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Thread: George BUSH

  1. #11

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    Opposing a president actions during a war is not being a traitor. Only a fool follows blindly into war. Just asks the Germans under Hitler, Russians under Stalin, and on and on. To stand up for what is right, even opposing the president during war is patriotic. The Viet Nam war was wrong, and if the people of this country did not stand up against it, how many more Americans would have died? If the blacks did not stand up against the tyranny of in equality, they still would be riding the back of the bus, not allowed at most Universites, etc. America was formed because it was fed up with the tryanny of government, and wanted a government of the people, by the people and for the people. Not a government of the govenment, by the government and for the government served to by the people. Those who follow blindly and blindly follow the president into war are the fools and traitors.

  2. #12
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    quote:Originally posted by wxman2003

    I am a registered Republican, and say that because I do not not want to be confused with a liberal when I bash George Bush. First, Bush acts like a tryannt and a fool. He is a disgrace to the Constitution, which so many American have died fighting to defend. It is sad that most Americans do not realize they are losing their freedoms as of yet, but of course they are the same ones that approved of the war in Iraq, but now dissaprove of. I do not approve the way the Democrats ran this country into the ground, but I also will not support a tyrannt and a fool who has a total disregard for the truth and the law.
    Isn't that interesting. A liberal that doesn't want to be confused with a liberal. That's a pretty common theme among Bush bashers. I'm well aware that the Republican Party also has it's far left kooks but they are very rare. Or maybe not as rare as I thought.

    A man's mind, streched by a new idea, will never re-gain it's original dimension.

  3. #13
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    quote:Originally posted by wxman2003

    Opposing a president actions during a war is not being a traitor. Only a fool follows blindly into war. Just asks the Germans under Hitler, Russians under Stalin, and on and on. To stand up for what is right, even opposing the president during war is patriotic. America was formed because it was fed up with the tryanny of government, and wanted a government of the people, by the people and for the people. Not a government of the govenment, by the government and for the government served to by the people. Those who follow blindly and blindly follow the president into war are the fools and traitors.
    I think that you are a little bit confused with your claims of "fools following the president blindly into war". Seems to me that the president did seek and win congressional approval for both the Afghanistan war and the Iraqi war.
    Did not the Senate Armed Services Committee hold hearings on whether or not to go to war in Iraq after their August '02 recess?
    The war powers clause of the Constitution states that war is a decision to be made exclusively by the representatives of the people----- The Congress.
    On September 18th, 2001, congressional approval for the war in Afghanistan was granted by a 98-0 vote in the Senate and a 420-1 vote in the House.
    On October 16, 2002, congressional approval for the war in Iraq was granted by a 77-23 vote in the Senate and a 296-133 vote in the House.
    So what "Fools following blindly into war" are you refering to? Our soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq no doubt.
    Well the facts speak for themselves. NOBODY followed anyone blindly into war so get your damn story straight before you go blasting off with innuendo's and slanderous and derogatory insinuations.

    A man's mind, streched by a new idea, will never re-gain it's original dimension.

  4. #14
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    quote:Originally posted by ham
    What's wrong with Stalin?
    He was America's big WWII ally, wasn't he?
    Oh no!
    Another ally suddenly found guilty of horrible crimes!
    Sounds like the USA have problems selecting friends.

    Russia was an ally of the US during WWII but I would not go so far as to say our "Big WWII ally". He was more of a "Big ally" of western Europe rather than the USA. Do you think that Germany would have prevailed if not for Russia?? With or without Russia, Germany was doomed. Roosevelt trusted them but most Americans did not.
    "What's wrong with Stalin" ? Hard to believe that you would even ask such a question. But sure, since you don't know, I'll give you a little education about Stalin.
    1: Ask any Ukrainian about Holodomor and then try to convince them that Stalin was a good guy. For those that don't know, Holodomor is the man-made famine created in Ukraine and some parts of Russia in 1932 and 1933. Some refer to it as the Ukrainian genocide.
    It was caused by the seizure of the 1932-33 Ukrainian grain crop by Stalin under his 'Collectivization' doctrine. While 14.5 million people starved to death, Stalin exported 1.7 million tons of grain in 1932 and 1.84 million tons in 1933.
    The governments of 26 countries recognize Holodomor as genocide committed by Stalin against the Ukrainian people.
    Maybe you should go to the Vatican and ask someone about it.
    The last Saturday in November in the official day of commeration throughout Ukraine.
    The events of 1932-33 in Ukraine were seen by Stalin as the final solution against possible Ukrainian self-determination.
    2: The Soviet system of forced labor camps. aka: The Gulag.
    3: Repression, persecution and murder of (in some estimates) up to
    30 million of his own peolple.
    4: The Great Purge of the 1930's when Stalin tortured and executed
    600,000 of the 1.2 million Communist Party members that brought
    him to power.
    5: The non-aggression pact with Hitler in August 1939.
    There is much documentation about "whats wrong with Stalin". Check it out.

    A man's mind, streched by a new idea, will never re-gain it's original dimension.

  5. #15

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    Sonar, get your head out of your political butt. The people did follow the leaders blindly into war by the propaganda machine known as The President and congress. Congress followed blindly by trusting a president who had false information, based on very iffy data that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. That is what the war was based on, nothing else. Surprise, surprise, no weapons of mass destruction found and in fact Colin Powell was very hesitant to present such bogus info to the UN. Now of course since no weapons were found, good old georgie decided to change the reason to attack Iraq and that being Iraq is now a better place without Hussein, and therefore the war was still justified. Bush spoke to the nation and conned them into thinking if we did not go into Iraq, that nuclear and biological weapons would be flying over here shortly. He used fear to rile up a nation and follow him blindly into iraq, just as Hitler riled up Germany by claiming Poland first attacked Germany, which was a lie, thus allowing him to march into Poland with the full support of the blindly following Germans. That is how a nation follows blindly, by using fear of one's demise to go into war. Iraq was not a threat, and clearly was being controlled quite well, even without the monitors there. The greater threat to this country is North Korea, and always has been. But Bush knows a war with N Korea would be more bloody and he did not want the image of another Viet Nam to tarnish the Bush name. So it's much easier to attack a weak country and look God like. open your eyes, you were fooled, but of course once a fool, always a fool. War is started by fools, who
    use innoncent young men and women to to die for their foolish cause. This is the first war the US has ever started, and now we officially in the hall of fools who started wars.

  6. #16
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    what if Germany had prevailed?
    we'd have "german military" on our grounds rather than american, and probably we'd be typing here in some bastardized german reminiscent of switzerduetsch.
    We'd hear probably shuplatter music instead of negro rappers.
    Schnitzel would be popular, not hamburger.
    We'd eat Pretzel, not hotdog buns.
    and we'd be oh-so-grateful Germans had died to our own defense.

    Yes, i know who Stalin is.
    Even Lenin in his testament ordered to execute him (that's why Stalin would invalidate Lenin's testament ).

    quote:4: The Great Purge of the 1930's when Stalin tortured and executed
    600,000 of the 1.2 million Communist Party members that brought
    him to power.
    Hitler did the same (to my dismay) with the "long knives" night.
    Too bad in his last days he accursed this decision made on the payroll of industrial lobbies (since gray shirts were almost all forner communists, EG Otto & Gregor Strasser, the SA etc ).

    quote:5: The non-aggression pact with Hitler in August 1939.
    actually Hitler mistakenly broke it. After all, the americans & british were quick to jump in.
    The war against Russia was a folly, moreso when at war with France & the UK.
    He didn't learn Napoleon's lesson...
    Japan didn't help germany out (that would be the only hope since Japan had already defeated Russia in 1905), and for a payday, Stalin attacked them in their last months...really a gentleman.


  7. #17
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    quote:This is the first war the US has ever started, and now we officially in the hall of fools who started wars.
    hmmm
    the war against spain in 1898 i think...Afghanistan...

    the USA stopped being a pacific country after the civil war & the demise of the southern-ridden establishment of Monroe, Hamilton & Jefferson convinctions.
    Another (small) reason why the civil war had started.

  8. #18
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    wxman, First of all, I don't have a political butt. I am not a politician in any way and am not affiliated to any political party.
    Seems that you are the one that felt a need to proclaim yourself as a registered Republican. Well good for you, I have no problem with it. But it seems to me that you belong to the wrong party. You don't want to be confused as a liberal yet you express an extreem leftist viewpoint. What a joke !!!
    Your extreem point of view no doubt fits into the category of sensationalized hysteria that consumes about 15% of the American population. The country stands divided at 60-40 at this point in time and you are definately in the far left corner of the 40% group.
    If you are foolish enough to believe that WMDs did not exist in Iraq then so be it. Just because they were not found does not mean that they do not exist. Somewhere, maybe buried in the desert, maybe buried beneath the streets of Bagdad, maybe stockpiled in Syria there is enough nerve agent to kill every man, woman and child that has ever lived. Sooner or later it will be found.
    The greater threat is North Korea? Well you are entitled to your opinion but again you are looking at the world through a pinhole.
    Kim Jong-iL (at this point in time) is no more of a threat to the US than a mosquito on a water buffalo's ass. Since he has no delivery system and his nukes are nothing more than a bluff, what's he gonna do? Do you think that China and Russia are stupid enough to not keep North Korea under their thumb? His only option is to develop low grade weapons plutonium to sell on the black market. Maybe possible but very unlikely.
    If we did have a reason to go to war with North Korea, do you really think that it would be a ground war? Another Viet Nam as you said? Maybe you should do some homework on the subject. We have air superiority already in place in South Korea that North Korea can not deal with. Their only hope would be Russia and China. If it ever comes down to that, then God help us all.
    The USA did not start a war with Iraq. It is nothing more than a continuation of the Gulf War that was started when Saddam Hussain invaded Kuwait. Hussain was given every option possible but violated every UN mandate that existed and made a mockery of every term of our original withdrawl. And the UN oil for food progam became nothing more than robbery of Iraqi resourses by crooks in western Europe. Not to mention the 100's of 1000's of Iraqi's being slaughtered Stalin style. The list goes on and on.
    You have a right to your opinion just as anyone else and this forum is the last place that I would expect anyone to express support for ANYTHING American. In fact I believe that the person who started this thread did so only in order to pull some strings. I have no problem at all debating this issue with some of the people here and I can accept their point of view whether I agree with it or not.
    It's one thing to disagree and express a different opinion. That is what a civilized democracy is all about. But to publically slander the president and our troops abroad during such a critical time is a completely different thing. There are more than 2000 American familys who have sacraficed a son or daughter in this effort. Do you think for one second that they would agree with you?
    60% of the American people do not agree with you. And of the 40% that do share some of your views only 15% would go so far left.
    80% of the Iraqi people disagree with you.
    Someone asked me yesterday "What was wrong with Stalin"? I'm having a difficult time finding anything right about Stalin. But I think that your kind of rhetoric would have been eliminated very efficiently. Your analogy of Hitler invading Poland with this situation is very far fetched.

    A man's mind, streched by a new idea, will never re-gain it's original dimension.

  9. #19

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    Sonar, you need to check your polls. Over 50% of the people think the war is wrong. Matter of fact 60% think the war is wrong, with Bush's approval rating down to 35%. Because I attack him, I must be a liberal in your eyes, when in fact I am very conservative. Anti abortion, anti big government, and anti tax and spend, which of course GW is the biggest spender, and biggest producer of big government of all times. Perhaps Mr Bush is more of a liberal than I am. I find it quite amusing that you come up with all the claims of things hidden in the desert, or under the street of Bagdad, etc. You make a good fiction writer. Quite hilarious in fact. Amazing we can find stores of money, but yet unable to find a nuclear warhead,
    that would be buried. Technology can easily detect nuclear substances, no matter where it is hidden and can be found much easier than money. You get upset when someone speaks up against a leader, that is fine and your opinion, but when you label someone un American, when they speak up against the government sounds more like a communist, or worse, you sound like Joe McCarthy.

    I highly doubt North Korea is a lesser threat than Iraq. I guess you didn't read the latest and that North Korea has sold Iran it latest ballistic missile technology than has a range of 3000 km, which now has Germany and the rest of Europe quite worried. Japan is very much worried as North Korea already has a minimum of 5 to 10 nuclear warheads, and the technology to deliver.

    North Korea does not give a rat about China, as it views China with total disdain as it has abandoned the socialist dream for capitalism, same holds for Russia.

    So please get your facts straight about North Korea. North Korea does not care about our air force, and it's superiority. They do not think like that. There soldiers are as fanatical as the Japanese where in WWII and will fight like that. They don't care if they lose a war, but they will make sure they take as many lives as they can if attacked. Believe me, all 35,000 US troops near the DMZ will be evaporated with the first missile Mentally IL launches.

    The greatest threat to US? Iraq, get real. The greatest threats are North Korea and Iran who are working hand in hand to create nuclear instability across Asia and the Middle East.

  10. #20

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    quote:Originally posted by ham

    quote:This is the first war the US has ever started, and now we officially in the hall of fools who started wars.
    hmmm
    the war against spain in 1898 i think...Afghanistan...

    the USA stopped being a pacific country after the civil war & the demise of the southern-ridden establishment of Monroe, Hamilton & Jefferson convinctions.
    Another (small) reason why the civil war had started.
    It was the first war we started that was officially declared war by the president. We never declared war on Afghanistan or Spain.

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