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Thread: psychobabbling

  1. #301
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    Hey guys! One of the FSUWs I've been in communication with has talked about this EU/ NATO push into eastern European politics. According to her, it's a bit of a pickle for the powers that be in Ukraine. A great percentage of the people that live east of the Dnipre are of Russian decent and have family ties to Russia.

    I hear it's not so clear as to which way the Ukraine government will go, despite the rough patch they went through with Russia over natural gas supplies back when I was in Lugansk 6 months ago. There is a fear that Russia might raise gas prices drastically as punishment if Ukraine turns too much toward the western alliances.

    Again, much of my search is centered in the Lugansk region of Ukraine, so I reference much to that region. The economics have improved... some... but not as much as many think. Some regions and cities are doing much better than others to be sure. Inflation is a concern of the common people there, with rising prices keeping pace with salary increases and thus negating any gains.

    Whether a WM can offer a "better" life to an FSUW, seems to depend more and more on regionalization. I'm sure there are still many beautiful girls, of all age groups, who dream of meeting their western "Romeo", but they probably don't live in Kiev, Odessa, Lviv or any of the other big cities that are filled with FSU/MOB agencies and internet access.

    Although, easy internet access is available, and there are a number of agencies, Lugansk seems to fit as being not so economically blessed, with a slightly better potential for women who really want a western mate, and wish to move west. At the same time, there are still plenty of scammers, and I'm sure a "Natasha" or two to be found lurking about!

    It may also be part of the reason why Lugansk has been known for so long as a scam center... Relatively good internet access, combined with the poor economics could easily make an honest person into a criminal.

    Hey swede, I don't think Prometheus was talking about the Swedish secret police monitoring e-traffic, so much as that if general living conditions continue to improve in the FSU, and more specifically, for FSUWs, why will they continue to look west for a way to a better life?

    The trump card is the FSUM. Just how rotten are these guys really? I seriously don't believe it's nearly as bad as the stories floated by agency spin-doctors trying to sell memberships, but there is usually a small truth behind the over stated propaganda.

    The vast numbers of FSUWs ages 22 to 35+ on so many sites, who are divorced and dragging kids along, give me a cause to wonder a bit about the character of these men.

    Well, my three Olgas just entered the boudoir with chocolate sauce, whipped cream and a bowl of strawberries and no spoons... GOTTA GO!!!![:0][][8D]

    Train returns

  2. #302
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    Hey guys! Well, my three Olgas are still trying to clean all of the chocolate sauce from the ceiling of the boudoir and it's beginning to look as though I'm going to have to have Alfred do some painting, but it was well worth it!!!![:0]

    I'd like to expand a bit on the character of the FSUM as still being motivation for FSUWs to look west. My personal experience with them is very limited, so it's really very hard for me to form much of an informed opinion.

    In Lugansk, my contact with the grocery store manager was essentially on a business level, as it was in his best interest for me to shop in his store? Or maybe he was just a nice guy???

    But, what is the REAL attitude of these men toward the FSUW? As has been said before, where there's smoke, there's fire. At least, usually this holds true. Are FSUMs such beasts as portrayed by so much agency and FSU/MOB website propaganda? I'm sure they're not THAT bad, but I can imagine there is some truth to the stories?

    As I've also touched on, there is the number of FSUWs, who are divorced and have kids on so many sites. This leads me to start to believe that there IS an attitude of irresposiblity among FSUMs that may rival that of so many "makin' welfare babies" types here in the US... Make a kid and move on to the next girl?

    The fact that FSUWs out number FSUMs goes a little beyond female longevity. FSUWs generally out number their male counterparts within all age groups. Does this add fuel to the FSUM attitude of, "I can always find another girl"?

    Input! Please!!![8D]



    Train returns

  3. #303
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    Sorry about the silence again, but all lines of any kind have been down for almost a week. The blessings of living in the countryside.

    Cit Peoples:

    "Hey swede, I don't think Prometheus was talking about the Swedish secret police monitoring e-traffic, so much as that if general living conditions continue to improve in the FSU, and more specifically, for FSUWs, why will they continue to look west for a way to a better life?"

    I will take this as a startingpoint and later include other parts of your recent posts in my answer.

    In spite of my love of conspiracy theory, I'm still not that far gone, that I see conspiracies everywhere. What I do see is a growing polarisation with a 'if you're not with me, you're against me' content. And that I take present swedish policy as an example, is because Sweden has had a long-time history of neutrality, so if that kind of thing happens here, it's a sure sign of enforced black/white choices (our present governmental crisis being US inspired and supported).

    I do not believe, that the average FSU person will take our local government's experiment in Big Brother'ing as a major point, but taken as an expression of a generally hardening 'taking sides' process, it is significant. The unrest is growing, with a steadily increasing distrust of american foreign policy. People whom I for years have known to be US sympathisers are now getting to the 'yankee, go home' stage (as I've mentioned before). And this is Europe, I'm talking about, with it's long time association with America. What anti-american feelings now exist in Africa, the middle east and FSU I can only guess at. But they won't be less than here. In FSU even the non-russian parts of populations are beginning to go this way. And this will ofcourse eventually make communication problems also at individual level. Very few are now buying the official version of 'world policing based on a boyscout morality'.

    Certain aspects of FSU mentality is something I've never been able to fathom completely. There's no doubt, that a greater amount of alcoholism exists (that includes women also), but making that into a general explanation is exaggerated. A few years ago I read somewhere, that the average marriage in Russia was 1,2 years (or was it 1,8), and with my personal knowledge of FSUW I am sure, that it's not only the men making it so, or because alcoholism was involved. But the man/woman relationship there is so complex, that it's the study of a lifetime. Both parts are 'dancing around' the other in highly formalistic patterns, showing signs of 'traditional' sex-roles, respect and obligations, but underneath there's a seething discontent, manifesting in the men going to safe ground in bars as their territory and women staying at home, where they rule with matriarchial power (possibly with the threat of going to strike concerning cooking and vacumcleaning, which few FSUM would 'lower' themselves to). The closest I can come to describe it is to make a comparison to the science-fiction writer Frank Herbert, who wrote some extremely deep books on human relationships and existentialism.

    Concerning the economical part of east/west dating I believe, that the disappearance of 'free' sites could be a key to this question. A growing economy (as undoubtly happens in many places in FSU), almost up to west-european standard, would ofcourse explain some of the present situation, but not all of it. There would still be geographical areas of unemployment and stagnant economy, and 'free' sites would be an attractive option for poor women or women, who believe they are past last-sales-date. The language barrier was never any problem before, as you can have translation done cheap privately, so why should it be now.

    People in FSU are incredibly well-informed and down-to-earth (at least compared to the average western sheepwalker), and choosing agencies as a starting-point for contact wouldn't be THE natural choice, so the dominance of agencies implies something deeper than just economy. I'm a bit out of touch with the present market, but an educated guess would be a psycho-social factor. FSUW, AT FIRST, seem to be eager to go west, but when it comes to the point, they often regret after being in close contact with western culture (by having a WM for boyfriend or living in the west some time). In my own life I've seen it happen again and again. The woman in question can be educated, intelligent, have a big theoretical knowledge of the west, but when it comes to the point, some fundamental western attitudes are just too much for them, when experienced in reality. So to take an example I'll mention the western superficial contact between individuals. We have let our crude, money-oriented society put a wedge between individuals, so other people are considered as dead 'things', we have communication-problems with.

    I'm not trying to make any 'noble savage' philosophy about people in FSU, pretending them to be filled with the 'solidarity of the poor', they are as greedy as any american status-seeking housewife, but as the only 'asset' an average person had in FSU was his/her personal talents and/or social network, they have carried the art of social communition to a fine point. A bit like what I was used to here before. We had a 'barter economy' based on favours given and taken at a practical level, and even bitter enemies would momentarily forget their disagreements in such situations.

    Such people know how to COMMUNICATE at a personal level, not being wiser, more noble or altruistic, but simply by having the PROCESS of communication instilled in them. Though without doubt they will forget in a generation or two, as they are turned slowly into consuming robots. So the FSUW still seeking net-dating would be the equalent of potential jet-setters (I know this is a coarse generalisation), the 'real' women being more reserved.

    On a personal note about western (lacking) talent for communication, I have on internet made the observation, that very few participants on forums actually communicate. Most are one-way soap-box orators, and what happened earlier on this forum and now on 'psychobabbling' is an exception rather than the rule: We communicate(d).

    I have the feeling, that a kind of (even fake) 'cool' attitude is now considered a sign of strength in western culture. "I am stronger than you are, because I can get better along alone without you, than you can without me". Such a theater would be counter-survival in FSU, where 'strength' was something you measured against life, not a mask you put on, and a person from FSU would look with contempt on anyone trying to do such.

    PeopleS; your idea of even a small majority of FSUW compared to FSUM leading to deep psychological consequences is almost certainly correct. I am from a place and a generation with a few percent more men than women. Being a teenager then meant, that you sought your partners from the almost exact same age-group, so I had some 'beeb' problems (not having developed the charming personality I have now). Those few percent meant an immense psychological advantage for the girls in the 'war of the sexes'. Later, when a 10-15 year age difference didn't mean so much (and with a surplus of girls in the almost next generation after mine), I never had any problems.

  4. #304
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    Hey swede! I really can't say that the US government is supporting the apparent paranoia of the Swedish ultra conservatives? As for inspiration, our government isn't looking for crazy Ivan any longer. Now, it's the hunt for middle eastern terrorists!!!

    European anti-American sentiments don't bother most Americans too terribly much. Honestly, our attitude is screw you, cause when the next Hitler comes along we'll just sit here and watch his armies roll through your countries like... um... the first Hitler did!!!

    Have you watched the movie "Team America... World Police" yet??? It's a satirical riot!!! It addresses some of these world perception issues.
    D!cks, @ssholes and pu$$ies.

    Pu$$ies don't like d!cks, because pu$$ies get f*cked by d!cks. But d!cks also f*ck @ssholes! There are @ssholes out there who want to sh!t all over everything! Pu$$ies think they can deal with @ssholes by talking. But, you see, sometimes pu$$ies get full of sh!t themselves, because pu$$ies are only an inch and a half from being @ssholes in the first place. And only a big d!ck with some balls can really f*ck an @sshole!!!!

    But, sometimes, d!cks f*ck without thinking about it first, or they f*ck too hard or when it isn't appropriate and we need the pu$$ies to remind us of this. Still, if d!cks aren't allowed to tear into that @sshole that really deserves it, we'll all end up covered in sh!t from some @sshole!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Wow!!! What a wild rant I just did!!!!!!!!!!!

    The only people here, the US, who care what Europeans think are people who travel and people who are thinkers. I'm a little of both, but I admit that I still carry a bit of that good old American arrogance with me.
    quote:Certain aspects of FSU mentality is something I've never been able to fathom completely.
    Surely, some of this mentality goes back to the days of the old empire, as well as the obvious SU period. It's hard for Americans, and I'm sure, most Europeans to relate to the years spent under Soviet domination.

    But now, with western influences, FSUWs are seeing new things and are turning from the old, but the men naturally want to keep the status quo since it strongly favored them.

    The disappearing "free" sites really has no influence on legitimate FSUWs since they don't pay to be on 99.9% of the pay sites anyway. You've admittedly been out of the loop. Pay sites generate their income from the WMs who buy "memberships" and pay for letter translations. FSUWs generally join free.
    quote:FSUW, AT FIRST, seem to be eager to go west, but when it comes to the point, they often regret after being in close contact with western culture
    And one more time, I will interject my feeling that the agencies and websites have waged this war of propaganda on both sides of the fence.

    To the WM... "Marry a beautiful FSUW half your age! She'll cook, clean, and engage in sexual gymnastics with you!!!"

    To the FSUW... "Marry a WM. Okay, he's old enough to be your dad, but he's got money, a swimming pool, and if you tell him you have a headache or you're having your period, he'll leave you alone and send you shopping with his credit card!"

    PROPAGANDA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



    Train returns

  5. #305

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    Peops,
    That the funniest F!ck'in thing I have ever read in my life!! Ha ha
    skipped

  6. #306
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    Cit PeopleS:

    "I really can't say that the US government is supporting the apparent paranoia of the Swedish ultra conservatives?"

    Not meant as criticism, it would be unreasonable for you to follow our local politics in detail, but US IS heavily involved in our present political crisis, both at intelligence and administration level. This is common, public knowledge here, presented by our authorities.

    Guess you can understand the local irritation by suddenly discovering, that US is part of activities, which are threatening our constitution. Sweden is after all not a banana republic or host for terrorist training centers on a big scale (on the small, I can't say, but that should be solved through other methods).

    So when a considerable part of swedes say: "Hands off", it's something which ought to be listened to, if US doesn't want to caught with its hand in the jam-jar. It would be a terrible loss of international reputation. This is 'beeb' Sweden, for 'beeb's' sake. The home of the political oh so righteous.

    In any case, my criticism isn't against any specific country or nation, my worries lie in the area of defending the principles of liberal, constitutional democracies against totalitarian tendencies. And this conflict can be seen more and more clear almost inside every nation. To postulate a drastic cutdown on democratic principles to defend democracy is nonsense. This way we in the end would have totalitarian systems defending democratic ideals.

    Sorry, haven't seen 'Team America...World Police', so I can't have any opinion on it. But I gather from your really refined language, that it must be a film with many subtle and elegant submeanings. Maybe as deep as the Rambo films, which so philosophically convincing and emotionally moving told the sheepwalkers what's up and down. Not being able to even slightly imagine what 'motherhood' would feel like, I can at least feel the taste of applepie in my mouth, when I look at them. But a short recension wouldn't be amiss, as I doubt my local DVD dealer has 'Team America .....' in store. Though I can get some Ren? Zellweger films.

    Cit:

    "The only people here, the US, who care what Europeans think are people who travel and people who are thinkers. I'm a little of both, but I admit that I still carry a bit of that good old American arrogance with me."

    Hah, my friend. At the present my european 'beeb' is bigger than your 'beeb'. In a few years the $ will share status with the grivna. But given that you after all come from a better genetic stock than many of your compatriots, you should be able to survive the following cultural shock better than most.

    Cit:

    "The disappearing "free" sites really has no influence on legitimate FSUWs since they don't pay to be on 99.9% of the pay sites anyway. You've admittedly been out of the loop. Pay sites generate their income from the WMs who buy "memberships" and pay for letter translations. FSUWs generally join free."

    Even if somewhat out of touch, I'm aware of that. The point would be, that there ought to be more WM on the free sites (as they are free), thereby enhancing the contact possibilities for FSUW through sheer number. That this is not the case is a puzzle for me. Even though some western countries now have put restrictions on dating-sites, it still would be possible to base such a site somewhere outside US or european legislation. The 'old' version of Matchdoctor had at its highpoint more than a million ads. That's a lot of potential ground for commercials income.

    Cit:

    "And one more time, I will interject my feeling that the agencies and websites have waged this war of propaganda on both sides of the fence."

    Two of my gals have never had their small hands on a computer before meeting me (and hardly after), but they still show all the signs of general FSUW behaviour in this direction. If you would include womens' magazines etc in the above, then maybe.... But that would leave the dating aspect out, at least on a commercial basis.





  7. #307
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    Hey swede! Not having read all the articles I found concerning the current "Big Brother" paranoia in Sweden, I can only comment on what I have taken time to read. The following being one article...

    http://www.robertamsterdam.com/2008/...ssias_inte.htm

    Honestly, I don't see the problem? The articles I read talk about a growing concern of Russian "hackers". Apparently, these hackers have been disrupting internet traffic throughout Europe. British intelligence, MI5, is also involved in this "counter cyber terrorism", so it's NOT just the US agencies.

    Maybe it's because we Americans are so use to our government "intelligence" agencies snooping around so much that it doesn't bother us so much anymore? Plus, we have so darned many "watchdog" groups, looking for government cover ups and conspiracies that the rest of us just figure someone will blow the whistle if things go too far.

    I really think that it's because your country is so new at this sort of thing that it bothers you more than it does the average American who has grown oblivious to such "minor" government created "inconveniences"???

    And personally, I think the US involvement in any of what's going on with Swedish politics and this internet monitoring situation is just someone's easy way of finding someone to blame for something they don't like.

    I mean, what is the US going to stop foreign aid to Sweden if your government doesn't do this? Does Sweden even get aid from the US? If you do, why? You guys seem to be in pretty good shape to me! Is the US going to not be Sweden's friend? So just how is the US influencing Sweden?

    swede, 'Team America' is available through Amazon. I really can't believe that I'm about to use it again, but...

    In the movie, after a terrorist attack blows up the Panama canal and they say it was in retaliation for being stopped in Cairo, Alec Baldwin, who is the head of the Film Actors Guild, or F.A.G. for short, goes on TV and makes this speech... "Who do we blame for the deaths? Do we blame the terrorists for the bombing? Do we blame the individual who supplied them with the W.M.D.s (Weapons of Mass Destruction)? No! We blame Team America!

    The US has become an easy target for so much of the worlds issues. Sure we're d!cks, and sometimes we go around f*cking when it isn't necessarily appropriate, but it's time for the rest of the world to start blaming the @ssholes for all the sh!t, not us!

    Oh, and may God, or the Great Spirit, or the Intelligent Designer bless you and have mercy on your immortal soul if Ren? Zellweger films
    are all you can get your hands on!!! You poor bastard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    quote:Hah, my friend. At the present my european 'beeb' is bigger than your 'beeb'. In a few years the $ will share status with the grivna. But given that you after all come from a better genetic stock than many of your compatriots, you should be able to survive the following cultural shock better than most.
    Actually, I think the USD has gained a few perentage points on the Euro since my trip to Lugansk? Besides, we've probably secretly stashed away more Euros at Fort Knox than are currently in circulation throughout half of western Europe![)]
    quote:Even if somewhat out of touch, I'm aware of that. The point would be, that there ought to be more WM on the free sites (as they are free), thereby enhancing the contact possibilities for FSUW through sheer number. That this is not the case is a puzzle for me.
    And again, the paysite and agency propaganda (which has some basis in fact???)... "Hey! WMs, all the girls on the 'free' websites are internet scammers! Your only safe bet to finding that beautiful, half your age, house cleaning, sexual acrobat, former commie hottie, is to sign up with us and pay for endless letter translations because we check out all the girls and make sure they are real and that they really want to marry a WM!!! Honest!!!!!!!!!!"[V]




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  8. #308
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    Hi PeopleS.

    Went to the link you created, and it seems to me, that this dutch guy has the same opinion of the swedish snoop law, as I have. That it's an infringement on civil rights.

    In any case this swedish law isn't meant to be used as a tool in cyber-wars. This is clearly stated. It's VERY vaguely outlined to be a protection against any outer threats to Sweden, but the actual lawtext can, when it comes to the point, be read as the devil reads the bible. Without missing a beat, it could just as well be used for registration of dissidents inside AND outside Sweden.

    And now to a point, you have touched upon a couple of times. The involvment of US (and naturally english) authorities. You touched upon the strength of civil rights groups in US. We haven't got anything like that here, and the 'resistance' is only now slowly gathering. I guess, that if snooping as described in the swedish law, was proposed in US, there would be all hell to pay. But the swedish government openly admit, that it intend to swap any information it picks up with other NATO intelligences. Considering that 80% of russian net-traffic passes through Sweden, it means that also US citizens having russian contacts (for whatever reasons) legally can be screened here, and the information later given to US intelligence.

    So US (and England) make Sweden do the dirty work, and can lean back with a clear conscience. "See, no hands. WE didn't do it".

    Another point in favour of US involvement was, that the Bush administration 'lent' their prime advisor on (net) communication to the swedish government, to help clean up the mess here. Our local politicians are probably even less aware of how internet-communication functions than I am (and that says a lot), and still live in some past era with illusions of the half-sovjet like control swedish authorities have of almost every single aspect of swedish citizens' lives. They simply couldn't handle the situation and panicked, when they discovered the extent of internal criticism. So uncle Sam gave a lending hand.

    Sorry that my interest in this situation is so extensive, but if you woke up one morning and discovered you were living in the political equalent of Alabama 50 years back, you probably also would be.

    I'm certain, that you and I could get well along as individuals, in spite of my occasional having to take bubble-baths prepared by the Olgas. The thought of being exposed to a mix of whipped cream, cheap perfume and champagne as an ablutionary measure, doesn't appeal to me; but nonethless..... As the man in the street (though not a sheepwalker in our case) mostly does; get along in a decent way. And the Olgas would probably be pacified, if I give them my two Ren?e Zellweger films. The Olgas sound like potential R.Z. fans.

    My objections isn't against 'defending' my way of living. It's against fighting small private wars between various powergroups, where I am exposed to smokescreens of 'national security' secrecy, disinformation, propaganda and manipulation. If I absolutely MUST take sides, even start thinking about killing other people in the name of good or bad guys, I want to have as much honesty and true information as possible.

    'My home (and my mind) is my castle'.

    Wherever there are troubled waters, there will also be 'Hitlers', no matter the political background or constitution. It will be very interesting to follow the situation in FSU in the future, and see how quick they will forget the sovjet system.

  9. #309
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    hey swede
    find a good drug supply.
    you need it [V]

  10. #310
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    Hey swede! I guess it's all matter of where you're from as far as "snoop" laws go. Yea, we're a bit more use to having someone try to tread on our liberties than you apparently are, and have developed some defenses against such things going too far.

    Okay, all this stuff is "protected" by our constitution, but it wasn't until the 1950s and Sen. Andrew McCarthy that the need for civil rights legislation became and what are basically "Big Brother" laws started happenning.

    Also, with the turmoil this country went through in the 60s, citizens began to take a more active role in politics, especially those who were less represented within the structure system of the government, by forming specialized groups.

    Various government "watchdog" groups have been around for decades here, just looking for the government to do something... anything slightly outside the hard lines. This watching ranges from free-speech to tree huggers to invasions of personal liberties.

    Maybe Sweden has gotten away with good, honest, clean livin' for too damn long? Welcome to the 'real' world of power mongers and slight of hand espionage![:0]

    Maybe... this is Sweden's wake up call for your complacency all these years? Similar to the wake up call we got from Sen. McCarthy 50 years ago?!? Hopefully, your country's citizens will respond in similar fashion as we did here and start demanding more government accountability? Things don't look so great in the US... Okay, imagine what it might be like without all these "watchdog" groups!!!!
    quote:Another point in favour of US involvement was, that the Bush administration 'lent' their prime advisor on (net) communication to the swedish government, to help clean up the mess here. Our local politicians are probably even less aware of how internet-communication functions than I am (and that says a lot), and still live in some past era with illusions of the half-sovjet like control swedish authorities have of almost every single aspect of swedish citizens' lives. They simply couldn't handle the situation and panicked, when they discovered the extent of internal criticism. So uncle Sam gave a lending hand.
    This part sounds to me like it's more of a case of, "Yes, there IS a problem, but we aren't exactly sure how to deal with it..." from the Swedish government. US and/or British intelligence may have planted the seed in the minds of Swedish officials, but it sounds like they then asked the US for help in dealing with the problem.

    Oops!!! US intelligence agency policy 101... try to take total control and only worry if someone complains! Thus the broadness of the law. It's up to someone to complain enough that it will be ammended. At least that's how it works here.

    And as I've said before, I personally don't worry too much about US survielence of internet traffic etc... since I don't think I have much to hide. I've got my three Olgas with their spectacular NERTS! (The feds don't have to know that I smuggled them into the country through my contacts with the Russian mob!) I've got a good job, although I suppliment my income by growing poppies and cocoa in a field off the AC Expressway, deal crack cocaine, but only on Tuesdays, and store enough weaponry in my apartment to occupy Paris. Okay, Paris is a bad example...
    quote:I'm certain, that you and I could get well along as individuals, in spite of my occasional having to take bubble-baths prepared by the Olgas. The thought of being exposed to a mix of whipped cream, cheap perfume and champagne as an ablutionary measure, doesn't appeal to me; but nonethless..... As the man in the street (though not a sheepwalker in our case) mostly does; get along in a decent way. And the Olgas would probably be pacified, if I give them my two Ren?e Zellweger films. The Olgas sound like potential R.Z. fans.
    I'm sure we'd have a blast hanging out! But, let's get a few things straight! My younger sister is distributions manager for Este Lauder cosmetics. My three Olgas DO NOT wear "cheap perfume"!!! (And their hoo-hoos smell like apples and
    cinnamon!) Well, once a month or so... As for movies, they seem to be big Mila Jovovich fans... go figure?


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