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01-06-2008, 07:44 PM #1Senior Member
- Join Date
- Dec 2007
After some initial doubt, I've for several reasons decided to start this topic. Most likely it will die a silent and unmourned death. We shall see.
First I want myself and the closet-sextourists to get out of each others' hair. I can't abide the fourletter words, the bad spelling, braggings and "I almost made it" stories, spiced with expressions like "hot babes" etc. On the other hand the !!!!WOW!!! types do not like words with many syl-lab-les, so here such is concentrated in one place, which they can avoid. In other words, the contributers to this topic can, without interference, bore each other to death, if we wish to.
Next: Having a soft spot for conspiracy theories I'm convinced, that not only anti-scammers read anti-scam sites, a lot of other groups do it also. The scammers themselves, agency representatives, ultrafeminists (just-hating-men-on-general-principles), chatters (having nothing to say, but doing it with many words) and those just curious. The possibilty of disinformation is real, but maybe it's possible to suppress it by being longwinded and circumstantial.
And last, the most important. Internet-dating is after all only one aspect of the the eternal "war of the sexes". To understand net-dating, I believe it's necessary to paint a broader background canvas. Say, are we just a bunch of grumpy querulants or is there really a difference between not being able to get along with your next-door childhood love and a FSUW? Where and what is the difference? Even without a computer, a different cultural background or alcoholism, Sue-Ellen could still be a conartist or pro-dater. Especially if she's good-looking.
I'm not completely sceptical about FSU dating (internet or not). In the last app. 18 years I've had three longer relationships (in the biblical sense) with SFUW, lasting alltogether 14 years. These relationships broke up for the same personal reasons, as any other relationships do. And I've had my share of scandinavian psychos. For me the question is the PROBABILITY of meeting "straights" or "bends" in each group.
So I invite for wievs on this. And I have a few proposals for background-basics:
I believe, that we like all other animals fundamentally are biological robots. We have a digestive system with two openings, a need to reproduce and to fight for a place in a predatory system. That's our startingpoint. But compared to other animals, we also have rather complex emotions and intellect. We have a possibility, individually or culturally, to be more than just reptile-brained. And different individuals/cultures/subcultures use this possibility in various degrees.
And I also suggest to sort out the differences between women and men. For the present bunch of probably half-machos it's maybe an idiotic question. But believe me, in this time of unisex, feminism, equal opportunities and so on, the issue has seriously, repeatedly and heatedly been raised, if there IS any difference (in spite of different plumbing and men's inability to get pregnant). I strongly support the idea, that women and men are almost different species, and as in any other contact with ETs, we need a lot of diplomacy to establish peaceful contact.
08-22-2008, 10:35 AM #291Senior Member
- Join Date
- Dec 2007
sorry about the silence, but soon-to-be ex-wifey is here and it's been a time of activity. But we get along nicely now that we know, that we don't have to spend all the rest of our lives glued together, but only live 'in sin'.
Maybe that's the proper way to relate to a FSUW.
I'll be back in a few days with one of my unending lectures on how I want things to look. Have been somewhere else in the web and collected material.
08-22-2008, 03:29 PM #292Senior Member
- Join Date
- Sep 2007
Hey swede! Just don't let her throw her "SPECIAL YUM-YUM PLACE" in your face and use that to sucker you into something stupid... like buying her a swimming pool as a parting gift!!![:0]
Also, don't use any links to other websites when you share your info. I made a post using a link to a "dating" site that had some pretty interesting info about a "survey" of FSUWs and what they were looking for in a prospective mate, broken down by general age groups (18 to 24, 25 to 30, etc...) that I wanted to share with anyone else who still actually bothers with these forums, but the posting was censored out of existence... presumably because of the link I used?[B)]
BURN THE BOOKS AND SCREW THE CONTENT!!!!!
08-23-2008, 03:34 PM #293Senior Member
- Join Date
- Sep 2007
Hey to anyone who gives a 'beep' about these forums anymore!!! I tried posting this info in a new thread using a link, but the entire thing was blipped into non-existense by our friendly Stalin-like, overtly censoring hosts?
I'm not sure what direction the admin is planning for this forum, but considering the number of active threads, and active participants here, I would say extinction isn't too far around the corner.[V]
I wonder what country this site and this forum is based in? It can't be based in the US! We have a neat thing that we like to call "freedom of speech"!!! Okay, people aren't allowed to yell "FIRE" in crowded public places, unless of course there actually IS a fire, or make death threats to people, but aside from that there aren't too many restrictions regarding what a person can say.
It's understandable that the admin may wish to "protect" us half brain-dead FSU/MOB skirt chasing dullards from the vultures that are circling, but I personally like to think that we are all pretty well capable of figuring things out for ourselves... eventually.
I commented before about the excessive censorship that's going on here when posts by some guy named David popped up all over the place, on threads that had been inactive for months. It was pretty clear that the guy was advertising a website for some agency based in Poltava, UA, as each of his posts had a snappy little catch phrase and a link to the site.
Instead of commenting on David's posts as I chose to do, the admin simply removed the link. I had a chance to check out the site before the admin could "save me from myself". It was no big deal.
Heck admin, have a standard disclaimer ready for links! "The admin at Stop-scammers is not affiliated with, and doesn't recommend the use of the website that this link takes you to." Make a comment about it!!! But unless it's a link to an internet porn site, or something along those lines, I see no real reason to censor it.
Upon my return from my self-imposed "exile from these pages, I found that a great amount of posts had been removed. Was this a system error, or just a mass censoring of topics?
We are no longer able to post pics. We are on the road to not being able to post links. We are all on our way to finding another place to share our thoughts and questions and comments!
Well, here's the info that I originally tried to post through the use of a link.... It's kind of long. That's why I tried to use a link before...
We did a survey of Ukrainian women to help get an accurate answer on the common things that these women like, don't like, the qualities they look for in a man, how many children they think is the right number for a family, what they like about Ukraine, what they don't like about Ukraine. Inside views of how they would like their family to be, how they dress, the values they were raised with, the life style that nearly all of them grew up with, their average education level, how they differ from American women. These answers came from women in three different age groups 18-24, 25-35 and 36-45. It is impossible to write about how each woman will be, so we tried to come up with a description of the "Average Ukrainian woman". We hope that this will help you in your relations and increase your understanding of these special women.
In general the women there are more feminine than American women. Their society is male dominated and the women are used to the man being the stronger sex and the head of the family. Most of the women believe that the man should be the leader in the family, who is not afraid to make decisions for the family. They don't have much money, but they try to dress and look their best to be noticed by the men. The men there have gotten accustomed to all the beautiful women everywhere and it is hard to impress them. The attitude of the Ukrainian men to the women has also shaped the women's behavior in other ways. The low salaries, unstable economy, and the way of life that was inherited from the Soviet Union, force the women to work as much as her husband and to be as strong as he is in all aspects of life, to take care of the family, do all the necessary house work and at the same time to be good in her work. It is common in the evening when people are returning home from their work to see the women carrying big bags with food and necessary things for the house, at the same time the men on the streets will just be carrying a briefcase or maybe a bottle of beer.
The women who are seeking a foreign husband are like any other human looking for a better life. They want to be able to be a woman, not some sort of machine - working, washing, cooking, cleaning, bringing..... They dream of a man who is a gentleman and they also search for respect, passion and at the same time a little independence. Ukrainian women like to feel the attention of the man, to feel that she is necessary, that she is loved. Tenderness, flowers, some presents - this is the sure way to win the heart of a Ukrainian woman! A major fault of Ukrainian men is impoliteness, therefore politeness and you being a gentleman will bring a desirable result.
In Ukraine, the vast majority of these women are either graduates of the University or are in school working to complete their degree. The school that she went to started when she was 6 or 7 and she graduated high school after 10 years of study. Then she went to a University or Technical school to complete her specialized study. When you are starting your relationship with one of these women, it is usually best to have about the same amount of education or more than she has. If you are a high school graduate that is a skilled worker, this will qualify as higher education to her. It is good to list your education level in your ad.
It is harder in Ukraine than it is in the US to get a job using your degree in your profession. There are educated people working in jobs that they are much more qualified for because they cannot find work in their specialty and are forced to take other jobs to provide for themselves and to help their family. She is used to working and a lot of them would like to work and have a career in the West too. Ukrainian women are taught in their families the importance of traditional values and usually the family is more important to her than her career. Nearly all of the women want to have children if she does not already have one or two. Most of them believe that two children is the right number for a family.
These women are usually stronger emotionally than their American counterpart. They have grown up in an insecure financial environment where anything can and does happen, and it is often bad! They have had many disappointments in their life, but still keep going each day. There is widespread dislike and distrust of the government and of banks by the Ukrainian people. Do not worry, it is a stable and safe place to visit. These women do a lot of walking because most families don't own a car. They live where the very cold, cloudy winters that last longer than most of us are accustomed to. Still they always manage to dress nicely, they take pride in their appearance and the way they present themselves.
Ukrainian women are used to the way Ukrainian men look and most picture their husband to look a certain way. So what does the average Ukrainian man look like? He is white, conservative looking: short hair, well dressed, very few men have beards. What really matters most to them is what is on the inside.
In Ukraine, it is common for women to be conservative about sex in the beginning of the relationship. Even though you have gotten along great in your letters and phone calls, when you meet her, take it slow and see how she responds.
They are conservative in their beliefs and very thrifty. People in Ukraine never had very much in material possession and since the collapse of the Soviet Union the life standard in general went down. In Ukraine the percentage of the population that is wealthy is small, there is a small middle class but most of the population is generally in two categories: the poor and the very poor. Life in Ukraine was very hard after the collapse of the USSR. Ukraine was given its Independence but was just turned out on its own. The Ukrainian State started from a condition of serious decline in infrastructures and standards of living at the end of the USSR. At first, the majority of the industries were not able to work in the rules of the market economy. They were not profitable and unemployment increased rapidly. This caused people to look abroad for work. This was the start of the labor migration.
Now the level of living standards continue to rise in this Capital city, the private business is starting to flourish. The conditions in the rest of Ukraine are not as good and the level of labor migration is still very high. It is the only way for the majority of the people to earn enough money to live. Therefore, there are many women looking for foreign husbands as an alternative to the kind of life they are sure to have in Ukraine: a lack of money, rather hard work, all of the house work, alcoholism of the husband is very common in Ukraine and at the end, a very low pension when you retire.
The positive effects of the Soviet collapse are the people gained many freedoms that were not allowed before. The people in Ukraine are mostly happy to have their independence and to be a free from Russian control. The possibilities for the future in Ukraine are brighter. They are working in the world markets and welcome the Western Countries industry, ideas, products, lifestyle and foreign visitors. In Kiev everything is available to those with money. Many families do not own a car. It is unlikely you will find a woman who knows how to drive, she has never had the opportunity.The Soviet traditional values are still predominately common. The people are orderly, friendly, honest, respectful, and with strong family bonds. The people in Kiev are very friendly to Americans.
In Kiev they measure their apartments by the number of rooms, not number of bedrooms. Most have one or two room apartments some may be lucky and have three rooms. In many cases the children continue to live with their parents well past when they are grown up. Very few of the women you will write to can afford their own apartment, even working full time. Do not feel sorry for her because if you do, and you have a good woman, she will not like it, in most cases, and will not be impressed with your pity, it may also make her feel bad about herself or hurt her honor.
It is very important that you demonstrate to her that you are a reliable person. In your letters show her that she can count on you to do what you say you will do. If you are going to call her at a certain time and you always do, if you tell her that you are going to visit and give her a date and you show up, she will really know you are serious. She will love these things and it goes along way toward earning her trust and belief in you. A good woman will not leave her family, friends and country with you unless she trusts and believes in you. These women are looking for husbands, not pen pals, if you just want to write, find someone else to write to. Please do not waste her time and emotions.
When first starting a relationship with one of these women most of them will ask you something like: Why do you look for a Russian wife and not an American wife? or Why can't you find an American wife? For many of these women it is hard to understand why a man would go so far from his home to find a wife. She is used to the Ukrainian men who many of them choose not to make a commitment to a woman and there are so many available women that they do not think that she is special. Many Russian men do not treat a woman like she is special. She may also be asking this question because she is wondering why an American woman would not want to have a relationship with you. Of course there are many answers that will satisfy her. She will want to believe in you and she hopes that you will always be honest with her. It will make her feel special and help her to believe in you. Another real plus is that she will have already seen your photo and read your ad and will have an interest in you from the start.
Now we will go into the specific age groups there are a few differences due to age, political beliefs, and to the amount of life experience she has had. These are the answers from our surveys. One thing you can rely on is that many qualities of women are the same around the world. The main differences you encounter are in the culture, upbringing and other environmental influences that she has been exposed to throughout her life.
18-24 YEARS OLD
With the fall of the USSR a new generation of women was created. Those who are now in this age range differ a lot from those who were growing up under the rule of the USSR. The changes started with Gorbachov becoming the General Secretary of the USSR and the Iron Curtain began to open. The formation of this generation was based with much more western influence (European and American standards). By the time Ukraine gained its independence in 1991, they have had access to many of the same things that we enjoy. American and European popular Movies and TV programs - most translated into Russian. The borders opened and a lot of the Ukrainian people received the possibility to travel to other countries or to learn from the foreigners who now come to Ukraine. They look at their country as part of Europe, not so much as they look at it as part of the old Soviet Union. Many will look for a job or to study abroad. They do not think just within the limits of their own country, but of the whole world. You will find many eager and very eligible women in this age group that would be happy to be lucky enough to find a good foreign husband. These women have beauty and knowledge of foreign languages, English is the most popular. What they desire, is to have a better life than their parents do.
Nearly all of the women in this age group are either going to secondary school or have finished with her higher education. They need this to find a well-paid job there, so they study hard. They start work and they soon realize that some of them can make more money than her parents, they have wider opportunities, and this gives them the possibility to believe in themselves. Most of the women in this age group have not been married yet and do not have children. For 75% of these women it is important that her man have a good education. 25% did not think that education of her man was an important factor. The age of the man that they think is the best age for them is consistently higher than their own age. In general they search for men that are in the range of 30-35 years old. These women are also in an age where their beliefs and values are subject to change more than an older woman. This may have an effect on future relations with her. About 1/2 of these women like men with longer hair the other 1/2 don't like men with long hair. 8 out of 10 of them said that they do not like the way a man looks with a beard. The vast majority said that they would only consider relations with a man that is white.
If they were to leave their country, they would miss most, in Ukraine, their family and friends and their native land. What they like the most about Ukraine is nature, the people, and their country's traditions. What they dislike most about Ukraine is the government and its politics and the poor economic situation that Ukraine is in now. Almost all of these women want to have children and believe that the right number of children in the family is two. About 70% of the 18 - 24 year old women say that the man should be the head of the family and should lead the family. About 25% believe that the relationship should be more of a partnership with the husband and that both should be responsible for the decisions in the family. A very small minority of about 5% think that they should be the head of the family. In this group two out of three think that life is better in Ukraine now than it was when ruled by the USSR. The reasons they gave for this included Increased freedom, more opportunity, the chance to travel and the freedom of choice. No one says what you must do and what you must believe since the collapse of Communism. The other one of three think that Ukraine was better under Communism, the reasons they cited were unstable economic situation, an increase in crime and now there is a very large class difference.
To the women in this age group the most important qualities they desire in a man are:
1. Intelligence - If you are a professional with a degree, they really like this but it is not necessary for a lot of these women. It can be what your profession is, the way you present yourself in your letters, your ideas that are clever, things that you have accomplished in your life.
2. Courage - This does not mean that you are a warrior but it is more that she can count on you to make decisions for the family, that she can feel secure with you, and that she can believe in you and trust in your judgment.
3. Kindness - Most like people that are good to them and are good to the others around them.
4. Reliability - In your letters show her that she can count on you to do what you say you will do. If you are going to call her at a certain time and you always do, if you tell her that you are going to visit and give her a date and you show up, she will know you are serious. She will love these things and it goes along way toward earning her trust and belief in you. A good woman will not leave her family, friends and country with you unless she trusts and believes in you.
6. Passion - They can be a bit shyer than an American woman when you first meet with them. But it is easy to continue to develop relations with them and once you are in an intimate relationship they are very good and devoted lovers!
The qualities they do not like in a man:
1.stupidity; 2.insolence; 3.self-admiration; 4.dishonesty; 5.arrogance; 6.greed; 7.unreliability.
25-35 YEARS OLD
The women in this age range are in the working generation. They were still young when the Soviet Union was dissolved and have grown up in the early days of Ukrainian Independence. Their personalities have fully formed, they may be a bit more realistic and devoted for the long term than some of the younger women. They are not as much dreaming of "Their Prince" as the younger women, but they are not as disillusioned as the older women. Women of this age group are experienced and are generally optimistic. They are still looking for new opportunities and almost all of them have a desire to see the world. They are accustomed to understanding their place in the world community and do not have negative views of the West. They are open to new experiences, to new changes in life. Most of them know or are learning a foreign language, English is again the most popular. These women realize more about life and what they want from it, than the women in the younger age group.
Many of the women have been married by this time. About 30% of these women have not been married yet. There are others that have been divorced. Some of these women will have a child. They are usually eager to have a man that will accept her and be a good father to her child. It is harder to find a husband in Ukraine for a woman that has a child. The Russian men are not known for accepting these children as his own and treating them as well as he would his own. There is a strong motivation for her to find a home where her child will have more opportunity. One of the best ways into these women's hearts is to treat her and her child well and with love and respect. Most of these women are graduates and have finished with her higher education. 60% said that they would like to have a man that has a higher education, 40% said that it was not important to her if her husband had a higher education. About 1/2 said that the appearance of her husband was something that she considered and the other 1/2 did not think that a man's appearance was important to her. 1/2 of these women said that they like the way a man looks with a beard or mustache. The other 1/2 did not liked how men look with them. 2/3 said that they did not like men with long hair and 1/3 did like men with long hair. Again, most of these women said that they would only consider a man that is white to be her husband.
Here is what they said that they liked the most about Ukraine 1.the people; 2.nature; 3.language; 4.Ukrainian traditions. What they said that they liked the least about Ukraine is 1.government corruption; 2.poor economy; 3.lack of unity between the people; 4.the ecology in Ukraine; 5.lazy people. What these women listed as things that they would miss in their native land they said: 1.family; 2.friends; 3.the city of Kiev; 4.native land - were the most common answers. Again nearly all of these women think that it is important for a family to have children. Most thought that the right number of children is two but some thought that three would be better. These women are the same as their younger sisters in who they feel should be the head of the family: 2/3 would like for the man to lead the family and 1/3 wanted a relationship where the two are partners in making the decisions. The age range of men these women thought would be best for them was about 30-45 year old. More than 1/2 said that they think that life in Ukraine now is worse than it was when they were part of the USSR. The others think that life is better now than under Communism. There are many very good, very attractive and very eligible women in this age range from Kiev and the country of Ukraine.
The qualities in a man that most women listed as what she likes and hopes to find in her husband are:
1.reliability; 2.intelligence; 3.honesty; 4.faithfulness; 5.industrious; 6.humor.
The qualities that they do not like in a man are:
1.self-admiration; 2.stupidity; 3.greed; 4.insolence; 5.arrogance; 6.unreliability.
36-45 YEARS OLD
There are not many women in this age group that have not been married before, but most who will answer have said they lost their husband due to divorce or his death. Many of these women have children at home and their chances of finding a Ukrainian man are often not very good. The men there have many women to choose from and most will want to find a younger woman and the average life expectancy for these men is 60 years. There is wide spread alcoholism and smoking is much more accepted there. When the women get to be this age many of them do not want to leave their family and friends. Many of these women think it is too late to make such serious changes in their life by moving to a new country. They are very experienced, they were formed during the power of the Soviet Union and they lived through the break up of this world. They were forced by necessity to live by a new and very different set of rules, this has had an influence on how they are now in their views and behaviors.
Again the majority has graduated a higher learning institute. About 1/2 of them said that a husband with a higher education was important to them. The other 1/2 said that it was not a big factor in her future husband. Not many of the women in this age range speak English, the most common foreign language learned when they were in school was German. The way that they were raised and their life experience has made them even more conservative than the younger women. Nearly all of women in this age think the conditions in Ukraine now are worse or much worse than the life that they had when the USSR controlled their country. They were formed under Communist Russia and they lived through the hard times that followed its break up. This had an influence on how they are now in their views and behavior. Perhaps it may also be that during the time of the USSR was the time of their youth, when the world seemed so nice and full of possibilities.
They are not as concerned with a man's appearance as some of the younger women are but they seem to be even more set in the idea that most would only consider a white man for her husband. The age of the men they seek is usually about 40-55+ years old. They also said very similar things as the younger women about what they like about Ukraine, what they would miss about Ukraine if they were to move from there. The things that they dislike about Ukraine were also similar the most common complaint was about the government and the corrupt system. They also added to this list no social guarantees from the government and poor health care. Most of these women say that they think a man looks better with short hair and no beard. They are also the same in their belief that the man should be the head of the family, though some of them would like to have a relationship where both people have equal responsibilities in the relationship.
The qualities that they look for in a man are very similar to the younger women. Here is what they said they liked:
1.intelligence; 2.kindness; 3.reliability; 4.faithfulness; 5.independence; 6.stability; 7.industrious; 8.honesty.
The qualities that they did not like are also very similar to the younger women feelings:
1.stupidity; 2.greed; 3.insolence; 4.unreliability; 5.self-admiration; 6.arrogance; 7.untidiness.
08-25-2008, 05:42 PM #294Senior Member
- Join Date
- Dec 2007
that was an impressive long post you made. I tend to agree with you about this forum, a bit more communication from admin wouldn't have been amiss. At one time I myself tried to get in contact with it/them, as I then felt uncertain about some of my more rambling posts and would have offered some self-moderation, if I strayed too far from the acceptable.
Considering that you and I already at that time supplied most of the postings, I gathered, that the forum is at its end, as I never got any answer. I haven't been much around on other similar forums for a while now, but it's my impression that the whole subject of scamming is loosing public interest. Maybe because enough people now know about the risks involved in net-dating, so they aren't scammed so often, as it happened earlier.
The fact that there haven't been any new scammees appearing here lately suggests this.
You have been to UA more recently than me, but I do not think, that this 3 year timegap between out visits would influence the survey of the women in your added info. At least not concerning the older two groups. Maybe in the younger one.
My feeling about this info is, that it is very tailored and my guess is, that it origines with some agency trying to sell an idealised version of UAW. But as my 3 month stay in UA was exclusively in Sevastopol (apart from transits through Kiev), I could have seen only a specialised part of the country. My impression was, that Sevastopol has a somewhat better economical situation, and that its importance as a major port also has made it more cosmopolitan. But the UA I met there doesn't look completely like the one in the info. Neither the women or men.
08-25-2008, 09:23 PM #295Senior Member
- Join Date
- Sep 2007
Hey swede! Yea, I think the forums are here are dying, if not dead but we just haven't quite realized it yet? I understand that it uses web space. It seems to have begun with the removal of photo posting. Granted, Prometheus and I went on a bit of a Lisa Douglas tiraid for a while, but if you can't have some fun, why bother at all?
This is for the admin's eyes as much as it is for yours. I've said many times that this is a place for the sharing of thoughts, ideas, opinions, and even a little humor from time to time. "Take my three Olgas... PLEASE!!!"[)] But there is an old saying... "Opinions are like @ssholes, and everyboby's got one..."
The point to that being my opinion about the way admin has handled some things that have been posted in the past by simply deleting them. I feel they should warn about what is said, or make a constructive observation or comment that others can read and then also evaluate and expand upon.
Yes, the part of my post that is in blue is from a website that is selling something, but I thought it was some interesting material for guys to read and was too drawn out to post as I ended up having to do because my original post that included a link to this page was censored from existense.
This site is by an American who is selling newpaper personal ads in Ukrainian newspapers. Some of his sales pitch is similar to things that have been discussed around the forums here. Something I had talked about, and others also had mentioned concerning concentrating on one specific city or region, rather than hopping all over Ukraine or Russia to meet and go out with women.
His sell is to place a personal ad in UA newspapers, in English. I've seen a couple such sites with varying prices. The thought being that mostly English speaking women who have internet access and are not going through an agency would respond, thus no agency fees, and no need for a translator when you go to meet these women. Sounds good?
Of course, it must be realized that your average passport/ visa/ airfare scammer also speaks English and has internet access without the use of an agency! Generally, I thought this might be a good subject to throw out there to see if others might have any comments, but the admin threw the baby out with the bath water so to speak.
During my continued search for a "nice girl" from the FSU, Ukraine in particular, and Lugansk region to be even more specific, I have also noticed more and more, that there seem to be many women who fit into the "will you take care of my kid too" category.
To some extent, I would say that there are a lot of stupid FSUWs out there who are getting involved with smooth talking FSUMs, getting knocked up, and then finding themselves alone with their kid? I say stupid FSUWs only because this seems to be a trend not just in the 30+ yo group, but also amonst the younger girls. Can't they see it coming?
It's like a trend of guys over there making babies and walking away, and these girls looking for a western man to take care of them. It's not so much "looking for a better life", but looking for a guy to support my kid! I guess Ukraine doesn't have the same laws regarding child support payments as we have in the US? Make a baby... walk away?
Anyway, this site is generally refering to Kiev as it's central location for placing ads. Although I know you're the only one who read any of what I wrote, swede, I hope others may also have something to add, or comment on. Maybe the admin will have something to say rather than deleting this post?[:0][xx(]
08-26-2008, 06:49 AM #296Senior Member
- Join Date
- Dec 2007
concerning the admin here, I'll take the stand, that business is business. If forums like this are an effort to legitimate dating-agencies, so be it. I would never expect a commercial company to take overly altruistic attitudes. But ofcourse then there are various ways of making business more or less moral. And I repeat, that in this case a few words to you or me wouldn't have been a big inconvenience. I found it slightly annoying, that the most creative parts of our combined literary activities disappeared, because the content was so many-levelled and probably attracted readers, who would otherwise not be steady on the forum.
But still, looking at the amount of readers on this thread, it seems that we still have a small, but faithful audience. Or maybe the boredom amongst nerds is so big, that sheer desperation will drive 'strays' to read anything, even this.
In any case....The idea behind the info you posted seems sound and corresponds very much with my own suggestions at the start of 'psychobabbling'. If you are find any 'real' FSUW, it would be amongst the traditional, non-'jetset' (non-Olga) population. Those not having internet access, but only reading, and responding to, newspapers would most likely consist of a higher part traditional women.
My own original FSUW contacts started this way, and the about 55 answers I got, were in my opinion ALL OK. Apart from my own direct observations on each of these individuals (I snail-corresponded with a dozen or so of them for some time), the fact that snail-post requires both time and an extra input of activity, gives a certain assurance that scamming is not a major risk. The input is simply too big compared to the output (scam results).
In my own case, two of my four FSUW relationships have been longtime single mothers, and there was definitely an element of wanting a family supporter involved. But not quite as big, as one would expect. In both cases these single mothers had got by on the own for 15-20 years, so their contact with me wasn't a result of desperation. And I was never asked unreasonable involvement in their childrens future; practical or economical. I did occasionally supply some help, but only what I found acceptable myself, and what I would have done in any case for good friends etc.
It must be remembered, that in spite of the Sovjet system's shortcomings, it did (in a relative way) live up to some of the promises build into a socialist system. Especially for an american, used to a minimum of authority involvment concerning children, the responsibility for children is a heavy one. But the FSU system took a lot of this responsibilty upon itself. Childcare-centers, schooling (including university), medical care, all was next to free.
Also the civil laws weren't quite so badly administrated as the laws concerning the relationship between individual citizens and the state. A single parent wouldn't be left out in the cold, legally or practically. One of my FSUW contacts was educated at university level as a kind of social psychologist, and had a job as a supervisor of 'problem' families (alcoholism etc). So the state did care about the kids.
Though I believe, that a FSUM would (relatively) get away easier economically, than a WM.
How it is with the very young generation of women I can't say, but considering that they usually have a high educational background, and that contraception isn't frowned upon the same way as f.ex. in fundamentalistic areas in the west, they shouldn't be especially exposed to unwanted pregnancies.
08-26-2008, 07:01 PM #297Senior Member
- Join Date
- Sep 2007
Hey swede! I got your e-address and will send you a short note to verify and that way you can also have my e-address. Thanks!
I'm not going to dwell on the admin's methodology. I will simply state that there have been some things that could have been handled a little better in recent months.
As for the disappearance of so much from the site??? A server melt down is a possible reason? I really do TRY to look for alternative answers sometimes.
You're of course right about the incredible numbers of readers this quaint little experiment of yours has had over the nearly 9 months of it's existense. Only the CC/ UALadys threads have done better! And you thought, "Most likely it will die a silent and unmourned death."
Okay, so Elena, our favorite transexual, somewhat permiscuous, gold-digging scammer and my three Olgas with their spectacular NERTS, brought some low-brow levity to the generally four-letter wordless thread, filled with exhasorbatingly long run-on sentences that went out of control for entire paragraphs, seemingly with no plausible end in sight, however, at the same time, giving the "closet intellectuals" something to think about while debating on whether or not to send that $500 to Svetlana for her granny's 43rd heart transplant surgery.
That site which I took the article from, was selling their product. The product being that by using their service, a WM would have a better chance to meet an FSUW that wasn't tied to an agency and thus agency fees for letters and such, and that because they had made "special" arrangements with these Ukrainian newspapers, the ad a WM placed would be in English, and therefore, generally only English speaking FSUWs would reply... No communication problem and no need for a translator if the two us you meet and go on a "real" date.
Giving out your home address to a stranger isn't considered to be the best move, so conventional letter writing isn't really what the thought behind this was. Besides, I don't think it's the best idea for the real, apparently single and probably living alone, FSUW to be telling every WM that wants to communicate with her where she lives.
So, e-mail is the easier way to go, but as I said, it also raises the possibilty of passport/ visa/ airfare scammers, since they usually speak English and have computer access. Like everything about FSU/MOB dating, there's a double-edged sword involved.
I can understand how the socialist programs in the FSU may help with the expenses a single mother might face, but it still can't be easy. Let's face it, I've said it before that FSUWs aren't THAT different from their western counterparts in many ways, and seeing that their children are provided for is just another similarity.
The statement that so many of thewse women with kids are looking for love and stability for their kids, as well as themselves, makes a lot of sense to me. And I realize that you haven't been in the active search for some time, but I can tell you that I have seen a lot of profiles of VERY attractive, (sorry buddy, but I have to say... down right hot, sexy, babes!!!!) girls 20ish to 40ish, divorced and with kids in tow!
Maybe this younger generation of FSUWs is more careful not to get impregnated by some jackass that will run away, but I think it's more luck than a concious effort to avoid young motherhood... YET![?]
Well, I'm currently in the process of properly lubricating my brain. Maybe I'll have more to say about this subject a bit later?[8D]
08-27-2008, 07:28 AM #298Senior Member
- Join Date
- Dec 2007
"Giving out your home address to a stranger isn't considered to be the best move, so conventional letter writing isn't really what the thought behind this was. Besides, I don't think it's the best idea for the real, apparently single and probably living alone, FSUW to be telling every WM that wants to communicate with her where she lives."
Times are a'changing, a little too fast in my opinion. And being closer to doddering than you, I would have loved to say: "Scammers, hah; you young people don't know what scammers are. Now in MY youth we had REAL scammers", but the sad fact is, that there was a lot more trust at that time, when I sent my first dating snail-letters (1989-90). Often it was f.ex. not taken as unreasonable, that you could stay at the woman's place (if she had one), and apart from gossiping neighbours, no-one considered it strange.
And remember, at that time it was uncertain how the russian army would react to their orders of withdrawing from the non-russian sovjet-countries. Like most military occupying what in reality were colonies, they had a much better life, than they would get back in Russia. So there was a lot of tension around. But then, maybe WM were considered the advance guard of a western liberation army and got some credit from this. At my first visit to Poland, I was actually exhibited as something rare and exotic to friends and family.
I don't know if you kept an eye on this thread, while you were momentarily absent on whatever crimefighting activity, you were involved in, but the period which was deleted should add another 4500 visits to what the present visit-counting indicates. And I have been thinking about this strange phenomenon our little thread is. For a while I believed, that it was some kind of soap-opera thing. People coming here from terminal boredom and emptiness, living a synthetic, one-way, passive life through our scribblings, but as I am slowly getting more familiar with the esoteric and alien world of nerd-dom, I have the suspicion, that you and I maybe have created a weird form of 'blogg' (would that be a correct description, I'm still a bit uncertain about, what a 'blogg' actually is, but those I've seen reminds me much of 'psychobabbling'). It's a concept, I have some problems relating to, as I see it as a new kind of newspaper chronicling, where people without any special qualifications tell other people, also without any special qualifications, what to think and believe.
So maybe when this forum closes down, we could start a psychobabble-blogg and get, if not rich, then at least famous. Something which possibly could help you in your romantic ventures: "Not to boast, but I'm actually PeopleS, co-founder of 'psychobabbling'... well, you know", and the girls would say: "Gosh" and nudge each other and rush you. While I could fend off the more serious consequences of exaggerated reclusitiviti'ivity (a psychobabble-rule being: Never make a word shorter than you have to) like mild insanity, stopping being a misanthrop because of social starvation or even be nice to children.
I always feel my best, when I have a chance to tell other people, what they ought to do, this way (on a cosmic scale) making it un-necessary for me to do it myself.
Think I would like to challenge you a bit on your dogma 'women-are-almost-the-same-everywhere', if for nothing else than to get some heat into it; but for new readers, I guess I must restate my opinion of women. I definitely consider them belonging to the higher and more complex form of mammals; they have talents men will seldom acchieve, like child-bearing and home-creating (what the uni-sex enthusiasts call 'drudgery') and democrazy being what it is, I'm not against women having voting rights. They are also free to make applepies. Though I never eat the stuff myself, I can see its ritualistic value.
So start digging your trenches, and I will hopefully invent some arguments in my next post.
08-27-2008, 02:10 PM #299Senior Member
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
Well, I have seen the future, and it ain't pretty. There are political machinations in place that will make it difficult for Russian women to correspond with Western men. Meanwhile with EU and NATO membership spreading through the FSU Eastern Europe block, there is far less economic incentive for women to seek a Western male. Borders are opening up and it's just not the meal ticket it once was.
My FSU MOB has a recently arrived friend from Kiev named Natasha who is the template for a new breed of opportunists. She is 28, tall, blonde, attractive with a "legal education" from a Ukrainian university. She married a guy named Jim who is 52, self employed, a bit pudgy, and a homebody.
Within weeks of her arrival, Natasha began to pester Jim over how much she missed her mother, who was granted a visa and came for a visit that turned permanent. Then she began to pester Jim that she wanted to continue her education, so he got her into the university here and started paying her tuition. Then she began to pester Jim that her commute from his house to the suburbs was too far, so he bought her an Airstream in town and began to pay rentals on the lot it sit on. Natasha began to spend 6 nights a week at the Airstream, but left her Russian speaking mother out at Jim's place, so he can take care of her.
Natasha is spending her time with classes, ballroom dancing competitions (she has a hot 20 something dance partner), and dancing at clubs and gay bars till 4 in the morning. She collects people, has two boyfriends in addition to the ballroom dancer, and is basically pursuing a life of hedonistic pleasure on Jim's credit cards.
I think this forum is dying out, because it was Confidential Connection's decision to briefly take down its website that brought everyone out of the woodwork a couple of years ago. Now that the masses are warming sucking their $7 Ukrainian email lattes again, while imagining themselves making love with women young enough to be their daughters, there is little incentive to seek out a rational third party analysis of what is really going on. "The truth? You can't handle the truth!" People don't want the truth, they only want the mind numbing warmth of a fantasy that appears ridiculous to everyone that didn't take the "blue pill."
08-27-2008, 04:39 PM #300Senior Member
- Join Date
- Dec 2007
"Well, I have seen the future, and it ain't pretty. There are political machinations in place that will make it difficult for Russian women to correspond with Western men."
This confirms, what I recently have written about. EU is working very hard now to establish (legal) general surveillance of ALL communication, without any suspicion of crime and without court-orders (under the usual pretext of terrorist-fighting). This has ofcourse led to the suspicion, that what the various EU authorities really want, is a possibility to (outside normal democratic procedures) register dissidents. We really are reaching Orwellian proportions here.
It has also been suggested (and most likely will happen), that all web-sites must be 'quality-certified'. Translated to normal language: Censorship.
All this will make communication difficult.
My former thoughts on this subject has now proven to be a reality, not a conspiracy theory. And the political storms here are gigantic.
"Meanwhile with EU and NATO membership spreading through the FSU Eastern Europe block, there is far less economic incentive for women to seek a Western male. Borders are opening up and it's just not the meal ticket it once was."
I can only agree.