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  1. #811

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    Well guys if you only want sex then I don't think paid online dating makes any sense!
    You can easilly find girls on Hi5 for free, true ninfos.

    I can say I am completely tired of sex-only relations and totally lost interest before I even got any interest!

    Well I know I am some kind of exception to the regular macho guy and somehow girls go even more crazy when they do find a guy who says "No thanks". anyway I dont want to waste my time with useless relations, if I want sex only then its very easy to find girls looking for the same, in any country! Western girls eastern oriental, whatever.

    UALady's is really not for that. Now about Estonia, they are not like West, really nothing like West! I would give it a mix between Ukraine and Holland. Girls have a good old-fashioned education like in Ukraine but have gone into a open-relation kind of mentality.

    And believe me western girls do not go crazy about foreigners. In Tallinn if they see you are foreigner they will show interest in knowing you. Unless you drink too much, dress awful or are rude of course!

    When I was there I "saved" a very beautiful lady from a drunk guy trying to chat her up. Got a girl wanting to pay me a drink on the bar as well (in the Hotel where I was staying), 2 girls dancing and flirting with me .. at the same time.. one girl who wanted to get on until I remember to ask where she lived and she replied "I live with my boyfriend" lol..
    I was in Estonia for 4 days and only went out 1 night. So...

    Previous time in Estonia had similar results, in 30 minutes met 2 girls. Anyway I say it is really easy there because my brother lives in Tallinn for many years and got married there. He tells me all about his adventures and when I was there I could see by myself how crazy girls are! But thats more for you guys who want sex, girls in Tallinn want HOT MAN (latino guys) so give them hot and they'll go nuts.

    As for me I just want to settle and be happy with 1 nice girl. :P

    The idea behind UA is to find our "other half", did you join for that or just to have a girl for sex?

    I do keep my mind open, considering that minimum wages in Ukraine are around 80 euros, when I pay 150 USD for 2 months unlimited mails I am paying over 1 month minimum wages so it could be significant enough to serve as comission to girls who get "sales" from the man with whom they speak. For example if I'm a good talker I can maybe have 50 guys talking to me, I sent a lot of pictures for all of them, each has to pay for the photos, pay to reply me and pay for whatever else service he requires. I would then not be happy if I had to video conference a guy or have him on the phone and would sound uninteresting.

    Now another point of view, the 150 USD go to pay the staff, office, maintenance fees, etc and the company behind it makes a lot of profit (thats the idea or not?). The girls might sound strange on the phone / videoconference because they do not speak english very well or have trouble understanding / expressing.

    Imagine if you had to write your letters through an interpreter! It is much easier to miss questions or not? I doubt they are that organized that they show the translated letter to the girl, they probably read the letter to the girl when she's there and she tries to reply from memory which accounts for not answering all your questions, she starts talking about her day, etc etc.. this is just a possible scenario.
    It would be wise if UALady's could share the lady-side of the process in the website so we can have a better idea.

    I will talk to them to see if I can help solve the missinterpretation issues. I have a chinese client and even though she speaks english very well, we have a lot of communication problems. I have noticed this happens when handling people from another culture, what people intented to say is not always what we think they are saying.

    Now guys did you ever try to meet a girl on chat like IRC or Hi5 and after 1 year chatting and she saying how much she likes you and wants to meet you, you finally try to arrange to meet and she suddenly vanishes or has some strange turn-around / excuses? I had that a lot and I wasnt paying. Why would UA be different?

    I think there should be some extra points on FAQ about this to help people understand better what is going on. I'll have a chat with UA to try to get things more clear. Believe me if there is something fishy, I will know very easilly.

    As for scams, EBay has scammers, does that make EBay a scam?
    Any online business with a lot of users have scammers lurking, even online games have them.

    BTW it doesn't look nice to "flame" the girls and call them all bitches.

    Now behave and stick to the facts!

  2. #812
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    347

    Default

    quote:I'll have a chat with UA to try to get things more clear. Believe me if there is something fishy, I will know very easilly.
    "There's a sucker born every minute" -- attributed to P.T. Barnum, American showman (1810 ? 1891).

  3. #813
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    692

    Default

    quote:Now guys did you ever try to meet a girl on chat like IRC or Hi5 and after 1 year chatting and she saying how much she likes you and wants to meet you, you finally try to arrange to meet and she suddenly vanishes or has some strange turn-around / excuses? I had that a lot and I wasnt paying. Why would UA be different?
    well, in fact the only difference is the COST, with MOB pursuits being exponentially more expensive than just chatting away on ICQ & the like, or buying a conventional membership on some junk dating site like m@tch-com.
    I had kind of extensive experience with MANY western dating sites & tools like IRC, ICQ etc, but in the end was so disappointed that I started looking into the MOB idea, but I'd lie if I said I found a substantial improvement.
    "Why would the MOB route be any different than fooling around on ICQ or on some domestic junk dating site? ".
    EXACTLY.
    That is what more men come to realize every day, and that is what brought the decline of the MOB fad.
    Some might want to challenge this, but let's not forget years back agency seers read in the stars that we lonely men would shortly secure a FSU teenage bimbo with 1950s moral standards...which clearly never happened...oh yes, I am "the real loser" and that's why it never happened to me; Barney lost $150.000 but he's spineless; Leroy got taken to the cleaners, but he's a control freak...
    Compound this with added burdens of travel & expenses deterring men from further commitment.

    quote:Now behave and stick to the facts!
    You probably think you solved the riddle of WWW/LD dating. I hate to inform you most of us thought that way at some point in time, but no longer do. I suppose every man taken to the cleaners thought he was going to "make it".
    Maybe you are more intelligent, handsome or "street wise" than most...maybe not.

  4. #814
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    692

    Default

    quote:"There's a sucker born every minute"
    here we say THE MOTHER OF THE IDIOTS IS ALWAYS PREGNANT.

    [)]

  5. #815
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    623

    Default

    quote:"There's a sucker born every minute"
    The question here is just how hard is a person willing to suck??? Or should I say, how much is that person willing to pay???

    It seems to me that in the US, what a guy may think of as a "regular" dating site (Match.com) is full of spammers, divorcees with three kids, and even FSU scammers who will list their profile address as being within the US. Ghanans and Nigerians pop up alot too! I know this for a fact because this is how I met my first FSU scammer. Honestly, it was because of some of the stuff I read about the FSU while writing to her (him?), that I started my search for a possible FSU bride in earnest.

    Don't even think about the "sex" sites. (Yeah, I took a look... I am man after all!) They're full of "web cam" girls, hookers and... YUP, FSU scammers looking for horny guys thinking with the wrong head!

    I've never thought about girls from Estonia and have not researched anything about that country so I can't say anything about the subject. Sounds interesting though. Maybe if I had an extra few grand laying around I'd hop on a plane tomorrow if I was that kind of person. I've heard similar things about Austria and the Czech Republic, but, like brundos, I do have serious hopes of finding that one in a million girl from Ukraine or possibly Russia or another FSU country.

    Much of my search as been in Ukraine. Why? I'm not sure. Possibly the fact that the country itself is relatively small as compared to the US, has an apparently large number of girls looking to find husbands abroad (plenty of scammers too) and is easier to cover than a country the size of Russia.

    As far as UALadys and other sites like it, the problem I have is the exclusivity they have over the girls a guy might want to correspond with. At this point, it almost doesn't matter how "real" a girl might be, or whether or not she may actually speak, write and understand English, or whatever language is native to the guy who is writing.

    Even if the girl doesn't speak your particular language, there are numerous online translation services that offer much lower prices than UALadys and these other similar sites. Even a girl who could possibly write to you on her own, can't because UA won't give her your e-address, just as they won't give you her's.

    I haven't made it ther yet, because the scam usually comes as I inform the girl that I will pay for everything for our meeting and will make all the arrangements so she doesn't need to worry about anything. (In her city of course.)

    This brings me to a few questions that maybe you guys who have traveled a bit might know the answers to. I've read conflicting artcles about some things...

    Most people in Ukraine don't know English... Most younger people in Ukraine (20+ yo to maybe late 30's) know English because it was popular to learn in school...

    Ukrainians in general, believe it is okay to scam foreigners...

    Life in Ukraine sucks "mad cow dung"... It's the same as everywhere else. Some places are great, some suck.

    No one has a phone... Almost everyone has a phone, and even a cell phone (especially the women with the cell phones)...

    Well, I think I've shared my personal ignorrance enough for now!!![B)]



    Train returns

  6. #816
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    381

    Default

    While not claiming any special expertise in present-day web-dating (because of lack of technical sophistication), I have on the other hand been looking east
    since 1989 (mostly Poland, but also other FSU areas). So I do have some experience.

    I must point out, that my motives have been rather oldfashioned: Marriage, lasting relationship, decent behaviour. I'm not a sex tourist.

    Concerning the scamming datingsites. This is not a new phenomenon. Already when the first wave of polish women seeking western contact started, smart marriage agencies started to use the methods we meet on the net today. At that time on paper and with photocopied pictures, but the cheating was the same.

    After loosing a minor amount of money this way I tried a new approach, which maybe can be of interest even today. I got someone to translate a contact ad to polish for me and put that in one of the bigger newspapers in Poland. I got 55 postal answers; with photos and nice, long personal letters.

    I'm convinced, that most of these women were, what Ham calls "the other" women. At least I NEVER recieved any requests for money in the app. 150 letters I recieved
    while corresponding. And nobody started "loving" me wildly or madly after a few letters.

    Well, maybe some of you will say. "That was another time!". But I'm not so sure. As I mentioned in a former reply here, the variety inside the eastern countries is big.
    You'll find western consumer-style existing next to a very simplistic living. Both culturally, economically and practically. So it's not surprising, that it's difficult to make generalisations (telephones/not telephones etc). So you can still find a lot of older ways and values.

    A few observations about the Baltic people. I'm convinced, that there still exist a big group of "the other" women. But they can be difficult to get contact with. It's absolutely not "done" for a woman to go alone to a bar or even restaurant. You meet women through private contacts, friends, family, your job. But as very few polish people older than 30 speak english or german, it is difficult to get a deeper personal contact with them (knowledge of english is much better in the other three small Baltic contries).

    While the Baltic people are open, friendly and extremely social and hospitable, and it is not difficult to get eyecontact, you generally can't approach a woman in the street or shop for closer contact. It's considered rude, and normally only "ladies of negotiable affection" will respond. Men you meet in bars are often charming, good company and you'll be the best of friends. But don't trust any agreements you make with them f.ex. about visiting their homes etc. Next day everything is forgotten. So you don't get close to the average people this way either.

    If you succeed in creating contact, always make sure that the person you are talking with is russian (not indigenous), before starting to speak russian. Russians are generally hated in Easteurope. Try any western language.

  7. #817
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    692

    Default

    quote:After loosing a minor amount of money this way I tried a new approach, which maybe can be of interest even today. I got someone to translate a contact ad to polish for me and put that in one of the bigger newspapers in Poland. I got 55 postal answers; with photos and nice, long personal letters.

    I'm convinced, that most of these women were, what Ham calls "the other" women. At least I NEVER recieved any requests for money in the app. 150 letters I recieved
    while corresponding. And nobody started "loving" me wildly or madly after a few letters.
    You were lucky.
    I tried the same years ago. I verified ads were published & in fact my ad remained scattered even around the FSU web for years, BUT i got only a handful replies and went nowhere.
    Before someone says i made something wrong, my ad was very traditional and I had hired a professional translator to write it in russian.

  8. #818

    Default

    OK so we agree on something that not ALL the girls in UALady's are scammers or crap. And yeah if a girl starts loving me madly right away then I don't trust it but if she is very down to earth and keeps being objective about things, thats a different story. So it is up to us to distinguish between these types.

    Also keep in mind that since we do not know what is going on there exactly, we can only speculate. This means some questions we make might be ignored/censored by the translators and the issue actually has nothing to do with the girl because she is unaware of it.

    I agree that she agency should have an option for the girl to give her contact to us, with some downpayment of course since the agency business is having us contact through them. But thats normal for most agencies, they're not giving it for free obviously.

    The reason why they don't give the address was loudly shown in this forum when a member had someone go to the girl house talk to her. Its fine when you want to see if a girl is real but you don't need to go knock on her door to find out, there is a video-conference, webcams and phone. You can see the girl on the camera while talking on the phone so it is quite easy to see she's real without invading her private space.
    Anyway I guess the person who did this was really pissed and so sure it was all a scam that some boundaries were overlooked in order to make sure.

    Again I say some girls might be scams some agency policies might be less decent but generally I think UA should have some feature to give positive/negative feedback for quality purposes.

    The agency cannot control if a girl is showing to be someone else to you, different than she really is. Or even lying about things.
    The agency probably cares more about the money than quality of service like many companies do. So thats the downside but I rather use UA than other cheaper services who are even worse and more likely to scam or put phoney profiles.

    When all the options available are bad you go for the less bad and cant complain about that one because it is actually the best you can have! A bit like politicians in Portugal! hehe

    I dont care about UA or their policies I just care if the girl is what I'm looking for and really means it and both me and the girl are aware that we will only know for sure once we are together in person, not over internet. Then you'll be down to earth on both sides, realistic. Set a date that the girl agrees on, in advance. I set the date for April 2008 as I think its the best time for me and for her and of course the weather is better!
    If I will go or not that depends on how things go, maybe she'll be afraid in the last minute and make up some excuse not to meet me, thats a risk I will take afterall I am someone she has never really met, I could be a huge disappointment or even a serial killer!

    I think the best way to show the girl we're for real is to arrange what we will do once there like meeting their family and friends and so on. That shows not only that you are commited and serious but put her in a "safe" position as well.
    For example going out bowling on the first night with her best friend to tag along. She'll feel safe with her best friend around and at the same time can see if we're real or not. Going with this mindset instead of going on defense thinking the worse is a much better bet.

    If you expect the worse then you'll probably have it. No blind-folded as well, just be positive and pay attention to the girls feelings.

    As for meeting girls on the street, bars, etc. It is a very wrong concept that you can't meet people on the street or anywhere.
    A friend of mine who's a psychologist once told me people are not "bugs" and will respond positively if you approach them correctly. So yes you can meet people anywhere, even those beautiful girls who are so tired of all the stupid guys coming on to them. You just need to know HOW to approach. Thats it.
    I am not handsome or tall and I do it. I can come up to a table with 5 girls and start a conversation, turn on the spirit, as long as my mind is not set on getting phone numbers or getting anyone to bed. They'll know if I'm not being genuine. Do it for the right reasons and it will work much better.
    Then if I do get phone numbers that will be an extra! If I don't its ok, it was nice to meet new people and there's always next time.
    I don't know if you saw the movie "Dr. Love" with Will Smith. Learn something from that movie. Leave on the right moment, don't "stalk" until the girls start feeling you should leave. Leave when they want you to stay. That will show them you are not "attacking" so they'll be clueless about your intentions.

    This is not all theory, I do it since 2004 and it is really cool. But yeah you need to pay attention, a lot of attention to any minimal sign. Once you get used to it becomes easy. Girls who are used to having guys stalk them need a more careful approach. What I did once was to talk to other people in her group and give her less attention, that made her feel I was not into her and yeah I got the phone number later on! In a napkin from the bar, by her initiative. My mobile ran out of battery when I was gonna type it in. heheh
    Turns out she had a boyfriend but was with him for a long time and I think she was getting tired. I went out with her a few times and had dinner as well, just as friends. Hell yeah she was hot and beautiful but not even close to being my type of girl.

    I guess I'm too demanding which is why I picked UA when I can meet dozens of girls anywhere. Even if I meet hundreds its unlikely I'll find the one I'm looking for... its those values from some Ukrainian woman that I miss around here.

    Another really good way to start conversation in a bar that doesn't have very loud music is to set a topic. Tell them I was discussing this subject with my best friend and SHE thinks ....., we are now researching about the subject so I'd like to hear your oppinion about it. People like to give their oppinion and the situation just given is very positive since you said "SHE" not "HE".

    Focus = subject & girl best friend (possible future girlfriend)
    Girl(s) feel safe & unlikely will think you're hitting on her/them so she/they cooperate(s)

    You don't have a subject? Find one. Talk to one of your girl friends and find out something interesting to research about.

    I guess people lack imagination to do this and other things so they get the wrong impression that other people are unaproachable and the only approachable women are paid ones.

    I once did a demo for a friend of mine who didn't believe me when I said it is easy to meet girls. Met about 7 or 8 girls that night, got one phone number and he'll never doubt me again. :P

    A good book for you to read "How to Read Body Language". I bought it somewhere and it improved my skills on the subject even though some things I already figured out naturally, others were useful to know.
    It is useful both for business and social relations so I recommend it completely!

    OK enough talk I must get back to work now!

  9. #819
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    381

    Default

    OK, Ham. So much for my idea. Maybe things have changed a lot since then (18 years), but my impression of "normal" people in Poland is, that it hasn't changed that much.
    You still find functional polish/polish relationships with the man 15-25 years older than the woman; women DO seem to be the family-oriented types, the scammers pretend to be (though there's a lot of quarreling going on in polish families). This was only examples of traditionalism. Not necessarily all my criterias.

    One explanation could be, that the russians (you wrote in russian) in my experience are the absolutely worst of the crowd. Like many net-daters I've had contact with a lot of women of different nationalities, and as in normal life, there's been ups and downs. But one thing is for sure, almost all my russian contacts have been unreliable, sullen and arrogant. I wouldn't touch a russian woman, even if I was paid.

    "The others" are to be found outside the russian group (this is ofcourse a very coarse generalisation), and for their hate of anything russian, they probably wouldn't react to
    a contact ad, if it was written in russian.

  10. #820
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    381

    Default

    Brunods, am I correct in guessing, that your real-life experience in
    the east has been restricted to Estonia?

    Do not take this as criticism, but many of the web-girls are VERY different in real life, compared to the sweet-talking they produce in
    mails.

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