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01-23-2008, 10:47 AM #111Senior Member
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- Dec 2007
haven't left you. Got a cold or something, need a few days rest. Will be back.
01-23-2008, 11:31 PM #112Senior Member
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- Sep 2007
Quote; "i know all that, and as I said, getting repayments for war supplies and getting the most of the cake with minimal effort (=what really happened)."
Seriously, what they apparently wrote in the history books you read strays a bit from reality in this case. FACT: The US lost more troops in 4 years than Britain did in 7, so the losses, although nowhere near the staggering numbers of casualties the Nazis, Italians, Russians, Japanese, or Chinese experienced were there.
What piece of the "cake " did the US get????? I really want to know this one. Territories gained by the US... a few 3rd world islands in the middle of the Pacific. THAT'S IT!!! Oh, a millitary base in Turkey and one in Germany, not the whole country and it's resources.
Quote: "I'm not saying it was right, but as with WWI, maximal gains with minimal losses."
To which I will simply answer with another quote... "No poor dumb bastatard ever won a war by dying for his country. You win a war by making some other poor dumb bastard die for his country." - Gen. George S. Patton, USA. That, ham, is what war is all about! Maximal gains with minimal losses. It's a very simple equation.
Quote: "Americans never go to slaughter to save others; they enter the war late, let others do most of the job, get paid for war supplies they produce in peace at home and get much of the cake afterwards."
Once again, the political and economical situation in the US at the time play so much more of a role in the dicission making process than you apparently understand. Fact; Even prior to the war, "isolationism" was the mandate of the people. Fact: The US was in the middle of THE worst economic depression in this nation's history. Fact: FDR wanted to enter the war because he knew it would boost the economy. Fact: FDR saw Nazi expansion as an eventual threat to the US. Fact: He wanted to help his friend Churchill.
These are FACTS, not my personal opinion, as compiled from what were then secret White House documents. That FDR knew of and allowed the attack on Pearl Harbor as a tool to motivate the public to permit him to declare war is my opinion which coinsides with the opinion of many US historians who have had access to certain documents which support this very distict PROBABILITY as being what happened.
Now, I will set all of these FACTS aside and return to the original debate. You blame Churchill for the Russian occupance of eastern Europe, and I blame FDR for not backing him against Stalin.
So returning to this original debate, I ask you a very simple question. Do you actually believe that at the end of WWII, England had the millitary might to push Stalin's forces out of eastern Europe without US support???????????????????????????
Quote: "Japan could as well have occupied Hawaii, but (as with Hitler & Britain ) they probably never wanted a real all-out war with America; only to make sure they got green light in Asia & the pacific region, much like Hitler never dreamt to disassemble the British empire; diminish it, yes."
Hahahahahahaha!!! And just how long do you really think a Japanese occupation of US soil would have lasted? "All we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant." Adm. Isoroku Yamamoto.
01-24-2008, 06:52 AM #113Senior Member
quote:What piece of the "cake " did the US get????? I really want to know this one. Territories gained by the US... a few 3rd world islands in the middle of the Pacific. THAT'S IT!!! Oh, a millitary base in Turkey and one in Germany, not the whole country and it's resources.
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- Sep 2005
They got to set the pace for world economics etc.
quote: FACT: The US lost more troops in 4 years than Britain did in 7, so the losses, although nowhere near the staggering numbers of casualties the Nazis, Italians, Russians, Japanese, or Chinese experienced were there.
quote:Hahahahahahaha!!! And just how long do you really think a Japanese occupation of US soil would have lasted? "All we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant." Adm. Isoroku Yamamoto.
Or are you saying Americans are tougher than Russians?
quoteo you actually believe that at the end of WWII, England had the millitary might to push Stalin's forces out of eastern Europe without US support???????????????????????????
In spite of being back then THE world power, they botched it on this end much like Hitler did by miscalculation.
Why would America enter another war - i said- to restore Britain as world power? Etc.
What would they tell the american public, after feeding them the tale of being allied with the most honest in the world?
Sorry, miscalculated...Germany was a bit better all things considered...?
I think we did this angle to death now.
01-24-2008, 11:24 AM #114Senior Member
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- Dec 2007
"think we did this angle to death now."
So here's a new one:
In the beginning there was nothing, and it exploded. Something comes from nothing.
All the "fragments" arising from this explosion of "zero-point" are attracted or repulsed by each other, depending on the various charges they have. In the case of simpler structures, such as elementary particles, the result is relatively straightforward. Some kind of balance or reciprocial annihilation is acchieved. In the case of more complex structures, eg biological beings, the situation isn't that simple, because so many factors have to be considered.
If we take complex beings like biological life, the are two outcomes of a meeting-process between differently charged structures (individuals) involved.
One individual absorbs ("eat") the other. The predatory principle, with a one-way flow of matter/energy.
The individuals create an equilibrium between them with a two-way flow of matter/energy. Symbiosis.
For reasons which I will not delve to deep in, the predatory principle seems to be the most fashionable in the universe (it has to do with the strong anthropic principle, creating negative enthropy, and resulting in biological beings functioning as separators. We "split up" the different components of existence into various components). This is mostly, if not completely, a mechanical process.
I have formerly expanded on predation and symbiosis, and will here repeat a little of what I've said earlier. From the point of wiev of the participants, predation can be a dubious method, whereas symbiosis has some advantages. But the problem with symbiosis is, that it's a slower method, and for complex beings (be they humans, angels, small greys or reptils living on Draconia) it requires a "conscious" (aware) effort to effectuate. Predation is "natural" in the sense, that the universe supports this method by making it easy and automatic, whereas symbiosis is working uphill.
Sofar I've talked about what happens, when individuals, cultures or species meet in the predatory (or symbiotic process). Now I will turn to, what happens inside an individual, with a special interest on human beings.
We have mainly three major components: Body, emotions and intellect. My postulate is, that the predatory principle also function between these three parts inside a human being. We are at war with ourselves. (Find your own examples). But the possibility of using symbiosis directed inwards exists. This is the fundament of most methods used for self-developement, no matter what outer wrappings they have (religion, philosophy etc).
Inner predation creates "noise", turbulence, and does not make for any deeper introspection /selfknowledge. So the first step is ofcourse to create inner "silence" and to look at your own mechanisms. A lot of different methods have been developed for these purposes, and it's not my intention to advocate one as preferable. Though a few generalities can be put out.
The best "place" to find inner silence is, when we are in the alpha-brainwave state. Meditation, biofeedback, relaxation, the state between sleep and daily wakeness is the alpha-state. The best way to practise introspection/selfknowledge is to think of yourself as a set of mechanical responses (at the start. Later you'll find some more "free-will" aspects). Inner silence and introspection work together.
REAL change can be made from this situation.
01-26-2008, 07:00 PM #115Senior Member
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- Sep 2007
swede, welcome back. I hope you feel better.
I must inject a third player in your equation from the start. The laws of nature pretty much dictate that there MUST be balance for existance to be maintained.
Even within your theory of preditor versus prey, there is a balance of sorts. Although I am persoally attached to the North American wolf, I think that the African lion would be a better illustration. Thousands of antelope, hundreds of lions. Okay. The lions eat heartily and reproduce, while only the quickest and smartest of the antelope survive. Now there are too many lions and food becomes scarce.
The weaker preditor bloodlines die off for lack of food, while the stronger survive, just as what happened with their prey, until a balance is regained.
But what of the elephants? They are neither prey nor preditor.
Now I go to basic chemistry. One proton (preditor) and one electron (prey) and you have an expolisive situation. Throw a few neutrons (which I haven't thought of a simple word for) into the mix and everything is nice and stable. So we must consider the neutrals as well.
quote:The best "place" to find inner silence is, when we are in the alpha-brainwave state.
I will also elaborate on a few of my personal goals within this framework of thought. I wish to be an elephant, neither preditor nor prey. Since the main theme here is still about the relations between men and women, I will tie it in. Regarding symbiosis, I will take this principle one step further and divide it into two categories. Symbiotic need and symbiotic desire. Symbiosis as it is often defined is two organisms surviving for mutual benefit.
In the FSU/MOB world, this is often broken down to man wants (sorry swede) hottie, and hottie (sorry again, swede) wants a swimming pool, so they make a symbiotic exchange of sorts. What I hope to find, is that certain someone who absolutely does not NEED me for any measurable reason, but who chooses to be with me for reasons beyond that. So, symbiosis can come in several forms as well.
01-26-2008, 08:45 PM #116Senior Member
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- Dec 2007
Hi PeopleS; thanks, I'm OK now.
"The weaker preditor bloodlines die off for lack of food, while the stronger survive, just as what happened with their prey, until a balance is regained."
You're absolutely right. That's the way things are at the food chain (the REAL NEEDS), and no-one can do much, if anything, about it. I'm not trying to make the lion graze with the lamb. I'm talking about unnecessary predation. The need for swimmingpools f.ex. Or for the alpha male to have as many conquests as possible. These are reptile desires without any real need for survival behind them. Only seeking status/glamour.
"Now I go to basic chemistry. One proton (preditor) and one electron (prey) and you have an expolisive situation."
Actually this situation is more like symbiosis. The proton and the electron have a balance together, mutually attracted, but not destroying each other.
"The almighty trick is to be able to retain and bring back what we find there when we return to a fully concious state, and then, to integrate this into our waking reality."
If we compare to the average person's sheepwalking, I will postulate, that the alpha-state is closer to awakened consciousness. But ofcurse we should take the results back with us into normal life, once we have the knack, because "normal" life is where, we spend most of our time. As almost everybody has experienced, the alpha-state (this has nothing to do with alpha males) gives a certain amount of peace. If you can take this with you, you are not so apt to start meaningless fights about nothing.
PeopleS, your own original culture did much of the same. They did many things not directly associated with daily life (initiation, spirit-journeys etc), but everything was incorporated in the survival needs and made a good mix.
"In the FSU/MOB world, this is often broken down to man wants (sorry swede) hottie, and hottie (sorry again, swede) wants a swimming pool, so they make a symbiotic exchange of sorts."
If these two types of people would just shoot it out with each other, both as need and desire, I wouldn't stand in the way of their happiness. I mean sadists and masochists also have a kind of symbiosis. Without ever having had to use their services, I consider hookers as a very respectable part of human community. Business women with relatively fixed prices and deliverance. And it would be ideal, if sex-tourists and scammers did the same. Then you and I could look for our wifies in peace.
I hope everbody understand, that I'm not proposing some kind of yogic lifestyle. My intensions are to demonstrate scam and its antidotes in a broader context. FSU scammers are only one facet of scamming in general. And if you are integrated with yourself (maybe this is a better word than inner symbiosis, though it means the same), your chances of getting positive results in cyberdating are better. Just to take the first pitfall: You SEE the warningsigns, but for some reasons you want this girl so much, that you ignore them. I did this myself. I should have left UA after a week instead of three months.
Raw strength or power is not the answer to cyber-dating. If that was the case, american relationships would be much happier, because americans worship dynamic strength/power. "Wisdom"/integration will help you much better.
I doubt anybody will disagree with me, that a person who's functional gets easier through life than a dysfynctional one. OK, so maybe my suggestions of the why's and how's of being functional as an individual are a bit unusual. But the discussion is an important start to the subject of FSU scamming. The days of innocent dreaming of the cute little perfect woman are over. Now it's time to start thinking either of the mortgages on the swimmingpool or how to approach cyber-dating realistically.
01-27-2008, 05:14 AM #117Senior Member
quote:"In the FSU/MOB world, this is often broken down to man wants (sorry swede) hottie, and hottie (sorry again, swede) wants a swimming pool, so they make a symbiotic exchange of sorts."
- Join Date
- Sep 2005
i said it here
i am not all-out against arranged relationships.
all the more because I found out at my dearest expenses that fluffy, pastel-colored, disinterested relationships are not of this world (well, one in a million maybe, but it's not going to be me ).
the only problem is that one might strike a pretty good balance with an arranged relationship engineered in cold blood, but i'm afraid it is going to be a transient one.
Sure, as long as Pedro is the only dog who bothered visiting abroad while all others self-proclaimed millionaires and neurosurgeons were busy with their Emmy awards nominations...
but his edge is bound to disappear once she lands here.
Financial hardship, illness etc can take heavy tolls, and there is no guarantee that whoever you are, you'll be faring as good as you are today for the next 30 years.
as posted elsewhere:
quote:I believe the concept of a lot of the guys who bring their wives abroad feel this compulsory need to send then to college once they arrive. I can think of no better way to end your marriage, and more importantly seal one?s fate than fall into this fatal trap. Remember, she is selling a bag of goods which generally consists of ?good wife?, ?good mother?? ?cozy home?. Your contribution is ?stability?, ?fidelity?, ?security?. If she is ready to get married, than logic would suggest that her ambition of finalizing or continuing her education are finis. It is amazing to me, that what appear to be bright guys, post on these RW message boards that they are excited to be sending their new FSU bride to the local University to invest in their future together. However, are looking for some desperate seal of approval that this course of action is a good idea. I have always posted that it is the absolute worst idea plausible and would bet money, marbles or chalk, it was their MOB?s idea. I argued with a guy (English chap) profusely over this who had an age differential similar to my wife and I. He began to become insulting, so I left him with the thought and comfort of knowing while he was slaving all day in the salt mines to make the mortgage, know that his 21 year old hottie was learning new and innovating ideas in an exciting environment with chaps her age. I wonder how long it took until the after-hours study sessions kicked in. And how long it would take her to notice how tired out her hubby looked each evening, and how exciting it would be to hook-up with the lad who was pre-med, and would be attending Oxford in the spring?
01-27-2008, 01:58 PM #118Senior Member
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- Dec 2007
"i am not all-out against arranged relationships"
My knowledge of Chinese daily life is secondhand, but from what I hear, chinese marriages generally last longer than they do in FSU (or for that sake the west). When a chinese woman is married, she mostly stays married. In spite of the fact, that there are more men than women in China (meaning a woman or her parents can be more choosy while looking for a husband), this has not made the women into selfabsorbed hedonists.
And the marriages are often based as much upon a sensible approach as on a some romantic fantasy of love. I once read a chinese woman saying, that love is something you develop AFTER you marry.
So with the reservation, that my information is insufficient or outdated, there's a lot to be said about arranged relationships. To put this in context with my own ruminations, it means, that your chances for a functional relationship is higher, if it is based on "integration". Personal integration in each of the involved parts, and also between them. You take all aspects of your individual psychology/character and your lifesituation into consideration.
When writing posts here, I'm always wondering, if some of the readers think, that I'm dishing out platitudes (wrapped in highbrow language), and in this case maybe take the word "integration" as another example. I want to clarify this by putting it into relief with its opposite: Dreaming up a fantasy. I have formerly here talked much about "swapping dreams" as a major part of cyber-dating (and especially as a part of FSUW's sociopsychological mental background). Creating such dreams and using them as a base for a relationship seems to be an impossible startingpoint. You don't know yourself, neither does your partner, and none of you have any idea of the cultural changes implied. This I call non-integration, and it is a common human lack.
On this background it surprises me, that so little interest has been shown on this subject when discussing cyberdating. We get occasionally very good pragmatic observations (eg swazzie and goddiejens), but very little about the psychological, social or cultural mechanisms involved. Except for Ham, PeopleS and me, the wish or will to delve deeper in this direction is small. On the other hand, a lot of people obviously read it, even when we go off in depth into some subject, which at first look seems to be unrelated to cyberdating.
An example: When a western man (especially the american average variety) goes to another culture, he brings a lot of mental luggage with him, which no foreigner can understand. As a european, I have f.ex. big problems understanding the american approach to sex. For me the american attitude on this subject looks like "sheepwalker" indoctrination, mirroring the christian church's very confused opinion of what sex is, and what to do about it. So it's important to look into that phenomenon. As it is with almost every part of life.
01-29-2008, 11:26 PM #119Senior Member
quote:As a european, I have f.ex. big problems understanding the american approach to sex.
- Join Date
- Sep 2007
Perhaps the American fascination with sex stems from our "God fearing" nationalistic roots? Sex has always been a "dirty" subject here, where as I understand it is not so in Europe (I refer to open discussion and sex education in schools, not as though Europeans engage in open sex in the streets). It's kind of like the "forbidden fruit" of life here, and isn't something talked about by "decent" people.
The desire for Betty Crocker, Donna Reid is, in my view, male backlash to the feminist movement of the '70s. We want both in one woman, and I think that is the big attraction to the FSUW. Early propaganda told us that here are these beautiful, sexy women who still have 1950s style American attitudes toward family life. It's a perfect fit! We can't stand our women and there men are all "drunkards"! We give them the love and caring that they want, and we have a hot, young, sexy Betty Crocker who will have dinner ready for us when we get home from work and will then "take care" of other things too.
It sounds good on paper, and maybe there have been a few instances of such marriages between western men and FSUWs, but as we all have learned, reality is a bit different from the propaganda that started all this FSU/MOB stuff.
quote:I hope everbody understand, that I'm not proposing some kind of yogic lifestyle. My intensions are to demonstrate scam and its antidotes in a broader context. FSU scammers are only one facet of scamming in general. And if you are integrated with yourself (maybe this is a better word than inner symbiosis, though it means the same), your chances of getting positive results in cyberdating are better. Just to take the first pitfall: You SEE the warningsigns, but for some reasons you want this girl so much, that you ignore them. I did this myself. I should have left UA after a week instead of three months.
ham is right that Pedro who lives in a studio apartment in east L.A. along with fourteen other illegal immigrants, but told his FSU sweety that he has more money than Julio Englaisis, has no chance of success in a real meeting, but for some reason, he tried anyway. Why??? Did he think she would still love him just because they exchanged e-mails for a few months, even though everything he told her was a lie? This all being based on the premise that the girl was real and not a scammer after Julio Jr.'s money.
I think that MOST of the guys on the stop-scammers forums are basically honest in there correspondence, and it is a matter of how well the scammer hides her/his true self, that are the difference between success and failure. I've been totally straight with the girl I'm going to see, including sending her a photo of myself holding a beer in one hand and a cigarette in the other. She knows who and what I am. Maybe she's a scammer who's waiting for me to take her shopping as I have promised I would? I'll find out in a month, but either way, I know I was honest about myself.
01-30-2008, 08:28 AM #120Senior Member
quote:Pedro who lives in a studio apartment in east L.A. along with fourteen other illegal immigrants, but told his FSU sweety that he has more money than Julio Englaisis, has no chance of success in a real meeting, but for some reason, he tried anyway. Why??? Did he think she would still love him just because they exchanged e-mails for a few months, even though everything he told her was a lie? This all being based on the premise that the girl was real and not a scammer after Julio Jr.'s money.
- Join Date
- Sep 2005
its abyss cannot be measured.
Well, she might NOT be a "scammer", but her perception of Pedro's station is - for all we love it or hate it - what makes Pedro a whole person and ultimately determines her opinion of him and therefore her choice; unfair, maybe... but profiling is as old as man.
Same as Pedro's opinion and therefore choice WILL change if she is a short, chubby, hairy wop woman with olive skin, hollow teeth and Manchu mustaches...instead of the slender, blond beauty queen with flawless ivory skin and colgate smile...
Why do men lie?
Considering only a minute fraction will ever visit, it is a daunting question.
I never wasted anyone's time as that would mean disrespecting myself rather than some stranger I've never met; but some feel otherwise.
I never stop barking up the tree of online braggarts, frauds and impersonators.
I surmise they are poor souls who NEED licensed psychotherapy but cannot afford it, and resort to the internet.
Some may be in pain and hope that by the time of the meeting (which will never come, but they still hope ) they will have shed those 40kg excess weight; will have worked out a killer body; will have regrown hair or undergone plastic surgery; will have climbed the corporate ladder from hamburger flipper to six figures wages, company jets and all that hogwash; will have you name it.
They know they are as fake as three euros coins from Egypt, but they can hope...
I sometimes have a look at IMDB.COM and you'd be surprised how many clowns claim they have met this or that movie celebrity (both big & small ticket )...not at some fan convention or autograph signing event after standing in queue for 13 hours... no, up close&personal...she was their high-school sweetheart; he was their middle school best friend; they met him at some trendy gay party next week; they meet her regularly at her hairdresser's...
And on the other side of the fence gawking lurkers compliment them over their achievements..." Wow Frank...I envy you...I wish I were riding a Rolls Royce like you do "; " Wow Sally...you have a killer body...no wonder Dior offered you a three millions contract"; " Wow Joe...I play saxophone in a basement to raise money to support my aging mother...lucky you for winning seven platinum music awards and for discovering Frank Sinatra...".
Boy oh boy...do frauds LIVE for those compliments...
Like the murderous queer psychopath in THE SILENCE OF THE LAMBS, who would murder women and skin them to sew himself a dress so that one day he'd pupate into the fairy of his maladjusted dreams, they hope to one day...you name it.