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  1. #21
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    quote:Marx or Lenin never formulated "Believe in me! I am your godness now! We can make it!"
    A very true statement. Communism/socialism, as an ideal isn't the problem. My reference wasn't toward believing in one man, but believing in the ideology of cummunism/socialism. There is a big difference. And for this ideal to be effective within a world wide scale, all must believe in it and no single individual can take a role as the leader.
    quote:The Red Army changed big parts of the world by fighting and defending the USSR
    You absolutely can't be serious!!! Forced compliance, aggression and world dominance are about as far from the teachings of the two men previously talked about as you can get! The Red Army defended what??? The USSR's right to conquer smaller weaker nations and swallow them whole, forcing the people to become another unwilling cog in the failure of Stalinism? The only true threat of invasion to the USSR was from their communist bretheren in China! Which by the way was why good old Dick Nixon openned relations with the Chinese in the early 70s, to increase the threat and thus slow down Soviet forced expansion policies toward the west. Sorry Jens, but you really missed the mark.
    quote:What I meant with a chosen change is the possibility of using free will and a measure of selfdiscipline. Precisely as with learning anything else.
    But such a change would take time... a very long time, which to me sounds like evolution. As those with the expanded minds, capable of excepting such concepts as we have been discussing, begin to flurish, those with narrow minds begin to die off, and thus evolution occurs.

    By the way, my dad met the King and Queen of Sweden about 15 or 20 years ago when they were in the US. Nice people he said.

    Train returns

  2. #22

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    Well, Hello again All!

    Hummm, seem's I have struck a nerve regarding the state of Life and Fact's in America! Humm, Well I think I need to clarify the middle class issue although I think Peoplesmoks understand's allready!
    Firstly, the middle class in America is alittle unique! I see three seperate section's. Lower, Middle and Upper middle class! The brundt and majority of the Tax payer's in America are middle class and I think amount to a minimum of 60+% of people in America!! There for we are in fact the Back Bone of America because if you take us away this country is in Very Bad Trouble! Let's be real here, you think the Wealthy or Mega Wealthy here in America will pay all of the bill's if the middle class disappear's? Ohhh, Please let's not be Ignorant!!
    I also have to say that American's therefor America are Very Generous and Compassionate People and we have all Helped in numerous way's much less fortuante People all over this World, Far More than any other country so Please let's stay Honest and Understand the Realities of this World!! Believe me that American's DO NOT AGREE regarding the action's of our government and many are tired of the War's in Iraq and Afganistan however we are all Sick and Tired of being represented as Tyrant's and Oil Greedy Human's, this is Simply not True and is a Propaganda Machine created by America basher's!! Come on, can you say Dictator? Humm, let's see, can you say Chavez? Saddam? Noriega? The Shaw? The Marco's? Humm, I suppose it is also America's fault that Putin is the President in Russia "Ex Socialist"? Ex my tail section!![^]
    Do not misunderstand me now, I actualy Like Putin alittle but I feel he is too stubborn and unyielding sometimes!! Hey, let's also look at the fact's, Who was Truely an activist regarding the fall of the Berlin Wall? Simple answer here, President Reagan and Gorbachev!! I know I misspelled his name, I ask for Mr. Gorbachev for forgiveness and I have to admit I like him alot and he was Pro Russian People, Not the defunked Communist's!!!! I believe that Gorbachev was a Man of his People and not for a Failed and Totalitarian System!! Fact's are prior History, Communism does not work and although Democracy is not and has Never been perfect it is far better for the Majority of All People in this World!!
    I am certainly not perfect and I Never Will be but this Never stop's me from alway's striveing to be Better as a Man and as a Human Being also!! Well so much for Communism!!
    I have to also state a fact, many other countries want us there in the middle east! Humm, let's see, there is Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Oman, Yemen, UAE, Jordan, Kurtistan, to a extent Turkey, Egypt, Qatar, Pakistan, Afganistan and a few eastern European countries as Well, Ukraine, Czech Republic, Poland, Yugoslavia and more! Humm, Interesting I think!!
    I see America all over the World, even in the Phillipines fighting insurgent's there that have killed and Terrorized and Butchered Thousand's of Phillpino's over the past 40 year's!! Why you may ask? Simple, Religion!! However the religous causes are tainted by Fanatic's who clearly do not think as we Freedom Lover's think and also I believe they Hate us for our steadfast belief's that all Men are created equal!! Well, I think enough for now, again the Pandora's Box is now been opened!!!!

    Sincerely,

    Tone

  3. #23
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    Sep 2007
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    Hey Tone! I'll wave the Red, White and Blue from time to time myself, but some of the reality as you see it may be a bit blurred by the stars and stripes.
    Yes, there are some cases where the bleeding heart liberals have dragged us into third world economic "money pits", and now we would have a guilt trip for getting out, but most of the countries you mentioned only "want" us around for their own economic reasons, and we certainly have our own agendas.
    quote:Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Oman, Yemen, UAE
    We protect their oil and their wealth from guys like Saddam Hussein. They don't really like us. Jordan and Egypt want our favor in dealing with Isreal! Pakistan needs a referee with India! Afganistan... rebuild the infrastucture $$$$$! (Or actually build them one, since they never really had one to begin with.) We get oil!!!!

    You also refer to the Shaw, and Marcos. We can't forget that the US created these monsters... Saddam Hussein ring a bell??? The US helped him build his millitary because we were pissed at Iran after they toppled our puppet the Shaw. Oh, when we screw up, we do it as with anything we Americans do, way far over the top!!!

    Putin isn't that bad. He's what Russia needed at the time and maybe still does. I see him as almost Reagan-like in some ways. He seems to have somewhat restored a national pride to the Russian people. Yes, he slowed down reforms, but a glass of water can quench a man's thirst, shove him face down in a swimming pool and he drowns. "But I thought he looked thirsty?" See what I mean?

    Train returns

  4. #24

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    Peoplesmoks

    Yes I agree with you for the most part! However My Vision Really is not blured to much, I will explain! I have shared my belief's primarily based in fact however I errored due to over viewing my thought's! I Agree that our CIA installed numerous Men in power for our "Alledged" Interest's however thier short sightedness caught up to them! I think the removal of Saddam is and was our CIA's way of possibly saveing alittle face even though is was clearly short sightedness!! However there is far more going on in the Middle East than alot of us realise, Much, Much more!! I can clearly see by action's and Rhetoric that Iran want's to fill the power vaccum there, this to me is clear! The strange fact is that many Irainian's do not want a conflict with Us or any of our Allies, they are tome actualy a Honorable People and I Respect them just as I Respect most Iraqi's and many other Middle Eastern People!! True that other Middle Eastern countries Agree with our Intension's for thier self gain, as we do also! I am Very Sad to say that our country has become far to dependant on foreign oil and this need's to stop, not later but sooner!! Well, I Hope I am understood at least alittle better!!

    Sincerely,

    Tone

  5. #25
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    Sep 2007
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    Hey Tone, I'll let you in on something that was recently "leaked" regarding Hussein and WMDs. The CIA may not have completely screwed up as it is now believed. One of Hussein's attorneys recently reported that the WMD chess match with the US was a calculated risk taken by the now deceased dictator. The attorney said that Hussein honestly did not believe the US would attack as we did just because we thought he might have WMDs as long as his armies remained within Iraqi borders. Husseins reasoning for allowing the world to think he had such weapons was his fear that Iran would almost certainly attack if they knew he had no such weapons.
    quote:The strange fact is that many Irainian's do not want a conflict with Us or any of our Allies
    Who in their right mind would??? Our technology regarding "conventional" weapons is down right scary! My favorite examples are the F-15 and our nuke sub fleet. The F-15's basic design is almost 40 years old. Though rarely used and expensive as heck, to the best of my knowledge, this bird has never lost a fight. The Raptor has some big shoes to fill. The US hasn't lost a sub in some 40 years as well, and with cruise missiles onboard, they're simply deadly. Why anyone would want to take us on in a conventional fight is beyond me.

    Wars boil down to some assh@le's personal political ambitions and greed... except in the case of Muslim extremists. (It should be noted that 99% of all Muslims are good peaceful folk.) But anyone who takes a book like the Curan, which preaches peace, and uses it for a rally cry of hatred is just plain 'beep'ed in the head any way and should be stoned to death.[:0]

    Train returns

  6. #26

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    Ahh, Thank You Peoplesmok for your enlightening information!

    Hummmm, Ditto re the F-15, it is True a Nasty deterent!! I also agree that the Curan at times is Grossly and Tyranicly studied and I am so Very Sad to see Good People be subverted by Revolting Lie's and Twisted Perversion's of it!! I have a Theroy about God! Some may not believe in God but I have to say that if only the Devil exsist's God Help all of US! To me God can have many names, Jehova, Alla, Budda and so on but to me God is God!! I have no problem believeing in God because a few times in my Life I have experoenced some Pretty Miracules thing's, thing's I simply cannot explain, no matter how hard I have tried!! A few year's ago I became suddenly very ill, I could not catch my breath and my chest and arm's sometimes burned and tingled and I also had on and off cold sweats! Well, after 3 day's in the Hospital after I think every test known to mankind I needed open Heart Surgery! Wow, what a shock and alittle Terrifying! My Heart Specialist told me I was his Miricle patient because I should never have woken up that morning, I had severe blockages, 4 on my Heart and my main vien on the left of my neck! Well, the night befor my Surgery I Prayed, Humm, my Prayer though was of a different nature because I asked God to allow me to Live so I could feel the Warmth in my Heart of True Love!! Well, I think God was listening and had pitty on me! You see I have been searching for My Truest Love for more than 8 year's and sometimes it seemed Impossible I would finaly find Her, Humm, I Never thought She would actualy be Russian although I have alway's looked at the Russian People with Genuine Interest, Fascination and Sincere Respect!!
    I have alway's said that American's do not have a problem with the Russian People, it is our government's who seemingly Refuse to Play Nice in the Sandbox!!!! Humm, I think clear enough![^]

    regarding Saddam's arsenal of Mass Destructive Weapon's, I think he had them, we simply have not found them yet! I mean common everyone, Saddam was a Legend in his own mind and I also think he may have had a Tainted Triple Dose of God Syndrome!! I think he probably hid or destroyed the proof of his WMD's befor we had enough of his Wild Sabre Rattleing and Viel Threat's but also he was Killing Innocent People every day because they did not succumb to his Terrorizing and Tortureness Nature! I see it this way, we may have Sincerely Assisted him into Power but let's face the Fact's of Responsibility, we did not make nor force him to do all of the Goddless thing's he did dureing his Rule!! Saddam is Guilty of his own Maglomanic Deed's as are All Dictator's and War Monger's!!!! They make thier own daily decision's for thier own benefit and not thier People, Well Simply Said I think!! I think the old saying apply's, do not Shoot the Messenger!![V]
    Hummmm, enough for now I think.

    Sincerely,

    Tone

  7. #27
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    quote:regarding Saddam's arsenal of Mass Destructive Weapon's, I think he had them, we simply have not found them yet!
    His statement to his attorny is what it is, and very believeable in light of the context and circumstances. The fact that nothing has been found after a six year occupation of the country seems to support there non-existence.

    I also once believed that the WMDs were just well hidden, but what Hussein said about them being a bluff to prevent an Iranian invasion makes a lot of sense, since nothing has been found.

    Train returns

  8. #28

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    Well, guys,

    there has been researched a lot since 1989 to find out why countries like the GDR disappeared so simply. Communist historicians found out that the process of erosion started after Stalin's death just with Khrustshov and his "secret speech" which in reality was nothing else than an internal coup in the leadership of the CP of the USSR. Revisonists took the power over there!

    This had an impact on Poland and Hungary, especially. And much more it splitted the international community of socialist countries so much that the USSR and China became serious enemies. The scientific works of Kurt Gossweiler in Germany are very interesting to study these things.

    Another point, please check the history in total and not only in small parts. Check what happened with Soviet Russia until the peace agreement of Brest-Litovsk. After World War 2 Stalin took back to the USSR what Poland etc. robbed before, nothing else. For ex allied of the fascist Germans and their today again existing organizations in the Baltic countries and Poland and Ukraine this was an aggression by the Red Army ... well, Germany pays high age pensions to former SS people in these countries ... for me they are criminals of war and nothing else.

    Stalin was communist, so stalinism is nothing else than communism. Check the reaction in the USSR when Stalin died. This does not mean that he build up a paradise. But he managed to develop the underdeveloped Soviet Russia up to a World Power in political, economic, social and military aspects. There was a lot of idealism and trust in Stalin, but there was also a lot of struggle against him by bourgeois internal and external enemies. The Germans only could thank Stalin because he said "The Hitlers come and go but the German people stay".

    Gorbachov was a traitor. He destroyed the agriculture in the 70ies and 80ies and then he destroyed the USSR. Read his speech in Ankara at the American University in 1999, Gorbachov's target had always been to terminate with the 'communist' system and replace it by a bourgeoisy system. Nice to see the wall fall down ... but not nice to see millions of street children and prostitutes in the Eastern world as heritage of Gorbachov's rule. The Russians hate him and they know exactly why.

    Goddiejens

  9. #29
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    quote:Stalin was communist, so stalinism is nothing else than communism.
    Not in any way shape or form as prescribed by Lenin. Aggression and forced expansion wasn't what was behind the original thought of a communist/socialist lifestyle. There is nothing wrong with being a world power, but it how one uses that power that defines whether he is a great and noble leader or just a bully.

    Lenin certainly invisioned a socialist world, but not to have been acheived by such means. Stalin was in no question a strong leader of Russia and created the Soviet Union. He gave the people a sense of nation pride to be sure, but he was still a aggressive bully.

    Train returns

  10. #30

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    quote:The marxist-leninist parties have nothing to do with "beliefsystem" or religious sects. They are very dedicated to study the social reality and find a way to change the world so that not profit making but welfare of all people is the central value of the society. (Goddijens)
    From my own observations of history, the Marxist-Leninist parties are very dedicated to the complete domination of entire populations, by a handful of sociopaths who rise to the top of the party hierarchy. The sociopaths live in extraordinary luxury, surrounded by sycophants and concubines. And the masses under their iron-fist live in near-poverty.


    Having offered MHO, I cannot offer any insight as to how to stop the slave trade. I guess it needs the same as other violent crimes:- strong sanctions (perhaps the death penalty), community repulsion and awareness, as well as the awareness and vigilance of potential victims.

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