View Full Version : Poor and rich people exist everywhere

07-31-2004, 04:24 PM

It was a posting (read below) of Southamerican in "Travelling to woman's country" forum. After we have read it, we decided to make a new forum "How poor are really people in Russia?". We think that it must be very interesting discussion for our visitors. Thank's to Southamerican for a good idea.

Best regards,

Posted - Jul 31 2004 : 10:46:59

Hello all the guys in the forum

Maybe this post does not exactly matches the topic you're discussing but it was something that came to my mind after I read Ray's post about a girl in Russia who seemed to have many things (and who was considered suspicious for these)

How poor are really people in Russia? Is it true that almost all people in Russia have very low salaries ($200 or less a month) and that they cannot afford a trip abroad or a stereo or have a credit card?

My country Argentina (as well as all most other countries in South America) is considered poor by American and Europeans. We don't have the technology of the Russians nor did we ever had a spacecraft sent to the space, but still many young single women here have new cars, stereos, cell phones, credit cards, big houses or nice apartments and have visited some foreign countries (some because they are successful in their jobs and some others because of a wealthy family). And still some of these "wealthy" ladies want to marry an American or a European man... Ok...It's true that the majority of our population don't have those things but there exist poor and rich people everywhere... even in the USA and Europe right?

Now I really wonder... how can possibly all Russian girls be so poor... if their country is much more developed and "important" than mine? Well I'm also looking for a Russian girl...but I'm really concerned about this... Aren't there wealthy young single ladies in Russia? How can a country that was so powerful in the past have all their citizens living in poverty?


Lone Gunman
07-31-2004, 07:03 PM
This is a vast, complex issue. In my opinion not quite suitable in a forum as this, because of it's complexity. It contains a variety of political questions of different levels as well as plainly about traditions and human behavior.

In short, and basically:

First of all, Russia is neither politically or geographically as USSR, so don't mix them up. USSR launched MIR, Russia didn't.

To relocate overseas s a BIG step to make, people tend to do it just for:
Tax reasons if their wealth REALLY have grown.
Or out of poverty.
A few of us humans make it as a career move.

We humans tend to think "the grass is greener on the other side".

Add in some male vodka abuse, and figure out for your self, and select what is the most applicable reason for today's Russian women, to be on dating sites.

The industrious ones may think; Stay, and let the money come to you, couldn't they????

But there are so many, many views left in this topic......

- We have, but of course, poor people in western Europe too.

See ya

08-01-2004, 11:08 AM
Russian women usually say they want to leave their countries because they can't find suitable men there. They say Russian men are unpolite and treat them as sexual objects... Do you think this could really be the reason why they want to marry a foreigner?

It's true that some girls want to marry a foreigner because they think that they have more money than local men. But I dont think this is the only reason why some people want to relocate. For example many Argentinian women think that we, latin men, are too sexist because we don't like to cook, wash the dishes, clean the house or help with the babies... as supposedly you Western Europe and American men do (Do you really help so?) and that's a reason why many latin women want to marry foreigners too. Also we,latin men, dont usually like divorced women with children and I suppose men in rich countries dont matter so much about this...

Now it's true that sometimes women think that they may be better in rich countries because they hear that any clerical worker can easyly make more than $2000 or $2500 a month, but the truth is that $2500 in Western Europe buy the same things $500 can buy in Latin America.

In my country (Argentina) $200 can buy a lot more than in the USA or Europe. I have been in New York and London and I could easily spend more than $ 200 in a single day (hotel + taxi + restaurant)... but in less developed countries, services are not that expensive. Just to give an example you can rent a small apartment in a working class neighborhood for $100 and easily you can eat for a month with the other $100. So I wonder... can't it be the same in Russia?

So let's say a salary of $1000 buys you a good lifestyle here (nice apartment, car, good food, good clothes) but if you don't know about prices in my country you could think that a girl with a $1000 salary is poor... because surely a girl in Western Europe with that salary would be below poverty line.

But the question is... Is it that hard for a Russian girl to afford nice clothes, a basic computer and eventually one trip abroad with, let's say a $400 salary, specially if she still lives with her parents?. Any young Argentinian girl with a salary of $400 and who lives with her parents (and most do!) could easily afford clothes, computer, cable tv and an eventual trip overseas (if she's wise enough to save half or her salary every month)... Well I don't know Russia but I wonder if it could be the same there... So should we be suspicious if a Russian woman says she has her own computer or has traveled abroad?

Lone Gunman
08-01-2004, 10:43 PM

The question/s about possible savings and so on, isn't valid until one could correctly estimate pressure of taxes and everyday living expenses.

Nobody has the right to be suspicious about any tokens of living standard. The behavior solely divides the scammer from the "real" woman, is my opinion.

See ya

08-03-2004, 01:56 AM
Having read the latest topic,it`s difficult to believe that one person(southamerican)can think so little of another persons country without witnessing it first hand,just because these things don`t happen in his own country.
It`s true,many of these young women are on very low wages and many of them still live with there parents.Most of them are very highly educated,but still they can`t get work in the field that they studied for,because it`s still very much male orgintated.
It`s only the major cities of Russia and the Ukraine that have the technology for the internet and computors and it is very expensive!even using the internet cafes can take alot of money.
l`ve witness first hand how the rich treat the lower paid worker in Russia and the Ukraine and it`s not very pleasant to see.
Also remember,that it wasnt the Russian people that put a rocket into space,it was the government of that time and the people did suffer for that so called,Space Race!
This women are brought up with very strong family values,they believe in the home looking after there children and looking good for there man.Not ever women from these countries want to leave,there are very happy with there lives.
Please give these young ladies a chance,don`t start judging them before you meet them.They are very polite,warm and very loving.
Keep an open mind,don`t judge there country against yours,because no matter what country we come from,there is good and bad things that we all don`t like about our own.

08-03-2004, 02:50 PM
It was not my intention to judge Russian women. I think "pasadena" didnt undertand my point. What I wanted to do by writing this post is letting you (people who live in rich countries) know what the reality is in the so called "third world". Moreover my intention was to say that we must not necessarily be suspicious of Russian woman because they have a computer or any other thing... But when I wrote my first post I did it in another forum and it was in reply to an Italian man who had written that he thought that a woman could be a scammer because she had computer, stereo and had traveled abroad. But then the administrator decided to create a forum with my post...

It's true that I dont know Russia... but I do know many poor or "third world" countries as well as many rich countries too, and
when I have been in rich countries I have usually found that people there have a mistaken idea of the life in our countries... Many people usually think that everybody is poor and that everybody is crazy to relocate in a rich nation... And that's not true. And I do believe when someone says that Russian women dont want to leave their countries.

Now I must also say that the girl I am writing to, told me that she had recently visited a couple of countries in Western Europe, and I must confess that this sole fact made me feel very suspicious about her... because I know some countries in Western Europe and I know how expensive it may be to spend a night in a hotel or pay for a meal... but then I realized that in my country which is poor, also there are young single women who have been to Europe... and I said to myself... maybe that's her case. However after reading so many articles about Russian women I am very confused, because according to those articles it seems to be that all Russian women who look for a man abroad are poor.

Now the question is... Are there middle class or wealthy young russian ladies? If yes, do these wealthy russian ladies want to find a man abroad? I hope someone in the forum, someone who has visited Russia can give me a answer.

However the girl who is writing me has sent me a letter in which she says that she wants to meet me "as soon as posible" and this is something that has made me feel extremely suspicious because we've been emailing for a little more than a month... so I'm just waiting for the moment in which she ask me for money... a moment in which I'll ask her "and how did you pay for your trip to western Europe?"... or maybe... I'll be lucky to have found a wealthy Russian lady who will come to me with her own money... but I am almost sure that given the situation (just a few weeks of emails)this will be harder than a miracle.

08-03-2004, 09:45 PM
Hi Southamerican,
Firstly,if l miss understood your main letter,then please except my apologies.
l have lived and worked in Russia and the Ukraine on and off since 1992 and even though l`m now based in the UK,l still make regular trips to these two wonderful countries.
There are wealthy women looking for men from other countries and it`s true they do have access to overseas holidays,fancy clothes etc,mainly because this is due to them owing there own bussiness.
Many of the young ladies that you may come into contact with are students and many have had the chance to travel to another country mainly as exchange students.
Unless they come from a wealthy family or have been an exchange student,it`s very unlikely that these girls have ever travelled outside of there own country,due to the high cost.
Some,would rather meet sooner rather than later and it`s very normal for them to invite you to there country where they feel safe and surrounded by family and friends,instead of them coming to you.This also helps them to decided how serious you really are about meeting them.
If your unsure about some of her emails ask her the questions that you feel need answering,if she`s genuine then she will give an honest answer.Remember,no self respecting young lady from Russia or the Ukraine will ask you for money or any other kind of help!If they need help they will ask there families.
l hope this helps.

08-28-2004, 09:12 AM
We need to respect these wonderful, pretty russian women. Men with or without money respect these women and this great country that is the Russia. They deserve all money of the world for them to want to marry. Women do not think today about marriage , however the pretty russian women think about constructing her homes. The true man will go for Russia and there with certainty he will find the true love. Men do not need to send money but if sent, do not make these types of commentaries on these wonderful women when to fall in these blows, therefore could be gang that is applying these blows. I ask for excuses for not knowing English. Ricardo from Brazil.

10-09-2004, 01:32 AM
I doubt that "SouthAmerican" would ever have the opportunity to meet, say, a Belarussian girl earning 1000$ per month -- such a girl would be rich on Belarussian standards; were she from a provincial city like Mogilev rather than the capital Minsk, she would live especially well. Such a girl would not advertise on the internet for a husband and she would not be willing to emigrate.

"SouthAmerican" is a little imprecise. He ought to be speaking of the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS) which consists of 11 of the 15 former Soviet Socialist Republics of the ex-USSR excluding: the Baltic States (Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania) and Georgia. The CIS is a bit of a misnomer as the "wealth" is not "common" ie evenly distributed with only some few Russian localities, preeminently Moscow, boasting a fairly vibrant economy. [Moscow is ranked as one of the most expensive cities in the world -- well ahead of New York and London.] In general, the more peripheral from Moscow, the greater the poverty* -- take for instance Central Asia...

I happen to have met an Uzbek woman whose principal trait was pride.

I ask her "Why are you so proud?

She answers because "I'm from the former USSR."

"Haven't you heard," I retort, " the USSR collapsed well over ten years ago? Why do you insist on living in the past?"

She snaps back, "My uncle was #5 in the KGB in Uzbekistan, the members of my family enjoyed high salaries denominated in roubles at a time when 2$=1 rouble, we owned our own cars when ownership of cars was a rarity, we enjoyed free healthcare, free education. The great United States was awed by our military might. DO YOU THINK IF THE SOVIET UNION STILL SURVIVED I'D BE GOING ON THE INTERNET LOOKING FOR A WESTERN MAN??? Frankly, I don't even like Americans!"

A lean existance prevails on the streets of Chilonzar in Tashkent, Uzbekistan. The standard of living has declined there since Soviet times. This has been generally true of the non-Russian CIS country members.

However, it doesn't mean that girls are lining up in droves to leave their countries. Actually, in Ukraine, one can detect even a societal stigma being attached to girls marrying foreigners with a view to emigration unless either it is a very "good" marriage, particularly from the financial perspective of the bride's family, or the girl's family is really destitute ie the girl has a choice between marriage or prostitution abroad. (Those one month trip's to Dubai leave very little room for doubt.)

Which raises another issue of how to react when you find out that your girl has travelled abroad ie outside the borders of the former USSR. Relevant questions are: Where? With whom? How? and With whose money? If your girl travelled by bus to visit Transylvania, Romania, and complained about not meeting Dracula, you have no worries. If your girl travelled with her family to Spain, with the intent to look for the lost Gardens of Andalus, and stayed at a three star hotel for a week, have no fear. But if your girl travelled to Italy and the UK recently (actual example see below) someone had to have sponsored her ie she was living with a man indulging in a kind of sex tourism. A few girls seek out to travel by this vehicle - they meet someone one time, they persuade a man to sponsor them, and they get to see a country they otherwise wouldn't see. Okay, you ask, how about an actual example? Try Natasha Sok Naty23 on -- yes, you guessed it -- our "favorite" www.absoluteagency.com A4569557 email: sokn@mail.ru who admitted to me that the Italian in question was 40 and the Brit just 22 -- a disparity which makes no sense unless age is irrelevant for the objectives of this 23-year-old Belarussian. I'd say she is well on her way to cover all of Western Central and Southern Europe before the age of 27!

In another incarnation of sex tourism, a girl who is not working or working as a salesgirl cannot afford to fly and stay at a resort even just for a week in countries like Turkey or Egypt: her family will not fund her trip if it is not a family outing. It means a foreign man paid her way and she is meeting him there: third-country tryst scenario.

On the other hand, month long trips to Dubai or Beirut -- this is just an exercise in the world's oldest profession! (Dubai and Beirut are just too expensive for the ordinary girl to afford a month's stay without some earning capacity.)

I advise you: scrutinize all foreign travel carefully. This can give you insights into the motivation behind the girl to seek out a foreign man!


*Generalizations, as the term implies, do not apply in every circumstance. Sakhalin, far from Moscow, has wealth derived from the petroleum industry and expatriates can be found their enjoying a high standard of living.

11-01-2004, 05:45 AM
The reason is in the mentalities!
Ukrainian- russian girls are used to be economical, cause if they are happening to earn a little bit more then life minimum payments
in these soviet countries, sure they`ll spend it on helping their parents, who can not afford good enough medicines, buying a new furniture since the 1991..... Of course if a man wants to meet thr lady from Ukraine or Russia he must pay for her trip! And must suggest it first! Yes, lot of scammers and everything.... then buy her a ticket and make a foreign Passport for her personally! If she is a scammer- she`ll not agree for a ticket...
and the most important- ALL THE GIRLS NEED THE MONEY! Both good and bad girls, in every country!!!! So, A MAN shopuld behave the way, she`d LOVE HIM! if you are really WORTH of a LADY< and even if she pays attention on your money first/// help her to get free from her complexes, left from some poor periods of her life!!!!If she`ll love you- then she`ll not need your money!!!! If you want a girl to love you for your soul- first HAVE this soul.... in the deep its meaning. Win her love!!!!

02-15-2005, 10:26 AM
I think Russia is Mafia owned.
That would explain everything.[xx(]

03-06-2005, 11:32 PM
To Katrine if you still are reading these posts.

I think that you are very correct in your comments. Your comments are statements that most of the persons who post here have not seen, or close their eyes to because they do not understand soul and love and hard times. Or are out only to have "a good time" or protect their money above all else. Would such people really make a good husband for a woman abused by her own culture?

I have sent and taken money and presents to Russia. I have been asked for help, but only when it was really needed. I have seen my presents passed on to other family members more in need, and then seen them passed on again to someone else because the other family member could not really use them. It is called a self-help system. Rather that, than be thrown in the trash like Americans do. Take a ride down your street on trash-pickup day and see what gets thrown out. Items that many Russians (and poor women in other countries) will never obtain without help, or would have to acquire from savings (if that is possible) after much sacrifice.

I still believe there are plenty of honest women in Russia and the other countries. Guys, quit complaining and open your eyes.

I am going back soon to find one of these honest women. And yes, they exist on the Internet too.

I think this will be my last post, because the comments here solve absolutely nothing and are only opinions. Most of them bad, unfortunately.

Good luck in your searching guys.

03-11-2005, 09:27 AM
Gentlemen. Ladies. Forum participants in general.

After that last posting, I feel I should say to you all "take heart". Accept Mr Believer-In-Fate's right to an opinion, but do not discard your own opinions.

Fools rush in where angels fear to tread!

If airfares and immigration processes are involved, then only the most foolish and the most spendthrift among us is simply "out for a good time". There are cheaper and more morbidly satisfying ways to be sexually immoral.

We exercise caution and exchange opinions and experiences. I see few complaints here; they are mainly accounts of negative experiences.

It does not mean that we lack "dushye", are cold-hearted, or are unable to love another person. It does not make us ignorant of people's hardships. It does not mean we would not help any person genuinely in need, let alone our women.

Does any genuine woman want to marry a fool?

Tex N Arabia
03-16-2005, 10:07 PM
I've lived and worked and visited many countries, Third World or otherwise. It's called 'scale and percentages' which Southamerican has touched on. Do you really think that a guy who makes US$5/day here in Saudi, has a family in The Philipines, India, Pakistan, or some other similar place isn't providing pretty well for his family? Well he is... Again, in another forum I addressed sitting in Kharkov and drinking 16oz. Stella Artois' at US.60cents a beer. Same beer would cost you US$4.50 sitting in the same type of restaurant in Dallas, LA, or NY. Cost you US$9.00 in Tokyo. There's also a thing called "infrastructure". If it's not modernized (as in the FSU) then you have hardships. Add to that the fact that the infrastructure that does exist wasn't maintained creates even greater hardships.

There's also the fact that I could put a girl up in a Villa in Yalta for 1/3 the cost of a smaller place in Laguna Beach, California. The USSR, as a whole, never was maintained, they couldn't afford it. That's why, as we know now, they really never had 1/10th of the nuclear warheads they claimed. Couldn't afford that either as they sunk everything into conventional equipment and massive ranks of battalions. If it was the USSR today, Ukraine, Belarus, etc., would still have the same existance it does today. Wage scales and income would be higher, but so would everything else. Giving a Ukrainian girl US$50 should be nothing to an American (who can afford to chase those gals... see my post in "Mentality" forgot the forum name), but at the same time should be 'gracious' to the gal, and not lead to more, more, more. As I said in "Mentality" how much are you willing to spend -vs- the risk you are willing to take.

USA Mike In Saudi

03-18-2005, 10:58 AM
[8D]Money is the chief motivation for a scam.
FSU women in Moscow or St.Petes or nearby surrounds are likely to do it as these cities are amongst the most expensive to live in but it is also true a girl from a small village may do it.
Major scam operations seem to be concentrated around places such as Yoshkar Ola ( perhaps all the girls are poor there ) and Lugansk, Ukraines hot bed of scammers.
Girls from the 3 big cities, Moscow, St,Petersburg and Kiev are the most spoilt, materialistic and conceited bitches like my Elena from Kiev ( I'll verbally bash her again ) because she was like a vacuum cleaner when it come to sucking up gifts..she is one who will pull the biggest scam on the personal visit (gt6354) and take you shopping for her until you drop and empty your wallet ( she lists shopping and walking around Kiev as one of her favourite past times so waht does that tell you )..pity the bloke she gets her hooks into on a personal visit..she's blonde, tall and beautiful and will suck you in but its unlikely she will open her legs for you or it will cost thousands to get between there.
These FSU girls are real pieces of work and you thought Western girls were bad!

03-19-2005, 07:18 PM
Show me this Elena, I will gladly shoot her for spoiling the impression and making anyone think that St. Petesrburg equates with Moscow on even such an issue as women! But even she was from Kiev, wasn't she? In any case, life in big cities is certainly more expensive, but the wages are also much higher, so I do not think that big city girls have more motivation to scam than the provincial ones. And even those girls who live in small towns but are educated received their education in big cities, that's the way it works. If they came back to their home town after they finished university, it normally means that they failed to find a job in a big city, but it does not mean they do not remember all the advantages the big city has to offer. Does not make much difference in terms of "being spoilt".

04-10-2005, 01:35 PM
Hello, I am from Sao Paulo, Brazil, and I've just found this very interesting topic here.

I am also from a latin-american country, and several times I've questioned about looking for a FSU woman; anyway we live here in a so-called "Third-World Country"... But the question rised by southamerican is interesting. We cannot forget that, in despite of some people here in our continent have a good life, with consumming goods like a car (or cars), computers, VCRs, DVDs, flat-screen TVs and so on, the average of people here lies above these standards. The same occurs on FSU (Former Soviet Union). For the good or the bad, the socialism brought to russian people fair life standards, with excelent education and some good health. The average of russian and latin-american people earns about US$ 100/month; the big difference is that the most of russians have a very high level of education, which is not translated in better earnings. Brazilian (or argentinian) engineers, physicians, lawyers, have mid (or upper) class life standards, which is not true for the russian people. Usually here in Brazil mid classes have an earning of about US$ 1,500/month, but they are only 1/3 of brazilian population.

Another interesting thing is related to "space exploration" and the technology of Soviet Union. I didn't understand the point here, and I hope southamerican is not suggesting some conspiracy... :D
Yes, Soviet Union launched Sputnik, Vostok, Salyut and Mir, and Russia is launching Soyuz today, for the International Space Station. All this technology is an heritage of USSR days, when the power of the country was counted by the number of nuclear weapons. All this power collapsed, and so the economy of the country itself. The legacy is a very high-educated people, which is very aware of all the dificulties of day-by-day, with problems of alchoolism (specially among men) and reduction of total population.

Today there are some russians which have an excelent life there, but the most of the people faces a hard and desperate situation of economical estagnation. And that's why some nice and high-educated girls look for marriage and a new opportunity overseas.

04-26-2005, 12:02 AM
God! Do u really think that there are NO rich people in Russia? and probably all people in states are rich!???? lol

come on , visit Moscow! :) some of u , my little church mouses, wont have enought money to eat in the restaurant :)
come on , men, get a life!

U re living in the past :) Russia is a modern country now.
Go and find a real girl to shage... LOL
U know I'd perefer to live in russia, having money rather then live in states like a church mouse : )

05-07-2005, 01:13 AM
Russia has changed big time, people. It is ridiculous for me to read discussions about whether to trust a girl if she has a computer or travels abroad. I am a 30 yo russian female and all of my female friends there (yes, all of them) make a good living, have apartments, multiple electronic gadgets and travel abroad 2 to 5 times a year. It is not what it used to be in the 90s in the post crisis period where eveyone wanted to get away. Now life is good here and full of hope and meaning. Women in their 40 have even better lives because they start and develop their businesses. As for the young students, they are learning foreign languages and travel all over to get experience and pump up their resume.

One thing did not change - family values, as it is programmed into a russian woman that she is not complete without a family. And the available women to men ratio is still not in favor of the women. This is why some of us (certainly, not as much as there used to be) still looking for a life partner abroad. However, never in my life I will pay attention to some paranoid individual watching out for scammers all the time, or expecting me to fall in love with him just because he is from Western Europe or the USA as opposed to my part of the world. Additionally, do not expect me to be a desperate housewive. I will not cater to you out of gratitude for taking me away from my friends and family. I am looking for an accomplished and SECURE man, a real deal, a seldom find in any part of the world. That being said I would certianly not ask for any financial help or gifts, but as kindness and generocity is the only way to win my heart, I do expect a man to show me if he cares and if he is pleased to make me happy.

About the female sex tourism. Please. Don't be such hypocrytes. Have you ever had fun without committment?? Do you only engage in sex if there is a solid long term relationship? I doubt it. Everyone experiments when they are young. Why it is ok for a western guy to go to several cities in Russia and Ukraine for a sex tour lying to a few unsuspected romantic girls about eternal love and devotion, but it is not ok for a girl to go on an all-paid trip with some guy, where both are adults and know the score???

Reading through all those posts it looks like the woman you are trying to meet should be:

a. gorgeous (possibly 20 yrs younger)
b. educated (but not well travelled, so that she won't know any better than her home country)
c. well off (but not possess extra electronic devices)
d. virgin (but not with you of course, with you she should open her legs as soon as she sees you)
e. nice, polite, sweet, caring
d. love you unconditionally
f. accept you the way you are with all your physical, financial and emotional deficiences
g. know the value of your money (never expect anything from you)
h. very patient (since you had a lot of bad life experiences that she will have to pay for)
i. family oriented, nuturing
j. again, gorgeous
k. non-demanding, non-confrontational
l. honest, reliable, dependable
m. princess (but down-to-earth)
n. willing to adjust herself completely to your mentality
o. willing to relocate and leave her friends and family
p. willing to accept that you are the best that happened to her

C'mon already.

05-08-2005, 08:06 AM
[8D]Listen Natalka, I agree somewhat with what you are saying.
I was looking for a women not to be my mouse and servant..just an honest girl for companionship.
I don't need a girl to cook and clean for me..I done it myself for years even when I was last married I shared the household duties and did most of it myself so I am far from lazy..I like to keep a clean, neat and ordered house and I do it myself and if I marry again nothing will change..I will still do it myself.
I am 41, father of 3 kids ( who do not live with me but I have visitation rights and access and they are with me in 21% shared care and custody ) and very experienced and honest.
I don't want a mouse and servant..just a good honest woman who will be my companion and love me but its hard to find a compatable companion..nobody is perfect, Natalka..we all have a little irritating things about us and what a relationship requires is compromise, patience and acceptance of "lifes little irritants"
You sound very interesting...I want a woman that can think and be intelligent and thoughtful and considerate too in much the way that I can be..not a dumb servant as my view is a woman has as just much rights as a man in a relationship.
Some men are bad and bash there woman into submission..some men like me are good and love and respect there woman and in turn recieve the love and respect back...relationships are a two way street..nobody can have it all there own way!
Somtimes marriages and relationships fail..my last marriage failed because I let my foreign wife loose and she got involved with bad Australian girls, went to discos and nightclubs and discovered other men and got laid..it was all about sex with other men and I was betrayed and that killed the marriage...my mistake to give her too much freedom as really it was not appropriate for a married woman to go to these places but I only wanted to let her experience life that she had not before experienced and it got out of control and it was too late to fix it..she learned the habits of a slut!
But at 4 years ago it is ancient history now and I am long divorced and look for another soul mate.
You have a lot of spunk and fire in you, Natalka..I like that quality..men can not always get it right and we make mistakes too!

05-08-2005, 08:17 AM
[8D]What star sign are you, Natalka?
You sound like a firery scorpio...sting in the tail like a scorpion..am I right?
I am an Aries by star sign..can be a stubborn ram and will argue back but at same time can be reasonable and thoughtful and as for money..I spend it faster than I get it..typical ram..spend it one day and worry about it tomorrow.
Natalka, you can rule my roost anytime!

05-14-2005, 10:57 AM
All I can tell you is: in order to understand you must go there and see it for yourself. Former USSR has invested everything in trying to become a superpower, while neglecting they own citizens and having them practically starve. Taking they freedom and right to free speech and expression. Now that is history and people went berserk. You know, if you ever had an animal, dog for example? If you keep him in chains all the time, once you let him free, you know what he does? Well, that's happening now in Russia, my friend. One thing you are mistaken, Russia was never and will never be rich, thanks to idiots who govern it.

06-25-2005, 09:28 PM
What comes first - the chicken or the egg? What I mean is, what comes first - the man's demonstration of generosity? - or the woman's meaningful interest in the man? I want to be generous with the woman who has a sincere interest in me, and vice-versa. But I am reluctant to be generous (i.e., in terms of gifts, or paying for trips) before there is a clear and real interest demonstrated by both parties. I'm not talking about paying for dinners, running around town, plays, drinks, movies. That's all the price of admission (although I think there should be a reasonable limit on this stuff too, until true interest is demonstrated). But some - or is it many? - women are looking for stronger signs of generosity in a man BEFORE they decide they are interested. Are they scammers? Or are they genuine women wanting to know that the man they are with is a giving, caring man before they will feel interest? I think the answer is...yes to either, depending on the woman. Some will be scammers, and some will be genuine women. But telling the difference in the first few critical meetings is pretty difficult.

I believe that the dating norms/culture in the FSU do set up an expectation of generosity from Day 1. In other words, the man has to be willing to place bets up front - and not be worried that he will lose it to a woman who is not really interested in him. And generally speaking - the more beautiful the woman, the more true this is. And DA, FSU women - to a degree, this is true everywhere. But to me, it feels like a more prevalent truth in Russia than it is here in the U.S. Perhaps it's because women here are (in general) more financially independent. But whatever the reason, it feels ingrained in the culture, the attitudes, and as I said, the dating norms.

06-26-2005, 03:35 AM
there is no real answer to the question that was asked. It all depends where the ladies live in the country. I am going to see a lady that lives in a small town and she asked me to rent an apartment. The house she lives in has no hot running water or inside toilet. No telephone nor television. She works to support a son going to university and the two parents that live in the small house with her. The ladies from the bigger cities have the commerce that produces money that circulates only through the rich. There is more money in the cities due to that is where more things are bought and sold. It all depends where they live demographically. In the smaller towns, the wages reflect the lack of commerce.

09-20-2005, 03:03 PM
To Natalka, I am wondering if you are actually from an FSU, while inaccurate that was some clear concise and well structured writing.

Southamerican is truly saying what is known by anyone with world travelling experience which few US citizens do and personally i will accept the trade off of foolish national compatriots to more of them on my favorite treks.

Now..........this quote below...

You know, if you ever had an animal, dog for example? If you keep him in chains all the time, once you let him free, you know what he does? Well, that's happening now in Russia, my friend. One thing you are mistaken, Russia was never and will never be rich, thanks to idiots who govern it.

is sadly too accurate....although it

contradicts miss natalka but unfortunately as a person doing business and travelling REGULARLY to Asia , the Russians and the FSU countries are in trouble. They have joined the poker game of capitalism too late and other than resource stripping appear to not be capable of producing FUNDAMENTAL items of value. Trust me China is not all about low wages. They are making things that work. And are cost effective. Japan is the social safety net role model of wealth that Karl Marx would have called a dream.

Karl , If you are going " sell the capitalists the rope by which they will hang themselves " ya GOTTA be able to make a rope they would BUY!

but.............I digress. I will go to the Ukraine in ten days and after a car accident killed my fiance from Mexico 13 months ago , will "take a look around" . To be frank despite a high income the "scammer discussion" on this site hurts my heart and desire to have what I lost. Why do i want a foreign woman?.........well I have over 470,000 frequent flyer miles NOW ( so I must truly like travel) and the idea of a having a person of intelligence whose family and culture I can get to know over the decades that remain....sounds like both fun and an intellectual challenge. They take me hiking and I introduce them to my home cooked Mexican food and tequila.........learning to make my jokes about Karl Marx in their native language along the way.

Hope to be able to talk to some of the experienced people on this site.... in the end am i just nuts to add five days in Ukraine on to a Euro biz trip and "just see what's out there?"


the journey is the reward