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  1. #31


    Seajay, Hi!

    Humm, Well said, Well said! I have to Agree re Communism in it's various form's! More to follow I think!!



  2. #32
    Join Date
    Sep 2007


    Hey guys! I think I really need to clear up some misconceptions you have regarding Marx, Lenin, communism, Stalin and Stalinism.
    quote:From my own observations of history, the Marxist-Leninist parties are very dedicated to the complete domination of entire populations, by a handful of sociopaths who rise to the top of the party hierarchy. The live in extraordinary luxury, surrounded by sycophants and concubines. And the masses under their iron-fist live in near-poverty.
    Anyone can call themselves anything they want. That in itself doesn't make them who or what they say they are. Neither Marx nor Lenin presribed the type of world conquest using military might that Stalin used. Communism is basically everyone works, and shares everything equally. So you really shouldn't down the ideology just because a few "sociopaths" told you and the world that they represented an ideology that was in fact diametrically opposed to what was being done.

    Again, I use the Muslim example. Muhammed preached peace etc, similar to Christ. So does Osama Bin Lauden and his perception of Islam now represent the true religion? Is Islam evil just because of one man and his followers?

    No. Just as Stalin does not represent what communism/socialism is all about.
    quote:Having offered MHO, I cannot offer any insight as to how to stop the slave trade. I guess it needs the same as other violent crimes:- strong sanctions (perhaps the death penalty), community repulsion and awareness, as well as the awareness and vigilance of potential victims.
    Like anything that involves $$$$$$, it's simple supply and demand. Sometimes you need to look at those buying the girls just as hard as those selling them. Like the slave trade in the US, it was gone after it was illegalized. The big problem is that many countries where there is a demand, have no laws, or very lenient laws at best against the buyers.

    The other problem is that such crimes are often commited against the politically unrepresented, and so no one with the power to do anything about it really cares. Sad but true.[V]

    Train returns

  3. #33


    quote:Originally posted by PeopleSmoks

    quote:Stalin was communist, so stalinism is nothing else than communism.
    Not in any way shape or form as prescribed by Lenin. Aggression and forced expansion wasn't what was behind the original thought of a communist/socialist lifestyle. There is nothing wrong with being a world power, but it how one uses that power that defines whether he is a great and noble leader or just a bully.

    Lenin certainly invisioned a socialist world, but not to have been acheived by such means. Stalin was in no question a strong leader of Russia and created the Soviet Union. He gave the people a sense of nation pride to be sure, but he was still a aggressive bully.

    Train returns
    Sorry, PeopleSmoks,

    this is not true! Stalin did the very best to continue in the political way of Lenin. The collectivization based on Lenin's principles but was blocked violently by counter-revolutionary elements so that Stalin hesitated first ... and this made possible that a certain number of communist activists were killed ... and after these murders Stalin took also very violent measures against the "kulaks" and forced the rural people with pressure to organise the agriculture in collective farms (cooperatives/kolkhozes) and state companies (sowchozes) ... "kulaks" (big farmers) were forced to build up industrial bases in Siberia and "re-educated" in work camps. Most of the "kulaks" were set free after some years and started a new and not bad life in well-paid jobs as miners or petrol workers there in Siberia, there was also a smaller number which did not survive the hard conditions in those camps.

    But the "gulag" picture painted with pleasure and purpose by Western agencies does not at all fit to the reality. When Stalin died the people in the USSR were deeply in trouble and expressed that. Have you ever seen the reports from the USSR recorded in those days?

    Lenin did not stop the red guards plundering castles and palaces. Stalin ordered East German communists to stop the liquidation of castles and respect the historical heritage of the German people. Stalin allowed 3 days of plunder and violation and victory celebrations of the Soviet Army in their occupied part of Germany. I know the example of one small town where the Russian soldiers violated German women living in one area there every night during several weeks in 1945 so that more than 30 women did suicides in only one night ... the military secret service investigated this case within the military camp in this town ... some days later all people were ordered to be on the market place of that town and the commander ordered there to execute some Russian soldiers in front of the army troops and the population because of crimes against the German women ... so what else army has done such kind of sentence against the own criminals of war?

    I know that in the West all officials like to paint the picture of the bloody dictator Stalin. They never tell us how much Stalin was honoured by the own people, how the Soviet soldiers shouted his name whenever they attacked the fascists aggressors, how much attempts had happened to kill Stalin, how much traitors were around him... . They try to put Stalin and Hitler on the same level!

    The reason is clear: How to forgive him that he almost broke down the leadership of the imperialism in our world...!!!


  4. #34
    Join Date
    Sep 2007


    Comparing Lenin and the Bolshevik Revolution to Stalin and his expansionist policy may have sounded good when those voices told it to you, but please read, and learn the difference. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

    Train returns

  5. #35


    Hi PeopleSmoks,

    I prefer primary sources:

    - Karl Marx, Manifest of the Communist Party
    - V. I. Lenin, State and Revolution
    - Michael Sayers, Albert E. Kahn
    Die gro?e Verschw?rung ("The big conspiration")
    Darstellung des antikommunistischen Kampfes 1919-1945
    ("Overview of the anticommunist struggle 1919-1945")
    based on Stalin's works

    Best regards,

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Dec 2007


    Cit. Jens 17/2:

    "I want to stop here to discuss more in this political way with you. We have different opinions, otherwise it would be boring. I respect your position and hopefully you do not damn me in person that I have my one."

    The 18.th you're back in full force again, thereby demonstrating your personal inconsequences and as usual putting out nothing but propaganda clich?es.

    I certainly trust my own, firsthand experiences from contact with people and culture in FSU better than one-eyed fanatism.There must be a strong reason, why communism (in its stalinistic form) is so intensively hated amongst all the indigenous groups living in the area.

    And yes, I've seen these terrible, anti-revolutionary capitalists amongst farmers. My first polish wife owned a 3 acre farm (which is as farms go, very small), which she and her family made into a modelfarm with a lot of hard work. And I saw the neighbouring farm co-operative being run in a disgraceful way. But ofcourse my wife was a cigarsmoking capitalist and exploited her negroslaves, while the poor incompetent partyfunctional leading the co-operative was a victim of some western complot.

    Two of my longer-lasting relationships with women from the east have been with highly educated and intelligent women, who both were convinced communists, though not stalinists. I never had any problems communicating with them, could respect their points-of-view and also partly agree to some of it. They were both very, very negative to the SU invasion of their country. They saw it as invasion, as the stalinist regime actually wasn't anything but russian empirialism.

    "but not nice to see millions of street children and prostitutes in ...................."

    And you say, prostitution didn't exist in the SU period also? I can tell you, that a lot of people going there in that time had different experiences. You could have a girl for some food, cigarettes or "luxury" articles (like f.ex. some good clothes). But I'm convinced, that you as usual have some very good explanations for this.

    "The collectivization based on Lenin's principles but was blocked violently by counter-revolutionary elements so that Stalin hesitated first ... "

    Sure, the standard justification: "HE started it".

    What I find significant in all your writings is the omission of ordinary peoples right to decide their own life. Come out in the open and admit your fascination for total power. You just LIKE power, in its raw form. Isn't that it?

    And you have yet to show examples of the validity of your fundamentalist ideas. This is the third or fourth time I ask, but I guess, it's a very inconvenient question. Or maybe your philosophy doesn't need demonstable, pragmatic facts to be proven. That's often the case with fanatics.

  7. #37


    Hi All!
    I think I have to Agree with Swede and this subject! Ithink that sometimes heated discussion's take play due to Personal Ideal's rather then fact's and of course fact's change as time passes and as new Truth's or Information become available!! Availability, Humm, My Lady in Russia recently stated She remembered there were a few item's recently that were hard to find on store shelves like befor the SU fell, Well She felt it reminded her of how recently thing's used to be such as standing in line for up to or exceeding 8 hour's in freezeing temperatures for bread or milk and especialy meat!! Humm, I Wonder how hard thing's were re the dinner table's for the Party Elitest's?? Not Very Bad I think! The Truth due to actual Documentaries from foreign new's services and Very Brave People in thier onw countries and reporter's that have been known for many year's now!! No Secret's or Surprises on this subject!!
    Well, I think no polictical system is perfect and I know due to Historical Fact's that NO Religious system is perfect for Sure!!!!
    Humm, Well for now I will wait for the rebuttal's! Hehe, this should be Interesting!! I Wish all the Best and stay Safe and Well, No Matter what your religion or country!!!!
    Well, I have deposited here alittle to genuflect on!



  8. #38


    Hi Swede,

    is prostitution just that you can have a girl? Or that there are girls you can have easy? Or that a girl "serves" you for a special gift or whatever? Then most of the relation in this word started as prostitution ... absurd to share such a definition of "prostitution".

    For me, prostitution means to use other people so that these other people serve as sexual objects paid by certain clients and the pimp makes money with it. This is prostitution. (The pimp can also be a 17 y/o girl in Manila selling 7-15 y/o girls to pedofiles from wherever... .)

    In the USSR there were no structures of such prostitution accepted. You could not find pimps there, girls did not prostitute themselves because of poverty like they do it in Manila... .

    But well ... in all the world you find "easy going girls" ... you find them also in USA, Canada, West Europe and Australia ... give teenagers some kind of drugs and you find an easy going girl fast ... .

    Last not least: I went to stop this discussion. But it is not stopped so that of course I react.


  9. #39
    Join Date
    Dec 2007


    Hi Tone,

    when I first time visited Poland about 1990, the bakeries were usually out of bread 11 o'clock morning. And that in the middle of a farmingarea.

    A lot of other daily needs in this area (fundamentally being a down-to-earth part of Poland, peopled by farmers, craftsmen and industrial workers) like nails, farming-spareparts etc. you could wait weeks, if not months to get. The locally produced Fiat model had a waiting list of 14 YEARS.

    "Luxury"articles like imported perfume, food or booze, were on the other hand easy to get. If you could pay with foreign currency. Considering that the area I visited had next to no tourists, the only people having foreign currency were ofcourse the local political bosses. Some people were indeed more equal than others.


    as to the definiton of prostitution is seems very uncomplicated. It's
    a situation where one part pays the other in cash, privileges or goods for sexual services. Without any other implications. This can be done on a private enterpriser level, or as part of an organisation's activities. Both privately and organised it's prostitution.

    In any case, if this is a situation between consenting, responsible adults, it's not your (or my) business. Stop playing god.

    That children (or anybody else for that sake) were especially protected against such in FSU is not true. I have a first-hand description from UA, where a woman started her sexual career as a nine year old, without anybody in her family or surroundings raising an outcry about this, though they knew. And this was a standard FSU family, not with some alcoholic parent involved.

  10. #40


    Hi Swede and Jens

    I think I have to agree with Swede on this subject! Re prostituion, I think we all see this in every country in this World, simply not a few countries!! Sometimes when Women and children have no other way to support themselves they resort to prostituion, they have no other choices!! I believe many prostitutes do not Wish to do this for a liveing but many are forced to due to economic condition's and being forced to by other's or another! It is said that prostituion is the oldest trade in the World, Well this may very Well be True but all of us decent people "Especialy Men" should not continue to patronize this profession because without the need for it the trade would dissolve!!!! It Never ceases to Amaze me the reason's Men continue to support this trade, Hummmm, most reason's are so Selfish and Ridiculous I feel it is a waste of Time to even listen to them, Truely!!!! Well enough said for now from me!




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