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07-31-2004, 04:24 PM #1imported_admin Guest
Poor and rich people exist everywhere
It was a posting (read below) of Southamerican in "Travelling to woman's country" forum. After we have read it, we decided to make a new forum "How poor are really people in Russia?". We think that it must be very interesting discussion for our visitors. Thank's to Southamerican for a good idea.
Posted - Jul 31 2004 : 10:46:59
Hello all the guys in the forum
Maybe this post does not exactly matches the topic you're discussing but it was something that came to my mind after I read Ray's post about a girl in Russia who seemed to have many things (and who was considered suspicious for these)
How poor are really people in Russia? Is it true that almost all people in Russia have very low salaries ($200 or less a month) and that they cannot afford a trip abroad or a stereo or have a credit card?
My country Argentina (as well as all most other countries in South America) is considered poor by American and Europeans. We don't have the technology of the Russians nor did we ever had a spacecraft sent to the space, but still many young single women here have new cars, stereos, cell phones, credit cards, big houses or nice apartments and have visited some foreign countries (some because they are successful in their jobs and some others because of a wealthy family). And still some of these "wealthy" ladies want to marry an American or a European man... Ok...It's true that the majority of our population don't have those things but there exist poor and rich people everywhere... even in the USA and Europe right?
Now I really wonder... how can possibly all Russian girls be so poor... if their country is much more developed and "important" than mine? Well I'm also looking for a Russian girl...but I'm really concerned about this... Aren't there wealthy young single ladies in Russia? How can a country that was so powerful in the past have all their citizens living in poverty?
07-31-2004, 07:03 PM #2Member
- Join Date
- Jul 2004
This is a vast, complex issue. In my opinion not quite suitable in a forum as this, because of it's complexity. It contains a variety of political questions of different levels as well as plainly about traditions and human behavior.
In short, and basically:
First of all, Russia is neither politically or geographically as USSR, so don't mix them up. USSR launched MIR, Russia didn't.
To relocate overseas s a BIG step to make, people tend to do it just for:
Tax reasons if their wealth REALLY have grown.
Or out of poverty.
A few of us humans make it as a career move.
We humans tend to think "the grass is greener on the other side".
Add in some male vodka abuse, and figure out for your self, and select what is the most applicable reason for today's Russian women, to be on dating sites.
The industrious ones may think; Stay, and let the money come to you, couldn't they????
But there are so many, many views left in this topic......
- We have, but of course, poor people in western Europe too.
08-01-2004, 11:08 AM #3Junior Member
- Join Date
- Jul 2004
Russian women usually say they want to leave their countries because they can't find suitable men there. They say Russian men are unpolite and treat them as sexual objects... Do you think this could really be the reason why they want to marry a foreigner?
It's true that some girls want to marry a foreigner because they think that they have more money than local men. But I dont think this is the only reason why some people want to relocate. For example many Argentinian women think that we, latin men, are too sexist because we don't like to cook, wash the dishes, clean the house or help with the babies... as supposedly you Western Europe and American men do (Do you really help so?) and that's a reason why many latin women want to marry foreigners too. Also we,latin men, dont usually like divorced women with children and I suppose men in rich countries dont matter so much about this...
Now it's true that sometimes women think that they may be better in rich countries because they hear that any clerical worker can easyly make more than $2000 or $2500 a month, but the truth is that $2500 in Western Europe buy the same things $500 can buy in Latin America.
In my country (Argentina) $200 can buy a lot more than in the USA or Europe. I have been in New York and London and I could easily spend more than $ 200 in a single day (hotel + taxi + restaurant)... but in less developed countries, services are not that expensive. Just to give an example you can rent a small apartment in a working class neighborhood for $100 and easily you can eat for a month with the other $100. So I wonder... can't it be the same in Russia?
So let's say a salary of $1000 buys you a good lifestyle here (nice apartment, car, good food, good clothes) but if you don't know about prices in my country you could think that a girl with a $1000 salary is poor... because surely a girl in Western Europe with that salary would be below poverty line.
But the question is... Is it that hard for a Russian girl to afford nice clothes, a basic computer and eventually one trip abroad with, let's say a $400 salary, specially if she still lives with her parents?. Any young Argentinian girl with a salary of $400 and who lives with her parents (and most do!) could easily afford clothes, computer, cable tv and an eventual trip overseas (if she's wise enough to save half or her salary every month)... Well I don't know Russia but I wonder if it could be the same there... So should we be suspicious if a Russian woman says she has her own computer or has traveled abroad?
08-01-2004, 10:43 PM #4Member
- Join Date
- Jul 2004
The question/s about possible savings and so on, isn't valid until one could correctly estimate pressure of taxes and everyday living expenses.
Nobody has the right to be suspicious about any tokens of living standard. The behavior solely divides the scammer from the "real" woman, is my opinion.
08-03-2004, 01:56 AM #5n/a Guest
Having read the latest topic,it`s difficult to believe that one person(southamerican)can think so little of another persons country without witnessing it first hand,just because these things don`t happen in his own country.
It`s true,many of these young women are on very low wages and many of them still live with there parents.Most of them are very highly educated,but still they can`t get work in the field that they studied for,because it`s still very much male orgintated.
It`s only the major cities of Russia and the Ukraine that have the technology for the internet and computors and it is very expensive!even using the internet cafes can take alot of money.
l`ve witness first hand how the rich treat the lower paid worker in Russia and the Ukraine and it`s not very pleasant to see.
Also remember,that it wasnt the Russian people that put a rocket into space,it was the government of that time and the people did suffer for that so called,Space Race!
This women are brought up with very strong family values,they believe in the home looking after there children and looking good for there man.Not ever women from these countries want to leave,there are very happy with there lives.
Please give these young ladies a chance,don`t start judging them before you meet them.They are very polite,warm and very loving.
Keep an open mind,don`t judge there country against yours,because no matter what country we come from,there is good and bad things that we all don`t like about our own.
08-03-2004, 02:50 PM #6Junior Member
- Join Date
- Jul 2004
It was not my intention to judge Russian women. I think "pasadena" didnt undertand my point. What I wanted to do by writing this post is letting you (people who live in rich countries) know what the reality is in the so called "third world". Moreover my intention was to say that we must not necessarily be suspicious of Russian woman because they have a computer or any other thing... But when I wrote my first post I did it in another forum and it was in reply to an Italian man who had written that he thought that a woman could be a scammer because she had computer, stereo and had traveled abroad. But then the administrator decided to create a forum with my post...
It's true that I dont know Russia... but I do know many poor or "third world" countries as well as many rich countries too, and
when I have been in rich countries I have usually found that people there have a mistaken idea of the life in our countries... Many people usually think that everybody is poor and that everybody is crazy to relocate in a rich nation... And that's not true. And I do believe when someone says that Russian women dont want to leave their countries.
Now I must also say that the girl I am writing to, told me that she had recently visited a couple of countries in Western Europe, and I must confess that this sole fact made me feel very suspicious about her... because I know some countries in Western Europe and I know how expensive it may be to spend a night in a hotel or pay for a meal... but then I realized that in my country which is poor, also there are young single women who have been to Europe... and I said to myself... maybe that's her case. However after reading so many articles about Russian women I am very confused, because according to those articles it seems to be that all Russian women who look for a man abroad are poor.
Now the question is... Are there middle class or wealthy young russian ladies? If yes, do these wealthy russian ladies want to find a man abroad? I hope someone in the forum, someone who has visited Russia can give me a answer.
However the girl who is writing me has sent me a letter in which she says that she wants to meet me "as soon as posible" and this is something that has made me feel extremely suspicious because we've been emailing for a little more than a month... so I'm just waiting for the moment in which she ask me for money... a moment in which I'll ask her "and how did you pay for your trip to western Europe?"... or maybe... I'll be lucky to have found a wealthy Russian lady who will come to me with her own money... but I am almost sure that given the situation (just a few weeks of emails)this will be harder than a miracle.
08-03-2004, 09:45 PM #7n/a Guest
Firstly,if l miss understood your main letter,then please except my apologies.
l have lived and worked in Russia and the Ukraine on and off since 1992 and even though l`m now based in the UK,l still make regular trips to these two wonderful countries.
There are wealthy women looking for men from other countries and it`s true they do have access to overseas holidays,fancy clothes etc,mainly because this is due to them owing there own bussiness.
Many of the young ladies that you may come into contact with are students and many have had the chance to travel to another country mainly as exchange students.
Unless they come from a wealthy family or have been an exchange student,it`s very unlikely that these girls have ever travelled outside of there own country,due to the high cost.
Some,would rather meet sooner rather than later and it`s very normal for them to invite you to there country where they feel safe and surrounded by family and friends,instead of them coming to you.This also helps them to decided how serious you really are about meeting them.
If your unsure about some of her emails ask her the questions that you feel need answering,if she`s genuine then she will give an honest answer.Remember,no self respecting young lady from Russia or the Ukraine will ask you for money or any other kind of help!If they need help they will ask there families.
l hope this helps.
08-28-2004, 09:12 AM #8Guest
We need to respect these wonderful, pretty russian women. Men with or without money respect these women and this great country that is the Russia. They deserve all money of the world for them to want to marry. Women do not think today about marriage , however the pretty russian women think about constructing her homes. The true man will go for Russia and there with certainty he will find the true love. Men do not need to send money but if sent, do not make these types of commentaries on these wonderful women when to fall in these blows, therefore could be gang that is applying these blows. I ask for excuses for not knowing English. Ricardo from Brazil.
10-09-2004, 01:32 AM #9Junior Member
- Join Date
- May 2004
I doubt that "SouthAmerican" would ever have the opportunity to meet, say, a Belarussian girl earning 1000$ per month -- such a girl would be rich on Belarussian standards; were she from a provincial city like Mogilev rather than the capital Minsk, she would live especially well. Such a girl would not advertise on the internet for a husband and she would not be willing to emigrate.
"SouthAmerican" is a little imprecise. He ought to be speaking of the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS) which consists of 11 of the 15 former Soviet Socialist Republics of the ex-USSR excluding: the Baltic States (Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania) and Georgia. The CIS is a bit of a misnomer as the "wealth" is not "common" ie evenly distributed with only some few Russian localities, preeminently Moscow, boasting a fairly vibrant economy. [Moscow is ranked as one of the most expensive cities in the world -- well ahead of New York and London.] In general, the more peripheral from Moscow, the greater the poverty* -- take for instance Central Asia...
I happen to have met an Uzbek woman whose principal trait was pride.
I ask her "Why are you so proud?
She answers because "I'm from the former USSR."
"Haven't you heard," I retort, " the USSR collapsed well over ten years ago? Why do you insist on living in the past?"
She snaps back, "My uncle was #5 in the KGB in Uzbekistan, the members of my family enjoyed high salaries denominated in roubles at a time when 2$=1 rouble, we owned our own cars when ownership of cars was a rarity, we enjoyed free healthcare, free education. The great United States was awed by our military might. DO YOU THINK IF THE SOVIET UNION STILL SURVIVED I'D BE GOING ON THE INTERNET LOOKING FOR A WESTERN MAN??? Frankly, I don't even like Americans!"
A lean existance prevails on the streets of Chilonzar in Tashkent, Uzbekistan. The standard of living has declined there since Soviet times. This has been generally true of the non-Russian CIS country members.
However, it doesn't mean that girls are lining up in droves to leave their countries. Actually, in Ukraine, one can detect even a societal stigma being attached to girls marrying foreigners with a view to emigration unless either it is a very "good" marriage, particularly from the financial perspective of the bride's family, or the girl's family is really destitute ie the girl has a choice between marriage or prostitution abroad. (Those one month trip's to Dubai leave very little room for doubt.)
Which raises another issue of how to react when you find out that your girl has travelled abroad ie outside the borders of the former USSR. Relevant questions are: Where? With whom? How? and With whose money? If your girl travelled by bus to visit Transylvania, Romania, and complained about not meeting Dracula, you have no worries. If your girl travelled with her family to Spain, with the intent to look for the lost Gardens of Andalus, and stayed at a three star hotel for a week, have no fear. But if your girl travelled to Italy and the UK recently (actual example see below) someone had to have sponsored her ie she was living with a man indulging in a kind of sex tourism. A few girls seek out to travel by this vehicle - they meet someone one time, they persuade a man to sponsor them, and they get to see a country they otherwise wouldn't see. Okay, you ask, how about an actual example? Try Natasha Sok Naty23 on -- yes, you guessed it -- our "favorite" www.absoluteagency.com A4569557 email: firstname.lastname@example.org who admitted to me that the Italian in question was 40 and the Brit just 22 -- a disparity which makes no sense unless age is irrelevant for the objectives of this 23-year-old Belarussian. I'd say she is well on her way to cover all of Western Central and Southern Europe before the age of 27!
In another incarnation of sex tourism, a girl who is not working or working as a salesgirl cannot afford to fly and stay at a resort even just for a week in countries like Turkey or Egypt: her family will not fund her trip if it is not a family outing. It means a foreign man paid her way and she is meeting him there: third-country tryst scenario.
On the other hand, month long trips to Dubai or Beirut -- this is just an exercise in the world's oldest profession! (Dubai and Beirut are just too expensive for the ordinary girl to afford a month's stay without some earning capacity.)
I advise you: scrutinize all foreign travel carefully. This can give you insights into the motivation behind the girl to seek out a foreign man!
*Generalizations, as the term implies, do not apply in every circumstance. Sakhalin, far from Moscow, has wealth derived from the petroleum industry and expatriates can be found their enjoying a high standard of living.
11-01-2004, 05:45 AM #10Junior Member
- Join Date
- Nov 2004
The reason is in the mentalities!
Ukrainian- russian girls are used to be economical, cause if they are happening to earn a little bit more then life minimum payments
in these soviet countries, sure they`ll spend it on helping their parents, who can not afford good enough medicines, buying a new furniture since the 1991..... Of course if a man wants to meet thr lady from Ukraine or Russia he must pay for her trip! And must suggest it first! Yes, lot of scammers and everything.... then buy her a ticket and make a foreign Passport for her personally! If she is a scammer- she`ll not agree for a ticket...
and the most important- ALL THE GIRLS NEED THE MONEY! Both good and bad girls, in every country!!!! So, A MAN shopuld behave the way, she`d LOVE HIM! if you are really WORTH of a LADY< and even if she pays attention on your money first/// help her to get free from her complexes, left from some poor periods of her life!!!!If she`ll love you- then she`ll not need your money!!!! If you want a girl to love you for your soul- first HAVE this soul.... in the deep its meaning. Win her love!!!!
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