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  1. #251
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    Greetings and salutations to my old and dear comrades in the on going struggle against FSU/MOB scamming!

    I have chosen to return to the forums from my self-imposed semi-retirement today, as I see there is a new, and yet very familiar, creature who has recently appeared on these pages. It would seem that there is a new "travel assistance agency" in the city of Poltava, Ukraine who has sent a representative to this and, I think we can all be certain, several other anti-scam forums, to post what can only be viewed as less than credible advertisments with a link to his site conveniently included.

    My friend swede, as I always will attempt to do, I will even tie this stray bullet into the target you have put forth in your last post, and then continue on with my own thoughts more directly. Our new friend David is a fine example of the fact that regardless of the improving economics in Ukraine, although that in and of itself is debatable, that there are still many in the FSU who very much strive to acquire western dollars in any way possible.

    Whatever improvement in the economy of FSU countries has been small. From my limited personal experience, I can say that Ukraine, except for cities like Kiev, Lvov, Odessa and a few others, has been slow to see much improvement. Cities along the sea coast do better than others of course. While I was in Lugansk in early March, the country was in a natural gas crisis. They had not paid there bills to Russia, their main supplier of natural gas. Russia was cutting back on the supply lines, and threatening to cut them off completely. I really don't know how that has all worked out. I haven't seen anything about it on the world news, so I suppose there was an agreement made.

    It's hard to know the thoughts of each individual, but it still seems to me that the general feeling, in at least Ukraine, is "Yankee please come here and spend some cash!"... THEN GO HOME!!!

    I doubt the economy of Lugansk has improved very much in the four months since I was there. Okay, locals could get an apartment for around $100 USD a month. But, Food may cost just as much per month! On an average $250 to $300 USD salary per month, that really doesn't leave much for other things. Regardless of how the average Ukrainian may view a westerner, they absolutely love all the spent cash we leave behind.

    My biggest example of this merchant's attitude is Ivan, the manager of the grocery store where I shopped for food while in Lugansk. I spoke no Russian and he spoke no English, so he personally walked me through his small store to show me around, and presumably to keep my money in his store... or maybe he was just a really nice guy? I would have preferred to have been escorted by the cute cashier, but...

    It's possible that the numbers of "real" FSUWs has dropped, but I saw on another thread that the US FBI is becoming a bit more involved in internet scamming of late. According to the post, they are also working to involve the authorities of other countries in an effort to curtail the problem on an international scale. I can't wait to see how that works out!

    Here's a little something to consider regarding possible motivations for governments where scamming is prevelant... Scenario... Our friend Elena the transexual scam artist cons some guy out of a few hundred dollars. Where is Elena going to spend that money??? More than likely, right into the Ukraine economy that is still in bad need of a solid injection of western dollars! Honestly, why would the Ukraine or local government want to shut down her operation??? Or our new bestest buddy David's operation for that matter??? Yes, I actually wrote "bestest"!!! I don't think it will cause my IQ points to drop since I acknowledged the fact that I wrote that intentionally?

    I personally don't see the number of blatant scammers increasing quite as much as the possibility of an increase in the gold-diggers and pro-daters. The US FBI's involvement will probably prove minimal in internet scamming unless the governments of the countries where the scammers are based step up, but I don't see their numbers increasing. However, even IF these government became involved in stopping flat out scamming, how can anyone really put an end to the gold-diggers or pro-daters?

    If a man travels to meet a girl, all bets are off. She can accept gifts and anything else a man will send her and then simply say she just doesn't really like him and... well that's it!

    For anyone who is wondering if this is what happened to me with Katya and I was too embarassed to come back here, thus my absence... Nope! I never sent her a dime and she never asked for one. Pro-dater??? Maybe? We went out one time, I spent a few bucks, but I also had a great time with her, so I really don't feel ripped off. It was a fun date!

    Well, I hope that my returning dissertation was sufficiently long and drawn out enough to bore each and everyone of you to death!!! And to all the funny little minds who illadvisedly venture into the pool in a vain attempt to sell their pitiful wears... DON"T BOTHER!!! We are all much... MUCH smarter than you!!!!!!!!!![8D]

    Gotta go! I think one of my three Olgas got her ass sucked into the jacuzzi drain again![:0]





    Train returns

  2. #252
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    Dec 2007
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    Hi PeopleS,

    bad, bad boy. Don't you ever walk out on us like that again without notice.

    Whole subdivisions of conspiracy-theories have grown up around your absence, the worst and most horrible being, that you had married one (or possibly several) of the Olgas, and were being exposed to a prolonged housebraking-training, FSUW style.

    But I'm happy to see you back again, having had nothing better to use my time on than to worry myself to death about the expected collaps of the swedish democracy. But ofcourse, all the various secrets agencies of the world will now legally be able to track every single movement on the web, so scammers beware. Big brother is looking at you also. Not only me. A thought that brings me much consolation in sleepless nights.

    PeopleS, it's nice to hear, that we still can disagree in an interesting way, and as always I can only admire your clarity, and I partly stand corrected. My recent opinions here are maybe more based on the present situation in Poland. But where Poland goes, the rest will follow.

    (By the way: The gas-conflict UA/Russia resembles closely one Poland had with Russia some years ago).

    I have not had the chance to meet this David, you mention. This is my first visit to the forum for a while also, but I'll track him.

    As you all can see, the mad prists are out in force again all over the place, but hopefully my bringing this up will not lead to a new censorship purge of the forum again.

    And PS; I'm finally getting divorced from my polish wife. Obviously I haven't got so much spine as Prometheus.

  3. #253
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    Hi PeopleS,

    bad, bad boy. Don't you ever walk out on us like that again without notice.

    Whole subdivisions of conspiracy-theories have grown up around your absence, the worst and most horrible being, that you had married one (or possibly several) of the Olgas, and were being exposed to a prolonged housebraking-training, FSUW style.

    But I'm happy to see you back again, having had nothing better to use my time on than to worry myself to death about the expected collaps of the swedish democracy. But ofcourse, all the various secrets agencies of the world will now legally be able to track every single movement on the web, so scammers beware. Big brother is looking at you also. Not only me. A thought that brings me much consolation in sleepless nights.

    PeopleS, it's nice to hear, that we still can disagree in an interesting way, and as always I can only admire your clarity, and I partly stand corrected. My recent opinions here are maybe more based on the present situation in Poland. But where Poland goes, the rest will follow.

    (By the way: The gas-conflict UA/Russia resembles closely one Poland had with Russia some years ago).

    I have not had the chance to meet this David, you mention. This is my first visit to the forum for a while also, but I'll track him.

    As you all can see, the mad prists are out in force again all over the place, but hopefully my bringing this up will not lead to a new censorship purge of the forum again.

    And PS; I'm finally getting divorced from my polish wife. Obviously I haven't got so much spine as Prometheus.

  4. #254
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    Hey swede! Yeah, I'm back, but not in the same capacity as before. Things have been incredibly hectic of late with work, my search for a "real" good girl, studying Russian etc.

    The censorship here remains in place... in its most recent form, it appears to be debatable as to whether our new friend David should have been censored or his posts commented on by the admin.

    He is clearly selling something, or at least it WAS clear prior to being censored. Perhaps the admin will see fit to censor what I say since it is somewhat critical of their approach to the whole issue of censorship on these pages?

    Censorship can be a touchy subject. David had provided a link to a website for travel to Poltava in all of his posts. It is gone. I chose to voice my opinion regarding his actions... the admin chose to remove his link as though we here are not adult enough to form our own opinions about such things.

    I think it would have been better to read the admin's opinions rather than to have had it censored. The forums should be a hallowed place for the sharing and exchange of thoughts, information and opinions. As much as I did not like the way he went about "sharing" his information, it was not necessarily injurious to anyone.

    It's time for me to step down from my soapbox and go to work. I'll be around a bit more, and perhaps we will have the opportunity to engage in another of our unecessarily long, drawn out debates on the greater social issues facing mankind, using multi-syllable words and run-on sentences?[8D]

    Sorry to hear that you are splitting from your wife, but from some of what you have written here in the past, it would seem that it has been a strained relation for a while.



    Train returns

  5. #255
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    Hi PeopleS,

    let's see to what extent you want to join. But our former roving around (including Ham's participation) did have some meaning, considering that parts of it were almost prophetic, at least in a minor way, seen in the light of recent developments.

    One subject I find interesting in the growing surveillance obsession on the part of authorities and other powergroups, is what the surveillance will be used for. With my usual distrust for powerconcentrations, I do not find theories of 'a state in the state' with its own laws, economy and leadership impossible. They steal as much as they can from public means, and the rest comes from private enterprising. Controlling the web means some advantages in market-economy.

    So:

    You're right in saying, that lovesick and naive WM (and the sextourists) put a lot of money in the FSU economy, but as have been suggested often here, it will be cheaper to stay at home and use the local commercial opportunities. On 'Ladies of negotiable affection'. This will get through soon to most WM, and the romantic (or whatever) tours to FSU will be less common.

    I'm not quite up to my former standard, f.ex. is my frothing around the mouth not what it used to be, but I'll try to prophesize without it: The next big money will be in human traficking; as standard scamming and sex-tourism diminish.

    A fascinating prospect, with a lot of interesting possibilities of paranoia.

    To David: I do not have statistics of the education systems in FSU, but I have met a lot of youths, and they all seem VERY ambitious and industrious concerning the aspect of education. Considering the craving for western life-style is high, and there are no free lunches in FSU, you can either become a criminal or get a good education to get to the promised land of the shopping mall.


  6. #256
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    Hey swede! You,ve touched on several interesting topics. Easy stuff first...

    FSU education- The younger the more likely to have a degree from one of the hundreds of universities around these countries. School is relatively inexpensive to Ukrainian natives, and the hope of getting a good paying job leads many to stay in school.

    Also, combine this with a not so great job market and staying in school seems like a good idea. Ukrainian women have it even tougher than the men. Sure they celebrete Women's Day, but it's a man's world there and a man is far more likely to get the better job even with lesser qualifications than his female counter-part.

    Yes, I have heard that these are very ambitious people. Whether their ultimate goal is that swimming pool in the west or to be able to better scam some shmuck, it's hard to say. But, something I've read, and talked about here is the expectations of western men to mold their FSUW into Betty Crocker. Your 25 year old Ukrainian sweet-heart just spent, "How many years?", getting a degree! Do you really think she is going to want to rub your smelly feet and wash the crap stains out of your underwear?

    Human trafficing- I've heard that this has been going on at least as long as the whole FSUW marrying WM craze. What I've read is that it is very often organized crime in the FSU that brokers deals with well to do "gentlemen" in many countries including the US, England, Dubai, Turkey and Japan.

    One of the few "real" FSUWs gets suckered in by some mobster posing as "Mr. Right" and the next thing she knows, she's a sex slave to some smelly bastard and really has no clue where the hell she is!

    But, I personally see pro-daters and gold-diggers as being the new leaders in the scam parade.

    Local commercial opportunities (nicely put)- Not so appealing to someone who is honestly hoping to find... dare I say it... LOVE? Okay, a guy can get his rocks off for the night, but it only relieves the very localized high blood pressure issue he was feeling in his nether region and not that emptiness he has in his life.

    Survielence- For us in the US, the reason is a easy as 911. The problem is, how far is too far? It's a fine line between personal liberty and security. I personally don't give a rat's ass if some guy from the FBI is reading this. In the US, I can say George Bush is the greatest President in history, or I can say he's a flaming turd! I just can't make threats against his or anyone elses life, and that is somewhat reasonable. Mr. or MS. FBI, Homeland Security, CIA, NSA, ATF, TSA, Secret Service, NASA, NAACP or anyone else who did read this agent type person, please take note that I like Mr. Bush and did not make any kind of threat toward his safety or anyone else's!!!

    FSU tourism is a big money maker for them. Again, I will refer to my knowledge of Ukraine. NO VISA for citizens of the US and many other countries! The government wants us to come and bring our money! Hey, if we take a couple of FSUWs home with us, they'll just make more! Relatively speaking, I didn't spend an exhorbinant amount of money while in Lugansk, but it was more than if I didn't go there.

    I'm sure others spend MUCH more! But for my trip, Lilia (my landlord) made money, Ivan (the grocery store manager) made money, the internet cafe, night clubs, taxis, restaurants, all made a little more than if I had not gone. And that money is maybe put into savings? or spent back into the Ukraine economy.

    Yankee go home? It doesn't seem to be the official sentiment?

    Well, I've rambled on for long enough. It's time to go have one of my Olgas rub my smelly feet![)]


    Train returns

  7. #257
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    PeopleSmoks!

    Train really does return. I figured you were left for dead in a Lugansk whore house, or worse. Please revile us with some tales of adventure, and lovely Olgas with monkey toes.

    Prometheus

  8. #258
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    Hey Prometheus! Sorry I didn't answer your e-mail. As I look back, I think I should have extended you that courtesy even though I had more or less exiled myself from the forums for a time. Again, my apologies.

    It would seem that a good portion of psycho-b has disappeared? I had made a few posts about my adventures in Lugansk when I got home. I gues, I will try to recap for you and anyone else interested, but not tonight. Honestly, there was nothing that turned out to be too exciting after all, although I had some hopes at the time.

    Lugansk wh@re house???? Why would I bother with a wh@re house when I was traveling with a credit card that has a limit greater than the gross national product of Ukraine? Well, maybe not all of Ukraine, but everything east of the Dnepre! Slap a couple hundred grivna on the bar and the FSU hotties swarm like sharks in a feeding frenzy! Take your pick!!!!!

    I'm only kidding, but it actually started to sound good as I wrote it.[)] Maybe next trip??? Honestly, I've continued my search, since it seems that things aren't happening with the lovely Katya. Which reminds me... I really need to update my little website!

    Familiarity makes things a bit easier the second time around, so I have been, again, looking to establish something with ladies in Lugansk. I know a little about the city now and let's face facts, even though Lugansk has a bit of a reputation for scamming, it's no worse than any other city in thwe FSU. I think Nikoleav is getting pretty bad!

    There are a couple of ladies that I have discussed a meeting with and they have been receptive of the idea, at least in our 8,000 km separated communications. At present, I plan to return to Lugansk in September. God, I love my job!!!!! Hey, I'm not a richy rich guy, but I really do have a pretty decent job and can afford to do this sh!t. Especially since I AM quite single!

    Well Prometheus, I'll talk about my three Olgas at another time, but I promise it will be interesting. Dobray vecher![8D]

    Train returns

  9. #259
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    PeopleS. Your next-last post started a chain of thoughts in me (not finished yet). For once I'm unable to form any final, clear, personal opinions.

    But as you bring up the subject of 'love', I think this is as good a startingpoint as any. In the blessed absense of sex-tourists and other lower lifeforms here, it's my impression, that the few steady readers left are individuals with an expectation of love, combined with a wish for something not too 'sheepwalker'-like. Otherwise we wouldn't have taken the trouble to look so far and wide. Even I, living here as a self-imposed recluse, could find myself a consumer-crazed shoppingmall worshipper, with whom I could form an alliance against 'being alone'.

    Those of us, who have the vague phenomenon 'awareness' (as opposed to sheepwalking) as a part of our lives, are few and scattered, and the web has (sofar) been a very effective tool for communication. Maybe unnecessary to add, both bad and good communication.

    Some of you may think, I'm exaggerating my concerns about the socio-psychological, political, ideological and economical effects of the-powers-that-be efforts to control communication. I think, my attitude is reasonable.

    PeopleS gives a good example of the freedom-of-speech in his post. He can state his opinion of the american president, and does not expect any reprisals because of it. Here in Europe the general feeling is not so positive. People are getting slightly paranoic because of the new surveillance laws, and a rather highstrung discussion has started about a possible development towards '1984', Hitler's Germany or some sovjet-like situation.

    As many of you reading this will be americans, you may well think, that this is not your problem. But it is, especially considered from a net-dating point of view. The technical background is, that Sweden (with probably the western world's most advanced surveillance law, which is so vague in democratic safeguards, that it can be used for absolutely anything) has a very central role in web-communication for all european and russian traffic. I've heard mentioned, that up to 80% of all european and russian web-traffic passes the swedish borders, and according to the new law, it's now legal to scan it, read it, store it etc. ALSO if you're an american as one part of the communication.

    With Sovjet in memory still, have do you think, the 'real' FSUW will react to this? Any 'intimate' mails, SMS or telephonecalls can be listened to. And how will anybody with a not-run-of-the-mill attitude react? Original ideas, creativity, criticism of ideologies etc will disappear.

    If my conclusions are correct, we will soon see a complete disappearance of the 'real' and interesting people from the net and on the dating-part only the trite or criminal will remain. You can just as well mate up with a gum-chewing chearleader with TV serials as her highest intellectual acchievement.

  10. #260
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    Hey swede!
    quote: PeopleS. Your next-last post started a chain of thoughts in me (not finished yet). For once I'm unable to form any final, clear, personal opinions.
    Well, either my words hold some validity and have invoked some deep thought from your end, or I wrote something so friggin' stupid that you're at a loss for words???[]

    I used the word "love", but it can be a tricky little bugger to define. But, coupling type of love, or being "in love", I suppose I would generalize as two people who simply enjoy being with each other more than they enjoy being with anyone else?

    I have to say that to have an "expectation" to find love in the FSU/MOB world is not a healthy way to go, and anyone who holds such "expectations" is setting themself up for a bad time. Seek, search, strive to find, but don't expect love.

    I think most of the guys who are really serious about this stuff have done a little research, and hopefully understand that (real) FSUWs just aren't stupid girls looking to become arm candy. So yea, if anyone is looking for a mindless sheepwalking idiot, the FSU is the wrong place to look. Hey, I'm sure you can find a few bubble heads there if you really look for them, but they usually don't go online or to agencies.

    Besides, any man with any level of intelligence would soon be bored to death with a dullard for a wife! So I would say that most of the sincere guys want a smart girl for a prospective wife. A pretty face, hot body and the classic agency propaganda of cooking tasty dishes, keeping a clean and cozy home, etc, are nice too! Honestly, as for the shopping mall worshipping... maybe FSUWs are a little worse on average, but trust me, there aren't many women in the US who wouldn't love to waste half their lives away wandering aimlessly through store after store at the local mall!!![:0]

    Now to the whole "Big Brother" issue... Even going back to the "Cold War" days, I really never had a problem with government observation of communications in general. Such things really never affected anyone's everyday life adversely, except during the infamous McCarthy hearings of the 50s! But he was a douche!!!!!

    Again we need to look at post 911 US mentality to see where we are as a country on the "Big Brother" issue. It's not like WWII when in the words of Yamamoto, "All we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant..." Sure it woke us up! But who and where do we strike back at? Iraq? I have a whole theory on the real reason we bitch slapped that country! Afghanistan? Someone thought he heard a friend of a friend's second cousin twice removed say something about some other guy told a hooker in UAE that he heard Osama Bin Laden was there... Two years ago!

    Terrorism has become a twisted politicalized abomination of a religious ideal. There is no country to attack. It would be like a war against Catholosism or any other religion. The people live everywhere! So how do we defend against another attack like 911? Our goverment looks out for us by monitoring everything! And right now, in this country, we would prefer this small invasion into our lives by our own government than to see the news of another attack as we all saw 7 years ago.

    There will always be those who will oppose what the US government is doing as far as their survielence techniques, but it IS majority rules here... for the most part, and most want this protection from our "Big Brother" or Uncle Sam.

    Heck, I want a US Marshall on the next plane I get on! I hope he's sitting next to me. I want the Secret Service to read this if it means they also read a message from some bastard talking about blowing up a... SHOPPING MALL full of kids and displaced FSUWs!!!

    Now to Sweden... I, me, personally not looking to find a future wife there, so my research on your country's politics is so up to date. But, there have been a few items that a local rock radio station I listen to has picked up on and passed along, which suggest that YOUR "Big Brother" is an assh@le.

    The one I can think of right now is that a couple wanted to name their baby Elvis? But, after a court battle were told they couldn't because the baby is a girl and Elvis is a boy's name! Is that story true?

    There were a few other stories of government incursions into the private lives of law abiding citizens that I can't recall, but seemed quite over the top when I heard about them.

    As to web communication, I don't worry too much unless my e-mails are unexpicably censored prior to reaching their intended destination. Sven, Bjorn, or whoever can read my e-mail all they want. Maybe they'll learn something?

    Also realize that if the Swedish government is monitoring the web, chances are the US government is somehow monitoring them! Things get a bit hazy in the smoke filled back rooms where the under-belly of all governments do their best work, but I would think the US would express a strong disapproval if Sweden's domestic policies infringed on US citizens...toooooooooooooooo much.

    As you can tell, I kind of like my "Big Brother". Mostly because he hasn't anally raped me... YET? I can only hope that we remain a free and democratic nation through these times and that unlike the years of total isolationism prior to the "spat" that was WWII, our government voices it's opinion about things instead of waiting for the worst to happen.


    Train returns

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