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Thread: Russians vs North Americans
12-13-2005, 10:13 AM #21Senior Member
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- Nov 2005
According to Marx, socialism is a stage on the way to communism, which is the more advanced stage of humyn organization not yet achieved in China or the Soviet Union, even according to Lenin, Stalin and Mao.
According to Marx, under socialism we have a dictatorship of the proletariat which is a government organized for the defense of survival "rights." Also, distribution goes by the principle "from each according to his/her ability, to each according to his/her work."
Under communism, according to Marx, the government disappears and there is economic cooperation as well. The principle of distribution becomes "from each according to his/her ability, to each according to his/her need."
Socialists and communists existed before Marx. Marx is the single most-respected authority and reference point, but the words "socialism" and "communism" still have various shades and applications, because of the diversity amongst those calling themselves "communist" and "socialist."
Many calling themselves socialist would like to stop with the nationalization of the means of production and not move on to communism. They also often oppose the "dictatorship of the proletariat" in the name of democracy. For example, they supported the imperialist World War I, because the majorities of their countries supported it, while we Marxist-Leninists found World War I anathema to the proletariat, against survival "rights."
Since World War I, there has been a very large split between many calling themselves "socialist" and those calling themselves "communist;" however, to make matters more complicated there are socialists found who would not support World War I today and there are "communists" who would favor doing whatever the majority wants. There are also "social-democrats" who want reforms to imitate the results of socialism while keeping capitalism.
When MIM uses the terms, we use them this way: 1) "Communism"--the classless society with no state of the distant future. "Communist"--someone who wants to get to communism or the adjective for "communism." Examples include many tribal societies of the past and in remote areas still living today.
2) "Socialism" refers to that period/stage between capitalism of today and the communist goal. During that stage there is "dictatorship of the proletariat." Examples are the USSR under Lenin and Stalin or China under Mao.
3) "Social-democrats"--whether they call themselves "socialist" or not, people opposing the "dictatorship of the proletariat" in practice and hence socialism itself. Examples would be Sweden today.
12-13-2005, 01:17 PM #22Senior Member
quote:Originally posted by Dutchy013
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- Sep 2005
I think you are simplifying matters.
Problems are more complicated as just white/black.
You mix up socialist and communist, which are two complete different idea's.
The world has become one big village, people are moving around the world to get jobs and a better life.
Europeans went in the 50's to Australia, Canada and the US.
Now we have movements from South to North, e.g. Africans to Europe and Central Americans/Mexicans to the US.
Jobs are moving from West to East, because labour in the US and West Europe has become to expensive.
Shareholders and CEO's have no longer any feeling with the society they live in, it is all about making a buck.
The same people move our jobs to the East, because 10% revenu is not enough and they also own the political elite becuase of all their donations.
In the mean time they make the "blue collar" believe they have still have influence by voting and a chance to relise the "American dream"
I should stop here.
This is not the forum to exchange political idea's and maybe I have become to cynical and lost believe in our polical and economical leaders, American and European alike.
All this rhetorics about "we all come from somewhere else" & " we are all emigrants" ( aka non-primordialism )was ok up until the beginning of this century.
I read reports about how Irish or Swedish immigrants used to live in CANADA at the beginning of this century, and one would freak out.
These days the first african or else moron just out of jail is welcomed with free healthcare, free monthly annuity, free this & free that.
Which wouldn't apply when grandpa Salvatore was sailing from Sicily to New York, or grandpa Bepo to Montevideo or Buenos Ayres in 1890.
Italian immigration made Uruguay and Argentina great...welfare just turned Argentina to the third world.
Does South Africa ring any bell?
According to the world bank, ZA negroes were the wealthiest pro capite in the world, including the USA...these days ZA is a "developing country" same as Uganda or Congo.
So the "global village" & " we're all emigrants" rhetorics doesn't hold much water because today a) welfare and b) declining economy turn that into collective suicide...because our taxes pay for it.
As well, that as little to do with George Clooney's Como villa or Madonna's Florence estates...
While China, Malaysia & Pakistan rip our a$$ in shreds with superior products at 1/10 the cost, we're flooded with full room&board parasites hoping to catch the next "economic boom"...yea right.
These are facts.
Politics are for people wearing jewels and frocks of different colors.
12-13-2005, 01:28 PM #23Senior Member
quote:According to Marx, socialism is a stage on the way to communism, which is the more advanced stage of humyn organization not yet achieved in China or the Soviet Union, even according to Lenin, Stalin and Mao.
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- Sep 2005
The only idea i got from Marx is exploitation over men pays never back in the long run (see USA & slavery ) because no matter how dumb, black or else, nobody's born stupid.
As for the rest, both christianity & marxism are like Nostradamus' prophecies: everybody reads into those ambiguous ramblings whatever they want to read.
Through these decades i've seen dozens of "instant books" shouting out loud how they had found the key to Nostradamus & they were predicting doom&gloom based upon (then) current events.
Of course not one of those charming deductions ever applied and it is a known fact both Germans & Englishmen used Nostradamus to witness their final victory.
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