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  1. #111

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    Ham, Re: extended family. I have no doubt that you have examples of why you feel a RW feels she has trapped her man and now wants to bring all the grandmas over. While I've not seen this personally, the sheer numbers of international marriages would dictate what you say to be true to some extent.

    But it certainly isn't universal. My MIL would not come here to live if I paid her. She is comfortable spending the rest of her days in Russia and that is fine.

    The Russian Orthodox church I attend in the USA is about 25% international marriages. We are pretty close to these families and I know of not a single case where there are plans to bring over someone else other than for a periodic visit.

    Regardless of the myths, Russian people love their country and enjoy life amongst their families and friends. Not that such things don't happen, but apparently nowhere near the scale you seem to imagine.

    My biggest challenge is convincing my wife that there is a good reason to continue living in the USA. If it weren't for my two daughters here, I know she would pressure me to be an expat and live there full time. Her business there is thriving and it is only the close relationship she enjoys with my daughters that keeps the issue in check. I meet a lot of AM who live in the FSU with their RW/UW, especially Ukraine where the cost of living has been a lot lower.

    I don't mean to argue with you on the issue, but making a universal blanket statement that all RW are looking for a sugar daddy is simply untrue. I'm sorry that you had a bad experience, but just because you did doesn't not mean that all international marriages are doomed. Many work. A lot more than you seem to be willing to admit.

  2. #112
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    692

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    i live in a small village.
    here a few men married "exotic" women: a few from Cuba; a couple from Brazil.
    There are a couple cases in this stupid village of wealthy men taken to the cleaners by exotic women and ending up in a trailer, but i'm NOT talking about those.
    I'm talking about "still married" people.
    Well, [u]A L L of them have this in common: the exotic woman (not MOBs) brought over her sister(s), cousins, parents or the like: all of them imported AT LEAST ONE RELATIVE, at the expenses of the western sucker.

    quote:but making a universal blanket statement that all RW are looking for a sugar daddy is simply untrue. I'm sorry that you had a bad experience, but just because you did doesn't not mean that all international marriages are doomed. Many work. A lot more than you seem to be willing to admit.
    i never said "all" because i have no way of knowing, neither you do.
    All i can say is that MOST either won't work or will undergo major stress and struggle...and if the man is average Joe and cannot "give the squeaky wheel grease " on a regular basis in the form of money, imported relatives, fancy vacations, trips back home five times a year, hiring domestic helpers, whatever, T H E N there is trouble.
    There are no third party studies about the success rate of MOB marriages. INS studies claimed they stand no better chance than domestic ones; comparing western & FSU divorce rates, one might agree.
    A few uncredited, undocumented studies circulate, some claiming the failure rate goes as up as 80%, while some claim the opposite.
    This said, even booming success rates might just be "in one's imagination".
    Everyone might tend to universalize his own experience, but there is more to "grim predictions" than a few "angry bitter losers" spouting doom&gloom over the internet.
    For example, many western embassies now make a point out of forewarning their citizens about MOB/romance scams: they wouldn't if the problem weren't alarming.
    I followed the day to day drama of the chase of a meek middle aged decent man (or so he sounded).
    His first row ended with him being taken for a ride by a young hottie (a good-time-girl); later he met & married a much older woman. Last time he posted, he was undergoing counselling because his marriage was going down the drain.

  3. #113
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    692

    Default

    i live in a small village.
    here a few men married "exotic" women: a few from Cuba; a couple from Brazil.
    There are a couple cases in this stupid village of wealthy men taken to the cleaners by exotic women and ending up in a trailer, but i'm NOT talking about those.
    I'm talking about "still married" people.
    Well, [u]A L L of them have this in common: the exotic woman (not MOBs) brought over her sister(s), cousins, parents or the like: all of them imported AT LEAST ONE RELATIVE, at the expenses of the western sucker.

    quote:but making a universal blanket statement that all RW are looking for a sugar daddy is simply untrue. I'm sorry that you had a bad experience, but just because you did doesn't not mean that all international marriages are doomed. Many work. A lot more than you seem to be willing to admit.
    i never said "all" because i have no way of knowing, neither you do.
    All i can say is that MOST either won't work or will undergo major stress and struggle...and if the man is average Joe and cannot "give the squeaky wheel grease " on a regular basis in the form of money, imported relatives, fancy vacations, trips back home five times a year, hiring domestic helpers, whatever, T H E N there is trouble.
    There are no third party studies about the success rate of MOB marriages. INS studies claimed they stand no better chance than domestic ones; comparing western & FSU divorce rates, one might agree.
    A few uncredited, undocumented studies circulate, some claiming the failure rate goes as up as 80%, while some claim the opposite.
    This said, even booming success rates might just be "in one's imagination".
    Everyone might tend to universalize his own experience, but there is more to "grim predictions" than a few "angry bitter losers" spouting doom&gloom over the internet.
    For example, many western embassies now make a point out of forewarning their citizens about MOB/romance scams: they wouldn't if the problem weren't alarming.
    I followed the day to day drama of the chase of a meek middle aged decent man (or so he sounded).
    His first row ended with him being taken for a ride by a young hottie (a good-time-girl); later he met & married a much older woman. Last time he posted, he was undergoing counselling because his marriage was going down the drain.

  4. #114
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    23

    Default

    Re: extended family. I have no doubt that you have examples of why you feel a RW feels she has trapped her man and now wants to bring all the grandmas over. While I've not seen this personally...

    Every last one of the FSU wives in my extended circle have brought over extended family.

    Julija from St. Petersburg, father and mother...
    Okasana from Yoshkar-Ola, mother and daughter from prior relationship...
    Kristina from Riga, mother and grandmother...
    Olga from Yekaterinburg, son with MS in wheelchair...
    Vasilisa from Kiev, mother...
    Anna from St. Petersburg, mother...

    The AM's in each of these relationships provide 100% support for the extended family members (with exception noted below), and some also send remittances home. They also pay for legal fees associated with INS difficulties. The lone exception is Olga, who took a job on the west coast where she lives in a hotel with her male boss. Her 60 y.o. AM takes care of the disabled child in her absence. She returns every other weekend.

    These six FSU women together accounted for an additional nine FSU immigrants.

    If you ask any of these 15 people if life is better in America or the FSU, they will all tell you that life is better in the FSU. I have sat at parties and gatherings and listened to the FSU crowd explain in all sincerity that America sucks in every way possible. Which really begs the question. If you hate it here so much, why don't you just go back home?

  5. #115
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    23

    Default

    Re: extended family. I have no doubt that you have examples of why you feel a RW feels she has trapped her man and now wants to bring all the grandmas over. While I've not seen this personally...

    Every last one of the FSU wives in my extended circle have brought over extended family.

    Julija from St. Petersburg, father and mother...
    Okasana from Yoshkar-Ola, mother and daughter from prior relationship...
    Kristina from Riga, mother and grandmother...
    Olga from Yekaterinburg, son with MS in wheelchair...
    Vasilisa from Kiev, mother...
    Anna from St. Petersburg, mother...

    The AM's in each of these relationships provide 100% support for the extended family members (with exception noted below), and some also send remittances home. They also pay for legal fees associated with INS difficulties. The lone exception is Olga, who took a job on the west coast where she lives in a hotel with her male boss. Her 60 y.o. AM takes care of the disabled child in her absence. She returns every other weekend.

    These six FSU women together accounted for an additional nine FSU immigrants.

    If you ask any of these 15 people if life is better in America or the FSU, they will all tell you that life is better in the FSU. I have sat at parties and gatherings and listened to the FSU crowd explain in all sincerity that America sucks in every way possible. Which really begs the question. If you hate it here so much, why don't you just go back home?

  6. #116
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    692

    Default

    Since the "extended family" thing is off topic, i opened another thread.

  7. #117
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    692

    Default

    Since the "extended family" thing is off topic, i opened another thread.

  8. #118
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    423

    Default

    quote:Originally posted by ham



    quote:3) Success stories realize that she needs Russian friends, especially during the crucial early adjustment years. Guys who shield her from others will lose her. If she is genuine, she wants to include you in her new friendships here. She is proud to introduce Russians to her AM. By the way, as a few years go by she will be more choosey about her friends and eventually her circle will include as many AW as RW. It just takes a little time.
    i read countless insuccess stories complaining about the devil's role played by "russian friends in the west". If a woman is already on the bitter and mercenary side, other "emancipated" FSUWs will boost her arrogance and expectations to the point of no return. If she is modest and caring, she will probably "catch up" and "realize" she's being "used" and no matter what, she can refuse her man sex, have affairs, while being equally entitled to taking him to the cleaners. More than once FSUW forum offered such ill advice.
    Ham and I don't agree often, but this time I am with Ham. I would NOT suggest getting her Russian friends for the sake of getting her Russian friends. My advice would be to get to know other Russian-American couples whom you personally know and whom you are personally friends with, and introduce them to your RW, but avoid recently divorced or divorced and re-married (while in the US) RWs, or RWs whose husbands do not look particularly happy with the marriage. On top of that, make sure that you also introduce her to AM-AW couples, so she could observe their interraction for additional source of "food for thoughts". Her education needs to be spread-out as much as possible, and not concentrated on the AM-RW couples, or, worse, coming from recently divorced or divorce-in-progress ladies.

    She will go through alot of adjustment and the Russian friends will be the first ones she would turn to for an advice (and not you), and the quality of the friends will determine the quality of the advice. Women can be very jealous of each other's happiness, money, etc, and will sabotage each other's relationship in a heartbeat just to justify their own failed relations if nothing else, and you should keep that in mind. If her friends avoid you, or she is a different person with them than she use to be with you - better start paying attention and preparing for any unpleasant surpise. Your marriage could be in a little trouble, or a very big trouble. Either way, stop hoping for the best and get proactive with getting advice from me or other experienced members of RW-AM forums on how to best handle the situation. Things can turn very serious very quickly.



    quote:Originally posted by ham
    yes, you wanted to bail out of the FSU and you got a chance. You also got a chance to start a business in the west and all the rest. Hardly chances you could have while in the FSU. You are highly goal-oriented and pragmatic. You said you don't believe in love and were not seeking love...so what were you seeking in a man who'll be probably disabled or senescent or impotent decades before YOU do? Oh, yes...sex doesn't matter and you love changing diapers...please...what did it matter then? Bailing out?
    I'm not putting him down: that's how life is, unless my father & other elderly men i know are bad specimens. But age difference between my parents is 1 year.
    I am soooo done with the aqe difference subject.

    Anyways, I am another one of the good stories, but we won't go into it, not like it matters, really. All RWs whom I personally know are happily married to their AMs (and not one if them is bringing any relatives here that I would be aware off), so from my personal experience the ratio is the reverse: 50 to 1 of happy to unhappy. However, from my work experice, the ratio is what Ham and the rest are pointing out. So, go figure...

    In either case, except for children, I have never seen RWs who got here on marriage or fiancee visas trying to bring other relatives here. I personally don't plan to bring mine because I am the provider for them and it is much cheaper to feed and clothe them when they are in Russia than here. Plus, I don;t want them to have any impact on my marital relations that I cannot easily control.

    People who got here on work visas and want to bring more "workers" here may be more prone to the behavior Ham sees with the Latino ladies. I do not know much about the Latino gals, so I cannot elaborate on the reasons for differences in behavior.

  9. #119
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    423

    Default

    quote:Originally posted by ham



    quote:3) Success stories realize that she needs Russian friends, especially during the crucial early adjustment years. Guys who shield her from others will lose her. If she is genuine, she wants to include you in her new friendships here. She is proud to introduce Russians to her AM. By the way, as a few years go by she will be more choosey about her friends and eventually her circle will include as many AW as RW. It just takes a little time.
    i read countless insuccess stories complaining about the devil's role played by "russian friends in the west". If a woman is already on the bitter and mercenary side, other "emancipated" FSUWs will boost her arrogance and expectations to the point of no return. If she is modest and caring, she will probably "catch up" and "realize" she's being "used" and no matter what, she can refuse her man sex, have affairs, while being equally entitled to taking him to the cleaners. More than once FSUW forum offered such ill advice.
    Ham and I don't agree often, but this time I am with Ham. I would NOT suggest getting her Russian friends for the sake of getting her Russian friends. My advice would be to get to know other Russian-American couples whom you personally know and whom you are personally friends with, and introduce them to your RW, but avoid recently divorced or divorced and re-married (while in the US) RWs, or RWs whose husbands do not look particularly happy with the marriage. On top of that, make sure that you also introduce her to AM-AW couples, so she could observe their interraction for additional source of "food for thoughts". Her education needs to be spread-out as much as possible, and not concentrated on the AM-RW couples, or, worse, coming from recently divorced or divorce-in-progress ladies.

    She will go through alot of adjustment and the Russian friends will be the first ones she would turn to for an advice (and not you), and the quality of the friends will determine the quality of the advice. Women can be very jealous of each other's happiness, money, etc, and will sabotage each other's relationship in a heartbeat just to justify their own failed relations if nothing else, and you should keep that in mind. If her friends avoid you, or she is a different person with them than she use to be with you - better start paying attention and preparing for any unpleasant surpise. Your marriage could be in a little trouble, or a very big trouble. Either way, stop hoping for the best and get proactive with getting advice from me or other experienced members of RW-AM forums on how to best handle the situation. Things can turn very serious very quickly.



    quote:Originally posted by ham
    yes, you wanted to bail out of the FSU and you got a chance. You also got a chance to start a business in the west and all the rest. Hardly chances you could have while in the FSU. You are highly goal-oriented and pragmatic. You said you don't believe in love and were not seeking love...so what were you seeking in a man who'll be probably disabled or senescent or impotent decades before YOU do? Oh, yes...sex doesn't matter and you love changing diapers...please...what did it matter then? Bailing out?
    I'm not putting him down: that's how life is, unless my father & other elderly men i know are bad specimens. But age difference between my parents is 1 year.
    I am soooo done with the aqe difference subject.

    Anyways, I am another one of the good stories, but we won't go into it, not like it matters, really. All RWs whom I personally know are happily married to their AMs (and not one if them is bringing any relatives here that I would be aware off), so from my personal experience the ratio is the reverse: 50 to 1 of happy to unhappy. However, from my work experice, the ratio is what Ham and the rest are pointing out. So, go figure...

    In either case, except for children, I have never seen RWs who got here on marriage or fiancee visas trying to bring other relatives here. I personally don't plan to bring mine because I am the provider for them and it is much cheaper to feed and clothe them when they are in Russia than here. Plus, I don;t want them to have any impact on my marital relations that I cannot easily control.

    People who got here on work visas and want to bring more "workers" here may be more prone to the behavior Ham sees with the Latino ladies. I do not know much about the Latino gals, so I cannot elaborate on the reasons for differences in behavior.

  10. #120

    Default

    Elena, my wife would agree with you 100%. She divides Russians here into "good Russians" and "bad Russians." Although we are both outgoing and friendly, she is more reserved when meeting someone new in the RU/Ukr community until she knows them better.


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