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PeopleSmoks
11-16-2008, 07:46 PM
Hey guys! Olya is a very sweet girl. 3 dates in three days, but the cost of the interpreter is killing me. Not sure how this will work out, but we have another date tomorrow.

I am a little unsure because Olga seems a bit hesitant about coming to the US when I asked her. We will see what happens next. I catch you guys later.[8D]

Train returns

Prometheus
11-16-2008, 08:16 PM
quote:Originally posted by PeopleSmoks

Hey guys! Olya is a very sweet girl. 3 dates in three days, but the cost of the interpreter is killing me. Not sure how this will work out, but we have another date tomorrow.

I am a little unsure because Olga seems a bit hesitant about coming to the US when I asked her. We will see what happens next. I catch you guys later.[8D]

Train returns


Suggest you try the "international language which requires no interpreter." :) GOOD LUCK!

PeopleSmoks
11-19-2008, 11:48 AM
Hey guys! Went to a disco last night. Not adjusting to local time has its advantages. At 4 am, I was still goining like the energizer bunny! I even danced with a cute girl. I cant remember her name though.:D Oh well! I hope to see Olga tonight. We will see?

Train returns

Prometheus
11-20-2008, 12:42 AM
Details, details... that's what we want.

I'm in Mexico and going out tonight, so who knows maybe I'll have some hot Latina stories for you.[8D]

PeopleSmoks
11-21-2008, 10:39 AM
Privet guys! Or should I say Ola!?! Well, Olga is a great girl. I think I would like for things to continue. We have gone out almost every night. I wanted to hit a disco with her, but she does happen to have a job, so I dont want to cause her any trouble getting up in the mornings. Tonight is my last day/night. She asked if I could stay longer! I wish I could. I am already thinking about returning in the summer? Her birthday is in June.

Well, gotta go. Prometheus, good luck in Mexico with the chickas![8D]

Train returns

PeopleSmoks
11-23-2008, 03:49 PM
Hey guys! I'm back!!!:D It was an interesting trip. Olga seems to be a very reserved girl? She wasn't very adventurous and didn't want to go to clubs or discos? Lots of walks and dinner dates. Some of the restaurants were a bit pricey!

I'm not sure what will come from our meeting. I got some mixed signals from her. I guess that the fact that I haven't really had many good experiences with FSUWs leaves me to always consider the worst as a possibility?

A thought that has crossed my mind is a new angle on the pro-dater. I hope I'm wrong about Olga, but this IS something that makes a lot of sense considering the expense of Olga's interpreter...

SCENARIO: Pretty girl posts profile ad on a known website stating she has poor English and starts communication with WM. WM arranges face to face meeting, naturally agreeing to pay for a translator of the lady's choice, as he wants her to feel comfortable. Dates are at expensive restaurants, but never much more than that. Maybe even a visit to a local shopping mall? or two??? After the date, the WM gets a goodnight kiss from the girl, and pays the translator for her services. Pretty girl and translator split the translation fee and the WM goes on his merry way thinking he has a shot?[B)]

I guess that I've seen so much bad that I now look for it?[V]

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Prometheus
11-24-2008, 05:38 AM
quote:[i]After the date, the WM gets a goodnight kiss from the girl, and pays the translator for her services. Pretty girl and translator split the translation fee and the WM goes on his merry way thinking he has a shot?[B)]

I guess that I've seen so much bad that I now look for it?[V]



Yes... and yes. [V] My Mexico experience was a lot of fun, but my boca chica ended up being a 25 year old Joel Osteen follower. Arrrrrgggghhhh. Either trait alone would be difficult. Together was a deal buster. So she's 22 years my junior and very religious. I was the only fellow on the trip that did not get laid. Smoks let's just round up a couple of tall boys and some good old Jersey lap dances. I'll buy.

PeopleSmoks
11-24-2008, 10:50 PM
quote:I was the only fellow on the trip that did not get laid. No, you're the only guy that admitted he din't get laid.:D

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Prometheus
11-25-2008, 07:52 AM
Well at least Xochti is texting me already about "next time." <sigh>. People, I just want a world class Olga ready to be my submissive little house toy with no questions asked and few demands. Such a woman has not been invented yet. I still like the idea of a few good scientists and some test tubes...

PeopleSmoks
11-25-2008, 09:20 PM
quote:People, I just want a world class Olga ready to be my submissive little house toy with no questions asked and few demands. Such a woman has not been invented yet.Ever see "The Stepford Wives"? I mean the original, not the stupid and poorly done remake. Be very careful what you ask for... you just might get it![:0]

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Prometheus
11-26-2008, 04:30 AM
quote:Originally posted by PeopleSmoks


quote:People, I just want a world class Olga ready to be my submissive little house toy with no questions asked and few demands. Such a woman has not been invented yet.Ever see "The Stepford Wives"? I mean the original, not the stupid and poorly done remake. Be very careful what you ask for... you just might get it![:0]

Train returns


I love that movie, and I'd have no problem with a Stepford wife. That movie was progaganda against the Stepford fantasy. Reject a cute, submissive, accomodating woman, and go for a feminazi instead. Sam Kenison, "Honey, it's the guys... they want to know if I can take the dick with me. They're all taking their's."

PeopleSmoks
11-26-2008, 08:59 PM
Jeepers! swede, I hope you're okay! Feel better soon buddy!!!!

Sam Kenison!!! OH! OH!!OHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!:D

Maybe I'm remembering "The Stepford Wives" a bit differently than you, Prometheus, but didn't those docile, submisive, 'June Cleaver', 'Betty Crocker' sookas turn on their men and take over completely at the end of the movie???[:0]

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Prometheus
12-01-2008, 06:25 PM
No, I think June Cleaver got it on with "that creepy Eddie Haskell" in the kitchen, while Ward was cleaning his pipes in the library.

"You're looking particularly lovely today, Mrs. Cleaver, if I may say so myself."

"Why thank you, Eddie." <wink, wink>

or the other famous line...

"Ward, don't you think you were a little hard on the Beaver last night?"

Got to wonder how they got that past the censors! :)

PeopleSmoks
12-01-2008, 10:18 PM
Lest we forget that the Flinstones were having a ..."gay" ole time... back in Bedrock?[:0]

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Prometheus
12-01-2008, 11:10 PM
quote:Originally posted by PeopleSmoks

Lest we forget that the Flinstones were having a ..."gay" ole time... back in Bedrock?[:0]

Train returns


YABA DABA DOOOOOOOO!

I was always more of a Judy Jetson guy myself.

PeopleSmoks
12-04-2008, 09:35 PM
quote:I was always more of a Judy Jetson guy myself. I'm not sure, but I bet a Freudian might say that fantasizing about large headed cartoon teenage girls equates to a deep seeded resentment toward your mother?[:o)] But then again, in the classical Freudian world, it seems that everything is associated with resentment of ones mother and/ or sex with the same!

Personally, I had a thing for Daphney on "Scooby Doo". I think Shaggy was nailing that because Freddie just strikes me as being a bit of a eunuch! Since Sarah Michelle Gellar played the part in the Scooby Doo movie, I feel vindicated and validated in my cartoon fantasies!!!:D

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Prometheus
12-07-2008, 08:41 PM
Well, as mentioned before, the alltime sexiest cartoon character was Natasha, Boris Badenough's assistant on the Rocky & Bullwinkle show.

Next, I'd say Trixie from Speed Racer

Judy Jetson

Betty Rubble (M*LF)

Stella and Ursula from George of the Jungle

Penelope Pitstop from Wacky Racers (with the emphasis on Whacky).

I'm sure there were others, but that was a LOOOOONG time ago!

PeopleSmoks
12-09-2008, 12:02 AM
I'm into the FSUWs, but Natasha?

Have you ever seen the movie "Cool World"? Remember Holli Would? I do!!![:p] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWoq-6ufuY4&feature=related.

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Prometheus
12-09-2008, 02:38 AM
Funny, I was just listening to Disappointed by Electronic (one of the many reincarnations of New Order) the other day, and told my kids it was in an animated movie called "Cool World." That film was way ahead of its time. Thanks for the clip.

Prometheus
12-09-2008, 02:40 AM
quote:Originally posted by PeopleSmoks

I'm into the FSUWs, but Natasha?

Have you ever seen the movie "Cool World"? Remember Holli Would? I do!!![:p] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWoq-6ufuY4&feature=related.

Train returns


Man, I tell you Natasha just wired me for the whole FSU thing before there was a FSU. Just knew her and Evil Genius were getting it on while Boris watched. I've always gone for the forbidden fruit and having a fantasy about relations with Soviet women at the height of the Cold War was about as forbidden as it got.

Prometheus
12-09-2008, 02:42 AM
Swede, we are worried. Can you hold a pencil in your lips and type a few words on the keyboard??? You never even gave us the secrets to tantric sex!

PeopleSmoks
12-15-2008, 09:52 PM
Hey Prometheus! HEY SWEDE!!! WAKE UP!!!!!!!!

Evil Genius? I thought it was Fearless Leader??? Oh well!

Recently, I have begun to back away from several of my website accounts. I'm actually thinking about pursuing my 23 yo milashka. I know, I know!!!!! And that's the thing... "I know", but just like every other jackass out here, I'm still going to do it anyway.[V]

I hope that I can remain somewhat reserved over the next few months and not do anything excessively stupid, but I still wish to see if things might happen with my sweet Olya. My sweet Olya, is not to be confused with "My Three Olgas"!!! Although, she may turn out to be one in the end???[B)]

Train returns

PeopleSmoks
12-15-2008, 10:06 PM
To the dumbass Iraqi that threw his shoe at George W... Won't you feel like a moron when the C.I.A. accidentally targets your house as a terrorist training center, and a special ops team blows your house up!!!!!!!!!!!!

Train returns

Prometheus
12-16-2008, 04:51 AM
PeopleS,

Sorry I have been out of pocket Q4 is insanely busy for me. I'm traveling again and will be till the end of the month.

Your malishka sounds great. I am sorting out the following options:

1. Very sexy lady lawyer. 37 y.o. Says she loves me.
2. FGF. Gorgeous Irish Colleen. 40 y.o.
3. The lovely Latina from Mexico. Age 25.
4. Daughter of longtime client. Another redhead with DD cups. Probably too wild for me.
5. My legal assistant, whom I dearly love, but she's unhappily married.

I'm hoping it comes down to now. 1 or 5. I'm giving FSU MOB notice at end of month.

PeopleSmoks
12-16-2008, 06:24 PM
Hey Prometheus! Buddy, all 5 have some down side to them. This is just off the top of my head...
1) Maybe okay, but hope she's not a better lawyer than you if sh!t goes sour!!![:o)]
2) Why do you think Irishmen are always drunk? Irish women!!![:p]
3) Latinas... Lorena Bobbitt was a latina wasn't she???[:0]
4) There's an old saying, "Never mix business with pleasure." But then again, maybe #1 could defend #4's daddy on the impending manslaughter charge?[xx(]
5) see reason number 4 only substitute "pissed-off, jealous, psychotic husband" for "daddy"!!![xx(][xx(][xx(]

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Prometheus
12-17-2008, 01:53 PM
[:0]
quote:Originally posted by PeopleSmoks

Hey Prometheus! Buddy, all 5 have some down side to them. This is just off the top of my head...
1) Maybe okay, but hope she's not a better lawyer than you if sh!t goes sour!!![:o)]
2) Why do you think Irishmen are always drunk? Irish women!!![:p]
3) Latinas... Lorena Bobbitt was a latina wasn't she???[:0]
4) There's an old saying, "Never mix business with pleasure." But then again, maybe #1 could defend #4's daddy on the impending manslaughter charge?[xx(]
5) see reason number 4 only substitute "pissed-off, jealous, psychotic husband" for "daddy"!!![xx(][xx(][xx(]

Train returns


All too true PeopleSmoks, all too true. I've been so wretchedly busy lately, I haven't had much time to think, much less post about anything. Four cities in three days. It would be five, but I begged off last night and had an associate cover an out of town hearing for me.

Have to get in to the office and make some corporate types uncomfortable.

My preference would be #5, #1, #2, #3, in that order... and let's just say #4 might know your ex-wife heroin junkie wh@re. Hell, she might even be her! [:0][8][:0][8][:0]

Only 9 shopping days left till Christmas. We have a little tradition at Prometheus manor. My FSU MOB, who is now my adopted daughter/roommate without benefits, makes assorted demands for various high end gifts. This year a Rolex watch. Prometheus ponders the imponderable and ends up spending around $1500 on a handbag, a watch, a piece of jewelry. Christmas morning we open gifts and FSU MOB proceeds to tell me she hates what I bought, it's not what she asked for, do I have a receipt. The next day she goes and exchanges it for something different. Every Christmas for almost a decade. This year I said, "Daddy don't play that game anymore. You tell me exactly what you want, or I'll buy you a gift card." Nine days left, and we still don't have a clue. The gift card is looking more likely by the minute.

She actually asked me (who is seriously considering moving to a new house now in 45 days) for a $20,000 Rolex!!! Then she said she wanted a Prada bag. I found a nice $1,200 Prada, and she informed me that is was made of vinyl and she'd die before she'd carry a vinyl bag. "If it's not all leather, don't bother." Entry level for leather Prada is $1,800. I HATE the holidays with this woman.... arrrrggggghhhhh.

So she's invited her Russian friend, Western male enabler, and child to the house for Christmas. I reminded her that she'd already invited another Russian friend for Christmas, so are we going to have a full house, then she yelled at me that this was all my fault? So it will be three attractive 20 something FSUW in one room comparing handbags and jewelry, and three significantly older WM cuckolds in the other room, drinking ourselves into a stupor once more. It's an embarrassing club to be a member of PeopleSmoks, so check your malishka out twice before buying in.

PeopleSmoks
12-18-2008, 11:23 PM
Hey Prometheus! A quick and easy solution to the FSUW leach problem is for you to take a well rehearsed preemtive strike. You decide what monetary value you place on her and write her a check! Before she even has a chance to attack, tell her that you would give anything for your loving wife, but she has made it far too clear that she is no longer that loving wife! Tell her to take what you give her, and if she doesn't like it go shake her ass in a bar and maybe she'll find some other shmuck to buy her the leather Prada.[:o)]

If you get her a gift card, get it for Bed, Bath and Beyond, or maybe someplace that sells cookware![}:)]

Yup, I'm looking to pursue my little Olya, but I hope I am able to keep my eyes open for the signs. It'll be at least six months or more before I can return to Lugansk, so I figure there's plenty of time to find out what she's really all about.

Train returns

Prometheus
12-25-2008, 03:44 AM
Merry Christmas PeopleSmoks and Swede. I have the Russian delegation coming for roast beast tomorrow... Oksana, Natasha, Diana, and Kristina. I buckled and sprang for Prada leather. I invited one of her boyfriends for dinner. I think he's coming! Should be interesting.

PeopleSmoks
12-25-2008, 01:56 PM
MERRY CHRISTMAS ! ! ! ! ! !
From me, my three Olgas, Alfred, Frau Hindenberg, the guys in my private army, I mean security team, and all the staff here at Stately Smoks Manor, to swede, Prometheus and anyone else who's still out there, wishes of happiness, cheer, beer, and that your superhero tights don't ride up your crotch!
quote:I buckled and sprang for Prada leather. I invited one of her boyfriends for dinner.I really don't have anything positive to say about this developement.[V] Good luck buddy. Maybe YOU should invite a date too? In a battle of wits, your lovely lawyer friend would be the obvious choice, but if you want a good cat fight opportunity, bring in the latina!:D

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Prometheus
12-27-2008, 05:29 AM
Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. A day of hilarity, but the kids had a great time and were none the wiser. Really a good Xmas. Hope yours was too.

PeopleSmoks
12-27-2008, 05:07 PM
quote: Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.A very old yet very true statement. I'm really glad to hear that it all went well for you and that the kids had a good time considering the history of your FSU Bridezilla and your older son. I'm still a little shocked that you allowed her to invite one of her boyfriends. I honestly couldn't foresee any good coming from it.

My Christmas was like a normal Sunday in my family. We exchanged some gifts, of course, but aside from that, not very different. My sister and I often have Sunday dinner at our parents' house.:)



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Prometheus
12-29-2008, 02:34 AM
Happy New Years from RU Ladys (code name "RU ready to let us take your money?")

http://photo.ualadys.com/photos/0/6213/967558_50234.jpg

http://photo.ualadys.com/photos/0/6217/967641_68316.jpg

http://photo.ualadys.com/photos/0/6218/967648_1741.jpg

http://photo.ualadys.com/photos/0/9370/966082_87838.jpg

http://photo.ualadys.com/photos/0/1004/967393_67571.jpg

Prometheus

PeopleSmoks
01-03-2009, 03:58 PM
S novim godam ee visyoliva Razhdistva! :D

It's truly been a hellatious time here at Stately Smoks Manor these passed few weeks, but it should soon begin to wind down as we prepare for Christmas #2, Ukrainian style. Yup, as I've often said, if a guy wants to enter any type of relations with an FSU beauty, honor and respect for the traditions of her homeland should be among your considerations, and I abide by this.

Although my three slavic succubi are completely void of one single religious bone in their most decidedly, blessedly buxom bodies, the celebration of gift giving, or in their case, gift receiving, holidays, is a must happen part of existence. And despite the fact that Orthodox Christmas is far more a religious time as opposed to that of exchanging presents, since the presents are dispensed by Ded Moroz on New Years, it appears that presents are again expected. As if the see through lingerie and trampoline I got them aren't enough! Okay, I got those things for them, mostly for me, but I gave them stuff they wanted too!;)

From what I gather from the oh so gentle hints being dropped around Stately Smoks Manor (Please note that the use of the phrase "genlte hints", is one of unbridle sarcasm, as the hints being dropped are ultimately about as "gentile" as Vlad the Impaler's treatment of his prisoners), nothing says "I love you at Orthodox Christmas", quite like diamonds? Again, having recently given each of the Olgas a "pearl necklace", diamonds just seem so passe? Besides, I often compare their spectacular N.E.R.T.S. to being as hard as diamonds!!![:p]

At least they haven't asked for leather Prada!!![:0]

Still, the holidays have been mostly filled with cheer from my end, as I have managed to remain well lubricated mentally throughout the entire process... and watching my three Olgas scurrying about Stately Smoks Manor in their new see through lingerie with their spectacular N.E.R.T.S. leading the way, hasn't been too bad either.:D

Regretably, there was one casualty suffured during the holidays, when one of the mall Santas suffered a severe case of priapism, fell and hit his head on a Nutcracker display when the blood left his brain for regions south, after all three Olgas tried to sit on his lap at the same time. I sent flowers.

Well, to you and yours, from me and mine here at Stately Smoks Manor, good luck with YOUR Olgas in the year to come![8D]

swede
01-04-2009, 08:10 PM
Hi guys,

sorry about the long silence. And overdue greetings for christmas and new year.

My life has been rather dramatic the last 1-2 months, and it has taken all my available energy (nothing to do with wifey or FSUW), so I've had to cancel all my net communication in this period.

Hopefully I'll be up to normal level again soon, but don't worry if it will take a few days more.

PeopleSmoks
01-05-2009, 08:52 PM
Damn happy to hear from you swede!:) I hope you return to form soon.

PeopleSmoks
01-07-2009, 01:20 AM
Hey guys! A little update on my altogether too young Olga from Lugansk... As I continue to keep my feet and mind grounded in reality, for the most part anyway, I still retain a measure of good feelings about this girl.:)

Our correspondence remains consistant and continues to touch on what the future may hold for us. I figure that at least I've met this girl and know she IS a real person. Considering the number of scammers I've wasted time on, her factual existence alone is encouraging.

Discussions have begun to progress into talks about her making a trip to the US sometime this year. It should be interesting to see what happens during the next few months. Well, hope remains, but so does caution.

Prometheus
01-07-2009, 04:02 AM
People,

I really hope you have a good experience. The reason I invited my FSUW's boyfriend to Christmas dinner is I wanted to give him the benefit of a good close view of what life with many MOB's is like. Poor hapless Jim, whose FSUW lives in town in a travel trailer with a different man, was there. The girl's discussions about jewelry, handbags, etc., were almost comical. I followed him outside for a cigarette and told him I had no hard feelings but to keep his eyes and ears open inside and see if he really saw himself in that situation long term. He told me, "You've got nothing to worry about. I asked her for a serious commitment and she turned me down cold." I replied, "That is because you don't make enough money. She's holding out for a sugar daddy." Sadly, I was disappointed to hear of his lack of success. This is one piece of kryptonite I will be so relieved to be free of...

PeopleSmoks
01-07-2009, 08:41 PM
Hey Prometheus! The sad truth is that every guy thinks that things will be different with him. "I'll treat this girl right, unlike the unappreciative jackass she's dumping, and everything will be great for us!" I know this to be the case, because I was the guy saying it when I met my ex, the dirty little heroin junkie wh@re. We fail to realize that the problem in the b!tch's last relationship wasn't the jackass she was with, but it was HER!!![V]

I also think that somewhere in the inner most recesses of your subconcious, you're trying to hold on to her. Your motive for inviting her "boyfriend" sounds vaguely similar to my last effort to hold on to my ex, by letting the next guy know what he would be in for and hoping he'd run away![:0][B)]

I got the guy on her cell phone and told him all about her heroin addiction, the oxicodine, the 60 xanax in 3 days, never held a job more than 3 months except as a stripper, etc. Heck, I even warned him not to put his mouth down yonder way because I had just f****d the sh!t out of her 20 minutes before he picked her up... which happened to be true. Her tubes are tied, so condoms were never on the shopping list.

It was a couple of days later that I removed all her sh!t from my place, put it in storage and changed the locks!!! B-bye!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The thing is, you really have to decide if you want to keep on the way you are going, because she's not going to change, which means buying shoes to match the leather Prada handbag for her b-day, or if you're going to finally decide to change the locks??? Okay, you're married and it's not quite so easy, but from what you've written, it doesn't seem like it would be too darned difficult to get an adulterous photo of her, or twenty. But, that is something that can only be done when you firmly decide it's over and completely unsalvageable, and you are good with it being that way with no regrets.[8D]

As for my Olga, all I can do is try to keep at least one foot in reality as I pursue my "dream" girl... or next nightmare, but only time will tell at this point which she will be. She's not in the US yet, demanding leather Prada... yet...:(

Prometheus
01-09-2009, 10:35 AM
LOL. First, we're already divorced so I have no clue as to why I'm still here. It's the economy, the kids, and all this sh!t I've acquired and don't know what to do with. The Buddha attributed suffering to man's unwillingness or inability to accept change or "impermanence" as a natural and necessary part of life. I should just embrace that the split will be painful and a little messy, but hopefully better on the other side.

On the other hand, I'm fairly sure the devil I know is not much different than the devil I have yet to meet. I have invested a decade of my life and the balance of my youth in this "relationship." I can scarcely imagine putting on a happy face and getting back in the water. I get hit on regularly and usually by women with the same profile: dumped on by someone like me, looking for some security, and needy as hell! I shudder to think...

Well these are my 5 am musings...

PeopleSmoks
01-09-2009, 10:11 PM
Hey Prometehus!

"First, we're already divorced so I have no clue as to why I'm still here."

Buddy, sometimes it can be so hard to let go of the familiar, even though it tends to make you miserable more often than it makes you remotely happy. I was the same way. That's why it took me so long to finally realize that there was nothing there between me and my ex (the dirty little heroin junkie wh@re) except memories and the occassional roll in the sack, which, by the end, had become little more than an exchange of bodily fluids.[V] I referred to her as a c*m dumpster.

I guess that having a kid with her does make it a bit different from my story, since the kids were hers. Even though I spent 7+ years of my life taking care of them, raising them the best I could and doing everything their "real" dads never did, by the end, she had them so twisted that they had no love or respect for me, even though they would have been living in a homeless shelter if I hadn't taken them all into my place after she got evicted from her apartment.

Hopefully, the next "devil" won't be worse!!!:) But, yea, avoid the "needy" ones at all cost!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!;)

Prometheus
01-16-2009, 06:02 PM
quote:Originally posted by PeopleSmoks
[br]Hopefully, the next "devil" won't be worse!!!:) But, yea, avoid the "needy" ones at all cost!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!;)


Amen. I've told you a little bit about my options at this point, but it just amazes me to no end the incessant IM'ing, phone calls, emails, you name it some of these women throw at you. Then they get upset that I'm being "withdrawn!" I'm like, "You sent me fifteen emails today, and I wrote you back twice... that's not being 'withdrawn' that's called trying to earn a living." You can only imagine what a relationship with that would be like! Blech! [xx(]

I honestly think that I deserve a partner who wants to share a life with me, and not "own" me for her own personal needs. Let's give each other some fun times and friendship, bump our uglies when the mood strikes, and then get on with living.

My FSUW feels I am beholden to listen to a half hour description of every little thing she did since leaving the house in the morning, but if I say something about *my* day, I'm immediately interrupted, or talked over, or simply ignored. I don't mind it, but I sure as hell don't appreciate being subjected to the daily log of activities involving people I don't know and things I don't care about. I've told her, "you need to learn the difference between talking *with* someone, and talking *at* someone." [xx(][xx(][xx(]

PeopleSmoks
01-16-2009, 09:03 PM
Hey Prometheus! Fifteen e-mails while she knows you're at work is just a tad too much. To me, an a.m. "I'm thinking about you" and an afternoon "Call me tonight" is plenty during work hours.

What you seek in a partner is pretty much what most guys really want. Small variations here or there, but it's the basics. All guys like you, me and our M.I.A. buddy swede just want a basicly good woman.

Where are they? I'm still looking toward the FSU, but in all honesty, if things don't work out with my Olya, I might just cash in my retirement fund, buy some porn mags and move to Alaska!!![:0]

Prometheus
01-17-2009, 11:26 AM
quote:Originally posted by PeopleSmoks
[br]
Where are they? I'm still looking toward the FSU, but in all honesty, if things don't work out with my Olya, I might just cash in my retirement fund, buy some porn mags and move to Alaska!!![:0]


I forget, but does Sarah Palin have a sister? A soccer mom who can dress a caribou sounds pretty good right now!

PeopleSmoks
01-18-2009, 02:55 PM
Hey Prometheus! Palin has a sister, but she's no "Miss Alaska". Then again, after 6 months in an igloo with a bunch of porn mags, which after 6 months would probably have all the really good pages stuck together... [:0]

As for FSU/MOB hunting, I guess I can always look on the bright side? I've enjoyed my two trips to Lugansk and I can now order a beer in Russian! But, it's not quite over yet for me since things seem to be going okay with Olya and me so far. Time will tell of course. At present, I plan to take another trip to Lugansk later this year, but there are a few things that I have to work around.

I'm already going to be taking at least a month off from work during March when I finally have the surgery on my knee, so vacation time will have to wait a while. I hope to go in September, which is when I wanted to go the last time, but had to put it off until November. I wish I could go in the summer. I'd love to see Olya in a bikini![:p][}:)] With luck, it'll be warm in September.:D

Prometheus
01-26-2009, 02:44 AM
Dude,

I have been offered sexual servitude, another child ( that I have requested for a decade), even an offer to adopt the stepchild she despises. I am withholding final judgement, but it is good to be the king for a change. I took her bowling tonight. Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk. The only Prada bag in the whole place.

PeopleSmoks
01-27-2009, 09:27 PM
Hey Prometheus! Sexual servitude sounds great, but will you be the only guy she's serving? Toward the end, I made my ex, the dirty little heroin junkie wh@re, sleep on the sofa and locked the bedroom door. But, if I want a piece, I took her in the bedroom, got what I wanted and usually sent her out of the room when I was done because I knew she would be going out later and giving it up to another guy.[V] Oh, she served me well and whenever I wanted, but I knew it wasn't an exclusive deal at that point... which is why I finally gave her the boot!

As for having another kid with her, I'd be damn certain she is YOURS and ONLY YOURS before taking that ride. The wh@re and I discussed getting married having kids together, and almost got hitched on the way to visit her grand parents in NC. She had her tubes tied after squirtung out her second and we never put together the cash to reverse it. At this point, I'm glad neither ever happened!

But, use her while you can and keep your eyes and ears open. You know if things are going in the wrong direction!

GOOD LUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!

swede
01-28-2009, 07:28 PM
Well, finally I got around to write. I know the following is a digression from the main theme of the site, but I thought I would give an explanation for my silence.

It seems, that I'm 'psychic', as I at the end of november for almost a week had a quite extraordinary experience of something outside the 'normal'. This would ofcourse have been cute, if it had been contact with flowerfairies, seeing auras or other new-age favorites, but as it is, I had a close encounter with beings of a very hostile and aggressive character. It's not my intention to go into detail, (unless anyone is interested and then only to a certain degree), but only say, that it's the most scary thing, I've ever experienced in my whole life. Something between living in a horror movie and the more sinister parts of the x-files.

As in the case of Whitley Strieber ('Close encounter' etc), I have been examined by the highest local medical authorities, and I don't have any braintumors, epilepsy, schizophrenia or other illnesses of any known kind. I don't do drugs, and nothing exceptionally has happened in my life recently to initiate any breakdown.

So I can only conclude, that I either suffer from some new and unknown mental illness, or that I have upheld the tradition of shamans, religious persons etc by experiencing another dimension of existence.

As our former contributor 'Ham' many times remarked, anybody can say anything on the net (and often does), so I do not expect anyone to just trust my words. It's up to the reader, and I won't be offended by being met with disbelief. It certainly does sound weird.

But to connect to scamming in very general terms, I can associate to my former ruminations here on the character of life. As longtime readers of this thread know, I have stressed the phenomenon of predation as a basic part of complex life (as opposite to symbiosis). I have developed a rather personal cosmological theory, and in this I postulate predation as a general principle of universal existence.

My recent experience seems to support this opinion. These beings I met behaved just as predatory as the average human alpha-(fe)male, and apart from the highly frightening aspects (e.g. I was threatened to my life), it also has a gloomy consequence: To expect or manifest decency, honesty, responsibility etc IS really an uphill activity everywhere. It's not only humans, who are demonstrating predation in spite of having a relatively well developed intellect.

Personally this had led me to speculate on the value of a public discussion on moral issues. It looks as if the whole cirkus of life (in all its manifold manifestations) mainly consists of grabbing what you can, and to get out of that threadmill is a personal decision, which very few want to make.

It's not, that I feel indignant about other complex beings not liking us; possibly even being hostile to us. I've always agreed with 'agent Smith' in the Matrix movies, when he said that humanity is a virus destroying its host (our planet), but sofar I've had the hope, that we humans after all represented an extreme. That hope has evaporated now.

This post isn't very fluent or coherent, my only excuse is, that I've been totally drained of energy for the last two months. Maybe, or maybe not, I will eventually return to a more functional level and be able to formulate myself better.

PeopleSmoks
01-28-2009, 11:19 PM
Hey swede! Welocome back!!! I must say that your experience is quite extraordinary as you describe it. Seriously, are you sure the ex-wifey didn't spike your fruit punch? But, anything is possible I guess.;)

swede
01-29-2009, 09:04 AM
She wasn't even around.

In any case, there was nothing hazy about what I saw, felt and heard. It was with a definite inner logic and causality, way beyond night-dreams or drug-induced visions/hallucinations. As clear and distinct as 'normal' life.

In my youth I had my share of chemical experimentation with mind expanding drugs. This was nothing like it.

If I start doubt my senses concerning this, I might as well start them in ordinary situations. Which is ofcourse an option.

'Everything is an illusion'.

PeopleSmoks
01-29-2009, 03:49 PM
Hey swede! Seriously, tell me more about this. You know that I try to keep an open mind, despite my basic social programming. I won't crap on you, it all sounds strange, but as I said... it's the basic programming that limits us all.

Are you talking ETs? Or some other kind of encounter? Again, not to belittle anything you say, just trying to formulate some sort of thought on this.

Have you had a chance to catch up on the incoherant babblings that Prometheus and I have been wandering off into? Prometheus in his tumultuous battles with his FSU bride of several years, and my continuing hopes of finding one that won't follow her basic socio-genetic programming by evolving into a Prada loving, swimming pool worshiper![B)]

PeopleSmoks
01-29-2009, 10:01 PM
A joke from one of the 19 yo website models that wrote to me today:

A husband walks into Victoria 's Secret to purchase a sheer negligee for
his wife. He is shown several possibilities that range from $250 to $500
in price -- the more sheer, the higher the price. Naturally,
he opts for the most sheer item, pays the $500, and takes it home. He
presents it to his wife and asks her to go upstairs, put it on, and
model it for him.

Upstairs the wife thinks (she' s no dummy ), 'I have an idea. It's so
sheer that it might as well be nothing. I won't put it on, but I'll do the modeling
naked, return it tomorrow, and keep the $500 refund for myself.'

She appears naked on the balcony and strikes a pose. The husband says,
'Good Grief! You'd think for $500, they'd at least iron it!'

He never heard the shot.

Funeral on Thursday at Noon. Closed coffin.

I thought it was kind of funny! Thought I'd share.:D

PeopleSmoks
02-01-2009, 12:59 AM
Hey guys! Completely off the general subject of FSU/ MOB scamming and relations, I'm watching a show on cable talking about creating a human/ ape hybrid. WHY? What purpose could such an abomination serve??? Okay, here's a bizarre connection to FSU/ MOB... There was a Russian scientist in the 1920's that was experimenting with artificially inseminating a female chimp with human sperm, but failed. Then, he wanted to inseminate a human female with orangatan sperm. Fortunately, he lost funding and later died before he could bring he abhorant dream to reality. Supposedly, Uncle Joe Stalin wanted a breed of super warriors? The other story was that the scientist was hoping to destroy religious belifs of creation v. evolution. Either way, it's one of the most F*****D up things I've ever heard of!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe, the end of humanity will be a good thing???

swede
02-02-2009, 06:19 PM
Hi PeopleS,

I'm slowly gathering strength to communicate again, but it has taken its time. I'm sorry I haven't followed your and Prometheus' recent posts lately, but I will catch up on it as soon as possible.

Concerning my own strange experiences, I will also soon try to present some general information about them, but it will probably be rather massive. I've had time to incorporate them in my other ruminations, and can even relate to scamming (thus justifying it here on this site).

swede
02-03-2009, 11:29 AM
Here follows some reflections on my recent weird contact with non-human beings (I had a similar experience 2? years ago also). Both episodes lasted 5 days, 24 hours a day (apart from when I slept ofcourse) and were at the same level of clarity in my perceptions as 'normal' life.

Before I start, I must say, that I do believe science to be a very useful and effective tool for gathering information and for practical purposes. But I must add, that this only is valid, when science stayes inside its own selfdefined assumptions or parameters, especially concerning empiricism. Once science is concerned with areas of existence outside its own domain, it's unable to make any definite or authoritative statements. Scientists occasionally overstep this limitation, and postulate science to be the answer to everything, also such as it has no competence to talk about. This is called 'scientism' and isn't better than any other beliefsystem (as f.ex. religion), where no epistemology or evidence exists.

I could see, listen and (in one case touch) this beings. I communicated with them in a meaningful and coherent way, though there ofcourse were times, when we had problems understand each others concepts. They were of a less density than the ordinary matter/materia, human beings are used to consider as the 'physical' world. But they were not transparent. I met quite a few different 'races' or species, including animals too.

Letting the ET possibility apart for a moment, I have concluded, that the origin of these beings can be theorized to be one of three possibilities: They live in our dimension, but has such a low density, that most people don't see them (like air, which is there all the time, though we don't see it). Only when our sense-mechanisms are enhanced (especially sight), we can see them. Or: They live in other dimensions, which sometimes overlap our dimension. Or: They posses a very advanced PSI technology enabling them to e.g. create holograms or to form mental pictures directly in the human mind. One or possibly two or all three of these theories in combination can be the answer. They can't 'read' our minds very well, and have usually very little understanding of the human sphere.

What humans experience visually when 'seeing' them is most likely partly illusionary. Not in the sense, that such experiences are hallucinations, but rather that we see something, but not exactly as it 'really' is. You could call it 'glamour' or a 'spell' put around the 'real' thing. They make theater for us, and I have a strong suspicion, that most of the ET experiences are part of this theater or disinformation tactic. (I do not deny the possibility of 'real' ETs).

They are shapeshifters, and don't like to be visible closer than two meters from a human being. Apparantly they can partly regulate their own visibility, or simply fade out or go away, when humans are too close. A majority of the beings I've had prolonged contact with are hostile to humanity.

Now I can go back to 'scamming', albeit on a rather abstract level. These beings are not only hostile to humans, but they also have some rather intense conflicts going on amongst themselves. Both my experiences included heavily armament amongst these beings, and on the recent experience a small war was going on for 5-6 hours between different groups. I have some rather reasonable idea of the motives of such conflicts (I saw lots of evidence, if I can be at liberty to use this word here). These motives aren't that different from what humans fight about.

As my main thesis here on this site has been predation as a basic part of life, I can only conclude, that my idea, that all existence contains a major part of predation, is reinforced by the knowledge, that not only 'normal' earth-life has it, but beings at another level or dimension practise predation too. This makes it more 'universal', and had led to a personal conviction, rather gloomy, that it's 'natural' to be predatory. Predatory manifested f.ex. as alpha-behaviour, scamming or other kinds of asocial greed in general.

Being decent or humanistic is less of a natural attribute, than I hoped for earlier, and while I have no intention of changing my own moral code, I now have definitely lower expectations to the rest of existence than ever before. My weird hermit and solitary individualism has been boosted still a step.

Prometheus
02-03-2009, 03:28 PM
*feeling very lucky I only have a Prada loving FSUW to deal with*

swede
02-03-2009, 04:14 PM
Prometheus,

being a christian, my experiences shouldn't be so surprising to you. The christian church has, to my knowledge, talked much about about 'demons' for ages (even if that's out of fashion now). As have almost all other religions in the form of djinns, maya, and (with PeopleS' forefathers) evil spirits etc etc. I'm not quite alone.

But strangely enough, in the midst of mortal fear (which I still suffer from on and off), it's in some way better than having those emotional problems connected with a really bad relationship. (Hope I don't get any Freudian explanations on this). But ofcourse this is a personal thing, depending on the individual.

And, .....slowly, getting back to FSUW relationships (I'm not going to let my weird experience just go), after I've had my almost two years of infight with wifey, I kind of won.

I did like you and PeopleS, I behaved like gentleman.

I paid for minimum existance level, but not more. After two years of this, she has now returned to her senses and is a/not living here, b/looking for a steady job elsewhere and c/striving to appreciate my support.

We still meet happily at the weekends.

Sometimes people need a (strong) push in the right direction; if they fail to see the light, you must be strong enough to see, that they would be a catastrophe for you in the end, no matter what.

But this can't make generalisations about FSUW, and in any case she's polish, which is slightly better.

After my first marriage/relationship, it took me 10 years to get out of it, but in the end I concluded, that there is no cosmic justice. It's up to yourself to find 'happiness' (sorry I leave god out of this as a possible bringer of happiness, but that's not my direction).

Strength. But not QUITE the american way.

Prometheus
02-04-2009, 04:02 AM
Swede, I am not knocking you, as I have read of many demonic encounters and struggles between saints, aesthetics,and monastics and otherworldly beings. Their descriptions of these encounters are not too different than your own.

I read your posts on my iPhone at an early hour, and at first believed you were claiming to have had encounters with ET's, which I also have no reason to deny as a possibility, but is slightly more dubious in my estimation.

I am not superstitious, but prefer not to draw attention to myself by these unwanted forces. That is one reason I do not decorate my house for Halloween or keep texts concerning these subjects in my library. It's kind of like turning a flashlight on in the dark, you will attract insects eventually.

I would encourage you to consult with a spiritual leader with experience and maturity in this area and have your house exorcised or blessed. I had a problem with dark spirits ten years ago that was not cured until such a ceremony was performed. I still have my house blessed this time each year with censors and prayers. The Orthodox book of prayers includes an exorcism, which is performed as part of every baptism and repeated by all present.

I wish you health and strength and a speedy recovery. God bless.

swede
02-04-2009, 05:44 PM
Hi Prometheus,

thanks for your kind and supportive words.

The way I see it, the universe and its separate parts are originally created flawed. Eiher because the architect is incompetent or possibly s/he willfully made it this way. The flaw consists of an imperfection between the various fundamental forces or principles, on which the universe is constructed. More precisely this imperfection is a lack of harmony, symmetry and balance between the forces/principles; there's too much of some and too little of others.

This leads to a feeling of incompleteness on behalf of the parts of the universe, a constant unfullfilledness, emptiness, 'hunger', so there will be an endless striving after the missing forces/principles. Hence the dynamic character of universal existence, where every part always is searching for something outside itself (but seldom finding it).

This unending search is usually manifested as predation, which is a mechanical, sheepwalking function.

I could go into detail, and even back up this idea with scientific evidence, but I'll leave it for now, as it would be rather lengthy.

The part of universal forces/principles, which is in short supply (because of the cosmogenic blueprint, not because of original sin or other insane doctrines), is known in the human sphere as 'love'. I'm ofcourse not referring to the usual mix of lust, romance and Folly-wood fantasies, which goes for love. I'm talking of that kind of love, which can be expressed as compassion, empathy, give rise to responsibility and personal ethical behaviour, or devotion to higher ideals. In some religions it is practised as a method to acchieve the aim of that religion.

It's quite difficult to exactly describe higher love, but it is very different from what most human beings think it is.

This higher love can, if it is found and experienced, function as unifying principle between otherwise warring parts of existence. From an individual's own inner conflicts, to how people react to each other. A certain amount of love is necessary to function symbiotically. But symbiosis is not a mechanical, sleepwalker function. It is based on willfull use of consciousness.

To forestall any ideas, I must add, that this higher love in no way is in opposition to our other universal forces/principles. E.g. it's not necessary to live as a celibate to acchieve higher love. It's not necessary to become anti-intellectual. And personally I believe, that religion is only an option, not a condition, to find higher love. A convinced atheist can do it as well as a religious person.

As can be observed easily, not many people find higher love. So we have the world we have, and maybe soon we won't have any world at all, because our destructive toys of all kinds are taking on its own life, outside our control, untempered by wisdom, harmony or even understanding. This is with certainty a choice all complex races must make at one point or other in its developement. If higher love generally is a missing part of the universe, which you'll have to search for actively, then intellect and practical evolution will always reach a point, where the results are based on a predatory attitude. As with humans, we use more time, energy and money on developing weapons, creating a hysterical consumer-society and generally lying to ourselves and others most of the time, than on creating a sound world. As so often I write like a wildeyed prophet, but I hope, that my analysis above of the hows and whys makes it clear, that I seriously try to find answers and methods.

I would have liked to go into practical methods on this subject, and also relate this to Prometheus suggestion of exorcism, but this is long enough for now.

Prometheus
02-04-2009, 07:47 PM
Understood. And we agree on many levels. I get personally annoyed with the mega-churches of the West, with a Starbucks in the lobby, preaching that "God wants you to be prosperous!" No, God wants you to be like He was on earth... Modest, humble, unconditionally loving, and a servant without a rock for a pillow. But that doesn't sell very well these days...

PeopleSmoks
02-04-2009, 08:45 PM
Hey guys! Welcome back swede. I have to agree that what you describe sounds more like a "haunting" than an ET experience. The thing is that a "haunting" doesn't necessarily have to mean something bad, evil, or demonic, but merely some form of contact with the spirit world. The self-realization that we as human beings, often feel fear and or dread toward anything we don't fully understand or takes us by surprise. For you swede, this can be said to be a part of our basic programming... self-preservation.

Now, you face the really hard part of your experience. That being, to acurately recall and evaluate what you saw and heard. Then, try to find the meaning to it all! Remember that our eyes are the fools of creation and that our perception of things isn't always what they really are. If this was a spiritual encounter, the spirits themselves may have been limited in some way as to what and how they could communicate with you.

A case for perception: In the US, a man walking down the street carrying a Prada handbag may be either a homosexual, or Prometheus buying gifts for his FSUWifey...[B)][:o)] If he is shabbily dressed and running, he may be thought to be a thief who just stole the purse! Reality... He is the husband of the handbag's owner. She forgot her bag when she went to work and he is running to catch her before she gets into a cab!!!

It will be up to you to figure out what you saw and how to put it all together.

There are two distinct schools of thought about creation pertaining to whether everything is flawwed or not and whether God/ Intelligent Designer, screwed up. I blend the two in my own way. Yes, creation is flawwed, and God/ ID intended it that way. This goes toward my personal belief system. Mankind was given great power. We have the abilty to evolve and develop into much more than we are. We also have the ability to destroy each other and ourselves. What some people see as a flaw is that we were given the ability to understand the difference between right and wrong and the ability to choose.

Does God/ ID know what is happenning? Yes. Why does he allow bad things? I don't know. To think of time and space as non-linear, it can be said that our today has already happenned in another yesterday.[:0] It's hard to say what God wants... But, if we manage not to destroy creation, we may find out someday?

swede
02-05-2009, 11:11 AM
Hi PeopleS and Prometheus,

thanks for following up my posts on this subject, which only by a stretch of very circumstantial approach can be said to have any connection to scamming. But then the charm of 'psychobabbling' has always been, that we can roam into the most unlikely subjects for a while.

Not only to digress into 'paranormal' experiences (if that's what they are), but also to make a further digression into cosmogeny and cosmology. But I found it important to bring up the possibility of insufficiency in the way the universe and its parts percieve existence.

Those forces/principles I mentioned in my last post numbers three to my knowledge, and probably operates at the level of zero-point/quantum-fluctuations. When zero-point evolves into the manifested universe, these three forces/principles will actualise into what is percieved as the universe. From the basic to the complex.

If one of these three forces/principles is scarce or (alternatively) difficult to assimilate into a harmonious structure, it means for complex beings (e.g. humans), that our perceptional process is only 2/3 of what it should have been. We don't have all the facts/information/data we need, to know what's really going on, so we fill the gaps with fantasies or idle speculations, only adding to the confusion. We can't even formulate a functional epistemology.

PeopleS, while I respect your right to have your answers, I do not feel it intrusive to take the liberty of discussing them in a non-aggressive way.

Your answer is 'God's mysterious ways', but this proposal has some weak points. At least if a basic discussion of God's existence or not has been conducted on the line of 'intelligent design' (in an effort to reconcile abramic religion with empiric and rational science). Because if the 'intelligent design' argument is used (personally I at least believe in the 'design' part of it, there IS an architect), some other steps from scientific cosmogeny/cosmology are unavoidable. The main argument in 'intelligent design' is, that the chance of the universe 'happening by chance' is so infinitesimal, that only a person believing in total scientism would support the 'chance' argument (making him/her no better than the average religious fanatic). But the actual content of 'intelligent design' must be taken into consideration. WHAT is it, that has been designed?

Undecided scientists say, that this extremely narrow set of universe-creating parameters, have only created a universe, where beings like e.g. humans will evolve. There may be other parameters, which alternatively could lead to other kinds of universes, where 'life' (complex beings) could exist. So they say, maybe the parameters aren't that unique after all. This suggestion isn't very tenable. Even if we expanded the universe-creating parameters to including everything possible for just creating a universe at all, it will still be defensible as a 'design' theory.

A 'designed' universe must of necessity first of all contain the possibility for this universe to exist, that means not to collapse quickly from enthropy. Why any creator would WANT any kind of universe at all is ofcourse really 'mysterious', and why he created at least one universe (ours), where the parameters has been set to point to predation instead of symbiosis is even more mysterious.

To say that going through the hard school of predation has any intrinsic meaning for our universe is difficult for me to understand. I would personally have been quite content without it, and I probably could have 'learned' something (if this is necessary) from a symbiotic basis. I think, that the reason for a predative universe is telling something about the architect, not the universe.

Predation is quick, symbiosis is slow. There's a race against time (concerning enthropy), and as a consequence of the strong anthropic principle (:this universe must from its parameters automatically develop complex life-forms, and these complex lifeforms can act like machines for negative enthropy) it is suggested, that the predation principle has the mainpurpose of keeping the universe going. Not for the benefit of the universe itself, but for its creator.

From here a specialised scientific or theological discussion could continue. I'll just point out, that the alternative answers to the abramic doctrines seem to be much more in accordance with science and common sense. OK, I rely on intellect, not on faith. Fair enough for anyone choosing an individual startingpoint on this.


Back to the content of my experiences and our ongoing comments on them.

Actually I DID see a couple of 'small greys' at my first encounter, and I have seen an UFO hovering around here some years ago (that time with a wittness. We saw it together for more than an hour). But as I said before, the PSI element is so strong in all my experiences, that I'm not convinced of the ET theory. The ET theory could very well be a hoax for some even more strange reality.

I'm more inclined to believe in theories proposing other dimensions inside this universe (not parallel universes), where things 'in reality' manifest in somewhat different ways from what we meet in our dimension. I can e.g. theorize, that the same physical and chemical laws exist in another dimension, but that the particles (in the wave/particle dualism) manifest more like waves, giving us the impression of non-corporality. They would to a high degree consist of 'light' instead of matter. These beings I saw could pass through physical objects in our world. but when in contact with a physical matter object, they would be non-visible for me.

OR: It could be a perceptual problem. That humanity filters its experience of existence so hard (even harder than supposed by ordinary psychology), that we actually leave out most of what is happening around us. We have already been into perception at length, no need for me to drone on.

PeopleS' favourite: 'What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger' is very true in my case. While I still have recurring moments with a deep fear, I have also become stronger in some ways. As both my encounters contained direct and open threats to my life, I have like everyone else close to dying been forced to make a close scrutiny of my reaction to my own death. There are other benefits also. Fundamentally being a coward concerning conflicts, I am now learning to live with the occasional fear. I'm absolutely not braver than before, I'm beginning to learn to not let the fear dominate me. As you know, I live rather isolated, and when it gets dark here, it's DARK. In spite of possible 'spooks' waiting for me out in the darkness, I force myself to confront it occasionally by going out in the middle of the night.

And finally: Compared to a majority of encounter 'victims', I was a/completely conscious (in the ordinary meaning of the word. Not spiritually higher consciousness) all the time, and b/I kept enough of my wits to observe as many details, as I could. So I have massed amounts of information. 2x5 days experiences is a long time.

But alas not enough to make any definitive conclusions, though I have some theories, which I can use as starters.

PeopleSmoks
02-05-2009, 04:05 PM
Hey guys! Considering the simple fact that we three are the only somewhat regular contributors to these forums, I would hope the admin would allow our digressions, especially since we do actually get around to the scamming issue from time to time.

Perhaps there will come a day when science is able to figure out a nice neat formula to explain "everything", but I don't foresee it happenning, at least anytime soon, if ever. Science has given us a lot, to this there is no doubt. But, it's because of my personal beliefs that I think the true answer to "everything" lies beyond the realm of a scientific equation.

The problem with science is that just about none of the wonderful theories that are floated about can be proven. My thoughts are quite simple, we don't know because we have not obtained a level of consciousness that will permit us to understand the answer without our heads exploding.[:0] Trust me, I am far from a Scientologist, but I have watched various sci-fi TV shows, movies, etc, that raise some interesting thoughts along this line.

What the heck is that big, unused chunk of our brain for? Is it just there to keep our ears from touching? Or, is it a locked treasure chest full of wonder? I see it as a room that we don't have the key to open yet. My beliefs are that it is the slow evolution of man that will someday allow us to access these areas of our brain and the power they hold... power to understand the answers.

There are two thoughts regarding the progression of man. The first being basic evolution and the second being mutation. Mutation doesn't necessarily refer to physical abnormalities or super powers, but a leap forward in the evolutionary process.

swede
02-05-2009, 07:21 PM
PeopleS,

we seem to more and more attuned, though we approach the same subjects from different angles. And though we not always arrive at the same conclusions, there's enough communication platform to make it definitely worthwhile. You, Prometheus and formerly Ham are exceptional 'sparring-partners', far exceeding my hopes for this thread, when it was initiated.

Admin must have its own inscrutable reasons for allowing this mental wandering around, maybe the relative success of the thread.

Cit PeopleS:

"There are two thoughts regarding the progression of man. The first being basic evolution and the second being mutation. Mutation doesn't necessarily refer to physical abnormalities or super powers, but a leap forward in the evolutionary process."

Agreed. But this is only the mechanical, sheepwalker options, where things are done automatically. Without doubt they represent the major part of human (and other complex beings) evolution, but the possibility of a creative, conscious effort does exist for the individual. It's the possibility of using 'free will' as an evolutionary shortcut.

Cit PeopleS:

"Perhaps there will come a day when science is able to figure out a nice neat formula to explain "everything", but I don't foresee it happenning, at least anytime soon."

Science will have to redefine its parameters first. Already as it is now, science has big problems, because a lot of the present work is done through abstract mathematics, sometimes bordering on the esoteric, which is very difficult to test experimentally. IF humanity survives, there future will see panels of philosophers, scientists, theologians, practical mystics etc. working together like we're modestly doing here on this thread. Robert Anton Wilson is one of my ideals, who propagated such an attitude.

As I see the flow this thread has had over the year since it started, it looks as if there's a willingness on part of all the steady contributors to accept a think-tank/brainstorm approach. It's my growing conviction, that only by looking at a whole-ness (not to be confused with new-age holistic blather), we can structure meaning by finding patterns. This is an epistemological method I'm more and more attracted to, as opposite to the standard method, where some dogmatic or doctrinal system evaluates the content of 'truth' of information or theories.

Given the same observation on existence, any fixed assumption model (a religion, science, 'real-politic', ideals etc) would come up with each its own (often contradictory) answer. Here we can play ball with ideas, and at least for me, this has been of enormous value. Because of the differences in our various outlooks, I always try to put the communication-process firsthand, slowly learning to find common ground from where we can have reciprocial understanding. It's inspirering for me to look at many facets of the same 'data', and in the course of this process finding similarities instead of disagreements. Not because I find safety in numbers, but because I find it a qualitative confirmation.

It fits well with my obsession for symbiosis, a kind of approximative truth-evaluation (I like to call it symbiotic epistemology). We compare questions and answers.

Given my theory of existential incompleteness, I would say, that answers/methods lie in expanding to 'wholeness', found by searching actively.

Enough on methodology.

Before I sidetrack myself even more, I would like to return to Prometheus' suggestion of exorcism for my special situation.

I would like to use the saying: 'Heaven is not a place, it's a state of mind' as an illustration. I'm fundamentally a 'do-it-yourself' person ,whenever this is possible. This goes from building houses, repairing cars to philosophy, theology, cosmology and perception-psychology. I like to cut out the middleman.

So to expand the above saying I would add: 'Heaven (ultimate truth) is not a place, it's not a ritual, it's not a description; it's an experienced state of being'.

I have no doubts, that exorcism functions. I have on occasion used a minor form using reiki energy to 'clean' places, and besides I'm convinced, that the various methods or rituals used in different religions for this purpose often give the expected results. But the strange thing is, that it's performed on a basis of sometimes contradictory religious doctrines and with far removed rituals. But it still functions. My only answer to this is, that it's not because of any 'intrinsic power' in the rituals or religions, but because of the 'faith' state-of-mind created by an exercism ritual. Hopefully without offending anyone, I believe, that exorcism (and for that sake a lot of other religious ritualistic activities) puts the participants in a special receptive spiritual psychological state of mind. I sincerely don't want to derogate any religion, but my postulate does have something for it.

Not being of the 'faith' type myself (rather the opposite, I seldom trust anything on faith), I try to go direct to the source of this cosmic, transcendent or divine energy/state of mind (whatever the reader prefers), through deep meditation. Meditation unattached to any special religious doctrine, though with some fixed methodology.

I'm sure, that this pulled me through my last encounter with 'the others' relatively sane. (Any passive readers who would like to comment on my 'sanity' are wellcome. I promise you a polite answer, if you put forward polite doubts).

Prometheus, I'm grateful for your concern and willingness to make positive suggestions, only I don't have the 'faith' necessary to give power to an exorcism. Besides Sweden isn't exactly a country, where you can find exorcists in the phonedirectory, and while I wouldn't mind having a 'holy' person doing it for me, with me as a passive participator, I'm afraid that the local variety of exorcist would be the 'hell, damnation, fire and brimstone' type, and that would be asking for trouble, because these types would be excellent entry points for 'the others'.

scamfree
02-06-2009, 10:03 AM
Hey swede.
Ive been reading your problem, exersism isnt your answer.At this piont you are making an excellent entry point for the others.i dont know how to make it go away,but from my own experience i cant go near anywhere where theres history it just reacts with my mind,just cant help it,but its in my mind,maybe you have a gift.i know i do.

swede
02-06-2009, 12:27 PM
Hi Scamfree,

thanks for your answer. You and I are not alone on this. I know two people, who've had experiences as intensive as mine (though not for such long periods) and maybe 5-6 who've had short, one or two times experiences.

I think that the buddhistic saying: 'It's all in the mind' maybe covers a considerable part of encounters with 'the others'. In the meaning, that you need a special mindset to see them.

But then ofcourse some outer factors play a role also. It's been suggested, that special geological formations can strengthen PSI experiences, and I believe, that I live on such a spot. The PSI activity is so high here, that I suspect I'm living on top of a 'portal'. Actually 'the others' aren't that interested in me, I'm more like a point of irritation for them, as they want to go around their rather shady business un-noticed.

On both my encounters, where two different humanoid races turned up, one for each seperate encounter, they were obviously surprised, when they discovered, I could see them, and they quickly turned hostile.

If you feel like it, in whatever degree you want, would you share a little of your experiences?

And don't worry, those of you who may be afraid this is going to turn into a permanent paranormal site. We'll soon return to more mundane subjects, or at least to human nature.

PeopleSmoks
02-06-2009, 05:06 PM
Hey guys! swede, ole buddy, you surprise me by having seemed to place limitations on human evolution/ mutation to the physical and relegating this to "sheepwalking"!!! Keep in mind that mutation is far from automatic and if the use of "free will" to expand ones mind were truly possible beyond the limitations that exist, don't you think that a man such as yourself would have "willed" himself to be more aware of what everything really is?

I, however, refer to the evolution/ mutation of the human brain, mind, consciousness... There are a couple of schools of thought about the 10% usage of the human brain theory. It is said that this is partly due to a misquote of Einstein and others refering to the general lack of creativity of most humans. It's also said that if the other 90% of the brain wasn't being used, synaptic connections would deteriorate.

Maybe??? But as I usually will do, I can put it terms that the common man can at least make sense of, even if they disagree. It's proven that there are electrical impulses throughout the human brain, even the "unused 90%. It is also proven that these impulses are concentrated to a small portion of the brain. It seems to me that the remaining 90% is merely receiving enough to keep it alive and the synaptic pathways open for future use... Kind of like leaving the heat set just high enough to keep your water pipes from freezing when you go on vacation, or leaving a nightlight on in an unused room.:D

As we have debated "higher levels of consciousness" in the past, I have also refered to mankind's evolution as being the key to reaching such levels, although never in any great detail. I see men like Einstein, DeVinci, and most others who have been labeled as "genius", in both science and the arts, as possibly being examples of a brain mutation that simply did not pass on to the next generation. It would be interesting to see the level of electrical activity in the brains of these individuals while they were creating their great works!

The physical human form has many limitations that evolution/ mutation could someday overcome as well, but it's the mental limitations that I focus my thoughts on today.

A brief interjection pertaining to a TV program I just watched regarding "God v Satan". Sorry swede, there was no mention of a designer, intelligent or otherwise...[}:)] The part I am underlining is the comparison of Christianity/ Catholosism, Judism and Islam and so many similarities. The biggest difference, was that Jews don't believe that Christ was the son of God! Aside from that, very similar and nothing I could see starting a war over.

quoting swede:

"Cit PeopleS:

"Perhaps there will come a day when science is able to figure out a nice neat formula to explain "everything", but I don't foresee it happenning, at least anytime soon."

Science will have to redefine its parameters first. Already as it is now, science has big problems, because a lot of the present work is done through abstract mathematics, sometimes bordering on the esoteric, which is very difficult to test experimentally. IF humanity survives, there future will see panels of philosophers, scientists, theologians, practical mystics etc. working together like we're modestly doing here on this thread. Robert Anton Wilson is one of my ideals, who propagated such an attitude."

Ahhhhhhhh!!!!!!! This is part of the problem with scientists. EGO!!! Each wants to be THE genius who figures it out, and they simply won't collaborate for this reason. Each wants to have his/ her own theory and not acknowledge the work of their peers as being viable. I'm not sure if Einstein and Oppenheimer ever worked side by side, but as we all know, it was a combination of their work and a few others that led to the splitting of the atom. If a few of our modern day "mutant brained" scientists could put egos aside and work together, they just might get real close to finding an answer to their questions.

As for my thoughts on swede's "close encounter"... Again, I have to say that as much as I admire you, I feel you are limited by your own basic programming, just as I would be. I honestly believe that you had some sort of unusual experience. But, the mind will tend to perceive things the eyes see in a way it can understand as to not allow itself to be overwhelmed by sensory input overload!

Perhaps, you had a brief experience of the lights coming on in one of the rooms in the other 90% of your brain?

swede
02-06-2009, 07:28 PM
Hi PeopleS,

this is getting interesting. Any misunderstandings, ...the fault is mine. I've recently had so many balls in the air at the same trime, that it may be difficult to see any pattern in it. But there is a pattern, and I intend to tie up the knot soon. And I apologise for the sometimes lecture-like style in my posts; when I try to be 'deep', I tend to be pedantic and longwinded.


Cit PeopleS:

"Hey guys! swede, ole buddy, you surprise me by having seemed to place limitations on human evolution/ mutation to the physical and relegating this to "sheepwalking"!!! Keep in mind that mutation is far from automatic and if the use of "free will" to expand ones mind were truly possible beyond the limitations that exist, don't you think that a man such as yourself would have "willed" himself to be more aware of what everything really is?"

Ofcourse I distinguish between a/ the evolution created by survival of the fittest, where a biological being has a certain spectre of intrinsic genetic possibilities, where the least strong individuals are weeded out, and b/ mutation, which happens by anomalies in the surroundings, like a sudden burst of new radiation.

Concerning the possibilities of making a CONSCIOUS 'evolution' (I'm not talking about growing an extra arm, but rather more of the 'mind' aspect), it was my intention to make a post exclusively about this. For now I will only say, that it IS possible. Something I have demonstrated for myself in my own life. (Mind you, I'm still far from perfect, there's a long way to go. But I can see changes in me.)

The key to this is the tired old clichee: 'The whole is greater than the sum of the parts.' I will concentrate one of my next posts on this.

Your next paragraph, about human brain capacity, I agree with. The idling 90% is a potential, which probably could be activated to a high degree, if we started to function properly. That will also be part of my future post.

As to the TV program you mentioned, it's not so strange, that christianity, judaism and islam are similar. They have the same roots and commonly are put together under the name Abramic (Abraham) religions. Even inside each of these three different varieties there are strong secterian conflicts, often violent. Centrally organised and doctrinal religion can be a terrible thing, just like political or economical ideologies. As we can see clearly, our leaders don't need much of an excuse to start fighting.

Cit PeopleS:

"If a few of our modern day "mutant brained" scientists could put egos aside and work together, they just might get real close to finding an answer to their questions."

Such scientists do exist, but they have be careful not to offend the pandits, who decide on what is dogmatically correct in science (research grants, university positions etc. Academicia is a very hierachial world). Besides you can be a scientific genious in your own field, but be a total moron one step away. My favorite example is one of the leading experts on quantum-gravity, who's a devoted follower of 'scientism'. And while he's brilliant concerning quantum-gravity, he hasn't got an inkling of scientific epistemology or logic. He'll start arguments on the level of stupidity, you would expect of a 'flat earth'er' or similar, to prove his doctrines of all-and-alone-knowing science from the 18th century.

I'm occasionally debating on some sites, where we have guys, who have advanced scientific educations and sharp minds. These individuals make an honest effort to expand science, so it can meet both theology, philosophy and 'para-normal' phenomena for unified answers. Without in any way succumbing to unsound ideas.

Cit PeopleS:

"I honestly believe that you had some sort of unusual experience. But, the mind will tend to perceive things the eyes see in a way it can understand as to not allow itself to be overwhelmed by sensory input overload!"

We are of one mind in this. But it does raise an interesting problem: As my encounters (unusual for many close encounters) are done with my ordinary level of consciousness (ofcourse with enhanced/expanded senses), AND the things and beings I experience are as distinct and defined as any part of my ordinary life, AND there is causality (cause and effect) in what I sense, AND that I can communicate in a meaningful, if unusual, way (as I would with anybody from a very different culture or species). THEN the truth-evaluation of what's 'real' and what's 'unreal' could be turned around, and I could start questioning, if my 'ordinary' experiences aren't illusions also. There's no difference in the sensory input or perceptive outcome.

"In the night I dreamed, that I was a butterfly. Then I woke up, and discovered I was a human. Now I don't know, if I'm a human, who dreamed he was a butterfly, or a butterfly who dreams he's a human".

PeopleSmoks
02-06-2009, 08:39 PM
Hey guys! Misunderstandings happen in life, and they happen here. The difference is that we aren't about to send 100,000 of our boys and girls off to prove we're right!!!!!![B)]

quote swede:

"Ofcourse I distinguish between a/ the evolution created by survival of the fittest, where a biological being has a certain spectre of intrinsic genetic possibilities, where the least strong individuals are weeded out, and b/ mutation, which happens by anomalies in the surroundings, like a sudden burst of new radiation."

Again, I feel a need to clarify what I mean by evolution and mutation. What you refer to in the above, in the first instance being more of a case of "natural selection". In this, a species can become stronger both physically, and to some extent mentally, but is limited to what is the "best" of what already exsists. The definition of "mutation" as I refer to it, is merely a leap acrooss natural evolutionary bounds and not necessarily brought about by an external force such as strange radiation.

Evolution, in my eye, is the slow, natural process of a species to (hopefully) become better in some way. And yes, natural selection is a part of it to some degree. But, the question must be asked, "If natural selection was the only part, why did mankind evolve into what we have today instead of simply becoming faster, stronger, smarter apes??? There must be something more.

I don't believe that an individual can just decide to "will" him/ herself to acheive a higher level of consciousness, but rather to open his/ her mind to what he/ she is already capable of, but never realized it, or has not been able to find the key to open that particular door and turn on the light!

Here's one for you, equate turning that light on in that dark room in your mind to... drum roll please... "ENLIGHTENMENT"!!!!!

Hey, maybe we all have the abilty now, but don't know how to turn on the light? My thinking is that through the evolutionary process, eventually, nature will flip the switch for us! Maybe then, we'll be able to use 20% of our brains? And, in another 10,000 years, nature will turn on the light in the next room of our brains? And so on and so on...

But, even the first light being turned on for us by nature would be something that takes place over decades, if not centuries until all of mankind reaches that level of consciousnes.

Mutation in this respect is for a sudden turning on of several lights at once in a massive number of newly born humans!:D No irradiating of embryos needed.[:o)]

As to your experience, I see it as a flicker of the light being turned on. You saw things that are as real as I am, but the light went out again. Maybe you're closer than we know?

swede
02-06-2009, 10:40 PM
Cit PeopleS:

"If natural selection was the only part, why did mankind evolve into what we have today instead of simply becoming faster, stronger, smarter apes??? There must be something more."

A scientific, cosmological theory I find very attractive, 'the strong anthropic principle', is a very reasonable answer. It means, that just as the initial conditions of the universe manifested what is known as 'natural laws', it's also an intrinsic part of the initial conditions of the universe to eventually bring forth complexity. E.g. what we call life (on this planet or in this dimension biological 'life'. Possibly non-biological elsewhere, complexity isn't necessarily a bio-chemical phenomena).

And as intellect is a good survival tool in the competition between complex beings (and furthermore MAYBE has a role for creating negative enthropy), it could in other words be part of the 'design'.

Cit PeopleS:

"Evolution, in my eye, is the slow, natural process of a species to (hopefully) become better in some way."

'Better' measured how? In some cultures it used to be 'good' to eat your enemies, because it would make you stronger, more able to defend your clan.

Cit PeopleS:

"I don't believe that an individual can just decide to "will" him/ herself to acheive a higher level of consciousness, but rather to open his/ her mind to what he/ she is already capable of, but never realized it, or has not been able to find the key to open that particular door and turn on the light!"

It's like the hen or the egg. Which came first. It's quite possible, that higher consciousness is a latent potentiality. But pragmatically the methods for acchieving it will be the same. We still have to 'do' something, if even only a readjustment of the existing 'parts'.

Cit PeopleS:

"Hey, maybe we all have the abilty now, but don't know how to turn on the light?"

We're all Buddhas, but we don't know it. To get to know it, will then be the trick.

Cit PeopleS:

"As to your experience, I see it as a flicker of the light being turned on. You saw things that are as real as I am, but the light went out again. Maybe you're closer than we know?"

In Asia my experiences are described as a side-product of spiritual training. They are there called 'siddhies', and are quite common experiences. They are considered (at best) quite valueless, a blind alley, seen from a spiritual point of view. If they are regarded with awe, as the new-agers tend to do, and mistaken for spirituality, they will stop further true spiritual growth.

And if you don't know how to relate to them properly (as I don't), they can be potentially damaging.

It's getting late here, so hopefully: See you tomorrow.

PeopleSmoks
02-07-2009, 04:29 AM
Hey guys! I'll return to current discussion tomorrow right along with you swede. In the meantime, I thought I'd share this with you all. This is my admittedly too young Olga and yours truly at the sushi restaurant where my delicious Ukrainian devushka got me to try uncooked fish. I think it might have actually been pretty good if it had been seared, baked, broiled, or deep fried!:D

http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp335/PeopleSmoks/IMG025-Copy.jpg

Damn I'm getting gray on my chinny-chin-chin. Might be time for some "Just For Men" hair color for beards and mustaches?;)

scamfree
02-07-2009, 05:38 AM
Hey swede, il tell you more but about it later but im pretty shore you have to close the portal or they come back with you.
Smokes thats a hot one. Good luck.
But guys on the scamming scene ive cracked a big one in Australia.
A few days ago i seen a new scammer posted Inna from Ukraine translation scam,stolen photos of former miss universe Jennifer Hawkins 2004,Australias girl next door sweetheart,the whole contry loves her too bits.
I did my homework,hmm report was shim was on rbrides i checked not there email must be hot,moved sites.Checked datemefree,got the scammers profile active.
My next move was to contact major tv program.Bingo ive got the hottest media story going around,in Australa..
The promos have hit the media now,main story going to air Monday night,
Stop-scammers is going to get alot of media,as the good guys,as for datemefree,your going to get what you deserve im just hoping US media picks it up.
Well im all over the media as well,that part im not too shore i want,hope it does not come back too bite my ass,But it does feel good to expose these pricks.
Il keep you guys informed

PeopleSmoks
02-07-2009, 10:17 AM
Hey guys! scamfree, my heart felt congratulations on a job well done!!! Our old friend elenag (The Russian Detective) would be proud. Unfortunately, a story like that probably will never be seen here in the US. Apparently, not news worthy here. More than a year ago, elenag and I, as well as a few others (elenag was the ring leader, began a letter writing campaign hoping for some coverage on FSU/ MOB scamming to various US news agencies with no success. Probably the only way I'll see anything from the land down under, or anyone from the US for that matter, is if it ends up on a You Tube video.[V] And the closest I've seen to FSU/ MOB scamming was two slavic girls attempting to pperform drunk gymnastics, and one doing a full frontal face plant... OUCH!!![:0]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsM_Bwcy-DM

Probably Polish![B)] No, not because of what they did, but listen to the countdown.

But, I digress... I said in the RBrides thread that if you are writing to a girl, and find her on RBrides, she's a scammer! RBrides and Datemefree... Haaaahahahahahaha! Ahhhahahahahahahaha! Hahaha! Ha!!![:o)]

scamfree
02-07-2009, 12:58 PM
People smokes
Hey buddy, i think youv'e lost touch with reality, most scammers these days come from the US. So i think you should hunt out some of your coussins and teach them how to do it the right way. Here in Australia mate we look after each other. So i would say mate have a look at your own closet. Were doing heaps better than the US at the moment. US is the scam capital of the world at the moment!!!

scamfree
02-07-2009, 01:05 PM
So HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA deal with your own country smokes![8D]

swede
02-07-2009, 01:44 PM
I'll try to make my recent posts into a coherent pattern, and for this purpose I'll use a car as an allegory to a human being.


As PeopleS and I can verify (we are both mechanics), a failure in one of a car's components will usually lead to failures in other components also. A stuck brakepad will eventually ruin the brakedisc and later the wheelbearings. Most parts of a car are interactive with each other, and a functional car requires all components in good condition.


And: A complete set of car-components in mint condition isn't a functional car. They have to be assembled. This is what I meant in my former post, when I cited 'The whole is greater than the sum of the parts'. The whole is an assembled car, which is something very different from (even a complete) set of car-components lying around in a pile.


A human being functions this way also. Our parts must be in working order, and they must be correctly connected to each other. If such a condition doesn't exist, we are at best only the sum of our parts, not our whole (which is more).


(You could say, that this interaction of components is a kind of symbiosis. They work together, they don't compete with each other).


Even the best of 'sheepwalkers' will never be more than the sum of their parts, whereas the 'awakened', enlightened, realised, transcendent or god-experiencing (choose according to personal theology) person will be a 'whole'.


The 'sum of the parts' in a person is the sheepwalking ego, the 'whole' (if achieved) is the essense, the soul, Nirvana (whatever). And from the sum to the whole is a qualitative, dimensional 'mind' jump. Or a quantum jump.


PeopleS, to return to latent potentials in a human being: The 'sum of the parts' is a potential 'whole'. So we ARE all Buddhas, and we don't know it. But it requires a nudge to make the change from 'sum' to 'whole', from being 'potential' to 'the real thing'.



Ofcourse an allegory is an allegory, it doesn't PROVE anything, it's only for making it easier to get the idea. And for those who've never made this transition from 'sum' to 'whole', it can be difficult to accept the idea. Yes, ofcourse as as an abstract idea it's reasonable, and when it comes to cars, it's a fact. But for little ME, who has never experienced such a monumental shift in my mind, this is just so many words. And in any case, why should I bother to chase still another idea promising ultimate answers.


Well, that's what the average answer would be to my ideas, but a considerable amount of people have taken such suggestions seriously and followed them up through historical time. Quite a few of them reaching to the stage of mind-quantum-jumps. Is this verification or not? I think this depends on the individual. If you want to go on this journey, something inside you tells you to do so, and motivates you while doing it.


Buddha, Jesus and all of that crowd tried it, and while very few are interested in repeating these 'avatars' (sorry about that) experiences for themselves, most seem to be happy to listen to their words, without understanding anything.


Strange world or universe we live in.


Just one or two posts on this, and I will stop frothing around the mouth or uttering prophesies. Then I will be very down to earth and pragmatic.

scamfree
02-07-2009, 02:42 PM
thats the facts Swede the good old USA of america is the new scam cap of the world

PeopleSmoks
02-08-2009, 12:06 AM
Hey guys! swede, I'm really not sure where you're going with this? First, I want to clarify that when speaking of evolution/ mutation, I refer to mental ability more than the physical being. To try to associate what I was talking about to your car anaolgy, with mankind being the car, all the parts are there, properly assembled and operating satisafactorily.

In fact, there are some really neat goodies under the hood, but mankind doesn't know they're there. The onboard computer has several "power" chips that are installed and a super charger, but they're not turned on, and can't be turned on by the driver. The manufacturer has installed "timers". The timers will eventually turn on the chips and super charger in sequence and over a period of time that only the manufacturer knows.

This was done because the manufacturer determined it could be dangerous for the driver to be given to much power too soon, but he knows the driver will someday be able to handle it.

Evolution would, in this scenario, be turning on each chip, one at a time over a lengthy period. Mutation would be like turning everything on at once. The driver has absolutely NO say over when or how much is turned on.

I see the human brain as having all the capacity to acheive the highest levels of conscioussness and/ or enlightenment, but we need to have these parts of our brain turned on for us. I see this happenning as a natural part of man's evolution. There are those who have said similar things, except they also infer that with the added brain power, our bodies will lose bulk as it will no longer be necessary to perform physical labor... Basically, they say we will evolve into the basic ET gray that we have all seen depicted.

I strongly disagree with this line of thought however. To reference some of the beliefs of the eastern religions, I believe mankind will come to train the body as well as the mind and that our general condition will improve, because of our mental growth and not as a seperate evolutionary occurance.

Now, as I have also left room in my line of thinking for the geniuses of the world. Mutation. These are people who were born with an extra chip turned on and because of this, are able to do things that most can not. I say it's a mutation, because their abilities are not necessarily passed on to their progeny.

Regarding the enlightenment of so many monks and priests of various eastern religions, they tell me that there is hope for mankind, and maybe be the frontline in our next evolutionary step. Okay, these kinds of people have been around for 5,000 years... evolution is a very slow process!!! However, it can be questioned that Buddist enlightenment isn't such a big leap forward considering the fact that it's a bit of a "boys only club".

scamfree, the fact that the US is scam central is nothing new. It started with Boris and Natasha, but now it's Steve and Natasha! I refer to a US citizen and his real FSU bride who were busted not too long ago. Also, most of the "pay" sites have offices, if not their headquarters in the US. Scamming is a great stay at home career for the amateur Harlequin novelist!

I wasn't making disparaging comments about Australia. Merely stating that when a girls pics are on both RBrides and DMF, it's a safe bet she/ he is a scammer and that checking those sites is just about the equivelant of checking on any anti-scam site.:) In fact, RBrides is so bad that I have seen at least two girls in particular, who had two profiles running at the same time. Both using different names, addresses and physical stats. I wrote to RBrides to complain and it took them three weeks to remove the profiles... two weeks later, the one scammer was back with a new name, address, etc...[V]

swede
02-08-2009, 05:11 PM
PeopleS,

we're more or less in accordance on most points. I can take your opinions of evolution, and it seems, that you also accept the extra option: The hidden or unmanifested potential in us. What you call the 'power chips'. In my opinion you and I are talking about the same, namely the inbuild extra potential for complex beings.

So far so good, but at this point I raise the question: An omnipotent and postulated benevolent creator, creating complex beings, who through pain and misery must evolve to something 'higher' or 'better' !! If this creator can create a universe with such intricate mechanisms, it should be child's play to base it on symbiosis instead of predation.

'Mysterious ways' or not, no-one (even a creator) in his/her right mind would choose the option of predation, UNLESS this creator isn't omnipotent and therefore either is sadistic or have been forced by 'rules' mightier than him/herself.

Science points to the last possibilty. Complexity can very well be a necessity to prevent enthropy. It will 'locally' (in certain areas of the universe) prolong universal manifestation going on. And talking about omnipotence on the behalf of the creator, the method of locally created negative enthropy is a highly uneconomically method. It will slow down enthropy in some areas, but as a result hasten enthropy in the rest of the universe. Not very bright or omnipotent.

There's one more aspect on this. You mention the risk of misuse, if our potential higher powers are activated. According to my postulate of the necessity of positive emotions as a triggering factor in enlightenment, it means, that only 'good guys' can achieve enlightenment.

Sure, people can mess around with occult forces, and if morally corrupt use these for socalled 'black magic', but this is something way below enlightenment (but strangely enough NOT so difficult to achieve as enlightenment).

As to the deterministic versus free will possibilities of activating our potential 'powers', enlightenemt isn't an on/off situation. It's a slowly growing process, where the amount of enlightenment increases, while the sheepwalking diminishes. And such a gradual development is inside the reach of the average human being, if s/he chooses to use it. Even starting with a minimal amount of enlightenment, all of us have this seed for later growth. And the process is exponential.

Buddhist enlightenment isn't an exclusive male phenomena, and f.ex. in mahayana you'll find some female characters having Boddhisatva (compassionate world-saviour) status.

Another subject: Whan I was actively net-dating some years ago, I took a general survey of the numerical amount of net-daters from various countries. And (considering populationsizes), US was without doubt over-represented. My personal opinion on this is, that the very strange mainstrean US culture makes it impossible for americans to relate to each other in a functional way (and therefore looks for 'romantic' answers elsewhere), and secondly that american women seem to be considered slightly sacrosanct (not least by themselves), being of a superiour species, and not accountable or responsible to any rules of decent behaviour. So I'm inclined to agree with Scamfree in his criticism of US.

PeopleSmoks
02-08-2009, 07:53 PM
Hey swede!

To quote swede:"

'Mysterious ways' or not, no-one (even a creator) in his/her right mind would choose the option of predation, UNLESS this creator isn't omnipotent and therefore either is sadistic or have been forced by 'rules' mightier than him/herself."

Two words... 'Free will'.

There are an infinite number of paths from point A to point B, with an infinite number of choices to be made as to how to get there, both as individuals, and as a race. We are simply being given free will as to the path we choose in our journey.

In some ways, we are like Dr Martin Luther King Jr, in that, you and I may not get there, but we believe that we as a people will.

Here's one to ponder... 'The End of Days'. Is it doomsday, or the day in which all of mankind has finally evolved to a level of consciousness where we ascend to the level of our creator and the physical world ends for us? Hmmmmmm?

It was written that God created man in his own image. But, maybe he realized that to gain such knowledge as he possessed in one fell swoop would cause insanity? Think about it.

Question. Why do you have such a fascination with symbiosis? Symbiosis in some ways, could be the worst thing to happen. Needing or relying on others can be detrimental. Should one fail, all may fall. Not necessarily a good thing.

It may be that preditory insticts are easier to break than such dependence? Think of drug dependency. There comes a point with some drugs when there is a real physical need for the chemical and to not get it can actually bring about death.

Look at plants. Insects get food from plants and plants need insects and/ or wind to pollinate and reproduce. No insects or wind, and most species of plant become extinct. The wind won't really do it on it's own, and we depend on plants for oxygen.

To quote swede:

"There's one more aspect on this. You mention the risk of misuse, if our potential higher powers are activated. According to my postulate of the necessity of positive emotions as a triggering factor in enlightenment, it means, that only 'good guys' can achieve enlightenment."

Reaching true enlightenment and the level that mankind is currently calling enlightenment are really two different things. True enlightenment being that which will allow us to understand (everything), as opposed to the level currently obtainable by Budhism for example. I see that level as a step in the right direction, but not the end of the journey. Remember, they still have problems with women and I hope you see that there's some room for improvement on that line of thought. This is why I don't consider them to be "truly enlightened".

Also, there are a couple of other thoughts to this point. One being, give a five year old a gun, he/ she shoots and kills his/ her mother. Bad or evil kid? Or someone who was handed a power they didn't understand or fully realize the consequences of using? The other, is the "evil genius". There was a mass murderer in the US named Ted Bundy. I think his IQ was above 180? Different powers to be abused in different ways... different kinds of chips...

As for US men and women... Far too many woman here have developed the assumption that their sh!t don't stink!!! As with all things, there are multiple levels of this, but it exsists in most of them. Guys like me are sick and tired of being treated like floor mats and with the onset of web dating, we began to look around passed our own neighborhoods for a good woman. Yea, there are also plenty of @sshole guys out here too.

For guys like me, we may have started our searches on locally based sites, but through whatever happenstance ended up in the FSU/ MOB world. I've said it before and stick to it that the myths and propaganda presented by various FSU/ MOB sites is one hell of a hook! As to scamfree's criticism of the US, I don't see it as such. More of a statement that a lot of people here have seen the money to be made and are jumping on the scamming bandwagon so to speak.

swede
02-08-2009, 09:41 PM
Hi PeopleS,

we have formerly been at the point, where we defined symbiosis differently. Without insisting that my definition is the right one, it's the one I'm referring to, when I talk about symbiosis. For me it means a reciprocial exchange, where all parts benefit. A very good example is grass and clover growing together, each supplying something the other needs.

This is not to be confused with f.ex. that kind of social system, where some people unjustified surf on wellfare. We saw a lot of that in Scandinavia earlier, where people could walk into the wellfare office and declare, that they had no intention whatsoever of taking a job, but they had a legal right to economical support from the state. This has nothing to do with symbiosis at all.

My reasons for being enthusiastic about symbiosis are, that it altogether makes for less pain and suffering. I remember, when you once talked about your native american background, and gave examples of the atrocious ways, the white immigrants behaved. Using their idiotic religion as an excuse, and with the help of superiour weapons and number, the land was simply STOLEN from the indians. And later the abomination of slavery. Both of these are pure predation. The stronger fight down the weaker without mercy or compassion.

Besides predation is a very inefficient process, where a very big part of the available resources are totally wasted on the conflicts between competing parts. This can be seen from a global perspective, with wars; to nations, with internal powergrabbing; to business, where departmentalism can destroy a company from the inside; and even down to individual human psychology, where most of us are more or less at war with ourselves, and thus wasting a lot of energy, we could use better on other things.

And PeopleS, we all depend completely on our surroundings. E.g. none of us would last very long without food. The options are to take what we need by force, or to try to make fair exchanges.

Cit PeopleS:

"Look at plants. Insects get food from plants and plants need insects and/ or wind to pollinate and reproduce. No insects or wind, and most species of plant become extinct. The wind won't really do it on it's own, and we depend on plants for oxygen."
That's another example of symbiosis. I can only agree.

Cit PeopleS:

"Reaching true enlightenment and the level that mankind is currently calling enlightenment are really two different things. True enlightenment being that which will allow us to understand (everything), as opposed to the level currently obtainable by Budhism for example. I see that level as a step in the right direction, but not the end of the journey."

I know with some certainty, what true enlightenment is, both theoretically and practically (though I'm not always able to stay in this pleasant state for long periods), and for me, there's only one kind. Quite a few religions have methods, which can lead to this, if their practical methods are followed. But like with almost anything else, enlightenment can be faked in various ways.

I have for years had close contact with members of the danish tibetan buddhism congregation, and there seem to be considerably less sex-'discrimination' there than in many christian groups.

Enlightenment isn't about getting 'power', as if it was some mind or spiritual extension of a superman philosophy.

PeopleSmoks
02-08-2009, 09:50 PM
And now for another exciting installment of the ongoing saga... "My Three Olgas"... brought to you without commercial interuption by the fine folks at UALadys where the motto is, "Haney rocks!!!"

It's been a lousy passed few weeks here at Stately Smoks Manor. You see, I learned a valuable , if not expensive lesson. It came about because my dear friend swede has often criticized the manner in which I have handled my three Olgas in the past by allowing them to run wild and free with a minimal amount of overseeing from the more than capable Frau Eva Hindenberg. So, I made the mistake of attempting to train them. Did I say mistake?

It all started a few months ago... Despite the sometimes bitter cold, my three Olgas have always gravitated to the cement pond like a solar system caught in the death grip of a black hole. Okay... they really weren't hurting anything, and the way they huddled together, their teeth chattering and N.E.R.T.S standing to spectacular attention with that glass cutting look about them, well... It was actually kind of cute. And Prada never hurt anyone really...

But, on the advise of good ole swede, I put an end to their seemingly ridiculous ways and placed limits on their activities. Did I say mistake?

Unlike Prometheus' FSU bride, my three Olgas have been more of the hap-hazzard destructive nature, as opposed to blatantly vendictive. Boy, was I ever in for a treat!!! Guys, never mistake the cute little, mostly harmless, almost whimsical nature of your FSU honey for anything more than it is, because if you can't deal with that little slice of heaven, the dark side of the force is so much worse!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was cut off completely! No more Olga on Olga on Olga pillow fights while wearing nothing but a smile with video playback, jello wrestling (while wearing nothing but a smile), pole dancing complete with complimentary lap dance (while wearing... You get the picture). Now for a brief intermission while we close our eyes and savor the picture in our heads!

Okay, I'm back... No more playing 'Oops I dropped my Prada handbag and despite wearing a very short skirt and no panties, but I feel the need to pick it up straight legged, bending only at the waist.'[:p] No more 'We were out by the pool in -10 degree weather and need to be warmed up by extensive bodily generated friction!!! Oh, did I mention the thing about having made a mistake? Well, it gets better... (worse)

Yup, I cut off the Prada. Turns out that Versace has more stuff and more $$$ to get it. I think I mentioned the mistake thing???

Well, to cut to the chase. After tedious negotiatios, I have regained my rightful place at the top of the food chain here at Stately Smoks Manor.

Olga on Olga on Olga action... yea baby! Oops I dropped my Prada is replaced by Oops I dropped my Versace... But the rest is as it should be... except for the small detail that I'm writing this while sitting by my new $2.5 million indoor, inground swimming pool.

Thanks swede!;)

PeopleSmoks
02-08-2009, 10:57 PM
Hey swede! You'll have to explain the symbiosis between grass and clover to me. Seems to me they are in competion for the same air, soil and water?

Welare people who refuse to work aren't symbiotic, but more parasitic in my view.

To quote swede:

"...where most of us are more or less at war with ourselves, and thus wasting a lot of energy, we could use better on other things."

And, it will be the resolution of such inner conflicts that will allow us to grow, not by engaging in a symbiotic relationship of needs. Think of this, for symbiosis to work, both or all involved do it out of need because they lack something that another can provide. But, if a relationship is entered into by two complete and independent entities, which is stronger. Those who are feeding off each other out of need or those who are not in need and are prepared to really give to each other? Easy math like the genius science folk like to use... Symbiote A (2/3) + symbiote B (2/3) = 1 1/3. Complete person A (1) + complete person B (1) = 2. Easy to see the stronger pairing.

Besides, symbiosis is in some ways not very different from predition, only instead, both are feeding of each other. As you agree with my example of insect/ plant symbiosis, you don't acknowledge the problem. If one goes, the other goes also. They can't survive independently. That's not good.

To quote swede:

"I know with some certainty, what true enlightenment is, both theoretically and practically (though I'm not always able to stay in this pleasant state for long periods), and for me, there's only one kind."

Perhaps what I mean by enlightenment v true enlightenment is lost. As I try to explain, what I see as enlightenment is that which is presently obtainable by corporial man. A sense of well-being, peace, and a small insight into what is possible. What I mean by "true" enlightenment is possibly the final step in man's evolution... a step mankind will obtain only at the end of our journey and just prior to our ascention to the plain of exsistense of the creator, ID, maybe not so intelligent D, God, Allah, etc etc... or maybe there's another word for it that I should be using?

Sounds like the Danish Tibetan Buddhists have it more together than the ones on the mountain in Tibet!

I never said anything about enlightenment being about getting "power" in the context of wealth, strength or superhuman. Mental power yes, in a way. having the ability to reason and know the answers. Not needing, but only wishing to share. But then again, what is superhuman? Having abilities that other humans don't? But, if we all evolve to a state in which we all possess such mental 'strength' (power) it's not so super any longer, but common.

Oh, and I was just busting your stones about you being the cause of my Olga troubles.;) A man's gotta take responsibility for his own action... It's just that a guy does something obviously stupid, it's easier to try to blame someone else.[B)][:o)]:D[8D]

swede
02-09-2009, 10:57 PM
Replying to your next-to-last post, PeopleS, I think a/ that the Olgas are not the one(s) for you, or b/ that your methodic isn't sufficient.

(You could reconsider the opinion, that people are not only products of genetics or social conditioning).

My marriage has now been re-established by using a firm hand (so to speak, not talking about physical actions). A 'take it or leave it' option from me.

PeopleSmoks
02-09-2009, 11:50 PM
Hey swede! Point taken. Things have settled down a bit here at Stately Smoks Manor over the past few days. I returned the guidance of the Olgas to the more than capable charge of Frau Eva Hindenberg several days prior to making the above posting, with better than satisfactory results thus far.

Let's face it, my three Olgas weren't hurting anyone huddled by the almighty swimming pool in the snow. As I said before, it IS kind of cute! Well, I gotta go. Alfred just pulled up with the Olgas in the Bentley. They went shopping at Victoria's Secret and I was promised a little private fashion show when they got home.[:0][:p]:D[}:)][8D]

swede
02-10-2009, 09:00 AM
Cit PeopleS:

"And, it will be the resolution of such inner conflicts that will allow us to grow,......."

I go along with the logic of that, no objections. But it seems to me, that this hinges on the assumption, that growth is 'good'. Because growth is an intrinsic part of evolution (or vice versa), it doesn't mean it's automatically good, unless some evidence of goodness in the whole universal process is provided.

Even basic assumptions must pass some test of validity, because a seemingly logic conclusion will be fals, if it's based on a false assumption. This is why science inside its own field is so successfull, and doctrinal religion such a catastrophe.

The evidence of suffering in complex beings from the evolutionary process is obvious and can be seen by anyone, but sofar I've never met any rational or experienced evidence for the idea, that evolutionary growth should be 'good', except the vague 'mysterious ways' model (which is a theological construction, based on 'faith' alone).

Besides the way this growth manifests, opens the question, whether the final outcome WILL be 'good' in any case (as considered from a normal, survival point of wiev).

As one group of evolutionary competitors evolve, so will the others, and the competition will only accelerate until the methods used will be so advanced or encompassing, that there's a big risk, that there will be no winners, because everybody can destroy everybody. Either in open conflict or by one of the parts functioning like a virus and destroying the host, it's feeding on, and thereby killing itself also.

We are almost at this point now, human behave like a virus, and we are well on our way to destroy the ecology of our planet completely for thousands of years in the future. What shall we do next; rape another planet?

I'm not suicidically inclined, but honestly I hope, that when the final countdown comes, 'nature' will do us in, before we have killed everything else.

Even in the unlikely situation of the survival of both humanity and Gaia together, the growth model still has some rather unpleasant consequences. Take e.g. economy. The basic idea in capitalism clearly says, that an annual minimum of 4% growth must exist. Without this 4% growth, the system will eventually collapse. If we redistributed the existing production and stopped wasting money on idiotic things, we could save ourselves, the planet and give everyone a reasonable existence. I'm NOT talking about a sharing out on idealistic socialist principles, there would still be rich and poor. I'm talking about big money making even more money by 'beep'ing with peoples' lives, either through economical manipulation or by brute force.

Example of interference (apart from starting wars to sell weapons etc): It is considered necessary for the capitalistc growth system to keep unemployment at a certain level (so as to entice people into competition). If this UNemployment level isn't existing 'naturally', efforts will be made to create it artificially, even if there in reality is work enough for everybody. The individuals suffering from this can just as well be hardworking, responsible citizens; not only lazy parasites.

Clover needs shade and 'protection' when it starts growing, grass will provide this at no cost for itself. When clover is established, it produces a surplus of nitrogen (extracted from the air), which benefits grass.

Happy to hear about the Olgas.

swede
02-10-2009, 11:59 AM
Cit PeopleS:

"Those who are feeding off each other out of need or those who are not in need and are prepared to really give to each other? Easy math like the genius science folk like to use... Symbiote A (2/3) + symbiote B (2/3) = 1 1/3. Complete person A (1) + complete person B (1) = 2. Easy to see the stronger pairing."

Considered from INSIDE the natural (universal) laws this must be considered in the light of something, which at first looks totally disconnected from the above: The second thermodynamic law (:stating that different levels of energy will eventually level out). Also known as enthropy. Enthropy is the major candidate for the termination of the universe.

All dynamics in the universe, and ESPECIALLY in complexity, are directed towards creating negative enthropy, i.e. stopping universal collaps from enthropy. This dynamic process aims at diversity (or separation), which is the opposite of enthropy.
It is quite correct, that a predatory relationship between diversified complexities (=different beings) SEEMS to give what PeopleS call 'the stronger pairing', but this is far from true.
I have already ad nauseam mentioned the suffering involved in predation, so now I will restrict myself to the other aspect of this way of producing negative enthropy/diversification through complexity. While it is true, that this process (as correctly demonstrated by PeopleS above) is qualitatively different from symbiosis, this qualitative difference lies not in the final amount or intrinsic value of thus created negative enthropy, but in the difference of time it takes to produce negative enthropy. Predation is quicker, that's all.

But what is more important is, that the overall result from the effort to create negative enthropy through diversification (later met either through predation or symbiosis) is an inefficient process. There will be some 'costs' in ther process (as in a car, where not all the energy is turned into
movement, but some simply lost), and the outgoing result from diversification as a negative enthropy producer is, that the universe as a whole will have accelerated enthropy from the diversification process.

Now the process of predation (in spite of its quicker results) produces more enthropy than symbiosis does. The 'friction' in predation is more costly than in symbiosis, like a car with unlubricated wheelbearings will draw more gas.

Considering the intelligent design theory, this could tell us something about the architect's grasp of universe designing. Obviosly s/he has created a universe, containing elements/principles where a race against time is necessary.

Complexity, complex life, could be no more than a mechanism to make an (inefficient) effort to slow down enthropy.

Such ideas are both present in science (I believe, it was Schroedinger or Heisenberg who proposed it) and also in certain theological/philosophical groups (Gurdjieff, Gnostics, sufism).

swede
02-10-2009, 01:12 PM
Maybe I'm overdoing it a bit today. By sending such a lot of writings, but also separating it into three different posts. My reason is, that this is the first time I've had a greater amount of energy for a long period, and that quite a few loose ends have been left unanswered. And I consider it more readable, if things are presented in separate posts. (Though there are obvious connections between them).

I have recently postulated that every single structure in the universe, big or small, has something asymmetric, unbalanced, missing (whatever) in it, and for a structure to be 'whole', this deficiency must be corrected.

I have further postulated, that for a human structure, a human being, the weak spot is our emotions. To become enlightened we must be whole, and to be whole we must have (positively) functioning emotions.

The primary function of human emotions (and the equalent on other levels) is to transmit signals/to create communication between body and intellect. (in other structures between matter and movement).

I know of three practical methods for eventually acchieving this:

Deep meditation (or whatever your religious system calls equalent activities).

Modified Tantric sex,

and religious devotion to higher powers. Not as an exclusive 'love'-religion, but as a supplement to all the other aspects of universal life. I do not know so much practically about this last method myself, but maybe Prometheus could supply some information.

As I a long time ago promised to get a bit more into detail about modified tantric sex, I believe, that now is a suitable moment.

M(odified) t(antric) s(ex) is a process, where the natural sexual instinct and energy is chanelled into a new form. It is based on the idea, that man and woman (I have only heterosexual experience, so I can't talk about different options myself) have somewhat different 'energies'/polarities. By harmonizing/balancing/exchanging these energies/polarities, both parts add symbiotically to the others possibility of 'wholeness'.


Practically this is done the following way. Instead of the usual sweaty performance, where mutual orgasm is the immediate aim (I have no problems doing this also), in mts you try to withhold (at least the male) orgasm as long as possible. If the female part is unable to get more than one orgasm in succession, she also withholds her orgasm as long as possible.

This should be a slow process, occasionally lasting hours, and it is important, that the physical sexual tension stays close to the point of orgasm. So some training and experimentation with positions can be necessary. The man on his back, with the woman riding him, is functional, but in my opinion not obligatory.

The idea is, that starting with a standard physical attraction, you enhance and amplify the energies/polarities implied. Tension can reach olympic heights this way, and it's tempting to surrender to orgasm. But it's important not to do so too early. Training will make it easier. This physical tension and strong amount of energy will seek a way out (if you don't have orgasm), and somewhere in this process, it will 'overflow' into the emotional parts of our existence (emotional center, if you like) and activate them. Possibly will even some of the physical energy be transformed into emotional energy, making the emotional experience even more intensive. You can get VERY, VERY close/emotionally intimate to your partner this way. Emotion is communication.

If you and your partner are normally functioning intellectually, you now have a situation, where body, emotions and intellect are active, energetic and function together. A big step closer to 'wholeness' (though not ultimate wholeness. Training makes the master). And can as such be used equalent to a meditation-method for acchieving higher consciousness.

The advantage is, that you are working TOGETHER with natural instincts (except about wiltholding orgasm) and it's altogether a very pleasurable experience. Those who have tried it, probably will agree when I say, that there's the same element of hightened awareness as with some mind-expanding chemicals, but in this case it's safer, cheaper, legal (sofar) and contains an added dimension of higher love.

And finally. In many (or almost every) of the orginal asian tantric sex systems, it's recommended, that the male dosn't have any orgasm at all. Personally I do not see any reason for this, and experiments and practical observations has shown me, that a male orgasm late in the process can be beneficial.

PeopleSmoks
02-10-2009, 05:32 PM
Hey swede! You've certainly been busy thinking and writing. I'll go through all this one post and one thought at a time...

To quote swede:

"But it seems to me, that this hinges on the assumption, that growth is 'good'."

We can look to our earthly predicesors for the answer to this. There are many new theories concerning the extintion of the dinosaurs which infer that it wasn't one big catastrophe that led to their demise, but rather a series of events. Keep in mind that 'growth' doesn't necessarily mean size and or girth. Mental growth doesn't mean gaining the knowledge to manipulate our environment, but to deal with the hand we are dealt.

Even if their is no devinity, what 'bad' could come from all of mankind possessing the knowledge and wisdom of the universe? My one assumption in the whole process being that having such mental ability allows us to understand right from wrong and the ability to choose correctly between the two. There would be no need for predition or symbiosis since each individual would be self capable. To believe otherwise, meaning that our destiny is evil, so be it. We will finally be able to destroy ourselves efficiently and end the insanity. Either way, the universe as a whole, wins!

Having a winner in the equation takes a counter productive assumption that preditory instinct will always control our path, and that the 'enlightened' state currently obtainable by some is merely an anomaly exclusive to the selected few, and will never be reached by humanity as a species. I prefer to take a more optimistic approach and hold to the hope that mankind is not doomed to failure.

Your references to current problems is really almost irrevevant to the evolutionary process, with evolution being something that occurs slowly and over a considerable period of time. True that being poor may cause mental stress in the individual, but that person has already evolved to his/ her fullest potenial. It's the next generation and the next and so on who either will or won't have one of the various 'chips' turned on and advance.

Only some toxins in our air and possibly malnutitrionwill alter this by altering the basic brain chemistry. it's also possible that through physical evolution, our bodies will adapt to our surroundings as they change.

To quote swede:

"Clover needs shade and 'protection' when it starts growing, grass will provide this at no cost for itself. When clover is established, it produces a surplus of nitrogen (extracted from the air), which benefits grass."

Yea, but once established, clover often overgrows the grass, blocking the sun and expands it's root structure out until it completely iradicates the grass.

swede
02-10-2009, 07:08 PM
Cit PeopleS:

"My one assumption in the whole process being that having such mental ability allows us to understand right from wrong and the ability to choose correctly between the two. There would be no need for predition or symbiosis since each individual would be self capable"

No disagreements here. I just pointed out the possible option of a third alternative to acchieve enlightenment apart from 'natural' evolution and mutation. And that this option is a conscious choice, and implies (in this case 'inner') symbiosis as part of the process GETTING there. Maybe this last point needs clarification.

Cit PeopleS:

"and that the 'enlightened' state currently obtainable by some is merely an anomaly exclusive to the selected few, and will never be reached by humanity as a species"

Concerning our present possibilities, the conscious acchievement of enlightenment seems to be reserved to the elected few. This is a sad pragmatic observation, and not an expression of elitism on my part. My guess is, that an optimistically estimated number of enlightened individuals on the planet at the present, doesn't exceed 50. Probably far less. And I'm not amongst them, in case anybody should get ideas.

Cit PeopleS:

"Your references to current problems is really almost irrevevant to the evolutionary process, ...."

When considering evolution in a normal historical perspective, you'd be right. But humanity has reached an anomaly by developing a doomsday technology it can't handle responsibly. Just one small, but significant example. Did you know, that the common honeybee, immensely important for pollinating, possibly is dying out at an alarming rate after having existed for eternities. Most likely dying out because of overuse of chemicals in farming.

Cit PeopleS:

"Yea, but once established, clover often overgrows the grass, blocking the sun and expands it's root structure out until it completely iradicates the grass."

Not on my farm (of 35 years of ecological farming) it doesn't. Left alone, clover and grasses (and for that sake some wild-sown weeds) get quite well along. Actually a soil with an exclusive or overabundant amount of clover gets 'clover-tired' and the clover will disappear by itself because of this. This is not the case on my fallow fields (with combined grass and clover), which are sometimes left untouched for five years at a time. Both the clover and grass seem to thrive together.

PeopleSmoks
02-10-2009, 07:13 PM
Next...

Your next post, again, seems to focus on which is better, predition or symbiosis? You also seem to assume that in order to obtain what I refer to as 'true enlightenment', involves one or the other. This is not the case. Mankind doesn't need to devoure anything to evolve to this state of being, and symbiotic inter-dependence is counter-productive to the journey toward 'true enlightenment'.

You over-complicate a simple matematical equation. Perhaps I could add a third equation to my theory? Symbiosis: 2/3 + 2/3 = 1 1/3. Prediton: (2/3 (the preditor, needing to consume) + 1/3 (the weaker prey) = 1) - 1/3 (the continuing need to consume manifests again leaving a void) = 2/3.

A complete individual, one who is truly enlightened can be 1 and stand alone, but when pared with another of his kind, are even stronger as they have no NEED to feed off each other, rather to share on a level where it is done for the sake of good. Again, this goes beyond monetary wealth or power.

To quote swede:

"I have recently postulated that every single structure in the universe, big or small, has something asymmetric, unbalanced, missing (whatever) in it, and for a structure to be 'whole', this deficiency must be corrected."

This kind of falls into one of my theories on the universe which I think I touched on a while ago. Beginning with "the big bang", the universe is expanding. New stars, solar systems and galaxies are constantly being formed to fill what's 'missing'. I also have a paradox that plexes me. "Infinite limitation". A true contradiction of terms!

Believe it or not, you've actually helped me with this problem! The answer is chaos!!! This allows me to place limits on the size of the universe, which is otherwise said to be infinite, but if it were already infinite, how could it expand? Where is it expanding to???Chaos, as being infinite, and not the universe, allows my theory of expansion and contraction, in which there comes a point in which the universe stops expanding and collapses back on itself to become a quantum singularity again and the whole damn thing starts over!!! Each restart, the universe expands a bit more before it begins to collapse again, on into infinitum.:D

Now, to make this relevant to what you said... The universe, can never be complete. As it expands and contracts, there will always be parts left unfinished. We however, a only an infintesimal part of this picture and are only one of the tiny parts that may reach compltetion before the next collapse.

As for human emotion, through the level of 'true enlightenment' that I speak, mankind will understand emotions on a higher level. A deeper self-awareness that will allow us to make the right choices as to how we act on our emotions and avoid negative consequences associated with our more negative emotions. Also, as a species, we will understand why and how not to envoke negative emotions in others. Unlike the Vulcans on 'Star Trek' (haven't referenced this show in a while), we won't supress our emotions. We will simply not go around pushing each other's buttons!

swede, I never really knew what you were talking about regarding MTS, but I guess you've kind of hit on my methods (when I feel like working a little). One of the things is the warm up.[:p] Sensory excitement can go a long way. It works best with women who have a lot of natural body hair. I'm sure you know what I mean. Scandanavian women have such very fine body hair that it's basically invisible. A light touch, that only contacts these hairs and not the skin can send shivers up a girls spine in a good way! Arms, stomach, neck, breasts, inner and outer thighs, but try not to actually touch the skin! And never go for the hot spot!!! Tease around it, but don't touch!!!!! She'll go crazy!!!!!!!!!!!![:0]:D

The part about her being on top is a multiple good thing. First of all, much less work for the guy and we can concentrate on holding back. Besides, with her on top, she can easily move around to find the right spot for her. Hey, it all feels good to us, right? When you know you girls responses to things, ie when she's about to have an orgasm, grab her and stop her. She will squirm like hell to try to finish. Timing is key here. Don't wait too long, but eventually, before she completely loses that feeling, let her go and give her a little help from the bottom. I read about this a while ago and have done it. It works. She'll have one hell of an orgasm. Often, after such a strong orgasm, it becomes very easy to give her another and another etc, in a short period of time. She'll think you're a GOD or at least a very Itelligent Designer![^] But I digress...........

PeopleSmoks
02-10-2009, 07:42 PM
Hey swede! My thoughts are that 'choice' is an option that we only have as far as the 'chips' that are presently turned on. I do not believe that we are capable of simply choosing to open that which is presently closed to us. I believe that many, if not all of us have the ability to reach some level of the 'enlightenment' presently experienced by the very few, but haven't chosen to do so for whatever outside stimulous. Again, this is NOT to say that we can simply "will" ourselves to the next level. We need to catch up to the level currently available.

As for doomday via nukes, very doubtful at this stage. Only the US and Russian are capable of wiping out mankind, and there are too many checks and balances in place to let that happen. Sure, China is a bit of a wild card, but I also think they are seeking equality rather than world domination through extermination.

India v Pakistan would be a global mess, but not a global killer. South Korea or a terror organization is the most likely to use nukes, but again, not enough to be a global killer. Generally, we could wipe out all life on earth, but after October 1962, too much has been done to prevent it.

As for the honey bees, yes, I'm very aware of the situation, thus my reference to the problems of symbiosis, stating insects in general and plant life relying on each other for survival. This to me, is a far more catastrophic problem than nukes.

You guys must have different clover than we have in the US.;)

swede
02-10-2009, 07:46 PM
Cit PeopleS:

"The answer is chaos!!!"
Happy to be of service, and this is the point, where theological and scientic cosmogonies agree, and together form a sensible and understandable theory. It actually answers a few more question, than you have taken up here.
The periodic cycles of the universe (contracting and expanding), may and may not be the correct answer. It's one competing theory amongst others, and answers to this depends on various unknown factors, as f.ex. the symmetry/asymmetry of original energies/principles in the starting singularity. Gravity is mentioned as a possible candidate for asymmetry.
I did understand your equation of 2/3 +2/3 etc, and I gave you, what I believed was an equally uncomplicated answer. Sorry if I failed in this, but never mind. I'm not out to start my own sect, so unsolved disputes doesn't topple my world.
Cit:

" Sensory excitement can go a long way."
It's sometimes described as alchemical psychological transmutation. It can create a perception-shift.

You certainly seemed to get worked up, while considering the technical aspects of mts. My own experience shows me, that anything getting you heated up sexually, only helps the final aim. That's one of my reasons not to ascribe completely to the sometimes more ritualistic, traditional forms of tantra. It has become institutionalised.

PeopleSmoks
02-10-2009, 08:34 PM
Hey swede! Something I forgot to mention in the expasion/ contraction theory, which can actually help it fit into religious lines... It has a beginning and an end. Alpha and Omega! It just happens to begin again and continue the same process while expanding just a bit more each time, which could make the scientist content?:D

I AM NOW TRULY ENLIGHTENED AND KNOW THE ANSWER TO THE UNIVERSE!!!!!

To quote swede:

"I did understand your equation of 2/3 +2/3 etc, and I gave you, what I believed was an equally uncomplicated answer. Sorry if I failed in this, but never mind. I'm not out to start my own sect, so unsolved disputes doesn't topple my world."

I'll have to reread your previous posts to try to better understand what you meant. Sorry if I missed it.

To quote swede:

"You certainly seemed to get worked up, while considering the technical aspects of mts."

Hey, with three Olgas scurring about all day, dressed as Olgas do, what do you expect from me? Actually, it's of my opinion that such sensory intimacy shouldn't be an everyday thing. Like anything it would become familiar and commonplace. A good ole fashioned boning can be a good uses of that extremely localized high blood pressure condition too.[:0][:o)]:D[8D]

swede
02-11-2009, 04:22 AM
It is hereby certified that:

Brother 'Sometimes Lubricated PeopleSmoks'

is now an initiate of Theoretical Non-transcendent Cosmic Consciousness

entitling him to function as a Tantric.


Father Superiour 'Past-Last-Sales-Date'

The Order of Approximative Truths

Prometheus
02-11-2009, 09:42 AM
quote:Originally posted by swede
[br]It is hereby certified that:

Brother 'Sometimes Lubricated PeopleSmoks'

is now an initiate of Theoretical Non-transcendent Cosmic Consciousness

entitling him to function as a Tantric.


Father Superiour 'Past-Last-Sales-Date'

The Order of Approximative Truths


I bought mine on Craigslist months ago Swede, but good try. LOL.

swede
02-11-2009, 09:59 AM
Prometheus,

I'm not so high in the hierachy of the brotherhood, but it's my impression, that Craigslist is just a front for the Order of Approximative Truths.

Being religious and all, you probably didn't need a period as an acolyte, so you could get your certificate immediately.

The Order of Approximate Truths is approximately everywhere and have ways to find out approximately everything. They would with approximately certainty have a dossier on you.

PeopleSmoks
02-11-2009, 12:59 PM
Hey guys! "Approximate Truth". Isn't that all that exisits when dealing in theory of any kind? Whether scientific or religious, all that anyone can do is try to come up with an answer to fill in the hole. Sometimes, the hole doesn't quite get completely filled in, but the answer was "approximately" able to fill the hole... Also know as, "It's close enough until someone else can do better theorization".:D

swede, thanks for the certification. I've often been told that I am certifiable! Usually by a judge!!![:0][:o)][8D]

A brief side note. Not sure if you've noticed the presence of ham2, but it IS our old comrade in babbling returned from the netherworld in a slightly new incarnation. Not sure why he hasn't rejoined our little semi-cerebral fray though?

As to my theory of "Infinite limitation", now all I need to do is find a mathematical formula to present to Stephen Hawking! Actually, I'm waiting to see my theory claimed by some other theoretic science hack on a Science Channel special. Well, gotta go. I have a thirty pack of liquid brain (beer) and a calculator waiting for me!:D

swede
02-11-2009, 03:35 PM
Hi PeopleS,

it's all that and more.

As human beings evolve into greater social and information complexity, we rely more and more on models based on assumptions, from where we evaluate what's up and down in existence and how to relate to it. E.g. religion, 'scientism', political/economical ideology, social co-census etc.

These models can be useful, if they are used with the reservation, that all of them after all are based on assumptions, and therefore contains elements of some uncertainty. Some assumptions are supported by control systems (experimentation, pragmatism etc), others are exclusively based on faith or personal inclination.

But NONE of our present assumption-based models of existence are so well supported, that they have any real claim to 'ultimate' truth or reality (and that reservation also includes the METHODOLOGY implied by various models).

Ofcourse this doesn't prevent the sheepwalking individual to defend his personal favourite model as THE truth, or for the power- and moneygrabbers to manipulate humanity through fanatic belief in one model or another. Hence (often unnecessary) religious, ideological, territorial or economical conflicts, enthusiastically accepted by the sheepwalking cannon-fodder.

'Approximative truth(s)' acknowledges the limitations of assumption-based models, and try to find 'mega'-answers. (This is possibly through creating new epistemological methods).

At the individual level this means new, and most likely better, ways for individual truth-seeking. Socially it means more tolerance (you can never be completely sure, that the model you fight for IS 100% correct. This takes some of the fun out of the fighting).

I must add, that it probably means, that we never arrive at ultimate truth (at least not as we are now), but we can get closer and closer to it. And that my above suggestions in NO way indicates a wimpy attitude, where everything is equally wrong or equally right, "So what the 'beeb'......nothing matters". There will still be values.

These thoughts are inspired by the american genius R.A. Wilson.

PeopleSmoks
02-11-2009, 07:20 PM
Hey swede!

To quote swede:

"I must add, that it probably means, that we never arrive at ultimate truth (at least not as we are now), but we can get closer and closer to it."

Once again, "...as we are now..." This touches on my thoughts of human evolution pertaining to the parts of the brain in which our full potential hasn't yet been realized. Thus, the reason I see it as a necessity that someday it must occur. Please understand that this belief comes in part from a scientic point of view as well as my person spiritual beliefs.

Science has always measure physical evolution and assumed that any mental advancement of man is because of developing brain SIZE and aquired knowledge. By this standard, mankind is all it can ever be without our heads growing! My thinking is as previously stated regarding unused parts of the brain coming into use over time, without a need for larger skulls.

To give the religious ultra rightwing bible thumpers some mediocre sense of satisfaction and self rightousness, as well as my own beliefs along those lines, this train of thought also allows for the biblical passages stating, "God created man in his own image".

Scientifically, it's very correct to say that there must be some level of assumptions made, since as you say, and I agree, it's really impossible to prove a lot of what any of us may theorize at this stage of human knowledge and/ or evolutionary development.

Look at cosmology as a prime example. Many assumptions are made regarding things like 'curved space', dark matter etc, as a way to fill the gaps in other provable facts, in order to create a theory about space, time and light.

What sometimes twists my shorts is that science and religion always criticize each other for doing the same things... What is an unproven scientific theory but a belief? And religious beliefs are nothing more than theory based on little proven and widely disputed, sometimes exaggerated facts? For all my spiritual beliefs, it's hard for me to buy into Noah having lived for 600 years???

And to further compare science to religion, I again look at myself. I needed your thoughts pertaining to chaos to help make my theory of "Infinite limitation" work. Thanks swede! Although, I am thinking of changing it to "Limited Infinitum". I think that actually describes my thoughts better? And as I said, this theory even allows for an "end of days" scenario to appease the bible belt!

I need a slide rule and an abacus!!! Also, access to the NASA computer would be nice.:D

One more item I wish to touch on is what you said about the methodology behind all the various theories about whatever... You're absolutely right. It can be said that to the extreme, a theory can spawn a new belief system, but I prefer to see it as merely opening a new possibility, and something to ponder.

swede
02-11-2009, 07:44 PM
Most commonly, we structure our lives and the universe around us, by starting from a point we know. A belief-system, tunnel-reality or assumption-based model (different names, same meaning). From there we consider the many manifest phenomena in existence and try to find a common pattern in all the observations.

From one point, we observe the many aspects of existence. This method is functional, when we relate to 'local', specific situations. When repairing a car, learning the intricacies of traffic-regulations or driving or book-keeping, a 'narrow' outlook is sufficient. While sometimes containing a certain amount of complexity and need of skill, these activities are verifiable in an easy way, the inner logic is simple. The results are predictable (with the necessary skill).

An alternative method for structuring existence is:

From many points (belief-systems etc) we observe one aspect of existence. In normal language this means, that we look at one specific phenomena from as many angles as possible. E.g. specific questions on cosmos, in theoretical physics, in religion. To each question, we will get somewhat different 'answers' from the different belief-systems we used as observation-points. We then try to find some common pattern between these different answers.

Practically this can be done by asking a competent priest (or equalent religious person), scientist, psychologist, linguist, historian, philosopher, idealist etc etc the same question, and then compare the answers.

This method is useful, when considering abstract, complex or hard-conceptualised phenomena. Like quantum physics, the nature of human perception, cosmogony etc. Tentative conclusions can be reached by starting with finding the above mentioned common pattern between the 'answers', and this tentative conclusions can then be turned into workable theories for testing of different types.

Sounds complicated? Summary: a/Through one 'window' we look at many things. b/Through many 'windows' we look at one thing.

These two methods are excellent for supplementing each other, and personally I have often found problems solved in quantum physics, by approaching the problem from the transcendental mystic's angle. Or found theological problems solved by using scientific cosmogonies or cosmologies. On occasion social sciences can be of help. The communication-systems used by various belief-systems can differ, and perceptual or conceptual definitions vary, so social sciences (psychology, semantic linguistics, history, knowledge of ideology) can help by 'translating' to a 'common language' (or common symbols) for all. A 'dictionary' from science to mysticism to religion.

After a period with many and far-out digressions from 'scamming', I can now return to this subject. First by mentioning, that we over the history of this thread have used both methods mentioned above.

Sometimes we have looked through one window, our individual experiences and individual outlook on scamming.

More often we have used the many-angled approach, by observing scamming from a psychological, biological, social, political, economical, existential and even humouristic angle.

Maybe this has been a long journey for many readers, sometimes appearing errant, but personally I feel, that signs of a pattern slowly is beginning to emerge.

This isn't finished yet, at least not for me.

PeopleSmoks
02-11-2009, 08:33 PM
Hey swede! We previously discussed the origins of the way we structure our lives and perceive the world around us some time ago. I think we had pretty much agreed that, instinct or basic programming along with social programming (parents and family, friends and society as a whole), being added throught our years, si what makes us all who we are as individuals.

To quote swede:

"From many points (belief-systems etc) we observe one aspect of existence. In normal language this means, that we look at one specific phenomena from as many angles as possible."

I tend to think that as you, I, our lost comrade ham and certainly a few others try to view things this way, but most actually do the opposite... especially the hardcore religious types, as they seem to see everything around them only as it can be molded within which ever doctrine they have taken in as the undeniable truth.

Asking a competent priest (or equalent religious person), scientist, psychologist, linguist, historian, philosopher, idealist etc etc the same question would be like starting armagedon if they are in the same room![B)] But, I understand what you mean. Still, try as we may, things often revert back to and centralize around our own perceptions, and that is a very hard habit to break.

As people like you and I continue to try to keep our minds open to what is possible, so many forces of conformity also continue to try to squeeze such thinking out of us every day. But, I like to believe that I have remained somewhat open.

I tend to have many pre-senior moments, and forget things, or not quite remember them accurately, but still, even though your chaos theory seemed a bit abstract at the time of that particular discussion, it did stick with me in some manifestation. I personally like to believe this was because I really do have an open mind toward what is possible, and can be more than my basic and social programming.:)

And yes, even within this babling about the cosmos and relion, the thought of what it takes to understand different concept does prevail. And to tie it to scamming, I feel as though WMs need to try to expand their narrow perceptions of the FSU, it's culture, it's women and socio-economic systems to better understand why scamming takes place, but first, we all need to look in the mirror.

swede
02-11-2009, 09:15 PM
Hi PeopleS,

the temptation of, at least momentarily, returning to the subject of cosmology is simply irresistable for me, but just now I'm too tired to express myself comprehensible. So it'll have to be tomorrow.

Where I will ofcourse also try to respond to associated subjects, you brought up.

PeopleSmoks
02-11-2009, 09:28 PM
Sleep tight sweet prince... don't let the badgers bite![8D]

swede
02-11-2009, 09:54 PM
Just a short thought:

The universe is contemplating itself, by mirroring all its myriads of facets in each other. An endless series of reflections inside reflektions inside reflektions.

But is this information sent and recieved by reflektions true or flawed?

PeopleSmoks
02-11-2009, 11:49 PM
Goody!!!!! Another point of contention that we can debate (in a most civil manner of course) and beat on like a dead dog!!!!:D

I hope you will elaborate on this thought more and not leave me to interpret your meaning incorrectly.

In the mean time, I will be working on a lovely little mathematical formula to explain EVERYTHING!!!!! Except of course the parts I have no clue about, in which case I'll just make something up that can't necessarily be disproven, like any good theoretical physicist would![:0]

Prometheus
02-12-2009, 11:39 AM
"Approximate truth" is the same thing as "relative truth," which begs the question: "Relative to what?"

Last time I checked there are 6.7 Billion people on our little spec of dust near the edge of the Milky Way, so there are approximately 6,700,000,000 versions of truth floating around on any given day of the week. One man's fact is another man's fantasy. Is a Ph.D's version of truth any more trustworthy than an Aboriginal tribesman's? The answer obviously depends on where you are. In the outback, I'll take the Aboriginee's version as a better bet for my own survival.

So while I do not discredit your cerebral jousting gentlemen, don't throw your arms out of socket slapping each other on the back. The jaguar is still hungry. The truth to him? We're dinner.

PeopleSmoks
02-12-2009, 12:00 PM
Hey Prometheus! Basically, what you said is similar to my thoughts on perception. What an individual holds to be true is often based on his/ her perception, be it what they see, hear, feel etc, or what they have been "programmed" with whether instinctually like a hungry jaguar or through social interactions of various origin including religious beliefs.

A golfer sees the course at the local country club as a woderful use of land for recreational purposes. The farm see a total waste of space that could be feeding the country.

Besides, our babbling is merely an outlet for thoughts and perceptions. References to the absolute truth are more comic relief than statements of fact.[:o)] Wait 'til you read my next incoherant rant!!!!![:0]

PeopleSmoks
02-12-2009, 12:11 PM
As I am quite bored... and getting well lubricated, I find myself now preparing to babble a bit about my thoughts on "Infinite Limitation", or "Limited Infinitum". Which when finished will only create a much bigger question.

First, we have our big bang. The creation of everything... or at least the components to create everything. The amount of energy involved can't be measured, or accurately theorized, as the results of it's release are unknown, and it's limits (being how far the universe will expand) can not be hypothesized for a simple lack of sufficient viable information. Simple mathematics dictates we must have 2 of 3 parts to reach a conclusion of fact. E=mc2. We know the speed of light, 186,282 miles per second or for our European pals, 299,792,458 km/ second.

We don't know the mass of the singularity to find it's energy, and since it's energy is still pushing outward at an immeasurable rate, we can't determine mass. Anyone who claims to know the rate of universal expansion is just blowing smoke up your butt, because we can't see that far. If we could, we would already know everything. Spectral shift only tells us so much.

swede has proposed the theory of chaos, which as I understand, simply means, "That without structure". At least, that is the definition I will be using, because it fits.:D Full credit will be given to swede when my theory is published in "Physicists Weekly". To this, it must be said that the singularity of origin, was formed from chaos. Who or what formed it is another debate all together, and where chaos came from... well, one thing at a time. This also infers that all materials necessary for the creation of our universe must still exist within chaos in some form unless they were all consumed in the formation of the singularity.

I say this is highly unlikely, as many cosmologist and physicists have recently been perplexed by a lack of total mass in the universe already. Thus the new "Dark Matter" theory to compensate. However, for the universe to expand, it needs to create new mass. To do this within itself, you would have to expend energy and thus lose the ability to expand. Even the new matter is limited in the amount of energy it can give off if some of that energy is being used to convert matter from chaos. Thus, it becomes a zero factor concerning energy replenishment of the original big bang.

This part of my theory again relies on swede's chaos. Just as chaos supplied the unknown amount of mass to create the singularity and fueled the big bang, it continues to supply fuel, or mass, to the expansion process. Be it dark matter or possibly some hydrogen atoms (this is something that can only have a minimal effect), they most certainly must come from the collision of our universe with chaos as the universe continues to expand and so create new matter within our universe, which equates to mass.

It is possible that the dark matter that has been introduced by others as an explanation for missing mass in the universe, is matter generated or simply absorbed from chaos which is not of an elemental nature as we know it, or element X, having mass with no other notable characteristics that we can determine beyond having mass. Basically, a completely inert material. Possibly made purely of neutrons, with no positive charge at all. Simply individual, free floating neutrons.

Now for the part about universal contraction... it's limitation. Because of the lack of mass in the universe and it's need to pick up new mass from chaos, it can be said that the original singularity was of a finite mass, otherwise, the universe wouldn't need to push through dark matter and absorb it as part of itself to fill the gaps in mass. Remember that it can be assumed that the mass of dark matter must be gained anew as the universe expands, otherwise there would be an abundance of mass in the universe already. Assuming that the theory the universe remains balanced, mass to volume, the original mass must have a limit. Enter gravity. The universal mass creates a gravitation pull toward it's denser center which is always acting upon the energy of expansion. Through curved space, etc, science has already shown that gravity effects even light, which by definition, is always traveling at the speed of light and that within black hole theory, not even light can escape the gravitational pull of a black hole, which just happens to be at the center of our universe.

As the original energy of the big bang is lost to gravity, it slows and it's light is pulled back to the center. This is aided by an equal, but opposite push from chaos against the outward push of the universe. As we know, information is not lost within a black hole, therefore, any mass absorbed must remain and then add to the existing mass of the black hole which strengthens it's gravity. As the energy of the original big bang is spent, and with both the mass of chaos pushing in and the gravity of the cntral black hole pulling, the universe will then stop expanding, and collapse back in on itself. Since gravity pulls differently on objects of various mass, acceleration and momentum will in fact cause collisions between masses during the collapse and like a dying star, the universe will throw off the matter and therefore, the mass it gained back to chaos in the form of energy. This energy will then slow the push of chaos, however, gravity has taken cotrol and will at this point finish the collapse. At which point, a singularity is formed as the push of chaos closes around the singularity, pressure builds until it again makes a really big bang.

I was so long winded that I actually ran out of alotted characters...

swede
02-12-2009, 05:37 PM
To my knowledge, the present scientific favourite for the universe's existence is the Bang. The main competitors, 'baby universes' (Hawkins) and 'steady state'/'continous creation' (Fred Hoyle) have been completely or partly retracted. So a beginning and an end to the universe is in vogue now.

The beginning:

The creation of the universe also included the creation of space/time, matter/energy, the forces regulating the mechanisms of the universe, plus (this is my guess) something humnity doean't know of yet, because we have some severe blind spots in our perceptual process. I here refer to my former posts, where I postulated, that higher emotions don't function very well in us; we neither have them functioning in us on a regular basis, nor do we have the 'perception' process, which should be associated with them. I guess empathy and/or compassion is the closest description I can give for this missing function in us.

Cosmos (alternative for the universe) means 'order', and in scientific, esoteric and theological terminology everything 'not-cosmos' is variously described as chaos, the void, the silence, the emptiness, ultimate enthropy (and probably much more).

Actually there should be no reason for science and theology to argue about the nature of chaos (..etc), as none of the parts have any evidence whatsoever about it (this doesn't usually stop anyone from having opinions about anything though). The only persons who have a first-hand experiental knowledge of chaos (...etc) are the socalled mystics. And the mystics have for millenia given some information about chaos. Some of it showing surprising similarity to quantum physics. And mystics, no matter time or culture, usually 'agree' amongst themselves. (But that's a subject for another time).

The concept 'zero-point' has recently gained in popularity, and as far as I understand it, this is a level on par with 'string' or 'M(embran)' theory, where quantum-fluctuations take place. Personally I know too little of this to know where to place this in a creation process: In Chaos (I doubt this), in the initial moment of the Bang itself, or maybe at a later stage (thus making it a part of the present universe).

String theory postulates some really interesting ideas, from which inductive arguments about creation, chaos and (intelligent) design can be formed. There seem to exist far more dimensions, than the four we can percieve. Eleven are mentioned (sometimes more). These dimensions are 'hidden' (my comment: Maybe we don't experience them because of insufficient perceptions). But that's not the strangest thing. String theory suggests, that the 'parameters' upon which the universe are created and 'maintained', are NOT fixed constants. Apparently it's possibly to make a universe in any old way you want, with completely different natural laws.

The end:

Depending on the amount of matter in the universe, it (the universe) will either continue to expand or eventually contract, and then there will be the 'Big Crunch'. But gravity is a relatively unknown force (no-one has sofar found the transmitter particle. The graviton, it's still a theoretical construction), and besides gravity itself seems to be a bit weird. Maybe some of the gravity (as a force) which should be here in the universe (because of the amount of matter here), ISN*T here inside the universe, but somewhere else. (I'm not talking about an asymmetric universe without reason).

But so that PeopleS shall not despair about a beginning and an end, there are plenty of other options for the end of the universe. Enthropy, black holes gobbling up everything, or the wearing out of the strong nuclear force (the one which keeps matter together). This last will take 10 (with 32 zeros after it) years. No need for panic.


Cit Prometheus:

"Approximate truth" is the same thing as "relative truth," ......."

Not quite. 'Relative' refers to structures inside the truthseeking process relating to each other. My 'approximation' relate to something outside, ultimate truth. But for practical purposes, I don't think we disagree at this level.
Cit PeopleS:

"What an individual holds to be true is often based on his/ her perception, be it what they see...."
Science (through e.g. mathematics) and the mystic's completely different perseption can sometimes bypass this restriction.
PeopleS:

"We don't know the mass of the singularity........."
Didn't have any, matter wasn't yet invented at that point.

PeopleS:

"This also infers that all materials necessary for the creation of our universe must still exist within chaos in some form unless they were all consumed in the formation of the singularity."

That's the funny part. 'Something comes from nothing' (or at least what humans call nothing). Hne, hne, I'm really looking forward to this one.

PeopleSmoks
02-12-2009, 06:46 PM
Hey swede!

To quote swede:

"So a beginning and an end to the universe is in vogue now."

And I boldy go one step further by proposing that it begins again. This is the Infinite part of "Infinite Limitation" or "Limited Infinitum" as I am now beginning to prefer.

Again I must disagree that emotion is a real problem for mankind. In many ways, our personal experiences and the emotions we have because of them are part of what makes us individuals. The problem also is not having bad emotions, but rather how we react to them.

Zero point is basically used to provide a baseline to energy levels within quantum theory, so any quantum theoretic work would involve it's use at some point.

As in my theory, the gravity that brings about the eventual collapse of the universe comes from the black hole popularly theorized to be at the center of the universe, left over from creation itself. The thinking is that an object of mass has gravity. Increase the mass and gravity increases. Current black hole theory is that information, in this case mass, is not lost. So, if an object, planet, star, etc is consumed by a black hole the mass of those objects is not lost, but retained within and added to that of the black hole.

It's like a snowball rolling down a mountain. The more it draws in, the more it's mass increases and so the greater the gravitational attraction which pulls in more mass, etc, etc... But also, I theorize that the universal expansion into chaos is met with building resistance, which is what prevents the outer reaches of the universe from flying apart.

It is these two forces in tandum that will eventually lead to the inward collapse of the universe.

E=MC2 ; F = G M1M2/d2 where F is the force between the bodies of masses M1, M2 and d is the distance between them. G is the universal gravitational constant.; This is mine:[:0] E (energy) is less than G (gravity) times F (force) plus M (mass) times d (distance) squared. That light can not escape the gravity of a black hole is the basis for this thinking on my part. Besides, it sounded good when the voices told it to me.[:o)] Although, probably highly flawed and easily shot full of holes by a real physicist, it would be interesting to see the same physicist run with it and maybe make sense of my babbling. I'm still working on this as a true theorist would... say it then try to prove it! I plan to give Stephen Hawking a call later and bounce it off his big brain. He might buy into it since it involves black holes!!!!:D

I was really lubricated last night!!!!!!!

To quote swede:

"Didn't have any, matter wasn't yet invented at that point."

There is a fairly new theory that absolutely everything needed to create the universe was expelled from the singularity at the time of the big bang... Highly concentrated mass with no form like a thick firey goo. The elemnets as we know them, came from this goo in the following nano seconds as the universe expanded, but there was an undifined matter.

A neat little place I found: http://www.physicsforums.com/ :D

Hey! watch me make the religious guys think... We can't see a black hole right? Only it's effects. As I see the beginning and the end being within the singularity, black hole, maybe it's GOD himself!?![:0]

I have tried several times to write mathematical equations above, but for some unknow reason it won't show in the post? Very strange indeed? I see it in the write message window, but not in my post? Cosmic conspiracy?????

PeopleSmoks
02-12-2009, 09:09 PM
Hey guys! I wonder just how much of a mistake I am pondering? My current circumstances may afford me the opportunity to take a month long vacation following scheduled knee surgery and the subsequent rehab to follow. Naturally, the destination I'm considering is back to Ukraine. Oh what a tangled web...

swede
02-16-2009, 04:57 PM
Hi PeopleS,

my silence hasn't been motivated by either tiredness, disinterest or illwill. It's just that out present dispute about predation/symbiosis has presented me with some problems of both intellectual and moral character. And I don't want to be rude to you (as I respect you much), so I've been thinking quite a lot the last few days about an answer, which hopefully is communicative.

Predation can be considered from a pragmatic or idealistic angle. The pragmatic angle, where you consider the immediate practical results, would indicate that the Darwinistic survivor in the evolution process, should represent a step forward towards some better or higher 'reality'. I do not believe, that you would suscribe to such an idea (knowing you for the person you are), because that would mean, that FSU scammers would be of a 'better grade' than their victims; they being on the top of the food chain.

The idealistic angle, which I believe you are using, would suggest an idealistic aim, where the end-result would justify the rather unpleasant causualities along 'the evolutionary way'. So my question is, what is it, we are 'evoluting' towards? What kind of better or more 'reality-oriented' result can be expected from predatory evolution.

I do not expect a final or all-encompassing answer on this (I couldn't give such an answer on my own ideology), but at least you can give me some idea of, what you're hoping for.

But please tread carefully. The evolutionary (predatory) principle has often been used as a pragmatic, 'real-politic' excuse for individual, political or economical theories/practices, which are abominable in my eyes.

PS If Hawkins answer you, I hope you will share. And I hope in the name of the unintelligent designer, that you can get your holiday.

swede
02-16-2009, 05:33 PM
Hi Scamfree,

better late than never. This is an answer to your honourable effort of bringing scamming to mass-media.

I will make a guess: Whether we are religious or not as individuals, western culture has some strong roots in western christianity's peculiar attitude to sex. The consequences of that can be seen quite clearly in the 'official' media way of treating the subject: Especially american main-stream films give me shivers. Sex is either presented in such a Victorian way, that it's a wonder we still exist as a species at all (because sex is 'bad' and should be reserved for divine situations), or alternatively so brutally that most females should be cut up by chainsaws in the sexual encounter. (Prometheus once described the hypocrazy (intentional misspelling) about it, when referring to biblethumping women: "Spank me, I've been a bad girl" in sexual context).

Take this together with radical feminism (which is also served by medias as a popular cultural mythos at the present), and the result is, that if a western man is looking for an eastern woman, this implies sexual criticism on western women (why would western men otherwise seek contacts in the east) and generally on the (mostly Calvinistic) myth of western sexuality.

A man breaking both above mentioned taboos is almost no better than a bordello guest, and should be ignored (for the sake of the cultural mythos).

If I'm right, medias won't take up your stories. But please keep us posted as to the results. I'm not infallible (sadly enough).

PeopleSmoks
02-16-2009, 05:34 PM
Hey swede! Glad your back! Actually, I'm not saying that either predition or symbiosis is "better". Quite the opposite as my equations show, both are ultimately deficient. I understand your intrigue with symbiosis as an alternative to prediton, but I am actually looking for something better than those two options offer.
Since the nature of man happens to already be predition for the most part, I see it as being the logical start point of further evolution to something better than what we presently are, since symbiosis would possibly be a sidetrack from the eventual end of the journey toward what I refer to as true enlightenment. That being the level of conciousness mankind will reach just before we ascend to a higher plain of existence.

swede
02-17-2009, 07:18 AM
PeopleS,

if possible, please enlarge and go on. I don't want to discourage you, but your 'cosmology' isn't that revolutionary as it is presented just now. But maybe you make some conclusions of a revolutionary character from it.

I listen.

PeopleSmoks
02-17-2009, 12:31 PM
Hey swede! You're right that it's not so revolutionary, but a bit controversial. Current thinking generally doesn't allow for a "center" to the cosmos. However, we presently can't see any further back than just after the big bang, so exactly what took place, real physicists and cosmologists don't even know.

My thinking is that like solar systems and galaxies, there should be a "center" to the cosmos. There is currently some thinking that since the universe is expanding in all directions that there is no true center, but I see this as being a combination of not being able to see that far into the past and a need for certain things to fit the accelerated expansion theory.

Various mathematical formulas have been give 'assumed' positive values in order to 'create' models that allow constant expansion. I simply disagree with the use of these positive assumptions.

One such assumption is that 'dark energy' has a positive charge. This was done purely to propagate the expansion, where as I believe that dark energy is neutral and that all energy is in some form related to the original big bang.

Einstein's theory of general relativity actually allowed for expansion and contraction, but he believed the cosmos to be a constant and then included 'the cosmological constant' prior to being published. When Hubble showed that the unviverse was still expanding. Einstein said it was his "greatest blunder". I'm not sure if it was Einstein himself, or others who changed some numbers to a positive which then locked the universe into constant expansion. I don't agree with the insertion of a positive here either.

The only thin that completely excludes the possibilty of contraction is string theory. String theory holds that expanding and contracting would build up heat energy. I believe that this build up of heat energy is part of the energy. But again, it's a matter of numbers. Honestly, the deeper I get into it, the more problematic the solutions!

PeopleSmoks
02-17-2009, 07:58 PM
Hey guys! In the on going reality show that is my involvement in the FSU/ MOB world, a new and slightly unpleasant devlopement has come up concerning my 'real' Olga. In the past, I have brought up the subject of her taking English lessons, reasoning that if our relations are to proceed beyond cyberspace and/ or 'real' dates that include a translator, it would seem to be a necessary step. Yes, I'm studying Russian, but the ultimate goal IS for the girl to relocate and marry you, so her learning English prior to this would seem logical to most.

In the past, she has often balked at the idea saying she did not have time to devote to such a commitment, being the time to attend classes, at the time. In a recent communication, she indicated that she thinks it would be nice for her to learn some English before my next visit. Here's where it gets a little ugly...

She was talking about taking lessons offered by the website we are communicating through. Now, to clear up the website thing, it's only costing me around $2/ letter, which, I think, is reasonable. But paying for English lessons through the site is NEVER going to happen! I can arrange for her to receive PRIVATE classes for much, much, MUCH less than the price offered by the site we use, or any other site for that matter, for an open class.

I was able to sneak a phone number to her, and told her to call to ask about the English courses offered. The key here is that if she doesn't even bother to make the call, it will tell me she's simply not so serious afterall. A bit depressing, but better than paying for bogus, over-priced English lessons with no future of anything more than me being just another sucker who spends $230 USD/ month for who knows how long before the girl finally disappears. As my friend Sasha said, English lessons are not very expensive to people in Lugansk, otherwise no one could afford them.

Having been to Lugansk twice, I have seen some of the prices for myself. I can say that most things are relatively cheap, although their beloved electronics do cost a small fortune. I didn't get to check the prices of English classes personally, but I believe what Alex said. Regardless of the Olga outcome, I am still thinking about taking my third trip after my knee surgery and rehab. I've stepped up my own studies of Russian and I actually asked Alex about Russian courses for foreigners, and he said he should be able to find something fairly easily.

Hey! If I go, current circumstances will probably allow me to stay there close to a month, so I know I'll learn some Russian simply through emersion, but learning from a real instructor would certainly be useful with pronounciation and grammer. Besides, if my Olga turns out to be anything less than what I hope her to be, I'll need to know Russian better so I can pick up girls at the discos!!![:0][:p]:D[8D]

swede
02-18-2009, 05:01 PM
Hi PeopleS,

actually I believed, that it was your equations, which were the inportant part of your cosmology. I didn't get, that it was the question of a possible center of the universe.

I must admit, that it's tough one (such a center), because it's almost impossible to conceptualize the alternative of no universal center. A possible way of looking at the problem is to consider space as a 'construct', not representing some ultimate reality, but as with its 'twin' (time) a separate parameter originating independant (when banging time) of the other forces and manifestations of the universe. This way space isn't 'measured' by how and where matter exists inside it.

But I'm stil interested in a further development of your thoughts, as you suggested an alternative to my hobby-horse of predation/symbiosis. My own idea was/is to bring cosmology down to a position, where the big principles can be seen at a daily level.

To go to our main-subject (we've been a bit around lately), I would hypothetically suggest, that the whole net-dating scene has changed drastically the last few years. A reciprocial distrust has grown between WM and FSUW. Straight WM suspect scamming, and straight FSUW suspect sex-tourism. With both parts having reason for this distrust. The result would be, that the straights are disappearing from international net-dating, and the bad guys are making up a greater part now. Hope they eventually will shoot it out with each other, preferably on 'adult sites', giving the straights some breathing space.

But then I haven't been net-dating for more than three years myself, so I only speculate.

PeopleSmoks
02-18-2009, 06:21 PM
Hey swede! The deeper I get into the cosmology, the more twisted it becomes. Trying to take in some of the equations brings me to recall one of my high school math teachers. The b!tch didn't like long hairs and I found myself in the principal's office every other day until I finally dropped the class. I was an A student until then, and more or less majored in math. I could use that knowledge now as I try to decipher the specifics of what Einstein, Hubble and a few others are talking about.

The generally accepted view that there is no true center to the universe is based on the theory that the universe is expanding in all directions from all points. I'm still trying to completely grasp the thinking behind that one? I think it may be based in quantum physics?

Time is factored in as the fourth dimension and seems to be used to support theories of 'folded space' and theoretic 'wormholes'. I'm still trying to grasp that one also.

The one factor of cosmology that is a part of everyone's life is gravity. Many of Newton's laws are still used to explain some cosmological events and unseen objects, including black hole theory to some extent.

To scamming, I guess these people are still of the belief that their little lives are the center of the universe???[V]

My thoughts pertaining to man's evolution into something more than we are today, invovles a devlopment of the human brain's ability to conceive and truly understand the real answers to the ultimate questions... "Where do we come from and what does it all mean?" Let's face it, right now it's all speculation, whether scientific or religious.

Today's scammers seem to be "evolving" in many ways, in response to a smarter prey. Aside from the very few, most no longer seem to go for the visa/ airfare scam. The translation scam is big, but I think the agencies and websites are working diligently to snuff out the indepedents with their anti-scam propaganda. It's getting so that a girl needs a local agency to act as their 'pimp' and connect them to a website. I believe that a good number of girls are paid to post ads on many sites.

As I touched on in another thread, websites are trying to make their translation scams to seem legit. But, if you find a girl who speaks English and can read and write her own letters, you still pay the website fees! If you check out sites where translation fees are charged, you'll notice that most girls know little or no English!

In the other thread, I also talked about gifts and English lessons which I also talked about in the above post regarding my new concerns about my Olya. Most "gifts" offered on websites are at least two to three times what they would cost you in Ukraine. Big profits!!! But, they have to pay the local agencies so that they can then pay the girls in the ads.

It's funny you mentioned sex tourists. A related item is sex slavery. There was a program on the subject on TV a few nights ago. FSUWs were mentioned as still being prime targets and with the UAH at 8 to 1 against the USD, I can see where the promise of an au pair position in the US could easily nab a few unsuspecting girls. What's really screwed up is that it's not WMs, but good old Ivan and Boris doing the dirty deals!!!

As for adult sites, there are plenty that actually come up when googling FSU/ MOB related subjects. As a matter of fact, after checking out some of the sites, I might just spend my vacation in Kiev. A guy can get a girl delivered to his hotel for $50 to $70 per hour, with multi hour and overnight discounts!!![:0][:p][}:)][:o)][V]

swede
02-18-2009, 07:00 PM
Universal 'forces' have a somewhat independant existence from space/time and matter/energy, though they interact.

We can percieve, and therefore conceptualize two of them, gravity and electro-magnetism, whereas we only can experience the two other (known) forces indirectly.


As with the socalled 'spiritual' supermarket presented by the abominable new-age merchants, selling the equalent of the Eiffel tower or Brooklyn bridge, customers will sooner or later come to their senses and stop paying the agency 'extras', and some kind of functional balance will be achieved. You CAN actually by a secondhanded car nowadays with getting cheated with 100% certainty.

But ofcourse there will always be those, who will be naive or desperate enough to buy almost anything at face value.

I had actually thought about taking up trafficking as a subject here, so it was good you brought it up. It's so closely connected with the net-dating scene, that I would guess, that it's almost a natural next step. Even here in our rad feminist, sex-repressing calvinist and anti-prostitution country, we've had sex-slaves. And as you said, mostly FSUW, who in this case were held more or less prisoners in a bordello.

Fortunately the police here are taking things like this seriously, so they stormed the place. I find it humiliating to know, that we in the otherwise relatively peaceful scandinavian culture are reverting to slavery. It's shameful.

PeopleSmoks
02-18-2009, 08:27 PM
Hey swede! When you say 'universal forces', exactly to what do you refer? God/ ID? or something else??? Cosomologically, gravitation is a force, where as time is a dimension, along with pysical space being the other three... ie lenth, width, depth or height. I believe magnetism is classified as energy. And yes, all of these interact and that's what gets so darned confusing sometimes.

What I am taking from my recent delving into cosmology is that in theoretical sciences, the numbers are NOT the answers to questions, but they are merely numbers used to fit within the confines of what the theorist is trying to prove. Example: Einstein's cosmological constant. After looking at his theory of general relativity, he realized that his equations allowed for cosmic expasion and contraction. He didn't believe this was the way it was. He believed in a static universe and added the cosmological constant to his theory prior to pulishing it.

After Hubble's observations showed the universe to be expanding, the cosmological constant wasn't dropped, the numbers were changed to coincide with what Hubble saw!

Okay, back to scamming...:D...

To quote swede:

"As with the socalled 'spiritual' supermarket presented by the abominable new-age merchants, selling the equalent of the Eiffel tower or Brooklyn bridge, customers will sooner or later come to their senses and stop paying the agency 'extras', and some kind of functional balance will be achieved."

The problem is that, at least in the case of Americans, WMs think we know everything!!! and people who THINK they know everything are especially annoying to people like me who actually DO know everything![:0][^];)[:o)] But seriously, this also goes back to things I've said about taking the time to learn a bit about the culture, past and present, of the FSUW you are persuing.

But, the real catch that the websites have is the simple fact that, yes, it IS customary to give your girl presents of certain holidays and birthdays, and they create a scenario where as you either buy their over-priced offerings or let your girl think you're a cheap bastard! Most sites have pop up reminders and e-mails concerning these "special" occasions. I also touched on this elsewhere. 2 Christmases, 2 New years (can't forget about 'old' New Years on the 13th), Students' Day, Valentines Day, Women's Day..... 2 Easter's... But, you probably know all this. It's the guy that didn't bother to learn anything about the culture that will be shocked.

Okay, Student's Day and old New Years can be escaped without gift giving, but the other holidays it WILL BE EXPECTED!!! Because of the various website rules, it is very difficult to get contact info of your lady to send gifts by some other means. Another thing I've talked about before is the way in which most pay sites make it impossible to communicate with a girl in any way except through the site.

This brings me to my situation which is fast becoming a bit tedious. My Olya has dragged me to a new website to continue our communication. Her reasons being that the site is based in Lugansk and it is cheaper for me. Believe it or not, letter translation only costs $2/ letter on average, which I find fairly cheap. Okay? Also, she does not have to pay and it helps her that she does not pay. Okay? But other issues are as I previously posted regarding English lessons.

I believe it was our MIA fellow babbler, Anthony Ferrera, who posted a thread about sex slavery some time ago... before "The Ggreat Forum collapse". Some of the articles I've read, and programs I've seen, focus more on Ivan and Boris scamming FSUWs and basically kidknapping them. Their fates anything from being sold to a Turkish businessman to ending up strippers and prostitutes in the US. There is actually a strip bar near Stately Smoks Manor where FSUWs are frequently shaking their money makers while Boris and Ivan discuss business, in Russian, at the end of the bar.

Au pair services are becoming a popular way for FSUWs to get a visa. Although she is German, it's how Frau Eva Hindenberg got her US visa![:o)] I also think there are a few reasons why these girls don't go to the cops, both based in that strongest of emotions... fear. The fear of physical abuse or death. They are told they will be thrown in jail as an illegal immigrant, because Ivan took her papers as soon as she landed. These girls don't know that after a few unpleasantries, they'll simply be sent home. I'm not sure who pays for that though. The other thing is that Ivan and Boris usually have an accomplice in the FSU and threats of harm to the girl's family are another reason why they don't go to the local police for help.

swede
02-19-2009, 04:48 PM
With universal forces, I mean those forces which are acting between the various parts of the universe (gravity etc). The unintelligent designer is kind of 'outside' the universe (or at least parts of him/her is. He couldn't have designed the universe from the inside of it, before it existed).

Like all other methods for relating to, communicating with or describing the universe, numbers have their limitations. They function very well inside the parameters they work inside. Science in general is also very successfull if it doesn't stray outside its own territory. So mathematics, science and our other ways of relating to the universe is good 'locally'.

To return to a recent post, I gather, that you're talking 'intellect', when you suggest our brains to grow, as a method of gaining more insight on reality. Please let me know, when this hypothesis of yours starts to be supported by evidence of some kind.

You mention in this latest post, that all the various cornerblocks of the universe (forces, dimensions etc) are interconnected. That was what I tried to say with my car-allegory. The car, or the universe, only functions when all the parts are assembled into an interactive whole. And as with a car (if you want to understand it), it's not enough to know the function of each separate part. You also need to know the specific relationship between the parts. And while a car can drive even with some discrepances between the various parts, it only functions as it should, when the parts function optimally together.

Intellect will never be able to produce answers or function perfect outside its own competence. "Right tool at right place".


In my opinion, mainstream american culture is a sick joke. No, not even a joke, a tragedy. Hopefully these people will kill each other, before they kill the rest of us (which they seem to like doing, probably because they then don't have to do anything about their own problems).

It is customary to give presents in FSUW, for any reason whatsoever. But these presents are more tokens of respect or friendship, than they are overwhelming. A flower or a bit of chokolade will do in many situations. As this constant present-giving isn't a normal part of scandinavian culture, I skipped it completely, and only the ukrainian women protested (but then she's a gold-digger, so what could one expect).

My knowledge of trafficking is secondhand, but it does surprise me, that so many FSUW get involved. They usually seem to have a rather good knowledge of western culture (except when it comes to the amount of swimmingpools pr. capita), so you're probably right, when you say that main organisers of the kidnapping and smuggling itself are russians, who would know how to create false trust. Just as when it was africans selling other africans to the arab slave-dealers.

PeopleSmoks
02-19-2009, 06:18 PM
Hey swede! What I am seeing as I get deeper into cosmology, is that, people see things that they don't fully understand or simply have a concept of the way it all works. Then, math is used to help it make sense in a consistant way. Often, something will happen out there that contradicts the math and then the equations are refigured by adding new equations within the original. As I said, my best example of this is what I wrote about Einstein's theory of general relativity and how some numbers had to be changed to allow for what Hubble later observed. It's a mosaic collage of information that no one has yet completely tied into one tidey equation.

To quote swede:

"To return to a recent post, I gather, that you're talking 'intellect', when you suggest our brains to grow, as a method of gaining more insight on reality. Please let me know, when this hypothesis of yours starts to be supported by evidence of some kind."

Intellect, intelligence, maybe even telekenetics, mystic insight??? If only a small portion of the brain is actually being utilized now, who knows how far man could go if 100% were to be used? As I said before, I see the ultimate being that mankind attains a level of consciousness that puts us just one step below that of God/ UID.

To quote swede:

"In my opinion, mainstream american culture is a sick joke."

I guess that depends on what you believe to be "mainstream" American culture?

Giving presents wasn't so much the main point, as to the outrageous expense of sending presents via a website. I personally, have never had a problem giving gifts to any girl I was ever with. I actually enjoy doing it. But, with the 'blending' of western and FSU culture continues, WMs need to understand that there are a few extra holidays that will come up every year and your FSU sweety will, more or less, be expecting some attention from you, presumably in the form of a gift of some sort. And if your communication is through a website, your only options will be the over-priced items they offer.

Although I am having a minor misgiving concerning my Olya, I must point out that she has NEVER asked for or hinted about gifts. If this ever happened, it'll be time to take a real hard look at the situation.

I find it a bit odd that gift giving isn't part of Scandinavian culture. I always thought that giving your girl gifts, big and small, was merely a way of letting her know you care.

My knowledge of sex slavery is relegated to what I read or see on TV, but it does appear to be one of those things that isn't openly talked about. It's a fair comparison to Africans selling Africans, but unlike the Africans, it appears that it's usually an FSUM that is behind the whole thing. As I said, it seems to be more of an economical scam then an MOB scam used against these unsuspecting FSUWs. "We can help you get a good paying job in the US, England, or any other country where beautiful FSUWs are in demand."

swede
02-19-2009, 09:54 PM
PeopleS,

we have a bit different schooling system here than in the english/american cultures, but my guess is, the my basic schooling (finished at 18 years of age) was something equalent to college. I choose the natural science variety, and qualified for university. At university I changed, CHANGED (remember we had a short 'exchange' on change) to social sciences, in spite of the fact, that I have a natural talent for hard science. Had I followed my talent, I would have had a minimum of a hundred grand a year. But I was curious, and I always follow up my weakest links (so I can 'grow') instead of my wallet.

That means, that most of the science I refer to know, is acquired by reading 'popular science' (I ofcourse don't mean the magazine, which is VERY popular science and sometimes sensationalist), written by scientists, who try to translate their serious research to non-specialists.

Long way around, but I can recommend Paul Davies' books (if you're interested in following up the track). He's a good scientist of international standing (though not in Einstein class), and he's openminded enough to let criticism of science come to the surface.

Cit PeopleS:

" Intellect, intelligence, maybe even telekenetics, mystic insight??? If only a small portion of the brain is actually being utilized now, who knows how far man could go if 100% were to be used? As I said before, I see the ultimate being that mankind attains a level of consciousness that puts us just one step below that of God/ UID."

Yes. But what if we already had that potential? That the question isn't about what we have, but how we use it. And actually the 'mystic' insight (and the distant cousins PSI, ESP etc) are steadily diminishing, as we continue to worship the cult of fake 'rationalism'. In spite of being 'heathen savages', your forefathers were probably much more sane and rational, than the average western person today.

Russian and ukranian women are often beautiful, intelligent, well-educated, cuddly, sweet, with a wonderful sense of humour, great physical lovers. And ofcourse they want a better life socially/economically (I have no problems with that).

So what the 'beeb' do they topple every chance they have for acchieving this aim by demonstrating immoderate greed? There ARE decent guys like you and me who would make acceptable husbands (OK, we have our faults, but I think we are well inside the tolerable. As is Prometheus). So I can only find an answer in a philosophy of 'the weakest link breakes the chain'. Not in an evolutionary process of answers solving themselves.

With all these excellent qualities as FSUW have, they should have all chances for a good life, but greed seems to be weighting more than everything else together.

With a former discussion about US culture in mind, I'll be careful about what I say, but instead I'll cite a close friend (who's a CONVINCED islamophobe): "In the present conflict between US and the Talibans, I hope the Talibans win". Sorry, but this is the main european/asian attitude to US now.

If you and I take up this subject, I insist upon doing it, when you don't have PMS. Remember what happened, when you and Ham disagreed?

PeopleSmoks
02-19-2009, 11:10 PM
Hey swede! As I understand it, yes, you do have a slightly different school system than we have in the US. I know this from the lovely Anne Brit Ericson, who was an exchange student from Moss, Norway. She graduated high school with my class here, but told me she still had another year to go when she got home. Our basic schooling is Kindergarten, 1, 2, 3 through 12. After that, college or university, it's really the same thing here, technical school or work.

A lot of the science I learn is just by reading articles and scientific publications online. Some of it gets pretty darned confusing to say the least... I'm not a rocket scientist. I like to think of myself as being like a prostitute servicing a fat sweaty guy... I just fake it!!![:0][:o)]:D

As I said, I see it as being that we do have the potential to reach the levels I speak of, but those parts of the brain simply aren't turned on yet and it will be mankind's gradual evolution that will bring about this sort of change. And as with anything potentially so powerful as what I foresee as man's eventual future, hopefully this WILL be a slow progression as to allow us to not be handed a potentially dangerous toy. We can't forget what happened when a few people figured out how to split an atom.[B)] As for scientific evidence, that would be up to the scientists. Measuring electrical output of the brain while performing various tasks would be a start. I would love to see the differences between Einstein, Mozart, Ted Bundy, a Tibetan monk, Adolf Hitler, etc and an average human. How much electrical impulses are flying around in there and what areas of the brain are actually sparking?

There is no denying the beauty of so many FSUWs![:p] But, I think we touched on it before, at which time I blamed it on agency propaganda. Just as WMs are 'fed' a load of bullsh!t about FSUWs, I'm sure they are also being told some pretty unreasonable untruths about life in the west. And even if this isn't entirely the case, when you add in the life time of not having everything you want and having to save money just to buy something a little extravagant like a new pair of fashionable boots, coupled with hearing the stories of how hard your parents have always worked, now throw in the touchy economics and there you go! FSU girl gone wild when she gets to the land of milk and honey... and swimming pools!

Throughout my time of corresponding with this girl or that, I've always made a point to let her know, "I'M NOT RICH!!!" I make a good living, but not Fortune 500 stuff.

To quote swede:

"With a former discussion about US culture in mind, I'll be careful about what I say, but instead I'll cite a close friend (who's a CONVINCED islamophobe): "In the present conflict between US and the Talibans, I hope the Talibans win". Sorry, but this is the main european/asian attitude to US now."

Not to sound like an assh@le, but most Americans don't care what others think. Not necessarily a good thing, but it's the way it is. We are incredibly arrogant in that respect. We're 7 wins, 1 lose and 1 tie in military conflicts, not including the mess we're in right now where we kicked Saddam Huessin's raggedy @ss already. That isn't too bad in only 232 1/2 years although it IS becoming a mess, it's not the same as Vietnam or even Korea. Plus all the little butt whippings we've handed out in between. Anybody hear from Moamar Khaddafi lately?:D

As for ham, I got pissed because I could write a 10,000 word essay on whatever we were discussing at the time, and he would take one little misquote and turn it into the focus of an attack on the entire line of thought. When I said something about it, he got pissed and left. ham2 is ham. I told him we miss his input here on another thread, but he's still a no show.


One thing that our new President has already done to prove he had no plan is to send more troops to Afganistan and call up more reservists for future deployment... Didn't this guy say he was going to get our people out???[V]

PeopleSmoks
02-21-2009, 11:59 PM
William Jefferson Clinton needs to shut the 'BEEP' up!!!!!!!!!! Yes, George W was so focussed on being a wartime President that he became oblivious to national and world economics, but it is now becoming more and more apparent that the problem's began during the runaway artifcially stimulated growth years of the Clinton administration.

Now, Clinton is jumping on his soapbox again and openly criticizing Obama's first hundred days saying he isn't doing enough. What an assh@le!!!!! Just as he destroyed his wife's campaign with his ridiculous remarks, now he's undermining Obama. The worst part is that the stock market had been slowly recovering right up until his latest blurb.

Hey Slick Willy, Hillary is half way around the world, why don't you go find a chubby intern and keep out of the public eye for... THE REST OF YOUR FRIGGIN' LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![V]

swede
02-22-2009, 09:52 AM
Cit PeopleS:

".......but those parts of the brain simply aren't turned on yet and it will be mankind's gradual evolution that will bring about this sort of change. And as with anything potential so powerful as what I foresee as man's eventual future, hopefully this WILL be a slow progression as to allow us to not be handed a potentially dangerous toy."

The harm has already been done; most, if not all, of our scientific or technological acchievements, are parallel to the beneficients results also used for something destructive. I'm not quite sure of the present statistics, but I would estimate, that more than 25% of the top-scientist are working on military projects.

It is possible consciously and intentionally to turn on the sleeping parts of our brains (and other potentials we have), but it's a complicated process with many pitfalls.

Concerning FSUW's knowledge of the west, I was often surprised of how much they know of f.ex. western politics, while it's ofcourse true, that this doesn't enable them to understand how daily life is in the west.

All of the contributors to 'psychobabbling' are probably persons with strong wills and equally strong convictions. I also find it difficult at times to navigate through this in a diplomatic way.

PS I'm at the present rereading Philp K. Dick's book: 'Valis'. It's highly recommendable.

PeopleSmoks
02-22-2009, 02:50 PM
Hey swede! It must be a good book for you to read it twice.

To quote swede:

"The harm has already been done..."

The reason I continued by saying, "We can't forget what happened when a few people figured out how to split an atom." Two other problems with any scientific research, are motivation and money. Although a particular scientist doing research may have the most altruistic intentions, often the funds for his or her research comes from a military source. And even if a different government department is supplying the cash, the D.O.D will always be evaluating it's weapon potential.

The fact is that we DO live in a preditory world and finding new and creative ways to kill one's neighbor is how many beneficial inventions trickle down to the common man. Once again, "That which does not kill us..." Not to deminish the horrors of Hiroshma and Nagasaki, but mankind has apparently survived the era of nukes as a whole.

Briefly, US military strategies have "evolved", especially, in the past two decades. Civilian targets no longer exist for the most part, where as in the 1940s, civilians were fair game. The strategy being to break the will of the people to fight.

My hope is that as mankind evolves, we being to realize the folly of war. and not only the difference between right and wrong, but to have the strength to do what is right.

To quote swede:

"It is possible consciously and intentionally to turn on the sleeping parts of our brains (and other potentials we have), but it's a complicated process with many pitfalls."

This a point that you and I simply disagree on. I see it as a part of evolution, which man has no control over and you see it as something we can consciously "will" to happen. Whether it's beneficial to us or not isn't a factor as I see it. Just as it would have been beneficial for a neanderthal to have a grcery store, they simply didn't have the ability to "will" themselves to be more advanced then they were.

As to an FSUW's knowledge of western politics, yes, it's very easy to learn this and much more by reading online news. While in Lugansk, I watched a BBC news program almost daily. US politics was often a subject being covered. Other local news casts often included some kind of piece on the US and other western countries. Also, western based magazines are popular, and are on every newstand. I think it's these magazines that tend to help (mis)inform many FSUWs about life in the US, along with propaganda from various web dating agencies.

I personally can say that I found Lugansk to be very different in some ways from what I expected based on web articles and website propaganda.

swede
02-23-2009, 11:07 AM
Cit PeopleS (Concerning the possibility of personal inner 'growth'):

"I see it as a part of evolution, which man has no control over and you see it as something we can consciously "will" to happen. Whether it's beneficial to us or not isn't a factor as I see it."

I believe, that we do agree, that we have a sleeping, unused potential (e.g. the app. 90% of our brain we don't seem to use consciously. Or don't use at all). I know from many years of personal, practical experience, that my intellectual capacity can be enhanced, if I really want (will) it. 'All' it takes is to (re)arrange my own internal and external situation, so I can get contact with the normally passive potential.

And as demonstrated in physical catastrophe situations, a person's physical strength can suddenly be tripled or more. I remember a firsthand story I heard about a father, whose son was slowly being chrushed under big piece of conctruction timber. The father lifted the timber away alone, while it normally would have taken three strong men to do it.

Or those moments, when a small, inner mental association can create strong, positive emotions or feelings of wellbeing in us. Not originating from an outside source, like meeting this goddess in human form and falling madly in love with her, but a mental return to e.g. a positive childhood scene. I use this possibility consciously, when I want to be in a special, relaxed mood; and it has served me well over the years.

What I am trying to say is, that we already have evolved to the level, where greater potentials exist. It's up to us to activate them through use of our will. If I follow your suggestions to a logical end, it could mean, that even 'will' should grow through evolution, before we can hope for 'betterment' (whatever that is for the individual). You're making will into a result of the evolutionary process, and while it's possible, that will can develop, we already have enough will to start activating some of our potentials. The sad fact is, that we're just plain mentally lazy.

'Willing', making choices or taking responsibility for one's actions are more or less synonymous for the same thing. If we try to reduce a complex being to a mechanistic automaton (as the early hard-core scientists did in their theories), it is meaningless to talk about morals, decency etc, because no-one is able to anything but what 'the robot-state' dictates.

So when FSUW and WM sex-tourists occasionally behave like pigs (sorry about that, all pigs and pig-lovers), or when a criminal starts excusing him/herself with his/her bad potty-training, or the sociopath con people, we can only lean back and say: "We are impotent for making changes".

There are many books, I've read up to 15-20 times. It's like classical music, you can ever find a new depth or dimension in it.

PeopleSmoks
02-23-2009, 02:12 PM
Hey swede! I see your point, but still respectfully disagree with 'will' being the key to unlock the full potential of mankind. I see your examples as being only a miniscule scraping of the surface of what lies beneath. Though often associated with being a pain blocker, the body also will release endorphins to the body during times of intense pleasure, being sex, and happiness, being childhood memories.

It seems that your euphoria isn't so much an advanced level of consciousness as it is your ability to focus your thughts on such a pleasant time, which in this day and age of high stress is a bit of a trick in and of itself. The parent gaining "super" strength, is also an emotional response brought about by strong emotion, love, fear, anger and pain. Love of a child brings out a parent's protective programming, which in many cases is strong enough, especially when combined with other factors, can override the most basic of instincts, that being fear and selfpreservation.

But, fear and anger have a way of causing the release of high amounts of adrenalin to the body, with any pain simultaneously causing the release of the affore mentioned endorphins creating a sense of well being. All this in combination is enough to override the fear instict and gives the parent seemingly "super" strength. We can't generally 'will' ourselves into this mental state, but it is more a result of a stituation we may find ourselves in that brings about such emotional and physiological response. Science has no answer why some people reach this state, while others do not.

To quote swede:

"What I am trying to say is, that we already have evolved to the level, where greater potentials exist."

I see the level of our existence as being greater than what we have realized so far, but far less than we will be capable of once we have evolved to a higher level.

"Willing" one's self to obtain a higher plain of existence and having "free will" to make choices are two different things. To 'mechanize' mankind, is to remove emotions, and I once said that this is wrong. Our emotions are what makes us who and what we are as individuals. Controlling how we react to very strong emotions is what is needed. Now I'm not saying we should become 'Star Trek' Vulcans and supress our emotions, but rather to control what we do while having these emotions and not allow them to overwhelm us. This is where your 'will' comes into play, and yes, it is something that I feel will become stronger through evolution and time.

To quote swede:

"So when FSUW and WM sex-tourists occasionally behave like pigs (sorry about that, all pigs and pig-lovers), or when a criminal starts excusing him/herself with his/her bad potty-training, or the sociopath con people, we can only lean back and say: "We are impotent for making changes"."

Yes, you better apologize to pigs and pig lovers for that comparison!!![B)];)[:o)] There is no excuse for sociopathic behavior. It is an act of 'free will' as they make the choice to do what they do, be it a social unaccepted choice. Keep in mind that in some cases, such behavior is brought about through externals, such as hard economic times, where the individual reseaons that he/ she has no other recourse, although we know this not to be the case. However, I believe I had touched on this subject briefly in the past regarding FSU scammers, being that it IS socially accepted to a certain level to take western money in this way. Perhaps we can re-examine this topic?

I'm not much of a book reader. It stems from my somewhat slow reading comprehension skills. It probably took me as long to read your last post as it did for you to write it!:( My ex, the dirty little heroin junkie wh@re was an avid reader, but I was never able to get into it myself. I have heard that a person can often find little nuances in a book when rereading it that he/ she may have missed the first or even second time around if well written. I actually find this is some movies, which is more my speed.

swede
02-23-2009, 04:09 PM
Cit PeopleS:

"I see your examples as being only a miniscule scraping of the surface of what lies beneath."

True. My examples were chosen from ordinary life. But there are also examples from the area of 'what lies beneath'. I for one have seen this demonstrated in my own life (and I'm far from alone in this), when I have worked with more 'metaphysical'/transcendent aspects of existence.

The enormous quantum-jump people can experience, when they meet the first levels of socalled enlightenment, is something which has been testified through the ages from all cultures. But this doesn't come by itself (with a few exceptions), you have to do something to arrive at it.

'Will' is a strange phenomenon. We can't define it 100%, because it's not a big part of our daily lives. Just as chaos can't be defined in itself, but only as 'that which is not cosmos', 'will' is 'that which is not deterministic'. Determinism is either defined by 'god's will' overriding and planning everything or as the scientism model, where everything is a big machine. In a sense 'will' is a bit like magic. It transcends god's will and/or the natural laws.

Furthermore as you said, my 'euphoria' resulting from recreating special pleasant emotional states isn't an advanced level of consciousness. But what is called 'bliss' in certain schools of thought is. There's nothing on this planet to compare to the intensive feeling of joyful peace in bliss. This state of bliss can be obtained by most people, if they tried hard enough (I'm not saying they ought to, just that bliss is inside their reach).

Cit PeopleS:

"I see the level of our existence as being greater than what we have realized so far, but far less than we will be capable of once we have evolved to a higher level."

I do not believe, that most of us are capable of experiencing ultimate truth by snapping our fingers, but we could use our existing possibilities FAR, FAR better, than we do now. How the situation would look from optimizing what (we believe) we have now, I can only have opinions about, but I'm sure, that it would be much more functional.

Cit PeopleS:

""Willing" one's self to obtain a higher plain of existence and having "free will" to make choices are two different things."

Didn't get that one. The only difference I see is in the area of where you're making the choices. To obtain a higher plane of existence isn't to say: "I command myself to a higher plane of existence". It's a process with a lot of complex movements, like learning anything else. Just more difficult.

While I agree with you, that emotions define much of what we are, I personally like to define myself more from my intellectual function. This does not imply, that I'm trying to 'suppress' my emotions, only to make them housebroken so they know their proper place in the totality of a person.

Yes, sociopaths are actually often manifesting 'more' free will than the average citizen, insofar that they break a lot of social and moral taboos. But free will used this way has its own limitations for growth. A sociopath will eventually reach to a level of inner total emotional dysfunction, and as we seem to agree, you can't be a 'whole' person without emotions.

"Perhaps we can re-examine this topic?" (=FSU scammers finding it legitimate to scam westerners).

Sure. I have changed my parameters somewhat since we last touched upon it.

PeopleSmoks
02-24-2009, 06:52 PM
Hey swede! Generally, 'will' and 'free will' aren't that difficult to define in basic terms. 'Will' being that which is to cause an effect through one's mental state or abilities. 'Free will' is merely the ability to make a choice. Maybe you or I can choose to go left, right, learn Russian or follow the teachings of Tibetan monks, but we can't choose to run or learn faster than our current limitations allow.

I can not 'will' myself to be faster than a cheetah or more brilliant than Einstein. I can run and build my muscles, and study physics, but this will never change what I am.

Again, the feeling of 'bliss', joy, etc is the result of a chemical release in your body. Being able to cause figure out a cause for it's release is certainly a good thing.

To quote swede:

"""Willing" one's self to obtain a higher plain of existence and having "free will" to make choices are two different things."

Didn't get that one. The only difference I see is in the area of where you're making the choices. To obtain a higher plane of existence isn't to say: "I command myself to a higher plane of existence". It's a process with a lot of complex movements, like learning anything else. Just more difficult."

Exactly! A person CAN NOT 'will' him or herself to reach a higher plane of existence, and since this is what I am talking about through mankind's evolution, I think you might see what I mean. As I've been saying, I believe the areas of the brain that will permit us to obtain the highest levels can only be unlocked by evolution/ mutation. But, you seem to strongly believe that it be achieved through learning what some guru has to teach and then through our currently limited brains, be capable of reaching the same levels I see being evolutionary.

I don't see it as sociopaths manifesting 'more', or less, free will, being the right of an individual to make decisions or choices, than the rest of us, it's that they tend to make the wrong decisions, or at least decisions that most of society deems undesirable.

It's a way of life for some in the FSU to scam westerners, just like the many scammers world wide, using various scam scenarios. Socially, it isn't frowned upon as it is here. Economics being what they are in the FSU, a few have found a way to make a good living through MOB scams. It's simple survival to them. What makes FSU scammers so dubious is that they are often preying on an honest man's hopes to find a loving bride. A minority of the "Nigerian" scammers also play on emotions, but they actually will prey on bot men, women and even transsexuals like Danielle. The Nigerian scams, however, seem to focus more on greed. At least, the ones who have tried contacting me seem to be more 50/ 50. Since I'm not looking for love, dare I use that particular word, in a place other than the FSU, and I'm relatively certain that Mr. Nigel Biggles doesn't really represent the interests of Microsoft, the Nigerian scams usually go straight to my spam folder and then I dump them... unless I feel like playing with them.

But, to focus more on the FSU, it seems that the intentions of the small time scammer is merely to make a living, as is socially acceptable in their region. But, I see a trend toward more and more organized scam groups than individuals and even more , of late, toward agency and website scams.

Note that I define an agency as being the local office where girls, both honest and scammers, report in person, in their home cities. I define websites as just that, the actual website that WMs post their profiles on, look through the profiles of various ladies and spend western cash. With the mass propaganda spread by websites concerning their "anti-scam" policies, WMs are more and more being herded away from the independent scammers and toward the big websites who will "protect" the WMs from being scammed. Still, the thoughts behind the scams are pretty much the same from the individuals end... making a decent living. The websites are doing it out of greed.

I don't know exactly what things are like, economically, in Ukraine right now, but I do know that despite US economic troubles, the USD is at 8.4 to 1 verses the UAH. It was 5.5 to 1 last year and 6.5 to 1 in November when I was in Lugansk. Now, is certainly a good time to scam some US dollars! They'll certainly go a long way right now!!! Website prices haven't followed the exchange rate trend in any way. I have noticed some "discounts" and sales, but for the most part, no significant adjustments. This is because, many websites are based in the US, as our friend scamfree also pointed out.But, this is just a case of US opportunism, seeing a "free market" to further exploit.

It needs to be understood that a lot of local police are for sale. In many ways, the street cop is as much a scammer as the romance scammers. During my last visit to Lugansk, my friend Alex told me not to be alarmed that the taxi we called did not have a sign on top. The driver got out and placed it on the roof before we got in. Alex explained that some police will target taxis by stopping them and telling the driver he will receive several expensive tickets... or he can pay a small fee and the cop will let him go.

I don't currently view the average small time scammer as being much more than a nuisance to most WMs. Although, as each newbie enters the fun world of FSU/ MOB, they still have their chances to score. But, many of the websites that allow one to one correspondence are the first ones that come up on real anti-scam sites and google searches.

You'll have to excuse some of my possibly excessive babbling. It's day two for me being on a new anti-pychochotic. Not sure if it's working yet, but I haven't had any thoughts of tearing anyone's throat out with my bare hands the past two days![:0]:D[:o)];)[8D]

swede
02-25-2009, 11:39 AM
Cit PeopleS:

"Again, the feeling of 'bliss', joy, etc is the result of a chemical release in your body. Being able to cause figure out a cause for it's release is certainly a good thing."

It looks as if you may have a severe attack of scientific reductionism. The implication of your thoughts on 'bliss' is, that you reduce all human reactions to bio-chemical causes. But as you said yourself: "Being able to figure out a cause for its release .....etc" means, that there is a cause, namely how to bring about bliss. That bio-chemical processes turn up later, AFTER THE CAUSE has been effectuated I will not deny. The important part is, that I can activate an otherwise dormant potential in me.

But ofcourse the greater part of humanity has never taken the time and effort to learn how to reverse this process, i.e. making conscious choices the cause from which a bio-chemical reaction follows, instead of the opposite.

That this can be done and demonstrated is certain. There exist persons, who willfully can control some of our (otherwise) automatic functions after some training, e.g. pulse and bloodpressure. Not by just lying down and let nature do its job the job, but by the mind going straight to these bodily functions and steer them.

On my own part I have a small riddle-like situation for you. How can you bring your body, emotions and thoughts to the stillness, which is necessary for deep meditation? This is absolutely not a mechanic process, but must be done consciously. So you must DO something to make it happen. The interesting part is: From WHERE do you initiate this effort of stillness? Take an example: I want to stop my thoughts. Most beginners in meditation fight this one for years, because they usually start thinking about stop thinking. (Emotions and bodily functions can't stop thoughts either except by making you unconscious, which is not the aim). There is a paradox here, which only can be solved by supposing a level of awareness at a higher level than our 'normal' awareness. From this higher awareness you can direct the lower.

I'm not suggesting you take up meditation, but I guess that meditation technique is by now so generally well known, that the example can be used.

Own cit:

"I (can't just) command myself to a higher plane of existence". It's a process with a lot of complex movements, like learning anything else. Just more difficult."

By this I meant, that I can't will the outcome, but I can will the process leading to it.

I do not 'believe' in any gurus or their methods. PeopleS, by now you ought to know, that I'm quite anti-authorian and anti-hierachial, and that I hate belief-systems. So there's very, very little 'belief' in my methods. But ofcourse I do get inspiration from other people.

So everything I talk about in this connection is something I slowly and carefully has formulated my own ideas about and then later tested and experimented to results, answers, conclusions.

PeopleSmoks
02-25-2009, 12:43 PM
Hey swede! The new anti-psychotics are doing their job so far. They leave me a bit fuzzy in the morning, but it should get better as my body adjusts. To try to kill two birds with one stone, and part of a third, the feeling of bliss you feel when thinking of a fond memory isn't alien to me either, though I do not see myself willing myself to have such feelings. For me it IS more of a response to happy thoughts, particularly certain childhood memories.

It is as I said a bio-chemical response brought about by stimuli, usually, but obviously not always of an external nature. It a sad statement, but this is what so many drug addicts are trying to accomplish through the use of the chemicals they put in their bodies. Many of these drugs work on the pituitary gland and the hypothalamus, which are the production centers of the endorphins. Have you ever wondered why acupuncture works? A skilled acupunturist can hit the nerves that will release the endorphins and draw them to the desired areas of the body. "Real" acupunture is science.

Meditation and other forms of non-invasive or holistic healing has been around for centuries, yet it has never been a part of "mainstream" society. That doesn't mean it doesn't work. Yes, I have heard stories that when learned and applied properly, meditation can even cure internal illness. So, what you state isn't foriegn to me, and yes, it is a step in the right direction. But, my thoughts are that mankind will some day evolve to a point where this meditative state is more easily reached by all. Then, it will be on to the next level.

YOU HAVE BELIEFS!!! It doen't have to be a part of a "system". Everyone believes in something, be it a God, science, martians or even themselves. A person can believe in hope. Belief doesn't necessitaed a divinity or an organization such as a particular church. You believe in the power of meditation and self awareness, or so it would seem from where I'm sitting.

But, with all that mankind is capable of right now, I still see more in store in the future. Science also has looked at man's evolution, but more from the physiological and intellectual points and some have concluded that mankind IS still evolving. I only propose that our on going evolution includes a higher mental awareness and ability beyond that which is currently obtainable. Yes, there are a few who are on the right path, but I do not see them as having completed the journey.:)

swede
02-26-2009, 11:22 AM
Hi PeopleS,

there's a clear distinction between the effect of my fond childhood memories and 'bliss', though this is MOSTLY (but not quite) a question of quantity or intensity.

You know these big industial construction vehicles (caterpillars etc), where the engine is so big, that an ordinary electrical start-motor is insufficient. These machines have to use a normal car-sized combustion engine as a start-motor. First you start the car-engine in the normal way, than you use this to start the construction-machine engine.

It's a bit like that, when I start my process towards 'higher' states of awareness. I use my ordinary-life possibilities to 'fire' myself to the next level. Though 'fire' is maybe the wrong word, as the idea is, that I want to acchieve a relaxed state. The body is normally very easy to relax, it answers soon to physical relaxation methods like a dog to training, so this is no problem.Emotions are somewhat more difficult, and this is where I can use my fond childhood memories, same as with the small car engine, to start the more 'heavy' or inaccessible emotional parts of me.

When I'm swimming happily around in this sea of cosmic bliss, I can then turn my attention to my thoughts and still them also.

Apart from my personal aim of acchieving a quantum-jump, new-dimensional awareness (which is qualitatively different from a standard awareness. It's not only a question of intensity), there exists, as you wrote, some beneficial side-effects from this process. And as it's not my intention to save you to my worldview-model, maybe I will just stick with the effects of awareness transmutation on ordinary life.

Though not going so far as I once saw an advertisement (OFCOURSE from US): 'Meditate and make $$$$$$$$$', but I will take this ad as an example of the humanity's present plights.

Formerly the middleclass person had a position or situation in life, s/he could feel safe with. Not safe as in being especially strong or insightfull or on top of the world, but safe in a sheepwalking way, where routines made a pleasant lull; living packaged in cottonwool. Usually big changes didn't occur in form of catastrophes etc. You know who you are, you have an identity as a person in a social context, you know your purpose the same way, and you are seldom exposed to threats of change (sheepwalkers hate change).

It was all cute, safe, re-assuring and empty, and as I remember, that you also have expressed enthusiasm about Thorne Smith's books, you know, that his humour was mainly about making fun of this middleclass-world.

We are not in a Thorne Smith'sk middleclass-world any more. I'm old enough to remember, and having tried, the time when big-scale production, like in factories, mainly was based on manual labour. The machines which existed were mostly quite primitive, and all the complex (but manual) jobs were left to people. With the advent of advanced techology the last 30-40 years, all this changed.

Technology, of any kind, is now the center of western life. And while I can see big advantages from it, I also see the dangers. With modern technology everything is speeded up. Humans have to compete with the machines in the job-situation. Communication has developed to the point, where even grown-ups relate to others by teen-age like incessant babblings about nothing. (SMS or e-mails informing everybody, that you are now in the bathroom and later intend to drink coffee. Or efforts of humour on 'funny' greeting-card level). We are exposed to socalled 'information' in avalanche-like proportions (and the speed, direction and manipulation of this 'information' makes us feel small and insignificant) and we're recieving an endless stream of entertainment of moronic quality.

Sad to say, a lot of this social insanity originates from US. As a nation you have now finally supplanted Jehova with the god Mammon, and Jehova has taken the role as secretary of state for 'cosmetic public morality'. I'm not accusing the american people of being especially evil-minded, they have just been the victims of the historical emerge of technology before most other nations.

In world where this kind of insanity is becoming the norm, those trying to become sane will ofcourse be considered the real crazies. But never mind, I never consented to take the WHOLE package of technology, I take what I want and need and turn my back on the rest. And I don't care about the impression this makes on other people.

I certainly have the steam up today, but my little sermon here doesn't mean, that I usually carry around a placard with: 'The end is at hand'.

My reason for being so many-worded today is, that I'm trying to knot a few of the recent topics into a pattern. My own excursions into meditation- and weirdoland is an effort to find an anti-dote for the accelerating madness. And whatever anti-dotes I have found are based on experimentation and pragmatism, not on belief. This is one part of combining our rect topics together.

The other part is, that scamming seems to be an ever growing part of western society. I'm not talking about scamming as only in FSUW scamming, but scamming as a part of relations between people, in businesslife and politically between nations. And as this tough grabbing philosophy, unburdened by ethics, is at the present most clearly manifested in the west. It's no wonder, that FSU, Africa, and to a lesser degree Asia, get the idea, that it's OK to scam. We're doing it to each other here, or at best only accepting a social model, where this is the norm. Why shouldn't the non-westeners do it also.

The rest of the western socalled civilisation is being forced upon them, often against their will, so it would be unreasonable to hope, that they as victims should show a higher morality than the west does.

What I say now is, that we are experiencing a deep existential illness, it's contagious and answers lie in what directions we as individuals take in life (maybe my answer, changing awareness level, isn't the correct or only one, but at least it's a try).

PeopleSmoks
03-03-2009, 02:38 PM
Hey swede! The knee surgery went well and I'm on the road to a speedy recovery!

As for the subject of evolution v 'willing' one's self to a higher state of existence, we are miles apart in what we each believe. I do not see your approach as viable when less than 1% of the world population can make claims even approaching anything close to what I am talking about. That in and of itself is a whole different bag of beans, so to speak, since as I see it, mankind is incapable of reaching the levels I propose within the limitaions of our present condition. I also see it as a difference in how we each define certain things. By my definition of higher levels of existence, it is just that, higher than what we are capable of. No ifs ands or buts...

All the Tibetan monks in the world could not reach what I am referring to without evolving to a condition to which the levels I speak of are possible. Saying a person can 'will' him/ herself to be more than the person is capable is like saying we will start a space colony on Mars next week. We are simply not capable, although we can invision a future where we might be capable.

Your personal experiences are your own and I really can't say much about them.

I will say that you are dead wrong in some ways about sheepwalkers hating change. Just look at US politics. If you want to get elected, all a person has to do is say he or she is the candidate that represents 'change'. People in this country are so blind that they forget the change they are voting for today is the same crap they voted against in the last election. Sheepwalkers always want change because change represents the blind faith being peddled to them by the power brokers of the world. Change is a false hope for the sheepwalker to cling to as their lives are manipulated by those envoking the so called changes.

swede
03-03-2009, 08:25 PM
Cit PeopleS:

"Saying a person can 'will' him/ herself to be more than the person is capable is like saying we will start a space colony on Mars next week. We are simply not capable, although we can invision a future where we might be capable."

I'm aware of our different opinions, but the question is, if there exist some basic assumptions, we can share. E.g. I don't mean, that a possible change can be done in a split second, but a decision (a choice) can be made to start a process in a certain direction with lesser or greater involvement or enthusiasm. It's the actual 'speed' of this process, I think we disagree about.

(A short apropos concerning Mars colonies. Some conspiracy buffs postulate, that we already have such).

What we ARE 'capable' is the key-point. Do you mean 'capable of' as in having a passive potential for (like 90% unused brain-capacity), or as in being able to find motivation for?

What methods of evaluating such a question as human potential would you find acceptable. Any authority, a 'home-grown' system or just plain 'faith'?
Cit:

"By my definition of higher levels of existence, it is just that, higher than what we are capable of. No ifs ands or buts..."

Not trying to be demagogic, but I must have missed your definition about what 'higher' means. Our ability to kill other biological beings; our ethics; being 'closer' a to supposed supreme being; our capacity for hedonistic pleasure? Apart from the relative answer to this, the standard model of evolution also includes the possibility of degeneration, a point not completely irrelevant.

You're quite right in your opinion, that sheepwalkers possibly vote for change. But if such a change actually took place, and implied any kind of effort on their part, they would start to grumble. Whereas a passive wallet-reinforcement probably would be recieved well as an expression of minor greed.

PS My personal experiences are not completely isolated phenomena. I share them with quite a few people, who present similar evidence as mine.

PeopleSmoks
03-04-2009, 03:28 AM
Hey swede! I would say that the only point at which I see 'will' having any affect is that a person can make the decision to embark on a particular path. This doesn't mean that he will be able to complete such a journey since he simply doesn't have the ability to get to the place I am speaking of. Since mankind doesn't have what is necessary to reach the higher levels I presribe, all the will one can have is not enough. I do see mankind as having the ability to realize a greater potential to utilize that which is already present prior to any evolutionary changes however. To obtain this, mankind does have all that is needed, and in place, or turned on.

As for conspiracy theorists, let the one's you wrote about argue their points with the one's who say the moon landings were done on a sound stage in Hollywood.[xx(]

Capable is that which we can do. I don't know how to make it any plainer than to carefully repeat what I have already written...

1) Mankind has all of the physical parts necessary to ascend to a higher level of existence, being that which is as close to an all knowing and all seeing being, without actually being a God.
2) We don't fully utilize approxiately 90% of the full potential of the brain. There's a nightlight on, but that's about all the electrical activity there is.
3) The ONLY way mankind will ever be able to utilize the full potential of the human brain is after nature slowly "unlocks" these mysterious areas via evolution/ mutation.
4) The so-called enlightenment presently obtainable by eastern mystics, Buddhists, Tibetan monks, etc, is nothing more than the full use of maybe 11% of the brain to reach a level slightly higher than that which most will reach.
5) No matter how much an individual may want to "turn on" the remaining 90% of the brain, it is simply NOT a matter of choice to do so. A person can choose to use all that he/ she has access to, but nothing more than nature allows.
6) Higher = more than, greater than, above what is present, more than currently shown, superior to that being compared to it, of an increased level or degree, raised above...

I don't believe that at any point have I made mention of killing anything or hedonistic pleasure. The apparent assumption being that since a preditory model is the base for the process that the end result would have to be a self-centered preditor. Not the case as I have explained several times before.

As for sheepwalkers voting for change, in the US, that's all they do. People always piss and moan about the way things are. It's always better around the corner. What we will have tomorrow is always better than what we have today... So, in walks the next preditor promising change! The only thing that ever changes is which preditory political party will reap the benefits of the sheepwalkers' labors during the next 4 years.[V]

The lack of effort has a lot to do with it as is usually the case with sheepwalkers. They don't want to be bothered with such tedious inconveniences like... thinking! They are told their lives suck. Then they are told which person will fix it for them. That way, no strain is even put on the 10% of the brain they could use if they wanted to be bothered with it. Which again goes to my point that even though we currently have the potential to utilize 10% or maybe 11% or even 12% of our brains, the average sheepwalker seems to use even less than the potential that is available.

swede
03-04-2009, 01:35 PM
PeopleS,

I did absolutely not mean to imply, that you as a person in any way ever have advocated the more self-gratifying suggestions of evolutionary goals (e.g. hedonism or 'might is right'). I mentioned such options to demonstrate the necessity of defining what 'higher' (evolution) means precisely, as there do exist people, who adhere to these definitions, whether they do it passively just practising it or actively through a clearcut definition.

The average gold-digger/scammer, who doesn't scam out of survival necessity, but only for enhanced status-seeking, will probably never formulate a 'philosophy' about it, but nonetheless practise hedonism, while some groups defending 'might is right' (power, strength etc) can be quite articulate. Example german nazism and associated groups.

Cit PeopleS:

" 6) Higher = more than, greater than, above what is present, more than currently shown, superior to that being compared to it, of an increased level or degree, raised above..."
and:

"1) Mankind has all of the physical parts necessary to ascend to a higher level of existence, that being that which is as close to being an all knowing and all seeing being, without actually being a God."

I take it, that these two paragraphs together form your basis for optimal evolution. Now we have a common startingpoint, as I also propose this. That I would have called "as close to being an all knowing and all seeing being....." for 'experiencing ultimate reality', is a minor semantic detail, as long as we recognize the implications of this distinction.

Before I go into the possibility of such an 'extra'-high developement/change/evolution, I will turn my attention to the more ordinary-life decisions or choices, we make all the time. To take your situation with your heroin ex-girlfriend. You probably expected from her, that she would make a change concerning her addiction, at least to a degree, where she would be socially functional. As I take it, she didn't want to do that, and then YOU made the decision to terminate your relationship.

As Prometheus recently remarked, there are app. 6 billion belief-systems on the planet; one for each person. And as a general rule I suggest the following way of dealing with the unavoidable disagreements arising from this. In any relationship, be it individual, social/political, ideological or for 'truth-seeking' different belief-systems will meet. Human beings are so used to consider their favourite belief-system as a territory to defend, that possible similarities between belief-systems are considered of minor importance. The mainpoint is to defend your own belief-systen as an untouchable whole, even to the point of open conflict. We center more on the differences than we do on similarities. But the possibilty of turning our attention to similarities is close at hand, and not very difficult to use.

Ofcourse there exist quite a lot of belief-systems, which are completely incompatible. And I would personally count your former relationship as such a situation. No-one can live together with a fullscale junkie (I have tried it on a few occasions myself, though not in a 'couple'-relationship. It was unbearable). But still most people will eventually make a CHOICE of walking out. Some will make a 'small' choice passively by waiting until the situation forces them to it, others will make a 'big' choice more actively.

Keeping this in mind (looking for similarities instead of differences), I'll continue to the possibilites of a change to a higher level of existence, as defined above.

Cit PeopleS:

"........I do see mankind as having the ability to realize a greater potential to utilize that which is already present prior to any evolutionary changes however. To obtain this, mankind does have all that is needed, and in place, or turned on."

I'm not quite sure I get the meaning of this, so a clarification would help me. I understood the first half of that paragraph, but not in context with the last part cited above. It could be a simple question of language problems.

But I will continue along lines taken from other parts of your recent posts.

Cit PeopleS:


"5) No matter how much an individual may want to "turn on" the remaining 90% of the brain, it is simply NOT a matter of choice to do so. A person can choose to use all that he/ she has access to, but nothing more than nature allows."

On what basis do you formulate this postulate? While the evidence for or against it isn't enormous, we still have enough factual knowledge pointing in the other direction (of this statement). We have psychological models giving plausible explanations for our limitations. 'Territorial' belief-system behaviour, which is defended by individual filters, used to reinforce the 'validity' of our chosen belief-system. That such filters can be changed at a deep level is clearly demonstrated practically. E.g. the addict using the AA procedure is doing it. Also the idea, that we screen ourselves of from important information/communication by creating personal intellectual white noise (letting thoughts play endless repeat performances, leaving no space for creative thinking) etc.

At a practical level many effective and accesible methods exist, by which changes can be acchieved. Methods of a complete non-technological type (initiation rites, meditation/relaxation techniques, some religious practices, mind-expanding drugs) and others based on technology as audio systems for synchronizing the brain-hemispheres or light-sequences creating altered mindstates (never tried that one though). Or intellectual tools like neuro-linguistic re-programming.

Now I'm ofocurse making a guess as to your objections, but I have the impression, that what you suggest is missing for benefitting from these options is a personal, psychological and motivational 'trigger' in the average person, and this is what makes you distinguish between eastern mystics etc and the norm person. Whether a mystic enlarges his capacity from 10 to 11 % is difficult to form an opinion about, but let's use that example. Seen from a 100% utility of our potential, 1 % extra doesn't look like much. But seen from a 10 % utility 1 extra percent is an addition of 10 % utility compared to the starting point. And it does make a world of difference with this additional tenth part to the original. They can give the opportunity of still further growth and so on. This is demonstrable.

Anybody can, to some degree according to personal goals, use such methods of personal growth. And quite a few people DO this, some of them without any background of idealism or religious inclination, only for utility reasons. An example I'm personal familiar with is the audio-technique used for brain-hemisphere synchronization. This is an extremely simple and accesible method, giving an avalanche effect on our whole/totality of being. It ofcourse starts with the actual brain-hemispere synchronization, actualized through creating the socalled alpha-wave brain-pattern. Being in the alpha brain-wave state makes it possible for the left and right brain-hemisphere to make linear and pattern-based thinking work in tandem, instead of being at odds (which is the normal state for many people). From there different options exist. A person can use it for going into deep meditation, for simple relaxed enjoyment (anti-stress) or for activating bodily processes needed for optimal physical wellbeing (the system is used in many hospitals as a pre- or postoperational support for quicker recovery).

Anybody owning audio-equipment and $50-100 for tapes/CDs can within a week or two greatly benefit from this existence-enhancing method with a minimum of personal effort. The method is extremely well-documented, but the question is ofcourse if a person CHOOSES to use it or not.

But absolutely 'free will' (in whatever available quantity) is a subject which deserves its own analysis.

PS While I find conspiracy theories fascinating, and with much evidence of 'something' going on, it's at the present impossible to see if if intenational banking, political ideologies, religious fanatics, CIA, ETs or entities from other dimensions are masquerading as each other or whatever is the answer. But it would be wrong to dismiss the evidence because of the inconclusive explanations.

PSS Sorry I forgot to congratulate you on your successful operation.

PeopleSmoks
03-06-2009, 07:26 PM
Hey swede!

To quote swede:

"I did absolutely not mean to imply, that you as a person in any way ever have advocated the more self-gratifying suggestions of evolutionary goals (e.g. hedonism or 'might is right')."

During the discussion of evolution not needing symbiosis, I stated that, evolution would bring mankind to a point of not merely knowing right from wrong, but to also have the mind set to CHOOSE right from wrong. In other words to also gain a higher moral stand. The hard part is tippy toeing around divinity when having a discussion with you, but to put it frankly, take all the good and kind aspects of biblical living and you have the basics of the moral picture.

The moral issue is the key, because without a strong moral center, all of the other ideals fall apart and could potentially lead to the self-destruction that you seem to fear from our predatory nature. So, you could also define "higher" as divine, if you wish.

To quote swede:

"Cit PeopleS:

" 6) Higher = more than, greater than, above what is present, more than currently shown, superior to that being compared to it, of an increased level or degree, raised above..."
and:

"1) Mankind has all of the physical parts necessary to ascend to a higher level of existence, that being that which is as close to being an all knowing and all seeing being, without actually being a God."

I take it, that these two paragraphs together form your basis for optimal evolution. Now we have a common startingpoint, as I also propose this. That I would have called "as close to being an all knowing and all seeing being....." for 'experiencing ultimate reality', is a minor semantic detail, as long as we recognize the implications of this distinction."

If you want to take two out of six statements to fit in the way you wish them to fit, be my guest, but anytime you take items out of context they will tend to lose the original meaning as set forth by the author. But, to pick one or two myself, I would say #3 and #5 cut to my point pretty quickly. This being the end game, as opposed to a starting point.

It's funny that you mention my ex, having just received a letter from her today proclaiming that she has remained "clean" for the past 2 1/2 years, and that she owes her life to me. That's nice... so she's not a junkie any longer, but I wonder how that being a whore thing is working out for her? I was willing to work with her on the drug problem, but her spreading her legs outside my bedroom was the reason her ass is gone.

To qoute swede:

"Cit PeopleS:

"........I do see mankind as having the ability to realize a greater potential to utilize that which is already present prior to any evolutionary changes however. To obtain this, mankind does have all that is needed, and in place, or turned on."

I'm not quite sure I get the meaning of this, so a clarification would help me. I understood the first half of that paragraph, but not in context with the last part cited above. It could be a simple question of language problems."

As it is said that we use only 10% of our brains, I say we can more fully use this. We have a potential of 10%, and as I said, some may possibly reach 11% or even 12%. One of the things that holds us back from making an evolutionary leap forward is that we often do not seem to live up to the 10%, an example of this being sheepwalkers. Those who have that edge of 11% or 12% potential often seem to fully utilize this seemingly small, but relatively sizable advantage. These are the ones we see as genius or the deep meditation types may also fit into this group, but not to say that they are remarkably advanced as would be the case through an evolutionary change. One of the things that I see as retarding our evolution is the fact that we generally don't quite live up to the 10% in the first place.

As I allow for mutation within the species, as it can be said it is well documented, such can account for those who's mental abilities extends to the 11% and 12% levels. Mutation is a normal abnormality within nature. Mutation however usually only affects a very small percentage of a species and is usually not passed on genetically. In other words, the child of a genius will probably NOT be a genius.

To quote swede:

"Cit PeopleS:


"5) No matter how much an individual may want to "turn on" the remaining 90% of the brain, it is simply NOT a matter of choice to do so. A person can choose to use all that he/ she has access to, but nothing more than nature allows."

On what basis do you formulate this postulate?"

On what do you base any contradiction? Ahhhhhhhh! Your beliefs!!! You believe that an individual can 'will' him or herself to a higher state, while I say he can only do that which evolution will allow. There is no scientific evidence of 'willing' happening. If it were possible, wouldn't everyone be doing it? I see it as you confusing an almost insignificant anomaly, reaching 11% or 12%, with opening a new level of existence. Basically, so what if an insignificantly small percentage of the population, less than 1% of 1%, can put themselves in a trance that they confuse with true enlightenment? By that reasoning, I am regularly enlightened after my twelth or twentieth beer. I reach a state of calm and peace and am fully aware of the world and my place in it. We have already covered the fact that people who still view women as inferior are not truly enlightened. The fact is that most of these monks and priests are sensory self-deprived, having little or no contact outside the walls of their own walls. They BELIEVE they have reached a certain level which nature says they can't.

The full utilization of the human brain depends on a great number of factors. Like a muscle, it requires constant exercise. The 1% of 1% merely are exercising a part of the brain which most do not. Thus, the ability to learn, let's say Russian, at the age of 45. However, it can be reasoned that through the evolutionary process, the baseline will be raised to where it becomes more of a basic function and learning certain things would be easier.

http://www.world-science.net/exclusives/070326_evolution.htm

The knee is doing well. Surprisingly, the only pain is from the incisions.

swede
03-09-2009, 12:35 PM
Cit PeopleS:

"You believe that an individual can 'will' him or herself to a higher state, while I say he can only do that which evolution will allow. There is no scientific evidence of 'willing' happening."

There's also no scietific evidence of 'willing' not happening. For the simple reason, that science isn't especially competent in this area. You can just as well ask a priest or a guy at the pub. They are just as qualified.

My suggestion isn't, that 'willing' is a process, where we can go straight from 'will' (without any intermediaries) to directly influencing our degree of 'enligtenment'. While 'magic' (transcending ordinary life manifestations) is a theoretical possibility, as e.g. instantly changing our being at a deep level, or performing meta- or paraphysical acts, that's not what I intended.

What I tried to say is, that inside the scope of ordinary consciousness it is possible to make decisions (choosing, 'willing') such processes, as can lead us to a degree of higher existential functionality, i.e. using our potential more fully. At least some of those examples of methods I brought up ARE verified (meditation, hemisphere syncronization....) to acchieve this aim.

There's nothing especially unattainable or mystic about such methods, they are not more difficult to use than to get a driver's license (which can be bad enough for some people, but usually not impossible). When it comes to it, this is just the same as exercising any other potential we have (learning languages or rollerscating). The limit is our personal motivation.

The discussion has now come to a point, where the subjects 'evidence' and 'belief' are getting central importance. Epistemology. You mention, that monks etc through sensory deprivation experience certain states/situations. From what basis can these experiences be evaluated as evidential or not? Science, psychology, religion or sheer quantity (how many persons have these experiences, and how do they compare)?

Ofcourse it's clearly an advantage to have experienced or have some firsthand knowledge of any 'evidence' before evaluating it. Besides, if we present conclusions, we must also state the 'perspective', from which we observe and examine. At least for the purpose of communication. Otherwise such 'conclusions' will turn into: "Is", ..."isn't", ..."is", which doesn't lead anywhere.

Most human methods for finding truth (and thereby the 'conclusions arrived at), are in one way or another insufficient. We can find 'local' parts on our maps of reality, which fairly accurately describes their own part of the 'territory', but not ALL the territory (of reality). Including science, which while covering its own ground rather well, certainly has some (selfchosen) blind spots.

I'm not trying to introduce sloppy thinking by suggesting, that all 'truths' are true in a relative sense. There are conclusions, which are more accurate or 'true' than others, but they are still only approximatively true compared to ultimate reality. This is not central for this post. Only to prevent suspicions of a philosophy for morons.

PeopleSmoks
03-09-2009, 01:59 PM
Hey swede! The problem is simple. The levels you are talking about, when compared to what I am talking about is like comparing the number 11 to infinitum.

swede
03-10-2009, 01:32 PM
GGB (great grandfather badger), who is a kind of spokesman, or rather spokesbadger, for the wisdom of the forefathers (and ofcourse foremothers) has asked me to post this:

"Because of long, dark and boring winter evenings, dumb blondes invent many words and many things. But never invent petfood for badgers. Now spirits angry."

Honestly, half of the time I don't know, what he's talking about.

With this, and unless something really fascinating turns up, I would like to announce my (possible gradual) retirement from this forum. For me 'psychobabbling' has run its course, and I will continue my exploration of infinity elsewhere.

So for the time being, thanks to all readers and contributors (naturally and especially PeopleS) for joining. It's been a great time. Also thanks to admin of the forum for liberal allowance of our wild digressions. May you all escape the attention of the unintelligent designer of the universe and live your lives in peace.

Prometheus
03-11-2009, 08:20 PM
quote:Originally posted by swede
[br]GGB (great grandfather badger), who is a kind of spokesman, or rather spokesbadger, for the wisdom of the forefathers (and ofcourse foremothers) has asked me to post this:

"Because of long, dark and boring winter evenings, dumb blondes invent many words and many things. But never invent petfood for badgers. Now spirits angry."

Honestly, half of the time I don't know, what he's talking about.

With this, and unless something really fascinating turns up, I would like to announce my (possible gradual) retirement from this forum. For me 'psychobabbling' has run its course, and I will continue my exploration of infinity elsewhere.

So for the time being, thanks to all readers and contributors (naturally and especially PeopleS) for joining. It's been a great time. Also thanks to admin of the forum for liberal allowance of our wild digressions. May you all escape the attention of the unintelligent designer of the universe and live your lives in peace.


Well done Swede, thanks. I"m trying to find the time to post all the Eustace Haney letters I've collected the last couple of months. RULadys, URLadys, and all the other Confidential Connection clones are at it again. And... so proud to say this... FSU MOB is out of the house... took Child Protection Services (CPS) to do it, but FINALLY! Whew! Man, I thought this day would never arrive. Absolutely unbelievable.

PeopleSmoks
03-18-2009, 05:14 PM
Hey guys! swede, you will be missed. I hope all is well and that your future is bright. Thanks for the good times here at psychobabbling!

Prometheus, I hope things finally work out for you.

I'm continuing my contact with my FSU huny. I'll only know for sure what the future will be after my next trip. We all know there are certain signals given that a guy can pretty much expect on a second trip since any apprehension and first meeting jitters should be long gone at that point. As I say... we'll see...

In the mean time, things have been kind of weird around Stately Smoks Manor lately. I received a letter from my ex a few weeks ago telling me she has finally straightened herself out, and even more surprising, I ran into the one before her at the local Walgreens (pharmacy). I have to admit, she looked damn good! But, not good enough to overcome past baggage! (... for more than a one time quicky anyway!):D

Prometheus
03-26-2012, 06:13 PM
She got back ine the house twice again, but this summer will mark a year of FSU MOB freedom. Damn it's been an impossibly difficult, tough road, but so worth it to be done. She's got her NS-400 on file for citizenship, a new apartment, a new job, and six boyfriends. I'm finally enjoying life again at the mid-century mark with a calm and caring girlfriend, and my children.