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Thread: psychobabbling

  1. #41
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    In my experience "wisdom" is quite specific. Take a christian mystic, a sufi, a red indian shaman, a tibetan lama, an indian yogi or an australian aborigine and they would probably be able to establish meaningful communication on common ground very quick. It's difficult to explain, but there's a special kind of "energy" you will recognise and respond to. (Sorry, I hate to speak in such terms. It makes it sound so cheap, but our language hasn't got the necessary concepts to do better).

    "Sharing" wisdom is a completely and naturally integrated part of the state.

    Hope I do not sound too pretentious. I still have a long way to go.

    I do not have a personal bad conscience about the idiocy about the way the "pink man's burden to enlighten the savage heathens" was demonstrated. I just feel bad about someone having been the victims of such.

    Cit:
    "I know what you're thinking, but we're talking third world poverty. Some of these people don't even have electricity!"

    I've never been to US, but I know about the big differences in standard existing there.

    When I moved to Sweden to my farm, I had the electricity disconnected (had to call the powercompany three times, before they believed me) as a small experiment in lifestyle-changing. Lived this way 14 years. But ofcourse it was voluntary, I always had the option to get electricity back (which I've done now), though the experience was there.

    Outsiders aren't recieved heartily anywhere in rural societies. That's alright with me. People need a chance to see, who you are. After 35 years here, I also take a good look at new neighbours (that is, anyone inside a couple of miles), before I let them in.


  2. #42
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    quote:Take a christian mystic, a sufi, a red indian shaman, a tibetan lama, an indian yogi or an australian aborigine and they would probably be able to establish meaningful communication on common ground very quick.
    Or you could take a Swede, an Italian and a Native American, put them together in an anti-scammers forum and you will find that like minded people will gravitate toward each other to form a place to exchange ideas and engage in an earnest communication as well.

    The people you mentioned all have a commonality, which is a generally peaceful and philosophical nature.

    We have found a similar commonality. We have the desire to be more than we are and are able to exchange thoughts with each other and make points and counterpoints without arrogance or the pretense that "what I say is right and everyone else should listen to me".

    It seems quite courageous in some respects to have chosen to disconnect your electric, and yes I will say, eccentric as well. Did you get what you wanted from the experience?

    Even the Amish of Pennsylvania have electricity and a few other "modern" conveniences. They would be the closest that I know of who voluntarily live such a simpistic life.

    The Native Americans that I spoke of don't live that way by choice for the most part. Believe it or not, there are still a number of "Indian Reservations" that were established by the US government in the 1800's that still exist. They're little more than shanty towns in the middle of nowhere. Out of sight, out of mind!

    Train returns

  3. #43
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    quote:A little history lesson for you guys... Here, "in the land of the free and the home of the brave", the freest and "greatest" nation in the world, the people who were native to this land did not receive the right to vote until 1925, and there are still some religious practices that are outlawed by the federal government, because they involve the use of paote or hallucinogenic mushrooms. Not that I am advocating drug use, but this was a religious practice observed for hundreds of years before Europeans found out the world wasn't as flat as they thought.
    another way to show how duplicitous post-WWII "inclusiveness" mentality is, is to ask why, if "difference" is to be celebrated and "otherness" is the blessed sign of Jeetz who luvd dem ol, why it hasn't become fashionable and hip and trendy to be Indian. It is fashionable to be African (CFR the various "100% Africa" movie/TV Spyke Lee-like niche ); it is even fashionable to be a serial killer, so that enlightened lefty whiteys can show you how compassionate and understanding they can be, but not Indian?

    Discovery of "native american heritage" by celebrities such as Chuck Norris & Val Kilmer is handled like an extravagance in poor taste; you see no "Indian history months", while say Spielberg's discovery of "Jewishness" is celebrated next to Marconi's invention of radio transmission [)]; not to mention the complete bunk "Roots" book (engineered narrative voided of much substance, aka "tell people what they expect to hear", http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0361-5413(1981)8%3C205%3AUKKOTP%3E2.0.CO%3B2-B
    ) etc are celebrated like the "objective truth" next to the stinking of feet [)].
    Why?
    Indians don't even make crime rate headlines...
    As far only two western government entered into peer agreement with Indians: the French and the Confederates (the last confederate general to surrender was in fact an Indian ), go figure.
    In Canada M?tis (french-indian) ruled Manitoba, but were exterminated by the same clowns that today say interracial things are cool.
    Why?
    Maybe because M?tis and indians were not anyone's sock puppets; I read about carpet baggers and Africans, but not about carpet baggers and Indians.
    Why?

  4. #44
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    quote:It's a bit of a social time warp within our culture! To speak of which, I've talked to people from the west and it might be said that if a guy has the means, camping out in Arizona, Wyoming or some other western US state could bring about the same result as what we all have searched for in the FSU. Although, some of the women are pretty harsh on the eye, some are quite beautiful.
    as said "traditional western women" still exist, but there is a price to pay, whether it is to profess a strict religion such a Mormonism, or to join an Indian tribe.
    Most men are unwilling to pay the price because -all things considered- all they want are very young beauty queens.
    I don't know about Indians, but I read a few things about Mormons...it is true they tend to marry young (much more than outsiders, that is ), but that offers a 5 years age gap maximum...
    My family on one side can be officially tracked back to year 1215, when the holy german emperor bestowed a title on them; on the other side a bit later, the family bought an entire county.
    My uncle still bears the name of the famous forefathers from 1215.

  5. #45
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    I find it useful to put things in a broader context, because we all have a tendency to form opinions based on our own background. Recently we have had a lot of talk about religion here, which I think hasn't been wasted time (though it on occasions has been rather specialised). Most cultures, subcultures or nations form their society/group on certain fundamental ideas, often from a specific religious ethic. You don't have to be religious as such to use this ethic code, it's just build into your society at a secular level.

    Many western countries have f.ex. christian morality as a base. Whether you like it or not, it's in your luggage.

    But I feel, that religion as a topic has now reached a point, where we will go outside general interest, if we continue (this is after all not a forum of comparative religion). So I suggest, we add new tracks (anybody still interested in religion, please don't feel rejected, write more about it. I for one feel for this subject, but I don't want my personal prefences to overshadow other subjects).

    This topic was started to create a place, where it is possible to post longer contributions.


    Unfortunately I'm not omniscient, so I have today elsewhere asked for information concerning the former very big "free" datingsites. What happened to them and why? Maybe some of you have information about this. I think, the subject is interesting, because it can bring some some valuable light on the mechanisms of cyber-dating. Say, when I four years ago looked at Matchdoctor, I made an approximation, that there were about 60.000 UAW on the then "free" site. Now there are 60. Talk about mass-migration. In my cyber-dating days, the FSUW were very well informed of the emergence of new free dating-sites, and would move in slow waves from one place to another in their thousands. Has this phenomenon stopped completely?

    Another interesting theme could be the collective psychology of FSUW. I've seen little serious discussion of this subject. I have personally found, that there exist some behavioural patterns common in FSUW. Patterns you usually don't see so pronounced in western women. In spite of FSUW's often good education, sense of humor, intelligence and interest in f.ex. art, they also have some less pleasant sides. Prominent amongst these is a lurking
    dissatisfaction. They are chronically slightly querulous, always having a feud or two going on with friends or family. They are suspicious, can't take or give (you give too little, you're stingy; you give too much, you try to buy them). If you get a mumbled " ...'nk ..'u", you'll have to settle for that.
    The words "please" or "sorry" seem to create the same problems. And then ofcourse the unrealistic ideas of materialistic expectations, and the way to get them fullfilled (but this has been discussed more at length from time to time).

    Anybody, please!

  6. #46
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    Cit. Peoples:

    "It seems quite courageous in some respects to have chosen to disconnect your electric, and yes I will say, eccentric as well. Did you get what you wanted from the experience?"

    I got a lot. A stronger body (doing things by hand takes a lot of sweating. How about cutting 5-6 cubic meters of firewood with a handsaw every fall).

    A healthy respect for natural resources. You don't waste, when things are difficult to replenish.

    Much knowledge about low-grade technology. Very interesting. Sometimes old-time methods are far, far superior to modern, if you look at the time, money and resources involved.

    A good look at my own psychology. It's a challenge with all these unknown problems turning up.

    And how to live celibate. Few women would accept such a life.

    And at a deeper level: A good insight in how nature functions. If you start with sentimental, romantic ideas about "going back to nature" as the big answer to life, you either have to change very quick or go back to the city. The later is what the bigger part of
    "the green wave" people did after a few years.


  7. #47
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    There are many things I can tell you about "my" people. I put this in quotes, because the generalization of Native Americans is similar to generalizing Europeans.

    The US victory in the Pacific in WWII was greatly aided by a group of Navaho who were known as "code talkers". Basically, all they did was speak Navaho and the Japanese couldn't figure it out. Standing orders were that should there be a risk of being captured, they were to kill themselves or someone else was to kill them to prevent the Japanese from learning the code. Their importance and existence has only recently been made public.

    Here's another interesting fact. Prior to 1924, these men and others like them were not even "officially" citizens of the US! My grandfather was 14 yo before he was officially recognized as a US citizen!!!

    At one point in the 80's it became chic to be part Indian. Cherokee is one of the better known tribes and so many people suddenly, overnight, became part Cherokee. I can honestly say that my maternal grandfather was Cherokee. I however consider myself to be Nantikoke which is a tribe from the Delaware water gap region and the bloodline of my father.

    Although, my Cherokee heritage may have something to do with my subconscious choices of women I have been involved with? In the 1600's many Swedes were known to have made settlements in the Virginia area which is Cherokee land. It's said there was alot of voluntary fraternization and even marriages and families started. Perhaps this is why I have long had a "thing" for the classic blonde haired, blue eyed scandanavian type?

    Native American issues aren't very popular with the US government and therefore are swept under the carpet as quickly and quietly as possible. What Hitler did to the Jews is a Sunday afternoon stroll in the park compared to what the US did, and there was no one to tell them it was wrong. From the Trail of Tears,(which was a death march from one reservation to another thousands of miles away in the middle of winter)to Wounded Knee,(a massive slaughter, mostly of women and children) to the US goverment providing typhoid infected blankets to keep the children warm, the word genocide comes to mind.

    Scalping was often depicted in movies as a brutality conjured up by the sick, heathenistic mind of the "savages", and it actually was. During a time when bounty hunters were being paid by the government and some private firms such as the railroads, to kill as many Indians as they could, proof of the kill was demanded for payment. Being to hard to drag the whole body back, taking the scalp became the method of choice as evidence that you had killed an Indian. My people simply picked up on this practice.
    quote:Maybe because M?tis and indians were not anyone's sock puppets; I read about carpet baggers and Africans, but not about carpet baggers and Indians.
    Indians were fighting for freedom in the land that was handed down to them by their fathers. The blacks, were captured and brought thousands of miles to a strange land with no way of ever getting home, which may account for the difference between our approach to the situation. Indians were still free and fighting a war for survival. Blacks were consider to generally be wild animals that could be broken and trained. Indians were looked at as wild animals who could not be broken and therefore had to be eliminated.

    Let's face it, with what I have ranted about here today,(and it's only a small part of the whole story) it's no wonder the US government considers Native Americans to still be a blackeye, and why they try to hide it! The greatest and freest nation in the world tried to exterminate the people who were native to this land. How do they say "I sorry" for that?


    Train returns

  8. #48
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    Cit PeopleS:

    "Let's face it, with what I have ranted about here today,(and it's only a small part of the whole story) it's no wonder the US government considers Native Americans to still be a blackeye, and why they try to hide it! The greatest and freest nation in the world tried to exterminate the people who were native to this land. How do they say "I sorry" for that?"

    While this is one of the more atrocious examples, as bad or worse
    than what Hitler, Mao and Stalin did, it is sadly a common phenomenon.

    Even small Denmark did something like this to the greenland eskimos, when Greenland was a danish colony.

    I think, that most races, nations or cultures some time in their history have done this.

    I'm not blind to the sufferings implied, and distance myself as much as possible from such behaviour, but I feel, that finding some kind of answers to lessen the tragedies in the future, is the most realistic way. As much as we would like to, we can't undo past horrors.

    As PeopleS here has done, giving information is a natural first step. I believe that communication between different cultures could possibly be the next, if it's done in a sensible way. But greed is always a factor to count with.




  9. #49
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    I agree that we may have wandered from the basic topic a bit, but as I have said, I find it so refreshing to exchange thoughts with you guys in such a non-judgemental way.

    I'm abit younger than you and ham, 44 yo, and have only been involved in FSU/MOB dating for less than a year, but I have unfortunately seen a lot in that relatively brief period of time.
    quote:Say, when I four years ago looked at Matchdoctor, I made an approximation, that there were about 60.000 UAW on the then "free" site. Now there are 60. Talk about mass-migration. In my cyber-dating days, the FSUW were very well informed of the emergence of new free dating-sites, and would move in slow waves from one place to another in their thousands. Has this phenomenon stopped completely?
    I think that FSU/MOB scamming in general has a lot to do with the lack of "real" women on the free sites. Now a days, it is widely thought that these sites are the first bastion of the scammer. It's free, so there's a wider profit margin. It's easy to place an ad, you or I could steal photos from the internet and place an ad on one of these sites in about 30 minutes, and have some shmuck sending a message within an hour. As a matter of fact, I'm going to do it when I finish this post.

    The real girls have been slowly coralled toward sites like Anastasia, Global and UA, because of the success story propoganda of the sites them selves. Why do the guys go to these sites? The same reasons, free sites are scam sites, but at UA we can show you letters from "real" men like you who have found their true love through us. It's your basic snowball rolling down the mountain. The guys are on the pay sites because the girls are on the pay sites, and the girls are on the pay sites because that's where the guys are.

    I found an interesting little thread I'd like to share. I posted it on the UA forum already. http://stop-scammers.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=919. I think it may help to explain a few things about the translating pay sites like UA and others.

    I would believe that some of the negatives displayed by FSUW's is in part from only recently finding a world outside of the Soviet shield. You may say that the younger girls wouldn't really remember what that was like, but it was only 17 years ago that Ukraine declared it's independence. A 25 yo girl would have been 8 yo then and very cognoscente of what was going on, if not in specifics, in a general way.

    As to their tendancies to take thing to one extreme or another, I still say it's a woman thing, regardless of their national origin. Perhaps the social climate of FSU countries exacerbates the issue, but I think the basis of it all stems from being a woman. Or, perhaps FSUW's are naturally bi-polar???

    Train returns

    PS Again, you have out clicked me! Touche!

  10. #50
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    quote:Scalping was often depicted in movies as a brutality conjured up by the sick, heathenistic mind of the "savages", and it actually was. During a time when bounty hunters were being paid by the government and some private firms such as the railroads, to kill as many Indians as they could, proof of the kill was demanded for payment. Being to hard to drag the whole body back, taking the scalp became the method of choice as evidence that you had killed an Indian. My people simply picked up on this practice.
    want to laugh?
    They used to do the same to French survivors in Acadia: killing them and scalping them under the cover of anti-indian laws (Indians were friends with the French anyways ). In 1755 the English rounded up all the Acadians (white French settlers ) they could find and "shipped" them to various destinations, to create confusion (France, Louisiana, Malvinas, Boston etc ).
    Too bad Steven Spielberg won't be filming a big budget extra-sad hollywood epic about how many of these ships never reached any shore, and what happened to their captive passengers.
    One Acadian (abb? Leloutre ) settled with the Indians and wrought havoc among the English for a long time; Acadians who escaped were chased like animals, lost their properties and saw their religion banned (serment d'all?geance ).
    Only in the 1960-70s did French get officially recognized (to a point, anyways ) and new Brunswick is the only bilingual Province in Canada (law 88 is now part of the Canadian constitutional corpus ); only in 1960 did an Acadian serve as NB Prime minister.
    Calls for mass reparations England should pay to Acadia, by Acadian leaders these last decades, were laughed off air as sheer nonsense.
    Billions keep raining over African interest groups of more (or rather less) adamant morals...

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