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Thread: psychobabbling

  1. #51
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    quote:As to their tendancies to take thing to one extreme or another, I still say it's a woman thing, regardless of their national origin. Perhaps the social climate of FSU countries exacerbates the issue, but I think the basis of it all stems from being a woman. Or, perhaps FSUW's are naturally bi-polar???
    when we talk about FSUWs, we ought to qualify our statement reflecting that we talk about CYBERFSUWs, that is FSUWs we meet online.
    I said many times I hold the WWW/LD dating scene in poor esteem.
    Maybe I'm just the-real-loser-who-can't-get-it-right, or maybe (as I think) the WWW/LD dating scene is like those "twilight" suspense/horror telepictures...

  2. #52
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    No ham, I think the question here really is about FSUW's as a whole, and not merely those we encounter in cyberspace. Is there really such a big difference between them and the women of our respective countries, or any non-FSU nation in general? Or is this something that truly is a product of the exposure of only a few of these women to the FSU/MOB world, and because these are the ones we "meet", this becomes our perception of them all?

    Or having read the post http://stop-scammers.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=919, is it something we now perceive as reality after so much exposure to the scam artists that plague the FSU/MOB world?

    It's an ineresting topic, considering the personal FSU/MOB experiences that each of us has had. I foresee three completely different veiws on this which will all make sense.

    Not having made the trip yet, my veiw is possibly slighted toward the more optimistic. I would like to believe that this is a misconception about FSUWs and that I won't find this at all to be the rule, but rather the exception.

    Train returns

  3. #53
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    Cit Peoples:

    "I think that FSU/MOB scamming in general has a lot to do with the lack of "real" women on the free sites. Now a days, tt is widely thought that these sites are the first bastion of the scammer."

    In my days it was also thought, that free sites were hatchingplaces of scammers, and this opinion was often put out on anti-scam forums. But this is quite contrary to my own experience. Of the hundreds of mails I recieved, max half a dozen were the obvious "My soulmate, I already loved you, before I knew of your existence. Please send money, so I can continue to pay for the rehabilitation of my criminally insane family". And the photos used by such scammers could actually be quite funny. One with an african girl, who had one hand demonstratively put far down inside her jeans, stating she lived in some african nation, but nonetheless having a signboard with swedish text in the background. Another from Russia, where the girl had forgotten to take off her weddingring on the photo (she being a shy little maiden and all, on her way to her first date ever. Me).

    There was a kind of small-scale dumb crookedness about it.

    But apart from these it wasn't actually so difficult to find real women. Of all those I decided to correspond with, I never got a suggestion (direct or indirect) to send money. Every single of my mails were answered adequately, obviously without translaters in most cases, because the english could be rather primitive, and then slowly get better the way you would expect, from someone learning it. Some of these contacts lasted a few years, and even contained small quibbles of personal character. I had a lot of telephonecontacts. So the above-mentioned theory, that free sites were worse, isn't correct. At least not for me. Besides it was very easy to have a suspected scammer removed on a free site. You just had to write and ask for it with very little documentation, and it would usually be done inside 24 hours.

    WHEREAS the paysites were fishy. Too glossy, and the women would show much more scam-characteristics. Assembly-line mails, forgetting when and who they were corresponding with, being irregular with answers and profiles giving idolized descriptions of themselves.

    Ofcourse I can't base any general idea from my own experiences alone, but considering how naive I really am, it's surprising, that I got away with only one real bad experience. My pro-dating UA "fianc?e". I even only lost app. $1000 in a three month period.

    How many of these real women, who would have turned out to be pro-daters, I don't know. I knew already then, that their main motive was a green card or equalent, but few of them tried to hide the fact. Some of them got married to a WM eventually, and would continue to send me the odd neutral mail, telling me details from their married life, asking how I was doing etc.

    Your "snowball-start-avalanche" could be correct, but I'm a bit doubtful. The grapevine telegraph is well developed in FSU, and the present general attack on scam-agencies should be common knowledge by now, scaring away the women.

    Well, I honestly don't know; but hope to get as much information as possible. So I'll just keep an open mind.




  4. #54
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    quote:In my days it was also thought, that free sites were hatchingplaces of scammers, and this opinion was often put out on anti-scam forums. But this is quite contrary to my own experience.
    But this substantiates what I had proposed, that the propoganda made it appear as though these sites were filled with scammers and not a place for "real" ladies to place their ads. So in turn, these girls went to the pay sites to post their ads and so the agency scams took hold as the status quo.

    Having a varied selection of bridal candidates to chose from, this naturally attracts the male clientele who, also force fed the free site/ scam site pill, ultimately foot the bills. Now I once again refer to the epiphany revealed in the link I previously posted here. Once an agency has a girl, real or otherwise, what the translator says goes. Here's a scenario that just popped into my head... "real" girl decides to leave the agency... "You can't leave, read the contract you signed. We'll throw you in jail... You can't leave, you may get raped and murdered... Okay, go, we'll list you as a scammer and you'll never find a man... Okay, leave, we "own" your photos and can do whatever we want with them..."

    ham has talked about the vast UA profile archive on several occasions. All of these profiles can't be fake can they? But they certainly aren't all real, at least not any longer.

    I think a large number of "real" girls had their profiles "stolen" by agencies over the years, some under duress. I also think that the big agencies may have a hand in spreading the dogma that free sites are scammer havens in order to scare men to go them.

    swede, you like conspiracy theories, chew on that one a while. I was going to say that I look forward to reading what your mind spits out, but we did agree there would be no spitting here!

    Train returns

  5. #55
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    Hi PeopleS,

    sorry I misunderstood you. I first believed, you meant that the free sites were described as scammer-infected by scammees. But your theory about the paysites miscrediting the free sites sounds very interesting. Not only because it appeals to my conspiracy-buff part, but also because it really does explain a lot of things, if it's correct.


    Having decided to become a benevolent misanthrope years ago, almost no amount of human repetitive stupidity ought to surprise me, but the background/origin for present scam-agency discussion I put on level with some of the recent US presidential elections.


    When I started my cyber-dating period, I knew absolutely nothing of the finer points of the art. My first nigerian "trillion-zillion dollars are yours, IF you..........", I simply didn't understand. I believed, it was a joke, or someone who'd forgotten his medication that day. My first few Lolitas I responded to with grandfatherly good advices, but the PAYSITES started warningsigns in me immediately. The similarity to toothpaste commercials were so big, that it should have scared anyone away. But then, there probably exist people who believe in toothpaste commercials also. I shiver just by the thought of it.


    "O, woe,... O, woe". Having a firewoodstove, I also have a supply of ash, which I will sprinkle over myself.


    Now I feel better.


    Considering the amount of money being spent on cyber-dating, it is reasonable to believe that no methods to further your own interests as site-owner are too corrupt. Being purely speculative now, it would be possible to imagine, that such business would follow the common pattern of big money. You make monopoles, cartels and buy competing companies. I'm beginning to understand Ham better now.


    Later we'll maybe even have the men in black around here to tell us to shut up (like some russians did with my friend, who tried to open an anti-scam site).


    Maybe it would be something for our cybergenius swazzie to look at. He seems to at home with stuff like that.


    Personally I wouldn't stand a chance to do research on this subject. As it is, I am at the limit of my technical ability, when I try to print out something. I'm quite sure, that my computer will bite me, first chance it gets.



  6. #56
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    quote:I'm beginning to understand Ham better now.
    ham often seems bitter, but he makes a lot of good points about a great many things. Something he has mentioned, and I have found supporting evidence, is the fact that so many FSU/MOB sites have ties to one another. UA is a part of a larger conglomerate, just like Anastasia, RBrides/ Site2Date, and so many other less talked about sites. So the monopoly theory has it's basis to be sure.

    In someways, FSU/MOB scamming is like the tobacco industry. It relies on new blood to keep the machine going. Tobacco needs fresh meat, because their older user have either quit, or died. Scammers need fresh meat because guys like us have become hard to fool, so it's the guy that's a newbie that is prime for the plucking. The problem is warning them. They have to look for sites like this, or stumble across it as I did.(Fortunately before I lost money.)

    One problem is that so many FSU/MOB sites have there own little scammers lists. Some are fairly well known scammers. Probably independents who refused to conform with the pay sites and their bureaucracy. Others may be "real" girls who were blacklisted by the pay sites for wishing to leave? Either way, having a blacklist does give the ilussion of legitimacy to the rest of the girls on the site, and the site in general by saying "See, we don't like scammers either." So now that they have your trust, it's time to rake in your money for unlimited correspondence.

    If you like conspiracies, try this one... Local governments, politicians and/or police are in on it and get their cut. Possible? Why is it so hard to prosecute?

    Think about the number of sites out there, and then think of how many guys are paying $29.95 (for a basic membership) to the guys buying endless unlimited correspondences. Millions are going into the FSU every day! I'm sure it's enough to buy a cop or a judge in Kherson or Lugansk.

    swazzie is like a pitbull. He snaps at every conspiracy theory out there with such enthusiasm! He may have a future as a cyber-cop!

    Train returns

  7. #57
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    Cit PeopleS:

    "If you like conspiracies, try this one... Local governments, politicians and/or police are in on it and get their cut. Possible? Why is it so hard to prosecute?"

    Aaaaa..... Again we seem be in cosmic accordance.

    There's absolutely nothing like information and/or disinformation, sometimes disguised as each other, to bring us onward to whatever reality, which may be floating around out there. It's like first drinking a pint of "Old Moonshine" best brand whisky, matured 20 minutes, and then go into a mirror cabinet, successively believing every single relexion you see of yourself. You come out on the other end either stone paranoid, or so wise, that people will pass to the other side of the street, when they see you coming.

    It's doubtful, if many of us reach perfect understanding, but it's my experience, that you can fill out the gaps with humour. Or at least making the effort to do so. That could be the reason why the FSU-culture has such a lot of humour in it. They are not short of gaps.

    If my own feeble experiments in humour isn't quite up to the mark, don't let it discourage you. There's always Jim Carrey to lean back on.

    When the old man made things as they are (not as they could or should have been), he was careful to make most of it into chinese boxes. E.g. finding correct answers isn't that difficult. It's asking the right questions.

    "Have you stopped beating your wife?"

    On our way to understanding we need lubrication. Booze, meditation, humour or other moderate escapist techniques can help. But drooling over photos of UA virtual brides is like trying to put out fire with gasolin.

    I'm out on trial, and they DID warn me about drinking coffee. Promise I will activate, what goes for my intellect, in my next post. If I have irritated anyone, please accept my apologies.



  8. #58
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    I have very little to add to this thread, other than to comment from my own personal experiences with FSU women from many countries, both as partners, friends of partners, acquaintances and friends from my travels and my Orthodox church.

    I haven't actively looked for anyone on-line because I can assure you that what most of the men here seek does not exist. FSU women are not better or worse than Western women. They seem different upon first encounter, but by the time the smoke clears you'll have a real pain in the ass on your hands that is no different that some chain smoking Lolita from your favorite watering hole or pub. You can save yourself a lot of time and money. FSU gals come with a lot of baggage, families, special needs, language barriers, unfamiliarity with Western customs, laws, and practices.

    What do I mean by that? You take it for granted that we've all watched the same Western media and read the same Western literature. We actually have a common cultural nomenclature that includes certain unspoken rules about social interractions, small talk, affection, and sexual attraction. These are a roadmap that the FSU/MOB has never seen and has little interest in learning. It's not that they are all argumentative, boorish, materialistic bitches, but that is how they are often perceived, because they don't understand the unspoken and unwritten rules of Western relationships.

    In case you wonder, I am not a "bitter lonely guy." I am in a highly frustrating, more than slightly dysfunctional relationship with a FSU woman. I love her and hate her at the same time. When it's good, it's great. When it's horrible, you don't want to know about it.

    If you accept it for what it is, you can probably endure what is required. If you go into it with false expectations or the mistaken belief that you can change this woman, you are in for a huge disappointment.

    I consider myself the flagman waving to warn of the approaching trainwreck. If you apply the brakes now, you may avoid derrailment. If not? Welcome to the club.

    Prometheus

  9. #59
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    quote: No ham, I think the question here really is about FSUW's as a whole, and not merely those we encounter in cyberspace. Is there really such a big difference between them and the women of our respective countries, or any non-FSU nation in general? Or is this something that truly is a product of the exposure of only a few of these women to the FSU/MOB world, and because these are the ones we "meet", this becomes our perception of them all?
    Yes, there is a [u]big difference.
    First, we are talking about a minute percentage of women who actually use dating sites; I mean women who -however for little time or at a time or another - were SINCERELY interested in SERIOUS relationships...SINCERELY-SERIOUS. The rest are (much as in the case of men ) novelty seekers, bored people wanting to kill time, and the wild bunch of braggarts, pretenders, clowns; next you get people with fraudulent intentions...good-time-girls, scammers, visa raiders, prostitutes and a fat share of hairy Igors.
    Mistaking this pool of people for "the female population of the FSU" is like mistaking some clown who claims online to be a millionaire, or to have won three oscars with people you see during a shopping trip at the mall.

    quote:I'm beginning to understand Ham better now.
    I am not the best and not the brightest; I am not a millionaire; I won no oscars and I am no world traveler, either, although I know what living abroad for extended stays is; I am an ordinary "headache gray" person with no praiseworthy looks, jobs, money or status...

    but

    I do my homework.
    I have "studied", if you call it that, this scene, read INS reports, FSU & US etc census pages, and more, and posted my findings on some forums.
    I think people should know the ground before jumping in head first.



  10. #60
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    Cit Prometheus:

    "I have very little to add to this thread, other than to comment from my own personal experiences with FSU women from many countries, both as partners, friends of partners, acquaintances and friends from my travels and my Orthodox church."

    This is probably the most valuable contribution, we can get here. Nothing compares to experience.

    "In case you wonder, I am not a "bitter lonely guy." I am in a highly frustrating, more than slightly dysfunctional relationship with a FSU woman. I love her and hate her at the same time. When it's good, it's great.

    Sounds like the average FSUW-involved relationship. Fortunately my dear wife and I live together only short periods at a time. Otherwise it would have been me, writing the above.


    " When it's horrible, you don't want to know about it."

    Truer words don't exist. But I guess PeopleS must have experienced something like this with his heroin ###**%& ex. The impressive thing about some FSUW is, that they can do this without heroin. But I don't want to scare you with details, many of you are still young and need some years with innocense.

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