these country's economies, and especially on the local level, even though it may not be taxed, it IS spent within the community at large... maybe some going to the local law enforement to turn a blind eye when some shmuck from Bumf@ck, Arkansas, USA complains that some girl named Olga just conned him out of a couple hundred bucks.[:o)]

As for Mexico, are you thinking south of the border for your next wife search? There are a lot of sites that also push women with a Latino flavor! Aye carrumba!!!! Only one thing about Latino girls, they may just shut up if they get pissed at you and wait for you to go to sleep... then you wake up to find your manhood in her hand, which might sound good at first, but she's standing on the other side of the room with a switch blade in her other hand!!!!!!!!!!![:0][:0][:0][:0][:0][:0][:0][:0][:0][:0]

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Prometheus
10-16-2008, 11:43 PM
LOL, I'm sitting at the private aviation terminal waiting on my ride.

I've had Latina girlfriends, as 40% of my state's population is Hispanic. I'm ambivalent. The alcalde of the town I visited has a harem of smoking hot girls he said he'll hook me up with on my next visit, which will be soon.

My pilot was almost blubbering over his lost Ukrainian love last night. I am pretty jaded and doubt that "true love" exists. It's basically a social contract where both sides hope to get out as much, or more, than they invest.

FSUW, particularly the young hot ones, will never give their Western durak (fool) the time of day in the end, BECAUSE THEY DO NOT RESPECT YOU. They believe any man who is willing to sacrifice for and unconditionally love a woman is a durak who DESERVES their avarice.

My name is Gump, Forrest Gump.

jake122969
10-17-2008, 05:23 PM
Greetings friends Ive been MIA for a while but always enjoy following this thread. Speaking of Sexbombs look what popped in to say hi to me:

Hello my friend Michael!
I am grateful for your attention and that you opened my letter. I know the price of time and I hope that having read my letter to the end you won?t regret.
My full name is Natalia or Natasha. All relatives and friends name me Tasha. I live in Kharkov and bring up my daughter and her happiness is the part of my life. She is 15 year old, I was married, but it was so much time ago that it seems to me it was in some other life. By character I am an optimist, target-going person. All my dreams and ideas I try to realize. I have a medical diploma and have opened several my own medical cabinets on face plastic. My interests are various and my friends wonder when I manage to do all that. My hobby is image studio. My sports interests are box, swimming-pool. I like to cook. I like animals and I have a cat Markiz and a dog Malish. I like nature, sea, sun (besides, I can run yacht). I like life and hurry to live and everything is wonderful in my life. Though I lie a little. Everything would be wonderful if there was a loving man next to me, with whom I could share my dreams, who would support me, give me a piece of advice and was next to me. Happiness and success shared between two people grow twice. I hope you don?t grudge the time spent and you will decide to answer me. I will wait for it.
Sincerely,Tasha (Natasha).

http://www.amazing-women.com/lady/scriptm33631.html

Prometheus
10-17-2008, 06:53 PM
jake,

Talk about lips that could "suck the chrome off a trailer hitch"! I'd advise not putting anything in that mouth that you plan to keep. http://www.amazing-women.com/photo/Kharkov26/33631-1.jpg I've heard of bee stung, but this is more like Angelina Jolie on steroids! :D

Hey, I just want to say, who says that UALadys.com does not have chaste, virginal, women with little experience? Oops, someone forgot to give 19 year old Olesya Y. #9945 that memo! [:p]

http://photo.ualadys.com/photos/0/9945/959556_82375.jpg

http://photo.ualadys.com/photos/0/9945/959558_37294.jpg

http://photo.ualadys.com/photos/0/9945/959554_50692.jpg

http://photo.ualadys.com/photos/0/9945/959555_8379.jpg

LOL. People this little malishka has NERTS and a new one, CERTS! :):):)

http://photo.ualadys.com/photos/0/9945/959553_65534.jpg

PeopleSmoks
10-17-2008, 07:52 PM
Hey guys! jake, I just got home and went through my e-mail, and apparently Tasha has also sent me a letter at amazing-women.com. She must be new and sending out her mass mailings to see how many she can catch in her net? I didn't know that botox lips had reached the FSU yet, but I guess they have judging from this one![:X]

Prometheus, lovely Olesya seems like a nice girl to me. Everyone gets a chance. I've said before that the more I learn about FSU culture, Ukraine in particular, that things become a bit more gray when it comes to some of the pics in some of the profiles. Nude pics, still seem to be a scammer's way of trying to sink the hook, but merely sexy pics strike me as still being possibly legit.

As I mentioned when I returned from my first trip to Lugansk, the women there dress to impress. Whether it's to impress men, or each other, I would say it's a toss up. But, they DO dress quite sexy!!![:p]

Train returns

Prometheus
10-17-2008, 08:30 PM
Just keeping things interesting People; keeping it interesting.

PeopleSmoks
10-17-2008, 08:40 PM
Oh, don't mind me, Prometheus. Just the desperate rantings of another durak as he tries to reason out that there are still "real" FSUWs out there in FSU/MOB land, right before he prepares to get on a plane again![B)]

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Prometheus
10-18-2008, 05:16 PM
People,

If it helps, and I don't know what Swede's experience was, but I corresponded with my FSU MOB at length before making the trip, even exchanging "I love you's," and "I want to spend my life with you's," I made the trip only to see her, she returned the favor, and we have been together (happily and unhappily) ever since.

I've tried the "correspondence with a smorgasbord" approach before, but women can smell a player from a mile away, as can men. When you write at length about a personal experience and ask for comments, but instead get a "Dear [insert name here], today was a lovely day in Lugansk" response, I'm just like "what the ****?"

I agree that it is impossible to enter into a serious commitment without time alone face to face with your would-be MOB, but I think getting four or five girls in a local area to interview is much less likely to result in a successful match, than focusing in on a girl you really could see yourself being involved with for the long term.

Swede what are your thoughts?

PeopleSmoks
10-18-2008, 06:28 PM
Hey Prometheus! I guess that swede still hasn't fully recovered from his last bout with whatever ails him? I hope he feels better and is back in form and online soon.
quote:I've tried the "correspondence with a smorgasbord" approach before, but women can smell a player from a mile away, as can men. A very true statement regarding smelling a player. I tend to take a serious, yet guarded approach to the whole FSU/MOB wife search issue and in fact, women in general. Hey, it's a defense mechanism that seems to work for me pretty well so far. Trust me, there's a deep psychosis behind it all, brought on by the years I spent giving my heart to a dirty little heroin junkie wh@re, who thought of me with as much regard as used toilet paper.:(

Honestly, what I've tried to do is to write to one, maybe two girls that really interest me, and seem to show a real interest in me. I know, I know... my Olga, and yup that's really her name, is only 23 and quite a bit younger than my search age group, but our letters are a conversation. Questions, responses, etc on a subject that actually continue for more than one letter. We've been corresponding for about 8 months, and across 2 different sites. We tried to arrange a meeting during my first trip, but I had problems with the site getting it set up. She left that agency, and that website soon after. I found her at a different site, and she remembered some of the things we had talked about, so I figured it wasn't just a translator doing his/her job. Let's be honest, Olga is young and sexy! I'm pretty sure that I wasn't the ONLY guy she was corresponding with, so the fact that she remembered even SOME of our discussion kind of impressed me!!!

No, I'm not particularly looking for a 23 yo, but what the heck if that's what ends up happening? Still, there is a very distict possibility that we will meet, and simply find that there's no real feelings, or we flat out don't like each other for whatever reason. Now, I'm switching back to making the trip into a fun vacation mode! Okay, Olga and I don't see eye to eye after meeting face to face... what's next? Sulk in my rented flat??? Not me buddy!!! I'm still going to enjoy seeing Lugansk, going to discos, clubs, bars, seeing sites etc, but why not see it with a back up date? or two???[:0]

And who knows, maybe I'll hit it off with the next girl? Okay, it might sound a bit cold hearted, but if I hit it off with my sweet Olya, I can easily blow off the other girls can't I???

I think the key thing is to let the girl know that you have serious intentions about your search for a wife/ soulmate/ second half, but you simply see no reason to waste time writing letter after letter without ever meeting face to face and that you feel that only a real meeting will let both of you know if you will really like each other, get along, and will maybe fall in love with each other, or do fall in love right then and there?

But, it's always good to have a plan B, even if plan B is only to have a casual date or two with a pretty girl (who isn't a Kiev prostitute) while on vacation. Again, my thing is to have fun and enjoy my vacation!!! Believe me, I would LOVE to meet Olga, we gaze into each other's eyes and fall madly and passionately in love!!!!! But, like I also said before, I won't be jumping off any bridges in Lugansk if that's not how it works out!:)

I will say that if something doesn't come of this trip, that I don't plan to head east again any time soon. Maybe just a break? Maybe I'll check out them there latinas!!!!![:p]:D[8D]

Train returns

Prometheus
10-19-2008, 08:17 AM
Latinas tour begins next month, I'll certianly report the facts here. :D

swede
10-19-2008, 05:52 PM
Hi guys,

I haven't deserted you yet, but I've been completely drained of energy the last couple of weeks. I needed solitude after a couple of months together with wifey (we're still not legally divorced, the documents are around somewhere with the local authorities), and now when she's finally away again, I have been enjoying the deep silence for a while, trying to recharge.

It's a really strange paradox with FSUW, but before I continue, it must be remembered, that the age group I've had contact with probably differs a lot from those in their twenties or thirties, so maybe my experiences can't be compared to yours.

But what I have experienced is that these women have two parts in their character. One which makes me climb the walls in frustration because of the almost total lack of real communication. As I so often have been complaining about, they seem to be living in a private soap-opera, where signals from the outer world seldom get through. You could just as well live together with a plasticdoll concerning the amount of two-way communication. And besides it requires a lot of taking responsibility on their part, because of their not listening much to any information they recieve. It's exhausting.

On the other hand 'real' FSUW have all these characteristics, which a WM appreciates. They are feminine, faithful, intelligent, with a great sense of humour and enthusiastic physical lovers (though not creative, it's more quantity than quality).

And to return to the recent theme here, they are not coy. In the relationships I've had, it didn't take long time to get a direct answer on the question of making a one-to-one contact (meaning exclusive contact until a meeeting takes place). I do not believe, that it is possible to make 100% sure about a relationship before a meeting takes place, but a lot can be said through mails and telephonecalls. At least so much, that both parts can agree on a pause from other contacts, concentrating on one possibility.

This has functioned for start in my case (and one of those relationships lasted almost 12 years, so it's not sextourism one-night-stands I'm talking about), but then I'm from an older generation with slightly different values, as these women also were. Personally I would feel uncertain about going to FSU with the intention of looking at a group of potential women, but I guess this is a question of individual inclination.

But I think, that a 'real' FSUW would appreciate such an arrangement, and even from the start expect some involvment. So in my netdating period, I even restricted my communication to the very few possibilities, where a chance of deeper contact existed, making them more personal and less meatmarket-like.

Without stressing the point, I feel that I both as a person, on background of my age and as a european maybe find it easier to commit myself emotionally, than the average american man would. The war of the sexes looks much more brutal in the states, than it does here, and in this way I'm probably closer to a FSUW.

On the other hand I also fall into some pretty horrible emotional situations from time to time because of this.

Prometheus
10-19-2008, 08:21 PM
Thank you Swede, and I agree 100% based on shared experiences, and as an American in the trenches (Go Obama!).

swede
10-20-2008, 08:13 AM
About half a year ago PeopleS and I started on one of our usual parallel topics, this one was about 'patterns'. I do believe, that everything is connected, that "the wings of a butterfly in Brazil can start a storm somewhere else". This is not a result of a religious ideology, but more based on analytical and pragmatic reasons.

PeopleS, you recently wrote, that you and I mostly agree, which is true. But there are things, we don't agree about, only I like and respect you too much to make a fuss about it. And one of those things is what I would call national, ethnic, cultural etc characteristics, which differ. As you often (correctly) has pointed out, women are women, not matter where they live or where they come from. I have no problems with that statement. But then you can subdivide women (and men for that sake) into subgroups, and there a lot of significant differences will turn up.

Taken on average, but ofcourse admitting fluctuations inside the various groups, where some individuals are so far from the norm as to be almost something else, .....on average there is something typical of, say frenchmen, muslims, commies, americans....., distinguishing that group from other groups. This subdivision goes all the way down to individual level.

But for the purpose here, I will persist in taking FSUW as a typical group, with distinct patterns. In my last post I mentioned the two paradoxial parts of FSUW, and I would embroider a bit more on that, though it's a difficult subject. I have always found it extremely complicated to put my finger precisely on what it is, which is so typical of FSUW. It's almost like they suffer from a mild case of multiple personalities, where their two most prominent personality parts are at odds with each other.

One part is the lovely, feminine, family oriented part, which sometimes is so meek, that it looks as if it is taken from a muslim's paradise.

The other part is the unwillingness or inability to react adequate inside a relationship (or sometimes to life in general), when it comes to even the simplest activities. I'm aware of the rather strong sexist roles implied in a 'strong' male 'bossing' a 'weak' woman, also of the responsibilities such a man must take upon himself in this kind of relationship, as f.ex. being the one who supplies the practical and economical support for a family. But there is a limit for even such a relatively dominant personality such as myself. If the man must take on a role of total control, and the woman is into hedonistic apathy, it's gone too far.

I'm not able to give any deep answers to such an extremely polarised situation in a relationship (dictator-husband/scriptpathic-submissive-wife), I have my personal shortcomings like anyone else, but personally I find it unbearable, that I in all my FSU relationships repeatedly have been FORCED to say: "Do not press the red button under any circumstances. I repeat, DO not press the red button. DO NOT PRESS the red button" and wifey, with something like a university education behind her, happily smiles and nods; and when you then come home from work, the red button has ofcourse been pressed, and a flood of denials about it ever being mentioned pours over you. Continuing with excuses of insufficient knowledge of the common language and ending with outright lies or accusations of lies.

In many cases the red button can be exchanged with a common/mutual bankaccount.

Conflicts are unavoidable, and if you have the bad luck to meet a FSUW with an unsteady temperament on top of that (like a PMS type), life will be a hellish roller-coaster.

I'm far from being a saint, but if I after some consideration can see dysfunctionality in myself, and I want to continue a relationship, I simply have to change to the better. And it's here, that the typical FSUW paradox steps in. I've had an interminable amount of discussions, fights and conflicts about 'red buttons' (and in one case my credit card), and these FSUW CAN eventually see, that they must take responsibility somewhere. But it takes the equalent of a mental earthquake to make them change their ways practically. Tomorrow will bring a new 'red button', no matter what you do or say.

I remember that you, Prometheus, once complained about your roller-coaster relationship, and I can see, that you agree with at least some of my conclusions. It's a bit sad, that my only WW comparison to the negative part of FSUW is PeopleS heroinist exgirlfriend or in my own case some alcoholic women. The same type of laissez-faire/'I don't give a damn' attitude.

Prometheus
10-20-2008, 11:22 AM
quote:Conflicts are unavoidable, and if you have the bad luck to meet a FSUW with an unsteady temperament on top of that (like a PMS type), life will be a hellish roller-coaster.
My FSUW is either having a period, getting ready to have a period, or just getting over having a period. If I touch her breasts "they hurt," if God forbid, I attempt to touch her pizda, "it hurts." If I try to kiss her "you'll make me late for work." If I hug her, "not in front of the children." IT'S BEEN LIKE THAT FOR SIX YEARS AND I AM SICK AND TIRED OF BEING SICK AND TIRED.


quote:
I'm far from being a saint, but if I after some consideration can see dysfunctionality in myself, and I want to continue a relationship, I simply have to change to the better. And it's here, that the typical FSUW paradox steps in. I've had an interminable amount of discussions, fights and conflicts about 'red buttons' (and in one case my credit card), and these FSUW CAN eventually see, that they must take responsibility somewhere. But it takes the equalent of a mental earthquake to make them change their ways practically.
You are far too optimistic Swede. As I've said before, if Hitler could not bend the Russian will in 900 days at Leningrad, what chance does a Western male possibly have??? It will all come back to something you said or did, and her horrid behavior will ultimately be blamed on you.

This weekend, I'm watching the children and doing housework (I am an enslaved male), and miss FSU comes home to complain that I'm running a separate load solely for her black items. She has an absolute paranoia of even a spec of lint on her clothing, and I've found its just easier to wash them separately than hear her bitch. So after arguing about whether or not there will be a future argument, I relent and wash her blacks with her undergarments in a delicate cycle with Woolite (yes I have a vagina).

I'm folding an hour later, and she picks up her black leotards and starts screaming (yes SCREAMING) that her leotards have lint, and "YOU HAVE RUINED THEM! I WILL HAVE TO BUY A NEW PAIR!!!!"

This is life at my house. Fortunately, I still had some vodka. Unfortunately, I forgot to log out of my laptop, and she found my webpage at a FSU (I am a masochist) website. She changed my settings so that I am now a "300 lb. African American" seeking a woman from Samoa. Then she emails all of my contacts with some profantiy, ensuring that I have now offended several people I actually like, and who certainly didn't deserve that (since all they are seeking is to exploit a Western male half as effectively as my little puta already has). Jeeze. Are you laughing yet? It's kind of funny, if you're not living it.

"Rainy days and Mondays, always get me down." -- Karen Carpenter

PeopleSmoks
10-20-2008, 11:39 AM
Hey guys! Good to hear from you swede!
quote:On the other hand 'real' FSUW have all these characteristics, which a WM appreciates. They are feminine, faithful, intelligent, with a great sense of humour and enthusiastic physical lovers (though not creative, it's more quantity than quality).And it's these qualities, for the most part, that non sex tourist WMs have such desire to find in our search to the FSU for a bride. These qualities certainly do exist in WWs, but in not such abundance as it SEEMS to be amongst FSUWs.
quote:Personally I would feel uncertain about going to FSU with the intention of looking at a group of potential women, but I guess this is a question of individual inclination.I hope it's clear that my personal intentions aren't to engage in a speed dating frolic through Lugansk. I have a particular girl that I plan to meet, however, I do have "back ups", just in case things simply don't work out with my lovely and probably altogether too young Olga.

As I often say, enjoy the vacation! So, my thoughts are, if Olga and I go out on a date on the first day of my trip and find that there's no "magic", or simply don't get along, why should I spend the remainder of my trip site seeing alone? Even if romance isn't the goal at this point, why not enjoy a few dates with a beautiful girl or two? And at this point, who knows, perhaps something "clicks" between girl number two and me that is totally unplanned?

I think that a great deal of the disappointments that so many of us experience is our own fault for building such wild and unfounded expectations of the pending meeting. In some scenarios, WMs seem to pre-dispose themselves to the ideal that they will meet their FSU honey, gaze into each other's eyes and fall madly in love! And when it doesn't happen that way, they are crushed by their own over anticipation of success.
quote:Without stressing the point, I feel that I both as a person, on background of my age and as a european maybe find it easier to commit myself emotionally, than the average american man would.Your age and Eurpoean background may have something to do with your ability to make a commitment. I really can't speak for other AMs on this. My personal history concerning my ex, the dirty little heroin junkie wh@re, has alot, if not everything to do with my current inability to make such a declaration, especially prior to ever meeting a girl.

Yes, swede, I believe that women are women regardless of where they're from, but admittedly, there are some specifics that can be attributed to other inputs such as social, ethnic and economics as well as cultures. I have done some research into FSU culture, Ukraine, and even more specifically the Lugansk region, in an effort to better understand where these women come from and to try to get a grip on what really motivates them.

It can be a bit confusing to say the least! Your statement about the expectation of the man to take the lead role in a relationship is one of the slightly confusing aspects of the FSUW. Perhaps this is something that is in part more a characteristic of a slightly older generation? I see it as something the younger girls submit to as a means to appease their western suitors, as it is something they are taught they need to do to find a western mate, but it's not so much a part of their true nature. Once they feel comfort in their situation, they seem to be a bit more opinionated.

I admit that even my Olga has made reference to having a romantic, head in the clouds, soap opera like outlook on life. She has annoyed me a bit with statements like, "... but it is only my woman's mind to think that way..." However, I stick to my thinking that she is hiding her true nature, and is very capable of being more assertive, but believes that playing demure is the best strategy for her to get her WM. I am trying to prepare myself for either, or both Olgas to show up during our dates, with no EXPECTATIONS as to what I will find.
quote:Conflicts are unavoidable, and if you have the bad luck to meet a FSUW with an unsteady temperament on top of that (like a PMS type), life will be a hellish roller-coaster.Well my friend, I will again refer to my seven plus hellatious years with my ex, the D.L.H.J.W!!!!!!! In addition to her addictions, she was diagnosed with bi-polar disorder and was everything you describe and so much more!!! Trust me, I can recognize the signs and will run away fast at the first sign of such behavior from any FSUW no matter what.

I don't need or want such behavior from any woman in my life. Again, here you see my slightly calloused defense mechanism brought about by my ex, the D.L.H.J.W and my ability to not allow myself to "fall in love" or make overt commitments.

Let's examine what a real man, as opposed to a sex-tourist, is looking for... Okay guys, I'll use that four letter word... LOVE. I see this as something easily broken down into two parts, with percentages of each being an individuals needs.
1) Physical love... aka, sex... Even the real men who honestly seek relations with FSUWs want sex. Sex isn't a bad thing, and I feel it's a part of male, female relations. When combined with the second part of "love" it can be much more than the simple animalistic exchange of bodily fluids that the sex-tourists desire.
2) Emotional love... Caring, devotion, support etc. For me, and I will be so bold as to assume, for you, swede and Prometheus, this counts for a lot! We aren't looking to bring a prostitute home to live with us. That being sex without any emotional attachment, and naturally, we wish for these emotions to be good ones.

Realistically, we all understand, the three of us and not necessarily all WMs, that there will be bumps in the road with an FSUW, but to face these bumps with a girl who is no more than an emotional tornado isn't what we want, or need. Okay, a man should understand that there will be times when all women have their emotional explosions and we know it's part of what they are, regardless of ethnic, religious or cultural background. But, we also know what is normal and what is too damn much!

So, at this point, I plan to visit my probably too young Olga, hope for the best, but not put all of my eggs in one basket![8D]

Train returns

PeopleSmoks
10-20-2008, 11:54 AM
Hey Prometheus! Sorry to hear about your day buddy. I guess it's a good thing she hasn't seen this page?

Yup, you certainly do appear to have a vagina thing going on. Maybe you should start using it? Dude, throw a PMS fit right back in her face! Wash YOUR clothes, and your kids! Tell her that if she doesn't like the way you do it, she can wash her own panties that some other guy has been sniffing... then cry!!! Okay, maybe crying would be going too far, but it IS an option![:o)]

Besides, who paid for her leotards in the first place?:(

Another option, and my personal favorite, is to invite her to go somewhere to discuss your problems. Then drive her out to a desolate location and bury the b!tch. You live in Texas right? Duct tape, a jar of honey and a mound of fire ants! Enough said.[:0]:D[8D]

Train returns

Prometheus
10-20-2008, 12:25 PM
I'm sure she's readying this as I type People, so if you don't hear from me for a while tell the Sheriff to look under the nearest fire ant mound.

Yeah my vagina. I grew one after the kids were born and my little FSU bitch refused to be a mom for them. So male lactation ensued, and now I'm in the drop off line every morning with all the soccer moms (some of whom are pretty hot by the way). I've got a great relationship with my boys, so there are benefits. Still, I remember...

I can handle my FSU MOB not wanting me. What pisses me off is that she doesn't want anyone else to want me either. She found some text messages from a friend a couple of years ago who liked me, and she send her a text message back saying, "Stay away from my man, he's licking my p*ssy right now." As if she EVER lets me lick her pizda (did you know? "IT HURTS!" that was a first for me! yes you read correctly, my tongue on her clitoris is painful). Women smell trouble from a mile away, and this has just been a deal breaker time and time again. My brother calls her "your sort-of wife."

She refuses to leave the house, even after the divorce. I'm going to be required to hire some bodyguards and get a court order to put her on the lawn. She goes absolutely kung fu when her back is against the wall, and this cat has some claws (I've got scars to prove it).

So she's not like every FSU woman. But she's probably about like half of the ones looking for a Western male, based on my decade with the Russian expat community, so proceed with caution.

swede
10-20-2008, 02:30 PM
Prometheus,

I can see, that you have been thoroughly housebroken, which tactically is one of the biggest mistakes, you can make with a FSUW. They never stop complaining in any case, and if they feel they can get away with this without opposition, they also loose respect (possibly to the extent of developing contempt).

In spite of being a dumb blonde normally, I do have one positive genetic inheritance. I can go berserk. Not in the sense of starting physical fights, but when a certain limit is passed (and this can take some time), I can get extremely verbal and angry, and it is clear for everybody, that I won't accept more. Even if it is going to cost me a lot of later personal inconvenience and sorrow, I say "this far and not further", and I mean it. It has created some open respect from my partners.

So though you have to look forward to a possible period of emotional misery (solitude looks less attractive, once you have it), I know, that you after a period will adjust and get a chance to have a far better life, once you're alone. No one should live with the expectations of reacting to: "Heel", "sit" or "play dead".

PeopleS,

I hope it was clear, that I in no way put your ethics in question. I know, you're a decent guy. So my own reluctance about going to FSU expecting to meet several eggs in various baskets is more a question of my own character. Usually I'm a very bad liar, and a 'real' FSUW will at one point always ask you, if your contact with her is exclusive. I simply couldn't live with such a situation, because I know, that a 'no' would mean the end of a promising contact and a lie would make me feel terrible. But maybe it's possible to arrange things in such a way, that no one would feel cheated or hurt. I never tried it really, though I made some feeble efforts in Latvia some 4 years ago, when an exclusive contact failed me totally in an arrogant way, when I visited her.

In the age-group I've met, the positive FSUW part IS prominent and honest in the real women. Even my UA girlfriend (who is a golddigger with an easygoing attitude to truth) expected me to take the role as head of the family (I being the oldest male in the pack). And that was not a spiel. In her, and in her family's life, there existed a traditional position for the dominant male, which was vacant at the time. The problem was ofcourse, that 'love' as you talk about it, had a relatively low importance on her list of preferences. First came her genetic family (in spite of all FSU families fighting with themselves all the time, they are very loyal, when it comes to it), then status and money and possibly after that 'love'.

Seen from this angle it isn't difficult for a FSUW to exchange one possible dominant 'head-of-family' male for another who maybe can supply more alpha-male characteristics as social status and money. There's no doubt, that 'love' exists for FSUW, but it's not like the western Hollywood inspired type with 'eyes meeting across a room, and we can pass all later hurdles together because of this'. FSUW don't incorporate many future hurdles in their plans except possibly a certain amount of sex. And sex is in any case often considered a currency, not some emotional fancy stuff. Know this sounds cynical, but not being american, I can take a relaxed attitude to it. I have nothing against totally promiscuity, only it's like eating sawdust for me, far too superficial.

As to FSUW/M being romantic, I also believe this to be true, but in their own version. Try to look at really popular-style concerts etc. A considerable part of the music (for all ages), is so sticky sentimental, mixed with big and terrible tragedy, that listening to the lyrics it's a surprise, that the slavic population still exists at all. It's part of both their character and their culture, which makes even the chinese easier to understand for a westerner. The weltschmertz of the slav, which s/he enthusiastically cultivates, even more enthusiastically demonstrates ofter some vodka, and finally bravely and valiantly defies by being stoic in a cruel world.

OK, I'm spreading it a bit thick, but as you would make a clich? of austrians yodeling, americans having fond childhood memories of motherhood, sexual taboos and applepie and greenlanders of having 27 words for snow and a lot of alcoholism, so the slav will get misty eyes and an introspective mood from listening to all the possible miseries, which can happen to a human being.

Even their locally produced soap-operas mirror this by containing endless series of depressing dialogues. This, my friend, is a big part of slavic emotional life, not the hero marrying the princess.

swede
10-20-2008, 02:43 PM
PS Prometheus,

we (or rather she)had a knifewaving period here also; a couple of rather violent physical fights, where she used her knowledge that I'm gentleman enough not to hurt her, but she herself going kung-fu, as you call it.

And finally threats of calling in her cavalry of polish maffia gorillas. I had the choice to call the police or beat her up after that one. I called the cops.

Don't I recognize it.

All you guys passively reading this probably get some rather peculiar ideas about what it is to have a FSUW relationship. I can assure you, that reality is even more exciting.

Prometheus
10-20-2008, 02:58 PM
quote:we (or rather she)had a knifewaving period here also; a couple of rather violent physical fights, where she used her knowledge that I'm gentleman enough not to hurt her, but she herself going kung-fu, as you call it.

And finally threats of calling in her cavalry of polish maffia gorillas. I had the choice to call the police or beat her up after that one. I called the cops.

The police have been out to our house at least five times in the past nine years. She even spent a couple of nights in jail after threatening me, my five year old, and stating her intent to commit suicide. That time I thought about just leaving her and letting ICE deport her, but I relented after another one of her emotional pleas for understanding and forgiveness. We haven't had a knock down drag out in a while, but that is because I have just chosen to leave the house when she is going ape sh*t on me.



quote:Even their locally produced soap-operas mirror this by containing endless series of depressing dialogues. This, my friend, is a big part of slavic emotional life, not the hero marrying the princess.

Amen Swede, Amen.

I'll never change my little FSUW, so it's just a question of how you choose to live your life. I used to think my younger son (our child together) was reason enough to put up with it, but I looked down recently and realized my kher looks more like a pizda every day, and I have lost a lot of self-respect in the process.

So then it becomes a question of being able to look at yourself in the mirror without being sick.

swede
10-20-2008, 03:09 PM
Cit Prometheus:

"I'll never change my little FSUW, so it's just a question of how you choose to live your life."

Sorry. Didn't get that one. I got the impression, that your relationship was at its end. If you stay, you're either the nicest guy I've ever heard of or environmentally damaged by american upbringing.

But I'm right behind you in any case.

PeopleSmoks
10-20-2008, 03:31 PM
Hey guys! Prometheus, despite my sarcasm, I really do feel your pain... or at least remember the pain I felt during my ex the D.L.H.J.W days and can associate it with what you've talked about.

I don't see it so much as an FSUW issue as a no good woman issue. I base this solely on the fact that there are so many similarities between your situation and the one I went through with a non FSUW. Which again sends me back to my thoughts that basically, women are women regardless of where they're from.

Yup, I sat at home with the kids while she went off doing whatever it was, or whatever drug it was, or whoever he was, that she was doing that particular night. Like I said, there are a few guys in southern Jersey with new front grilles, and in some cases much worse, because of her.

As for not leaving the house, there are ways...[:0] Does she use any drugs? I'm not sure about Texas law, but in Jersey, if you're married, which we weren't so I couldn't pull this off, all you need to do is show the cops a fresh scar, preferably in the back, I have a couple, tell them she threatened to kill you, or injure herself, mine was a cutter, and that you feel she is a danger to you, the kids, and herself. If she fails a drug test, it is possible to have her commited!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Unfortunately for me, I never married the wh@re, so the law got real fuzzy in my situation. Or, just tell them she doesn't like her pizda licked... Any guy knows that there MUST be something terribly wrong with any woman who doesn't like that!!![:p]
quote:I can see, that you have been thoroughly housebroken, which tactically is one of the biggest mistakes, you can make with a FSUW. They never stop complaining in any case, and if they feel they can get away with this without opposition, they also loose respect (possibly to the extent of developing contempt). Ummmmmmmm sounds like you're describing me and my non FSUW ex???? See what I mean, it's international!
quote:Usually I'm a very bad liar, and a 'real' FSUW will at one point always ask you, if your contact with her is exclusive.That's easy! Don't lie to her! If you're not writing to her exclusively, tell her the truth, but only if she asks. Then, include a sideways compliment like, "But I'm sure that such a beautiful and wonderful girl like you has many men who write to you trying to win your precious heart besides me? Do you desire that we will only write to each other?"

I had talked about something I read about FSUW expectations from a WM. It was an article from a website that the admin censored, presumabley because of the link to the site? But it talked about the desire of FSUWs 30+ yo, to find a mate with strong character, a protector and provider. It made it clear to me that an FSUW would then be able to "force" herself to love a WM who fit this criteria.

Your description of slavic culture, especially the music, sounds like so much US country music drama! The dog died defending me from a grizzly bear, my girl is dancing on tables at the local bar, and my pick up truck blew it's engine! This is all before breakfast!!!

Train returns

Prometheus
10-20-2008, 03:38 PM
People, I'm sure you are familiar with Texas country singer David Allan Coe, but Swede, if you haven't heard him, here is one of his more famous missives:

"I'LL HANG AROUND AS LONG AS YOU WILL LET ME."

Written By Steve Goodman
As Recorded By David Allan Coe

WELL, IT WAS ALL
THAT I COULD DO TO KEEP FROM CRYIN?
SOMETIMES IT SEEMED SO USELESS TO REMAIN
BUT YOU DON?T HAVE TO CALL ME DARLIN?, DARLIN'
YOU NEVER EVEN CALL ME BY MY NAME

YOU DON?T HAVE TO CALL ME WAYLON JENNINGS
AND YOU DON?T HAVE TO CALL ME CHARLIE PRIDE
AND YOU DON?T HAVE TO CALL ME MERLE HAGGARD ANYMORE
EVEN THOUGH YOU?RE ON MY FIGHTIN? SIDE

CHORUS:

AND I?LL HANG AROUND AS LONG AS YOU WILL LET ME
AND I NEVER MINDED STANDIN? IN THE RAIN
BUT YOU DON?T HAVE TO CALL ME DARLIN?, DARLIN?
YOU NEVER EVEN CALLED ME BY MY NAME

WELL, I?VE HEARD MY NAME
A FEW TIMES IN YOUR PHONE BOOK (Hello, Hello)
AND I?VE SEEN IT ON SIGNS WHERE I?VE PLAYED
BUT THE ONLY TIME I KNOW
I?LL HEAR "DAVID ALLAN COE"
IS WHEN JESUS HAS HIS FINAL JUDGMENT DAY

REPEAT CHORUS

RECITATION:

WELL, A FRIEND OF MINE NAMED STEVE GOODMAN WROTE THAT SONG, AND HE TOLD ME IT WAS THE PERFECT COUNTRY & WESTERN SONG. I WROTE HIM BACK A LETTER AND I TOLD HIM IT WAS NOT THE PERFECT COUNTRY & WESTERN SONG, BECAUSE HE HADN?T SAID ANYTHING AT ALL ABOUT MAMA, OR TRAINS, OR TRUCKS, OR PRISON, OR GETTING? DRUNK!

WELL HE SAT DOWN AND WROTE ANOTHER VERSE TO THE SONG, AND HE SENT IT TO ME, AND AFTER READING IT, I REALIZED THAT MY FRIEND HAD WRITTEN THE PERFECT COUNTRY & WESTERN SONG AND I FELT OBLIGED TO INCLUDE IT ON THIS ALBUM... THE LAST VERSE GOES LIKE THIS HERE:

WELL, I WAS DRUNK THE DAY MY MOM GOT OUT OF PRISON
AND I WENT TO PICK HER UP IN THE RAIN
BUT BEFORE I COULD GET TO THE STATION IN MY PICKUP TRUCK
SHE GOT RUNNED OVER BY A DAMNED OLD TRAIN!

CHORUS:

AND I?LL HANG AROUND AS LONG AS YOU WILL LET ME
AND I NEVER MINDED STANDIN? IN THE RAIN
NO, A? YOU DON?T HAVE TO CALL ME DARLIN?, DARLIN?
YOU NEVER EVEN CALL ME
WELL I WONDER WHY YOU DON?T CALL ME
WHY DON?T YOU EVER CALL ME BY MY NAME

PeopleSmoks
10-20-2008, 03:55 PM
Hey guys! If we want to talk song lyrics, Alice In Chains has a few good ones. The first one's called "Dirt" and the second is "Love Hate Love".

Lyrics to Dirt :

I Have Never Felt Such Frustration
Or Lack Of Self Control
I Want You To Kill Me
And Dig Me Under, I Wanna Live No More

chorus:
One Who Doesn't Care Is One Who Shouldn't Be
I've Tried To Hide Myself From What Is
Wrong For Me, For Me

I Want To Taste Dirty, A Stinging Pistol
In My Mouth, On My Tongue
I Want You To Scrape Me From The Walls
And Go Crazy Like You've Made Me

chorus:

You, You Are So Special
You Have The Talent To
Make Me Feel Like Dirt
And You, You Use Your
Talent To Dig Me Under
And Cover Me With Dirt

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0a1eS_LuebM


Lyrics to Love, Hate, Love :

I tried to love you I thought I could
I tried to own you I thought I would
I want to peel the skin from your face
Before the real you lays to waste

You told me I'm the only one
Sweet little angel you should have run
Lying, crying, dying to leave
Innocence creates my hell

Cheating myself still you know more
It would be so easy with a whore
Try to understand me little girl
My twisted passion to be your world

Lost inside my sick head
I live for you but I'm not alive
Take my hand before I kill
Still love you, I still burn

Love, hate, love

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9jX1KAKp78

Funny story, funny strange, not funny haha, Layne Staley, the singer of this band died of a heroin overdose.

Train returns

Prometheus
10-20-2008, 04:09 PM
Now, it you want to get me drinking People, just play "That's What I Get," by Nine Inch Nails (NIN):

"That's What I Get"

just when everything was making sense.
you took away all my self-confidence.
now all that i've been hearing must be true.
i guess i'm not the only boy for you.

[Chorus:]
but that's what i get
that's what i get
that's what i get
that's what i get

how could you turn us into this?
after you just taught me how to kiss you.
i told you i'd never say goodbye.
i'm slipping on the tears you made me cry.

but that's what i get.
that's what i get.
that's what i get.
that's what i get.
for trusting you.
that's what i get.

why does it come as a surprise.
to think that i was so naive.
maybe didn't mean too much.
but it meant everything to me.

[Chorus]

Prometheus
10-20-2008, 04:13 PM
Just One More... "Always" by Saliva:

I hear, a voice say "Don't be so blind"
It's telling me all these things, that you would probably hide
Am I, your one and only desire?
Am I the reason you breathe, or am I the reason you cry?

Always... always... always... always... always... always...
I just can't live without you

I love you, I hate you, I can?t get around you
I breathe you, I taste you, I can't live without you
I just can't take anymore, this life of solitude
I guess that I'm out the door and now I'm done with you

Done with you, done with you, done with you, done with you, done with you

I feel, like you don't want me around
I guess I'll pack all my things, I guess I'll see you around
Its all, been bottled up until now
As I walk out your door, all I can hear is the sound

Always... always... always... always... always... always...
I just can't live without you

I love you, I hate you, I can?t get around you
I breathe you, I taste you, I can't live without you
I just can't take anymore, this life of solitude
I guess that I'm out the door and now I'm done with you

I love you, I hate you, I can't live without you

I left my head around your heart
Why would you tear my world apart?

Always... always... always... always...

I see, the blood all over your hands
Does it make you feel, more like a man?
Was it all, just a part of your plan?
The pistol's shaking in my hands and all I hear is the sound

I love you, I hate you, I can?t live without you
I breathe you, I taste you, I can't live without you
I just can't take anymore, this life of solitude
I guess that I'm out the door and now I'm done with you

I love you, I hate you, I can't live without you
I love you, I hate you, I can't live without you
I just can't take anymore, this life of solitude
I pick myself off the floor and now I'm done with you

Always... always... always...

PeopleSmoks
10-20-2008, 04:39 PM
Hey guys! Look, I'm heading to Lugansk in a few weeks, why don't you guys join me? The worst thing that could happen is we all get drunk at a local disco!:D

Train returns

swede
10-20-2008, 04:46 PM
PeopleS,

by comparing your ##&% ex to the bad part of FSUW you actually underlines my point, because your ex represents only a certain part of western females, while I have the sad suspicion, that my criticism of the bad part of FSUW implies most of them.

Maybe my very small knowledge of american women doesn't give me ground to form any opinion, but in my netdating days, it happened regularly, that I was approached by US women. And I must say, that those who contacted me where much more reality-oriented than any of the FSUW answering me. In spite of the FSUW generally being better educated.

You know my enamourment with quantumphysics, existential philosophy and eastern religion, and as a kind of filter from women I did NOT want to contact, my datingprofiles were filled with stuff like that. The only relevant answers I got was from WW (except one woman from Latvia, who tried to sell me some new-age pseudo-science faster-than-light reinforced skin cream).

So I have the following theory: Many american women could actually start to function decently as human beings, if it was possible to to recondition/debrainwash them from the american myth of female sexuality being a special branch of divinity. All their other obviously unpleasant sides would evaporate, if they just one time tried really good sex.

But I'm too old and lazy, and with too low hormonal motivation, to test this theory in practise.

Prometheus:

I can only repeat my argument from the above, this time applicated to music. While country and western fortunately only represents a minor part of western musical repertoir, you can't have ANY kind of popular musical arrangement in FSUW without a lot of songs about how your whole family died in eleven different, unpleasant and tragic ways. I do not think domestic pets going to the big petfood heaven play a very big part of this general gloom yet in eastern musical down-tripping.

Cit:

"It made it clear to me that an FSUW would then be able to "force" herself to love a WM who fit this criteria."

That's more or less what I said. Love as we understand it in the west is looked upon in a completely different way, not so candy-floss and firework like. You hang on to the best alpha male available, though their definition of an alpha male differ radically from the american (apart from the money aspect).

But guys, I have said this before. In spite of being brought up according to standard northwestern european morality, and therefore considerably more sexually sane than the average american, I have a personal handicap. I suffer from severe separation panic-anxiety; so strongly that it's actually neurotic. But I'd rather cry and eat tranquilisers by the handful, than be the victim of some sheepwalking woman, who would play on my hormonal system.

Ofcourse being elderly makes this attitude much easier, than it was before. And sex isn't, when it comes to the point, a very good substitute for quantumphysics.

By the way. Greetings from Danielle, who suspects, that she was blocked from the forum.

Prometheus
10-20-2008, 05:04 PM
Well my FSUW called crying. I always have to announce my departure to get this kind of phone call.

She said, "I do ANYTHING you want, ANYTHING!!!" (wink, wink) That of course lasts about 24 hours, but hey, I should just get up every morning and announce I'm leaving.

So I put a demand list on the table, none of which she is capable of doing.

1. Shut up and let me be the man.
2. Stop yelling in the house, and be nice to my son (her stepson).
3. Let me back in the master bedroom, AND
4. I don't care if it hurts like hell! I'm going to touch you all over as the mood strikes and you are going to pretend to enjoy it and actually touch me back.

I give her three days. [B)]

Prometheus
10-20-2008, 05:08 PM
People, thanks for the invite and a trip to Lugansk actually sounds fun, but given my current state of mine I would a. probably be drunk most of the time and a little bit of a downer, b. compare every FSUW with my FSUW and that's just not fair to the new ones we meet (they should be given their own opportunity to prove what a money grubbing little pizda she is), c. be worried about the kids (my vagina is talking again). But thanks, really.

swede
10-20-2008, 05:29 PM
Just want to mention it. I updated the 'newcomers at the scam scene',
so the newcomers could find it easily and then come here later.

There may still be some innocents out there, having to find hir way through the beginnings of the scam jungle.

PeopleS I would love to go with you. I think we could have a great time together, but I'm now the proud father of a cat, I wouldn't leave without a qualified cat-sitter.

And please don't stop your sudden poetic revival-meeting about pain. masochism, despair and general helplessness for my sake.

When I'm in that mood, I usually listen to Brahms violin concert, which is pleasantly dramatic in a depressing way, and completely without lyrics. "Well, you can't have evereethink" (Cit Spike Jones, another great musician)

Prometheus
10-20-2008, 05:38 PM
Pachelbel's Canon in D major always does it for me Swede. Turn the lights out on a dark night, and lay on the floor with a glass of wine. Speaking of wine (or guys with a vagina), have you guys seen the movie Sideways with Paul Giamatti? Just a dead on take of the pathos involved in being single and middle aged in America. Should be required viewing for every American male considering a divorce after 40.

PeopleSmoks
10-20-2008, 06:12 PM
Hey guys!
quote:by comparing your ##&% ex to the bad part of FSUW you actually underlines my point, because your ex represents only a certain part of western females, while I have the sad suspicion, that my criticism of the bad part of FSUW implies most of them.Maybe so swede, but let's disregard the semantics of percentages for a moment, since I just can't imagine that the percentage of FSUWs who display schizophrenic tendenceies being that much greater than there western counterparts. But again, it seems that once numbers and percentages are dispensed with, we basically agree that such behavior crosses international and cultural boundaries?
quote:Many american women could actually start to function decently as human beings, if it was possible to to recondition/debrainwash them from the american myth of female sexuality being a special branch of divinity.And I put to you that many FSUWs show equal potential were it possible to remove the "soap opera drama" from them.
quote:On the other hand 'real' FSUW have all these characteristics, which a WM appreciates. They are feminine, faithful, intelligent, with a great sense of humour and enthusiastic physical lovers (though not creative, it's more quantity than quality).Remove the unnecessary drama, and any man would be in heaven! Mind you, for the overly aggressive, insecure, need to be overtly dominate how may read this stuf, swede's statement doesn't include submissive or do as your told etc. But simply to remove the drama from these women would bring forth true paradise on earth.

I fear that such drama is a part of their conditioning. Complete removal may be impossible, but to find one with a minimum and then try to nurture a reduction of what there is, is the best I think a WM can hope for. A big thing is for WMs to realize that FSUWs aren't perfect and that they have this flaw in some degree.

Again I will blame the agencies and various websites for spreading and promoting the propaganda, to and about, both sides. Gentlemen, I believe that we have started down a path which I have long sought. It goes beyond scammers and gold diggers! It is the basic fundamentals of exactly what an FSUW really IS and what she really wants!!!

This is something that I have tried to figure out, but have so far failed. As I have said many times, a woman's mind is like a deep dark abyss! It's an enigma wrapped in a chinese finger puzzle... or visa versa? Now, add language and culture to the mix and God help us all!!! Excuse me swede, Intelligent Design guy, help us all!!!
quote:"It made it clear to me that an FSUW would then be able to "force" herself to love a WM who fit this criteria."Now this was a statement concerning FSUWs 30+ yo. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but I have read that in FSU culture, an unmarried girl 25+ yo is considered to be an old maid? I would put this toward the female to male population ratio, which also fosters the apparently real FSUM good time boy myth?

Prometheus, I understand your reluctance to dive head first back into the FSUW pool, knowing that the water is so shallow! At least it seems from your 12:04:38 posting that you've begun to regrow your male genitalia! Kudos to you! Only, #3? Right before I finally kicked my ex out, I actually had grown back my male genitalia to where I was able to make her ass sleep on the floor! If you're not my girl 100%, your ass isn't sleeping in MY bed!!!

3 days is reasonable, just be prepared for her to pull some sh!t if she's taking too long to "think" about it.

Train returns

PeopleSmoks
10-20-2008, 06:25 PM
quote:And please don't stop your sudden poetic revival-meeting about pain. masochism, despair and general helplessness for my sake.It's just something for me that lies just beneath the surface and is always waiting. Over time, I've managed to channel it toward anger and contempt for my ex, the D.L.H.J.W.

swede, I'm sure gtreat grand father badger will watch the cat???:D

Train returns

swede
10-20-2008, 08:17 PM
PeopleS,

welll ....as it often used to be said at the beginning of our common venture into media-celebrity. I'm sure, that our possible disagreements won't bother you. I've said my points, and you yours and none of us can be completely sure, that we have the whole truth. I take this whole exchange of opinions more like a 'think-tank' session, rather than dishing out final truths or fighting to win arguments.

As we today have been rather active here, and the communication flows more and more easy (without loosing the general direction), I will just comment on things, as they turn up in the posts.

No, Prometheus, I haven't seen the film you mentioned. I'm happy just to be the owner of the Matrix collection and films in the same genre, as the area I live in consider Rambo-films as exponents of deep existential and political philosophy.

Concerning the possibilities of saving american or FSUW from their own character shortcomings, I must admit to total lack of practical experience with american women on the subject of intimate contact, but I have a very strong feeling, that anyone being really 'cool' wouldn't have problems. With cool I don't mean discoteque cool, arrogant cool, beach lion cool or 'I-have-a-relationship-with-my-car-so-I-can't-possibly-be-interested-in-you' cool. I'm talking about real decent, self-reliant cool totally without any supply panic. A man resting completely in himself is irresistable, if not for anything else, that it is a deadly insult to any reasonably attractive woman not to have a man drooling over her, and thus he is a challenge. My first scandinavian wife was a STUNNER, we lasted together 18 years, and you'd be surprised of the offers I got in that period, because other women didn't interest me very much.

Whereas the FSUW seem to cling to their 'drama' long past the point of selfdestruction. That's at least my 18 year experience. With risk of being accused of being impossible to live with and having too high expectations, I'm the one, who has terminated all my four long FSUW relationships. Two of them marriages. As at least three of them are quite sweet and nice girls, I feel it is a shame, but even when threatened with being removed to the outer darkness in my life, leading to a lot of crying and gnashing of teeth, NONE of them were in the least able to diminish their egocentric soap-opera approach to life (mind you, I'm not talking about egotism, only the psycholoigal equalent of a flat-earth center of the universe-psychology).

There are strong similarities to Prometheus' sweetheart. She simply can't keep away from her ingrained selfabsorbed habits for more than one day. When I noticed this standard FSUW attitude in wifey, I didn't fight her too much, but just gave her the choice to change..or else. After that I simply manipulated her slowly, but very decently out of my life. All time supporting and helping her to create her own, new life alone. She's aware of what has happened, and we can talk about it, but her sheepwalking ruts are too deep to change.

Cit:

"I fear that such drama is a part of their conditioning." and "Again I will blame the agencies and various websites ...etc"

The problem existed long time before the agencies took over. A possible answer is in a general illusion about the western paradise, but at least in Poland you'll find a completely local soap-opera industry, only turning around polish culture, and besides the tragic 'drama' is an old phenomenon in slavic cultures.

Cit:

"Gentlemen, I believe that we have started down a path which I have long sought. It goes beyond scammers and gold diggers! It is the basic fundamentals of exactly what an FSUW really IS and what she really wants!!!"

Count me in, I'm equally interested and as I started saying, on a 'think-tank' basis. We don't need to find the answer to life, universe and everything at first go. Innovative thinking always fascinates me. But you won't find the answer in discoteques with their imported culture or only amongst the women. The FSU male is a very interesting and normally pleasant type, which can give as many clues as the women.

Concerning an unmarried 25 year old FSUW being an old maid, I don't believe it. There's a lot of career-women now, and as with their western contemporaries, they wait with marriage and children.

Being an injun with an expected direct contact with nature and stuff like that, your knowledge of badgers is deplorable. Expecting a badger to cat-sit is like giving a FSUW your creditcard and its pincode.

Prometheus
10-21-2008, 11:35 AM
Interesting 12 hours here at Prometheus manor.

I noticed that FSUW's little adventure on my laptop Sunday, involved a lot of emails to herself, so I was curious as to what was going on. I came home and pulled up my keylogger program and hacked her Hotmail and gmail accounts, deleted all of the messages from my laptop to herself.

Then I look in the Trash bin in gmail and discover in resplendent glory a total of 44 "conversations" (multiple email threads) with her lovers, including text messages that she was sending and receiving the past Sunday while we were at a family outing (I remember asking about this and she said it was her "mother."). :( Apparently iPhone and gmail interface, so I was able to read all the stuff going on with her handheld. The coup de gr?ce were the iPhone vagina pics she sent her 21 year old horn dog only last week (after lengthy protestations that "it meant nothing" "it is over" "i love only you," etc.) :) The subject line? "ENJOY." [xx(]

When confronted with the evidence, she of course denied that this ever happened. Then in the course of the argument she slips, "I only did this one time." So I pounce, "So did it never happen? Or did it happen 'one time'? I'm confused!" It was the ultimate Chico Marx moment, "Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?"

I am so cured. Like the Holy Apostle Paul, the scales have fallen off my eyes.

She had sent nasty missives to several of my FSU pen pals. Irina wrote back:


quote:Now to me it is clear why [ ] does not wish to live with you. You not the decent woman. And you think that having removed at me in a computer all data about your husband you thus will force it to live with you.? But remember that all in it the world is punishable. Excuse I can not wish you success-more likely of the return. [name in Cyrillic].--
Any Hollywood producers listening? We've got a great soap in the making: "FSU MOB, the Prometheus Tales"! :D

swede
10-21-2008, 04:11 PM
Prometheus,

maybe it's time to take out Pachelbel and a couple of bottles of wine.

But maybe you remember. It's not the first time this has happened. A few years ago, there was this US guy, whose FSUW wife for a longer period had used the family computer for good old money-scamming ? l?
sick grandmother or travelmoney.

You can't imagine how much I enjoy my present solitude. And you have all my sympathy for your plight.

Prometheus
10-21-2008, 06:04 PM
I'm actually fine. I'm not the jealous type. I could even live in an open relationship. What I can't stand is the dishonesty and the lying. As President Bush famously said, "Fool me once, shame on you... fool me twice, you won't, you won't get fooled again."

I'm taking my boys camping this weekend and just putting this behind me. It's all over except for the mopping.

PeopleSmoks
10-21-2008, 08:02 PM
Hey guys!
quote:"I fear that such drama is a part of their conditioning." and "Again I will blame the agencies and various websites ...etc"

The problem existed long time before the agencies took over. A possible answer is in a general illusion about the western paradise, but at least in Poland you'll find a completely local soap-opera industry, only turning around polish culture, and besides the tragic 'drama' is an old phenomenon in slavic cultures.First I just want to clear up that what I was saying about agencies and websites was referring to WMs needing to realize that the fascade created by the agencies and websites is just that, a fascade. FSUWs are portrayed as the perfect wife, but their short-comings are never talked about. So, WMs find themselves with ticking "drama bombs".

Now, Prometheus, I hope you kept all this dirt you found on your Olga on a memory stick for the pending divorce proceedings.:( I would politely inform her that she should go live with vaginal photo boy until everything is finalized. I would tell her this right after I changed the locks on the doors... Oh! That's what I did with my ex! But, we weren't married, so check with your lawyer first of course.:D

And swede, I'm sure that great grandfather badger would take much better care of your cat than the average badger would.:D


Train returns

swede
10-22-2008, 07:01 AM
Good to hear Prometheus,

I gave my UA 'fianc?e' exactly the same choice, when I discovered, that she even after our 'engagement' (we were living together with rings and everything), still hadn't terminated her former contacts or removed her many profiles.

"You stop lying to me and admit, what and who you are, and I'll forget about it. I trust 'my lying eyes' more than you, so if you can't be honest, I'm offski and will tell the world about your gold-digging".

She choose to continue to lie, and I'm sorry to say, that her attitude is fairly representative for the bad FSUW part. Truth, honesty and keeping agreements are very flexible for them.

PeopleS:

I can only agree, that the agencies have reinforced the glamour-aspect, I took a peep recently at a pay-site, and almost all the girls, no matter age, were halfnaked, ofcourse quite delicious, and with the usual sirapy temperament. In my time on free sites, it wasn't as bad as that.

What I meant was, that the sheepwalker, soap-opera, tragic drama part of the slavic soul is very old, making it easy to fabulate in general.

Some badgers are just bad, others are worse. As badgers go, greatgrandfather badger isn't so bad, him being the incarnation of some native american medicine-man, but in spite of my cat sometimes chasing foxes twice his own size out of the garden, he wouldn't stand a chance with even a goodtempered badger. (A goodtempered badger is one, who hesitates 20 seconds before attacking anything moving in its surroundings).

swede
10-22-2008, 10:19 AM
A sudden streak of ethical philosophy jumped into my mind, and even if it's a slight digression, I thought, I would let it out.

On background of Prometheus' and my own experiences as we have presented them here (and we are FAR from being alone), it's natural to start thinking in more general terms of morality and consequences of morality. Both on the part of scammers and scammees.

It is possible that the theory, that existence in the universe is a 'dream' or illusion, is correct. This had led to the questionable conclusion, that there are no final 'truths', and thus anyone has the 'right' to do whatever s/he wants to, because ultimately 'everything is relative'.

This may or may not be correct in an abstract sense, but pragmatically there's one important step, which is skipped in such reasoning. We all live in some kind of co-census reality and react to that, and our actions have consequences based on such a co-census reality.

After a long period of truce with PeopleS around the subject of FSUW psychology, I have reached the personal point of view, that the slavic psyche contains a high degree of mythomania, manifesting in an exaggerated narrative outlook on life. Life is what you verbally describe it to be. Hence the endless dialogues in deeper russian literature, the popularity of soap-operas, telephonebills like the national debt and the general inability to keep agreements, accept consequences or staying with the same opinions for a long time.

You tell a new story about life, and viola, the universe has changed.

The thing which has been THE small daily reason for irritation for me in my FSUW relationships is the short attentionspan, my 'gals' simply couldn't concentrate enough on the necessities of life, and even if they did get the information, the motivation to see such necessary processes through flickered, and tomorrow everything would be different in any case.

Ofcourse we have a western equalent in Hollywood fantasies and superhero identifications, but on an average I would say, that fewer westerners live in such fantasies as a basis for life, than the FSU person does. Neither do the chinese f.ex., they are usually very pragmatic.

And then we have the western sex-tourists, which is a quite big group. I was almost booed out on another forum some years ago, because I mentioned this fact. I'm not saying, that we are saints.

Somewhere along the line of sliding away from co-census morality, a person can reach a point outside the co-census, making him/her socially unacceptable. If we look apart from coldblooded criminals, real loonies or psychopaths with megalomania, I think, that we will get a very different personality profiles of con artists in FSU and the west. The western crook will probably be more or less aware, that s/he is doing something, which is non co-census. The FSU will for him/herself justify it and rationalize it, seldom being able to admit to 'doing anything wrong'. They really convince themselves about their innoncence, or can push 'guilt' aside very quick; leading to this selfdestructive denials of obvious facts.

In case anyone accuses me of ethnic or cultural prejudice against slavics, I can only say that in spite of living in a dreamworld, the fundamental slavic co-census morality is slightly better than the western, it's not typical, that this mythomania developes into victimrelated crimes of a serious character amongst average persons. I would count my change in Italy, but not in FSU.

But then living together with someone having the concentration, consequence or attentionspan of a 5-10 year old child is another cup of tea.

PeopleS, take this as a suggestion of the general FSU character. Ofcourse open for discussion. And should there be any FSUW reading this and disagreeing, please state your objections. This thread is not really a male chauvinist FSU hating exclusive club.

Prometheus
10-22-2008, 11:08 AM
Agreed Swede. I do not hate Slavs, or women for that matter. I'm actually very favorably inclined towards them. I am certainly attracted to Slavic women. My Olga says I must have been Russian in a former life.

But I did walk into my relationship with a FSUW with blinders on, and had no idea what I was in for. The reason I joined this forum a year and a half ago was not to deter WM seeking FSUW, but to perhaps educate or inform them as to what to expect. I don't know that such instruction would have made any difference in how my relationship turned out, but I would have not entered it with so many sugary sweet naive ideas about what life with a FSUW was all about.

So as we wave our new friend PeopleS off at the airport en route to Lugansk, the question remains.... Do you think he was listening???

swede
10-22-2008, 12:10 PM
Prometheus,

when it comes to it, every individual ofcourse makes hir own decisions, but in general terms I believe, that us 'activists' in the anti-scam area have done much to spread information in a constructive sense. Most WM searching for FSUW are now aware of the risks involved, meaning they at least can avoid the worst traps.

Scamming has never been a big part of the polish women's repertoire, many of them are just sheepwalkers or wanted a green card, but as late as 2004, when I first time went to UA, I didn't even know what a 'scammer' was, even less how such manifested.

If I'd had such knowledge then, it would have saved me much heartache, money and energy.

Apart from the purely informational aspect, I also find that anti-scam sites like this one can function as 'support' for scammees. Remember Sirena? She was bad off after being scammed and had few people to talk with about it. I believe, it helped a bit being able to communicate here.

I consider PeopleS one of the most sane and rational persons, I've had to the pleasure to meet for some years, so I'm quite convinced he won't do anything stupid.

PeopleSmoks
10-22-2008, 05:42 PM
Hey guys! Prometheus, don't pack my bags yet. I don't leave until November 12th.
quote:I consider PeopleS one of the most sane and rational persons, I've had to the pleasure to meet for some years, so I'm quite convinced he won't do anything stupid."Stupid is as stupid does..." - Forrest Gump[:o)]
quote:The FSU will for him/herself justify it and rationalize it, seldom being able to admit to 'doing anything wrong'. They really convince themselves about their innoncence, or can push 'guilt' aside very quick; leading to this selfdestructive denials of obvious facts.If you substitute my ex the D.L.H.J.W for FSU, you will get a better picture of where I am. Okay, mine wasn't an FSUW, but her self denial of reality fits with your descriptions of the bad FSUWs. Maybe my experience with her will help me to avoid falling into such a mistake with an FSUW? I certainly hope it will.

Having given some passing thought to the question of where these FSU/MOB scammers all came from, I put forth this scenario...

Once upon a time, there were no FSU/MOB scammers, only real women who dreamed of meeting a western man to marry. The reasons were several. With the fall of the Soviet Union, the FSUWs became exposed to western ideas and materialism, and desired them. It is true that women out number men, which can make it tough to find a mate, let alone a good one. Of course, a green card may have been motivation for some. But, I believe that financial and emotional stability was also a big factor in the face of economic instabilty in the new independent former Soviet states.

Well, as the whole FSU/MOB process built up and became increasingly known to WMs, these men would send their ladies various gifts for birthdays, Christmas, etc. Some men may have offered financial help to their prospective wife and her family for legitimate reasons? Women talk! And there are always people looking to make a buck! I figure a conversation was overheard about a woman writing to her WM and how generous he was or that he sent her money to buy her visa and airfare to come to him. Next thing you know, a scammer is born! Write to WMs on the internet and ask them for money for visa and airfare, then just don't go. How will this foreign guy do anything about it? Besides, all WMs have lots of extra money!;) I'm just trying to make an "honest" living. I'm not hurting these guys.[V]

Like anything else, the whole idea of FSU/MOB scamming evolved, and was perfected over time with many scenarios being invented in order to separate WMs from their cash. I need rent money, I was robbed, I need airfare, I need letter translation, I need money for internet, and of course, GRANNY NEEDS AN OPERATION!!!!!!!!![:0]

And yes, I've read that many of these people DON'T see anything wrong with what they're doing. They're just trying to make an "honest" living!:(


Train returns

Prometheus
10-24-2008, 12:24 PM
quote:Originally posted by Amerikanski

Having survived marriage to a FSU beauty, I'll give a couple of much generalized observations. I do believe that each relationship rises or falls on its own merits, but I wish someone had told me these things first.

1. General pessimism. Western media and culture tend to be optimistic, a "glass half full" mentality. Viktor Chernomyrdin best summarized the FSU mentality with his oft quoted statement, "We hoped for the best, but things turned out as usual.? Someone who constantly complains, constantly criticizes, and generally expects the worst out of each new experience will wear you down with time.

2. Mir mentality. The mir was the ancient Rus village that was the collective building block of civilization. If you are not a member of your FSU girl's mir, you will be viewed with suspicion. They trust the friends they had in childhood. Everyone else is expendable. "I may be married to you, but you are not my family" is how it was explained to me.

3. Rampant materialism. When was the last time you got together with your friends to compare wrist watches & shoes? My FSU had a club just for such things. Chanel, Gucci, Prada, you name it. They are slaves to the labels and the more expensive the better. I thought a FSU girl would be less materialistic than a Westerner. Wrong. They are MUCH, MUCH, MORE.

4. Really bad sex. I have to mention this only because at least a half dozen members of my FSU victims club have mentioned this. Many FSU women are gorgeous. I can't resist them, honestly. But it seems that all of my friends who went down this road describe a woman who was accommodating, but not particularly enthusiastic at the outset, followed by being completely unresponsive sexually once married. If you are into necrophilia, you are going to LOVE sex with your FSU bride. No touching, no kissing, stiff as a board, blank expression, and quiet as a mouse. You can ignore it for a while if you like, but one day it hits you, that rape would be infinitely more enjoyable. To her, it probably is rape already.

So there you have it. I advise dating FSU beauties, sampling the goods, and leaving. Do not bring one home. You will not be able to house train your new pet, and it will bite you in the ass each chance she gets.

I posted this more than a year ago using my nom de plume, "Amerikanski." LOL, every time I read it I am amazed by what a genius I have truly become. YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO HOUSE TRAIN YOUR NEW PET. Sorry PeopleS, but it is true.

PeopleSmoks
10-24-2008, 03:28 PM
Hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey Prometheus! Have you read the on-going saga of "My Three Olgas"? It's starting to sound more and more like I'm writing from some experience I must have had in a previous life than the fantasy/fiction that I had intended it to be.

Another installment is on the table and will be ready for public viewing soon.[8D]

The fact that the FSUW that I am primarily going to spend time with happens to be named Olga is only a coincidence... or maybe it's a sub-concious mode of self-destruction on my part![:0][B)][8]

Train returns

swede
10-25-2008, 10:14 AM
Sorry, my energy still comes and goes, so I'm an infrequent contributor at the present. I'm coming more and more to the conclusion, that my present state of exhaustion is a result of my now 3 year FSUW marriage.

I have already commented on Prometheus' this same post placed at another thread, but as psychobabbling is my spritual home, I'll go more into detail here.

Lately I have tried to formulate my thoughts about FSUW more precisely, without succeeding 100%, but Prometheus' bringing half filled or half empty glasses into it, hits the nail on the head. If there is a chance of being gloomy or querulous in any situation, an FSUW will very often take it, instead of being positive. It has always surprised me, that any help or support you give them has been met with sullenness or even suspicion. It's not that I'm a sextourist or expect people to grovel on the floor in front of me, crying: "O Massa, thank you, Massa". Even when you've given away $200-500, I wouldn't expect anything but a decent "thank you". But then I WOULD expect that (it's not that I own 50 oilwells). Apparently "thanks" is not part of the FSUW vocabulary.

PeopleS, recently you wrote a post, where you theorized about the background for FSUW psychology. And ofcourse there's a lot to be said for someone wanting to getting a 'better' life. Many individuals from cultures with low living standards would strive for an existence in a high-income country, and even inside a given country, there is a steady stream of people moving from rural to urban areas for the same reason. But then, when such individuals have acchieved a higher income, you would expect some happiness, gratitude or good feelings in them.

I've had some contact with WM marrying thai or chinese women, and these men give a complete different picture, than those having FSU contacts. The thai or chinese women seem to manifest some contentment about their bettered material situation, and their attitude to marriage (or equalent relationships) is much more stable and durable, than the FSUW. Besides they also are willing to accept 'humble' startingconditions in their new lives; it's not an immediate craving for status and luxury from the first day. So there are different ways of reacting to a 'better' life.

As I live in an area with a high unemployment, I've often had to take 'beeb'jobs with low income and low status, simply to support myself (and anyone depending on me). But I've often heard FSUW expressing the opinion, that such is 'below' them. They want their cake AND eat it, preferably by getting a job as a moviestar, photomodel, university-lecturer or at least chief airplane hostess from the first day. Considering we both here in Sweden and probably also in US have people with f.ex. educations as medical doctors, working as cabdrivers because of bureaucratic idiocy, the FSUW's will for glamour is unrealistic and probably the reason for their ill adaption, once they do get to the west.

I've not had Prometheus' bad experience with sexuality, at least quantitatively, but I must admit to a certain robot-like QUALITY. For me sex isn't just a physical activity, it's also romance, emotions, psychological intimacy etc, and that seems to be a problem. You don't get 'close', there's a 'sheepwalking' aspect even sexually. For me the result has not been so much frustration, but rather boredom.

And as Prometheus wrote, the will for change is very small. They have 'rights' by just being women.

PeopleSmoks
10-25-2008, 02:22 PM
Hey swede! You, Prometheus and I all know that thank you is in the FSUW vocabulary. That comment was more for non-Ruskie speaking people than for you guys. Spasibo (thank you) and pazhalsta (please or you're welcome) were the first words I learned, and I basically survived socially because of those words.

But, I understand what you mean. FSUWs don't bother to say thank you, except if she is a waitress and you give her an American size tip for bringing you a beer. I haven't had the same interactions with FSUWs that you guys have had... yet? But, I will be on guard for all of the behaviors that you guys have talked about these passed few weeks.

Hopefully, I will retain my objectivity about my one Olga during our meeting and subsequent dates, and not be overwhelmed by her spectacular NERTS.[:o)]
quote:PeopleS, recently you wrote a post, where you theorized about the background for FSUW psychology. And ofcourse there's a lot to be said for someone wanting to getting a 'better' life.I think that some of the stories regarding the abundance of women in the FSU as compared to the number of available men has as much to do with an FSUW looking west as a better life. I see the current FSUW who looks west for a mate as seeking several things, but the lack of Ivans, Sergeis and Borises must certainly figure into the equation.

Lugansk is one of the "lower" per capita income regions of Ukraine, yet I don't think I would say we're talking US inner-city poverty by any means. These people work and work hard, but they are not impoverished. Many of the buildings may appear to be not so nice from the outside, but are often quite nice inside, especially the apartments and homes.

I think that FSUWs, whether it's because of agency/website propaganda or because they live in a fantasy world, see WM incomes, compare them to FSU incomes, but don't bother to take notice of the western expense level. I'm not rich, but I obviously do okay since I can afford to take trips to FSU land twice in one year. I have very low personal overhead.:D Going by current per capita monthly incomes in Ukraine, I can say that if it was possible for me to save my entire gross income for just one year, I could probably live the next 10 years in relative comfort, if not complete decadence, in Lugansk.

I'm sure, that FSUWs see these numbers, if not urged on by the agencies and websites, simply by not taking western expenses into account, and think the west is nirvanah.
quote:I've often had to take 'beeb'jobs with low income and low status, simply to support myself (and anyone depending on me). But I've often heard FSUW expressing the opinion, that such is 'below' them.Well, you're describing my ex, the D.L.H.J.W. again!:( I made enough to support us and her kids, but it was a bit tough to get the extra stuff sometimes. I told her that if she got a part-time job that evn paid $100 or $200 per week, that's $400 to $800 per month! It's not a fortune, but what the heck, it would have been money. She preferred to sit home and complain about sh!t. Maybe she was an FSUW in a past life?[:0]:([xx(]
quote:I've not had Prometheus' bad experience with sexuality, at least quantitatively, but I must admit to a certain robot-like QUALITY.I really don't have much to say about sex with FSUWs... YET!!!!![:I]:D;) But, in all the Russian porn I've downloaded, the girls seem very enthusiastic!!![:0][:p]:D[:o)];)[8D] Sorry, I couldn't help myself but to write that!!![}:)]


Train returns

swede
10-25-2008, 04:52 PM
As I've mentioned before, they man/woman relationship in the parts of FSU I've visited, looks a bit strange for western eyes. The men are EXPECTED to perform incredible feats of politeness towards women, feats which dwarfs even the rather ridiculous american habit of running around a car to open the door for a woman, who apparantly is intellectually or physically incapable of doing it herself.

But while the FSUM perform this theather of handkissing, bowing, cigaretlightening and refraining from saying too many 'beebs' in his conversation, it doesn't mean that he will share householdwork with his wife (who usually has a fulltime job also) or give her a fair share of his income for familyupkeeping. His income is apparantly mainly used at the cornerbar.

So a 'thank you' to a WM, who (hopefully) is more willing to split responsibilities with his woman in daily life, shouldn't be too much to expect. Being european and not a downtrodden wimp, I manifest enough selfrespect not to be considered with scorn by a FSUW, but still no 'thanks' forthcoming.

PeopleS, you keep comparing your ex to average FSUW. I've had scandinavian alcoholic or drugusing girlfriends also, but that's not a straight comparison. While a normal WW probably would as interested in status and comsuming as a FSUW, she would be more likely to accept doing what it needs to acchieve it, instead of living in fantasies. Fantasies continuing after getting used to western culture in the case of FSUW.

Can't say much about the sexual advertising from FSUW, almost never look at such because of the boredom implied, but considering the relevance of the promised romance, love, family-orientation and non-status compared to reality, I wouldn't take promises of good sex too seriously either.

PeopleSmoks
10-25-2008, 05:34 PM
Hey swede! Yup, I do compare my ex the D.L.H.J.W. to the description that you and Prometheus present of FSUW mentality. Depsite the fact that her mother's maiden name was Bjerke, and even forget the fact that she was, and to the best of my knowledge, still is a D.L.H.J.W, just about every thing you and Prometheus describe fits the little skank unconscionably perfectly.

Okay, she was very animated when it came to sex, but her bad habits, "black cloud over her head" attitude, nothing is ever good enough (nothing I did was ever good enough), the world is out to get me, there's no way I'll work for a job that pays less than $2,000 USD per week, despite the fact that I didn't graduate high school, I deserve the world to be handed to me and I don't need to do anything to earn it, let me piss on your leg and tell you it's raining, and so much more that I need another beer just having thought about it!

This b!tch would lie to my face and then try to make ME feel guilty about catching her in her lie! She accused ME of cheating on her, but as I learned, it was to reverse the subject and divert the issue away from the fact that she was the one spreading her legs in some other guys bed, or motel room!

She lived (lives) in a total fantasy world of her own creation, full of melancholy, drama and self-deprication, while blaming everyone around her for the crap she caused to herself, her kids and those who were stupid enough to love her.

And yes, I was the guy that would open doors for her, hold her seat at a restaurant when she sat, and all the other stupid ass-kissing crap that guys do. She may have said "thank you" but she didn't mean it.

Train returns

swede
10-26-2008, 11:12 AM
Hi PeopleS,

I can both sympathize and identify with you. You remember, I told you about my app. five year on-and-off relationship to the 20 year younger Playboy magazine-model bimbo (I mean, she really was the bunny of the month once). Ofcourse very attractive, as I gathered from your homesite photos, that your ex also was (is). And a drug-abuser as with your ex., only mine was an alcoholic. Deeply.

That you lasted seven years in such a hell is impressive, and it's not surprising, that it has left a deep impact on you. I would have resorted to both green, red and yellow small pills in abundance after six months. But then maybe the famous patience of the native american (if that myth is correct) played in.

Drug-abusers or not, I will agree with you, that some psychological female traits are international. Attractive women more commonly do things of a dubious character, simple because they can...can get away with it (I prefer this version), and the rest of the world, especially us dumb men, try to forgive them, because of our own hormonal needs and drives. Some of us never learn; some like me learn, when it's almost to late.

Fundamentally a human life is like a car-battery (accumulator). It's needs a certain amount of charge to function, and as a battery gets older, its ability to be recharged diminishes. And special situations can make a battery 'old' faster. No acid on the cells; emptying it out repeatedly, if your car won't start; leaving it uncharged over a winter with frost etc.

Such extreme situations corresponds to dysfunctions in a human. Especially when our emotions get involved in one way or another. It takes something out of you, which is difficult to put back in.

But as you have said many times: "What doesn't kill us, makes us stronger", and I agree with you, until a certain point. Sooner or later a challenge too big for us, WILL kill us. Some challenges are necessary or unavoidable, some are just foolhardiness.

Personally I would consider a relationship with a FSUW (or for that sake any 'stunner' in general) as the last. Unnecessary and too risky, unless I had triplechecked every single aspect first. This maybe sounds too cautious, unromantic or even calculating, but I know, that I haven't got, what it takes, to loose drastically in such a lottery one more time. For each meaningless drama, it takes me longer and longer to recharge and the final voltage-outcome drops slightly every time.

As with the old maps saying: "Beware, here be dragons", it would be reasonable to exchange 'dragons' for 'beautiful (FSU) women'.

PeopleSmoks
10-26-2008, 12:32 PM
Hey swede! Your right that these bad relationships take their toll on a man's soul, and after a while, a man looks in the mirror and wonders to himself just how much of his soul is left.

My biggest concern is simply the chance of missing out on something that might be really great because of the lack of emotion that I now have. I guess that is the biggest reason I am even entertaining the thought that my rather young Olga may be the girl for me after all. Despite this, I still remain very guarded concerning my approach to my FSU lovely and women in general.

I also cling to a somewhat pessimistic view toward future relations. I have very low expectations for success along the lines of romantic entanglements with my 23 yo Olga, but have chosen to give it a shot anyway. Maybe this is a good attitude to have considering the overall success rate of FSUW/WM coupling appears pretty grim to say the least.

Beneath my tough outer shell, is a stone wall, a moat filled with sea serpeants, an iron gate, another stone wall, a protective pack of wolves and an angry gnome with a pointy stick. Should some magical maiden get passed these barriers, she'll only find a locked box with what remains of the heart my ex, the D.L.H.J.W, chewed up and spit out so many times for so many years.

Anything is possible... right?

In some ways, it does make FSUW hunting easier for me. Not having the high hopes that most WMs have prevents me from feeling so down should things not go as I would like during my meeting with my Olga. As I say, I can easily go to Lugansk, not have a romantic liason at all, and still enjoy the vacation I'm taking.

I will say that I'm not sure how much longer I will continue this search should this trip not prove to be fruitful in some way, but that will all depend on my mood after this trip is over. I'm really getting fed up with all the scammers, and I see no sign of them going away in any hurry. Still, I enjoy traveling, so I may simply continue to do this, but without the "looking for love" part buggering up the works.



Train returns

swede
10-26-2008, 01:53 PM
You know, I like you, PeopleS.

I put sensibility very high, and you show a lot of that.

I hope everybody understands, that I as a person do not carry a grudge against FSUW or pretty women in general. And I completely agree with PeopleS, that it's impossible to generalise 100%. There's almost always a chance of the positive unexpected.

It's our own EXPECTATIONS, which are the keypoint. OK, so PeopleS, Prometheus and I have had our wounds in the war of the sexes, and we even got some of them being decent guys, without much possibility of defending ourselves. I do not believe the idea, that we have the ultimate responsibility for everything happening to us. Try to tell that to someone from a koncentration-camp.

But we do have the responsibility of choosing our future direction from the point where we are now, based on the wisdom or knowledge acquired from past experiences. We may even 'fail' again, until we learn.

We may start with a battery almost completely discharged, a 'beeb' position, where our glasses look half empty.

But the universe and existence in it is not static, for good or bad it's a dynamic process, and looked at it this way, the process is more important than the status quo. You can start from almost zero, but with directed intention you have a glass half filled (or more). In the end the process, our intentions, our direction are what defines us.

Sorry, I got carried away with me own inspirational talk. This is partly because I recently have been through a rather tiresome period of recharging myself, so I allowed myself to indulge in a 'human interest' perspective. I'll soon be normal again. That is, normal for me.

Prometheus
10-27-2008, 12:23 PM
quote:Another installment is on the table and will be ready for public viewing soon.

Give me the URL for your three Olgas, People. I have a "FSU MOB" series posted at another site. It's probably too racy for Swede's tastes, which is kind of strange, since Sweden is synonymous with sexuality here in the states. I even read this week that, "Supporters of the Stockholm-based AIK ice hockey team scored an unusual hat trick of heckling on Tuesday night featuring dildos, profane banners, and a giant inflatable penis." Hasn't happened at the Stanley Cup yet, but looking forward to it.



quote:I've had some contact with WM marrying thai or chinese women, and these men give a complete different picture, than those having FSU contacts. The thai or chinese women seem to manifest some contentment about their bettered material situation, and their attitude to marriage (or equalent relationships) is much more stable and durable, than the FSUW. Besides they also are willing to accept 'humble' starting conditions in their new lives; it's not an immediate craving for status and luxury from the first day. So there are different ways of reacting to a 'better' life.

Agree with you again, Swede. I've mentioned my friend who married a Chinese girl. She does the work of four men, manages the household and his business with remarkable efficiency. She's turned my laid back beer swilling running bud into a responsible, tight assed, success story. I'm amazed (and a little scared) at the transformation. She absolutely refuses to let him waste money on anything. He hit a bump in the road recently and was worried about making the mortgage payment. That's when she revealed he had a secret savings account with a $75,000 balance, that she'd been squirreling away for years. She even asked him if he was "angry" with her for doing that!

Give me a Zhen, a Hui, and a Ju and we'll battle three Olgas any day. How about a mud wrestling cage match? Loser has to leave this forum forever. [8D]

swede
10-27-2008, 02:49 PM
Hi Prometheus,

I was afraid, that you'd been caught up in a re-union frenzy. Such is traditional in breaking-ups of long-standing relationships, and is very embarrasing for all parts implied. Not least onlookers or confidants, who are supposed to be able to change opinions on a daily basis concerning the various pro and contras in the situation..

But you sound sane.

Don't believe, that I'm a prude. If the 'Kama Sutra' was to be written today, I could suggest an idea or two to its content. It's only, that there are some activities so private, intimate and even 'spiritual' (tantric sex), that I consider it crude and vulgar to have sandbox communication about it. In the end an attitude of infantile hypocrisy, sniggering around the subject, will diminish the act itself, when it turns up.

It's about the same, as when someone changes drinking into a competitive sport: "Oh boy, I had 18 pints of XXX last night, and how I puked....", as if this is a demonstration of macho supremacy.

Concerning my nativity, I'm happy to say, that I'm born danish and left for Sweden between 25-30 years of age. Swedish sexuality is, like swedish political 'liberalism', a small masterpiece of international disinformation manipulation. Even including US women, swedish women are the least sexually functioning females on this planet (with strong resemblances to US women, only worse). I can only recommend them to someone who has an active wish for boredom, frustration and becoming a superwimp.

Chinese. I once met this really unattractive western guy; fat, sneaky, unreliable (also to his friends), with a developed inability to keep a job and even being badly motivated for having one at first place. He was (is) married to this really cute chinese 'petite', whom he treated like 'beeb'. She stayed on, also after having her european equalent of a green card. And she didn't strike me as doing this because of strong masochistic tendencies. She was just married, end of discussion.

If I ever get around to searching for a new life-partner, I will certainly look in that direction. A supportive, sweet woman, not using half of her life on spending sprees, and the other half complaining about her hard lot. Ahhh, it sounds like heaven on earth.

Sorry, I'm not much for mudwrestling. It looks messy.

PeopleSmoks
10-27-2008, 04:46 PM
Hey guys! Ahhhhhhhhhh! My dear friend Prometheus, apparently you don't follow p-babbling very closely? "My Three Olgas" has been an on-going saga here within these hallowed pages for quite some time. It's a continuing mellow dramatic story based in fantasy... or is it? Despite the seemingly non-sensicle references to the bizarre habits of FSUWs living in the US, more and more, what started out as non-sense appears to have some basis in reality. I finished work early today, and have already begun the process of properly lubricating my brain cells, so I may have something a bit later?:D

These are my thoughts as to why Chinese girls may be so accomodating. I really hope for some feedback... even if you think I'm way off the mark, as we all agree, this thread is an exchange of thoughts, opinions, information and ideas.

I think it could simply be a two fold cultural thing for these Chinese girls to have such behavioral tendencies. The policies of bearing male children for so many years, may have placed a psychological stigma in the minds of so many Chinese women that they hold a greater value as an individual outside of the borders of China. Also, they know that despite the fact that abortion is legal in the US and other western countries, aborting a fetus simply because it is female is not normal practice, nor is it accepted socially.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but it has been my impression that Chinese women are treated similarly to the women in a number of Muslim countries. That being that they face overwhelming odds when it comes to job competion with male counterparts, as well as a general lesser valuing within their native society. Women are still second class citizens in China.

Deep rooted teachings of female social graces as defined by a male dominated culture also seem to mold these women toward a more demur nature. Okay, these are my thoughts, someone please correct me!

swede, don't worry, I'll do my best to keep "My Three Olgas" to a PG-13 rating. The union censors have signed a new agreement with management, and the 'beeps' are once again in abundance and ready for use! Besides, like an truely mindful humorist of days gone by, I feel that well placed innuendo can be even more affective than blatant obescenity anytime!;)

As for the mud wrestling... here in Jersey, we prefer Jello, and we also prefer that the combatants be two (or more) buxom strippers wearing slingshots!!![:0][:p]:D[8D]

Train returns

swede
10-27-2008, 05:57 PM
PeopleS,

just before I went to psychobabbling and saw your latest post, I spent an instructive hour or so on my old waterhole 'matchdoctor', which is a completely free site, and to my knowledge neither less nor more scammer infected than the average site.

Admittedly my present marriage soon will be turned into a relationship, and I still have some moral obligations concerning faithfulness, but I do not consider taking a look with no further action as a terrible sin. I actually think of it as a kind of 'research' for this forum, as I would like to know, what I'm talking about.

In any case. In the agegroup suitable for me, 45-65, I found app a dozen ukrainian women, most of whom hadn't been active for long periods. A couple of them I recognized from a year or two ago, and they smelled like scammers. Far too sirapy.

In the equalent chinese agegroup, there were app 1000 women, and at least 100 of them had been active in the last three days.

While the chinese women aren't so 'sexy' in the sometimes even provocatively and vulgar way UA and russian women can be, they nonetheless often posses a fragile beauty. Sadly they seem to fade earlier than FSUW, but in my case I've had my share of stunners with psycho personalities, both european and FSU, so I could very well think of relating to someone with a bit less outer beauty, if the inner beauty was correspondingly bigger.

Ofcourse the personality descriptions contained a lot of the, nowadays probably unavoidable, flowery language, but a certain percent of the profiles mentioned 'good worker' as one of their positive traits, which I consider a good sign. Someone willing to work will likely also be able to take some personal responsibility.

PeopleS, I guess that my knowledge of marital customs in China is about as small as yours. I once, years ago, had a rather long communication with a chinese women, a lawyer some ten years younger than me, and she seemed really straight. Except for one point, which made me terminate the relationship. She started out with rather old photos, and as our contact deepened, she sent me more and more recently taken photos. It's not such a bad thing to do, but it was enough to make me think twice, before getting real involved.

As far as I know, the traditional family pattern still playes a big role in all of China, with the older males having a higher status than women and children, but I don't think it's quite as bad as an some arabian cultures. At least not in the bigger chinese cities, where emancipation is growing. And I have firsthand information about urban chinese women, who exactly because of the preference of male babies, make up a considerably smaller percentual group than their potential male suitors. These chinese women can be, and often are, very choosy and demanding in their choice of a future partner. I do not know for certain, but I guess, that forcebly arranged marriages isn't so common in the urban China, as it used to be.

But still, I think they have a deeper roted steadiness concerning marriage, once it's done, than their sisters in FSUW.

Prometheus
10-27-2008, 08:41 PM
Well, if you want to see my Asian fantasy Google: "little asian Jin volume 3" (be sure to put the quotations marks around it). There's a volume one and two also. Smoking hot sexy Asian girl. Her boyfriend must feel like the luckiest guy on the planet.

My friend's wife has a sister. They got me in touch with her and we started corresponding by email. Very slender, very meek, seemingly the submissive type. After a week or two I said something along the lines of "if you had a rough day at work, i'd love to give you a back rub" or something. She completely freaked out on me. Said she's a "traditional Chinese girl" and she does not speak of such things with a man, etc., etc.

I asked my friend about it later, and he was like "you've really got to be careful about what you say to old school Chinese women. They don't speak of anything that could be construed to be sexual. My own friend has confided that after a good start, his sex life has more or less dried up too, but at least she's not out spending his money like Sarah Palin with a credit card.

So when you really get down to it, it's just a question of the male myth, the rare doe, the goodlooking girl who thinks she's ugly. Where does a guy find a quiet, submissive woman who's June Cleaver in the kitchen and Ginger Lynn in the bedroom? With all the money floating around out there, don't you think some scientist could cook one up?

Back to Asian Jin. My friend used to say, "Show me a smoking hot girl, and somewhere I'll show you a guy who is just sick of f*cking her." It is so true. Sad, but true.

swede
10-28-2008, 02:18 AM
At the beginning of psychobabbling, PeopleS and I once exchanged a few posts about politeness and decency, and I believe, I said something about mistaking rudeness for straightforwardness.

The question is to find the 'proper' language in a culture. After that, I believe, you can say almost anything. Maybe it's acceptable to say: "Will you be my opening lotus-blossom?" to a chinese woman, and she will giggle and be flattered, while you actually have said something incredibly suggestively pornographic. I don't know, I've never tried, really, but I don't think, it would be offensive.

After I met my first polish wife, and started to live together with her (in the biblical sense), she at one time mentioned, that "she was not feeling at her best just now". After a few efforts of finding out, if she was ill, I simply asked her, if she had her period. She was genuinely shocked; women and men 'don't talk about such things together'. And she wasn't a prude otherwise. In physically intimate situations, she showed few or no inhibitions.

Usually I'm averse to pornography, mostly because the quality (in any sense of the word) is so miserably low. Why anyone can find pleasure in f.ex. looking at some sexual acrobats, who look as if they have come straight from a lobotomy, is beyond me.

But I have met a few exceptions in pronographic books, all of them originating from some asian country. Their approach is very different from the standard western; the same difference you'd meet in reading thrillers written by John le Carr? and Mickey Spillane. Or a homecooked meal compared to a micro'ed TV dinner.

Vulgarity and gluttony is at best two-dimensional, real erotica can be like a symphony, where you can find new dimensions all the time.

In any case you'd probably have the same reaction, if you'd suggested a back-rubbing to a fundamentalist christian female. With a slight exaggeration, it's my impression, that some of these people take a bath with their clothes on, because exposed skin is an abomination in the eyes of the un-intelligent designer of the universe.

I think, that tantric sex possibly could be a subject of interest here on psychobabbling. The art of changing sex from an assembly-line like activity into a deep meeting between bodies, hearts and even 'souls'.

Prometheus
10-28-2008, 01:46 PM
When you mention Tantric sex Swede, I am reminded of Sex in the City star Kim Cattrall, who played a very oversexed women on the popular HBO show. Seems her character's overt sexuality spilt over into her personal life, and her significant other suggested that she write a book "for lovers." So we got this very poorly written work called "Satisfaction: The Art of the Female Orgasm." Basically a book about how to please a woman with your tongue.

She followed up that train wreck (you can buy a copy for $0.08 used on Amazon), with a coffee table book called "Sexual Intelligence." Publishers Weekly described it as follows: "Cattrall, aka the seductive Samantha Jones on Sex and the City, has wound up producing a weird mix of art book and sex manual, addressing the roots of desire, messaging, arousal, fantasy and "release."

So the overtly sexual actress and sex manual author divorced only a year later from her husband and co-author, Mark Levinson. In the divorce Levinson said that Cattrall was actually pretty bad in bed. Cattrall summed up the divorce as "worse than death." This after she waxed poetic in two books about the most "fabulous" sex of her life with Levinson. Just goes to show you can't believe everything you read.

As for tantric sex, one commentator noted, "As tantric practice became known in western culture?a development that started at the end of the 18th century, and that has escalated since the 1960s?it has become identified with its sexual methods. Consequently, its essential nature as spiritual practice is often overlooked."

As a spiritual pursuit, I am sure Tantra and Neotantra could be fulfilling if both parties were properly schooled and adherents to the essentially spiritual nature of the practice. I'm still looking for a woman who will go to church with me.

swede
10-28-2008, 06:25 PM
"Oh, ye of little faith",

Prometheus, it would make me very sad, if you believed, that I would tarnish Psychobabbling by dishing out new-age pop-culture here.

I'm aware of Tantra being an autonom religion, and I acknowledge it as that. But as the gods and I have a silent agreement, that we ignore each others existence (they don't like smartasses, and I don't like wannabe creators), I haven't any intention of getting involved in organised religion at my time of life.

And even if I did, Tantric theology is far too life-affirming to me. I would prefer something gloomy. Though not the fire and brimstone variety, which is just a special kind of mental illness, and I'm weird enough as it is. But something very intellectual and filled with "woes", selfpity and introspection.

So I approach tantric sex the same way as some people practise yoga. You don't have to be a hindu to do yoga, and it still functions. And in any case I'm not negative to what popularly is called 'sprituality' (if no gods are involved). Tantric sex can easily be used together with other kind of ideological/spiritual systems, though I suspect, that the original tantrics would like to have some copyright on it.

The thing is, that sexuality by itself creates a field, just like emotions and intellect do. (I call it a field, to avoid endless discussions about what came first: Sex, love, intellect or glands. It's the same with particles and energy, they can be both, but the idea of a field stops too much meaningless talking).

The sexual 'field' can, if used properly, lead to very strong results, both considered from a sexual, communication and spiritual angle. What most people do, when they believe they have sex, is usually just a few percent of the real thing.

To perform tantric sex, you actually don't need much schooling. Mastering attention, inner silence and concentration should be enough, and learning this only takes 10-15 years, which when it comes to the point, isn't that much compared to what some people do just to get laid, even badly.

But as you correctly pointed out, finding a suitable partner can be a problem, and inflatable plastic dolls aren't really a good substitute. Their sexual field is somewhat lacking (though they probably can be useful in other situations than tantric sex). But now and then, you actually see women seeking tantric partners on various dating-sites. So it's not completely hopeless.

Digression.

Why on earth would you want to drag a woman to a church? Is this some twisted way of getting laid?

WARNING: My following posts will contain material of adult character, so clear your calendar with the aim of staying glued to psychobabbling the next few days.

Prometheus
10-28-2008, 07:03 PM
Actually Swede, America has a horrible record for taking every good thing and turning into something bad. Yoga is one example. You have 1,000's of twenty something, thong clad, NERTS displaying "yoga instructors" in this country, who know NOTHING about yoga and who have merely bastardized it into another chance to show how far up your a$$ your leotards will climb (not that there's anything wrong with that).

So I would suggest that employing tantric techinques purely for physical gratification, is a bastardization of what tantra and neotantra are about in the first place. Thus, by definition, they are neither. It could be called a "tantra-like" or "tantra-invoking" experience, but not tantra.

Funny that there are singles ads looking for tantra partners. Why not just study at the temple, learn the spiritual practices, and have faith that a like minded partner will present herself in the divine order of things? Oh, I forgot, that would require FAITH (another thing that Americans love to talk about and have very little real experience with).

PeopleS, I'm watching your man McCain and his Soccer MILF self destruct day by day. Did you catch the interview where she could not name a single newspaper she reads on a regular basis? I am hoping that an Obama win next week will turn the page to a new chapter in our country's history. Then again, I may have more in common with Viktor Chernomyrdin than I care to admit: "We hoped for the best, but things turned out as usual.?

PeopleSmoks
10-28-2008, 07:05 PM
Hey guys!
quote:I'm still looking for a woman who will go to church with me.Um, have you tried looking for this type of girl in... A CHURCH???[:o)] Or, if you prefer the young ones, you could try your local Catholic school!!![:0]

Train returns

Prometheus
10-28-2008, 07:12 PM
quote:In any case you'd probably have the same reaction, if you'd suggested a back-rubbing to a fundamentalist christian female. With a slight exaggeration, it's my impression, that some of these people take a bath with their clothes on, because exposed skin is an abomination in the eyes of the un-intelligent designer of the universe.

Hate to tell you Swede, but born again pu$$y is among the hottest on the planet. These Bible thumppers spend more time thinking about sex than the rest of us put together. When they finally get a chance to have some, look out!

The reason is that sex, for them, is the ultimate forbidden pleasure. Of course sex is great to begin with, but for some reason you add the "I'm probably going to hell for doing this" aspect, and it just puts them over the top... screaming, thrashing, profanity laced, multi-orgasmic, "spank me I'm a naughty girl" whores of Babylon to the last one. Trouble is, they fall in love with you after one throw, and then you've got something stuck to the sole of your shoe for weeks or months afterwards. I got stalked after my last one and I just said no more Evangelical a$$, thank you.

swede
10-28-2008, 09:17 PM
Prometheus,

I couldn't agree more with you about the infamy by deforming things into something they aren't, and especially if it's connected with moneygrabbing. I have an intense dislike for such, and my aversion to almost anything new-age because of this equals my low opinion of politicians and fundamentalistic missionaries. I'm quite with you.

In the case of physical yoga exercises (I have a past with intensive yoga training), even a convinced atheist can benefit from it. The exercises in themselves do not lead to any spiritual insights, and in the original context never was said to do so. That the alternative lifestyle market is flooded with charlatans of all kinds is something, which doesn't come as a surprise for me. I've had contact with various alternative groups for 40+ years, and every year my disgust for the whole thing deepens.

But then you find incompetent carmechanics etc also. When I'm talking about such activities as yoga and tantric sex, I take it for granted, that the thing in question is based on a serious and competent attitude.

Concerning tantric sex I believe, that I have not expressed the opinion, that I exclusively have talked about it with only physical gratification as an aim. I have on a couple of occasions mentioned the spiritual possibilities implied in tantric sex, and that has always been one of my own main motives for practising it.

To be quite correct, I did take a small semantic liberty by genralising and 'revising' tantric sex the way I did. Ofcourse you're right by saying, that formally THE tantric sex-method is something closely associated with the tantric religion. So semantically I stand corrected. On the other hand the tibetan buddhists have annexed some of tantra, and nobody seem to protest much against that. You have any suggestions for a better name? Revisionist tantric sex?

In any case, what I was going to suggest, when I get around to the more precise details, DOES include a spiritual dimension. But I try to keep my prophet/missionary part toned down to a minimum, so if people want to try 'tantric sex' (until we agree on a better name) as a purely physical activity, I'm quite sure it will only make them better people. And in any case successful 'tantric sex' can be a door to better emotions and spirituality. If people want to open that door, is their own decision.

Personally I see 'tantric sex' as a meditation-method, and while 'tantric sex' contains more intrinsic spirituality than f.ex. physical yoga, the purely physical part is only to build up a strong field, from where energy can leap to 'higher' levels.
Good sex can be fun, and there's no harm in having a meditation-method which is actually pleasant already from the start. Normal meditation can be a bore.

PS We have the hypocritical attitude to sex amongst our local fundamentalist calvinsts here also. But publicly most of them would scream, if they were offered a back-rubbing.

PeopleSmoks
10-28-2008, 09:59 PM
Hey guys! Prometheus, your evaluation of "born agains", is nothing new really. Although, I would hesitate to make this statement about those who are serious about their newly found Christianity since it IS by choice. However, when I was a kid, it was common knowledge that among Catholic school girls, you had a basic left/right split of sorts. There were those who more or less believed in the gospel, some to the point of nunhood, and those who rebelled to the point of nymphomania! Oh yea, I mean knowledge and not hear-say. Camden Catholic was like the Garden of Sexual Eden in my area growing up!!![}:)]:D[8D]

I haven't commented on this tantric sex topic since I know nothing of it, and am altogether to lazy tonight to bother to google it. Maybe tomorrow? Right now, I'm busy trying to set up a few back ups for my trip, and waiting for my sister to get home. My dad called a little while ago... Apparently, her boss has tickets to game five of the World Series, which has been postponed for the last two nights, and he can't go tomorrow and has offered them to my little sister, who apparently has thought of her big brother, who is going to facilitate an unnecessarily long run-on sentence in order to fully exacerbate the situation to it's fullest possible unendingness, while using words that really have no cognative reason, meaning, nor existence outside of the realm of my own twisted, yet magnanamous mind!:D

Train returns

Prometheus
10-28-2008, 11:35 PM
Well you have the Phillies PeopleS, and we have the Longhorns. I was only 19 the last time the Phillies won the Series. The Rangers never have. On the football side, I am very curious to see how the Longhorns do against their fourth top ten opponent in as many weeks. If McCoy and company can pull this off, I think a national title is in their future. Trouble is, Lubbock has long been a stumbling block for the Horns. But McCoy has just been incredible this season, even more so than Vince Young in 2005. I hope, I hope, I hope...

PeopleSmoks
10-30-2008, 02:14 AM
Hey guys! Prometheus, to be more acurate, we have the World Series Champion Phillies!!!! I just got home from the game.
It was great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh, by the way, Penn State is number 1!!! Go Lions... Go Joe Pa!!!:D

Train returns

Prometheus
10-30-2008, 06:24 AM
Paterno is kind of scary to me PeopleS. Somewhere between Dawn of the Living Dead and Night of the Living Dead. They keep a crew on the sidelines to shock him periodically don't they???

PeopleSmoks
11-01-2008, 07:02 PM
Hey guys! No Prometheus, they don't have a crew on the field to shock Joe Pa, but I have heard rumors that there is a small contingient of Lyudmilas wearing cheerleader outfits with really nice pom-poms waiting for him in the coach's office at half time should he require some "assistance" with his playbook or just some general "cheering up"!!![:0];)[:o)]

I have to say, it's a bit strange as it gets closer to my trip. My Olga seems genuinely excited about our meeting. She even talks about the fact that she has been given some time off from work so that we can see each other during the daytime so we can take walks together and other "nice" type things.

I find myself continually having to remind myself not to get too darned excited about it though. We all know the old... "if it sounds too good to be true..."

But, at the same time, I have always said that it is almost impossible that EVERY FSUW is a scammer, gold-digger, pro-dater, etc... And that all a guy who looks for love in the FSU can do is hope he actually finds a "real" girl somewhere in the FSU/MOB dating mess. Maybe, even though she decidedly and most admittedly, [b]IS a bit younger than I was looking for, this girl is the one???

I see that I will have a tough balancing act to look forward to. Showing my interest and trying to express my thoughts and feelings, while keeping my emotions somewhat in check to protect myself from disappointment, yet not appearing to be cold or arrogant.

Her letters aren't overly flowery or filled with declarations of unbridled love for me, a man she has never met. Her letters talk about love, finding love, falling in love etc, basically the same as mine. She does tend to throw in the FSU lust for romance, but not in such a dramatic fashion... at least, not yet!

I admit that this is a slightly confusing situation for me. I also admit that I really seek female companionship at this point in my life, but am still very much afraid of making some stupid @ss mistake as I make this search by getting involved with the wrong girl as I have done in the past.

I also admit that I have had some pretty disturbing thoughts. Hey, I'm not rich by any means, but in the time since I split from my ex, the D.L.H.J.W, I've done okay. I live well within my means. I have a low overhead and sufficient income to enjoy myself without counting pennies before I go out, or worrying about the rent check, thus the two trips to Ukraine this year.

I'd really like to share my affection and comfortable life with a nice girl. Okay, a nice hot looking girl![:I] The thing is that as being alone begins to weigh on my thoughts, the thought of a five year relationship with an FSUW, then a break up doesn't seem so bad if it takes care of the present loneliness. Kind of sad, huh?

The really bad part is that I was thinking the same crap I did when I was a young dumb@ss! After a few years, if she wants to go, okay, b-bye!!! I'll go find another one just like you with the same name and everything so I won't screw up in the throws of passion and call out the wrong name! Pretty sick, huh?[V]

One of the things I've come to realize, is that during my FSU/MOB searching, I've completely forgone American girls and local dating. I don't even bother. It's been more than 9 years since I've hunted locally!

Well, my Olga seems to be real enough, and soon I'll find out for sure. She is so very sweet in her letters without being mushy, and seems almost too perfect. It's scary! On the plane in 12 days!




Train returns

swede
11-02-2008, 08:31 AM
Hi PeopleS,

the difference between the sheepwalkers and the potentially 'aware'/scriptwakened is, that the sheepwalkers usually only move around inside the circle of the paradigms, they are used to. And once they for good or bad have settled into this rut, nothing can make them change voluntarily.

The potentially aware/scriptwakened will often question the limitations, they see around them and strive for something grander, 'truer', deeper etc and be in a conflict situation not only with society and life, but also with themselves. To borrow a word from mysticism, a person striving for understanding tries to transcend him/herself. To discard even the integrated personal parts, which are deemed dysfunctional, and exchange them for something potentially better.

Such a process of change almost always implies inconvenience, even pain. It can even lead to a kind of inner schism, with one part of our totality being at odds with another.

As a simple physical example, to stop smoking, can be used. Most smokers know that tobacco isn't especially healthy, but habit, addiction and hedonistic pleasure makes it difficult to stop. It takes an act of will (whatever 'will' really is?) to turn the balance between smoking/not-smoking.

Sheepwalkers never make such decisions. If they are smokers and tobacco is cheap, they smoke. If our leaders, in all their wisdom, suddenly decides, that tobacco (alcohol, pot etc) is bad for some reason, they take correspondingly steps to prevent the use of it. And the sleepwalkers will slowly adjust and follow.

Non-sheepwalkers usually want to make their own decisions, in spite of the price this sometimes has; even when this manifests as an inner conflict. And at least talking for myself, I can now look back at my life and see, where I often went wrong, when I looked for a partner.

Even for a non-sheepwalker (or 'outsider' as some call it), I'm on the extreme side, but nonetheless there have been routine parts of me, which are so deeply embedded in my body and character, that I succumbed to them. When looking for a woman, I let her outer appearance weight more than her personality. The result has been a long row of occasionally stunningly attractive partners. And while a beautiful, sexually attractive women not necessarily is a dumb bimbo, she usually is so spolied by all the men drooling over her, that she ends up believing, that she has divine dispensation for becoming a raving egocentriac. And no-one can live with a such a person for a longer period.

Knowing this now, and 20 years to late, I can see, that if I ever restart a search for a lifepartner, it will include not only the outside part of the process, finding someone interested in me, but also an inner aspect, where I must keep down my own hedonistic tendencies, by patiently biding my time for someone, who has inner qualities.

I think PeopleS, that you expressed this in an almost poetic way in your post.

Have your present Olga and you ever discussed the 'soap-opera' syndrom?

PS I noticed, that the subject of tantra has turned up on the adds below this thread. Apparantly someone higher up in the forum hierachy IS reading, what we post here and react to it. So I'll return to presenting my version of modified tantra soon.

Prometheus
11-02-2008, 08:37 AM
OUCH! "Thriller in Lubbock! Texas Tech stuns Texas! Harrell-Crabtree hook up for TD with 1 second left to shock No. 1 ?Horns." That pretty much ruined my week.

People. I am happy for you, and wish you well on your trip. I don't believe that every FSUW is a scam artist. I love my FSUW very much, and that is what makes my current situation so painful. You've received the best advice available from people like Swede and me, so you know what you're up against. "Hope for the best, but don't be surprised if the usual occurs."

My beloved left "for the gym" at 9 a.m. on Saturday, then "went to the mall" for the rest of the day. Came home briefly before leaving for "Halloween office party." It's 4 a.m. and I'm still here alone. [xx(] I think the J. Geils Band said it best, "love stinks."

swede
11-02-2008, 08:45 AM
Something weird is happening of a possibly technical character. In my latest post, I twice used the word awakened, but even after an edition, this turns up as 'scriptwakened'?????

Prometheus
11-02-2008, 08:51 AM
quote:Originally posted by swede

PS I noticed, that the subject of tantra has turned up on the adds below this thread. Apparantly someone higher up in the forum hierachy IS reading, what we post here and react to it. So I'll return to presenting my version of modified tantra soon.


I am sporting an ad for Dr. Wayne Dyer's "Manifest Your Destiny" this a.m.

Wayne Dyer and Deepak Chopra represent everything wrong with so-called "New Age" Philosophy that you have commented on Swede. It's this incredibly sacharrine "get what you want without the heavy lifting" school of thought for fat, middle aged baby boomers. I am constantly amazed that a market exists for this kind of thing, but apparently there is a large market for wistful, feel good, don't think too hard or you might hurt yourself thought. Blech!

Prometheus
11-02-2008, 09:08 AM
aware/scriptwakened test

Me too Swede. Welcome to the Matrix. This would be that part where we are in a subway station to nowhere.

swede
11-02-2008, 12:01 PM
Prometheus,

you surprise me, and maybe I've been a bit unfair to you in my private thoughts, believing that your interest in mammary glands and sport didn't leave much place for anything else.

You have my sincere apologies.

Obviously I'm very interested in the spirititual, existential, theological and epistemological aspects of life, but the Disney- or Legoland new-age variety is an abomination in my eyes. The pseudo-spiritual equalent of soap-operas.

So you're a matrix fan also. Though the writers and directors of the movies did a lot of homework on the subject, it can't be denied, that some of the content is rather superficial. The theological associations get too contradictive at times, as if the idea is to make believers of all religions happy at the same time.

Spoonbendning at zen-level and Zions don't fit into the same box. But then I've only seen the films 10 or 15 times, and could have missed a common denominator.

But still, the gnostic startingpoint is clearcut, and the human battery-symbolism is an act of genious.

Most of my writings here (and elsewhere) center around the matrix idea, which is getting less and less paranoic conspiracy theory and more realistic every day.

When I finally get enough energy to start my tantric 'lecture', it will be on the basis of considering modified tantra more as a tool for awareness than just a method for exclusively physical gratification.

PeopleSmoks
11-02-2008, 02:17 PM
Hey guys! Well, I guess I can try the awakened test. aware/scriptwakened . You're saying it changes to aware/scriptwakened? Strange???

No swede, I haven't directly proposed the issue of the FSUW 'soap-opera' syndrome to my Olga. It's a subject that I have not tried to avoid so much, haven't thrown into the conversation. I've been more or less attempting to pick up clues as to whether or not she lives in this clouded state of self-delusion by more covert means.

As I say, she talks of love and romance, but hasn't crossed the line into "soap opera" fantasy yet. And her talk of love isn't of the old, "I love you with all my heart, person whom I've never met..." type of over the top declaration.

We talk about possibilities, maybes, what ifs and such. Like I've said, she really interests me, despite her younger age and seems to be serious, at least about finding a WM as a future mate. Whether she and I really are a good match, our meeting will tell us about that.[8D]

Train returns

Interesting anomaly! The bizarre metomorphisis of awakened into "scriptwakened" when paired with aware/. New test, a space between the / and awakened... aware/ awakened

Well, there we have it! Just add a space. I generally do this anyway, so I probably would have never noticed this word morph.

swede
11-02-2008, 03:14 PM
Just a short comment on the sometimes strange behaviour from the forum.

Ofcourse there are filters for 'beeb' words, something I personally find completely acceptable, otherwise the thing could change into a lavatory wall with N-words and puerile sexuality.

But I went back to my own saved posts, and noticed, that the deleted period on the forum corresponds almost exactly to the period, when I started posting my 'mad priest' pastiches on humouristic conspiracy theory.

It could be a coincidence.

Or it could be, that the filters reflect more than just a decent use of language. As with my observation about tantra-adds on this thread,
I have formerly noticed, that the adds often seem to follow some of the topics, we are taking up. Maybe there's a mechanic function presenting adds according to certain central words in our texts.

It is peculiar. This thread has a certain popularity, but on an international basis, and for commercial reasons our 100-200 visitors a day isn't that impressive. And that this should happen on a manual basis seems even more unlikely.

It's not that I mind commercialism on this scale. For me it's OK to try to make your fortune as a private enterpriser, as long as certain fundamental ethic standards exist. And that we as writers and with a few hundred readers are given the opportunity to roam around mentally has ofcourse to be paid somehow.

But these small inconsistencies intrigue me.

As to put questions of 'soap-opera' addiction bluntly or slowly is probably a matter of how the communication develops. When I formerly made my personality profiles, I was very careful about accentuating my 'outsiderness' in a clear way, while I also promised a certain social stability (which I like PeopleS can demonstrate and live up to). NO FSUW, even the potential 'real' ones, reacted to that aspect of my character.

And as there's a craze for anything 'esoteric' (as they call it in FSU) going on, albeit on the worst level of new-age junk, my 'weirdness' should have been related to in one way or another. So maybe any approach to existential analysis is met by a blind spot, just like the moral question whether american, lovesick men are natural prey or not.

FSU answer: "Well ofcourse they are. Anything wrong with that??".

Do cats eat mice?

Prometheus
11-02-2008, 05:55 PM
Here's how my morning went.

FSUW gets up and makes everyone breakfast for a change: GOOD.

FSUW begins picking fight with my 10 year old, before breakfast is even served, in which she calls him "mentally ill" "sick" and other similar things you should never say to another human being, much less a child: BAD.

I've lost my appetite by now, as the two are screaming across the table at each other. I scrape the untouched breakfast in the trash and take my coffee (a particularly fowl concoction FSUW is fond of called "mud") out back by the pool: BAD.

FSUW follows me out back to argue about, in no particular order: her strep throat, her wardrobe, her Halloween parties, and of course, my son. An assault on the senses. BAD.

I advise FSUW that lease is almost over and I am getting a place for myself. "I am just telling you to get busy making arrangements. I don't want you do go into shock when the moving van pulls up." GOOD.

FSUW sits on my lap and informs that she will not allow me to leave her, and if she ever finds me with another woman, "I will kill her." BAD.

I went to the office with my son. GOOD.

FSUW called screaming that she's home alone and she "wants to spend some time" with me today. BAD.

Get the picture? [xx(][xx(][xx(]

swede
11-02-2008, 06:35 PM
Considering what we are talking about, 5 BADs and 3 GOODs looks like a fairly nice day.

But I follow you, oh brother in misery.

When I visited my ?fianc?e' in UA for the first time, she had a tantrum a few days after my arrival, because I in the presence of her best friend (also a gold-digger), absolutely refused to present the: 'Traditional ukrainian gift from the suitor to his new love'. Say somewhere around $500 in cash or goods.

I was told, that she (my 'fianc?e') had never been so shamed in all her life as by my stingyness, and that she reconsidered our relationship because of my bad character.

When I like a gentleman offered to agree with her, that she was free to reconsider as much as she needed, and she could contact me back in Sweden, when she'd arrived at a conclusion, she behaved much like your specimen, by performing attentionspan-collapse and loving me forever. At a considerably reduced price.

Words come cheap.

swede
11-03-2008, 12:00 PM
Modified tantric sex. Part 1.

I warned at the beginning of this thread, that it occasionally would be abstract and somewhat highbrow. But no-one is forcing anyone to read it.


For my purpose here, I will use our present knowledge of the universe as an approximative truth.

At a certain level in the formation of the universe, various forces create by their interaction of attraction and repulsion, what I will call 'structures'. From our standard point-of-view, at first relatively uncomplex such, as f.ex. elementary particles, but as the universe-formation continues, such simpler structures will, still influenced by the interaction of forces, connect into more and more complex structures. Atoms, molecules, cells and up to the extreme complexity of f.ex. biological life.

From the perspective of human perception, we can observe two of these forces without use of scientific knowledge or apparatus. Gravity and elctromagnetism. There are two known ones more, which we can't percieve directly, as they operate at subatomar level.

These four known forces together make up the basis of what we perceptually experience as the universe, by acchieving a balance between them. But, and this is a very important point, such balances are seldom (if ever) completely stable, they eventually break down. Even the strongest of such structures, created by the strong nuclear force, will dissolve in the end (though we don't have to worry about this now. It will be a long, long time until it happens).

A reasonable explanation for this unsteadiness in the fabric of the universe is, that the aforementioned forces aren't completely symmetric, it's difficult to arrive at a perfect harmonic balance or equilibrium between them. In normal language it could be said, that most structures created by force-interaction are incomplete, or simply 'lack' something. And as it's in the fundamental nature of forces to strive for equilibrium, by being attracted to the 'missing' part, the 'lack' leads to an unending search for this missing part.

(E.g. anything with a surplus of negative electrical charge will be attracted to something containing positive electrical charge).

If we look at this process of never perfect equilibrium, but this time on the level of biological life, we will, with allowance for a considerably greater complexity, still find the same fundamental pattern. In simple language again: Everything is looking for something. In the sphere of animal life this 'looking for something' manifests as instinctive needs at the physical level, with corresponding psychological drives at the mental level.

Alltogether this means, that the universe is dynamic in its character, ever changing, and that evolution in a way can be said to be the description of the universe's inner 'natural' workings.

As human beings we all acknowledge the need for air, water, food, shelter and safety. And as with other mammals we also have a need for propagation (sex and sometimes parental care).

This 'looking for something', expressed in our needs and as a manifestation of a universal principle, can by an aware/conscious species (like humanity) be considered from a theological/existential/cosmological perspective (depending on your map of life). That our needs exist is hard to deny, but the way we gratify them can be approached in two different ways. As we so often have talked about here, we can either accept predation as the main 'natural' way of the universe to gratify needs, including the claw and tooth inconvenience for the eaten part in a predatory situation. Or we can consider symbiosis as a method for gratifying out needs, knowing that symbiosis has its explanation/justification partly outside the known laws of the predatory universe and necessitates 'intent' (directed will) to be used.

The difference of these two approaches exemplifies the difference between the middle- and the far east-originated religions. But I will not go to deep into this now, only say that tantra (and tantric sex) is a highly pleasurable way of solving the problem of how to accept the existence of needs and combine it with a wish for a symbiotic. It functions by transmuting the sexual need and drive into something, which can be used symbiotically. It originates from some part of India.

Here I must explain, why I want to use a modified tantric sex, and not the original. For two reasons: Original tantra has some deep roots in the chakra/kundalini model, which I not only consider incorrect, but actually dangerous if used practically. And secondly there is an element of sexism, with a glorification of male sperm as a kind of divine substance reserved for the male's spiritual development, making the female in the relationship into a kind of technical asset, necessary for the process, but unable to benefit much from it in any case.

Prometheus
11-03-2008, 02:24 PM
Swede,

I think that with the Enlightenment, the Rennaisance, and the Reformation, Western man got caught in a trap of intellectual inquiry, a need to dissect and explain everything in the driest of terms. The trouble is, spirituality was the first victim of this process. Hence it was not enough to partake of communion as the literal and figurative body and blood of Christ, we had to create the doctrine of "transubstantiation" to explain how that occurs in the chalice and the recipient's body.

What I love about Eastern religion, including my own Eastern Orthodoxy, is that some things are just accepted to BE. There is no need to understand in technical terms, rather it is enough to merely experience.

The 'structures' that you identify, to me, are merely the presence of the divine life force ("God" if you will) that exists and transcends at the molecular level. Thus mankind, and the world, are more of an enviro-organism that acts and interacts at all levels, rather than independent free spirits that enjoy a unique separate identity. I think this Western emphasis on individuality belies the fact that we are not truly individuals, we act in concert with plants that give off oxygen and consume our carbon dioxide. We act in concert with a host of organisms in our own bodies that make digestion possible.

Thus meditation, yoga, tai chi, and meditative prayer, are all a means of shutting down the inner dialogue ("the voices in your head"), to permit interaction with the divine life force in silence. I suspect that is why tantric sex (modified or not) is so pleasurable. It is plugging back into the essential life force to relish the essential unity we share with every living person and every living thing in creation.

But please continue! Look forward to the next installment.

Prometheus

swede
11-03-2008, 06:10 PM
Hi Prometheus,

what a pleasure to recieve communication at such depth as in your last post. But first let me ask you: The eastern orthodoxy you confess to, would that be the christian orthodox church or far eastern religion in general?

And before I continue with responding to your post, I know very well, that part one of 'modified tantric sex' could have been compressed into something like: "We all look for something", but I consider this insufficent as a communicationbasis. Hence the pedantic and somewhat detailed presentation.

To return to your post. I'm ofcourse familar with the antagonism between science and organised christianity, and for that sake between science and a lot of other theological/spiritual maps. My own stand is a bit unusual, as I'm not a fighter on any of these sides, and especially not as a proposer of reductionist 'scientism', which epistemologically is as about as undefensible as many religions based purely on 'faith'.

In my opinion people can believe in any ideology they like, as long as they don't turn it into crusades. But as you probably have noticed, we have an abundance of absolute and ultimate 'truths' on this planet (some of them disagreeing wildly with each other), so for a truthseeker as me, it can be an arduous process to weed out in this jungle.

My own answer has been to construct an epistemological method (as epistemology is the first hurdle to pass), where I can choose and pick from all the information, I recieve from various 'maps', belief-systems, tunnel-realities etc, each of them based on what I usually consider rather narrow axioms or assumptions. My criteria for information-validity is based on: The axioms and assumptions each beliefsystem rests on; its willingness to selfcensure itself; and finally on my personal level, how well such information fits into a greater pattern, where the resulting answers actually seem to describe existence.

Seen from this angle and with communication in mind, I count 'faith' rather low on my list, because what's f.ex. written in one silly book is as valuable or invaluable as something written in another silly book, differing from the first. Whereas science (as long as it remembers its place) ranges higher, as it does seem to give a fair description of what it's talking about. When science forgets its place, as when it starts to argue about phenomena outside its competence (as in the case of spirituality, para-normality, transcendence), it's just as valueless as any other beliefsystem expanding beyond its own territory.

Well, this was my usual circumstantial way of approaching things.

You take up some interesting points. The 'just to be' (instead of analysing) model, the existence and character of 'god', individuality as compared to unity and the various methods of acchieving a higher spiritual goal (e.g. union with 'god', nirvana, universal awareness AS 'god' etc).

It would be a long post, if I tried to answer all this at once, so let me end for now, by stating my own fundament. I have some approximative truths, I believe in as a basis, and I evaluate information as potential facts by seeing if they (in spite of origin) can give sensible answers on a grand scale. Alltogher this places me loosely somewhere around intellectual gnosticism, with a bit of hinayana buddhism, and a respect for science as a describer of the mechanistic manifestations of the universe.

I don't know, if this last positioning myself can help to avoid too much circumstantial talk from me, but in any case I will enjoy continuing a bit this way, before I return to modified tantric sex. So if you're game, let's see how far our common models and assumptions go in agreement. After that a peaceful debate is possible.

Prometheus
11-03-2008, 07:13 PM
Swede,

By way of background information, and certainly not to proseletyze, I spent my youth in the Protestant church, largely with the Episcopal (Church of England) faith and others, seeking all the while some valid expression of Christian faith, which I generally felt lacked historical authenticity and a connection back to the early church fathers. At the same time, I chaffed at the idea of becoming a Roman Catholic, because I could not accept the infalibility of the Pope (particularly in light of Roman history).

This led me on a journey of many years through eastern thought and philosophy. I studied at a Theravadan temple for a year (see I'm orthodox even in my Buddhism). I read extensively concerning Hinduism, Taoism, and even attended Unity services where people like Wayne Dyer and Deepak Chopra spoke.

My conversion to Eastern Orthodox Christianity was quite amazing, reading the Philokalia and early fathers, I finally found an uninterrupted line of unchanged doctrine and practice back to the time of Christ, historical provenance, and a view of the faith that was quite different from my experiences in Protestantism. Literally, Christ did not come to earth "to die on the cross for man's sins" (which always seemed rediculous to me, wouldn't an 'I forgive you' be easier?). Rather, as St. Athanasius of Alexander said in the 4th Century, "God became man, so that man could become God." The goal of Eastern Orthodox faith is the state of "Theosis" (unity with God). It is a daily practice and lived through constant observance and humility. No "say the 'sinner's prayer' and you're saved" in Orthodoxy.

So I view myself to be on a journey of faith and humility. I accept all things as created by God. Each breath I take is a communion. I have found my absolute truth, but I also respect the right of others to find their own, to disagree with me, and I reject the notion that I am worthy or capable to judge another's beliefs or convictions. There are absolutes, as St. Paul and the Prophet Jeremiah said, "God's laws are written on our hearts." Still it is not for me or anyone else to judge, as God alone can do that.

There are many similarities in the eastern faiths. I think Theravadan Buddhism's "enlightenment" is more like the Eastern Orthodoxy's "Theosis," than say a Southern Baptist's definition of "being born again." In that regard, my studies in the east fully prepared me for the next step in my spiritual journey.

So we call this psychobabbling, and I have babbled enough.

PeopleSmoks
11-03-2008, 08:34 PM
Hey guys! When examining the issues of faith, religion etc, I have done much the same as I do with so many other things. I look at it all, evaluate it, reason it out within the limits of my own perception of the world , universe and life, keep that which makes sense to me and leave the rest to those who's beliefs can be filled by it.

The overall phylosophy that I embrace is, "What ever gets your butt out of bed in the morning is just great!!!":D

I feel that an individual should follow what makes him or her feel good about him or herself and give the individual hope and purpose to their life. If it happens to be an organized religion, okay. If it happens to be money, okay. I don't necessarily prescribe to either, but there are some who do. Go for it!

The inner peace as sought by many eastern religions is simply not in my character and never will be, but I'm quite okay with that. I also have not been exposed to these religions except for movies and TV, so it really has never been a part of my life, therefore, I don't miss it.

Science has it's place to be sure. Even the eastern cultures were able to separate science from religion with relative success. It's only when science begins to think it is God that it becomes an abomination. I believe there are things that simply can't be explained with a mathematical equation.



Train returns

swede
11-03-2008, 08:50 PM
That was quite impressive, Prometheus, not least from the angle of searching for answers instead of passively accepting, what is dished out to you from parents or culture.

Thanks for your information about the orthodox church. In spite of my rather extensive knowledge of religion in general, the orthodox church is an almost white spot on my map. Maybe because it isn't so 'noisy' as some other religious organisations; defintitely recommendable .

While not agreeing with all the doctrines in christianity, be it protestant, roman or orthodox, I can as a person respect your attitude. Besides you denounce some of the more debatable points in protestantism and catholicism. E.g. the 'credit card' theology, where you have some endless spiritual credit, paid in advance by someone else to pay for your own shortcomings.

I also like the idea of approaching 'god' as result of your own joining into the process of 'Theosis'. It does imply a certain amount of personal responsibility, free will and choice, as opposite to the recurrent theme of total predeterminism in christianity (clearly a church-political power-oriented maneuver to change the believers into mindless, grovelling idiots).

Where you and I sem to go separate ways is on the question of 'quality' of universal existence. The age old question, never really properly answered by christianity, of a universe partly filled with misery and pain created by a 'good god'.
Being as well versed as you are, there is no need for me to repeat the standard arguments for and against this paradox, except by stating, that I find the explanation: "Don't ask questions, don't try to get knowledge by eating apples, and don't try to communicate with the lightbearer, because he's one of the bad guys. You just have to be satisfied with, that I, your God, am mysterious".

You would expect such from Stalin, Hitler, Mao and some recent american presidents, but sorry, in this connection I find the buddhistic and/or gnostic answers much more reasonable and useful.

But in any case my own approximative truths are:

Miracles can occur (the 'natural' laws as defined by science aren't ultimate). I am an amateur Reiki healer, and I once cured a terminal cancer on a patient given 6 months more by his doctors. That's a 'miracle' considered by todays scientific knowledge. I have also experienced firsthand quite a few 'paranormal' phenomena in my life.

'Faith' exists as a functional and real part of our psychology and/or spiritual being; but faith can't be used to defend or prove any specific doctrine in any religion, as the manifested results of faith (such as the mystic's transcendence/divine contact and faithhealings occur in almost all religions). No religion can put copyright on faith and use it for its own purpose.

I believe in the possibility of changing your own level of spiritual understanding (whether the result is communion with 'god' or Nirvana......). As you said, 'Theosis' have some similarities to Theravada nirvana (I'm a bit sceptical of mahayana, which I suspect of being slightly wishy-washy). When it REALLY comes to it, the final outcome is an experience, rather than a doctrinal point.

I believe in utilititarianism and humanism, with or without theological implications.

And I believe there's evidence for a designed universe. BUT, this does not lead to the automatic conclusion, that the designer necessarily is 'good'. A universe where small children are slaughtered, misused or starve to death, a universe where animals are hunted to death for sport (I can understand for food or in selfdefence) etc...

....this is not my ideal universe, and I think it needs some rearranging, and its creator given some serious therapy.

Prometheus, you've probably heard all this before, but rest assured, that I wouldn't carry my points of view further than this intellectual presentation. Ofcourse unless some religious maniacs would try to remove my possibilty for having my own opinions.

If you have any comments from the orthodox angle concerning my preference of the creator as a demiurge, I would wellcome them. Otherwise I will take up the subject of individuality/unity and this way get around to modified tantric sex in my coming posts. I believe we have a sound communication-basis now.

And don't be afraid of 'proselyting' me, as you can guess, it would take quite a lot to topple me. But I like listening to counterarguments, as I also learn this way.

And I believe, that when this topic has run its course in a few days, we need a good dose of Olga myths to clean away the cobwebs of serious talking. That's the advantage of psychobabbling. We aren't expected to stay fixed in specific roles.

swede
11-03-2008, 08:59 PM
PeopleS,

ofcourse you're right about religion being a private concern. But as with any other organised activity, it can and has been used for manipulative reasons.

Even when not openly using violence or force, religion influences our basic cultures in subtle ways, which we just have to relate to. Just as we would with e.g. political or economical forces at play.

It's your choice not to follow any specific 'spiritual' path, and I can't see any fault with that. But I see you as a very inquisitive person, no matter how you express it. And as such you are mainly responsible for the relative success of this thread. I would have bored the readers to death months ago.

Prometheus
11-03-2008, 10:04 PM
quote:Originally posted by swede

Thanks for your information about the orthodox church. In spite of my rather extensive knowledge of religion in general, the orthodox church is an almost white spot on my map. Maybe because it isn't so 'noisy' as some other religious organisations; defintitely recommendable .



The early Christian aesthetics simply went into the wilderness and spent their lives in prayer in caves or simple cells. These saints in their writings preserved and recorded essential early doctrines concerning the path to Theosis that are preserved in the four volume Philokalia and early church writings. Their monasteries, particularly at Mt. Sinai and Mt. Athos in Greece, are repositories of much history. For example, the Codex Sinaiticus, the oldest copy of the New Testament, has been preserved for almost 2,000 years on Mt. Sinai at St. Catherine's monastery.

Most people in the West do not realize that the early church was governed by five Patriarchs based in Rome, Constantinople, Antioch, Jerusalem, and Alexandria. The church convened as needed over eight centuries in seven different Ecumenical Councils to confer on doctrinal issues or to rebuff arising heresies such as Arianism and Nestorianism.

In the late 9th Century, the Patriarch of Rome unilaterally amended the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed, repeated daily for more than 600 years, to include the "filioque." The change altered the essential origin and nature of the Holy Spirit, and caused considerable debate. When the east finally rejected Rome's alteration of the Creed, the Pope excommunicated the four remaining Patriarchs in 1054, by laying a papal bull on the alter of the Hagia Sophia in Constantinople. This act is known as the "Great Schism."

Freed of the East's more conservative approach, Rome wasted little time in declaring priests were forbidden to marry (thus converting all church property to Rome's control within a generation). Additional Papal Conferences produced doctrinal shifts including transubstantiation, the immaculate conception of Mary, purgatory, indulgences, the infallibility of the Pope, and even Vatican II (making Roman faith more user friendly by eliminating more strict requirements for fasting, prayer, and confession). I won't even mention the Fourth Crusade and the sacking of Constantinople in 1204, complete with the rape of nuns and burning of churches while pope Innocent III turned a blind eye. As the result of the foregoing heresies, we had the Western Reformation and Counter-Reformation.

What was once one church is now 2500 different professed denominations, some of which bear absolutely no resemblance at all to the original profession of faith. Once Martin Luther said "every man is a priest" and "sola scriptura," you now have 6.5 Billion people on this planet empowered to read the Bible, decide what it means, and create God in man's own image. That is how the West killed God. How can there be absolute truth, if there is no absolute God? Is each generation free to "change" God to make God relevant to their generation? That has been the Western tradition now for almost a millenia.

Meanwhile, the path to Theosis is quietly observed in Orthodox churches and monasteries around the world. Time moves very slowly there. It might take several hundred years to make a decision on clarification of a doctrinal division. I was instructed to leave no trace. "Keep the path, and leave it as you found it for the next believer who will follow you in death."

I actually approached Orthodoxy with a certain Protestant zeal, convinced that outreach was the way to spread growth. I was rebuffed and told to stay in prayer, and God will lead those who need to be here. After you've lived in the prayers, the feasts, the fasts, the passing of the liturgical calendar to yet another year, you begin the experience the wisdom of it all. It is quite like the Buddhist "path of awakening." It stops being about the destination in favor of an awareness of the journey.

So I add that because you asked. We now return to booty call in progress. [:I]

swede
11-03-2008, 11:31 PM
Hi Prometheus,

I forward a sincere thanks for your presentation, and while it doesn't leads to a risk of my immediate converting, it's definitely attractive enough to deserve further consideration. I'm also 'slow' in my approach to such aspects of the deeper parts of life.

I will try to get hold of some of the material, you mentioned.

In spite of your insistence on orthodox methodology and purity, I may eventually 'incorporate' parts of othodox doctrines in my map. Syncretism being a legitimate method for me. Hope you can accept such an attitude, without considering it flimsy, disrespectful or superficial.

Cit:

"How can there be absolute truth, if there is no absolute God?"

I'm aware, that my allegory now is far from how you would describe it, and I do not intend to 'prove' any points by the following, I'm just underlining my position:

While you (Prometheus) are trying to establish a dialogue with the prison director, I (Swede) am planning an escape.

My potential 'absolutes' are beyond the universe and its creator; you seek your answers and/or experiences inside or with the universe and its creator. I seek it outside. But the methods for finding and experiencing them (the absolutes) are similar to yours and what you have described concerning orthodoxy.

I have for the last month had something like 40 minutes of direct social contact altogether, a situation which suits me fine, as it gives me possibilty of concentrating on a 'spiritual' path (defined in a somewhat wider way, than you maybe would do. No disrespect intended).

So I have a hermit-like life, with the usual degree of 'madness' included an open question, depending on the perspective. That's one main reason, why I find living with a FSUW and the associated soap-opera situation so taxing. Your homesituation would drive me over the brink quickly.

It's now turning-in time in my timezone, but our recent exchanges have been very mentally stimulating for me, and will certainly spur me to aspire for clarity on my return.

Prometheus
11-04-2008, 02:18 PM
quote:So I have a hermit-like life, with the usual degree of 'madness' included an open question, depending on the perspective. That's one main reason, why I find living with a FSUW and the associated soap-opera situation so taxing. Your homesituation would drive me over the brink quickly.

Which brings up an interesting point. I asked my priest and confessor for permission to leave my FSUW. He said it was not his permission to give, because the Holy Apostle Paul cautioned to not turn out an unbelieving wife who did not wish to be released from marriage.

Then he told me not to be angry or irritated but to be grateful for my FSUW. "Each time she insults you, or tempts you to anger, remember that Christ was spat on and said nothing. Give thanks that she daily gives you an opportunity to choose to be humble, and to choose to return spitefulness with love. She may simply be the instructor God has provided to speed you on the path to Theosis. Treat her as a blessing, not as a curse, and see how you are transformed by that."

Wow, it's time to take the training wheels off. Wish I could say I've followed his advice, but it does make sense. Our "Reality" is nothing more than the sum of our experiences filtered by our perceptions. Change the filter, and reap a completely different outcome.

Prometheus
11-04-2008, 02:27 PM
On another note. The day is finally upon us. Election Obama vs. McCain. The polls have been predicting an Obama landslide, but I think it will be much closer than anyone thought with contested election results in Ohio and Florida (again), possibly even Pennsylvania. Trouble is, disaffected African-Americans are going to take to the streets in the event of a McCain win, and I predict there will be rioting in Los Angeles, Detroit, Chicago, Washington D.C., and possibly even Atlanta. The McCain campaign took a very dark turn about 60 days ago, calling Obama a consort of terrorist and emphasizing his middle name (Hussein). Look for some Obama assassination attempts before, during, and after the inauguration. In any event, dark times ahead for America and the world. I blame George W. Bush and his greedy consorts for about 80% of this, but I blame the American public too... lazy, unread, disaffected, ill-informed. We get what we deserve from our leaders, because we don't demand more.

swede
11-04-2008, 03:19 PM
Haven't got so much energy today, so only a few comments.

Gurdjieff said something like your priest about challenges being a blessing. He called it 'friction' and said it was one of the best ways to acchieve higher awareness.

I can only join you in your political hopes. My opinion of Bush is unprintable (and I'm even relative conservative according to local politics). He is as the front figure for all those money-, power- and warmongers responsible for bringing this planet close to the big boom.

Prometheus
11-04-2008, 06:47 PM
Hope you're feeling better Swede. I phoned in today. I'm a real political junkie and am taking turns watching at the polls. I'll probably be up all night watching the returns. Thank God we only do this once every four years. I couldn't survive if it was an annual occurrence.

PeopleSmoks
11-04-2008, 09:31 PM
Hey guys! swede, I also hope you find your energy. You two have certainly covered quite a bit since my last post. I know that Prometheus is relatively new to the prior discussions held concerning God, the universe and that which lies beyond. It's such a touchy subject to many, but has been so cordially debated here that I wish everyone could read these pages.
quote:My potential 'absolutes' are beyond the universe and its creator; you seek your answers and/or experiences inside or with the universe and its creator. I seek it outside. But the methods for finding and experiencing them (the absolutes) are similar to yours and what you have described concerning orthodoxy.This is a point where swede and I have differed in opinion from the beginning. As I find my personal comfort beyond the confines of organized religions, I also seek answers beyond what science can provide.

My ultimate question to EVERYTHING is very simple, but has no truly satisfactory answer except to believe in a God of some form. For the scientists, I ask what caused "The Big Bang"? Where did matter, anti-matter, dark-matter, all the elements, etc come from???

The next question, and the really BIG mystery is to assume the existense of a God, but where the heck did he, she or it come from in the first place??????? What is the real beginning of EVERYTHING??? To me, this is the greatest dilema I face concerning faith/ science.

Prometheus, you having a form of religious beliefs, should also remember that God can be a vengful son of a gun. Turn the other cheek, but push come to shove, smiting does work quite nicely.



Train returns

swede
11-05-2008, 01:27 AM
Cit PeopleS:

"The next question, and the really BIG mystery is to assume the existense of a God, but where the heck did he, she or it come from in the first place??????? What is the real beginning of EVERYTHING??? To me, this is the greatest dilema I face concerning faith/ science."

Both science AND at least some religions say, that beyond big bang causality ('cause and effect') as we know and experience it, doesn't exist as it does inside the universe. Space, time, matter, energy were created by the banging. Everything we know, and the way we come to know it it, isn't valid outside the universal existence.
To talk about 'beginnings' are just so many words. It has no meaning out there.

So to talk about who or what was before the universe and its creator is more a question of human perception, psychology and epistomology, than a usual question of logic.

To find answers, we (as humans) have to change our 'perception' at a deep level to adapt to a new way of experiencing existence.

A small allegory. Some hundred years ago two of your forefathers were taken to London, so to speak directly from the bush, and were exposed to the socalled blessings of technological society. They died from culture shock.

To change from normal mundane life into the experience, 'understanding' and/or perception of transcendence requires some preliminary training to accept and even survive this 'cultural' shock the mundane person has, when s/he tries to approach the 'divine dimension'.

Ofcourse I can't speak for Prometheus, but my own opinion is, that he and I share this starting attitude, and the methods to adapt. What we expect to meet in the end differs, but for me that's an open question for me.

Cit:

"Prometheus, you having a form of religious beliefs, should also remember that God can be a vengful son of a gun. Turn the other cheek, but push come to shove, smiting does work quite nicely."

This is why I (Swede) am a kind of gnostic and not a christian. A 'good' creator, making a universe filled with 'beeb'. I don't buy that one. I believe in a creator, but I consider him/her/it insane.

Prometheus
11-05-2008, 01:48 PM
quote:Originally posted by swede

"Prometheus, you having a form of religious beliefs, should also remember that God can be a vengful son of a gun. Turn the other cheek, but push come to shove, smiting does work quite nicely."

This is why I (Swede) am a kind of gnostic and not a christian. A 'good' creator, making a universe filled with 'beeb'. I don't buy that one. I believe in a creator, but I consider him/her/it insane.


I think you've already answered this question Swede:


quote:Originally posted by swede
Gurdjieff said something like your priest about challenges being a blessing. He called it 'friction' and said it was one of the best ways to acchieve higher awareness.
Agent Smith explained this need for friction so eloquently in the Matrix:
quote:From "The Matrix" (1999)


Did you know that the first Matrix was designed to be a perfect human world? Where none suffered, where everyone would be happy. It was a disaster. No one would accept the program. Entire crops were lost. Some believed we lacked the programming language to describe your perfect world. But I believe that, as a species, human beings define their reality through suffering and misery. The perfect world was a dream that your primitive cerebrum kept trying to wake up from. Which is why the Matrix was redesigned to this: the peak of your civilization.
It's not that God is insane, it's that he is divine and we are not. Our mortal brains cannot grasp the infinite, the timeless, the eternal. It's not a slap against us, we just aren't wired that way. I understand the need to define God, but I also recognize the ultimate futility of the exercise.

swede
11-05-2008, 02:20 PM
Forget about tantric sex for the moment, I switch to my role as your friendly neighbourhood conspiracy theorist.


And from this perspective, I can only agree with Prometheus' former speculations about the expected lifetime of Obama.
The central question now is, whether he'll be able to clean up in the mess of the state inside the state, the 'Grey cabinet' behind Bush and other political leaders.


In the true tradition of conspiracy theorists, paranoia plays a role in my worldview, and as I have formerly suggested, Sweden has been used as an experiment in social engineering, a kind of political 'rat in the labyrinth' thing. Our present government has this late summer, Bush-supported, made a palace revolution, bypassing our constitution by establishing the most aggressive surveillance systen in the western world.


So it's not surprising, that our local state-dominated radio has already started on a tentative and very subtle anti-Obama campaign. If you listen with a suitable amount of paranoia, there is an element of desperation in the political analysis being presented here.


Obama is NOT to succeed according to the hawks everywhere.


We'll see a lot more of that in the near future. Not only in Sweden.

PeopleSmoks
11-05-2008, 08:44 PM
Hey guys! As I try to look at the concept of where everything began, I find myself limited by my perceptions of what time, space, dimension, begin and end are, by the definitions that have been given to all of us by someone else.

We have always been told that there is a beginning and an end to everything, despite the term infinity. I think that trying to really comprehend the totality of infinity is my greatest stumbling block, but at the same time, this also makes the case for some form of divinity.

As science tells us that everything came from the "Big Bang", I still find myself questioning what cause this bang? If there was NOTHING, what made the bang, and where did all the elements, both known and those yet unknown, come from?

To me, by the standard set by science of cause and affect, something had to 'cause' the bang...??? The expression, "Sh!t happens", isn't something I've ever read in any scientific literature.

An interesting theory that I read is that ours is not the first universe, nor will it be the last. The theory is that the universe's energy is finite and that the expansion is limited in much the same way a star's life is limited. The universe came from the "Big Bang", continues to expand until it's energy is expended and then will begin to collapse back in on itself until everythingreaches the brink of non-existense and it goes BANG again and the whole process starts over.

This theory lends itself to your beliefs, swede. If you combine this with infinitum, then what we perceive as creation becomes nothing more than a continuos cycle without beginning or end.

I realize that infinity is the real question and the difficulty of my mind, and probably many others, to comprehend what it really is. This, allows for the existense of a God, and it also allows for pure science. Hey, Steven Hawking, put that in your pipe and toke it!!!

Train returns

PeopleSmoks
11-05-2008, 11:53 PM
My congratulations to all those who so blindly looked for "change" that they have elected a man as the next President of the US who's political views are more closely aligned to those of Karl Marx than those of even Vladimir Putin!

As I brace myself for the biggest tax increase since Willy Clinton p!ssed on all of us and told us it was raining with the biggest tax hike in US history, I wonder how many Americans will find their jobs being shipped overseas where the tax burden is so much cheaper? I'm sure my take home pay is going to be raped!!! I'm ready to move to Ukraine!!! At least those people can recognize a socialist when he steps up on the stump.

If Barrack wants to "share the wealth", maybe he should start by coughing up some of the 4+ million he raked in last year to the people who bought into his lip service???

As Democrats beat the drum about the rich Republicans over and over, being out of touch, I ask that just one member of the Democratic party in Congress show me that he or she is worth less than $1 million cash! I say it can't be done!!! But, they represent the 'common' man???

So, as I prepare to watch my take home pay shrink over the next two years, I take solice in knowing that after Obama sends this country into a tax and spend a trillion nightmare that people will wake up and bring in a Republican Congress like they did after two years of Willy C.

People seem to forget that he had a Democratic Congress, just as Obama does now, and didn't pass health care or anything else that was important either. I wonder if Obama will pull the same crap and pawn health care off on his wife like Willy did?

Hopefully, he won't start closing all of our military bases again! Look, in the sky... it's a bird... it's a plane... yup, it's a plane and it's heading for... Too bad the democrats closed the nearest A.F.B.

Train returns

swede
11-06-2008, 02:05 PM
Cit PeopleS:

"An interesting theory that I read is that ours is not the first universe, nor will it be the last. The theory is that the universe's energy is finite and that the expansion is limited in much the same way a star's life is limited."

As far I as remember, it was Hawkins, who proposed a rather specialised variety of this. He later took it back.

In general I can understand your uncertainty about causality. As human beings everything in us, from the most down-to-earth to the most (until recently, when Quantum physics really had its breakthrough) abstract, rests on causality. Part of the theological strive, even mystical union with 'god' or nirvana, contain a big element of changing our perception-points. Our fundamental way of percieving life needs a change to grasp the beyond big bang non-causality.

Cit:

"I'm ready to move to Ukraine!!! At least those people can recognize a socialist when he steps up on the stump."

My UA 'fianc?e' is a lecturer in micro-economy at a university, so she ought to know, what she was talking about. She told me about UA economics.

The UA tax system is as prohibitive as the swedish (and that says quite a lot), and the possibilities for private enterprising even more bureaucratically and taxation hindered than here. It's so bad in UA, that even in areas of business, where they have all the local resources for selfsupply and production, almost no enterprising exists. Apart from producing rather sickly looking vegetables, vodka, beer and sweet champagne a considerable amount of UA business is based on import, where most of the prices in the end, in real money (not considered from available income) are up to twice the price in a western country for the same product.

So if you're looking for a liberal, economic paradise, where the small, private enterpriser can make a life, don't look at UA.

When it comes to using the taxpayers money, investing in military projects is definitely more costly and non-productive than any support of dental, medical or social care, ever suggested anywhere.

The choice between these alternatives two is in the end ofcourse something a nation through elections must decide on.

Prometheus
11-06-2008, 02:27 PM
Honestly, Obama is a centrist. In Europe he'd be considered a conservative.

I guess it is a question of guns or butter PeopleS.

The Pentagon's 2009 budget is $515.4 billion. Annual military spending, when adjusted for inflation, has reached its highest level since World War II. Overall since coming to office, the Bush administration has increased baseline military spending by 30 percent.

Maybe you are from a military family and this sounds like a good use of scarce resources. I for one think the rest of the world, including Iraq, needs to pay for their own defense, not the American taxpayer.

We have $700 trillion in unfunded mandates on the books right now, when you include Social Security and Medicare. That is $480,000 for each household in America. I can't afford that bill, can you?

We have a crumbling infrastructure, inequitable access to healthcare, and we are growing a generation of students who can't read and can't afford college. 70% of America's economy is based on consumption of domestic goods and services. We have a fraction of the industrial output of a generation ago.

So Obama's got his work cut out for him. Hawks like Bush got us in this mess PeopleS, so I respectfully agree to disagree. Bush gave you a $600 "stimulus" check this year (I did not qualify, because a six figure income makes me "rich" ha!), can your loyalty be bought so cheaply?

swede
11-06-2008, 04:11 PM
Risking the otherwise peaceful exchange on this thread, I must agree with Prometheus, though I would like to base my arguments more on personal humanitarian grounds. Strange as it may sound, I am a kind of 'hawk' on the local political scale; I even had a short politically active period in my life, representing a party which was accused of racism etc., and my attitude is definitely not coming from sympathy of communism or fundamentalist islam.


But I do not vote with my wallet.


PeopleS, you have formerly brought up the american help to Europe in the second world war as an argument for american politics, responsibility and general morals. And as I remember it, you then manifested a strong patriotic defense for US, where you got emotional about my mentioning the sinking popularity US has in both Europe and Asia, even amongst our conservatives. Like it or not, that's the truth.


But I'm sad to say, US now looks the new bully in the global political sandbox, and the then fundamental politics of the third reich, 'lebensraum', is resembling the present selfrighteous world-policing Bush has demonstrated. There's a kind of almost desparate or arrogant messianic aspect in it.


We're no even talking about the idea of 'attack is the best defense'; from my end of looking at it, it's more like a megalomaniac crusade for ......what? The american dream? Hollowed-out democratic principles defended by fascistic methods? Ot just the private war of some bible-belters and moneymongers?


Considering my usual moderate language, my indignation can be seen, when I say, that the CIA, NSA or whatever messing with internal swedish politics REALLY pissed me off. The bad smell from this lingers in my nostrils, and makes the 'Jason Bourne' movies almost like documentaries instead of fiction.

Prometheus
11-07-2008, 02:01 PM
I'm not ganging up on PeopleS swede, I just don't understand his hatred of "Slick Willie." The Clinton years were the longest sustained period of economic growth in American history. Right wingers get so self-righteous about him having a blow job in the Oval Office, but when you ask about GOP senators having a "wide stance" in public restrooms, or GOP reps sending nude photos to House pages, they act like its unfair comment on the "family values" party of "REAL America" (don't even get me started on that one).

The problem is the GOP stole the 2000 election, and lied their way to annother victory in 2004. "Swift boating" became a part of the lexicon of dirty politics. So the Rovites of the world decided the American public really is as STUPID as they've treated us, and they launched a former beauty queen from Alaska (it's like a whole 'nuther country, right next to Russia, have you heard?) and ask us to put her a heartbeat away from the Presidency.

The demographic tide in America is turning, but we haven't heard the last of the money grubbers. They come out in droves every four years with some new brand of snake oil to sell to an unsuspecting public.

We need to change the way that government and history are taught in our schools. Insist that our children think for themselves, form their own opinions concerning what consitutes a "great country," and whether or not "manifest destiny" is a foolish pipe dream. I'd like to see everyone be required to spend a year abroad on a service project in a so-called third world country, just so Americans will realize they aren't so special, and we have many things in common with people in Zimbabwe, but now I sound foolish. Time for some KFC and a quick trip to Wal-Mart.

PeopleSmoks
11-07-2008, 10:49 PM
Hey guys! Just to make one thing perfectly clear, aside from making derogatory comments about my mother, in which case I will hunt you down and perform acts of brutality on you that would leave Hitler speechless, you can't p!ss me off or offend me. We exchange ideas and opinions here... simple as that.:)

swede, I suppose it's more than possible that Hawking originally came up with the theory of the universe continually going "BANG", expanding, then collapsing in on itself to near nothingness, and then going "BANG" again. I often try to take in a general concept and information, but admittedly don't remember all the details.

I personally find it to be a very interesting concept which allows for both a God and no God scenario. The only people who might have a problem with the "infinity theory" would be those who take the Bible literally, word for word and not as I see it, a great story wrapped in multiple metaphor, as the book quotes God as saying he/she/it is the alpha and the omega. The infinity theory does really have a beginning or end. Still, one could appease the biblical scolars by saying that God is the beginning and the end of our existense???

As for my moving to Ukraine, why not? All an enterprising WM needs to succeed is a decent knowledge of Russian or an accomplice, a computer, and a few photos of pretty girls![}:)]

Prometheus, I have nothing against Willy C. getting a fat chick to suck his Willy Jr in the Oval Office. It's the lying, and the fact that he cheated on his wife!!! Democrat or Republican, I don't excuse any millionaire politician from ANY indescretion they commit, especial while in office, and even more so if they try p!ssing on my leg and then tell me it's raining!!!

As for being a great president, nothing Clinton did had any real positive effect on this country's economy. It's a cycle that will continue tomorrow, just as it has for decades. If anything, Clintons policies contributed to our current problems, just as Coolidge's economics brought down the house during Hoover's admin.


The Roaring Twenties: 1920?1929

?
The Stock Market Crash of 1929

?
The prosperity of the 1920s finally ended when the ?bull market? suddenly showed the strain of overvaluation in the fall of 1929. The value of the stock market had more than quadrupled during the 1920s primarily because Americans had purchased stock ?on margin? by using the future earnings from their investments to buy even more stock. Even though buying stock on margin grossly distorted the real value of the investments, most people naively assumed the market would continue to climb. Therefore, they funded their lavish lifestyles on credit.
When the market buckled and stock prices began to slip, brokers made ?margin calls? requesting investors to pay off the debts owed on stock purchased on margin. Unfortunately, most people didn?t have the cash to pay back the brokers. Instead, they tried to sell all their investments quickly to come up with the extra money. The surge in stock dumping eventually caused the most catastrophic market crash in American history on Black Tuesday: October 29, 1929. In spite of attempts by major investors to bolster the rapidly declining market, Black Tuesday marked the beginning of the rapid economic collapse known as the Great Depression.

This is a very similar "feel good" economy that the country saw under Clinton. Intrest rates dropped drastically to promote consumer spending, yet we were still encouraged to save, bank savings became a joke, or invest in our future. The investments were housing, and the stock market which grew out of control under Clinton. Granted, the Bush administration didn't see what was coming either, because he was a tad bit too busy with his vendetta against Saddam Hussein, and so went with the program until it fell apart.

As for the $600 from George, I hope you hid it and stuffed it in your mattress, because Barrack is going to be asking for it back! The biggest mistake he will make is simply trying to do too much. And as I say, wait until that first big tax hike!!! OUCH! There goes another company setting up in Pakistan!!!

Have you noticed that gas prices have dropped almost to $2 per gallon in the past month or so??? Do you give Bush credit for his economic savy and for getting the oil companies to lower prices? Everyone sure blamed him when prices went up over $4 per gallon!!![B)][V] It's a double edge sword my friend. Bush's policies had no more to do with gas prices coming down than they did with prices go up.

No guys, I'm not from a millitary family so to speak, although several members of my family have served. I simply believe in a strong national defense and that's all. I sincerely hope that Obama can figure out a way to leave Afghanistan and Iraq without leaving it to the bad guys to take back. I wish him luck. I personally love our 12 Nimitz class carriers full of FA-18s!!! I think they should be parked along the shore line daring anyone to come HERE! I've also said before that I would also support closing our borders completely to imigration except for political refugees facing death, in order to take care of our own first for a few years, and then returning to take care of the rest of the world later.

But, like I say, before we start talking about "sharing the wealth", I'd like to see those multi-millionaires who are selling that bit of snake oil to spread some of their persoal wealth around... It won't happen!:(






Train returns

Prometheus
11-07-2008, 11:04 PM
Actually, I think $4 a gallon got us $2 a gallon. Demand plummetted as forclosures rose, unemployment spiked, and people watched their lifetime savings in 401(k) accounts disappear overnight. Who can fill up a Hummer when your life is in the crapper? So I guess Bush's "sound" policies which placed the world's economy in the ditch really did have some good affects after all. I can now afford enough gas to drive downtown to pick up my unemployment check.

PeopleSmoks
11-07-2008, 11:28 PM
I guess personal experiences have a lot to do with one's perception. I was unemployed twice because the companies I worked for went bankrupt, and untimately lost my house to foreclosure. Bill Clinton was President when all this happened.

During the past four years, my income has gone up nearly 50%!!! Yes, 50%, that's not a typo!!! I have money in the bank, and my 401k is doing quite nicely. Sadly, with the financial beating I suffered during the Clinton years, I will never be able to by a house again unless I pay cash. But, at least now, I know I can afford one where as 10 or 12 years ago... Hahaha on me!:(

Train returns

Prometheus
11-08-2008, 09:49 AM
quote:Originally posted by PeopleSmoks

I guess personal experiences have a lot to do with one's perception. I was unemployed twice because the companies I worked for went bankrupt, and untimately lost my house to foreclosure. Bill Clinton was President when all this happened.

During the past four years, my income has gone up nearly 50%!!! Yes, 50%, that's not a typo!!! I have money in the bank, and my 401k is doing quite nicely. Sadly, with the financial beating I suffered during the Clinton years, I will never be able to by a house again unless I pay cash. But, at least now, I know I can afford one where as 10 or 12 years ago... Hahaha on me!:(

Train returns


Well the late Tip O'Neill said it best, "All politics are local." My profession tends to move in opposite directions with the fortunes of the GOP. I lost two jobs, had a bankruptcy, and fought off a foreclosure during the latest Bush regime. I'm no fan. Not sure I would have survived eight years of McCain/Palin.

PeopleSmoks
11-08-2008, 01:46 PM
Hey Prometheus! Not to beat a dead horse, but a point of interest which has to do with the socio-political habits of the truely impoverished, is the seemingly blind devotion they hold to the promises of the Democratic party. http://www.cappersmall.com/forums/showthread.php?t=300818. This link shows the apparent inability of these poor people to effect any real change within the cities they live, but a tendency to cling to the same failed politics they have become accustomed to.

Living in south Jersey, I have a front row seat to two of the worst cities in the US, both of which are controlled by the Democratic party. Camden, NJ is a sh!t hole, and that's being polite. I will admit that the Democrats here are among the most corrupt individuals found anywhere in any political party. Nepotism, palm greasing and back room deals are simply the way business is done. I don't group all Democrats in with this abhor able group, but being what I see locally, they don't leave me with favorable thoughts of the party.

Philadelphia is the cradle of liberty, home of the World Series champs and the first capital of the US!!! It's also the most likely place in the country to be killed. A person might be safer dressing up as Uncle Sam and go door to door in Kabul, Afghanistan declaring that the taliban sucks than he is sitting in his livingroom watching TV during a shoot out between local drug dealers in West Philly! Philly is also a Democratic strong hold filled with some of the poorest Americans. Forget Jeweler's Row or Society Hill.

Mayor Michael Nutter is currently in the process of cutting back fire and police services. I'm sorry, but regardless of finances, those are two things you never cut back on, especially if those are two of the things you promised to increase during your campaign! Bad form for Mikey!!![V]

Police are the local equivalent to a strong national military. Once order and security for the populous have been established, then it is possible to build the infrastructure. Who wants to open a business in a city where you may be robbed, murdered or have your store burned to the ground?

But, which comes first, the chicken or the egg? Are other cities affluent because of their Republican mayors, or do they have Republican mayors because of the affluence?

It should be noted that most of the cities on the above link list have been controlled by the Democrats for decades, so the decline into poverty is something that occured while they were in office. So, where's the change?[B)]

Train returns

swede
11-09-2008, 05:28 AM
Democracy is like a vegetable garden. It needs to be weeded ever so often.

PeopleSmoks
11-09-2008, 12:08 PM
Hey guys! Politics can be a very passionate thing for many. It's clear that general party ideals appeal to different individuals in different ways. Regardless of Prometheus or my political philosophies, it does need to be realized that on a national level, Americans in general don't seem to vote for ideals, but rather the promise of "change", because of disatisfaction with a current administration. I see this as a relatively modern phenom which became evident in 1976, with the election of Jimmy Carter.

Richard Nixon wasn't a bad President. His greatest legacy should be that he set the fall of the USSR in motion by openning relations with China. Despite their communist policies, China wasn't particularly a supporter of the SU. Although, it wasn't a full alliance, friendly relations with China caused a bit of concern in Moscow since now, confrontation with the US may increase the likelyhood that China would join in against the SU for their own gains.

Unfortunately, Nixon will always be best remembered for the Vietnam War, which many people seem to forget he inheritted, and the whole Watergate scandal. Gerald Ford was a good man and a savy politician. His service to the US was similar to John McCain's in a number of ways. He would have been a good president, but was over-shadowed by Nixon and the country's distaste for Nixon overflowed to Ford in 1976.

Carter was a genuine "nice guy"... and still is. This country could use a man like him, but not as President. As a negotiator, he has magic, but the depletion of the military under his admin was horrifying! In steps Reagan. His restoration of American pride saved this country. The deficits he created are a problem, but we desperately needed to rebuild or military. Also, like it or not, he did put the breaks on double digit inflation.

George Sr. inherited the benefits of Reagan's popularity, but a sudden downward turn in the economy and the tax increase he set forth, cancelled his popularity after the first Gulf War. The economy was caught up in a post war freefall similar to that after Vietnam finally ended. Also, some of the growth during the Reagan years proved unsustainable and a recession was inevitable, just as it is now, after the unsustainable growth under Clinton and the first part of the Bush Jr years.

It might have been possible for Gore to have won the presidency, despite the fact that he's possibly THE most boring man on earth, had it not been for the multiple Clinton scandals. I think that Whitewater and Enron caused a bigger stir than Willy getting a fat chick to... well, we all know what happened. Bush used these scandals to his advantage by asscociating Gore with Clinton.

So, we saw this recent election become more Obama vs Bush than Obama vs McCain, especially in the last couple of months, where Obama went on a heavy attack against McCain by making him into a Bush Republican. I do blame McCain for not reacting sooner. I also hope to see the votes he got from women. I think the Sara Palin gambit was a failure in grabbing the Hillary vote. He really needed an attack dog in the way Obama used Biden, which is the more traditional role of the VP candidates.

I hope Obama is able to focus on something and get it done without screwing up the works by trying to do too much. It will be a very interesting first twoo years. If he screws up, he'll surely find himself dealing with a Republican Congress for the remainder of his term, and then very little will get done.



Train returns

PeopleSmoks
11-09-2008, 01:32 PM
Hey guys! I'm watching The Military Channel on TV. I just saw something that is very scary!!! At least, it should be scary to all the bad guys. Apparently, the US military is developing a tailless, carrier based, fighter size, stealth bomber. It looks like a small B-2 bomber and has the same stealth characteristics.

The plane has a 4500lb bomb payload and mid-air refueling capability. Even though it's being designed for the Navy and to land on a carrier, this beast will NEVER have to land once airborn! Screw the pilot becoming fatigued. This thing is also a UAV!!!

The X-47B looks like the future is here... at least it will be around 2011, which is when deployment is tenatively scheduled.

Now, if the military would start figuring out how to take soldiers out of the tanks and other places where our kids are really in harms way!!! Although, personell sized robots are constantly in development, being a sci fi buff, I start thinking about the movie "Terminator". AI is real kids. They actually have a computer that "thinks" beyond it's base program. Fortunately, it only likes to play chess and hasn't develpoed a taste for world domination yet!

Now, a truley twisted down side to taking troops out of planes, tanks, etc... There will be another couple hundred thousand people looking for "real" jobs in the private sector!!!

Train returns

Prometheus
11-10-2008, 01:19 PM
quote:Originally posted by swede

Democracy is like a vegetable garden. It needs to be weeded ever so often.


Marx said that "religion is the opiate of the masses." The same can be said of democracy. A form of mass delusion. We like to blame urban decay on the mayor, or the current recession on the president, but in truth there are many factors all working at the same time. Chaos theory is probably a more appropriate analogy.

What we do know about chaos theory is that it must be "sensitive to initial conditions." This is where leadership comes into play. If the primary dynamic of the leadership model is favortism of the wealthy, war mongering, and disenfranchisement of the masses, the ultimate result will be what we saw during King George II's reign. He did not cause it to happen, per se, but he created the conditions that permitted it to happen. Butterfly effect to the tenth power.

I think Obama's election will put a whole new paradigm into play. It will be interesting to see what we are looking at in four years. Good or bad, he won't bear the burden of causing it, rather his legacy will be setting into play the conditions that allowed it to happen.

Prometheus
11-10-2008, 04:20 PM
We interrupt this psychobabbling for N.E.R.T.S. in progress!!!

Sorry guys, but if we can't have a good round of NERTS to send off PeopleSmoks, what in the world is this forum coming to???

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And we conclude with this subtle little bit of Freudian suggestion...

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"I never met an Olga I didn't like." -- Will Rogers

"I may not be a smart man, Jenny, but I know what N.E.R.T.S. are!" -- Forrest Gump

"A chicken in every pot, and an Olga in every bedroom!" -- Herbert Hoover

Prometheus
11-10-2008, 07:38 PM
Only Olgas. PeopleSmoks, let's start the Olga Network "YOUR 24 HOUR OLGA NEWS SOURCE... ALL OLGA'S, ALL THE TIME!"

In honor of PeopleSmoks latest Olga adventure, I bring you this album of FSU hotties, ALL of whom are named (drum roll) OLGA!!!

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Mondays at the office... better get back to work.

PeopleSmoks
11-10-2008, 09:48 PM
Hey Prometheus! My dad is a blind faith Democrat through and through, but even he didn't know what to say when I made mention of the political histories of our nations poorest cities.

This form of group poverty is, in part, the result of failed socialistic programs which no one is willing to admit don't work as planned. I don't know when, or exactly how it all started, but judging from stories told to me by my parents and grandparents, I have a clue as to when the city of Camden NJ started down that slippery slope.

In the 40s and 50s, Camden was a thriving city. Jobs, stores, the place to go!!! It seems that sometime in the 60s and 70s that the city went into the dumpster. Kennedy/ Johnson or Nixon years, I would need to do more research about it, but that's not my real point this time around.

The cities were where the jobs were, so that's where people moved to live. Somewhere during these years, the 60s and 70s, manufacturing jobs disappeared from Camden, as they did in many other industrial cities, but the people were still there and now jobless. Here comes Uncle Sam to the rescue!

Unemployment comp is a good thing, unless the person receiving it gets lazy. Okay, you live in a city, and can't find a job... If you live in a place with no water and you're thirsty, do you stay there until you die of dehydration?

Unemployment eventually runs out. Now we have welfare. This was one of the most horrifically abused social programs ever, especially before computer case tracking.

The thing is that Democrats always promise to take care of the needy. But, sometimes, this "free" cash creates the lazy... and they all flock to the places where they can find cheap, subsidized housing, and a bi-weekly check... the cities.

This is an unfortunate problem that has been going on with abhorant abuse so entwined with real need that it has become impossible to separate the two. I hope Barrack can find an answer to this type of problem, because simply "spreading the wealth" won't fix a mess like this!

Train returns

Prometheus
11-10-2008, 10:16 PM
Agreed. I have no fantasies that you can spend your way out of social decay, ignorance, teen pregnancy, crime, etc. I haven't spent a lot of time in NJ, but I have heard the horror stories.

I'm just going back to being a nipples man. All this psychobabbling has given me a hangover. I was amazed at how wrung out I felt after the election. I don't know how Keith Olbermann does it. I would have gone on vacation.

So I'm focusing my attention on the Olgas and leaving the problem solving to the new batch of leaders we just elected.

Swede feel free to chime in on tantric sex any time now...

PeopleSmoks
11-10-2008, 11:01 PM
Prometheus, I like your links, but I think I need to cover N.E.R.T.S. 101, just one more time. The literal meaning of this particular acronym is, N = nipple, E = erection, R = right, T = through (the), S = shirt![:p] Although your FSU beauties have lovely jiggly-wigglys, the new "Bond girl", who just so happens to be a real life Olga, has one spectacular set of N.E.R.T.S.!!!!!!!!!!!! Check 'em out!!![:0][:p][:0][:p][:0][:p]:D[8D] http://www.sillyhooker.com/img/Olga-Kurylenko/Olga-Kurylenko-1 Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!! The water must be cold!;) Now, I present what may be the most famous pair of N.E.R.T.S. known to late 1970s pubescent males in the US, and the N.E.R.T.S. that made me a man... or at least a normal pubescent American male with sticky sheets[:0] I'm sure you will remember the N.E.R.T.S. that started it all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![:p][:p][:p][:p][:p][:p][:p][:p][:p][:p][:p] http://bugehoobs.com/img/upload/cache/480x668_11555103874816262b22684.jpg:D Now if you will excuse me, I seem to be suffering from a case of localized high blood pressure that I need to "work out", so to speak![:o)] Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... the memories!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Train returns

Prometheus
11-11-2008, 04:16 AM
That Farrah poster hung above my bed in high school PeopleS. The amount of teen ejaculate it mustered has got to be right up there near the top with this one of Cheryl Tiegs... http://www.pmpnetwork.com/photos5/CherylTiegs2.jpg, the likes of which would not be seen for another 20 years until Heidi Klum set a new standard of excellence for NERTS... http://cottonandsand.com/sandandcotton/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/heidi-klum.jpg

So if you are a purist NERTS fan, I was using the term in its more generic "boobage" sense (much to swede's dismay), I will give you these purist celebrity NERTS examples:

http://www.lazygirls.info/people/scarlett_johansson/scarlett_johansson_girl_with_a_pearl_earring_los_a ngeles_premiere_dec_10_2003y_mAoYpbb.sized.jpg

http://www.soredick.com/crissy/erect-nipples.jpg

http://cottonandsand.com/sandandcotton/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/drew-barrymore.jpg

http://www.gurlicious.com/images/jessica_alba_nipples.jpg

http://www.drunkenstepfather.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/katebeckinsale_nipples.jpg

http://cottonandsand.com/sandandcotton/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/christina-applegate.jpg

http://www.celebritynipples.net/wp-content/christina_ricci_nipples_hard.jpg

http://www.nudeceleblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/hilary-duff-pokies.jpg

http://www.pokiepig.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/cameron-diaz-pokie-nipple.jpg

http://www.jiyh.com/photos/galleries/jessica-simpson-pokies-set-2/jessica-simpson-014.jpg

http://www.pokiepig.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/mandy_moore_puffy_pokies.jpg

http://www.deansplanet.com/images/celebs/broads/kirsten_dunst/dunst_pokies.jpg

http://dirtynipslips.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/mischa-barton-pokies.jpg

http://cottonandsand.com/sandandcotton/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/jennifer-aniston.jpg

http://cottonandsand.com/sandandcotton/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/naomi-watts.jpg

http://www.pokiepig.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/britney_spears_pokies.jpg



Now, I know I've got a moist towelette around here somewhere...

PeopleSmoks
11-11-2008, 08:32 PM
Now thems some spectacular N.E.R.T.S.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes Prometheus, when it comes to N.E.R.T.S., I am a purist. But, as I click through all of these links, I can only think to myself, "Gee, Prometheus sure has a lot of time on his hands... hope you find a moist towelette soon!"[:0]

Train returns

Prometheus
11-12-2008, 03:11 AM
<basking in adulation> =^)

INDEED THEY ARE!

PeopleSmoks
11-12-2008, 12:12 PM
Hey guys! Well, it's getting close to that time. I'm still rushing around thinking that there MUST be something I've forgotten to do before I leave!!! My flight leaves at 2:45pm local time.

At this point, it appears that my sweet Olya is the only girl who is looking forward to seeing me in Lugansk, which is okay with me. Several other girls had expressed their interest, but have stopped writing in the past week or so. One girl suddenly is going to Kiev this weekend, and another is going to visit her family. Let's face it, these things are expected from website models who are merely a series of photos and a ghost writer.

I do have reserved excitement about my Olga though. Still, I won't allow myself to be disappointed over any mishaps, or the fact that she may turn out to be nothing more than a pro-dater. Alex and I have plans to hit the discos, so we'll see how that goes too.[:p]

I bet you guys the biker gets stopped at the airport for a "random" search when he gets home again!!! Afterall, guys that look like me aren't supposed to be able to afford stuff like vacations and trips overseas![V]


Train returns

Prometheus
11-12-2008, 12:59 PM
PeopleSmoks,

Vaya con Dios amigo. Wish you good luck, good times, friendship with benefits, and some stories you'll never forget. May all your lovers be Olgas.

Prometheus.

Prometheus
11-15-2008, 08:50 PM
PeopleS,

Yes we are dying to hear how it is going!

:)

P