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  1. #831
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    Dec 2007
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    381

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    Brunods,

    you certainly deserve to meet an ukrainian (russian) woman.

  2. #832
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    692

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    quote: I have read that Ukrainian girls take their education VERY seriously. In fact, I read that it is a waste of time to write to a girl with 2 or 3 years left to graduate, as she will probably not seriously consider leaving school for "some guy she met on the internet" unless you want to wait for her? This girl is to graduate this year and that was the only reason I continued writing to her.
    You have to better be sure your FSU love queen [u]IS past her school days & [u]definitelydone with her education, unless you feel like acquiring a step-daughter who'll spend most of her time at school (meeting "cute boys" her age, perhaps ) while you foot the bills worth tens of thousands.
    Some men might think that meanwhile she'll be there and having sex with them, but expect despondency and "headaches" to increase; besides, she's just trading off...at home she would have very regular (more regular than she'll ever have with any western Barney ) careless sex with drunk Oleg and unwashed Igor, so no big deal, as Claudia Cardinale said in the masterpiece " once upon a time in the west", she would take a hot bath and come out clean.
    And I say drunk Oleg & unwashed Igor because if she had a chance to trap a decent wealthy "new russian", she'd forget about lovesick westerner dinosaurs at once.

  3. #833

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    For my opinion, Russian and Ukrainian young ladies like to get in contact with guys from Western countries because this is an option for them to leave their country, see the world and have a save life for herselves and the families they want to build up in future. So it might well be that such young ladies develope a bit the attitude of arrogant princesses whenever a Russian or Ukrainian boy wants to catch them, they simply orient themselves to have a foreigner as partner for life and better future. I would not mean that this is bad. I think that it is reasonable and normal that a normal lady who takes the risk to have to care of a baby in case of accepting sex with a man ... such lady looks for social safety in future and a good perspective.

    On the other hand, these ladies know too good that some Western guys only think to have a cheap sex affair with them. So it is also normal and reasonable that they try to find out if such guy is really interested in finding the second half for a long term relationship and not only his adventure for a week in Ukraine or Russia.

    The main problem is the language. Having sex with a girl without knowing her language is possible, but this is not what these ladies look for. Or the western guy speaks at least a little Russian, or the lady speaks at least a little English. Romantic atmosphere with translator is not possible for my opinion.

    And the age question: What people from 18 years old voluntarily do with each other is up to them!

    There are many girls who have good experience with boys in sex so that they find easily the captain of their heart just in the neighbourhood. There are also many girls who are frustrated after first not so good sex affairs with boys so that they might prefer an older "experienced" "more serious" guy because they expect to find their own perspective in such guy.

    And finally, any relationship can fail!!! This is totally independent of age issues... .

    Goddiejens

  4. #834
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    692

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    quote: And the age question: What people from 18 years old voluntarily do with each other is up to them!
    well, so much for scammers then: the money is the man's, and he decides what to do with his money; does he feel inclined to send it to a complete stranger to "save her honor" (while in reality it is hairy Oleg behind stolen pics )? Fine; i won't cry myself asleep over this.
    Men deserve a fair forewarning...whether they heed it or not, it's another matter.
    People mostly believe what they WANT to believe, for some reason; whether that is objective truth or a delusion is a completely different story.


  5. #835
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    Sep 2007
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    623

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    quote:For my opinion, Russian and Ukrainian young ladies like to get in contact with guys from Western countries because this is an option for them to leave their country, see the world and have a save life for herselves and the families they want to build up in future.
    I question whether this is AS true as we are all led to believe? Certainly right after the break up of the USSR, life sucked hard and people now had the opportunity to leave. (Both men and women) But that was awhile ago. I've heard the FSU is like many growing regions. Some areas and people are doing well, some aren't.

    Just how bad is it really? And just how many of these slavic beauties are seriously looking to make such a big change in their lives as to move 8,000+ km from their homes and families?
    quote:There are many girls who have good experience with boys in sex so that they find easily the captain of their heart just in the neighbourhood. There are also many girls who are frustrated after first not so good sex affairs with boys so that they might prefer an older "experienced" "more serious" guy because they expect to find their own perspective in such guy.
    In the letters I've received, sex is usually only a topic exploited by scammers hoping to get a guy thinking with his small head, accompanied by some of the pics I've posted on my personal site. Some girls talk about the age difference as being more along the lines of social and/ or life experience and ecoconomic stabilty. (not necessarily wealth) Also they talk about "slightly" older men knowing what they want and being passed the desires to play the field so much. Granted, some scammers have also gone this route regarding the subject. They're often travel scammers who will "invest" the time of month long correspondence trying to get the $1,500 for visa/passport/airfare, as opposed to translation scammers who go for the steady $100 or a month... (like UALadys?). As most girls I have written to are younger than me, I always ask this question of age to see what their answer is. If she talks about sex... BIG RED FLAG!!!

    But for me, I am honestly looking to find a wife, not a daughter!
    quote:You have to better be sure your FSU love queen IS past her school days & definitelydone with her education, unless you feel like acquiring a step-daughter who'll spend most of her time at school (meeting "cute boys" her age, perhaps ) while you foot the bills worth tens of thousands.
    As I said, I had heard that these girls are incredibly serious about school. The fact that the girl I plan to visit graduates this year is the only reason I have continued to correspond with her with serious intentions and hopes. Had she told me she would graduate in two or three years, I might have balked.

    Train returns

  6. #836
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    381

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    May all the saints save us from low-grade moral philosophy. Mutual consent, yes ofcourse. But one fundamental condition exists in this situation. That all involved parts have given correct and honest information first. Otherwise it's called fraud.

    That anybody can be so naive as to accept the cencorship and fees practised by some agencies is beyond my understanding. But that's their business.

    It's what happens later, I consider criminal. It seems to me, that the present discussion is about, whether all of these women exist at all. That's only the first hurdle, and the responsibility must be the agency's.

    The next problem is these women's need of visas, medical care, english courses, new shoes or laptopcomputers (I was once exposed to that one).

    When you have passed that, the woman of your deepest desires suddenly is unavailable for a personal meeting. ......OK, finally you meet someone, it seems to function, you are presented to friends and family, and according to our dating- and personal psychology specialist Brunods, everything is honky dory. You can feel safe now.

    But where do you think, the money you possibly give to your beloved goes? Partly to her family ofcourse, and they certainly don't want to cut the branch, the are sitting on.
    And her friends? They are as often as not involved in some scamming activities themselves. My own firsthand experience (I was in Ukraine): My "fiancee" in Ukraine had two friends as backup. One had simultaneous four EXCLUSIVE arrangements with western gentlemen, the other worked in an agency, where one client/scammer asked (with translationhelp) for the modest amount of $1000 a month from an american guy, she never had met. Telling him, that this was an absolute minimum for survival in Ukraine. The fool paid, by the help of the agency.

    Then you maybe get engaged and later married. You think this is a guarantee? You know the divorce rate, both inside and outside FSU with a russian as one part?
    Well, maybe you stay married, because your FSU darling consider it practical to have a base, from where she can continue her scamming business. Possibly on the family computer (this is one of several authentic cases).

    By now you are hopping mad, and you get involved in anti-scamming activity. What happens? You are called a lot of rather unpleasant things like sextourist, looser, rejected
    (SHE left you, because you are worthless etc), "people" send insane posts to various forums using your name, etc etc. (own experience).

    You think we're finished now? You start your own antiscam branch, qualitystuff, with really experienced and technically grounded people, own protected website etc.
    The day after your site is opened it crashes from hacking, and later the owner is threatened personally (I have also firsthand information about this situation).

    For all you desk-types with a wonderful talent for making hypotheses.... I have dated in FSU for 18 years, lived there for close to two years, my wife is from there. Ofcourse this doesn't count as much as all your more or less qualified guesses, but one does as well as one can.

    Good hunting, boys.

  7. #837
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    692

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    quote: As I said, I had heard that these girls are incredibly serious about school. The fact that the girl I plan to visit graduates this year is the only reason I have continued to correspond with her with serious intentions and hopes. Had she told me she would graduate in two or three years, I might have balked.
    i suggest you discuss the issue thoroughly.
    Most FSU qualifications are worthless in the west (hell, many western qualifications are worthless in other western countries ); many require additional schooling and training.
    A man elsewhere claimed he had met a 30yo FSUW who claimed to be a registered nurse.
    Now you'd think a 30yo woman with a job to be done with her studies, but she soon raised the issue of further studies with her cyber-romeo.
    There is nothing implicitly good or implicitly bad about sponsoring one's online love queen through studies, but most men underestimate the costs (say $20 to 30.000 for the cheapest US arts/humanities accredited ONLINE degree. For traditional brick&mortar schools expect overall expenses to skyrocket ) and fail to realize that funding her degree by no means increases one's chances of "keeping her forever"; I think rather the opposite and I'm not interested in acquiring a step-daughter, but that is my problem.
    Also be wary that many women might play foul about it telling you they do not feel the need to go to school, but once they land abroad they are bitten by the school bug and start nagging you for it.
    If that is not your thing, make absolutely sure she understands your uncompromising stance.
    Most say I am a "monster" for thinking like that, but if i felt like contributing to a charity, I would visit a real orphanage and donate to truly needy people.

  8. #838
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    Sep 2007
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    623

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    quote:It seems to me, that the present discussion is about, whether all of these women exist at all.
    The question isn't about the existence of FSU women who are legitimately looking for western husbands. The question is, finding them through the mine field of scam artists that plague the whole FSU dating network?
    quote:For all you desk-types with a wonderful talent for making hypotheses.... I have dated in FSU for 18 years, lived there for close to two years, my wife is from there. Ofcourse this doesn't count as much as all your more or less qualified guesses, but one does as well as one can.
    So swede, you also mentioned a "fiance". Being in quotes, I imagine it's not the same girl you're married to now? What happened to her? So having "dated" in the FSU for 18 years, how many of these girls did you actually meet and go out with? How many did you date online, never met but realized they were scammers? Or maybe, you or the girl decided you weren't a good match?

    You married an FSU girl, so how did you two meet? I doubt it was through UALadys? Or was it??? Are you two happy? I'm not busting your stones here! These are legitimate questions from a guy who is seriously writing to a girl, to a guy who has apparently been there and done that.
    quote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    As I said, I had heard that these girls are incredibly serious about school. The fact that the girl I plan to visit graduates this year is the only reason I have continued to correspond with her with serious intentions and hopes. Had she told me she would graduate in two or three years, I might have balked.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    i suggest you discuss the issue thoroughly.
    That we have, or at least are in the process of doing so. My last letter to her was basically about whether she fully understands how drastic of a change it will be in her life to come to the US. The fact that it will be very hard for her to find a job in her field of study is also something I told her. I have told her that I don't expect her to go get a menial job at McDonald's and that I will support her. For me, work is optional for my girl. It always has been. As her English isn't exactly fluent, I also told her I will pay for her further education in English. She hasn't commented about taking a $20,000 potery 101 course... yet.

    Train returns

  9. #839
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    381

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    Hi PeopleSmoks,

    it's OK. I don't feel you intrude.

    My ukrainian "fiancee" turned out to be a fraud. She was quite intelligent, so she didn't actually try to scam me, before I went to visit her. I stayed there for three months,
    living together with her. For a while together with her family in their flat. A few days after my arrival I was told in no uncertain terms, that...."it is customary in Ukraine to give your sweetheart a present as sign of your affection. Say something minimum $500". When I flatly refused, she flew into an inpressive tantrum. Which I largely ignored, so we made up. After a couple of months we got "engaged", but I discovered, that she hadn't informed her rather numerous other suitors of the fact. She was not reliable, I caught her lying from time to time. The standard in her flat was out of the way to high considering her income. Alltogether the whole thing started to smell fishy, so I finally went home ........ and found four active profiles with her, which had been there all the time. After some heated discussions with her, we broke up. I only lost app. $1100 on it, but the emotional loss and the disappointment were depressing for a while.

    My datinghistory is like this: From 1989 two relationships with polish women. One lasting two years, later one lasting app.ten years. Both initiated with a newspaper ad. After that maybe five years of net-dating, both on local scandinavian sites and also on some international. The local sites resulted in meetings and short relationships in two cases. The international sites led to about a couple of hundred contacts, where I had intensive mailing- and/or telephonecontact with something like 50 of them. I went to visit one in Latvia, but only stayed at her place one day, as she showed the usual eastern arrogance.

    I met my present polish wife by being introduced to her by a friend of mine, while I was in Poland Our marriage has had its stormy periods, mainly because she's a very social urbanite, and I love peace and quiet in the countryside. But such problems are of a more "natural" type, a question of different personalities. There's nothing scammer-like about her, she enjoys going to a second-hand shop and use $20-30, she's completely faithful and hates status-seeking. The biggest source of irritation for me is, that she (and that is very common for FSU women) has an obsession with soap-operas. Sometimes you see this manifested in other eastern women as an unreasonable belief in the american dream. Swimmingpool, Hollywood-style, big car etc. These women spend half their lives in a dreamstate. It can be trying.

    I'm sure you won't be scammed by the visa-tricks etc, and when or if you go east, restrict yourself to the normal amount of courting costs. Dinners, flowers, a bottle of wine.
    If your girlfriend complains, drop her. You can get very cheap and decent accomodation by renting a private flat (I paid $8 a day), and transport costs, beer, tobacco etc. is cheap. So alltogether it doesn't need to be so expensive. While you are there, make sure to create friendships with some locals outside the net-dating scene. They can help you to get contact with the "real" (non-scamming) people. Ordinary people in Ukraine are very decent, and occasionally they speak a little english. This is ofcourse a timeconsuming process, but in the end create better results.

  10. #840
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    623

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    Hey swede! Thanks for the info!!! Another question... where do you find these $8 flats??? Anything advertised on the web carries a western price tag. I've read that citizens of the US and a few other countries don't need a visa to enter Ukraine, but need to show some proof that they have a place to stay. Again, how do I find these cheaper places?

    I'm only planning to spend a week there. I think it'll be a good amount of time for us to get to know each other, but not over stay my welcome if things don't work out.
    quote:she's a very social urbanite, and I love peace and quiet in the countryside.
    Where's Mr. Haney???

    Your current life sounds like the base plot to "Green Acres"! Take it away Prometheus!!![)]

    Train returns

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