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Thread: psychobabbling

  1. #11
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    quote: ham, all industrialized nations have their "less fortunate" areas.
    too bad these "less fortunate" areas take up a large portion of the urban setting, not limited to the occasional dump place...
    [)][B)][:0]

    quote: The first interacial kiss ever televised in the US, was when Capt. Kirk, a white man, kissed Lt. Uhura, a black woman.
    I am highly diffident of this american mentality for several reasons, but mainly because it is duplicitous:
    1 they assembled a zoo in Star Trek, but russians were missing ( charachter Chekov was introduced later after protests from the russian world. Series authors, however, deny doing so. They say Chekov was not supposed to fill in the gap of a russian, but of a "beatles" kind of guy ). George Takei (Sulu) claimed that producers made clear no Japanese was to be allowed, so he -of Japanese descent- was to play some generic "pacific islander". Nichelle Nichols (Uhura) claimed that at some point she felt cheated and wanted to quit, but Luther King himself insisted about the importance of an African character (in the make-believe, Uhura is from "the united states of Africa" [xx(][xx(] ). Nichols said she felt ripped off, as producers had her shoot hours-long scenes, which -oh so mysteriously [:0][)] - fell down in the cutting room.
    isn't this just duplicitous?
    This said, i always say that a good crash course in American politics can be taken watching old wrestling videos and learning from Hulk Hogan's "real american" or Hacksaw Jim Duggan's gimmick against say Nikolai Volkoff (a croatian by descent ), or Iron Sheik or General Hadnan later.

    quote:I know it is very politically un-correct thinking, the elitist idea that just because you have an IQ about 130 and the other guy 80, you are more intelligent than he is. But the 130 guy IS more intelligent, no matter what the equal opportunity freaks say.
    I took many of these IQ tests and always scored like a baboon. Yes, it's right.

  2. #12
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    After all my (hopefully not too confused) preliminary psychobabbling, I think, I can boil everything down to a few essentials.

    Almost every individual on this planet lives as a mental prisoner inside her/his own private belief-system, tunnelreality, dream-(scape). What people in general believe is communication, is usually an effort to "sell" your own dream to someone else.

    A nation, a religion, a cultural group can have a kind of collective dream(scape). America has the collective dream of motherhood, applepie, swimmingpools and alpha males. FSUW "buy" this dream (especially the part about swimmingpools) and in return offer the dream of familyorientation, romance and sex.

    Personally I believe, that you can't swap dreams this way. You can possibly synchronize them with some effort, or you can get lucky and meet someone with a dream similar to your own.

    I usually lean on the citation: "What is left, after you have stopped believing in it, must be true". This is my startingpoint.

    Thus my short career as existential philosopher has reached its culmination, and I will return to less lofty subjects, if you all aren't bored to death by now (can't say I would blame you).

    Ham, you're doing very well with your baboon-score. Anyway the IQ tests are often dubious. I also have a very low IQ according to them, but nontheless I graduated from the scandinavian gymnasium-education (kind of highschool/college) which generally required a minimum of 128 IQ, and later spent 5 years at university. On the other hand, there are areas of life, where I am moronlike. F.ex. going to UA for a girlfriend.

  3. #13
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    quote: A nation, a religion, a cultural group can have a kind of collective dream(scape). America has the collective dream of motherhood, applepie, swimmingpools and alpha males. FSUW "buy" this dream (especially the part about swimmingpools) and in return offer the dream of familyorientation, romance and sex.
    oftentimes it all is just a lie: he isn't a millionaire or whatever, and she isn't Joan of Arc or whatever.
    In my opinion WWW-LD dating is the liars' and bluffers' paradise...all men in their 60s claim to look half their age, to be super studs who can breakdance all night; all women are former models with A+ value standards...
    Barney, 58yo (outraged):
    but Natasha, you told me you were a virgin saving herself for me!
    Natasha, 22yo (soothing):
    but Barney didn't i bleed for you?
    B:
    what about this [shows her a screen capture on his computer in which she's doing it with an African guy ]? That is a "trip report from Sochi" by this African idiot Rufus from New Orleans!
    N (angry):
    well?! So what? Rufus played with my heart!
    B:
    Hmm...so did this Kojiro from Osaka and Pedro from Tocula, eh?! How comes Pedro claims online you accepted $10.000 from him, then disappeared?
    N:
    Pedro had no teeth; at least you wore dentures: that is why i chose you!
    After all you told me lies, too! You are not a millionaire as you told me: you are broke! [points to a pile of collection notices, repossession bills and court orders] And at the battered women's shelter i discovered you have five kids...you never told me that!

  4. #14
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    Ham,

    already 3 years ago, when I was active in anti-scam forums for a while, I met your name, and I share your idea, that spreading light on the subject is very important.

    When I came back from UA at that time, I was a mental wreck, and I used this forum both as a cryingwall and as a source for information. And I got invaluable help (and sometimes made a fool of myself because of my naivity). What people like you and others have done to save western men and societies from problems is praiseworthy.

    But now I also want to look at "dream-selling" as a general phenomenon, of which cyber-scamming is a special variety. I mean, there has been religions, political systems, better-yourself philosophies and general sellings of the Brooklyn bridge or Eiffeltower for untold years. All based on the same kind of unsubstantiated lies as cyber-scamming. And still people buy them.

    My theory is, that humanity as a whole exponentially is loosing grasp on "reality" (what that really is, is ofcourse a complex question; but can we agree on getting food, safety and shelter, paying your bills in time etc as a workable definition for the majority?). The easier lives we get, the more empty we seem to be. And we try to fill the hollowness with "sawdust"; only making the problem worse.

    I do not believe, we are born "empty". And I do not believe that the universe or the individual human being is ONLY a complicated clockwork. To a high degree yes, but we still have possibilities to make personal choices (no matter how small they are). Instead of using this option, most are leaning back and let themselves be engulfed in the various scams ranging from big brother indoctrination to the individual FSUW.

    Sleepwalkers in all contries, unite (and wake up).

    Hmmmm. Maybe I a have a future as a prophet.

  5. #15
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    I believe it was P.T. Barnum who said, "There's a sucker born every minute." This, unfortunately, is a very true statement. Scam artists are certainly not a new phenomenon incorperated into society since the development of the world wide web. People have been conning other people in one form or another, ever since Ugg the caveman reached behind Brap, tapping his opposite shoulder to make him look the other way, as Ugg stole Brap's chunk of mammoth flesh and pointed to the sky claiming a pterodactyl swooped down and took it.

    Let's be honest. Being a scammer IS a high risk occupation. If caught, Ugg may have been thrown from the clan or worse. Today, if caught, scammers risk jail. However, internet scamming is a relatively low risk venture requiring no more than a basic computer and time. The low risk is that although jail is a real possibility, actual prosecution by a victum 8,000 km away is highly unlikely.

    As IQ tests go, I've never bothered. At the age of seventeen, I did score a 98% on the US Navy's entrance exam. They wanted me for nuclear sub training. Now at the age of 44, not signing up remains one of my biggest regrets in life. I would have had twenty years in seven years ago and been eligible to have retired. Funny how the choices of a seventeen year old child can affect the life of a 44 yo adult.

    Regarding the Star Trek "zoo", an old American sports philosophy fits best... "It's not how, but how many that counts in the end." How or why the diversity of the cast came to be is not as important as the fact that it was so diverse at a time when it simply wasn't done at all. Regardless of what Chekov's or Sulu's, supposed nationalities were, here was a guy who "sounded" Russian, during the middle of the cold war, and a guy who looked oriental during a time when the war in Vietnam was escalating. Uhura was a two fold issue being a woman who was an officer and saluted by men, as well as being black. The show was incredibly bold for it's time.
    quote:Almost every individual on this planet lives as a mental prisoner inside her/his own private belief-system, tunnelreality, dream-(scape). What people in general believe is communication, is usually an effort to "sell" your own dream to someone else.
    Interesting thought, but I like to think that it also includes a genuine interest in expanding one's own knowledge. We here in this forum, as well as in others, have exchanged ideas and ideals with both like and opposing minds and opinions. On occasion, we may find a different point of view that we had not considered before, that makes sense, or at least deserves consideration. It is the ego that limits us to believe that we, as individuals, are always right. When a person becomes secure with his own self-awareness, he can expand his mind and accept differences as a part of the big picture.

    If we were all alike, this would be a very boring world indeed! As I searched for my FSU bride, I welcomed differences of opinion. These differences add to conversations as opposed to just making a statement and reading yes as a reply to everything.

    Sleepwalking seems to be more of a symptom than the actual problem? I think it's complacency that's the real enemy... a simple lack of caring... caring about one's neighbor, the homeless guy, your job or whatever. I don't see people as being asleep, they just don't care.

    Now my personal take on "organized" religion. Several expletives followed by... More people have died for no good reason in the name of "organized" religion than any other cause of death. Just look to Britain and the Irish to the north. Catholics and Protestants killing each other over a few silly printed words in a book that was actually wriiten by some guy in the court of King James, when they both worship the same God. Yes there are other factors involved, but...

    Train returns

  6. #16
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    The dreamstate I have talked about is mostly a question of how to recieve the information, we get from the world around us. We have a set of pre-programmed ideas of "correct"/ "not correct" and in the perceptive processing of information from the outer world, we let through that which supports our existing point of wiev and reject that, which doesn't. We have very strong mental filters for doing this. These filters are a big part of our ego.

    A considerable amount of psychological tests supports this idea. Or just think about wittnesses in a court, how they can differ in what they "saw".

    If your filters are sufficiently strong, you will live in a fantasyworld of your own. It can be so bad, that you even lie to yourself. Obviously such persons have very little contact with "reality", and are unable to communicate in a meaningful way. These are what I call sleepwalkers. That's what scared the living light out of me in UA, the lack of real communication.

    As I see it, the ego is not identical with selfawareness. Selfawareness is so to speak at a higher mental level, from which you can observe your ego and "hone" your talents and get rid of unwanted parts.

    Cit PeopleS:
    "When a person becomes secure with his own self-awareness, he can expand his mind and accept differences as a part of the big picture".

    Very true. Once awareness is master and not the ego. The greater the awareness, the smaller the filters, and the smaller your ego.

    The ego usually follows the common predatory pattern, it's: Me, Me, Me. If you can develop awareness the possibility exists, that the less occuring way of relating: Symbiosis, can function. And that's after all what we strive for, when people look for a husband/wife/partner.

    Symbiosis gives possibilities for communication, because it is give AND take (whereas the predatory method is only TAKING). Symbiosis can also give rise to compassion and empathy, because you can understand the other person better. But ofcourse both parts involved must be symbiotic to make it function.

    And the symbiotic relationship is based on the necessity of difference, not from being alike. Both parts gain from the exchange of needed "substances". Thus a man can give "manstuff", and a woman can give "womanstuff", satisfying both part. (For my sake, they can put the unisex idea somewhere, where the sun doesn't shine).

    I don't intend to carry this line of thinking to extremes, but I find it reasonable, that trying to acchieve the state of being a "decent guy" through awareness is a worthwhile aim.

    What some of the organised religions have done to make peoples' lives into misery is beyond description. They are some of the worst predatory/parasitic examples in human history.

    Holy macaroni, now I'll have the inquisition after me also.

    All this maybe sounds very highbrow, abstract and unrelated to anti-scamming. But it isn't. It both puts the right questions, and can give some workable answers.

  7. #17
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    quote:Regarding the Star Trek "zoo", an old American sports philosophy fits best... "It's not how, but how many that counts in the end." How or why the diversity of the cast came to be is not as important as the fact that it was so diverse at a time when it simply wasn't done at all. Regardless of what Chekov's or Sulu's, supposed nationalities were, here was a guy who "sounded" Russian, during the middle of the cold war, and a guy who looked oriental during a time when the war in Vietnam was escalating. Uhura was a two fold issue being a woman who was an officer and saluted by men, as well as being black. The show was incredibly bold for it's time.
    actually UK B-tier series U.F.O shot from 1968 (thus the same era) does pretty much that, too. I still think it was highly duplicitous (because done on purpose) to have-no-japanese; the same years Bruce Lee had scenes cut in THE GREEN HORNET; he usually wore a mask as Kato, aid to the main hero. One day he performs some of his acrobatics, then lifts the mask: the scene ends in the cutting room.
    Later, angry Lee discovers it was because production thought the public won't appreciate an asian face.
    Well, of course Star Trek is basically a giant chipped shoulder idol for public worshipping, the american way (EG no japanese, russians only intended as "Beatles boys" ).
    While the old series is a classic, later (unwatchable) series took this chipped shoulder worshipping to sky-high limits and farcical exaggerations.

    quote:Now my personal take on "organized" religion. Several expletives followed by...
    religion is the first and foremost form of POLITICS and POLICY MAKING, shifting the "burden of proof" or "falsification" on the untangible side of what some angel, deity, demi-god or hallucinating conjurer said or wrote, often in a chain (EG a prophet told you what an angel told him, which a demi-god had learnt from god ).
    Hindus worship Jupiter as protector; but Jupiter can be nasty at times.
    Surprisingly enough, current astronomy will confirm planet Jupiter acts as firewall, preventing comets and asteroids from wandering en masse towards inner-circle planets, eg earth. Any review of the brutal effects of comet Shoemaker-levi impacting on Jupiter can suggest the effect it'd have on earth (several fragments leaving each an impact scar as big as earth itself ); but Jupiter is also nasty, because its gravity created the asteroid belt, between Mars & Jupiter; it ought to have been another rocky planet, but Jupiter's gravity gets in the way...and the asteroid belt is a floating land mine.

    quote:Italians are notorious for their sexual exploits, if not bragging about them.
    Italy is much like Yugoslavia: plenty of different ethnic groups. I could never be mistaken for a latino seducer. The bigger the claims to sexual fame, the faster the hand and the crisper the imagination, i say.

    quote: spreading light on the subject is very important.
    When I was scammed in 1999 (and thank got I grew wise and grew a spine as well ) there was little or no awareness.
    Surprisingly, trying to raise awareness got me so many bitter enemies; some even harassed and stalked me FOR YEARS, taking time to send me hate mail.
    Other loons banded wolfpack attacks against me, and -is it more sad or just plain moronic? - quite a few fell down in flames only weeks, or months after having tried to assassinate my character with accusations of varying degrees of vileness.
    What really must kill them is that I never loose my composure, but laugh at them and poke sarcasm at their childish antics about being millionaires, oscar winners or just plain awesome individuals enjoying the greatest life ever.
    I don't know about THEM, but if I were having the best life ever, not to mention being an emmy award winner, I wouldn't waste time braying like a complete idiot online to let everyone else know...I would be f-cking my many prom queen lovers, instead of writing about it online.

    [)][)][xx(]

    Their pathetic & moronic attempts to foster this image of a "just awesome" online personality or lifestyle of theirs remind more of a mentally handicapped, capricious child crying for attention than of an accomplished millionaire releasing an interview to Forbes magazine...

  8. #18
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    quote:I don't intend to carry this line of thinking to extremes, but I find it reasonable, that trying to acchieve the state of being a "decent guy" through awareness is a worthwhile aim.
    swede, I am far from an enlightened being, but I do understand what it is, and strive toward being capable of such thinking in my own feeble way. I think that is what has allowed this small forum of psychobabbling to continue as it has. Our minds are open to possibilities beyond that which we already know and that allows us to really consider someone else's thoughts and opinions even if they differ from our own preconceived ideas.

    I understand what you mean about "sleepwalkers" and yes, these people are blinded to the outside world by their own preconceptions. "If it doesn't make sense to me, it simply can't be!" So they wander through life missing out on so much and sometimes go as far as to persecute those who even attempt to see beyond the obvious.

    The ego certainly is a big part of the reason why people will not let go and seek something better within themselves. Another problem is the "sheepwalkers". The timid ones who will go along with whatever the egoists "sleepwalkers" tell them.

    Unfortunately, I have a bit of experience with drug addiction. NOT ME, but my ex. It's a similar situation in many ways, and it is somewhat symbiotic. The drug user(abuser) is the "sleepwalker". In some cases not realizing what he or she is doing that's so harmful. The "sheepwalker" is what is called the "enabler". This person often does things they think are helpful to the person they care about, but are actually feeding into the problem.
    quote:Surprisingly, trying to raise awareness got me so many bitter enemies; some even harassed and stalked me FOR YEARS, taking time to send me hate mail.
    Yet, you persisted to enlighten others and warn them about what is really happenning in FSU/MOB dating. I think both swede and I can give you a heart felt "thanks" for having the IQ of a babboon and not knowing when to give up. There are plenty of people around these forums who need to thank you for your advise. I guess they're off "sleepwalking"?

    Now, I'm far from a religious scolar and have spent all of zero days of my life in seminary school, but I still have thought about the subject which in my egotistical way, think should be obvious to most people. Let's just start off with the basics of Christianity. Jesus Christ was a jew, right? Why do so many "good" Christians and Catholics, hate jews, but love Jesus? The Bible is a really interesting story, but that's all it is, a story or collection of stories. The Bible that many of us know today is the King James version. It's just that, a [u]version of a collection of stories written a thousand years before, some many thousands of years, when thinking Old Testiment.

    A bit of "creative license" must have been thrown in by "translators" of the acient text in order to make the stories more appealing to the sitting king. Back then was not a good time to ruffle the feathers of one's king. So the "sheepwalkers" gave the "sleepwalking" king the book he wanted to see.

    Do I believe in God, Christ and all that stuff? Sure, but not in the way someone else wants me to believe.

    Maybe there's something to this worshiping Jupiter?

    Train returns

  9. #19
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    Sorry guys,

    telephonelines have been down here, I'll be back tomorrow (now is 5 morning local time, and I'm not quite functional)

  10. #20
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    quote: The Bible that many of us know today is the King James version. It's just that, a version of a collection of stories written a thousand years before, some many thousands of years, when thinking Old Testiment.

    A bit of "creative license" must have been thrown in by "translators" of the acient text in order to make the stories more appealing to the sitting king. Back then was not a good time to ruffle the feathers of one's king. So the "sheepwalkers" gave the "sleepwalking" king the book he wanted to see.
    FACTS:
    1 there were as many as 30 gospels, more or less with the same currency; some "extra" gospels are still the canon in some views, EG coptic christianity. The rest was expurgated and forgotten as apocryphal not because it lacked an audience, but because they tried to "put together" the less conflicting ones (mind you: less conflicting, not absolutely coinciding ); catholics use the four "synoptic" gospels; "syn-optic" means you can read them side to side and they tell moreless the same story.

    2 gospels were written between about 30 and 100 years after the death of Jesus. Now throw poetic license, ignorance, nearly non-existent scholarly methods, roman persecutions, roman law and political backstage into it and you get just a little more than the "informed" opinion of middle school dropout truck-driving Moe about how black holes impact the sigma (the bigger the black hole supposedly in the center of a galaxy, the faster the rotation of the most external belt of stars, aka sigma ). Whether or not we had a physical and individual person named Jesus, it is certain gospels -much as in the legend of rebel leaders Ned Ludd or Jacques nu-pieds - mixed legends, self-serving accounts etc with some facts. For example the "resurrected after 3 days" thing is an Egyptian myth; the son of a goddess boarding in a barn is a mythriac cult; even Romulus and Remus had a virgin mother seduced by a god; december 25 is the birthday of the sun god etc.


    3 the first popular "translation" of the jewish bible was by "the 70", by a group of 70 scholars who added the vowels to the sacred text and thus gave it a meaning, if i remember correctly. Of course that was open to choice. Translation of Plato and Aristotle gives rise to heated and funny controversies to this day, as several critical terms are open to individual opinion. International treaties are often challenged on the ground of improper translations or self-serving interpretations.

    quote: esus Christ was a jew, right? Why do so many "good" Christians and Catholics, hate jews, but love Jesus?
    Right, that is why honoring Jupiter poses less problems I think.
    [B)]

    quote:Yet, you persisted to enlighten others
    I have been there & i know.
    Most men underestimate the consequences of being scammed or failing and think that real life will roll as easy as banding with a few sociopaths online to harass a clown named Ham.
    Sorry, Barney.
    You will get real cops and real lawyers and real judges and hold your tongue if you don't want to add charges of contempt and aggression to the DV charges your Natasha just filed.

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