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  1. #101
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    Jan 2007
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    Ham & Co.

    I am a successful businessman in my early 40's, with two graduate degrees, including a top 10 MBA program. Money is not a problem for me.

    In the last decade, I have made many friends who married or are married to FSU women. Are they universally miserable? For the most part, I would say "yes," with a couple of exceptions.

    I am not a Russian hating idiot. Far from it. I have nothing but deep admiration for the Russian people and their culture. That is what led me to become involved with my FSU woman in the first place.

    I do think that love with a FSU woman is possible, just not through an agency. I also think that 99% of the women looking for men through agencies are going to have the same unrealistic expectations that the poor duraks who sign up there also have. It is a clash of cultures, expectations, life styles, and values. It is not for the fainthearted, the weak, the self-conscious, or anyone with a thin pocketbook.

    So I say, good for cooldadman. Just don't throw your shoulder out of joint slapping yourself on the back. For every one of you, there are fifty of us.

  2. #102
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    quote:Originally posted by seajay

    Question for cooldadman, journalist.

    I begin by saying I respect your knowledge, and found your postings informative. I hope you answer, but of course will understand if you don't.

    You are married to a Russian lady. Your marriage seems functional. This makes you the elusive "success story" that at least two other participants have challenged to come forward.

    But I get the impression that, unlike most RW seekers, you are a man who has:

    (1) more than a passing command of the Russian language,
    (2) a good understanding of the people there, and,
    most significantly,
    (3) WEALTH. You can afford the constant airfares back and forth to Russia, and you own residences in America and in Moscow - arguably the most expensive city on Earth.

    From your observations, would you say that unless an RW-Seeker has all three of these things, he is just spinning his wheels?
    I am another "success story." But I dare not to speak of it, trembling of the thought that I might awaken the evil spirit of Ham The Great.
    PS.My husband does not have any of the three.

  3. #103
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    423

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    quote:Originally posted by seajay

    Question for cooldadman, journalist.

    I begin by saying I respect your knowledge, and found your postings informative. I hope you answer, but of course will understand if you don't.

    You are married to a Russian lady. Your marriage seems functional. This makes you the elusive "success story" that at least two other participants have challenged to come forward.

    But I get the impression that, unlike most RW seekers, you are a man who has:

    (1) more than a passing command of the Russian language,
    (2) a good understanding of the people there, and,
    most significantly,
    (3) WEALTH. You can afford the constant airfares back and forth to Russia, and you own residences in America and in Moscow - arguably the most expensive city on Earth.

    From your observations, would you say that unless an RW-Seeker has all three of these things, he is just spinning his wheels?
    I am another "success story." But I dare not to speak of it, trembling of the thought that I might awaken the evil spirit of Ham The Great.
    PS.My husband does not have any of the three.

  4. #104

    Default


    Seajay, you ask sincere questions and I actually agree with much of what Ham had to say also. I had traveled previously to the region on short jaunts to cover specific stories as mandated by my employer. While it exposed me to Russian (and Ukrainian) life, staying in western style hotels and being surrounded by guides and translators certainly did not give me a handle on what it would be like to live there day to day.

    Hotels, especially western style hotels, are a big mistake for guys who seek a RW. Not only does it give the impression that you are wealthy, but it shields you from seeing the real world in which she lives. You need to stay in a normal apartment to understand how her life is lived day by day. That also gives you incredible insight into life in her neighborhood. Often you will discover either wonderful character qualities or uncover serious character flaws just by living (even for a week or so) in her neighborhood. No hotel can give you that experience.

    While some agencies are honest and decent folks, most are not. Most are mafia controlled, operated or influenced. The honest ones that I know of are very small. But in the small agency, perhaps there are the ladies who are real and genuine. Usually the smaller town the better. The big cities are full of sharks.

    Better to visit out of the way little cities and villages where family values are still cherished and honesty is a way of life. Advantage: most guys only travel to the big cities where it's convenient. Yet, some of the most stunning and beautiful (inside and outside) girls never see an AM because they live off the beaten path. The average AM would be shocked to discover what he could bring home with him if he would get out of the big cities.

    Those hot 23 year olds are not really looking for a 48 year old dude. They just aren't, no matter how much garbage is written about the supposedly large age differences. Those age differences cannot be seen in Russian society. And if you bring that young hottie here, her looks and sexy accent will have younger and wealthier men circling like vultures. You won't keep her for long.

    Several years ago out of a sincere and heartfelt desire, I converted to Russian Orthodoxy. If you want to see success stories, visit a Russian church in your city.
    Most of these success couples just don't have time to brag about their successes...they are busy having babies, maintaining jobs, adjusting to life, etc. But they are definitely here. The heartbreakers are here also...marrying a RW is not a magic pill for happiness.

    What does a successful marriage looks like:
    1) From observation of other successful marriages, the man has learned at least the basics in Russian. He can tell her that he loves her in the language of her heart. She FEELS it without having to translate it from English to Russian in her mind.)

    2) The man has learned enough about her culture to understand how she views the home, intimate family, and extended family relationships. Unfortunately those are largely different than what we experience in American life.

    She manages the home and is offended when he has a strong opinion on interior decorations, meal preparations, etc. Success stories include the man learning to appreciate Russian foods. Relax, she will become Americanized before you know it.

    She likes it that you have a job, but feels offended when you work late. It reminds her too much of her ex who used to drop off at the bar for hours before coming home to beat her and the kid. In our culture we value overtime and having dinner with a client. In hers, your investment should be in your wife and children.

    3) Success stories realize that she needs Russian friends, especially during the crucial early adjustment years. Guys who shield her from others will lose her. If she is genuine, she wants to include you in her new friendships here. She is proud to introduce Russians to her AM. By the way, as a few years go by she will be more choosey about her friends and eventually her circle will include as many AW as RW. It just takes a little time.

    4) You can take this one to the bank--if you will accept and love her child, then you will own her heart forever. A RW is taught to be loyal to family and if you include her child in your family, then she will make your marriage her number one priority.

    Bringing a childless lady here is a 50-50 crapshoot. Bring a mother here may not be foolproof but gives you a much better chance of success because she will be much more focused on creating a home and family.

    5) Understand what extended family means in her culture. The first time I was asked to share some money so that Uncle Mikailovich could repair his car I was waiting to hear when it would be repaid. My wife was offended. In her culture they care for each other as an extended family. If Aunt Lyuba needs $500 to travel to Poland to see her long-lost sister, everyone pitches in. And it is understood that someday when you have a need, everybody will pitch in for you too.

    During the "Soviet period" most ladies carried little folded up plastic or cloth bags in their purses or coat pockets. Just in case a shop had shoes or bread, etc. The Russian name for these bags actually translated roughly in to English as a ?just in case? bag! Given the chronic shortages, not only did they buy for themselves, but they picked up a loaf for Uncle Evgeniy, Aunt Luda, cousin Oksana, etc. And you could be sure that next week if cousin Oksana stumbled across a shop that had flour, she would get some for you too.

    This is hard for AM to understand from our "tough love" and self dependent American culture. Over there, they SURVIVE by taking care of each other. Resources are often pooled and shared and she will wonder why you hesitate to participate. It makes her feel as if you are selfish or distrustful.

    Success stories understand cultural and language difficulties. My wife can carry on a good English conversation. But I know that sometimes she only understands half of what was said. Just because a person can speak a sentence in a language doesn't mean they UNDERSTAND that sentence. Assumptions are often made, on both sides, which can be damaging. You must practice patience and re-stating important concepts for each other. A lot of ?scams? are simply language or cultural misunderstandings.

    Finally, it would be good for a man to research and learn about old European courtship. That is how she grew up thinking romance should be--you spend time first with her family, asking her father for permission to court her (even if she is 30 or plus) and only at the later stages near marriage are you off doing events on your own. American style "dating" which we make the mistake of thinking to be universally understood, is so far removed from her upbringing that it is often the cause for innocent but disastrous misunderstandings.

    Agencies compound the problem by arranging "dates." It is so far removed from her culture and makes her feel like a piece of meat being inspected before the cattle auction. She in turn thinks, okay, if I can be treated like that, then I guess it must be normal for me to treat AM the same way. The agencies are to blame for many heartbreaks and disasters over just the simple process of arranging "dates."

    Okay, to respond to your observations I'll take each one at a time from your 3 points:

    1) Yes, I have a decent grasp but will tell you that when I first went to Russia to live, the 2 short semesters of beginning Russian at a community college left me totally unprepared. It was by God's grace that I had taken my textbooks, workbooks, tapes, and dictionaries with me. I still study Russian every day.

    2) My first 3 years living in Russia were formative. As I was only ?second string? for my network, the tenured guy got all the plum political stories and trips. While he wined and dined around Moscow, Kyiv, Odessa and St P, I rode Russian trains and busses on guided government sponsored press tours learning about Uzbek weddings, Ukrainian criminal trials, and navigating knee-deep Spring mud in Siberian oil fields.

    During that time I learned to love Russia, her history and her common and ordinary people. Looking back I think I got the better end of the stick?although at the time I often felt underappreciated, especially on important stories when we collaborated together but his name appeared on the byline. Out of necessity I learned how to wear the same clothing for days on end, learned how to bribe the train attendant for a quick shower on a very dirty train, learned not to eat salted fish from the little Kazak grandmothers on the small village train platforms, and learned the two most useful Russian phrases in the universe, which are ?Ne Rah-bow-ta-yit? when something ?doesn?t work? and when nothing gets fixed to mutter in utter frustration and despair ?Eta Ru-cee-ya? (?it?s Russia.?)

    3) Surprisingly I?m not wealthy, but very frugal. Fortunately my RW is a decent artist and already owned her apartment so all we pay now are the utilities and try to keep up with taxes?in a system where taxes can change on a whim. I plan flights far in advance, ride economy coach, and buy from Aeroflot ticket consolidators. Until 3 years ago those flights were paid by an employer but even then I tried to keep costs in line out of respect for those who foot the bill.

    If you have a wealth of character and an open heart, a genuine RW will follow you thru sickness and health, prosperity and poverty. A genuine lady is interested in you being a genuine man. As one AM friend says, be careful who you attract when over there. Finding a RW is kind of like fishing?what you catch depends on the bait you use.


  5. #105

    Default


    Seajay, you ask sincere questions and I actually agree with much of what Ham had to say also. I had traveled previously to the region on short jaunts to cover specific stories as mandated by my employer. While it exposed me to Russian (and Ukrainian) life, staying in western style hotels and being surrounded by guides and translators certainly did not give me a handle on what it would be like to live there day to day.

    Hotels, especially western style hotels, are a big mistake for guys who seek a RW. Not only does it give the impression that you are wealthy, but it shields you from seeing the real world in which she lives. You need to stay in a normal apartment to understand how her life is lived day by day. That also gives you incredible insight into life in her neighborhood. Often you will discover either wonderful character qualities or uncover serious character flaws just by living (even for a week or so) in her neighborhood. No hotel can give you that experience.

    While some agencies are honest and decent folks, most are not. Most are mafia controlled, operated or influenced. The honest ones that I know of are very small. But in the small agency, perhaps there are the ladies who are real and genuine. Usually the smaller town the better. The big cities are full of sharks.

    Better to visit out of the way little cities and villages where family values are still cherished and honesty is a way of life. Advantage: most guys only travel to the big cities where it's convenient. Yet, some of the most stunning and beautiful (inside and outside) girls never see an AM because they live off the beaten path. The average AM would be shocked to discover what he could bring home with him if he would get out of the big cities.

    Those hot 23 year olds are not really looking for a 48 year old dude. They just aren't, no matter how much garbage is written about the supposedly large age differences. Those age differences cannot be seen in Russian society. And if you bring that young hottie here, her looks and sexy accent will have younger and wealthier men circling like vultures. You won't keep her for long.

    Several years ago out of a sincere and heartfelt desire, I converted to Russian Orthodoxy. If you want to see success stories, visit a Russian church in your city.
    Most of these success couples just don't have time to brag about their successes...they are busy having babies, maintaining jobs, adjusting to life, etc. But they are definitely here. The heartbreakers are here also...marrying a RW is not a magic pill for happiness.

    What does a successful marriage looks like:
    1) From observation of other successful marriages, the man has learned at least the basics in Russian. He can tell her that he loves her in the language of her heart. She FEELS it without having to translate it from English to Russian in her mind.)

    2) The man has learned enough about her culture to understand how she views the home, intimate family, and extended family relationships. Unfortunately those are largely different than what we experience in American life.

    She manages the home and is offended when he has a strong opinion on interior decorations, meal preparations, etc. Success stories include the man learning to appreciate Russian foods. Relax, she will become Americanized before you know it.

    She likes it that you have a job, but feels offended when you work late. It reminds her too much of her ex who used to drop off at the bar for hours before coming home to beat her and the kid. In our culture we value overtime and having dinner with a client. In hers, your investment should be in your wife and children.

    3) Success stories realize that she needs Russian friends, especially during the crucial early adjustment years. Guys who shield her from others will lose her. If she is genuine, she wants to include you in her new friendships here. She is proud to introduce Russians to her AM. By the way, as a few years go by she will be more choosey about her friends and eventually her circle will include as many AW as RW. It just takes a little time.

    4) You can take this one to the bank--if you will accept and love her child, then you will own her heart forever. A RW is taught to be loyal to family and if you include her child in your family, then she will make your marriage her number one priority.

    Bringing a childless lady here is a 50-50 crapshoot. Bring a mother here may not be foolproof but gives you a much better chance of success because she will be much more focused on creating a home and family.

    5) Understand what extended family means in her culture. The first time I was asked to share some money so that Uncle Mikailovich could repair his car I was waiting to hear when it would be repaid. My wife was offended. In her culture they care for each other as an extended family. If Aunt Lyuba needs $500 to travel to Poland to see her long-lost sister, everyone pitches in. And it is understood that someday when you have a need, everybody will pitch in for you too.

    During the "Soviet period" most ladies carried little folded up plastic or cloth bags in their purses or coat pockets. Just in case a shop had shoes or bread, etc. The Russian name for these bags actually translated roughly in to English as a ?just in case? bag! Given the chronic shortages, not only did they buy for themselves, but they picked up a loaf for Uncle Evgeniy, Aunt Luda, cousin Oksana, etc. And you could be sure that next week if cousin Oksana stumbled across a shop that had flour, she would get some for you too.

    This is hard for AM to understand from our "tough love" and self dependent American culture. Over there, they SURVIVE by taking care of each other. Resources are often pooled and shared and she will wonder why you hesitate to participate. It makes her feel as if you are selfish or distrustful.

    Success stories understand cultural and language difficulties. My wife can carry on a good English conversation. But I know that sometimes she only understands half of what was said. Just because a person can speak a sentence in a language doesn't mean they UNDERSTAND that sentence. Assumptions are often made, on both sides, which can be damaging. You must practice patience and re-stating important concepts for each other. A lot of ?scams? are simply language or cultural misunderstandings.

    Finally, it would be good for a man to research and learn about old European courtship. That is how she grew up thinking romance should be--you spend time first with her family, asking her father for permission to court her (even if she is 30 or plus) and only at the later stages near marriage are you off doing events on your own. American style "dating" which we make the mistake of thinking to be universally understood, is so far removed from her upbringing that it is often the cause for innocent but disastrous misunderstandings.

    Agencies compound the problem by arranging "dates." It is so far removed from her culture and makes her feel like a piece of meat being inspected before the cattle auction. She in turn thinks, okay, if I can be treated like that, then I guess it must be normal for me to treat AM the same way. The agencies are to blame for many heartbreaks and disasters over just the simple process of arranging "dates."

    Okay, to respond to your observations I'll take each one at a time from your 3 points:

    1) Yes, I have a decent grasp but will tell you that when I first went to Russia to live, the 2 short semesters of beginning Russian at a community college left me totally unprepared. It was by God's grace that I had taken my textbooks, workbooks, tapes, and dictionaries with me. I still study Russian every day.

    2) My first 3 years living in Russia were formative. As I was only ?second string? for my network, the tenured guy got all the plum political stories and trips. While he wined and dined around Moscow, Kyiv, Odessa and St P, I rode Russian trains and busses on guided government sponsored press tours learning about Uzbek weddings, Ukrainian criminal trials, and navigating knee-deep Spring mud in Siberian oil fields.

    During that time I learned to love Russia, her history and her common and ordinary people. Looking back I think I got the better end of the stick?although at the time I often felt underappreciated, especially on important stories when we collaborated together but his name appeared on the byline. Out of necessity I learned how to wear the same clothing for days on end, learned how to bribe the train attendant for a quick shower on a very dirty train, learned not to eat salted fish from the little Kazak grandmothers on the small village train platforms, and learned the two most useful Russian phrases in the universe, which are ?Ne Rah-bow-ta-yit? when something ?doesn?t work? and when nothing gets fixed to mutter in utter frustration and despair ?Eta Ru-cee-ya? (?it?s Russia.?)

    3) Surprisingly I?m not wealthy, but very frugal. Fortunately my RW is a decent artist and already owned her apartment so all we pay now are the utilities and try to keep up with taxes?in a system where taxes can change on a whim. I plan flights far in advance, ride economy coach, and buy from Aeroflot ticket consolidators. Until 3 years ago those flights were paid by an employer but even then I tried to keep costs in line out of respect for those who foot the bill.

    If you have a wealth of character and an open heart, a genuine RW will follow you thru sickness and health, prosperity and poverty. A genuine lady is interested in you being a genuine man. As one AM friend says, be careful who you attract when over there. Finding a RW is kind of like fishing?what you catch depends on the bait you use.


  6. #106

    Default

    [quote]Originally posted by cooldadman

    With amusement I read the info about Fort Ross. While we won't settle this debate by screaming at each other on a forum, and I have no time for a pointless debate, there are a couple of places to find serious info: The Center for Columbia River History in Vancouver, Washington and the Oregon History Project at the University of Oregon in Corvallis, OR might be eye-opening for some.


    As I have told you I have no intention of travelling to the US. I expected verifiable source material as a reference not some 'Institution' that may or may not have what you claim.


    Even more importantly, I think it's high time for the US and Russia to again be allies. And that isn't happening, and not all of that is Russia's fault. Ordinary guys, like you and me, can have an influence in public policy in both countries. Don't you feel it's worth the effort?

    I've already told youy I am not American. Nor am I Russian. I have no reason to involve myself in a campaign for strengthening Russo-American relations. If I choose to do so I would not choose to do it on a obscure forum such as this. That much seems pretty obvcious.

    Bach, I would have thought you intelligent enough to understand that in today's world the one thing an international journalist values over just about anything else is privacy. You won't find Tom Brokaw (and I am certainly not claiming to be Tom) revealing his identity either. And while I'm not targeted for assissination (well maybe my Russian MIL but that's another story), my family's safety (and there are nuts out there who make threats to any kind of published journalist) is more important to my wife and children than for me to fling it about the world wide web.

    It's very easy to make outrageous claims on the internet, my friend.

    I for one could claim I've climbed Everest three times, obtained PHDs from Oxford, Cambridge and Sorbonne while saving the lives of millions by curing cancer, AIDS and any other claimed disease.

    Being a journalist means expecting your proffesional life to be in the public domain. Any real journalist would appreciate that for his/her work to be recognised and respected it must be as widely distributed as possible. Yet you seem unable or unwilling to produce the extensive material you have published. I have not asked you to reveal private personal information, you just use that as an excuse.




    So here is a deal for you: Next time you travel to Moscow let me know. We can meet somewhere public and if I'm convinced you are not a deranged Russian hating idiot, I'll give you a tour. It will include one, or maybe even two popular Russian magazines and a national Russian network. Russian media is pretty closed to the public and via the security processes we will go thru, you'll understand whether or not I'm lying about access to media. You'll need to get me a passport copy and a background check will be done in advance. That part is not for my benefit--it will be a requirement of the people who will grant us such access. Fair enough?


    You have descended to farce. It is not I that have to prove anything but you my friend. Spare me the challenges. I have no interest in any of them. As your claims become wilder with each post, so does my disbelief.

  7. #107

    Default

    [quote]Originally posted by cooldadman

    With amusement I read the info about Fort Ross. While we won't settle this debate by screaming at each other on a forum, and I have no time for a pointless debate, there are a couple of places to find serious info: The Center for Columbia River History in Vancouver, Washington and the Oregon History Project at the University of Oregon in Corvallis, OR might be eye-opening for some.


    As I have told you I have no intention of travelling to the US. I expected verifiable source material as a reference not some 'Institution' that may or may not have what you claim.


    Even more importantly, I think it's high time for the US and Russia to again be allies. And that isn't happening, and not all of that is Russia's fault. Ordinary guys, like you and me, can have an influence in public policy in both countries. Don't you feel it's worth the effort?

    I've already told youy I am not American. Nor am I Russian. I have no reason to involve myself in a campaign for strengthening Russo-American relations. If I choose to do so I would not choose to do it on a obscure forum such as this. That much seems pretty obvcious.

    Bach, I would have thought you intelligent enough to understand that in today's world the one thing an international journalist values over just about anything else is privacy. You won't find Tom Brokaw (and I am certainly not claiming to be Tom) revealing his identity either. And while I'm not targeted for assissination (well maybe my Russian MIL but that's another story), my family's safety (and there are nuts out there who make threats to any kind of published journalist) is more important to my wife and children than for me to fling it about the world wide web.

    It's very easy to make outrageous claims on the internet, my friend.

    I for one could claim I've climbed Everest three times, obtained PHDs from Oxford, Cambridge and Sorbonne while saving the lives of millions by curing cancer, AIDS and any other claimed disease.

    Being a journalist means expecting your proffesional life to be in the public domain. Any real journalist would appreciate that for his/her work to be recognised and respected it must be as widely distributed as possible. Yet you seem unable or unwilling to produce the extensive material you have published. I have not asked you to reveal private personal information, you just use that as an excuse.




    So here is a deal for you: Next time you travel to Moscow let me know. We can meet somewhere public and if I'm convinced you are not a deranged Russian hating idiot, I'll give you a tour. It will include one, or maybe even two popular Russian magazines and a national Russian network. Russian media is pretty closed to the public and via the security processes we will go thru, you'll understand whether or not I'm lying about access to media. You'll need to get me a passport copy and a background check will be done in advance. That part is not for my benefit--it will be a requirement of the people who will grant us such access. Fair enough?


    You have descended to farce. It is not I that have to prove anything but you my friend. Spare me the challenges. I have no interest in any of them. As your claims become wilder with each post, so does my disbelief.

  8. #108
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    692

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    quote:Being a journalist means expecting your proffesional life to be in the public domain. Any real journalist would appreciate that for his/her work to be recognised and respected it must be as widely distributed as possible. Yet you seem unable or unwilling to produce the extensive material you have published. I have not asked you to reveal private personal information, you just use that as an excuse.
    well, yes.
    If you are a journalist and published materials:
    1 you did under your real name, so you're not safe from terrorists etc. Hardly a problem if you don't go seek trouble yourself.
    2 you did under a pen name. Some do so. You are then safer from terrorists etc.
    In both case your work was read by many in published form, so i really see no point in not sharing it here, since you stated you are here in pursuit of professional research.

    quote:3) Success stories realize that she needs Russian friends, especially during the crucial early adjustment years. Guys who shield her from others will lose her. If she is genuine, she wants to include you in her new friendships here. She is proud to introduce Russians to her AM. By the way, as a few years go by she will be more choosey about her friends and eventually her circle will include as many AW as RW. It just takes a little time.
    i read countless insuccess stories complaining about the devil's role played by "russian friends in the west". If a woman is already on the bitter and mercenary side, other "emancipated" FSUWs will boost her arrogance and expectations to the point of no return. If she is modest and caring, she will probably "catch up" and "realize" she's being "used" and no matter what, she can refuse her man sex, have affairs, while being equally entitled to taking him to the cleaners. More than once FSUW forum offered such ill advice.

    quote:5) Understand what extended family means in her culture. The first time I was asked to share some money so that Uncle Mikailovich could repair his car I was waiting to hear when it would be repaid. My wife was offended. In her culture they care for each other as an extended family. If Aunt Lyuba needs $500 to travel to Poland to see her long-lost sister, everyone pitches in. And it is understood that someday when you have a need, everybody will pitch in for you too.
    I'll remove the rose tinted glasses and say that this behaviour -common to most MOBs of all nationalities - is the rule not because of strange clan or fetish rules, but because she is the one among 188 people in her extended family who trapped a foreigner, which means the pot of gold in her life. The pot of gold might be small to microscopic, but this is how they see the deal. I know non-MOBs from Cuba & other places who soon were importing grandmothers, unemployed cousins, crippled half-brothers etc...to the expenses of the western sucker they had trapped. Anyways, something i must avoid at all costs.

    quote:Finally, it would be good for a man to research and learn about old European courtship. That is how she grew up thinking romance should be--you spend time first with her family, asking her father for permission to court her (even if she is 30 or plus) and only at the later stages near marriage are you off doing events on your own. American style "dating" which we make the mistake of thinking to be universally understood, is so far removed from her upbringing that it is often the cause for innocent but disastrous misunderstandings.
    perhaps small village girls in the woods.
    city girls - and city hasn't to be just Kiev or Moscow - are moreless like western girls. The 1970-80s are long gone.
    And i was one who strongly believed in old fashioned courtship, but then i realized women treated/saw me as a deluded buffoon; very painful, but i learnt my lesson.

    quote:I am another "success story." But I dare not to speak of it,
    yes, you wanted to bail out of the FSU and you got a chance. You also got a chance to start a business in the west and all the rest. Hardly chances you could have while in the FSU. You are highly goal-oriented and pragmatic. You said you don't believe in love and were not seeking love...so what were you seeking in a man who'll be probably disabled or senescent or impotent decades before YOU do? Oh, yes...sex doesn't matter and you love changing diapers...please...what did it matter then? Bailing out?
    I'm not putting him down: that's how life is, unless my father & other elderly men i know are bad specimens. But age difference between my parents is 1 year.

    quote:So I say, good for cooldadman. Just don't throw your shoulder out of joint slapping yourself on the back. For every one of you, there are fifty of us.
    unfortunately, perhaps more than 50:1.

  9. #109
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    692

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    quote:Being a journalist means expecting your proffesional life to be in the public domain. Any real journalist would appreciate that for his/her work to be recognised and respected it must be as widely distributed as possible. Yet you seem unable or unwilling to produce the extensive material you have published. I have not asked you to reveal private personal information, you just use that as an excuse.
    well, yes.
    If you are a journalist and published materials:
    1 you did under your real name, so you're not safe from terrorists etc. Hardly a problem if you don't go seek trouble yourself.
    2 you did under a pen name. Some do so. You are then safer from terrorists etc.
    In both case your work was read by many in published form, so i really see no point in not sharing it here, since you stated you are here in pursuit of professional research.

    quote:3) Success stories realize that she needs Russian friends, especially during the crucial early adjustment years. Guys who shield her from others will lose her. If she is genuine, she wants to include you in her new friendships here. She is proud to introduce Russians to her AM. By the way, as a few years go by she will be more choosey about her friends and eventually her circle will include as many AW as RW. It just takes a little time.
    i read countless insuccess stories complaining about the devil's role played by "russian friends in the west". If a woman is already on the bitter and mercenary side, other "emancipated" FSUWs will boost her arrogance and expectations to the point of no return. If she is modest and caring, she will probably "catch up" and "realize" she's being "used" and no matter what, she can refuse her man sex, have affairs, while being equally entitled to taking him to the cleaners. More than once FSUW forum offered such ill advice.

    quote:5) Understand what extended family means in her culture. The first time I was asked to share some money so that Uncle Mikailovich could repair his car I was waiting to hear when it would be repaid. My wife was offended. In her culture they care for each other as an extended family. If Aunt Lyuba needs $500 to travel to Poland to see her long-lost sister, everyone pitches in. And it is understood that someday when you have a need, everybody will pitch in for you too.
    I'll remove the rose tinted glasses and say that this behaviour -common to most MOBs of all nationalities - is the rule not because of strange clan or fetish rules, but because she is the one among 188 people in her extended family who trapped a foreigner, which means the pot of gold in her life. The pot of gold might be small to microscopic, but this is how they see the deal. I know non-MOBs from Cuba & other places who soon were importing grandmothers, unemployed cousins, crippled half-brothers etc...to the expenses of the western sucker they had trapped. Anyways, something i must avoid at all costs.

    quote:Finally, it would be good for a man to research and learn about old European courtship. That is how she grew up thinking romance should be--you spend time first with her family, asking her father for permission to court her (even if she is 30 or plus) and only at the later stages near marriage are you off doing events on your own. American style "dating" which we make the mistake of thinking to be universally understood, is so far removed from her upbringing that it is often the cause for innocent but disastrous misunderstandings.
    perhaps small village girls in the woods.
    city girls - and city hasn't to be just Kiev or Moscow - are moreless like western girls. The 1970-80s are long gone.
    And i was one who strongly believed in old fashioned courtship, but then i realized women treated/saw me as a deluded buffoon; very painful, but i learnt my lesson.

    quote:I am another "success story." But I dare not to speak of it,
    yes, you wanted to bail out of the FSU and you got a chance. You also got a chance to start a business in the west and all the rest. Hardly chances you could have while in the FSU. You are highly goal-oriented and pragmatic. You said you don't believe in love and were not seeking love...so what were you seeking in a man who'll be probably disabled or senescent or impotent decades before YOU do? Oh, yes...sex doesn't matter and you love changing diapers...please...what did it matter then? Bailing out?
    I'm not putting him down: that's how life is, unless my father & other elderly men i know are bad specimens. But age difference between my parents is 1 year.

    quote:So I say, good for cooldadman. Just don't throw your shoulder out of joint slapping yourself on the back. For every one of you, there are fifty of us.
    unfortunately, perhaps more than 50:1.

  10. #110

    Default

    Ham, Re: extended family. I have no doubt that you have examples of why you feel a RW feels she has trapped her man and now wants to bring all the grandmas over. While I've not seen this personally, the sheer numbers of international marriages would dictate what you say to be true to some extent.

    But it certainly isn't universal. My MIL would not come here to live if I paid her. She is comfortable spending the rest of her days in Russia and that is fine.

    The Russian Orthodox church I attend in the USA is about 25% international marriages. We are pretty close to these families and I know of not a single case where there are plans to bring over someone else other than for a periodic visit.

    Regardless of the myths, Russian people love their country and enjoy life amongst their families and friends. Not that such things don't happen, but apparently nowhere near the scale you seem to imagine.

    My biggest challenge is convincing my wife that there is a good reason to continue living in the USA. If it weren't for my two daughters here, I know she would pressure me to be an expat and live there full time. Her business there is thriving and it is only the close relationship she enjoys with my daughters that keeps the issue in check. I meet a lot of AM who live in the FSU with their RW/UW, especially Ukraine where the cost of living has been a lot lower.

    I don't mean to argue with you on the issue, but making a universal blanket statement that all RW are looking for a sugar daddy is simply untrue. I'm sorry that you had a bad experience, but just because you did doesn't not mean that all international marriages are doomed. Many work. A lot more than you seem to be willing to admit.

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